Archive: 14 posts

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My roomates and I recently published a level that we have worked on for well over three months on an almsot daily basis. It is very challenging, not I believe in the aspect of what to do, but simply in executing it. However, it is very much possible, with others than just the developers having beaten it before. Once we published it online though, no one has beaten it without one of us taking them through it. Again, this is not from them not knowing what to do, but simply not being able to do it. All that being said, we have only had 50 people play it yet, so I would like to ask for some critical feedback from all of you here. The level name is "Lolz: 7th street". Thank you and good luck

2009-02-26 04:27:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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It helps if you put your psn name in the link... I plan to try to find it, but keep in mind... if you make it so hard that people have to keep starting over, they won't after a while, most likely.

2009-02-26 05:08:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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Ok, I played the level - about 4 or 5 times... And I will give my thoughts. I loved the lighting, and such - it created great visual ambiance. The first thing I encountered in your level were those darned wobble poles that they had in the Japanese campaign of the game. I hated them then, and I am afraid that I hate them now. They can kill you when you do nothing wrong. You can be happily running along, and low and behold, you just slide in between them and die. I worked on the middle path. I was not super fond of the glass thing, but I got through it all right. One thing I did notice was that if you die somewhere along this path, until after you get past the swings (with the cool prox lights on them) you have to go all they way back to the very beginning - before the dreaded wobble polls (which I already said what I thought of them). I think you will get a lot more plays if you 1: put in more spawn points, and 2: if you use infinite spawn points, so that people who get fairly far in your levels don't have to start over. I liked the fact that you made your level challenging in a variety of ways, and not just making your puzzles hard by making them fast.... But unless you find away to make it either not so hard, or put more spawn points in, you are going to find that a lot of people will neither finish your level, or want to play more. There is nothing that makes me want to not go back to a level more than having to recover a ton of lost ground because the points are spaced to far apart or having to start over because of a hard section without adequate spawn points. I don't mind hard at all. I really look forward to playing your level again sometime. But I would like to see it tweeked a bit first. I was bothered by no music, and no even attempt at any hook - other than "take 3 paths and get more bubbles the higher you go"... Stories aren't required... But some kind of veneer of one will make people want to play your levels. And visually, you can see the dark matter you used as nails on your items. You will get a lot of people on this board who will mention it if they play it. Also, there is no sound really at all, other than the night sounds that setting your level to "night" give you, other than the bomb explosions. Possibly consider hiding some sound speakers around to either reward people for things (like making a hard jump) or just to mix it up. Anyway... That is my two cents. (oh, and if you put the name in the title, and prefix it with the F4F option, you might get more people to read your thread - speaking from advice someone gave me)

2009-02-26 05:36:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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My psn has been added, thank you for the feed back. I will look into the music, and tyding it up a bit. The bambo sticks are not too increadbly hard to do, it just requires finnese. Instead of running full tilt across them, you have to run at just under the full speed - if that makes any sence. The glass platform that is mishappen is a fun little piece, it is actually much easier with the lights up, do you think that would help - turning the lights up? But that then reduces the effect of the lighting... Can you clarify what you mean by infinate spawn points? I know of a double spawn point, but not infinate... As for venner, I have no idea what would fit the level. It is a simple challenge, can you make it through or not. So I am not sure how to change that, any ideas. Also, what is f4f? Did you make it all the way through the level by the way? And was it only through the middle level that you went? Did you try for the upper or lower levels? So again, thank you for the feedback.

2009-02-27 00:41:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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By the by, just figured out the meaning of f4f - is there anyway to add it to the title now?

2009-02-27 01:04:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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You are right... The bamboo sticks aren't hard... They are just unpredictable... Leading to what I think are cheap deaths, so I have never been fond of them. For Infinite spawn points (I have never made them, but others have) - have a prox switch or a button attach to an emitter that kicks out spawn points... That way when you die, you pop out of the spawn point and the emitter, or button kicks out a new one, so you can just keep going - a good way to allow people to really hack at hard spots without getting POed about getting really far and then dying on a tough spot. I did not make it through your level. After several plays, I found myself getting killed by the same piece of lightning infected material on the middle path. And since there were a bit too many things in the level that bugged me at the time (like having to go over somewhat long distances of certain areas over and over again) I figured I would wait until you tweeked the level a bit. I briefly tried the lower, and that seemed a bit harder for me, and I looked for the upper, but it wasn't obvious where I might go to find it... Maybe put some arrows at the deviation point so people can decide... And maybe get rid of the lightning infected material above the platform where you choose, so you can have ample time do decide which to choose, without worrying about death. As for the glass section, maybe add a fairy light to the middle of the glass? As for adding F4F... I think you can... Just go into edit mode, and it should be there (though it might be in advanced edit).

2009-02-27 04:55:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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When you jump on the platform, after the bambo sticks, that is where you have the options for middle, upper, or lower. - will work to make that more obvious. There is a trick to that platform, if you stand directly in the center, where the chain is, you wil not die from the electric pieces, this gives you time to gather you thoughts etc.... I am not to fond of the idea of infinate spawn points, although perhaps difficult areas it could have a use... I will experiment with that... Also, what glass section are you talking about? There are several all throughout the level, especiall on the lower level Thank you for your feedback, I will work on fixing these things soon

2009-02-27 22:28:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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Oh... I know where the choice is... I am just suggesting you make it more overt, to make it more of a big deal moment - like "now is the time to choose!" I never died on the platform... I can just see how people might... And they might want to think about what options they have... I normally agree with you about infinite spawn points... I don't personally use them (yet)... But On the other hand, you have built a level that - even as the levels designer - you feel is hard... And even though you feel that it might be a bit cheap, you will get a lot more plays if you put them in... And getting people to play it and give you decent ratings will go a lot longer way than trying to be a purist... It would be a shame for your level to get trashed - because it has so much promise - just because people don't want to bother with starting over. Little Big Apocolypse by JonMartin is one of the few really hard platforming levels that people are willing to rate well because they have a lot going for it. Your level has a lot going for it, but people just won't give you the chance if you make it that much of a gauntlet. Right or wrong, that is what will happen... And when they give up because of that, they will rate you badly. My "King O Side" level used to be way harder... And innitially I was getting panning ratings because people thought it was too hard... So much so that I completely deleted it, and started over. And your level is way harder than that was. I still get people thinking my level has hard spots, even after I toned it way down. After I did that, the level got spotlighted. I think my "lost under glass" level is more cohesively challenging... But I put a lot of double spawn points in, so when people died in technical areas they wouldn't have to recover ground, as I didn't want them give up, and I really liked some cool details I put in. So in short (well, really in long as it seems I went on and on here, sorry)... I just don't want you to get trashed on your hardness, just because you want to be a purist. It would be a shame. As for the glass... I am ashamed to say, it is the first glass section of the middle level. I got passed it, I just hated jumping on the slope constantly and missing the somewhat high step on it.

2009-02-28 03:39:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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This may seem like a slightly silly question: Do I need to delete the level to repuplish it, or can I edit it on the page? I see move, copy, and delete as options, but not edit....

2009-02-28 04:45:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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I did not make it through your level. After several plays, I found myself getting killed by the same piece of lightning infected material on the middle path. And since there were a bit too many things in the level that bugged me at the time (like having to go over somewhat long distances of certain areas over and over again) I figured I would wait until you tweeked the level a bit. Which piece is this? Is this with the sleds?

2009-02-28 04:49:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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Just do what you did before to publish it - from your moon.... And just pic the exact same spot you did before, and it will publish over it.

2009-02-28 05:11:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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Level has been updated... I hope this update makes it better

2009-03-01 06:58:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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I am surprised that you aren't getting more feedback here... I played your level several more times... And a few observations before I get on with my comments... I noticed that it seems that you are the only one to have beaten the level... And that should tell you something. If the level is hard for you, then it will be insanely hard for other people... And for the most part, people really aren't going to play levels that even after several tries they can't beat... You know where all the moves are supposed to be, they don't. And I would hate for you to get panned in the reviews because they are peeved about it. Anyway, onto my comments: I noticed you made a bunch of changes, and that is good. The thing I have noticed after having played your level at least a dozen times that you have it set up with and insanely narrow window for error. A lot of your areas would be a challenge even if you made them easier. Take the bombs section on the lower run... There is an amazingly narrow window to squeeze that steep ramp and get down to the safe platforms. After this you have two emitters pumping out electric blocks. I can get passed the first one but the second one I cannot... When I jump, because the jump is tall, and the window of time is so short, I find my sackboy tripping on the step I am trying to get to, and I die. Or on the middle run, you have that moving platform that takes you to the 4-platform wobble pole. I like the platform to 4-part pole. I just think that the electric beams make it more of a pain then most people will want to undertake. And I won't even bother trying to get to the top run - the window of opportunity to try to get it is just too small for me to want to bother. You really need to have someone you know who hasn't played the level before bang on it before you put it up an see what is too hard. Another option, is to make an easier level with a key at the end to win you the harder level. Gives them the opportunity to play it, get a feel for it, and then go to the harder one after they are a little familiar for some real rewards. Aside from that, I noticed that you have a lot of dark matter and emitters showing. A lot of people on this board are going to give you grief for that. Anyway... I enjoy the level - even though I can't beat it yet - and look forward to hitting it up again after you tweek it again

2009-03-04 16:37:00 Author: dobi6 Posts: 359

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There is a 3 second margin for error on the bomb section. Would this be to short? I feel it is fine, and have seen people online make it while playing with me... One of the things my roomate observed about lbp is that how hard you tap x dictates how high you jump. This plays in to two of our sections. On the 4-platform wobble pole, the first bit of electricity cant be jumped over, it must be jumped under. Same thing with the falling electric blocks. If you are jumping slightly and not to high, you will jump to the exact height and then a quck jump will get you up past the block of doom. As for the electric beam on the moving platform, it is really quite easy to get past. Dont move and you will naturally duck under it. Anyways, will look into simplifying it further.... We have managed to take 10 diffrent people through the level and they have completed undividual parts of it. However none of them can complete it by themselves... So I think that some more adjustments may be needed... As for the dark matter and the emitters... I think most of the emiters are covered, I am not sure which are still visable. The dark matter - how would you hide that? Anyways, thanks for the feedback, it is nice to have at least one person do so...

2009-03-05 04:42:00 Author: Tkdmaat Posts: 11

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