Archive: 13 posts

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So I played this level: https://lbp.me/v/qt4pb28 It looked good on the outside, wasn't too bad, but it just made think of the thing wrong with LBP3's 3D platforming. First off, I'd like to say the game was not made for 3D platforming. This needs to be kept in mind. The problem is not knowing where you're going to land/platform onto. This might have just been the problem with the creator, but I've noticed this on almost all 3D levels I played. Maybe this was the challenge, but I don't agree that not knowing where to land should ever be a challenge in a platformer. I hope I'm not the only one to have this problem. Is there any way for these creators to overcome this? Maybe a highlight underneath the player indicating where he or she's going to land (I believe Super Mario 64 used a circular shadow to do this)? Followers on the player that automatically shift them onto the platform? Is the lack of a rotating 3D camera to blame? What do you think? Also, do you know of any levels where you didn't experience this problem?

2014-12-18 03:25:00 Author: minifat Posts: 75

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I think it is the creator's fault for making a jumping section with a one layer platform. No matter if you knew where you were going to land or not, that is not easy to stabilize yourself that quickly in such a small place. One layer should never be used for jumping sections unless you are bound to that layer.

2014-12-18 06:31:00 Author: koltonaugust Posts: 1382

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I would think it's the lack of relative objects and dimensions for the player to judge the distance. A moving camera would actually help this and I know it was a bit of an issue in games like God of War, or any game for that matter with a fixed camera.

2014-12-18 06:53:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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Yes, I've noticed this too. I would make these suggestions: certain platforms really don't need the risk of falling to be there so add some invisible material to prevent pointless fails. When jumping, the creator should disable the 3D movement and let LBP's default layer shifting mechanic take over. Once he lands then we return to 3D controls again. I would also consider whether you actually need all those complex angles and pitfalls whilst using 3D. Surely, one of the main reasons for 3D is to give the impression of freedom, but that doesn't necessarily mean total control over where you go. I saw a great level where someone had spots dedicated to 3D movement such as sidling along a wall or walking forward along a peer. That was enough to give you the feeling of freedom without it becoming infuriating to manoeuvre. The timing of the jump should be the danger, not the walk along a layer to get to it. Only today I was playing a 3D level with a 3D movement give away. After spending five minutes trying to orientate sackboy to make certain jumps and grab certain things, I gave up and couldn't be bothered to get that logic from the end of the level. If you want to see what is possible with 3D, go to Steve-Big-Guns earth and take a look at his two 3D givaways.

2014-12-18 14:01:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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There's a level here: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=93070-Project-Fluid-360%B0-(Advanced-3D-Movement)-Create-TRUE-3D-Platformers where the creator is working on perfecting a 3d toolkit and is coming pretty close. I've pointed out to him the problem with precision platforming. My suggestions are a shadow, if possible and some sort of guidance to the platform. You could build a block of sticker that's an extra layer thicker than the platform and use the sub-level trick to make it so it hangs halfway off the front and back. Impact sensor coupled with a 0 movement and 3 or 4 in/out movement with about 50% strength and it should give you just enough of a nudge to make it so you can land but not enough to completely hijack your movement if you're not actually trying to land there. As a sidenote, I've also been exploring the possibility of ramps/stairs in 3d space. Haven't made anything ideal yet but it looks like there's potential.

2014-12-18 15:10:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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There's a level here: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=93070-Project-Fluid-360%B0-(Advanced-3D-Movement)-Create-TRUE-3D-Platformers where the creator is working on perfecting a 3d toolkit and is coming pretty close. I've pointed out to him the problem with precision platforming. My suggestions are a shadow, if possible and some sort of guidance to the platform. You could build a block of sticker that's an extra layer thicker than the platform and use the sub-level trick to make it so it hangs halfway off the front and back. Impact sensor coupled with a 0 movement and 3 or 4 in/out movement with about 50% strength and it should give you just enough of a nudge to make it so you can land but not enough to completely hijack your movement if you're not actually trying to land there. As a sidenote, I've also been exploring the possibility of ramps/stairs in 3d space. Haven't made anything ideal yet but it looks like there's potential. Go to Steve-big-guns planet and copy his 3D level. That's as good as it's ever going to get. Also grab the 3D chip from his prototype level. https://lbp.me/v/qt4h0m9 https://lbp.me/v/qt0hxn3 If you don't know who he is, he works for SUMO.

2014-12-18 15:19:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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If you don't know who he is, he works for SUMO. Well that hardly seems fair: how's anybody supposed to compete? Yeah, I'll grab it but I'm not sure I'll ever accept that something is "as good as it's going to get." If we were the type of people who accept things like that, why would we be creating at all? And that was a good-natured jab; I'm actaully VERY grateful that people who worked on the game are willing to share their creations. I've also seen him give tips on how some of the story mode logic was created.

2014-12-18 15:25:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Well that hardly seems fair: how's anybody supposed to compete? Yeah, I'll grab it but I'm not sure I'll ever accept that something is "as good as it's going to get." If we were the type of people who accept things like that, why would we be creating at all? And that was a good-natured jab; I'm actaully VERY grateful that people who worked on the game are willing to share their creations. I've also seen him give tips on how some of the story mode logic was created. It's only the technique to get 3D. What people DO with that technique is what makes the creators unique.

2014-12-18 15:32:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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It's only the technique to get 3D. What people DO with that technique is what makes the creators unique. And what I intend to do is stairs/ramps and landing assist

2014-12-18 15:41:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Just resurrecting this thread; don't mind me. One of the things I did in my 3D work was to add in-air momentum using an OR loop with a degrading signal. This did wonders for my ability to land on platforms: it just made it feel more natural and I'd land where I expected to. Aside from that, I also use "landing zones" these are sticker panels that are a layer thicker than the platform (they're offset using an analog signal piped into a positional advanced in/out so that they cover the platform and extend 1/2 layer in front and behind). There's a tag and my Sackboy broadcast has an impact sensor wired into an in/out mover that will put him on the correct layer to stick the landing. The speed is reasonably low so that it's easy for the player to override if they want and it should be subtle enough that they don't even notice it's happening; they'll just notice that landing seems to work. Note that the momentum and landing zones were separate experiments: each helps with 3D platforming and, combined, they should make things much better. Generally, though, I would still avoid single layer platforms where you can.

2015-02-18 07:00:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Small tip: add a small shadow under the character as a visual reference point. Super Mario 64 best practices FTW.

2015-02-19 02:48:00 Author: bonner123 Posts: 1487

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Small tip: add a small shadow under the character as a visual reference point. Super Mario 64 best practices FTW. Nice idea but how would you go about doing it?

2015-02-19 03:26:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I've tried the above in a 3D top down level. It's hard to get the shadow to work correctly. It would probably be easier in regular, not top down. If you see any levels that use a shadow, link it here

2015-02-25 15:41:00 Author: minifat Posts: 75

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