Archive: 33 posts

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Okay, somebody explain this to me: When I originally published The Uncanny Contraption, it was somewhat broken and only worked about 25% of the time, which is not nearly constant enough for the purposes of a level that plays itself. The broken version managed to get a grand total of 8 hearts in the first 30 minutes, plus it managed over 100 plays and was rated an average of 4/5 stars. IN THE FIRST 30 MINUTES ON A LEVEL THAT HARDLY WORKED PROPERLY. I deleted the level, and republished about 2 hours later. The "fixed" version now has about a 90+% probability of success, and is generally shinier. I've left it up for a little over a week now. It has a grand total of 3 hearts, about 40+ plays and an average of 3/5 hearts......after a week. So I have to ask, what the hell man? Broken level = 8 hearts, 158 plays, 4/5 rating - grand total of 40-50 minutes Fixed level = 3 hearts, 47 plays, 3/5 rating - 1 week and about 3 days. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. The only logical explanation I could think of was that the general populace of people in LBP are intentionally looking and playing only the STUPID BAD LEVELS. Which, in all categories of logic, makes no sense whatsoever. If anyone wants to submit any ideas as to why this is, please do so.

2009-02-14 23:13:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Answer: Purple is Black while Yellow only comes in during the 25th hour of every other Monday. You probably know what I'm trying to say...

2009-02-14 23:17:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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Answer: Purple is Black while Yellow only comes in during the 25th hour of every other Monday. You probably know what I'm trying to say... That would be a reasonable theory, but it had no fire penguins, and is therefore invalid.

2009-02-14 23:20:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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That would be a reasonable theory, but it had no fire penguins, and is therefore invalid. Oh darn! But seriously. It just doesn't make sense, from what you've said at least. Sigh... It does really sadden me to see this kind of thing, I guess we just have to wait a few months until all the bad seeds leave LBP and we have all the good creators still... creating.

2009-02-14 23:28:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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Here's what happened: the first time, a 6 year old child played it, exited, and randomly hit a star rating on the way out. After that, a whole bunch of other children tried it, exited, and left the star ratio put there by the first thild. The 2nd time you published it, another 6 year old child randomly selected 3 hearts. After that, all the other children selected the star rating left by the previous child. (by the way, I get this scenario from watching my 6-year-old play little big planet.)

2009-02-15 00:57:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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It's not just the player base, it's also the creator base...in fact, probably half of LBP's players stink at rating/creating.

2009-02-15 01:02:00 Author: Sackdragon Posts: 427

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This is pretty much how I rate levels. 5 Star - If it'll make me play it again, that's it, no other exceptions. I don't care if it looked awesome, if it has the replayability to make me play/show it off to friends. Then it receives a 5 star. 4 Star - If it looks amazing, detailed and is fun for one time. 3 Star - Meh, it's okay. Needs a bit of work on the replay value and visualization. 2 Star - Wasn't good, usually levels with dark matter, one checkpoint all the way at the start so every time you die you have to begin all over... God I hate those type of levels... 1 Star - It sucked. *Of course, there is always exceptions, whenever I feel like the level was a 4 star, but the average star ratio is 3 star, I bump up my rating to 5 just to make it fair.

2009-02-15 02:09:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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We as fellow creators have the responsibility to properly rate and tag levels as we see them, not as the general public deems fit. I believe it also our responsibility to tell the other players about eh importance of rating. I don't know, maybe I'm just doomed to never earn the create trophy.

2009-02-15 02:29:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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if you really want the create trophy just make a ramp clone and stamp H4H all over the place and you should be fine... Me im beyond the point where I care at all what the average LBP player thinks... lot of people will rate down if they cant beat your level (like its my fault that you suck) soo yea since most people dont really know what there doing I only really care about the opinions of other creators... Hate to go to my level and see a comment like "I heartd u, pls heart my levels n creatr" then I go to the level and its crap.. Just feel like no im not hearting that crap, take your heart back if its that important to you, but your not getting a heart from me... but yeah the most appealing coarse to the average player is sadly ramp, anything more than that and there not interested.

2009-02-15 02:39:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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You need to understand only one thing in life. The masses are stupid. But seriously.... they are. Okay seriously seriously. People don't take rating levels, leaving tags, or hearting very seriously at all. It's never going to get fixed or change. It's annoying but we all have to learn to accept it. I just got my first H4H posted in my comments section of my "Studio" level tonight.. I just completely ignored it. I don't plan on hearting this creator for the sake of hearting... that's just a little pathetic in my mind. The majority of players out there don't care enough to take creating seriously... which is why this forum is full of so many creators. We just have nowhere else to go because we are the few who have anything LBP related in common with each other when it comes to the games general audience. Wanna' know how they think in general? I played a level yesterday and one of the prizes for completing the level was a scoreboard... which as we all know, everyone has already. How lame is that!? The masses... are... stupid. Period. We all rock here though.

2009-02-15 11:18:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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It just depends when you publish it

2009-02-15 20:37:00 Author: Pinchanzee Posts: 805

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I play regularly with a 13 year old who is in love with "dumb" levels. I think it's the age group (not all of them - I'm making a generality - no offense meant to 13 year old's out there.) He tends to rate levels very high if they are weird or gross in some way... Not my idea of a great level but it's what he likes.

2009-02-15 20:42:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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Here's what happened: the first time, a 6 year old child played it, exited, and randomly hit a star rating on the way out. After that, a whole bunch of other children tried it, exited, and left the star ratio put there by the first thild. The 2nd time you published it, another 6 year old child randomly selected 3 hearts. After that, all the other children selected the star rating left by the previous child. (by the way, I get this scenario from watching my 6-year-old play little big planet.) you're spot on. my 1st level looks pretty, but looking back now, its not as good as my levels since. yet it has 4 stars and my tortuga level only has 3, despite the latter being the better level. i'm positive it's because the majority of people skip through the star award screen as quickly as they can. the martian level got lucky in that the 1st few people liked it, so it gets a 4 star rating.

2009-02-16 03:04:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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I've never gotten more than 3 stars... you're a lucky man. Wait... I did get 5 stars for the intentionally broken and completely retarded Son of Ramp level I had published for a week. It was a parody, obviously and it was the most ridiculous, god awful level anybody could ever make... it somehow got to 5 stars and stayed there til I deleted it to make room for something. I don't think anyone took it as a joke either.

2009-02-16 05:18:00 Author: Unknown User

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Wow, if broken levels get that much in 30 minutes, I wanna see a level of nothing get like a million plays. With this trend, it could happen.

2009-02-16 05:36:00 Author: Solisdrive Posts: 57

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It all depends on the people playing and the time you publish it. Obviously if you publish your level on a Monday it's not going to get nearly as many plays if you post it on a Sunday... Also, if the person happens to like the level, they will heart it most likely. Makes sense?

2009-02-16 05:39:00 Author: Unknown User

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Terry Pratchett summarised it perfectly: The intelligence of a group is inversly related to the amount of people in it. Ratings are somewhat random, the default value popping to the present value is a bit of a problem if your initial rating is bad... It's not taken seriously either. Also don't forget that a level that was 4 stars, 3 months ago, might be 3 stars now. Levels are overall getting better so the bar raises with the week.

2009-02-16 09:13:00 Author: Wyth Posts: 263

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I posted the level on a Saturday originally, then Sunday for the reprint.

2009-02-16 10:08:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Well, I think it might have had someone like it and give it a high (4 or 5) star rating for the initial play. This just perpetuated itself. When people are looking for good levels, they look for high starred ones. As others have said, many people skip the rating thing and so it just goes to the previous one - which could be 4 or 5. People see it on the new level list and try it, seeing as it had a high rating, and then keep it there. This just snowballs into more plays. The second publish version might have had the initial opposite. Someone hated it, gave it a low rating initially (or even just defaulted it to 3 stars). What makes your level different to other new ones then? Well... it's got the same rating. So it's just going to be getting the usual few plays a day. The second play level is a more normal case for people that don't do the republish shuffle. My theory is that if you want to get more plays, pre-organise your friends online to play it as soon as you officially publish it and get them to give it a high rating. I think this would give a much higher play from an initial publish than just letting it float on it's own. The only problem with this theory is that it's not entirely ethical. Of course that won't necessarily keep a level to be getting plays without any help though. It will eventually sink down to the 4.x rating needed for it to disappear off the highest rating page, and that's when the respost shuffle would be needed. Man, the current system is just bad, and not just from an ethical viewpoint, but from a rewarding for acheivement viewpoint as well.

2009-02-16 10:52:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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I personally think the bloody trophies are a big, big part of the problem with the general idiocy that can show up on the LBP community at times. If it wasnt for the accursed trophies, levels like Ramp and other stupidities would likely not be as prevalent. Personally, I've never seen any good reason for the stupid trophy system being added. I dunno about everyone else here, but I for one could seriously care less. Earning trophies unlocks exactly nothing, so I never bother with them. Not to mention that the STUPID they cause on LBP makes me hate them, lol. Heck, that stupid "H4H" idea would likely barely be there at all if it werent for those things.

2009-02-17 04:28:00 Author: Bridget Posts: 334

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I bet H4H wouldnt excist at all without trophies, because whats the point of making a crap level to get hearted if theres not a "you got hearted dis many times" achievement...

2009-02-17 04:37:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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I personally think the bloody trophies are a big, big part of the problem with the general idiocy that can show up on the LBP community at times. If it wasnt for the accursed trophies, levels like Ramp and other stupidities would likely not be as prevalent. Personally, I've never seen any good reason for the stupid trophy system being added. I dunno about everyone else here, but I for one could seriously care less. Earning trophies unlocks exactly nothing, so I never bother with them. Not to mention that the STUPID they cause on LBP makes me hate them, lol. Heck, that stupid "H4H" idea would likely barely be there at all if it werent for those things. Totally agree. I don't need a trophy in real life to tell me how good I am at something, so why the heck would I need a "virtual" trophy to let me know what I've accomplished either? Ridiculous. >

2009-02-17 22:57:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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Totally agree. I don't need a trophy in real life to tell me how good I am at something, so why the heck would I need a "virtual" trophy to let me know what I've accomplished either? Ridiculous. > You dont, really. But business execs at Sony dont think that way. Their basic way of thinking about this is simple: "Microsoft has Achievements and players just LOVE those, so we need something JUST like it cause we're not creative enough to come up with something new and interesting ourselves...." I hate that type of thinking in the gaming industry....... but unfortunately, cant do much about it.

2009-02-19 03:53:00 Author: Bridget Posts: 334

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I might just be the only one that had a level go from 3 star to 4 star. And it was after about 100 plays. Maybe? I dunno.

2009-02-19 04:01:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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I personally think the bloody trophies are a big, big part of the problem with the general idiocy that can show up on the LBP community at times. If it wasnt for the accursed trophies, levels like Ramp and other stupidities would likely not be as prevalent. Personally, I've never seen any good reason for the stupid trophy system being added. I dunno about everyone else here, but I for one could seriously care less. Earning trophies unlocks exactly nothing, so I never bother with them. Not to mention that the STUPID they cause on LBP makes me hate them, lol. Heck, that stupid "H4H" idea would likely barely be there at all if it weren't for those things. While I agree that trophies are useless, the idea behind them is likely to give you some sort of a sense of accomplishment. In a small way, it gives games more replay value (depending on the tasks associated with any given trophy). The real fault here is that many people take this sort of thing way too seriously. Lots of people just want instant gratification. This is the reason cheating devices exist. People just want to run around and say that they've done something, just so they can somehow be considered "cool". Most people that fall in this group don't want to work for it, they just want it now. So, they resort to doing it the lazy/quick way. They don't care. In their minds, they earned it, even if all they did was turn on an infinite lives and health code, and just "held right". Similarly, many people want to get that Platinum trophy. However, most don't feel like it's worth the time trying to earn it. So, H4H was born. I'm sure it's the general opinion that the Create trophy is the obvious cause of this. Also, star ratings lead you to no trophies/awards/or much of anything. Therefore, people don't care. I've also noticed that sometimes levels will get completely random and inaccurate tags. Remember, there's a trophy for tagging levels. The quickest way to do that is to pick random levels and just pick the first tag they see. They don't care if your dark and sinister level gets the cute tag. Actually, there's one for playing levels too. Quickest way to get these trophies would be to simply play a given level, exit immediately, default star rank (or just skip it), and first random tag. So, yes, I agree that trophies are the biggest fault. There's not really anything we can do except wait for all of the obsessed trophy collectors to get the trophies/give up and leave LBP for some other game. Maybe then, things will be better. </rant> Edit: That turned out way longer than I thought it would be. My bad. >.<

2009-02-19 04:32:00 Author: gameguy888 Posts: 159

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1- People can't rate properly and will never do. Even professional reviews are bad so just imagine regular people. 2- H4H phenomenon. People will heart any new level popping up and giving it a score just to influence gullible and new creators to heart theirs. They try to take you by the emotional side! LOL Seriously, too much begging in the community right now. Like it was all plays and hearts that matter. Probably a sad effect of badly designed trophies. There's alot of trophies in the game that encourage a bad use of the game and bad behavior in the community. MM should have put more thought to it all. .

2009-02-19 16:10:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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While I agree that trophies are useless, the idea behind them is likely to give you some sort of a sense of accomplishment. In a small way, it gives games more replay value (depending on the tasks associated with any given trophy). The real fault here is that many people take this sort of thing way too seriously. Lots of people just want instant gratification. This is the reason cheating devices exist. People just want to run around and say that they've done something, just so they can somehow be considered "cool". Most people that fall in this group don't want to work for it, they just want it now. So, they resort to doing it the lazy/quick way. They don't care. In their minds, they earned it, even if all they did was turn on an infinite lives and health code, and just "held right". Similarly, many people want to get that Platinum trophy. However, most don't feel like it's worth the time trying to earn it. So, H4H was born. I'm sure it's the general opinion that the Create trophy is the obvious cause of this. Also, star ratings lead you to no trophies/awards/or much of anything. Therefore, people don't care. I've also noticed that sometimes levels will get completely random and inaccurate tags. Remember, there's a trophy for tagging levels. The quickest way to do that is to pick random levels and just pick the first tag they see. They don't care if your dark and sinister level gets the cute tag. Actually, there's one for playing levels too. Quickest way to get these trophies would be to simply play a given level, exit immediately, default star rank (or just skip it), and first random tag. So, yes, I agree that trophies are the biggest fault. There's not really anything we can do except wait for all of the obsessed trophy collectors to get the trophies/give up and leave LBP for some other game. Maybe then, things will be better. </rant> Edit: That turned out way longer than I thought it would be. My bad. >.< All unfortunate but true. Particularly about the instant-gratification bit. I'll honestly just never understand that type of player. Never. I, personally, do not cheat. Ever. In anything. And I play the types of games that many players would never even TRY due to the utterly absurd difficulty levels of them. Yet still, I never cheat. If Im gonna win, I'll do it because of my own skill. And I definitely dont really care what others think of it, also. But, bah, many of them dont think that way, do they. But still, the trophy system itself is my biggest issue. I understand the need for gratification and all, but the least Sony could have done is come up with something new and original; instead all they did is copy Microsoft's "achievements" system and rename it "trophies". It's exactly the same blasted thing. They could have at least TRIED to do something new..... they just didnt. Also, devs forced to come up with stupid trophies, shouldnt come up with as many that are..... well..... STUPID. I mean, a trophy just for playing a certain amount of levels in here? How is that an accomplishment? Siiiiiiiiiiiigh....... EDIT: Also, yeah, that thing with the random tags is REALLY ANNOYING. I dunno, that one just BUGS me. My big boss-thing Rave got an "easy" tag put on it at one point. "EASY". Aaaaaaaaaagh. Anyone calling anything I make "easy" is basically asking "Please, kick me in the shin. As hard as possible!" If you dont wanna put a tag on JUST FREAKING SKIP IT!!!!!

2009-02-19 18:34:00 Author: Bridget Posts: 334

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Glad to see there are more anti-cheaters out there than just me. When I was a kid, I had a game genie for both my NES and Sega Genesis. Then I grew up and found that games actually held replay value when you didn't cheat. Wow, I must have missed this when I was 12. Now, it's fairly regular practice for me to go and unlock everything and beat the hardest difficulty of games I buy, no cheats, codes, or anything. Therein lies true replay value and fun. I actually find it funny when I see people with a hundred or more author hearts when their publications amount to a couple of poorly made levels. It's screamingly obvious that they are trying to fake some kind of skill they clearly lack. The create trophy is no more than a massive burden on most people who seek nothing more than a platinum trophy and it's shameful that the rating systems are completely broken as a result. Regarding level tags, they are downright absurd and add nothing to this game. It's trivial to get a level tagged 'beautiful', and its insulting when you create a well-balanced level that gets tagged 'frustrating' for no apparent reason. They aren't even useful for searching, since just about any level will turn up, given that all levels inevitably get tagged by every tag. IMO, get rid of hearts (and opt for a personal friends/favorites list that is not advertised on the front of your profile), get rid of tags, and make star ratings optional. This way, lazy people aren't required to do anything other than play your level, and those that actually care can specify the rating they wish to give, without preset choices in place. Lessons for LBP2... let's hope Mm learns something from this.

2009-02-19 19:02:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Glad to see there are more anti-cheaters out there than just me. When I was a kid, I had a game genie for both my NES and Sega Genesis. Then I grew up and found that games actually held replay value when you didn't cheat. Wow, I must have missed this when I was 12. Now, it's fairly regular practice for me to go and unlock everything and beat the hardest difficulty of games I buy, no cheats, codes, or anything. Therein lies true replay value and fun. I actually find it funny when I see people with a hundred or more author hearts when their publications amount to a couple of poorly made levels. It's screamingly obvious that they are trying to fake some kind of skill they clearly lack. The create trophy is no more than a massive burden on most people who seek nothing more than a platinum trophy and it's shameful that the rating systems are completely broken as a result. Regarding level tags, they are downright absurd and add nothing to this game. It's trivial to get a level tagged 'beautiful', and its insulting when you create a well-balanced level that gets tagged 'frustrating' for no apparent reason. They aren't even useful for searching, since just about any level will turn up, given that all levels inevitably get tagged by every tag. IMO, get rid of hearts (and opt for a personal friends/favorites list that is not advertised on the front of your profile), get rid of tags, and make star ratings optional. This way, lazy people aren't required to do anything other than play your level, and those that actually care can specify the rating they wish to give, without preset choices in place. Lessons for LBP2... let's hope Mm learns something from this. ...or just put more thoughts into your **** trophies. Trophies are good but as anything else in a game, it can be badly designed. In LBP trophie are so badly designed that it skewed the behavior of the general community people. .

2009-02-19 21:28:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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LBP is the only PS3 game I have a substantial amount of trophies in... I guess if you love a game enough, or have only so many games, it does provide incentive for replay and mastery. ...nonsense like "complete tutorial" or "press start" trophies, are pretty ridiculous though. I suppose though, that they don't make the assumption that completing the tutorial for a young kid or first time gamer isn't a big deal for them, and it probably helps to clue in that there ARE trophies to be had to make the otherwise ignorant player go "huh? I can win stuff?" The main mistake was just tying trophies to any kind of creation things in LBP, but I can't condemn it - I understand that it gives them an increase in numbers, and might even make the uncreative and reluctant overcome the hurdle of trying to understand the initially daunting create mode to possibly become good contributors... but they honestly, in terms of business, just want people to jump into create mode as part of the play experience regardless of how they view it (be it seriously, or as a useless gimmick, or as a pointless non-medium). This game deserves success, for it to be a long running venue for people like us, and the stupidity of trophies and retarded levels is like that of commercial music to independent music - a necessary evil that creates a financially lucrative and populated ecosystem for the more creative and important niche artists to find an audience in and parasitically thrive on. Just being able to report "300,000 levels published" is a great amount of bragging rites for them, and solidifies it as something that is performing in a market sense well beyond it's initial release and sale period. Even though most of those are H4H and first time levels, it's still beneficial to MM and to Sony as a stamp of success and can easily be used as a way to gauge success from onlookers who might fund future LBP add ons, a sequel, the success of the PS3, and future consoles from Sony, or be inspired to create the next great interactive digital medium for gamers. In the mean time... Liquid Ocelot's motivations and the ultimate goal of the the MGS pack is a giant running gag that shows MM is at least aware of the stupidity and doesn't endorse it... they at least unofficially vocalize their endearment towards the loyal fans who really appreciate the create mode and put their all into it as a game and as an expressive medium.

2009-02-19 21:32:00 Author: Unknown User

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what's more interesting to me is not the number of stars but the number of plays. that says to me that some how when you first published it, people happened upon it more readily. this likely has something to do with how levels are randomly pushed out to the general populace by the MM algorithms. that, and people are stupid.

2009-02-20 02:05:00 Author: Conall-Star Posts: 157

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my main problem is that sooo few of the levels that are on the Highest rated, and most hearted, and you know, any other place of honor, are actually worth playing.. So many of these levels are dogcrap in a tacoshell.. and most of the people who acctually put alot of thought and planning and time into their creations stay on the "cool Levels" page for about twelve minutes before getting bumped off for the "Unnamed Level" or "Ramp 2: electric bugaloo" but yea I think the main problem as far as the ratings and labeling goes is that 99% of the people who play your level, have never published a level of their own... So my solution to the problem would actually utilize the poorly designed trophy system.. It would take into account wether youve earned the "Creator" trophy (or what ever its called.. Look what I made.. somthing) to be able to offer your oppinion. Until you win this trophy any attempt to comment/rate a level you play will be met by the message "Were sorry, but we see you have never personally posted a level. This means that your opinion is not yet important enough to matter. Once youve Tried on the creation gloves yourself, you can return here to comment, with a more meaningful viewpoint. Have a great day!"

2009-02-20 02:56:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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LBP is the only PS3 game I have a substantial amount of trophies in... I guess if you love a game enough, or have only so many games, it does provide incentive for replay and mastery. ...nonsense like "complete tutorial" or "press start" trophies, are pretty ridiculous though. I suppose though, that they don't make the assumption that completing the tutorial for a young kid or first time gamer isn't a big deal for them, and it probably helps to clue in that there ARE trophies to be had to make the otherwise ignorant player go "huh? I can win stuff?" The main mistake was just tying trophies to any kind of creation things in LBP, but I can't condemn it - I understand that it gives them an increase in numbers, and might even make the uncreative and reluctant overcome the hurdle of trying to understand the initially daunting create mode to possibly become good contributors... but they honestly, in terms of business, just want people to jump into create mode as part of the play experience regardless of how they view it (be it seriously, or as a useless gimmick, or as a pointless non-medium). This game deserves success, for it to be a long running venue for people like us, and the stupidity of trophies and retarded levels is like that of commercial music to independent music - a necessary evil that creates a financially lucrative and populated ecosystem for the more creative and important niche artists to find an audience in and parasitically thrive on. Just being able to report "300,000 levels published" is a great amount of bragging rites for them, and solidifies it as something that is performing in a market sense well beyond it's initial release and sale period. Even though most of those are H4H and first time levels, it's still beneficial to MM and to Sony as a stamp of success and can easily be used as a way to gauge success from onlookers who might fund future LBP add ons, a sequel, the success of the PS3, and future consoles from Sony, or be inspired to create the next great interactive digital medium for gamers. I think there's no problem making trophies about the creation mode. I think it's because they made trophie about recognition if you like. Stuff like receiving a trophy because you've been hearted X number of time is wrong because it create ******** like HRH. A trophy about the number of community levels you played is PERFECT FINE as it doesn't traduce in any bad behavior, it can only make the community active. Trophies are fine. It's just that there was some badly designed one in LBP and DID skew the behavior of the community and encouraged undesired phenonemon. This is because they didn't think trophies are that important while they ARE super important to people. It's to the point where it totally make people play their games different and Xbox owners made the phenomen spread OUTSIDE THE MICROSOFT USERBASE. I don't know what it is if it's not important. MM should have put more thought into their trophies and this thread might not have existed. .

2009-02-20 03:07:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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