Archive: 29 posts

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Hey looking for some help here with a small problem. I have a rotating structure which I want to attach some inanimate creatures to. Each creature has a brain and a paint switch that triggers its destruction. Right now each creature is attached to the rotor by rod... however this causes the brains to be associated with the rotor, and therefore nothing "dies" until all the creatures are killed off (at which point they all die at once). What I need to be able to do is have the creatures destroyed one by one without affecting the backing structure or the other creatures. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

2009-02-18 20:29:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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hmm im not sure about this, technically if there glued to the rotating platform, they all count as part of the same creature... if possible try to make the structure without attaching the creatures, so that they are independant... if this wont work (it flips all the way over or whatever) Im not sure what to tell you.. if It doesnt rotate all the way you could try using rubber to creat more friction so the creatures dont slide or anything, other than that im not sure.

2009-02-18 20:35:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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You could try, instead of gluing the creatures to the structure, adding the smallest possible square of dark matter through each creature so that they remain separate to the structure but stay still. Also if you make the dark matter small enough then it will barely effect the looks of your creatures.

2009-02-18 20:42:00 Author: S-A-S--G-U-N-R Posts: 1606

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They aren't glued. They are connected by rods, which *should* make them act independently. And dark matter in this case will not work, because the idea is that the critters (sentry turrets) rotate along with the superstructure. Unfortunately there's not really any way around having them connected to the backing structure somehow. I can experiment with adding explosives... that might help break them apart.

2009-02-18 20:42:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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yea you could try explosives.. but rods are connections.. they cant be connected in any way, rods string bolts glue anything... I would try, if the super structure doesnt rotate at an extreme angle.. have the bottoms of the turrets, and the layer there resting on made of rubber... then just sit them down.. this could work, and you could sticker the rubber to make it not look like crap.

2009-02-18 20:47:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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Why don't you glue the turrets to a small layer of dissolving glued to the structure, so the dissolving can dissolve separately (with a switch) just 1 hit before the death of the single turret, making the creature a separate structure just before dieing. Didn't tried out but it may works...

2009-02-18 20:54:00 Author: Miglioshin Posts: 336

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They aren't glued. They are connected by rods, which *should* make them act independently. And dark matter in this case will not work, because the idea is that the critters (sentry turrets) rotate along with the superstructure. Unfortunately there's not really any way around having them connected to the backing structure somehow. I can experiment with adding explosives... that might help break them apart. Maybe, glue dissolve onto the area where the rods would be connected and have a magnetic key on the creature and a magnetic switch on the ground near to it. Then make it so that when you jump on the creature brain it wil destroy the magnetic key (somehow) and activate the switch. This will cause the dissolve to dissapear if the switch has been set to reverse and it will disconnect the creatures from each other.

2009-02-18 20:55:00 Author: S-A-S--G-U-N-R Posts: 1606

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Is there a way you could make some invisible cage attached to your rotating structure? Or just some supports? Another option: I understand your creatures are on some rotating thing but do they need to actually rotate themselve? Can't they be place on rotating ends of your rotating device? Remember this boss in Super Mario World? http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1175404380-01.png .

2009-02-18 21:03:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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The picture hasn't worked

2009-02-18 21:13:00 Author: S-A-S--G-U-N-R Posts: 1606

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It's on mobygames. maybe the link itself would work? http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1175404380-01.png .

2009-02-19 00:01:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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It makes sense that the bad guy would destroy the wheel because anything you attach a brain to is seen as part of the enemy. If you put a piston, bolt, rope, rod, anything... gluing will present the same problems, as well. All of it will be seen as included as part of the brain. So what you need to do is separate them somehow. Here is how I would probably go about doing it: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=276&pictureid=2306 The stuff in green is in the same layer By creating a bracket for your monster in the manner shown, you'll be able to keep it in the preferred position without having to destroy the background. (of course you would use something other than a circle to ensure stability, perhaps a hexagon) Simply create an object, then take out the middle of that object, and put in your "pin" so that the monster is pinned to the circle without being attached to it. The only thing I can see being a problem here is gravity and physics, but if you use the right materials, it probably won't be an issue. I hope this helps! Sorry for the craptacular picture... I hate mspaint : (

2009-02-19 01:25:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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It's on mobygames. maybe the link itself would work? http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1175404380-01.png . Still doesn't work for me.

2009-02-19 01:34:00 Author: S-A-S--G-U-N-R Posts: 1606

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This could work, too: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=276&pictureid=2307 Green and red are in the same layer, but everything green is glued to the blue thin layer behind it, where the red is just resting on the green stuff.

2009-02-19 01:38:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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Still doesn't work for me. ****. Google "Reznor Mario World". lol The boss was called Reznor. .

2009-02-19 02:08:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Thanks for the replies, guys. I'll mess around with some of these ideas and report back with results. This is one of the few bugs remaining to be worked out before the beta is published, so hopefully it doesn't take too long to figure out.

2009-02-19 02:10:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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I don't think it's a bug, I think it's just game mechanics... it makes sense that rods and ropes and such would be considered part of the monster... think about if they weren't... Then when you killed a monster, a lot of extraneous crap would just start lying about. I think it's more of something we have to just keep in mind when creating, rather than something that's a bug in the game.

2009-02-19 02:19:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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Sorry... I was referring to the fact that its a bug in my level, not the game mechanics. Here's what I find strange though. Other turrets consisting of a rotating "gun piece" mounted by wobble bolt to a container don't have the same issues effecting them. Mount a brain to the rotating gun piece, and when you shoot it, the gun piece dissolves leaving the backing plate intact. So my question is why are these rods behaving differently? Here is the setup: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3291197913_8e21f2ff80.jpg Green blocks are the sentries in the foreground layer. The blue structure represents in the backpiece in the background layer. The green sentries are connected to the blue structure by rod only, they are not glued. What I suspect happens with other turrets is that the backing plates are usually affixed to some small piece of dark matter that forces a breakpoint in the brain-creature recognition algorithm. I imagine that if I changed the backing plate to dark matter that the sentries would break off as I'm trying to do. But, obviously, since the entire blue structure is rotating, carrying the sentries with it, this can't happen. What I suspect will be required is to connect the sentries and backing plate by invisible dissolve instead. Then, perhaps, the creature will detach from the structure before the brain destruction occurs.

2009-02-19 02:34:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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If they are connected to the wheel at all, the wheel will still be encompassed in the creature... I don't understand why bracketing them in place wont work. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? You're still saying that your creature brains are attached to your structure via a rod... which would totally explain why it's failing.

2009-02-19 02:48:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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Yes, that is why its failing, obviously. I was hoping to find some intuitive way around this problem that didn't involve loose brackets which could cause sporadic breakage/crunches. Perhaps you're right though and this is the only alternative. Running an extensive playtest over several hours could show whether sporadic breaks are likely to occur. Dark matter appears to circumvent this issue, as proven time and time again with static entities. However, I can't seem to find a similar solution for moving entities. Neither dissolve blocks or explosives seem to be able to separate the sentries' connection, even when triggered along with the brain. UPDATE: Ok, it's working now with loose brackets... I'll have to do a long test later to make sure nothing breaks them. Thanks for the help.

2009-02-19 04:37:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Oooooh, I see. It's not that you didn't understand what was wrong, it's that you wanted something more sturdy and stable. I'm sorry I misunderstood. In that case, why don't you try creating a second ring contained within your wheel sectioned off. That way these pieces are okay to be destroyed, and since they are not connected to the wheel (but stuck in there real real good), the wheel wont blow out, too. Kind of like this: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=276&pictureid=2319 I think that would work way better than my previously suggested methods!

2009-02-19 13:24:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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That's fairly similar to what I ended up doing. You were right - there's no way to forcefully attach them and have the system work as intended, without dark matter. So a tightly fitting loose bracket is what I ended up using... like this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/3293171872_c651039430.jpg The bracket (gray) was made by deleting and replacing a small square inside a larger square, for a perfectly snug fit, then cutting that entire unit in half vertically. The entire bracket was then specifically glued to the blue ring. The darker gray piece was then detached, and specifically glued to the sentry on the adjacent plane. No rods or anything, just snug plug-in sockets. I'm just hoping that the natural tendency for things to microshift in the editor doesn't end up eating the dark grey plugs... that's really the only thing that could go wrong. I'll have to keep an eye out for sporadic "crunches" and create with the volume up.

2009-02-19 15:50:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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This could work, too: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=276&pictureid=2307 Green and red are in the same layer, but everything green is glued to the blue thin layer behind it, where the red is just resting on the green stuff. Just what I was thinking.. Lock it in place without actually gluing it down... it should work, and isn't overly complicated!!

2009-02-19 15:57:00 Author: Pitcard Posts: 779

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I don't personally use the creature brains for this kind of thing - I generally just build each individual creature as dissolve and trigger it to disappear. This also triggers a single piece of dissolve to disappear on a permenant switch so that when all creatures have dissolved, it can destroy the main object.

2009-02-19 19:13:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I don't personally use the creature brains for this kind of thing - I generally just build each individual creature as dissolve and trigger it to disappear. This also triggers a single piece of dissolve to disappear on a permenant switch so that when all creatures have dissolved, it can destroy the main object. But then they've got no character, man! Poor creatures, being pushed to the wayside. You should be ashamed, CCubage.

2009-02-19 20:17:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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But then they've got no character, man! Poor creatures, being pushed to the wayside. You should be ashamed, CCubage. Yeah, I don't like to create things that are smarter than me. No, really - for this kind of design I would use 1 brain that would trigger when the other objects were destroyed by using dissolve. Would be a lot prettier if I could use the cow glitch, though.... (hint MM)

2009-02-19 20:56:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Maybe in this instance that might work better, but there's definitely merit to understanding the method that inspectigater is using here; there are some applications where you need to do things this way.

2009-02-19 21:26:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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There would have been nothing stopping me from switching to dissolve. There is a lot you can accomplish using homemade stickers that are nothing more than screencaps of different textures. So that block of dissolve can always be made to look like another texture at a glance. Unless you are attaching special objects to your creatures, ccubbage's method works pretty well. But, I do like how individual creature brains award you with points. I consider it incentive to stick your neck out while playing.

2009-02-19 22:52:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Glue some score bubbles to the dissolve?.. Lol nevermind just wanted to throw that in there.. I did that before, Had a creature that didnt work well with brains (but I didnt really know what I was doing then) so I had them hanging from a track overhead, and made completely from dissolve.. when you killed them all the dissove would dissappear, and the 6 or 7 point bubbles hanging from the top would drop down for you... wasnt perfect but it worked for what I needed it for at the time.

2009-02-20 02:37:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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Mister Guide, Have you thought of connecting the creatures to the wheel using a dovetail joint (like carpenters use)? A joint like this doesn't involve glueing or otherwise permanently fixing the objects that have to be joined. In other words, the objects remain independent according to LBP physics, but they still move about together like they were glued. If you google for "dovetail joint" you'll know what I mean. Its fairly easy to construct in grid.

2009-02-21 13:17:00 Author: Wonko the Sane Posts: 109

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