Archive: 10 posts

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I'm working on a project where I will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 numbers displayed. Most of them will be two digit numbers with a few being one or three. I've built most of the calculations using analog signals, and that's easy enough. My problem is that these numbers are mostly the result of calculations, and will need to be generated and displayed on demand. As I recall, displaying analog values as decimal numbers can be quite a convoluted process involving sequencers and a good deal of logic. Generating the values is much more thermo friendly than binary, but given the display requirements, is it really saving anything in this instance? Is generating a numeric display for analog values efficiently, possible?

2014-06-17 05:32:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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Well, the easiest I've been able to do it myself is about .2 of a notch of thermo, not the whole thermo, just a notch, so .4 for 2 digits, not too much but .4 * 20 = 8, that may be a bit too high for what you need, if I were you, I would find a way to display values inaccurately, like a timer, or different hues of an object, incredibly low thermo, and should work for things like health, and ammo But if you really need it to be displayed accurately, then I would just have set numbers to display if possible (I.E, a tag that says turn on 15) BUT IF IT IS TRULY NOT POSSIBLE TO DISPLAY ANY OTHER WAY, then you will either have to deal with the 8 bars of thermo, OR use the same display various times to get .4 thermo OR just reduce your quantity of whatever 20 is to lower if possible If all else fails, then just deal with the 8 bars of thermo, because display of 20 calculated numbers in analogue values won't work in lower thermo you can do it very low thermo with binary, but you will not be able to read it as easily You can get a low thermo Binary and Analogue probe HERE (http://lbp.me/v/qpwpcd9) (made it myself ) If you could find a lower thermo probe though, I would use that instead (hope this helps you tdarb)

2014-06-17 05:49:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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Hmm...that's what I was afraid of. The calculations use fewer components with analog, but if displaying the numbers is going to require that much thermo, then I may as well use binary. I can do a 4 digit number including ripple adder and Binary to Decimal converter for just a little over what it sounds like it will take to display a 2 digit analog. I was hoping to use analog mainly because I haven't used it much, but I guess if you need any sort of display it's not the best choice. Thanks. I queued up your probe, and will check it out when I get home.

2014-06-17 15:47:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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Another possible solution would be to only update each number every 2 seconds. Then you could use a single converter that cycles through all the numbers. It may also be possible to only update the numbers only when they change value - again, using a single converter. It all depends on how often your numbers change value and how much latency you'd find acceptable.

2014-06-17 18:58:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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Thanks fluxlasers. That's an interesting idea. I am working on a yahtzee level, so the numbers just need to be calculated after each roll. Using a sort of roving converter is an interesting idea. That's something well worth looking at. In this case, I don't think it would add a lot of latency, maybe 20-30 clock cycles between rolls, which could be acceptable if timed right. I'll just have to see where I am on thermo when I get further into building the display elements. Certainly worth looking at. I was thinking of doing something similar for adding players 2-4. I just copied the level and set up the scoring calculations in binary. It uses substantially more thermo up front than the analog did, but it will probably pay off when setting up the display elements. It now uses two notches of thermo for the calculations, where the analog setup had only about a half a notch (if that). There's probably some stuff I can trim out though. So far I have the dice built and, the calculations done using both analog and binary. Still not sure which system will end up working out better. I may finish the level out both ways for comparison. Next will be building the scorecard, and adding the number elements. I think that may be the make or break point for either system. Still curious if anyone has found a better system for displaying analog values.

2014-06-17 20:01:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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One way to reduce thermo cost is to be sure your numbers are made up of stickers rather then material based shapes. You can get stickers from the game itself or make your own. I wish they would update LBP2 with the notepad extras from the Vita version. They let you send that analog signal to them and it will output a number so no need to make your own number displays. But heres hoping they bring that to LBP3 at least.

2014-06-18 06:26:00 Author: Zohnar Posts: 30

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One way to reduce thermo cost is to be sure your numbers are made up of stickers rather then material based shapes. How would I go about that if I need the numbers to change depending on the calculation? Would it involve 10 emitters for each digit, or is there an easier way? In other news, I got the DC Premium Pack with the memorizer. Since this is essentially a bit register with a persistent memory, it may help with saving values. If I have several on the same level, can they store different values? It seems like a great tool, but if I need to use a tag for each unique value, it loses its advantage in this case.

2014-06-20 02:14:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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I just made something that might interest you. I'm making a level where the players go through several mini games. After each game I needed to display the players rank. I awarded 1 to 4 points based on first to fourth place. The logic and display was pretty complicated... Until I came up with this solution. I made sticker panel numbers 0-9. Then wired the outputs of a selector to them. Then I copied it, making a display that can go up to 99. In my case it counts 1, 2, 3, or 4. It does this by a sequencer with the corresponding number of tags on it. Basically 4 different sequencers. A tag sensor is wired into the cycle input of the selector and the first output of the first selector is wired to the cycle input of the tens selector. I don't know if this helps. I probably made this sound confusing, but it really is simple. You might be able to modify this concept to what you need. I like it because the logic for the math and display are the same and are simple.

2014-06-20 03:03:00 Author: one-mad-bunny Posts: 334

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How would I go about that if I need the numbers to change depending on the calculation? Would it involve 10 emitters for each digit, or is there an easier way? Basically just make your numbers out of material like normal but then give them say a black or white background depending on what background they will have to begin with and take a picture of it. You can also just use sticker numbers present in the popit itself. Then you just have a square material with the sticker of the number on it. 10 square sticker material with each number on them. Then just have the number outputs go directly to the correct number. Make sure they go transparent when not getting a signal and then lay all the materials ontop of each other. Now you have a set of numbers for the price of 10 squares. See thermo relies on how many corners an object has no matter what material it is. Being that sticker material itself is the least impactive material as well as the one you need, helps with this. If you were to make all your numbers out of just material that would make a lot of corners that add to the thermo.

2014-06-20 20:24:00 Author: Zohnar Posts: 30

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one-mad-bunny. Made complete sense the fifth time I read it. j/k nice suggestion. Thanks for the help. Zohnar, gotcha. I haven't played with the sticker panel much so wasn't sure if it had a sort of cycle input on it to enable sets of stickers on one panel. Still need 10 panels, but the reduced number of vertices saves thermo. Plus, don't need to fool with a 7 segment display, emitters, or holo material. It's a much more elegant solution than the 7 segment displays I had in mind. Now, for the first time in years I get to charge up the old Move controller so I can make some number and letter stickers using the paint tool. FWIW - In regards to the original question. I think I've settled on binary. With cut and dry numbers like this, it seems the more sensible solution. It also fits perfectly with the memorizer which will save trouble when setting and storing the values in the score blocks. If I were doing more comparative calculations (adding/removing life, damage, etc), I'd probably feel differently. Analog systems seem better suited for that sort of thing.

2014-06-20 21:50:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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