Archive: 14 posts

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I just... I don't know... this is what I am trying to remake, but I don't know if it is at all possible due to LBP's physics engine Here is what I am trying to Remake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS4r9Fq3beU) If you wants to try this game, it is free download (http://games.digipen.edu/games/perspective#.U37ev3JdVyU) If anybody, ANYBODY here on the forum has an idea on how to do this, or if you can ultimately say with me that this is impossible, then, say it with me, but if any idea on how to make this work comes to mind, please post!

2014-05-23 06:39:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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I think some of the gameplay elements may be possible using the 3D camera glitch, but most of it will be impossible. The vertical 3D rotation and scaling elements will be impossible. It is possible to do the 3D horizontal rotation using the 3D camera glitch in conjunction with the Radar Tag tool. Even using these tools there will be some restriction. You would not be able to play as Sackboy unless he is in a controlinator. The playing area wouldn't be very large. The jump mechanics would be pretty limited (using In/Out movers). The 3D camera glitch might not be able to produce the required view to create a convincing effect, I would need to experiment a bit more with it. An interesting challenge for the weekend!

2014-05-23 09:03:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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I think you'd be bonkers to even try making that level in LBP!

2014-05-23 11:46:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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With some good use of tricks, glitches, illusions, tons of crazy logic and emitting techniques you may be able to create a similar even tho far... far more simple version of the game's concept if you put in months of daily hard work into it. But otherwise no, And really it wouldn't be worth the trouble in my opinion. *mew

2014-05-23 12:10:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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If anybody, ANYBODY here on the forum has an idea on how to do this, or if you can ultimately say with me that this is impossible, then, say it with me, but if any idea on how to make this work comes to mind, please post! Yes, it's possible. An easy botch for perspective projection is to individually divide the x and y coordinates of a vertex by its z coordinates. Take the x, y, z coordinates (10, 10, 1) and (10, 10, 2). After dividing each axis individually you're left with the screen coordinates (10, 10) and (5, 5). Drawing a line between two points is trivial in LBP, so I leave that to your imagination. Once you've drawn that line there's your first 3D polygon. This isn't enough to arbitrarily transform 3D coordinates along any axis however, that requires matrix multiplication. I'll leave this to Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_matrix) to explain. You can consider vectors as equivalent to vertexes in that article. As far as I know, it's not possible to evaluate matrices in a single step. That means no real-time evaluation of vertex coordinates, given LBP's logic simulation and framerate are tied together at 30 Hz. This complicates things but isn't a huge problem, there are two approaches I can think of to alleviate this: Each vertex is given its own processor with independent memory. Any idle time on the processor would be spent calculating possible future screen coordinates. Looking 1 frame ahead and moving 1 unit along a singular axis would mean shifting the contents of a 3^3 array and calculating 9 new possible coordinates. All possible screen coordinates are precalculated and placed in a lookup table. Transforming a vertex is then simply consulting the table, which could be done in 1 or 2 frames depending how it's implemented. A coordinate system encompassing a space of 20x20x20 points would require 8000 table entries as an example. While it's possible in LBP, it's likely not practical to implement.

2014-05-23 14:58:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130223000930/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/b/b3/Kevin-Butler-Mind-Blown.gif

2014-05-23 15:38:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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After a few tests I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible due to the fact that the 3D camera glitch view is from the foreground, i.e. the surfaces of your platforms would need to be theck material on the first foreground layer for them to appear that they're on the same level in the 3D view. As soon as you try to move any theck material that is in the foreground it immediately snaps back into the normal layers. If you can find a 3D camera glitch that gives a "lower' view point, then I reckon it will be possible to create the horizontal rotation part of the gameplay. The logic wouldn't be too difficult or complex, as long as you have Radar Tag tool.

2014-05-23 21:53:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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To my knowledge this is completely possible but wouldn't as visually pleasing. I also assume the camera's alone would constantly glitch and take up half the thermometer. I estimate you would need at least 3 to make this effect but it would look rubbish. This would be possible for the most part but it would be so laggy, Also you will have to make a choice between lengh, Gameplay or visuals given the LBP thermo.

2014-05-23 23:13:00 Author: Jonarrthan Posts: 310

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I've got a basic prototype working! As I stated in the previous post it isn't possible to get it visually perfect, but i've got pretty close. I would like to stress that I have only recreated the gameplay where you rotate horizontally to line up the platforms - there is no scaling gameplay or vertical rotation and you don't have sack boy running along the platforms (I've just used a ball decoration), and you can't jump. It runs as smooth as silk, I only use one camera and no matrices. The logic is very simple. I use tag sensors on either end of each platform to determine if you're within range to 'stand' on the platform and Radar Tags to control the rotation since I'm using the 3D camera glitch. Due to the simplicity of the initial prototype, I reckon you'll be able to develop the idea further to create a great puzzle level - as long as you don't mind that the platform heights don't match up exactly. I'll post a video later if I have time.

2014-05-24 15:59:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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I've got a basic prototype working! Wow that is incredible, I think that you should try to make the level as a whole published level if you can, since you've got it down, you've nailed the concept, and got it to work "smooth as silk" and all I did was propose the idea, good going, and I hope you can get MM picked (and a video would be nice ) Great job fluxlasers

2014-05-25 22:41:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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It was your idea, so you can have the prototype I made. I just like a technical challenge. To be honest, I thought it would be more difficult than it was. As I've already mentioned the tops of the platforms don't match up exactly, so I've used a thin layer of Holo material to hide the misalignment. Here's a video. Sorry for the flickering, it was recorded using an iPhone. There is a brief look at the logic at the end of the video - nothing too complex. http://youtu.be/gt3lvbCGvYQ The controls are Left Stick to move around and the Right Stick to rotate and zoom the camera. There is no logic to kill the player if they fall off a platform. You will need the Cross Control DLC for it to work because it uses Tag Radar. It also uses Metal Gear Solid and Muppets DLC. Let me know if you don't have these. What will be the best method to get the level to you?

2014-05-26 00:58:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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I dont have metal gear, but I have the rest, and btw great job flux, this works and looks amazing, I didnt think something like this was possible, or feasible, but you managed to make it simple You can send it however you like, but I wont know when I will get to it, because ive been pretty busy, and honestly I think other people are better suited for the task (I dont really like working with 3d). You should put this up as a challenge, or a contest of some sort, see who can work with the concept, if it was left up to me solely, it would never get finished, or just take a really long time (and I would really like to see what the community could do with this) Maybe you could make a finished product, even though you only attempted a tech demo, because seeing this video, I think you could make it very well (great job again at making something that few could achieve)

2014-05-26 02:33:00 Author: amiel445566 Posts: 664

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I don't really have time to develop the idea further, or give instructions on how it works to players that aren't able to work out how it works. I started my current LBP project last summer and It's still far from finished - I get easily distracted. Maybe one day I'll create some more challenging gameplay elements and publish it.

2014-05-26 11:01:00 Author: fluxlasers Posts: 182

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I'll admit I don't really understand how Tag Radars work as that was 1 of the only logic pieces I never fully understood even when people explained it to me. I'm pretty good with logic I'd say but there are couple logic pieces I didn't really study that greatly... like the cross controller stuff. Anyways for a very simple version of the game's concept that prototype isn't bad. It'll still be a far more limited version of the real game it's based after regardless even if lot more work is put into it, However such is normal for a LBP level... So really that's pretty good, Better then I was expecting anyways. *mew

2014-05-26 11:51:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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