Archive: 21 posts

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Ive been trying to come up with a simple way to detect the number of players in a level. Ive come up with two ways so far: One way used a grid of proximity switches all set with a small trigger radius. Only one switch could be triggered at any one time by a single player, and although this worked well, it isnt 100% accurate as players could run beside eachother and so are only counted as one. The other way was to simply weigh the players. This got round the problem that the first method suffered with, but inturn required all the players to stand in one place and remain quite still for a short time. This works well but i was hoping to build it in such a way that the players are not required to do anything but play the level as normal and could still be counted. If anyone has ANY ideas of another way of doing this id be very gratefull if you could share them as the method im using at the moment is just too thermo hungry.

2009-03-26 20:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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I was thinking about this recently, and came upon the idea of putting a magnetic key onto the door of a checkpoint. Then kill all of the players at once - the magnetic key shoots out, and activates a switch, which would then count the time the door stays open. I THINK that it takes longer the more people you have. Alternatively, with a similar method, fire one plasma ball a second at the players in a tunnel. If they are standing behind each other, only one dies, triggering the checkpoint, and signifying one more person.

2009-03-26 20:29:00 Author: dawesbr Posts: 3280

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I think the best way to make sure to separate players in order to count them is to use a small sponge on a winch with a grab switch, which would pull the Sackboy up to a platform to continue the level. To make sure that only one Sackboy is grabbing the sponge at a time, you could lower the Strength value of the winch until it's just barely strong enough to pull one Sackperson up at a time. It should then be possible to count the Sackpeople one at a time as they make it to the top, and add a trap to make sure they can't jump back down once they've been counted. Edit : The only weakness I see is that it's possible for the players to Pop in order to fool the system. Hmmmm...

2009-03-26 20:35:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Maybe we should wait for MM on this one.

2009-03-26 20:46:00 Author: SawronZXZ Posts: 463

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Maybe we should wait for MM on this one. I highly doubt they're going to give us something like this. The uses for this are too limited. This is the second time I've seen a thread on counting players though, and I've since started to get a more firm understanding of how to make such a system work. I think I'm going to go ahead and make a player counting contraption.

2009-03-26 21:09:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Beginning of level: Magic mouth: "Optimal performance of this game requires we take a head count before beginning. Please have each sackperson stand on a colored platform to the right until the red light becomes illuminated. Then, you may proceed through the door to begin your fun experience. If, at any point during the game, we detect more sackpeople than you implied, prize bubbles will be eliminated at the conclusion of the level. Thank you and have fun!"

2009-03-26 21:14:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Heh, but what if they can't read english?

2009-03-26 21:18:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Americans expect EVERYONE ELSE to learn english, cause we're too lazy to learn any other language. The entire world should conform to us, thank you very much. I've put comments on levels that aren't in english demanding they conform.

2009-03-26 21:22:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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And it's done! Now that wasn't so hard. I'd like to make a tech demo level to give away the Sackboy counting device but... I honestly have no idea how to showcase it. I'm open to ideas... what DOES one do once they know how many Sackboys are in a level?

2009-03-27 02:16:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Charge admission per player.

2009-03-27 03:03:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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...If, at any point during the game, we detect more sackpeople than you implied, prize bubbles will be eliminated at the conclusion of the level. I think this'd make them want to fool the system even more...

2009-03-27 05:32:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Just a thought (and I know that Gilgamesh has already solved our problem, but...) couldn't the MGS Spotlight switch be used to count players? Or does it only trigger once if more than one player walks through the light simultaneously?

2009-03-27 07:20:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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Gilgamesh, 1. How did you do it, 2. Just have like a bit of running and jumping and a magic mouth that says "There are x people playing". Leave it to the user to find implementations.

2009-03-27 09:48:00 Author: dawesbr Posts: 3280

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I think the weight thing is the only validation for you. You can hide it by cloaking the weight mechanism as a lift orsomething, that only starts driving once everyone is inside. and while they are confied in the lift/elevator, you can weight them. Mh problem that I see here ... if they jump around weighting does not work if the jump around a lot. Maybe another idea: Instead of making a winch that can carry only one sack at a time, make a balloon that can only carry one sack at a time. Now force the players through a proximity switch set to "require all" up in the air so they can proceed. So by counting the grab switches on the balloons used at the moment the proximity switch is triggered you got your number and it is valid! Ha!

2009-03-27 10:55:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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Better idea! Do what he said only have invisible mag. keys on each balloon, each a diff color. At the top have mag. key switches, diff color, each connected to dissolve material. (Similar to a door that requires multiple switches to open, put a mag. key on the top block (preferably glass) and to the side of where each dissolve is, put a diff mag key switch (first for 1 player, second for 2 players, etc.). The only problem with this though is if people take more than 1 balloon.

2009-03-27 13:19:00 Author: SawronZXZ Posts: 463

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The advantage with my technique is, that you will have a moment, when you know you have the exact number of players each grabbing his own grab switch with no possibility of faking since one ballon cannot be hold by two players and to trigger the proximity switch all players are needed so everyone has to have his own balloon. So at the second your proximity trigger set to "require all" is triggered, you capture the "count" you have achieved with your number of grab switches from the balloons.

2009-03-27 13:30:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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A player could still pop before the counting device and make the whole system fail... much like my own actually. It seems Require All will work for the 0.5 seconds after a player pops but before he respawns from a checkpoint. This shouldn't be an issue if the player has no hint that they are being headcounted though, which is why I avoid using any magic mouths. To players, they just have to pass a seemingly simple glass slide obstacle.

2009-03-27 14:13:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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What do you mean with "pop"? I would ... the second they grab a ballon, let a piston move. You could attach 4 pistons to each other with mag switches in between, so that only on piston triggers green, two triggers blue etc. so that at the moment they activate the proxy switch somethin immideately happens before someone can let loose of the ballon. They have to be there to trigger teh "require all" switch. We are talking about 0.1 seconds of possible failure here. That is the time necessary to fixate the count from the ballons from the proxy switch and this feels pretty darn accurate to me.

2009-03-27 15:07:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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Pop is pop, when the sackboy goes all angry/constipated and then blows up. I think the game calls it "Try Again" or some such. And no, there is no way to bypass this AFAIK. The Require All will fire for the remaining players, even if there are more that are respawning/dead. Edit : It's a pretty moot point though since in order for this scenario to happen one needs to have intimate knowledge of the Sack counting device and some kind of reason to want to bother to fool the system (Or it could just be me, and I happen to feel like breaking the level lol). There's also nothing to be done if a player decides to leave the game right after being counted, thereby skewing the player count for the remainder of the level. Edit 2 : Both of these scenarios are too improbable to need some kind of complex workaround to be developed. In theory any counting device should work for over 95% of players regardless.

2009-03-27 15:30:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Ah now I understand. Yeah wel you can never be absolutely sure. You can state it to the player, that it is important that everyone is present from the start to the finish line. With the infinite-lives-checkpoint you will have one less problem coming, too.

2009-03-28 11:03:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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Just published the device. Check it out and feel free to use it/modify it however you want. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=p=174041

2009-03-28 15:51:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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