Archive: 12 posts

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So I know there was thread somewhere that talks about them stuff, but I'm terrible at finding stuff, and not sure if it would answer some of my questions. But anyways, as some of you know I'm making a multiplayer RPG, but as I work on the sack Bot the more I worry about running out of room in each area. So far one sack Bot takes up 2 notches on the thermometer, and all four of them combined fills up half of the therm!! And that's not including any area to explore, the planned quest logic, enemies and weather effects. And to make matters worse, this level http://lbp.me/v/qsfcjgx had trouble loading parts so I got all those yellow exclamation marks....anyways questions time - are some good ways to lower the therm uses of logic? -how about other ways to lower the therm in general? -what usually causes the most lag in multiplayer? -does stickering materials waste a decent amount of therm? -how big of a level could I make using half the therm? (I want to make large open world sections) -What are some good ways to prevent the yellow !'s of death? -should I drop multiplayer and make it a single player experience to make more room for design? -what wastes the most therm when making a level? Sorry for all the questions, and sorry if these have been asked already, but thanks in advance!

2014-08-06 21:11:00 Author: SilverTriforce7 Posts: 183

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Optimize logic is what you have to do. Use systems that do what you need with the least parts. Repeated logic chips can potentially all stem from one chip that just remote triggers all other instances. To lower thermo, choose a few good materials and stick to them. Eliminate unnecessary corners in shapes and NEVER smear a shape, start with a block and use the corner editor to shape it. stickering is much more thermo efficient that using many materials/shapes. Multiplayer lag is mainly from complexity, as are the yellow warning signs. Again, reducing corners will help this a lot. half the thermo can go a long way if used properly, that's about how much I have set aside for areas in my RPG. I prefer single player for RPGs but most LBP2 players would disagree. Also, another tip is you can delete things and remind to determine what is eating up your thermometer.

2014-08-06 21:53:00 Author: Tynz21 Posts: 544

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Yes. Streamline your logic. It will help. Use fewer types of materials. You're better off using six different materials and stickering them to look different. As opposed to using 10 materials. Objects eat thermo and so do animated decorations and animated materials. Lights will eat thermo. Zooming the camera too wide will cause lag. Especially when combined with lights and moving objects. When building keep in mind that every point or "corner"will cost you. A circle takes up more thermo than a square.

2014-08-06 22:07:00 Author: one-mad-bunny Posts: 334

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1/4 of a thermo!? My most complicated sackbots, even the most complicated ones, only take up 1-1.3 notches. How much thermo does the sackboy take up if you remove the pop-up player menu? Lowering thermometer usage: Avoid using wires where possible; Even more importantly, avoid crossing wires from the sackbot to the controlinator transmitter. Seperate each function for the sackbot by placing more controlinators (set to recieve) on the sackbot's microchip. Use one controlinator for each function. For example, I usually have one for Emotion, Sprint, Flight, Acrobatics (Double Jump/Somersault), Transforming. Each text label for Tags add to the thermometer so try to use up all the colours before adding a new label. Custom Stickers don't add to the thermo; Collectable stickers and decorations do. Make your logic as simple as possible. If looks to complicated (for simple functions), it usually is! Minimize all microchips to and enter 'preview mode' to get a better idea of the thermo and stability. You can see that I have used multiple controlinators for different functions on the transmitter (used for emmitors/attacks and external logic). It helps to label things appropriately. I have used two hologram followers (one is set to receive) as on it is important for the transforming logic to be upright and the aiming logic does not rotate it. http://i.imgur.com/8TvypBc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/v67M1ex.jpg An expanded view of the transforming logic, note that this the sackbot has three modes but the first and third one can only be accessed through the second one. http://i.imgur.com/YsdflH4.jpg The attacks will only work depending on which mode it is in. This is done through tag sensors and not wires. http://i.imgur.com/LmQ8RTd.jpg The sackbot's chip, note the bad example of labeling. Each controllinator takes up barely any thermo. Opening the chips will make the thermo rise temporarily. http://i.imgur.com/Up68mQ1.jpg An expanded view of the emotion logic, used to replicate sackboy's emotions. Microchips can cross over in the second layer but only use the outputs of this controlinator. It's better to place a new controlinator than to have wires linking to together. http://i.imgur.com/OqonBaE.jpg This performs a double jump with a somersault on the second jump. Instead of using sequencers, I have used timers and and gyroscopes to rotate the sackboy. Note that there is one for left and one for right with a reversed order. This should easily be adaptable for the rolling logic if your current logic looks significantly more complex. http://i.imgur.com/vYpqgya.jpg If you need any of my logic, I can give it/send it to you via PSN, just message me or send a friend request - credit prefered, in some format, but not needed. If you want to join me, I should be able to adapt the somersault to roll instead if you need it. All my logic is saved so it can be placed straight on a microchip without needing to detach it from any material. Answers to other questions: Lag in multiplayer is usually caused by the players themselves. Each player is connected/synced to the server so everyone shares the same connection speed, meaning, if someone has a bad connection, everyone else's connection will also be slowed. There isn't much you can do to prevent this other than impose a 2 player limit. The more players in a party, the higher the chance of crashing upon load as each player has to load the level at the same time. If players have many decorations/stickers on their costumes (a lot of people use lots of teeth decorations for 'emo' hair), this can clutter the screen, reduce the framerate, give you the the 'yellow !' - making stickers/decorations invisible and rarely, it will crash the game. The only thing you can do is avoid using to many different decorations and place them cleverly to minimise usage. Custom stickers and community stickers do not add to thermo but can still give the problem above. As big as you want. Stick to the same material types (less than 20, aim for 10) and use stickers instead if you have to. Avoid using three different types of glass for example. Using too many types of collected stickers, decorations, materials, objects or gameplay objects is what raises the thermo. Try to use custom/community objects and stickers instead. Using actual water (no matter how deep, etc.) will also add a lot to the thermo. Hope this helps!

2014-08-06 23:26:00 Author: wally-217 Posts: 521

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For logic, what you want to do is to take constants and try to use them repeatedly as often as possible (have one central 100% battery that stems out to where its needed) Less sub chips will work fine as well, and the thermo will lower Make sure that your combiners and splitters are used efficiently, because these pieces are the ones that can usually be optimized Using disabled chips instead of and gates can be more efficient in some cases, but requires a digital input Opening logic that has lots of gates and wirepathing in it will temporarily increase thermo for the time it is open, so dont keep logic open when testing in play, or adding fine details that lag will make harder to add Use sequencers to compare, because although they have latency, they are much less thermo Overall trade time for thermo when possible with your logic (latency but efficiency is fine when having enormous amounts of logic) hope this helped you with your logic thermo

2014-08-07 00:22:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=73706-Artistic-Levels-without-Lag have a read of this

2014-08-07 04:49:00 Author: JKY Posts: 119

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A circle takes up more thermo than a square. But only barely, at least in LBP1. There seems to be some sort of optimisation shortcut for circles, because once you start editing the circle it does increase the thermo a lot.

2014-08-07 12:13:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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But only barely, at least in LBP1. There seems to be some sort of optimisation shortcut for circles, because once you start editing the circle it does increase the thermo a lot. In one of my levels I changed accumulating emitted objects from circles to squares and saved almost a full thermo slot. In this case we are talking about over 100 moving objects. Every point adds up. Maybe in my case the moving made a difference. Don't get me wrong, I don't discriminate against circles. Actually I'm quite fond of them. I was only trying to point out that the game remembers shapes by remembering the points or corners, so the more points the more memory it takes. At least that is what I was told and it seems to be true. :-)

2014-08-07 23:00:00 Author: one-mad-bunny Posts: 334

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- are some good ways to lower the therm uses of logic? Generally all the suggestions in this thread will help, although, your thermo woes seem to be coming strictly from the Sackbots themseleves.I dont think the emit/destroy technique is being used quite effectively here. Sackbots should never take that much thermometer. The first thing you want to watch are costumes. This almost killed my RPG. Consult a costume expert or experment and find out how much those are taking and then edit them to give you some more room. I am guessing the effects are actually on the sackbot...and probably logic too. As a rule of thumb, I never place logic on a sackbot unless it is strictly for movement of the bot or animation. Effects and other logic should not be on the sackbot. You will have much more flexibility placing effects and logic to a microchip that follows the sackbot. Effects can eat up thermo, even if they seem small. I would place effects on invisible emitters and place those inside an emitter on a microchip following sackboy. (This can also give you wiggle room with creating animations. Ex. You can flip sackboy and still have effects coming from the same angles and not being influenced by the rotation of sackboy). -what usually causes the most lag in multiplayer? High thermo. Do not go over 75 percent. I have never built a multiplayer level, but remember that costumes of the players add to the levels complexity and the higher the thermo gets, the more lag occurs and chances are players will begin disconnecting. This is what others have said at least. -does stickering materials waste a decent amount of therm? I use a ton of Sticker panel in my level. I dont notice any cost from stickering material. Not saying it isnt there, but its minuscule compared to everything else. More thermo is consumed from general logic. Stickering actually saved me thermo space--particularly when it comes to backgrounds. -how big of a level could I make using half the therm? (I want to make large open world sections) You can make a level as big as you want to using the emit destroy technique. What this is, simply implies if you no longer need an object, you delete it and re-emit it when you need it back. Enviornment, sackbot, logic, you name it, you get rid of it. Every object is saved in an emitter and emitted from another emitter. This can be dangerious, so dont over due it! This does mean you want your level completely wireless. This can be more complex in a multiplayer RPG and we may need more information on how exactly this level will work in terms of freedom for all the players and how the camera will work to for E/D. My suggestion is to make it like Dragons Crown, where once a player zones( or switches maps) all the players travel to the next map. You want to build your RPG, like a real one. It will work well here. -What are some good ways to prevent the yellow !'s of death? Space out objects. Actually, if you got a clip of my RPG and you got a glimsp of the underwater city, at a different camera angle, there would be a ton of exclamation points. Sometimes fiddling with the camera to different shots can get those pesky exclamation points out of the way. -should I drop multiplayer and make it a single player experience to make more room for design? I personally do not think LBP is built for long term multiplayer RPG titles--especially if you cannot find a way for all the players to save their progress, which is tedious just thinking about it. Unless its like Star Ocean where the players will just be joining player ones game. This seems like a personal question. You have to understand with more players, you will have to accommodate how much more thermo will cost. Thats four times the action occuring at once that you will normally have in single player. I personally, wont touch multiplayer until LBP3, simply because I do like having better frame rates and its easier on the thermo. Multiplayer has its benefits, but it doesnt make every project better and thats something you as the creator has to decide. Frozen Flame was a brilliant level, so multiplayer can turn out awesome with some work. -what wastes the most therm when making a level? It depends on your level. Over complicated logic, not using E/D, Sackbots and their costumes, complexity of shapes. Probably every problem could fit into one of those categories. Your main issue sounds the sackbots.

2014-08-11 23:05:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Here is my proposed solution for the saving. Make any statistics, levels, items, etc. entirely dependant on player one. If there is an inventory, it has to be shared. Then all other players just mirror player one in skills and levels. Unless they come out with memorizer player discrimination, that's the best you'll get.

2014-08-11 23:51:00 Author: Tynz21 Posts: 544

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Here is my proposed solution for the saving. Make any statistics, levels, items, etc. entirely dependant on player one. If there is an inventory, it has to be shared. Then all other players just mirror player one in skills and levels. Unless they come out with memorizer player discrimination, that's the best you'll get. You may be on to something with that. How would the loading would work though, since it only reads off player one? It sounds like you would lose your inventory data when going to a second game. Unless you created maybe a second memorizer just for multiplayer and you could transfer items over after a multiplayer session back to the single player character. Thats not a bad idea actually.

2014-08-12 01:56:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Here is my proposed solution for the saving. Make any statistics, levels, items, etc. entirely dependant on player one. If there is an inventory, it has to be shared. Then all other players just mirror player one in skills and levels. Unless they come out with memorizer player discrimination, that's the best you'll get. That it kinda what I've been doing...except I get it easy because I'm dropping the level up feature for my game, and the only thing you get is new abilities, weapons, spells and armor, and theirs only one save for those, each player can select their own equipment, but the memorizer is the same for everyone.

2014-08-12 04:37:00 Author: SilverTriforce7 Posts: 183

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