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#1

Have Trophies Killed Games?

Archive: 53 posts

Now, it seems that a lot of people are buying games for tropies, and not for fun. I know that it's sometimes good to have targets to aim for but not if they aren't actually fun.

The LBP trophies are a perfect example of a good trophy set up in my oppinion. Those trophies have fun challenges, yet they're realistic. The Burnout Paridise trophies are so easy to obtain, for example, the first thing you do is go through a garage, bronze trophy. This sort of thing is killing off gaming for fun and starting a time of (almost) buying trophies.

So now it seems the trophy system has almost become a marketing trick by Sony. This is just my oppinion by the way, so say what you think.


I won't be voting on the poll.		2009-02-28 16:57:00

Author:
S-A-S--G-U-N-R
Posts: 1606

no they didn't, there were added to add extra replayability to a game.

trophies win.		2009-02-28 17:00:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824

i dont care about trophys
as long as the games good am happy.		2009-02-28 17:01:00

Author:
01philip01
Posts: 545

Well, my opinion may be slightly biased, but I wouldn't say it kills the fun. If people think collecting trophies is fun to do, then why should we say that what they think is fun ISN'T fun?

Who is it ruining the fun for? The trophy hunters? They think it's fun, and usually it wouldn't affect you, so why should you tell us it is no fun?		2009-02-28 17:04:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

so why should you tell us it is no fun?

I am allowed an oppinion, and I'm tot telling, I'm asking for other peoples oppinions. My point was that a lot of people seem to be buying games for trophies and forgetting about having fun. Some games have no trophies now, this doesn't seem to bother me. My oppinion is that trophies are taking the fun out of the games and taking the attention to the trophies.

There are only a few people I know, now, that are still playing for fun.		2009-02-28 17:12:00

Author:
S-A-S--G-U-N-R
Posts: 1606

Eh, newer games always have trophies since the trophies arrived.2009-02-28 17:20:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824

Valkyria Chronicles, some people refused to buy it because it didn't have trophies.

I wouldn't say they've killed games, but if they were kept more like Skill Points in Ratchet and Clank, giving unlockables for the game, it'd be better.		2009-02-28 17:22:00

Author:
LFF
Posts: 434

Eh, newer games always have trophies since the trophies arrived.

NFS: Undercover didn't.		2009-02-28 17:24:00

Author:
S-A-S--G-U-N-R
Posts: 1606

I take back my words.2009-02-28 17:24:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824

Most people are still playing games just for the games like they always have, there are a few people that are grabing every trophy they can get but you get that with every collectible thing.

Personally I will try to get every trophy in a game I've purchased but will not bother if I'm not having fun while doing it.		2009-03-01 10:51:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

It's a matter of personal taste isn't it? I could care less about trophies. If I get them fine, but I won't replay a game to get them all. It adds extra value for those who have the time and skill to collect them. I don't feel it hurts a game at all.2009-03-01 18:01:00

Author:
pembo
Posts: 38

I think that trophies add to the fun of doing playing. It adds replayability also. But will some games be over shadowed by some people because they think others are more fun due to trophies? Yes. Personally i think trophy hunting is very fun and there are many more that do. I think trophies was definitely a good thing seeing how it enhanced the fun when playing a game.

Cheers!		2009-03-01 18:12:00

Author:
RAINFIRE
Posts: 1101

I totally agree with your concern and I think trophies are a crutches for people who doesn't have to have fun with their games by themselves. It's another step toward the easy life of golden spoon fed children that won't have to think or make any efforts.

While I think it's ridiculous and bad for gamers, what's the kind of question you're asking in a poll there? How do you expect us to answer "yes"? It might harm gaming somehow but it certainly didn't "kill" anything. Especially not MY fun.

I'd just like to tell young people and gamers that liked achievement that those things aren't original or awesome but just a golden spoon. I've been having achievements in my videogames since I started playing videogames in 1983. The only difference they is with the new young gamer is the following:

- My generation of gamers didn't need text on screen telling to try and pass Super Mario with one life. We create our achievements and we do them!

- We didn't need to brag about what we did in videogames. E-penis didn't exist and even today, who the **** cares if you been through the game using one life? It's YOUR fun. It's good for YOU.

.		2009-03-01 19:02:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Personally, I love the idea of trophies. It's something extra to work towards, but isn't compulsory. If people don't find it fun, then they don't try and get them.

I can't see why trophies are a bad thing, it made me like my PS3 a lot more and I love just getting as many as possible.		2009-03-01 19:07:00

Author:
Bear
Posts: 2079

the trophy sound is satisfying...2009-03-01 19:09:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824

the trophy sound is satisfying...

That's true, plus it feels nice along with the icon popping up. It gives you a sense of achievement, as if you've done something right and it feels good. I <3 trophies.		2009-03-01 19:21:00

Author:
Bear
Posts: 2079

well now all games must have trophies to be released for anything that comes out past January,1st,2009.
Trophies didnt kill anything.. its just a new thing for
PS3 and few games have it now but now all games will start to have it so the purge for them will die down.		2009-03-01 21:52:00

Author:
Snrm
Posts: 6419

Trophies add a LOT of replay value. For instance, up until recently it was enough just to FINISH a game. But now you can look at the trophies for cool things you never experienced. If you blew through the game, you may have never known there was more to do.

I ended up playing through several games more than once because I looked at the trophy list and realized there were pieces I had missed.		2009-03-02 20:19:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I like them, but I wish all the trophies would be hidden until you unlock them. It would add to the surprise more I think, and it would stop people from being trophy idiots and (while playing online) do something stupid to get the trophy they want.2009-03-02 20:50:00

Author:
LightGrenades
Posts: 218

I like them, but I wish all the trophies would be hidden until you unlock them. It would add to the surprise more I think, and it would stop people from being trophy idiots and (while playing online) do something stupid to get the trophy they want.

Yeah that wouldn't work, trophy lists are posted online weeks before the games are out.		2009-03-02 21:18:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Yeah that wouldn't work, trophy lists are posted online weeks before the games are out.

indeed, there is a site that scans sonys servers to get trophy lists so early AND I WON'T TELL WHAT IT IS hahaha ... >_<		2009-03-02 21:22:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

http://www.ps3trophies.co.uk/
http://www.ps3trophies.org/index.php

Plus several other sites like joystiq and thesixthaxis host lists its not like its a big secret.		2009-03-02 21:32:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

http://www.ps3trophies.co.uk/
http://www.ps3trophies.org/index.php

Plus several other sites like joystiq and thesixthaxis host lists its not like its a big secret.

no, I mean a site that hacks sonys severs >_<		2009-03-02 23:15:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

.org gets them off the sony servers .co.uk probably does as well.2009-03-02 23:47:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Trophies are cool. Complaining about them is ridicolous if you don't like them don't try and get them. There is a very small ammount of people who take it too seriously, was reading a magazine and a guy got kicked out of college cause he never went in and spent all his time getting achievmwnts on the xbox 360 or something like that.

But trophies FTW		2009-03-02 23:48:00

Author:
Don Vhalt
Posts: 2270

ps3 ruint it... trophies suck its just a way to brag... it does nothing ... it the same case with xbox live gamerscore...2009-03-03 00:19:00

Author:
Zommy
Posts: 1232

Trophies are good to have in a game. It adds more to the replay value, and they give you have actual proof that you have beaten the game 100%.
I was very proud of myself getting 100% on the 5 R&C games I own, but since most of em are ps2, I can't exactly prove it. I even made up skill points, like beating the game without armour, etc.
And like someone said above, trophies make you do things you wouldn't usually think of during a standard play through.

And I love the names they give skill points/trophies. All in good fun. :hero:		2009-03-03 05:08:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

They certainly have not killed gaming, it's just a marketing incentive for some people.2009-03-03 07:35:00

Author:
Pinkcars
Posts: 380

They certainly have not killed gaming, it's just a marketing incentive for some people.

The only aspect on wich I kinda agree with the thread starter feeling is that I think it's sad that a growing number of gamers need trophies in order to realise there's TONS of replay value and fun to have with games out there.

.		2009-03-03 15:36:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I don't think that trophies have killed off the fun factor, but I do think that the trophy system has caused a more serious problem.

The system encourages compulsive gaming habits, plain and simple. It's very easy to keep playing a game just to get a trophy, and because of this, gamers are logging more hours than ever on their consoles. Many people, in an unhealthy way.

For this reason I feel it's the responsibility of developers to keep trophy goals reasonable, and unfortuantely, many do not. GTA4 is a good example of this... the ultimate multiplayer trophy requires you to earn 5 million in cash online, which could easily translate into a year of constant play. Call of Duty 4 had its "10th prestige", and while not a trophy, required a sickening number of game hours to achieve (I'm certain had the game had trophies, this would have been one of them).

So I say keep the trophies coming for skill-based achievements, such as beating the hardest difficulty mode, etc., but get rid of those that simply require a lot of game hours to achieve. Everyone should be able to achieve the platinum trophy for every game, but bragging rights should be left for having skill, not lack of a life outside the game.		2009-03-03 15:52:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

For this reason I feel it's the responsibility of developers to keep trophy goals reasonable, and unfortuantely, many do not. GTA4 is a good example of this... the ultimate multiplayer trophy requires you to earn 5 million in cash online, which could easily translate into a year of constant play.


Noose you can get $4500 in 3 minutes

5,000,000 divided by 4500 is 1,111 times

20 matches an hour

52 hours or so

It's not too long just incredibly tedious, still its more likely to be got then the ones for winning everything and beating their co op times especially with the servers tendancy to not record wins properly.		2009-03-03 16:18:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

And if the people play it that constantly, they're mental. Not the developers fault. You can perfectly do that in bursts, if you keep at the game.2009-03-03 16:45:00

Author:
LFF
Posts: 434

Trophy/Achievement points are set out for alot of things.

Developers use them as a marketing gimmick. Some people (myself included) love gamer points/trophies to show measure of achievement, and to set goals for ourselves that in the end will have a result. Eg. Kill all behemoths in fallout, gold trophy. Without a trophy, sure i could set that goal out for myself, but have no way to measure my success.

As I said in the metal gear trophy thread, MGS4 not having trophies has almost killed the game for me. Why? I played through it once on normal, and didnt find the motivation to play through a second and third time on harder diffculties. Previous metal gears had dog tags to unlock things such as steath wigs/bandanas and unlimited ammo etc etc, that got me to play through them a few more times on harder diffculties.

I still however, find myself gaming for fun 10 times out of 10. I will never, ever play a game for the sole purpose of trophies. The game will be enjoyable, and trophies/achievement points can come naturally. But without a solid online ranking system (if applicable) and/or trophy/achivement system, I may find myself trading in for a game with more solid replayability.		2009-03-03 17:04:00

Author:
HalfaSack
Posts: 214

Nope, if anything it fills in a little more playtime for people who care about it, and the people who don't care about them, well, don't care about them so it doesn't affect them.2009-03-03 17:06:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

Noose you can get $4500 in 3 minutes

5,000,000 divided by 4500 is 1,111 times

20 matches an hour

52 hours or so

And this is under fantastically ideal conditions. This math makes no assumption that your party is competent is able to beat the match, let alone in 3 minutes. It makes no inclusion of connection/lobby time. And speaks ridiculously to the fact that you have to do a monotonous activity at least 1,111 times which is bound to get boring quickly.

This is why I say "a year", or for hardcore people who are actually able to tolerate playing the exact same match consecutively 1000 times, at least several months.

My point is, it's a stupid achievement that I see very few people reaching, because the online play is not very engaging to begin with (although I'm sure there are many die-hard fans) and NOOSE is the only game mode that can offer anywhere near this $/hr rate.

My attention span could never hold up to getting this trophy.		2009-03-03 17:19:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

52 hours for a single trophy. That's exactly something mental. That's what having no life means to me.

It's hilarious how the guy proved TheGide's point here.

.		2009-03-03 19:07:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I like to collect things. It's fun and enjoyable, and provides a sense of achievement.

But I don't like the ridiculously hard trophies, like mentioned above. 50+ hours for a gold trophy is just plain dumb.

Trophies are what likely started the H4H craze in LBP. Why spend 40-50 hours making a high quality level to earn enough hearts to get the "Create" trophy, when you can just swap hearts and get it over and done with quickly?

I also don't like how Platinum trophies encompass multi-player and single player game modes. I can kind of understand how it means you have beaten the game inside and out, but from what I have seen of competative online games, single player trophies need skill (kill this many enemies in this minutes, beat game on super hard) while competative trophies are just grinds (win 10,000 deathmatches). The second one is not really an example of skill, it's an example of repeatition and grinding, for which I am against. It's annoying how you have to do both sides of the coin to get platinum.

It's a wonderful concept though, but horribly, horribly flawed. It adds replay and adds some creative challenges, but it encourages cheating and abuse as well just for the point of bragging rights, which is not a good thing.

People can and will cheat to get a trophy. The H4H scandal is proof positive of this point, and ruins the whole thing. 		2009-03-04 04:27:00

Author:
Elbee23
Posts: 1280

Trophies/achievements are good in theory...but in practice are kinda flawed.
Many people like to do things the easiest way possible. This results in getting the trophies/achievements in the cheapest way possible or finding some way around actually doing it to get it easier.

This takes away from the whole "YAY look what I did aspect." because you never know if the person did it legit or if they got it some easy way.

In the end I like achievements/trophies, but they in no way add to me buying a game or not or playing it longer.		2009-03-04 04:37:00

Author:
Laharlsama07
Posts: 39

Has everyone forgot the ridiculous H4H? I mean I'm one of those people that can go without trophies, they have no purpose, they are simply there for bragging rights.

If a game is fun, YOU WILL replay it, don't say it's the trophies that are adding replay value, face it, if it's fun, you will play it over and over.

And if your replaying a game that isn't fun, just for the trophies, well I just made my point.

So many people just go for trophies, like those H4H People out there, I can put money down that people wouldn't do that if trophies weren't there.

Same for any other game, it just ruins the game, let's say your playing an FPS, and one of the trophies states "Live for one whole game without dying."

What will you do? You're going to hide, your probably not having fun doing this ( my assumption, since the point is to kill ) and your not helping your teammates.

On the other hand, some games improve gameplay. Now, I'm not talking about trophies, but badges in the game. They encourage players to heal, revive, and help the team.

So, in my opinion, everyone can do without the trophies.		2009-03-04 04:48:00

Author:
Whalio Cappuccino
Posts: 5250

Hiding can be fun though in shooting games. And there are some trophies that encourage team healing. For both examples, I can use left 4 dead.

There are acheivements for healing teammates a given number of times, picking someone up, giving pills, etc.

Hiding in left 4 dead can be fun to see just how long you can last.		2009-03-04 04:54:00

Author:
Laharlsama07
Posts: 39

Hiding has different impacts for different games. Survival horror games, it makes a lot of sense to hide. Same if you are an assassination or big boss target in a team shooter.

But a co-op team game, hiding is stupid. You detract from the overall team experience, all to get a trophy. Certainly, you can just play normally and with skill and good team work just not die... or... you can cheat and hide in a corner, and hope your team members are competent enough to win while you go and have a meal.

That's just not good in my opinion. 		2009-03-04 05:17:00

Author:
Elbee23
Posts: 1280

Well, Left 4 dead the main part is co op against another team though. Hiding from that other team can be fun every so often BECAUSE its different from how you normally play the game.

To me the problem isnt trophies/achievements. It is easy to say that it is the trophies that ruin it, but in the end it comes down to the players. They choose to play that way for the trophy. They are the ones who choose to do it the cheap way and ruin the experience. They choose to make the trohpies meaningless.

Even when trohpies arent at stack and there is no leaderboard, in online games people play cheap and do stupid things. Is it the games fault that the person can play that way? No, not really. It all is about the players who make the choice to ruin it.

It is just sad that now because of online gaming what would normally just ruin the fun for the individual player, now effects others.		2009-03-04 05:24:00

Author:
Laharlsama07
Posts: 39

Trophies in theory are good. In practice they aren't flawed.

The problem is not with the Trophies. It's either the lack of guidance from Sony into helping devellopers designing them or devs simply don't put much thought into them.

Take LBP as an example. Many of their trophies are horrible ideas, like the hearting one. I'm still flabergasted at how they couldn't see the HFH phenomenon and the trophy levels coming in spades. The blame REALLY goes on Media Molecule and not the Trophies concept itself.

There's some trophies that were great ideas like "playing 150 community levels". The should alwauys avoid Trophy related to self worth toward a community like that one asking for a number of hearts on you or your level.

.		2009-03-04 06:21:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Prince of Persia was a real perpetrator for easy, stupid trophies. If game had trophies like not getting hit by homin g 1-up mushrooms while collecting 8 red coins such as in this Super Mario 64 Video
YouTube - ????64??????? Part 5 (Second half)
they'd be a lot better.		2009-03-04 18:10:00

Author:
LFF
Posts: 434

Honestly, I have no opinion on H4H whatsoever, if they want to do it just to get trophies then that's fine, it doesn't effect me or any of you in any way so I don't mind if people do it. I don't care about the trophy issues, if people wish to 'cheat' to get them then that's just their problem and it takes away the fun-factor of the entire game.2009-03-04 18:34:00

Author:
Bear
Posts: 2079

Honestly, I have no opinion on H4H whatsoever, if they want to do it just to get trophies then that's fine, it doesn't effect me or any of you in any way so I don't mind if people do it. I don't care about the trophy issues, if people wish to 'cheat' to get them then that's just their problem and it takes away the fun-factor of the entire game.

H4H does have an impact on us though. It clogs up the comment sections and can cover up meaningful feedback in the level. Not just the "H4H" comment but also the single letter comments can also clog up the comments list. All the useless comments and levels strain the servers more than what is needed, meaning that people who don't want to get in the scheme will be playing on servers wasting energy on this endeavour.

Finally, it encourages rubbish levels, and to try and give these rubbish levels as many hearts and plays as possible. This means that serious levels either get ignored completely, meaning the author is quite possibly going to get dissillusioned and give up, which is not good, or else they will be doing the "repost shuffle", republishing there level more than is required for actual updates, in order to try and get more attention than the H4H and trophy levels. This option further clogs up the servers unnecessarily leading to a worse off experience all around, both for players and creators.

So to say H4H has no impact on people who create or play seriously... I disagree with this conclusion. 		2009-03-05 00:25:00

Author:
Elbee23
Posts: 1280

Prince of Persia was a real perpetrator for easy, stupid trophies. If game had trophies like not getting hit by homin g 1-up mushrooms while collecting 8 red coins such as in this Super Mario 64 Video
YouTube - ????64??????? Part 5 (Second half) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxS978jSo3E)
they'd be a lot better.

These guys have to be the most irritating people on Earth, LOL when the mushroom is above him, OMG this is hilarious.		2009-03-05 00:31:00

Author:
Whalio Cappuccino
Posts: 5250

My small two cents is if people really buy game based off of whether or not they have trophies is their problem and is dumb IMO but obviously not to them. Also if the game is good enough it shouldn't need to trophies for people to get it; and if they don't get it oh well imo.

But H4H levels and trophy levels deffinately do have an impact		2009-03-05 00:32:00

Author:
Hamsalad
Posts: 2551

MGS4: No trophies. Huge sales, tons of people playing online.
CoD4: No trophies. Huge sales, tons of people playing online.
Burnout Paradise: No trophies at launch. Huge sales, tons of people playing online.
Etc, etc.

The answer: No. People will always continue to play games because the game itself is rewarding, and the game itself has its own hook, rather than playing "for the trophies".

What it does encourage is completionism, and longevity for the game to make sure everything gets done before selling it/passing it on/other. Some people do get caught up in it a bit too much, hence trophy levels and lots of stuff like that. It's a reward, despite a meaningless one, and so some people will still do what they can to get them as easily as possible. But these will always exist in some form or another in gaming, because they just want to get ahead and be recognized, methods aside.

So I think the benefits outweigh the defects. Defects will always be there, they're just now focused on one thing. Fine with me.

And I rather like the encouragement to branch out and do things differently, and go for different parts of the game I might mostly ignore otherwise. (See Midnight Club: LA's list as a great example of this.) As far as I'm concerned in that, it's good on my count.

And this whole idea is not going away ANY time soon, if ever. Get used to it.		2009-03-05 01:01:00

Author:
Mark D. Stroyer
Posts: 632

Biggest downside to tropies & achivements is if you play a terrible game all your friends can see it for as long as you have the account.2009-03-05 13:11:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

I see the trophies as an added on bit at the end, if I get one I just say, cool I got a trophy without really realizing at all.

EDIT: LOL at Above ^^		2009-03-05 15:05:00

Author:
Defaultsound
Posts: 137

Biggest downside to tropies & achivements is if you play a terrible game all your friends can see it for as long as you have the account.

That's the main problem with people! And the very why trophies are interesting for many people. You care too much about what other people think.

People that don't give a crap about others (like me lol) don't see the point in trophy or all E-penis related stuff. What does that bring me that you can see i've achieved something or not? And why shoul I give a **** about what you play really?



.		2009-03-05 18:10:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

And why shoul I give a **** about what you play really?


Because the internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS!		2009-03-06 00:53:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728


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