Archive: 39 posts

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Hey all! I've messed about a bit in the LBP3 beta and have made some preliminary bias conclusions. This game lacks new logic. It lacks a lot of new logic. I'm actually so disappointed with the lack of new logic, that I'm hardly playing the beta. Here's the deal, we've been given the wave generator and the remote microchip… cool; I see massive potential for both. But that's it… practically everything else is tweakers. I expected to go into this beta and make logic I couldn't in LBP2. But that's not the case. Here are a few examples that have been "left out": The delay switch, signal freezer, divider, tag rotator (rotates around a tag), linear tag/player sensor (senses a tag/player linearly instead of radially [x/y]), weight/mass sensor, rail-hook tweaker (tweaker that acts as a rail hook), and many more. Next are a few other concerns: You still can't tell sensors to detect specific players (player 1, 2, 3, 4). Decimal accuracy in analogue signals has gone down quite a bit (>.0001%). But whole numbers accuracy has increased (<100%). The ability to highlight a cable with the popit cursor and display it's current analogue signal is still not present. The Popit Power-ups highest potential use is for play-mode tutorials. Yet showing circuit boards in play mode was left out?! Simply tweaking a piece of logic does not deserve so many steps to rewind. Especially if rewinding stalls so long. You cannot specify "tag only" for stickiness. Explosives radius' cannot be altered. Nor can their sticker placement be disabled. I'm sure you guys can find quite a bit more issues with logic in the beta. Understand that this is all opinion. I merely expected more with the logic.

2014-10-24 05:22:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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Remember, a lot of the logic you see in the Beta may or may not be heavily altered before the full release of the game. The point of the Beta is to give feedback about the logic and stuff/bugs that may come along with it, so they can improve it before the final date. Nothing you see currently is final.

2014-10-24 05:45:00 Author: DominationMags Posts: 1840

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wow all of this is all great stuff, but the one thing everyone needs and craves as a logician (haha I love that term, never heard it before) is 0 latency analog to digital conversion, now, doing it with a sequencer, you add one tick every time, and workarounds are a pain a friend of mine mentioned it has been done in vita, but the same method is not present in the beta (0.0 on a timer) which doesn't make sense, as it would improve all logic with any amount of comparison involved just... we need 0 latency analog to digital conversion (0L ADC) all of these suggestions are amazing ideas, and definitely need to be added in here is another thread to take a look at (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=89473-What-new-types-of-logic-would-you-like-to-see&highlight=types+logic)

2014-10-24 06:29:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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wow all of this is all great stuff, but the one thing everyone needs and craves as a logician (haha I love that term, never heard it before) is 0 latency analog to digital conversion, now, doing it with a sequencer, you add one tick every time, and workarounds are a pain a friend of mine mentioned it has been done in vita, but the same method is not present in the beta (0.0 on a timer) which doesn't make sense, as it would improve all logic with any amount of comparison involved just... we need 0 latency analog to digital conversion (0L ADC) all of these suggestions are amazing ideas, and definitely need to be added in here is another thread to take a look at (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=89473-What-new-types-of-logic-would-you-like-to-see&highlight=types+logic) I have no idea what any of this means.

2014-10-24 14:10:00 Author: Biv Posts: 734

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What do you mean by Delay Switch and Divider ?

2014-10-24 14:24:00 Author: samalot Posts: 591

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Most of them you can make, but there just isn't an official tool for it. Like in lbp1 I was and still is possible to make, timers, or gates, and gates, counters, not gates and XOR gates. Possibly more. Don't give up! :hero: - - - - - - - - - - wow all of this is all great stuff, but the one thing everyone needs and craves as a logician (haha I love that term, never heard it before) is 0 latency analog to digital conversion, now, doing it with a sequencer, you add one tick every time, and workarounds are a pain a friend of mine mentioned it has been done in vita, but the same method is not present in the beta (0.0 on a timer) which doesn't make sense, as it would improve all logic with any amount of comparison involved just... we need 0 latency analog to digital conversion (0L ADC) all of these suggestions are amazing ideas, and definitely need to be added in here is another thread to take a look at (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=89473-What-new-types-of-logic-would-you-like-to-see&highlight=types+logic) Yeah I know exactly whut ur talking about...someone pls hep me

2014-10-24 14:37:00 Author: ZNBJ Posts: 181

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The ability to highlight a cable with the popit cursor and display it's current analogue signal is still not present. Try R2 on an output. wow all of this is all great stuff, but the one thing everyone needs and craves as a logician (haha I love that term, never heard it before) is 0 latency analog to digital conversion Doesn't the node's new bottom input do that? It's really easy to start making a list of everything that's not in LBP3, but there also a list of things that [I]are[/]. LBP2 had a huge leap in logic, so maybe they thought they'd focus on other areas for this game.

2014-10-24 16:44:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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What do you mean by Delay Switch and Divider ? A delay switch delays a signal that passes through it by a certain amount of time. And a divider divides 2 or more inputs mathematically.

2014-10-24 17:00:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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A delay switch delays a signal that passes through it by a certain amount of time. Can't you just do that with a timer? I'm pretty sure you can combine logic to do the second thing as well.

2014-10-25 00:12:00 Author: Biv Posts: 734

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Can't you just do that with a timer? I'm pretty sure you can combine logic to do the second thing as well. For binary inputs, sure. It might not be the easiest thing in the world to achieve but you can easily create some logic that uses greatest common divisor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_algorithm). Binary Division by Shift and Subtract (http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs1104/BuildingBlocks/divide.030.html), I dont expect you to understand that It isnt exactly clear... Actually, I am about to get my new capture card, so I could create a tutorial on this if anyone was interested? Of course, LBP is meant to be for all ages, so some more mathematical logic would be very welcome! The main problem is, that since most of the logic is digital, you would have to rely on these binary inputs. You can give people as much maths logic as you want, but if they dont understand how to create and input binary numbers to them... they arnt going to be much use.

2014-10-25 00:21:00 Author: samalot Posts: 591

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For binary inputs, sure. It might not be the easiest thing in the world to achieve but you can easily create some logic that uses greatest common divisor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_algorithm). Binary Division by Shift and Subtract (http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs1104/BuildingBlocks/divide.030.html), I dont expect you to understand that It isnt exactly clear... Actually, I am about to get my new capture card, so I could create a tutorial on this if anyone was interested? Of course, LBP is meant to be for all ages, so some more mathematical logic would be very welcome! The main problem is, that since most of the logic is digital, you would have to rely on these binary inputs. You can give people as much maths logic as you want, but if they dont understand how to create and input binary numbers to them... they arnt going to be much use. Well, I'm definitely quite...all ages...ahem...and I'm barely past the "press button, light turns on" stage.

2014-10-25 00:28:00 Author: Biv Posts: 734

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Can't you just do that with a timer? I'm pretty sure you can combine logic to do the second thing as well. you can do it with a timer, but its slow, which is the problem in the first place Doesn't the node's new bottom input do that? nope, that functions like an AND GATE, or an enable for a microchip, not a comparison

2014-10-25 01:02:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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Can't you just do that with a timer? Here's the problem. A timer does not delay a signal in it's pure form. The timer attempts to catch up to the incoming signal given the speed you tell it to move, which is a maximum of 0.1 seconds. This means that if you had a pulse of 100% in a 3rd of 0.1 seconds, the timer would only output 33.3333%. This is not a delay. The only way I could find a legitimate delay that didn't involve tags and tag sensors is through the use of the signal saver from "the creators toolkit." All a delay switch does is temporarily save a signal so that it can be outputted at later time. If you have multiple signal savers interpret a signal at different times sequentially, you can get a somewhat accurate delay. But even this isn't a true delay. You can notice the stutter of the transitioning signal savers at the .001% decimal. The point is, no signal delay exists or can be made that has true signal accuracy. It is one of many that cannot be made, that need to be officially implemented. I'm pretty sure you can combine logic to do the second thing as well. Yes, this can be done easily. But it's very useful, and large amounts of it is thermo intensive.

2014-10-25 02:54:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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looping a signal through a microchip like the example below makes it have a tick of delay DISCOVERED BY COOLMAN100 (well, to my knowledge, I dont know if he learned it from someone else) provides one tick of delay exactly link for more delay http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49423&d=1414205637

2014-10-25 03:56:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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Someone mentioned something about a 0.0 timer, but in LBP2, the timer goes down to 0.0.

2014-10-25 10:37:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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looping a signal through a microchip like the example below makes it have a tick of delay DISCOVERED BY COOLMAN100 (well, to my knowledge, I dont know if he learned it from someone else) provides one tick of delay exactly O_o Whoa! It works! But still, there's no reason for this tool to not be an official one. Same with the rest. A delay switch is very handy for certain applications. Having to go onto a forum or go through the painstaking trial-&-error as I'm sure many have gone through, isn't deserved by such a simple tool. It should simply be present. Along with ll the other tools I mentioned above. Guys, it isn't about whether or not you can already make it (just take a look at the wave generator). It's about its usefulness, and possibility of ease of use. @Roger The R2 function is amazing! It even shows signals above 100%! But it doesn't show any decimal places. And I think that's on purpose. Just try it: Multiply two 1% (.01) signals together (square them) to get a .01% (.0001). Then multiply your answer by an "A" to get a .000A% (.00000A)("A" needs to be a single digit percentage). Now you need to undo the process by multiplying by 10,000,000% (100,000). This should output A0% (.A). But it likely won't. Hook up a positional sequencer to visualize. To further make things odd, change the signal strength of "A" to even more single digit percentages, and you'll notice the outputting signal strength jumps around almost sporadically on the scale. Maybe I've done something wrong here? Because I recall LBP2 being more than capable of handling a decimal this small.

2014-10-25 19:03:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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There's almost nothing I have not been able to do with LBP2 logic, I also havent played the LBP3 beta. It would be nice to see some shortcut logic though, like a signal sensor that converts signal strengths into decimals, you can then use those numbers to activate tags etc, handy for everything! Speedo, healthbars, money inventory even level saving. The current array of logic to do this is thermo consuming and when you want a ton of them to log the player...

2014-10-25 20:15:00 Author: clarkdef Posts: 138

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There's almost nothing I have not been able to do with LBP2 logic, I also havent played the LBP3 beta. It would be nice to see some shortcut logic though, like a signal sensor that converts signal strengths into decimals, you can then use those numbers to activate tags etc, handy for everything! Speedo, healthbars, money inventory even level saving. The current array of logic to do this is thermo consuming and when you want a ton of them to log the player... The problem is only occasional that logic cannot be creates within the current parameters. Just look at the linear tag sensor. It comes in handy when making 3D levels that have rotating rooms. But is only made by manipulating radial tag sensors in a space consuming manner. If there were a tool that saved space for both the thermo and area, wouldn't you want it?

2014-10-25 22:24:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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Yes that was what I was saying, there needs to be shortcut logic. But apparently the thermo doesn't really matter in LBP3? Or so I heard.

2014-10-26 04:30:00 Author: clarkdef Posts: 138

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Of course, we have to remember that we're still in BETA. Remember the logic we had in the LBP2 beta, and compare that to LBP2 now. I'm sure they'll add plenty more logic to LBP3 as time goes on.

2014-11-03 10:37:00 Author: gurren009 Posts: 2592

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Of course, we have to remember that we're still in BETA. Remember the logic we had in the LBP2 beta, and compare that to LBP2 now. I'm sure they'll add plenty more logic to LBP3 as time goes on. Yep, and it would be ridiculous that the company that made LBPV would leave off logic that was extremely praised. There's definitely a lot of stuff that's not in the BETA.

2014-11-04 00:00:00 Author: koltonaugust Posts: 1382

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I wouldn't be surprised if we only saw 65-75% of LBP3's logic in the BETA.

2014-11-04 00:05:00 Author: gurren009 Posts: 2592

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Yes that was what I was saying, there needs to be shortcut logic. But apparently the thermo doesn't really matter in LBP3? Or so I heard. Thermo? We don't need no stinkin thermo! Ok we still do, but unless you have an insane amount of things running in one place then your hands are pretty much untied now.

2014-11-04 08:32:00 Author: Reef1978 Posts: 527

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I wouldn't be surprised if we only saw 65-75% of LBP3's logic in the BETA. Only 2 logic pieces and 65%-75%? (only counting actual logic, not tweakers and the such) that would be a dissapointment, but I'm sure the actual figures are something like 20%-30%

2014-11-04 08:56:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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Only 2 logic pieces and 65%-75%? (only counting actual logic, not tweakers and the such) that would be a dissapointment, but I'm sure the actual figures are something like 20%-30% I'd agree on the 20-30%. Although that's including tweakers not shown for me. There's no way they've shown us a big chunk of stuff!

2014-11-04 09:01:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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We know the filter chip wasn't in the beta (unless you grabbed it from someone's earth as I did), so clearly there ARE things we never had access to in the beta.

2014-11-04 12:48:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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I'm confused why a timer fails to be a delayer, can someone explain that again. Are you talking about analogue signals?

2014-11-04 18:27:00 Author: THE-73est Posts: 18

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I'm hoping that we only saw 20%-30% too. I'm hoping they add plenty of short cut logic, to make things much easier.

2014-11-04 19:00:00 Author: gurren009 Posts: 2592

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I noticed that circuit nodes had some new functionality, but I never took the time to figure out what it was for. But they're tweakable now, and they've got a bottom input.

2014-11-04 19:40:00 Author: Ryuhza Posts: 355

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IIRC they replace the old "microchip with just a node on it" combo that let you turn on and off an analogue signal running through it.

2014-11-04 19:45:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I noticed that circuit nodes had some new functionality, but I never took the time to figure out what it was for. But they're tweakable now, and they've got a bottom input. What are the tweakable options?

2014-11-04 20:16:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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I'm confused why a timer fails to be a delayer, can someone explain that again. Are you talking about analogue signals? Because timers don't relay all of the information stored in a signal, only digital

2014-11-04 23:55:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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Of course, we have to remember that we're still in BETA. Remember the logic we had in the LBP2 beta, and compare that to LBP2 now. I'm sure they'll add plenty more logic to LBP3 as time goes on. Most of it came with DLC and some of the essentials need purchasing such as the memorizer.

2014-11-05 00:02:00 Author: SEWO97 Posts: 637

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Because timers don't relay all of the information stored in a signal, only digital Alright Gotcha, like I said I thought maybe you were talking about analouge singnals.

2014-11-05 02:53:00 Author: THE-73est Posts: 18

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Most of it came with DLC and some of the essentials need purchasing such as the memorizer. I personally hated that. I'm fine if the logic fits with the DLC ands the DLCs purpose. But stuff like the memorized was harsh.

2014-11-05 03:20:00 Author: Bonnell7 Posts: 100

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I personally hated that. I'm fine if the logic fits with the DLC ands the DLCs purpose. But stuff like the memorized was harsh. I wonder if the new object saver will fix that.

2014-11-05 03:55:00 Author: gurren009 Posts: 2592

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I wonder if the new object saver will fix that. Possibly, but for certain applications the memorizer is hard to replace. I am currently building a level that I would like people to be able to leave and come back to. When they come back, I would like to save their progress and score. Since the memorizer is basically a bit register, it is the ideal choice for a binary scoring system. Throw in some adders and a double dabble, and you're set. With some clever setup, the only delay is the update tick for the display.

2014-11-20 09:43:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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Sadly, it turns out that we saw 90% to 100% of lbp3's logic in the beta. I kinda wish they added atleast 2 or 3 more logic pieces.

2014-11-28 20:30:00 Author: gurren009 Posts: 2592

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Sadly, it turns out that we saw 90% to 100% of lbp3's logic in the beta. I kinda wish they added atleast 2 or 3 more logic pieces. Yeeeaaah. So much for having high hopes that they wouldn't do that! 8U

2014-11-29 02:30:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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