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#1

MM will not be changing the 'new' cool levels system.

Archive: 104 posts

Someone asked in mm's blog when the system would be changed to accommodate older levels. This is what MarkS from media molecule said:


We like the new system, it gives everyone a fair chance and if you?ve been looking at all the cool stuff recently (getting on average 30k+ plays) you?d see that this way works. If you think your level deserves more plays then publish it again (not republish) and see what happens.

To anyone that is outraged or angered by this, I urge you to write them again. I, personally, will not be making any more levels because of this. It's just not worth it. I'm too old and cantankerous to fight with H4H levels and rocket cat mayhem.		2009-03-27 15:49:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Currently, I'm more annoyed at mandatory ratings and the censoring system than I am about the new Cool Levels.

I think the logic behind the change is sound, but because of how everything else in the game works (or more like doesn't) the system doesn't seem to work.

It does seem that if you time your release when most immature players are not around, you get better chances. It also helps to delete and publish the level new if it gets 1-starred in the first few plays.		2009-03-27 16:01:00

Author:
Gilgamesh
Posts: 2536

I'm actually also angry with that as well. That's another HUGE problem that this game has. I mean, I can't say "Happened". WTF?!

I agree with everything you've said, gilgamesh. I give up wrestling with their broken system though. It's time for me to move on to dragon quest V, or flower, or SOMETHING that doesn't incite such rage. 		2009-03-27 16:06:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I think there are things here that we're angry about and wishing were changed that aren't up to a system, but are up to the user base. And given the user base and the game structure, this is the best system.

The best way to get an older level more plays and hearts is to, like they said, publish it in a different slot, or make a new level, market it well through sites like LBPC, and then hope people love it and migrate into your level list and give the others a try.

I don't want them to change it. At this point, I think we should be focusing on the best ways to capitalize on the new system and get over the pitfalls that are bound to come with ANY other system they could possibly conceive.

Now, the mandatory ratings ARE a pain. That HAS to go. Just give us the option, otherwise make it a null vote. So it doesn't effect the score if the person doesn't want to vote for it. It's too messed up with mandatory ratings.		2009-03-27 16:57:00

Author:
superezekiel
Posts: 120

Personally, I think that categories and difficulty tagging would be better. Unfortunately, I am not willing to republish the Crystal Cave under this system and "hope for the best"... people, the userbase, will absolutely choose "Rocket Cheetah Fun" over "The Crystal Cave in Autumn" any time. Levels like Maxed out 2 rise to the top, because, to be quite honest, who the hell doesn't like awesome vehicle rides!? I know I do, and i hearted the heck out of it. I have watched wonderful levels fall by the wayside with this new system though. Heck, GruntosUK had to babysit his newest level to keep it from falling into oblivion.

My point being, yes, I agree that the manditory rating system should go, but I also think there needs to be a genre tagging system. And a difficulty rating that the creator can set, sort of like in DDR or Stepmania. If a level is easy, give it a one star, hard, 10 star. Not that hard to implement, I would imagine.

I tried starting over with my level, by the way. Three times. I don't have it in me to beg for plays and hearts. I did that already, and I'm tired of it.

I agree with gilgamesh because I do believe that, in theory, the system works. But then again, so does communism. In theory.		2009-03-27 17:07:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I sure like the system better than the previous.2009-03-27 17:09:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

The only thing that was really WRONG with the previous system was that the levels STAYED on cool levels. If they were given an expiration date, then that would have been fine. I am someone who was on page five for cool levels for months and months, and I still think that the old system was messed up. But this system is also fundamentally flawed in many ways.

7 days is simply not enough time to get your level noticed and played ,unless you a. cheat, or b. have no job and can sit and republish it every five minutes, or c. have 9,000 awesome vehicles in your level.

I talked to someone the other day who published their level and got 24 plays on it. by the time it finished it's 7 day cycle, it had 50 plays. It was a WONDERFUL level. This, to me, is the mark of a flawed system.

I can also tell you, from personal experience, that I ran a test on one of my levels. I got 8 plays and 5 hearts, and then it was gone.

If I am the crazy one, who thinks this system is wrong, then perhaps it's time for me to walk away from the game, and that is something that I am very much willing to do.		2009-03-27 17:14:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I think the system is also flawed, but admittedly better than what it was. I agree 7 days is not long enough and this should be increased.

I published the new level and within 30 minutes it had dissapeared from all seatch engines. I'm off work at the moment so basically had the time to sit and republish the level everytime it dissapeared from view, it took a day of doing this every hour or so for it to get the 300 plays and 30 hearts needed to stick on page 5.

MM are getting there with the system, but it still needs changes. People, like xkappax, are just going to give up on create mode after spending hours and hours creating and then watching it dissapear without a trace because the 500th Motorstorm level where you hold R1 to drive the same rally car is getting all the plays.

Media Molecule say on their blog the average level gets 30k+ plays on cool levels, all my combined levels don't have much more than 5k plays, and three of those have been on page 5 and below of cool levels. I don't want 30k plays to be honest, I want my level to be seen and played by people who will hopefully appreciate it, 200-300 plays is not worth 100 hours of work on a level, it just is'nt. You spent time creating something and want it to be enjoyed by the most people you can.

The community here generally play and appreciate what I create, and for that I'm extremely thankful, but the only way to increase your comments and plays beyond this is cool levels, and its very hard to get on there with the current system.		2009-03-27 17:50:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754

I just posted again on their blog about what I think could be done to help, using several suggestions from this thread. I don't know if they'd read it or not, but I want things to be better.2009-03-27 18:01:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I'd like to play the devil's advocate for a second.

MM don't want to be changing the system every other fortnight, that would just increase the likeliness that a bug would be created, and they've had enough of those to correct in the last few months.

They also understand that you can't make a system that will please everyone. In the end someone is bound to get left out, so they want to cater to the greater majority (and to what they can observe themselves).

On the other hand, MM have shown a willingness to listen to the community's concerns and work to make the system better. It's not perfect yet, and probably will never be, but they are willing to make it better. This will take time and a fair share of "trial and error".		2009-03-27 18:26:00

Author:
Gilgamesh
Posts: 2536

yeah the only way for levels to keep getting plays after there week in the sun is for them to make it on the highest rated pages or most hearted pages. The problem with this is there are a lot of great levels that are fun but challenging so they automaticly get lost becuase there doomed to end up three star levels due to the majority of players not having that great of skills and there frustration leeds them to rate poorly. Same problem here is a lot of these levels i am reffering to dont even get the week in the sun becuase of the they stall out the first day with 30-50 plays. THis was the case with my New Jumper: The Blue Zone level i had to delete and republish quite a few times before it got rolling and stuck on the cool levels page.2009-03-27 18:35:00

Author:
deboerdave
Posts: 384

I don't really follow you anymore XkappaX

I thought you understood and accepted the new cool page system. The new system IS better. It's been forever we know that older levels are pretty much "ditched". I don't know why this is news to you now or how you could hate the system more now.

This news doesn't make anything worse than it is since a month. Cool page system IS BETTER than it ever was. You can republish your levels a new and you know you can come over AND WE LAUNCH IT FOR YOU IN THE COOL PAGES.

What's the problem again? No seriously, what's with your older levels? If you care this much for them why don't you come over at the launch club and republish them? YOU WILL stick in the pages with this. Take it easy buddy. Just have fun.

.		2009-03-27 18:41:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Pontential Cool levels (not just cool levels but overall) system:

1. I like the current system to some degree, and think it would work if you deticated say a majority of the slots available to this system.

2. With in the current system levels shouldnt get shut out so fast sometimes only racking up 20-50 plays even when holding a sould rating and positive feedback tags.

3. There should be a percentaged reserved for older levels, that never made it for a cool levels spot for an entire week. These can be picked randomly with a wieght designated by some formula or previous plays, hearts and rating (thus all levels that hadnt been on cool levels for a week will have a chance to be back up there again, but supposely crap will have less chance from the weight), if it preforms well during its limited time it is granted a spot for the week, and after which is never eligble again.

4. Rating should be optional as tags are optional. and the defualt "X" button should skip past the rating. Thus you have to really want to rate it (ie. move click i want to rate then go to next page where star level is always left blank as not to just rate the same as it is or +1 or -1, so that you really have to think about what you are rating. This will eliminate some of the bias from previous players although you may still remember what it was rated from going in.)

5. When publishing maybe have like three levels of difficulty to choose from. this would basically give the auther a chance to weed out people that dont like difficult level, or people that dont like easy levels. To go along with this there would just be a second menu after you hit community that ask difficulty you want: beginner, intermediate, expert, thus opening up to three sets of cool pages. Also could lead to three sets of highest rated, and all the other defualt search options.		2009-03-27 18:53:00

Author:
deboerdave
Posts: 384

Ranger, I don't want to launch my levels. That statement alone about "launching" a level solidifies exactly what is wrong with the system. We shouldn't HAVE to launch our levels. Sure, it's great that we've got a few members of the community willing to help with me this, but what about the poor individuals who don't know how to do this? I feel as if I am cheating my way onto cool levels if I take this route.

I played this AWESOME honeybee level that has like 30 plays. It was AMAZING. This person was never on cool levels, and that level is now gone. That makes me incredibly sad! I wish everyone could realize how much I care about the community. It makes me so so so incredibly upset that hard work is being lost!

and deboerdave, I agree with much of what you've said. I posted something to this extent at media molecule's blog. That seems to be one of the only places they read comments at. Perhaps, if you feel that way too, maybe you should post it over there. They seem to listen.

Sorry. I only want things to get better, everyone.		2009-03-27 19:12:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. At this point, my personal preference is that cool levels be left alone, but that more development be put into a library system where you can find categorized games so that long term there is a way for appropriate people to find the appropriate levels they like to play.

Cool levels is good for a short-term boost of a bunch of plays, but people spending a lot of time developing content only to be played for 1 week is kind of a let-down.

It would be kind of like spending a month developing a website, only for google to tell you "ok, we're going to let people see it for a month and then we're going to give other web pages a chance"		2009-03-27 19:31:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

It would be kind of like spending a month developing a website, only for google to tell you "ok, we're going to let people see it for a month and then we're going to give other web pages a chance"

This just made me absolutely laugh out loud for some reason. But yes, that's a perfect analogy. lol.		2009-03-27 19:39:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

It's better than it used to be. Rather it was two weeks though.2009-03-27 20:15:00

Author:
Jaeyden
Posts: 564

It's better than it used to be. Rather it was two weeks though.

I agree COMPLETELY with the two weeks thing.		2009-03-27 20:17:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Ranger, I don't want to launch my levels. That statement alone about "launching" a level solidifies exactly what is wrong with the system. We shouldn't HAVE to launch our levels. Sure, it's great that we've got a few members of the community willing to help with me this, but what about the poor individuals who don't know how to do this? I feel as if I am cheating my way onto cool levels if I take this route.

I played this AWESOME honeybee level that has like 30 plays. It was AMAZING. This person was never on cool levels, and that level is now gone. That makes me incredibly sad! I wish everyone could realize how much I care about the community. It makes me so so so incredibly upset that hard work is being lost!


Don't get me wrong, I know we shouldn't have to do those things in order for our work to be recognised properly but you had to work EVEN MORE in the past? I'm just trying to help you focus where there's a positive. I know you care alot about the community. I DO TOO. But at some point, i'm not the father and mother of everybody and what happens to people or a game will not take over my personal enjoyment or will not prevent me to be positive WHEN THERE IS positive stuff happening.

Work with what we have, stop craving for what we don't have. You can spend AN ENTIRE LIFE doing that and not just in LBP. I could talk with you for HOURS about how this game should have been design and I could explain to you why and how to do it almost down to the coding!! But why lose this energy in negativity? I voice my discontent of course but after that I won't fight something I don't have control on forever.

If we look at things only by facts, right now it's EASIER THAN EVER to get recognition. Isn't it a positive? Aren't you supposed to be eager to create more than ever? This game will NEVER be fixed. It needs a fundamental redesign.

.		2009-03-27 20:25:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

There is positive stuff, and mm does listen. That's why I really don't want to give up. The system is close, but it's not there yet. can we at least agree on that?2009-03-27 20:36:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I give up on trying to figure out cool levels. On one hand I do like the cycling of the new system. It has exposed me to alot more levels. On the other it still is unfair to alot of people. Here's the thing kappa, you are a great creator, just make levels the same way you do art. At this point it's impossible to please everyone. There's over 600,000 levels right now. I've played amazing levels with 30 plays and crap levels like ramp that has 2 million. It's like YouTube, why do stupid videos like shoes get 10 million views and good quality stuff get 100? Somebody will get burned in the long run.

Also you have a level on mm hearted list. That's a big accomplishment and speaks volumes about your creator talents. Hell of a waste if you stop making levels.		2009-03-27 20:38:00

Author:
tyboogie
Posts: 96

I have to stop making levels because it is going to lead to the ultimate divorce of me and larry (that's not a joke) ... we fight like CRAZY when we create together... he actually said that the crystal cave was the last thing he'd ever help me with. Sure, I could do a level by myself, but he and I work quite well as a team when we're not throwing controllers at one another.

And I'm not worried about my levels so much as other levels. It hurts me so much when a good level goes unplayed. I don't know why, cause it's not my level, but it does. That's probably dumb of me to be that way, but man, I love when someone who's worked hard on something gets recognition for it.

the truth of the matter is that i love PLAYING the game, but everytime I go on cool levels, I am reminded of the fact that there's just some garbage on there. And that the new "distress in the ocean" may be sitting in limbo with 2 plays. That drives me nuts, and I don't know why!!!

and I agree with the youtube analogy. I'm really not a fan of "shoes" at all. I watched the video and then looked at my friend who showed it to me and said "that was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my entire life"		2009-03-27 20:47:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

**** Kappax. Common, don't you see LBP is taken way too seriously in your reality? That's kind of a point I was making earlier. Don't mess up with your couple OVER A GAME. please, don't.

If creation brings you more negative than positive, please stop creating.
Also, it's been forever that we agree the game is flawed. I never wanted to defend the game.

.		2009-03-27 20:58:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

They just need a better system to highlight accomplished Authors IMO. If you make good levels you deserve to be recognized. The community as a whole does the best job they can with the system they've got to rate a level. When I play 4 star levels, I always check to find more by author but I'm the minority too. Most people don't go looking at your other stuff, they just move on.2009-03-27 21:01:00

Author:
Jaeyden
Posts: 564

Quite true, Jaeyden.

And ranger, didn't you know, LBP is serious business.
Larry and I worked on an RPG together before I got into LBP, and we were ready to rip each other's faces off while we were doing that too... lol.

I just wanted to make a point about WHY i am not creating anymore. It has more to do with the fights and the fact that it's not as enjoyable as it once was to me than it is about cool levels. I want to take the game less seriously, so that was the first step in that.

I also check out other people's levels if I think a level is good. That is how I found kiminski's work, and I have to say, what a fantastic creator! That's actually how I found out about your work, too, Jaeyden. I played abyss because I randomly saw it on a friend's hearted page, and then I immediately went and played a bunch of your other levels right after that. ^_^

I think the keys that you've put at the end of your levels work, Jaeyden. I tried that in the crystal cave, and I have seen people go from the crystal cave immediately to The Fall of Winter, it seems to me it's definitely because of the key I've placed!

Eh, the truth is, and I"ve said this countless times, I LOVE to play user levels. I have this big group of people that I play online with. That is what makes the game fun for me, and that's what I'm gonna continue to do.

although, mark my words, as soon as yarg is released, I'm going to go have a freakin' field day with the global climate tool. 		2009-03-27 21:10:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

And ranger, didn't you know, LBP is serious business.
Larry and I worked on an RPG together before I got into LBP, and we were ready to rip each other's faces off while we were doing that too... lol.


hmmm ok. I took your post very seriously you know. But now I see that it's not a big deal.

.		2009-03-27 21:14:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

yeah, sorry. I .... try to inject humor into the things I write. I wasn't kidding about the fights, they were REALLY bad, but we'd never divorce over it. The compromise was that we don't work on levels together anymore. And I'm okay with that.

I did want to do one more level, for my friends, just to hang out in... but I don't know if I'll do that yet or not. If I do end up making it... it'll be a short level that's just for fun! I like those better anyway!		2009-03-27 21:17:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

They just need a better system to highlight accomplished Authors IMO. If you make good levels you deserve to be recognized. The community as a whole does the best job they can with the system they've got to rate a level. When I play 4 star levels, I always check to find more by author but I'm the minority too. Most people don't go looking at your other stuff, they just move on.

That would make it much harder for new level creators to be part of 'it', defeating the purpose of the game, since every creator should be able to show something off. A 'canon' of distinguished creators is ok as an informal sort of thing where creators can find inspiration or learn something, but a canon as part of game (like positive discrimination of 'distinguished users&apos doesn't seem right to me. I also think it's important to see that it's not the general public, the players that object to the system. It's mainly those who take level creating seriously but don't find anyone who wants to share this with them. Thats a sad thing perhaps, but it's still just a game right? The only think that makes me sad personally, is that 'real life' often works the same way. Oh well...

But I would like MM to introduce genre-tags like xkappax suggested. All these niche-levels like story-driven levels sinking like stones in the sea of rocketcarts does seem to be something that can be remedied to a fashion.		2009-03-27 21:21:00

Author:
Wonko the Sane
Posts: 109

I disagree. You can easily devise a system that makes it fair to both the new creator and the veteran. Whats wrong with giving people more choices when searching for interesting levels. I heart authors..but rarely do I go back to my hearted author pages. Its 13 pages deep. I find great authors with lots of levels all the time by using 'find more', but that's because I take the initiative. Giving more recognition to authors that have multiple levels with high ratings does nothing to alienate the new creator. Look at the traffic on all the other search criteria and I hardly think that an author system would do anything but give more exposure to good levels. New creators have the exact same chance as veterans when it comes to the "cool pages" and that's where the majority of plays is going to come from anyway. Besides..and no offense to ANYONE, but 90% of the time my favorite new levels come from people that have been making levels for sometime now and I usually end up liking most of their old stuff too.2009-03-27 22:50:00

Author:
Jaeyden
Posts: 564

It might be as easy as moving the "highest rated" area out of the "search" section, because quite honestly, the average player isn't going to think to look there. I CONSTANTLY forget about "highest rated" or "busiest" because it's not really in an intuitive place.2009-03-27 22:57:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

It might be as easy as moving the "highest rated" area out of the "search" section, because quite honestly, the average player isn't going to think to look there. I CONSTANTLY forget about "highest rated" or "busiest" because it's not really in an intuitive place.

You mean "highest rated" and "most hearted" is completely useless now since it just those old levels that were forever pinned on the old Cool Pages and since they never will be beaten in sheer number of plays and heart, they will stay there FOREVER rendering those search mode useless. Completely useless.

.		2009-03-27 23:31:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I disagree. You can easily devise a system that makes it fair to both the new creator and the veteran. Whats wrong with giving people more choices when searching for interesting levels. I heart authors..but rarely do I go back to my hearted author pages. Its 13 pages deep. I find great authors with lots of levels all the time by using 'find more', but that's because I take the initiative. Giving more recognition to authors that have multiple levels with high ratings does nothing to alienate the new creator. Look at the traffic on all the other search criteria and I hardly think that an author system would do anything but give more exposure to good levels. New creators have the exact same chance as veterans when it comes to the "cool pages" and that's where the majority of plays is going to come from anyway. Besides..and no offense to ANYONE, but 90% of the time my favorite new levels come from people that have been making levels for sometime now and I usually end up liking most of their old stuff too.
I totally agree that a system could be developed that is fair.

How about leave cool levels alone and add a system where you pick a genre/difficulty and a list of levels pops up that are randomized - but the higher the rating the more likely the level is to appear? This way you could throw a level out there, and there would be chances it would be played indefinately. And if people like it, it would appear more often?

This, combined with only allowing people who finish a level to rate it, would be incredibly fair.

(and I TOTALLY agree with the fact that REALLY good authors are in the minority. But then again, MM can't show favoritism or the majority cries foul)


You mean "highest rated" and "most hearted" is completely useless now since it just those old levels that were forever pinned on the old Cool Pages and since they never will be beaten in sheer number of plays and heart, they will stay there FOREVER rendering those search mode useless. Completely useless.

Highest rated is a good thing - BUT, once again, when you have this many levels some randomness would help mix it up a little and allow ALL of them to get attention.		2009-03-27 23:34:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

How about the searching by tags system? Right now, it seems to search for the highest-rated level that has been tagged by that tag once or more. It should search for the level that has been tagged as that tag the most. Go try all the different tag searches right now, I can guarantee most of the levels will be the same.2009-03-27 23:37:00

Author:
cornontheCOD
Posts: 150

How about the searching by tags system? Right now, it seems to search for the highest-rated level that has been tagged by that tag once or more. It should search for the level that has been tagged as that tag the most. Go try all the different tag searches right now, I can guarantee most of the levels will be the same.
Yeah, the tag system is so broken right now it's almost useless.		2009-03-27 23:39:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I'm in favour of the cool levels system. It gives great levels a chance to get known on a weekly basis. My level was up there for about 5 minutes before it hit its seven day mark but that doesn't bother me. Whenever I go onto LBP now I have a fresh set of levels to play.

I think the highest rated page should be mixed up every month, and every level with some form of the word prize in it should be knocked off the list.		2009-03-28 00:07:00

Author:
Killian
Posts: 2575

Exactly. I'm not trying to point fingers or criticize Mm for the way the system has worked and is now working but we ARE real people, spending unreal amounts of time trying our hardest to make exceptional content, and it's that content that keeps this game going and will continue to keep it going. I've seen a lot of GREAT creators give up in that time and I suspect we'll see many more. Highest rated and most hearted are now basically broken like RangerX said, and the tags system is pretty much useless as a search tool. Play, create, share has never worked. Is it that much to ask that seasoned creators get some recognition?2009-03-28 00:20:00

Author:
Jaeyden
Posts: 564

I think "The Abyss" should be a sticky level. XD.

Seriously, I was amazed at how easily I got a level up on cool pages. I was posting Splat II on weekday nights so kiddies would stay away from it... and ended up on page 2!

At the same time, Thegide had all 3 of his levels up there at the same time! So definately not complaining about cool levels.

But the more great content there is, the more necessary it is to have a proper library system in place.		2009-03-28 00:34:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

The tag system is broken, and I totally agree with you Cubbage that you should only be allowed to actually tag and rate a level if you actually finished it. It would stop people playing, quiting out or dying and then leaving rubbish tags and 1* only because they could'nt do a section or solve a puzzle, which I believe most of these low ratings come from. Someone is bound to tag a level fustrating if they can't complete it!

The system is infinetly better than what it was, it justs needs more work. Randomizing highest rated and search by tag is also a great idea.		2009-03-28 01:05:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754

There are a few things MM NEEDS to do:

Cool levels should be changed, so rather than a time limit, you get 2000 plays, or 1 month, whichever is longer. Cool levels should be randomized. That is, once you get on it, your are not on page 1 or 7, but the page no. is randomised.

Suggest levels off the creators hearted list.

Set a level genre, difficulty and set one of the 3 tags.

Multiple plays by one person only count as one.

Ratings should be separate, ie you are never offered at the end of the level, you must separately go into it. Same for tags.

MM should ban levels with "heart" "ramp" "h4h" "trophy" etc, and should make H4H a bannable offence.		2009-03-28 01:28:00

Author:
dkjestrup
Posts: 672

I agree with many of these, however statistically there are a few that would cause an issue.


Ratings should be separate, ie you are never offered at the end of the level, you must separately go into it. Same for tags.

Unfortunately, if you don't ask them to rate the level when they've finished it, you aren't going to get it. However, Netflix had found that you get a better quality rating if you don't automatically default it. Also, Netflix does not ask for a rating until you've returned it (similar to finishing a level...). Right now, the Netflix one works properly.


That is, once you get on it, your are not on page 1 or 7, but the page no. is randomised.

I agree with this on highest rated since it prevents the front ones from ALWAYS staying there, but with cool pages the push to the top seems to work nicely - especially since if you watch it lately people are not publishing quality levels enough even to FILL the pages - so you can climb pretty quick. However, there is no workable system in place for long-term steady plays - which is in the long run the goal for most people putting out quality levels.		2009-03-28 01:52:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

However, there is no workable system in place for long-term steady plays - which is in the long run the goal for most people putting out quality levels.

This is exactly what we need. Imo search works perfect, because you can author search. But people need to be split into categorys, difficulties etc. That much is obvious. There should be a Hall of fame for great levels too.		2009-03-28 02:18:00

Author:
dkjestrup
Posts: 672

I think what will come at some point is a "favourit authors" page, a hand picked by molecule "great levels" page, categorized after genre etc.

To be honest I never really use the "Cool Levels" Page. I pick my levels from the forums, from the review leagues and the spotlights of LBPCentral and as long as we stick together as a community and promote good work, it will get noticed and overtime Mm might get to us and say "Hey, how about making this kind of promotion and quality level finding part of the game".		2009-03-28 11:20:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

I just want to let you guys know that I wrote an email to media molecule with a bunch of the suggestions in this thread. Who knows if it will fall on deaf ears or not, but i'm optimistic. 2009-03-29 02:06:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Okay, i see where you guys are coming from, but i have something i want to say...

Media molecule may or may not care about if your level gets 15,000 plays and 1000 hearts. i am not a representative, so i cannot say yay or nay. but in all actuality, does the 10,000 plays with 1,000 hearts feel as satisfying as 10 or 15 people popping on here and telling you your level is amazing, and asking how you did this or that?

Anonymous folks playing and hearting really aren't where it's at. if you can get 20 folks to give you really good feedback here on your levels, then you know you've done well, and that everyone in the community really appreciates your work.

I think, as a forum, we should make "timezone groups" for playing and cameraderie with folks who happen to be within 3 hours of our timezones. Or at least come up with a way to show each other our latest and greatest during a LBP tournament/marathon where we make a cycle of each in our group's newest levels, or works in progress to give real-time feedback on each other's works.

I see us writing down how much "work" we put into a level, but if you don't enjoy building them, then you should stick to playing them. I build because it is entertaining, and i love figuring out how to overcome challenges. The feedback encourages and inspires me to try newer and more challenging things. tyhe most plays any of my levels have ever gotten is 200-ish, and the hearts/ratings left behind are just the icing in the cake.

I think instead of attacking media molecule or getting frustrated, we should really look into why we play, and if you only do it for the hearts and ratings, then perhaps you ought to look for a new reason to play.		2009-03-29 11:04:00

Author:
TJapan
Posts: 225

I think there is definately a bit of ego involved here. People do things for different reasons. For a lot of creators, part of the fun is having people enoying their work. Just like if you write a book you'd like to think people are reading and enjoying it.

The truth is, I'm personally not that interested in a TON of people playing my games. I was perfectly happy with my 400 plays I had on Splat Invaders Saga. At this point with my rating, hearts, and happy players I'm feeling TOTALLY fulfilled.

But for LittleBigPlanet to stay popular, it needs a constant influx of great new content. Without this content, it's really a run-of-the-mill game. However, making great content requires a lot of time that creators are simply not going to spend if people don't play their game.

Also, a lot of creators are not going to be innovative and create new play styles if players are able to rate poorly without giving the game a chance.

I TOTALLY agree with you and am in the frame of mind - I really build levels so people here can enjoy them. I don't really care that much of 10,000 screaming kids enjoy it.

However, my personal motivation is to hopefully help MM to sort some of these things out so the creators can enjoy feeling like a) a large amount of people play their levels and b) they are the appropriate people so they ENJOY them.

I can see many of the authors that I love getting frustrated because LBP simply doesn't have a well-developed library system and fair rating system in place. I don't want to see authors such as OCK, Takelow, NinjaMicWZ, and Snowspot (JonMartin) get frustrated and stop creating because it's difficult to find a place for their unique styles in LittleBigPlanet.

The more of us that bring up these issues, the more MM will listen and gather info, and therefore the more popular LBP will be.		2009-03-29 18:15:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Well said, CCubbage. I also agree that creating shouldn't simply be about plays and hearts, but when people pour time and effort into something to generally get it unnoticed, it seriously seems like a waste of time.2009-03-29 18:24:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I want to be honest.

Reading kappa's post here - including the notion that she does not want to create levels anymore - depressed the hell out of me. It would make me very sad, if this happens and this would be but a nail in the coffin of LBP as a successful game that keeps on getting better and interesting overtime. I was ... and I still am ... hoping that LBP is not one of those games, that you play, love and throw away after 2 months and never take a look at it again and then 1,5 years later the sequel arrives and makes the last title obsolete.

I have a dream that LBP will strive for another year, with new content, new players that start the game the first time only to realize that there is a ton of content out there already made, approved, high-rated and polished to the extreme. I want Mm to release a "Community Pack" that is basicaly nothing more but a collection of very great levels from the community bundled by Mm to get noticed, like it sometimes happens in other communities where CommunityMapPacks get released.

I have a dream of LBP being my second home and not live in fear that my half-finished level will never see the light of day because the only the hardcore fans are still playing LBP.

I have a dream that my four little levels will one day live in a network where they will not be judged by the color of the rocket car but by the content of their leveldesign.

I have a dream today!		2009-03-30 07:11:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

Amen brother!2009-03-30 15:02:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Well said, Fjonan. I have a similar dream, and that's why I'm still here. I'm an optimist, and I've been holding on to hope this long. I remember back in november or december when they fixed cool levels for the first time. Seeing Centralia pop onto page 3 was one of the most rewarding things I've ever witnessed. My point being, things were bleak in the beginning for creators, and they got better for a while. I almost feel that if we wade our way through these dark times, the people who really stuck with it would be rewarded. Let's hope I'm right. ^_^2009-03-30 17:38:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

This game is so good and the potential is so flabergastingly amazing that honestly, never before I did overcome so many flaws in a game and still been playing it after 2 months.

If it wasn't LBP, I would have throw this piece of **** design community outta the window. Right now LBP is so good I can't believe how many flaws i'm overlooking and STILL HAVING SOME UNBELIEVABLE amount of fun.

I hope they will still take care of the game until the end of 2009 at least.

.		2009-03-30 17:44:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

My husband is one of the people that couldn't overcome a lot of the flaws. When his second level got extremely messed up back in november, he just started playing fallout 3. I don't usually have this sort of patience... but truth told, I really didn't have anything else to play at the time. ^_^ I agree that there are parts that are quite fun to me still. I love playing online with people. I love playing levels that are called Unnamed Level . I love all the people I've met. That's what makes me overlook all the problems with the game.2009-03-30 17:51:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

My husband is one of the people that couldn't overcome a lot of the flaws. When his second level got extremely messed up back in november, he just started playing fallout 3. I don't usually have this sort of patience... but truth told, I really didn't have anything else to play at the time. ^_^ I agree that there are parts that are quite fun to me still. I love playing online with people. I love playing levels that are called Unnamed Level . I love all the people I've met. That's what makes me overlook all the problems with the game.

Me it's creating levels that keeps me there. I only designed 3 levels in 6 months though. I guess i'm kinda slow lol
I know I take my time and think alot when I create levels thought. At least they end up super polished. When i'm not inspired of only have like half an hour of gaming before me i'm always trying user levels. There's such an insane amount of great levels out there that I can only play a fraction of them. It's amazing. I'm never tired of playing them.

.		2009-03-30 17:56:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

This system is either REALLY messed up or phenomenal.

My major levels (all 2 of them) are sitting on 100 plays, 10 hearts and 150 plays, 15 hearts.
They were released BEFORE the new system.

I released a level that shows a bug AFTER the system, which was released a few days before the changeover, and it was sitting on like 1 heart and 15 plays.

I just checked for the first time in a while today and my main levels have gained about 10 plays together and the glitch level has 22 hearts and 500 plays!?!?!?

I don't know whether to be annoyed or extremely grateful, but personally, i don't feel that level was "heart" material at all xD
I choose to be greatful, as this got me my 50 hearts needed, so now I only need another 10 odd player hearts

I <3 THE NEW SYSTEM		2009-03-31 18:00:00

Author:
Pinchanzee
Posts: 805

I have to say, that I've been extremely bummed about the shafting that pre-updated-system levels are getting. I hit a great number of plays for The Movies (around 13,000), as it was getting coverage on IGN and even Mm's site, on top of all my incessant shouting of it into the ether. It had gotten legs. It hit a stride. It was getting regular plays. Then they changed the Cool Levels system, and The Movies FROZE.

I mean FROZE. No more plays. Weeks and weeks went by. I was lucky if I got 5 plays.

And now, Mm tells us, "hey, if you don't like it, re-publish from scratch."

But then all of my comments, all of my plays and hearts and ratings would be gone... I mean, what should I do, lock it, and then publish the new one? Judging from what others have experimented with, it may not even work. I mean, maybe I will try it, but I'm not going to babysit it - I put in all my legwork on my levels, I don't want to have to babysit it every day just to give it some legs again.

And this whole "LittleBigIlluminati" thing that Ranger was bringing up is a bit shifty. I mean, how can you sing a system's praises if you yourself have discovered a way to exploit it? If you can guarantee any level a spot on cool levels by doing a bit of behind-the-scenes chicanery with some secret society, aren't you singing the wrong praises? Isn't the more honest praise "Hallelujah, we can control this system to our own ends if so desired! Thanks for the hand, Mm!"

Honestly, I think a browsing system is a must. This genre/category idea is the way forward. The fact is, nowhere is my level ANYWHERE. It doesn't EXIST. It's below the floorboards, between dirt and oblivion. The only way to find it is to basically search "Teebonesy". And the only reason you'd do that, is if you already KNEW about the level and explicitly wanted to play it. Hence: Nobody is playing it.

Has there been a thread to devise a community-supported list of categories? I'd love to brainstorm these with people here. I'm going to go search for such a thread, and if there isn't one, I'll create one. If we can make a good one that everyone agrees on, we should send it to Mm.

NOTE: I have created the topic under "Suggestions". Please add to the discussion (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=10081)!		2009-03-31 21:15:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

And this whole "LittleBigIlluminati" thing that Ranger was bringing up is a bit shifty. I mean, how can you sing a system's praises if you yourself have discovered a way to exploit it? If you can guarantee any level a spot on cool levels by doing a bit of behind-the-scenes chicanery with some secret society, aren't you singing the wrong praises? Isn't the more honest praise "Hallelujah, we can control this system to our own ends if so desired! Thanks for the hand, Mm!"


I think you take this too seriously. With the new system, instead of 3 guys having 10 000 plays with MILLIONS of people having around 20, there will never be a level in the 5 digits ever again but more people will have a chance at having more than 20 plays. No matter how you spin it, it's better now than ever in matter of fairness. Just goes to show how the design of the game is flawed so much that this new system is a god sent.

The problem with the game is that the community side would need to be re-designed COMPLETELY to really work good. You then have 2 choice, either you care about your plays or you don't.
Personally I don't see how using a workaround to get recognition in the cool pages would be bad if you actually care about such recognition. Also, if you don't care about recognition, why care about the new system and the possible workaround that people are using?

The game doesn't promote your levels. You need to pimp them on the net, make so people play it, etc. You are the complete marketer of your work. I don't like it. I don't think the game should be made otherwise and that we shouldn't have to do it. But right now that's how the game is. It's either I decided to hate the game or have fun.

.		2009-03-31 22:42:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Yeah, I gotta agree with RangerZero here. The "secret society" is really a "support group" to allow a level to get a fair shake. The only reason it happens is because the system makes it difficult to get people to play your level without it. I know the original Splat II had 3 stars because I originally published it at the wrong time, and it just stuck.... the exact same level ends up being 4 stars by publishing at night. Since most kids just keep the previous rating OR rate poorly because a level was too hard, and people go into a 3 star level with a bad taste in their mouth - even a fantastic level ends up with a 2-3 star rating..... to me, that's not fair considering an author may have spent 50-60 hours working on a level.2009-04-01 00:20:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

The game doesn't promote your levels. You need to pimp them on the net, make so people play it, etc. You are the complete marketer of your work. I don't like it. I don't think the game should be made otherwise and that we shouldn't have to do it. But right now that's how the game is. It's either I decided to hate the game or have fun.

I agree with you there - And we should also all admit here that it's really no wonder this thing is a such a cluster**** - After all, Mm is doing something that no game before has really done. There have been games going back to Excitebike that have a level-building function, but this kind of thing, this online community-based game-creator is really a trailblazing experience. Mm is trying something new, something nobody's done before. It's clear now in hindsight, to them, to everyone, that the system behind the community feature is broken.

It had to happen. It had to be broken. I just can't imagine a first-crack at this being successful. It's the only way to learn and improve.

The scary thing is that, I wonder now if it will EVER be fair-to-everyone. Essentially what we have is a series of "fixes" stacked on top of a screwy system, one on the other on the other. I honestly think this would have to be re-created, from scratch, brand new, in order to be fair and work properly.
Meaning, at least in my mind, the next time we get a real shot at having a fair, fixed system, is the eventual release of LBP 2.

Until then, I suppose it's more pimping, more whoring, more support groups, and probably more than a little exploitation.		2009-04-01 00:25:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

I don't know.... they really aren't THAT far off. In fact, if they left the cool levels along and just separately did a library system (genre's/difficulty) people would probably start using that system because it would allow them to find the types of games they like to play.

Not allowing people to rate unless they can finish is a minor change that has bigger ramifications that need to be sorted out.

We're really talking about something that could be sorted out in a matter of weeks if they sat down and put their minds to it (without the actually programming time, that is...)		2009-04-01 00:30:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

The scary thing is that, I wonder now if it will EVER be fair-to-everyone. Essentially what we have is a series of "fixes" stacked on top of a screwy system, one on the other on the other. I honestly think this would have to be re-created, from scratch, brand new, in order to be fair and work properly.
Meaning, at least in my mind, the next time we get a real shot at having a fair, fixed system, is the eventual release of LBP 2.

Until then, I suppose it's more pimping, more whoring, more support groups, and probably more than a little exploitation.

Right now it's as fair as it ever been. While it ditches the old level, at least everybody is on the same ground for what's to come.
It will never be fixed anyways since the game is fundamentally broken. That's why I call at being positive. Composing with what we have and find fun any way we can.

.		2009-04-01 02:55:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Aaah... So there's the rub!

This picture, I think you'll find, represents your viewpoint:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/teebonesy/glass_half_full-1.jpg

Whereas, this following image is much closer to my own perspective:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/teebonesy/glass_half_full-1.jpg		2009-04-01 04:18:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

Aaah... So there's the rub!

This picture, I think you'll find, represents your viewpoint:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/teebonesy/glass_half_full-1.jpg

Whereas, this following image is much closer to my own perspective:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/teebonesy/glass_half_full-1.jpg
I don't get it.... is the water in the bottom glass slightly darker?		2009-04-01 04:44:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Aaah... So there's the rub!



Since we are on the same page then...
I hope you can see this glass as "half full" (positive) instead of "half empty".

.		2009-04-01 05:09:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I took a look at the cool levels page yesterday and .. well .. I don't get it. Doesn't have Mm some people watching this thing? There are really stupid levels with like 650.000 plays, other good levels just floating in between. This is far from "cool" since 2/3 of the levels are by the name alone in the trophy/h4h/rocket car section or tutorials for costumes. What the hell has this to do with "cool levels"?

My point of view is represented by the upper glass by the way.		2009-04-01 07:14:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

Yes, I think we all agree:

There is no way to get consistant plays on your level. That is the problem.

What can we do about it:

-cannot rate until finished
- 1 week of cool levels upped to 2 months or 5000 plays, whichever is longer

Have genres, each with a randomised level selection, with the option of filters like *difficulty 4+ stars* or *levels I haven't played* etc.

Thus, if you like puzzle levels, you can enter the puzzle genre of levels, and filter out all levels with H4H in the title, all the levels you have finished, and all the levels with less than 3 stars, 50 hearts, etc.

Then you get a randomised list of levels that fit the criterea, with a refresh button to replace the levels with more random ones.

So your epic 130 hour+ level that is perfect and burried at the bottom of the pile can be seen by people, played, on a regular basis. Then they could have a levels of the week column, where 100 levels selected by MM that are in a genre have exposure for one week. They are only aligebile again in 2 months.

What I said above could work, although it would likely be needed to be rebuilt from near scratch.

The only (semi) working part of the share system, is that the hearting system works well for finding good levels, simply find a good creator, look through their hearted until you like a level, play their levels, their hearted page etc. That is the ONLY real way, aside from forums, of discovering good levels.


I took a look at the cool levels page yesterday and .. well .. I don't get it. Doesn't have Mm some people watching this thing? There are really stupid levels with like 650.000 plays, other good levels just floating in between. This is far from "cool" since 2/3 of the levels are by the name alone in the trophy/h4h/rocket car section or tutorials for costumes. What the hell has this to do with "cool levels"?

My point of view is represented by the upper glass by the way.

Agreed.

Also, I always say half empty, if you are drinking the glass, as it is getting emptier. It is only half full if it is getting fuller. lol 		2009-04-01 07:14:00

Author:
dkjestrup
Posts: 672

Also, I always say half empty, if you are drinking the glass, as it is getting emptier. It is only half full if it is getting fuller. lol

Every time I drink from my glass it suddenly and mysteriously refills itself back to the halfway point.

**** thing won't... DRINK IT!! NO!!! ...Pour it out... NO!! Stop it! I am thirsty though... no! NOT THAT THIRSTY!! aawww **** it!		2009-04-01 09:22:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

Every time I drink from my glass it suddenly and mysteriously refills itself back to the halfway point.

**** thing won't... DRINK IT!! NO!!! ...Pour it out... NO!! Stop it! I am thirsty though... no! NOT THAT THIRSTY!! aawww **** it!
That's how you know it's a good game. Just like a good woman - might be irritating, but you just can't get enough.

I'M KIDDING! Man, I hope my wife never sees this.		2009-04-01 13:13:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Speaking as a woman, CCubbage, I AM INSULTED! NOW WE MUST DO BATTLE!2009-04-01 13:53:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Oh geez..... I've done it this time.... tell me - are you LittleBigInsulted or ACTUAL insulted?2009-04-01 14:43:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Splat VS. Crystal Cave......BRING IT ON!2009-04-01 14:46:00

Author:
wexfordian
Posts: 1904

I'd rather go up against "What's the Matter". More of a fair fight.... Crystal Cave has a cart ride.2009-04-01 14:55:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I'm more "April Fools" insulted, I think. 2009-04-01 15:18:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

you just can't get enough...I'M KIDDING! Man, I hope my wife never sees this.

lol especially the bolded part.

.		2009-04-01 16:12:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I once asked a guy if he was a "Glass is half empty" or "Glass is half full" person. Being the analytical nerd he is, he replied, "No... I'm more of a 'Glass is twice as large as it needs to be' person". 2009-04-01 17:21:00

Author:
v0rtex
Posts: 1878

I once asked a guy if he was a "Glass is half empty" or "Glass is half full" person. Being the analytical nerd he is, he replied, "No... I'm more of a 'Glass is twice as large as it needs to be' person".

That reminds me of a joke my math teacher once said. He once asked another mathematician if he would like coffee or tea. The other person's response was "yes".

(Hint : if you don't know about AND, OR and XOR operators, you won't get it )

Speaking of which, isn't this thread starting to get way off topic? 		2009-04-01 17:50:00

Author:
Gilgamesh
Posts: 2536

Off-topic perhaps but all the more entertaining for it! 2009-04-01 17:59:00

Author:
tameturtle
Posts: 150

We like the new system, it gives everyone a fair chance and if you?ve been looking at all the cool stuff recently (getting on average 30k+ plays) you?d see that this way works. If you think your level deserves more plays then publish it again (not republish) and see what happens.This is bull****z! Where's the logic in this whole system anyway? "Fair chance", pff! What fair chance is there when all or most of the levels have surpassed over thirty thousand plays? Utter rubbish. I'm not publishing my levels again for nobody...2009-04-01 19:31:00

Author:
KoRnDawwg
Posts: 1424

This is bull****z! Where's the logic in this whole system anyway? "Fair chance", pff! What fair chance is there when all or most of the levels have surpassed over thirty thousand plays? Utter rubbish. I'm not publishing my levels again for nobody...

Guy, it's extremely easy to understand. The Cool pages are "fairer than ever" that's all you need to know.
Before the new system you'd see 20 level out of millions make it to the first page and rake in stupid amount of exposure for MONTHS. In that system, your new level is ignored basically.

In the new system, things refreshes alot faster and all new levels you would make now are in the pool for making the cool pages. Nobody will have stupid long exposure at the detriment of millions other people and in that new system, your new level basically is NOT ignored.

So what do you prefer? "Old *** totally unfair system" or the "less worse new one"? I think the answer is easy.

.		2009-04-01 21:04:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I don't get it.... is the water in the bottom glass slightly darker?

Haha...
Made me lol ^_^

This page is just full of people having tantrums about their old levels... Yay.
This feature is great for new publications, so if you're getting all down in the dumbs about not getting all the attention anymore, stop being selfish just for a second so that everybody can share a bit of the glory..?		2009-04-01 21:10:00

Author:
Pinchanzee
Posts: 805

I guess maybe you'd understand had you spent a month making a level that got published exactly a week before the cool levels change happened. I promoted heavily for that week and got a bunch of plays and hearts, and then mm asked us all to pretty much start from scratch. I tried to start over from scratch 3 times and failed miserably.

Oh well. Too bad, so sad. I'll think twice about spending that sort of time on a level again, but I've moved on.		2009-04-01 21:24:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I had a level with about 30-40 hours work in it that fell burden to it actually, but I accepted it and moved on.
Man it was hard.. I nearly shed a tear xD

Mm made a mistake with the old system, and made a new one, some people lost out, too bad, move on.
It's getting a bit childish =		2009-04-01 23:11:00

Author:
Pinchanzee
Posts: 805

I hope there will be a "most loved levels" section, where very well made levels that simply are among the greatest ever made are shown constantly, not dropping out after a time.2009-04-02 07:34:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

I hope there will be a "most loved levels" section, where very well made levels that simply are among the greatest ever made are shown constantly, not dropping out after a time.

That's what "highest rated" and "most hearted" is supposed to help you find.

But right now those categories weren't refreshed so it all the levels that were stuck in the cool pages before the new system (aka it's now useless to use "highest rated" and "most hearted")

.		2009-04-02 16:45:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

No I do not mean most hearted, but most loved as in ... people love this level because it is good. Most hearted is only a number, most hearted could also be called most kidneyed because it does not mean anything. I really mean "loved". Something like the spotlight here in the forums.2009-04-02 21:19:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

No I do not mean most hearted, but most loved as in ... people love this level because it is good. Most hearted is only a number, most hearted could also be called most kidneyed because it does not mean anything. I really mean "loved". Something like the spotlight here in the forums.

Erm.. and who's going to be the judge of that exactly...?
The number crunching gives a completely unbiased view of good levels.
A group of people choosing the best levels is just completely corrupt..		2009-04-02 21:22:00

Author:
Pinchanzee
Posts: 805

Erm.. and who's going to be the judge of that exactly...?
The number crunching gives a completely unbiased view of good levels.
A group of people choosing the best levels is just completely corrupt..
I think MM should just put LittleBigPlanetCentral in charge of this. That way, there will be no bias .		2009-04-02 21:38:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

There should definitely be an MM favourites section.2009-04-02 21:45:00

Author:
olit123
Posts: 1341

But there already is an "MM favourites section" - LittleXim's hearted list.2009-04-02 21:56:00

Author:
tameturtle
Posts: 150

I just sat here and read this thread and boy was I shocked with some of the responses. I do understand passion...just not defeat!

I create because I enjoy it!

I HOPE someone else will also enjoy it but if they don't I'm not distraught!

Sure there are problems...arent there always?

My glass is half full


I spend hours doing what I do because I get a rush from the creativity, not because I think I'll be the next star on the 'cool pages'.


What is often said to people who are unhappy with something...I think you all have said it at one time or another.

Peace, love, and harmony (but that wont happen either)		2009-04-02 22:19:00

Author:
AJnKnox
Posts: 518

I just sat here and read this thread and boy was I shocked with some of the responses. I do understand passion...just not defeat!

I create because I enjoy it!

I HOPE someone else will also enjoy it but if they don't I'm not distraught!

Sure there are problems...arent there always?

My glass is half full


I spend hours doing what I do because I get a rush from the creativity, not because I think I'll be the next star on the 'cool pages'.


What is often said to people who are unhappy with something...I think you all have said it at one time or another.

Peace, love, and harmony (but that wont happen either)
Keep in mind something... someone may love painting... but it's even better if someone looks at their paintings. Someone may love being a writer, but it's even better if someone looks at their books.

It's absolutely imperative that MM figures out a way for authors to properly showcase their work, and I think this thread may SOUND somewhat negative, but it's really constructive because it's people thinking of solutions. Some of those solutions may stick, and as a result LBP could become a much stronger platform.

I went out on Cool Pages last night and it seemed kind of dismal. Because of some of the database flaws it's being mostly taken over by young players who spam play their levels into cool pages, and at the same time sometimes try to lower other creators levels by low-rating them initially. Just go out onto cool pages, pick a single level that was just posted, start it, exit immediately, and give it a 1 star rating. An online database is poorly designed if it allows a couple people to unilaterally kill a level.

I'm not concerned with ME.... I'm concerned with Media Molecule. If these things are implemented this poorly, there will be low quality levels, players will lose interest, creators will lose interest, and the result will be LittleBigPlanet as the victim.

You're assuming everyone here are complaining because they're selfish and are just looking for attention for their levels.... I'm here trying to be constructive so this platform is successful in the long run - because I like it!

And one other thing (I'm not saying this in anger... picture me at peace, but typing this): In software developing the idea of "being unhappy with something" is what drives us on and creates good products. However, as I say to my employees - complain all you want, but make sure there is some good suggestions mixed in with the complaining so you are constructive and help us create a better product.

Knives are sharpened by rubbing them with a rock, not by laying them on a pillow.		2009-04-02 23:28:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Knives are sharpened by rubbing them with a rock, not by laying them on a pillow.

There is much wisdom in this. That is why I've taken the suggestions from this thread and emailed media molecule with them. Who knows if they'll fall on deaf ears or not, but they tend to listen to their community.


But there already is an "MM favourites section" - LittleXim's hearted list.

This is true, but unless you frequent the forums, you'd really have no way of knowing that this existed. Your average 13 year old kid isn't going to know to go to littlexim's hearted page. It would be wonderful if they put a link to this somewhere in either the search area or something, so people could find it easier. ^_^


I'm not concerned with ME.... I'm concerned with Media Molecule. If these things are implemented this poorly, there will be low quality levels, players will lose interest, creators will lose interest, and the result will be LittleBigPlanet as the victim.

You're assuming everyone here are complaining because they're selfish and are just looking for attention for their levels.... I'm here trying to be constructive so this platform is successful in the long run - because I like it!

Exactly. Well put. I want to see the game succeed. No matter how much I complain about it, I complain cause I want to see it get better too. I love the game, and I hate that I love it!

I'm a "glass half full" person too. I believe that things can get better. They're just not quite there yet, that's all.		2009-04-03 00:05:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

This forum is so cool with Ccubage answering the threads for you.

.		2009-04-03 00:08:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I'm pretty convinced that Ccubbage is some sort of Jedi or something. He always has some sort of really good response to things.2009-04-03 00:10:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

I think ccubbage just likes to hear the sound of his own voice...2009-04-03 01:24:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

The Cool Levels definitely were a change for the better where my levels were concerned.
My first three i made (before the change) were sitting with about 1500 plays, each with a good rating and never got anywhere remotely near the front pages.

The two new levels I've published since the change have had over 40,000 each, so it definitely made a huge difference. I'd encourage anyone with a good level that hasn't had a decent crack of the whip to re-publish and there's a good possibility (though no guarantee ) it'll get noticed much easier than before, certainly my experience bears this out.

I've also found a good few levels and creators on the front pages that probably would have gone un-noticed without the new system, so I'm happy with the way its working...		2009-04-03 03:14:00

Author:
julesyjules
Posts: 1156

I loved your levels. Maybe CCubbage is a Jedi from one of them. 2009-04-03 04:46:00

Author:
Jaeyden
Posts: 564

I think ccubbage just likes to hear the sound of his own voice...

You mean, you are READING them out loud while posting? Geesh, I hope you have your own office 		2009-04-03 07:21:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359

Keep in mind something... someone may love painting... but it's even better if someone looks at their paintings. Someone may love being a writer, but it's even better if someone looks at their books.

It's absolutely imperative that MM figures out a way for authors to properly showcase their work, and I think this thread may SOUND somewhat negative, but it's really constructive because it's people thinking of solutions. Some of those solutions may stick, and as a result LBP could become a much stronger platform.

I went out on Cool Pages last night and it seemed kind of dismal. Because of some of the database flaws it's being mostly taken over by young players who spam play their levels into cool pages, and at the same time sometimes try to lower other creators levels by low-rating them initially. Just go out onto cool pages, pick a single level that was just posted, start it, exit immediately, and give it a 1 star rating. An online database is poorly designed if it allows a couple people to unilaterally kill a level.

I'm not concerned with ME.... I'm concerned with Media Molecule. If these things are implemented this poorly, there will be low quality levels, players will lose interest, creators will lose interest, and the result will be LittleBigPlanet as the victim.

You're assuming everyone here are complaining because they're selfish and are just looking for attention for their levels.... I'm here trying to be constructive so this platform is successful in the long run - because I like it!

And one other thing (I'm not saying this in anger... picture me at peace, but typing this): In software developing the idea of "being unhappy with something" is what drives us on and creates good products. However, as I say to my employees - complain all you want, but make sure there is some good suggestions mixed in with the complaining so you are constructive and help us create a better product.

Knives are sharpened by rubbing them with a rock, not by laying them on a pillow.


Please don't misunderstand me...I am not assuming anything.

I do understand people?s frustrations with a broken system. I just disagree that these issues will prevent my enjoyment of creation.

I am not saying anything bad about anybody.

If that was the impression that I left you with then I apologize.

I just read alot about 50+ hours of creation only to have no one really enjoy it...Followed by comments of I wont do it anymore.

This saddened me

Here I am just getting started and I'm hearing about these great designers packing it in.


My aim was not to offend, just to wonder aloud why people would so quickly jump ship even though it isn?t sinking.
2009-04-03 20:01:00

Author:
AJnKnox
Posts: 518

My aim was not to offend, just to wonder aloud why people would so quickly jump ship even though it isn?t sinking.


Believe me, nobody's all-of-a-sudden jumping ship. It's more like this: We've been on the ship a long time now, although "ship" is a loose term, as it's a bit rickety, leaky, and most of the time is more than half submerged anyway. I mean you've got to swim just to reach the dining area.

We're not jumping ship, we just got to the dining area and really, really don't feel like swimming all the way back to the leaky crafts room anymore. The **** water is freezing.		2009-04-03 20:06:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

Believe me, nobody's all-of-a-sudden jumping ship. It's more like this: We've been on the ship a long time now, although "ship" is a loose term, as it's a bit rickety, leaky, and most of the time is more than half submerged anyway. I mean you've got to swim just to reach the dining area.

We're not jumping ship, we just got to the dining area and really, really don't feel like swimming all the way back to the leaky crafts room anymore. The **** water is freezing.

LOL well said 		2009-04-03 20:08:00

Author:
AJnKnox
Posts: 518

hah hah hah. Teebonesy, that was probably the most brilliant analogy I've heard. Well done, sir. ^_^

It is the truth though. For those of us who have been around since the beginning, or close to the beginning (i wasn't in the beta) ... we fought hard with a broken system to get recognition. We had to fight with all the beta levels that were cemented on cool levels and it was awful. Really dark times in the land of LBP. We finally got where we wanted to be, and then were pretty much informed that we had to start from square one again. It was frustrating enough to get to the "dining area" from the "leaky crafts" ...

lol. I sound like a grandma. back in my day, we had to walk up hill ten miles in 80 degree heat to get our levels on Cool Levels! In 20 FEET OF SNOW!

and AJ - don't let the creators leaving or quitting discourage you. If you like creating, and it is fun for you, that's all that matters!		2009-04-03 21:18:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Wow the beta times seems so far away. I can't believe i'm still playing this game since last October!!

.		2009-04-03 23:08:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I keep buying new games and swearing I'm gonna put this game down long enough to play something else.... and it never happens. I bought Resistance 2 at the same time I bought LBP, made it half way through.... and that was it. Bought the new Tomb Raider, played the first part.... that was it.

Are they going to have to create a detox center for us? My wife tried an intervention the other night (of course.... it was a pleasant one XD!!)		2009-04-03 23:12:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I keep buying new games and swearing I'm gonna put this game down long enough to play something else.... and it never happens. I bought Resistance 2 at the same time I bought LBP, made it half way through.... and that was it. Bought the new Tomb Raider, played the first part.... that was it.

Are they going to have to create a detox center for us? My wife tried an intervention the other night (of course.... it was a pleasant one XD!!)

Tell me about it man. I bought Motorstorm 2, Resistance 2, FarCry 2, Prince of Persia, Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge and this isn't counting the couple of Wii and DS games I also bought... but i'm still playing LBP...

.		2009-04-03 23:20:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I layed my gaming-buying-habit a little low for some reasons. Money and LBP are the mayor ones. 2009-04-05 15:01:00

Author:
Fjonan
Posts: 359


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