Archive: 12 posts

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I have been thinking, why are there Or and AND gates? They, when inverted, are identical. Invert the OR gate, and make the switches remove the arms for AND. Or, invert the And gate, and again, invert the inputs, and you get an OR gate! Also, what is the use of a NOT gate? can't you just invert the switch? I hope in LBP2 they have MM made Logic gates! I think they should have an option on magnetic keys "require x amount of colour" for an easy and gate. A few other things, I wish teleportation was built in. The current way can be a headache! Also, doesn't is suck that you can't do multiple things to something? like it would be cool if you could make multiple inputs effect one thing, like speed up, change direction, slow down, off etc. Discuss?

2009-02-08 01:09:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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I'm tired and it's late, but I just can't see an inverted OR switch becoming an AND switch, or vice versa. One has multiple inputs all needing to be on to reach a final switch (AND) and the other can take inputs from different sources to do the same thing (OR). The classic switch set up for that I am use to is having AND push multiple pistons until they final block reaches the switch, while OR has one switch that can can have pistons coming from many directions. The two seem completely different to me... AND: Block - piston1 - block - piston2 - block w/key.... Mag Switch OR: Block - piston1 - block w/key... Mag Switch... block w/key - piston2 - block How inverting that makes the same thing is beyond me. The dots mean all the pistons before it needs to extend before the switch is activated. I'm too tired to remember a NOT gate off the top of my head. It's been a long day. MM are planning more tutorials in an upcoming patch. It's quite possible that they will talk about logic gates, but they are difficult to explain simply... the source is from Online Create and Arcade Pack! (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=8363), it's one of the more hidden notes for Cornish Yarg. Creators have pretty much invented reliable teleport systems, from what I understand. Jaeyden is just one creator who is pushing the field in this area, there are several overs. An example of his work is in this thread: Teleporter pods (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=8187). If you have multiple switches activate one thing, it might overload the system. Which switch takes priority? Which one should it ignore if there is a conflict? Using logic gates makes things much more complicated, yet, but it will prevent conflicts from multiple sources. Certainly, it would make things easier for lazy creators, but if they have some system built in already, it would likely frustrate detailed creators more than help them. Just because it's hard, it does not mean it's not worth doing. Simplifying things I believe will make things worse. They already have a highly flexible creation system with many possible work arounds, often times more than what the original creators imagined. To simplify the already working systems would be a step backwards rather than forwards I believe.

2009-02-08 13:00:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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I'm not too sure, but i think a NOT gate is like a permanent inverted switch... I used something like this in my level, and i used a standard permanent switch set-up (The mag key - disolve - mag switch set-up). But i made the mag key out of disolve aswell, meaning you can "undo" an action from a different switch. Usually, when you connect a switch to let's say a piston, you can not have another switch somewhere else in the level, control that same piston.

2009-02-08 16:56:00 Author: ThommyTheThird Posts: 440

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What I meant was, if you invert an OR switch, so it is only on when both of the objects are away from it, and default the mag keys so pressing the switch moves the pistons away, you have an AND switch. Same with AND. Invert the switch, and make the wobble bolts start facing it. Pressing either of the buttons to move it away will trigger it, thus it is an OR.

2009-02-08 21:07:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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OR port is not the same as an inverted AND port. I might mistake in your setup. The truth tables are like this: 0 is not extended piston. 1 is an extended piston. AND PORT: In OUT 00 0 01 0 10 0 11 1 Inverted AND port (NAND) IN OUT 00 1 01 1 10 1 11 0 OR port IN OUT 00 0 01 1 10 1 11 1 Let's throw in an exclusive OR for good measure (XOR): (this may be a bit more complicated to make). IN OUT 00 0 01 1 10 1 11 0 I myself make everthing competly on the fly, just building what I need at the moment, it's better for my memory .

2009-02-09 13:07:00 Author: Wyth Posts: 263

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dkjestrup is correct; consider the following setup: (block w/ key) --piston-- (block with mag switch) --piston-- (block with key) The gate functions as an OR. Activating either piston (with a directional switch) will bring a key in close and activate the mag switch. If you invert the pistons and the mag switch, then the keys are by default in range and the mag switch is off. Activate one piston and it will move away, but the other will keep the mag switch off. Activate both and no keys will be in range, which turns on the inverted mag switch. The gate is now functioning as an AND. (I'd imagine that some gate constructions may not be able to be inverted properly, but this is the one I use and it works quite well in both capacities.) This switch cannot be simply tweaked to produce XOR logic, but that's generally of limited use and can be constructed with a short series of these.

2009-02-09 17:41:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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Ahh right now I see. Yeah so if you invert an AND construction a certain way, it'll be an OR construction. I't not like you claimed that any inverted and construction (inverting the mag. key) results in an OR. Never mind me then, except for your combinatorial logic classes .

2009-02-10 09:40:00 Author: Wyth Posts: 263

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lol LBP2 will be good but what about all our awesome creations they'll all be gone or transferred over? anyway AND gates rocks for levels where you want 2 or more targets to destroy one thing YEY for the AND gates and or gates i dont know much about... but i love /AND gates

2009-02-10 09:53:00 Author: Zommy Posts: 1232

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Yeah, that is what I meant. I use pre-made AND and OR gates from "Nettys Logic Lesson" but I really thought why are there two gates? Also, can someone tell me the use of a NOT gate? can't you just invert the switch?

2009-02-13 03:44:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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It might be useful if you have one switch performing multiple actions. If you needed to hook up a switch so action A performs positively and action B performs negatively, you might hook the switch directly to action A and also to a NOT gate which is hooked to action B. That said, I've never used one yet, because many of the things you attach the switches to can also be inverted.

2009-02-13 16:42:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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uh what is a logic gate? because i'm completely lost on what you guys are talking about.

2009-02-14 03:40:00 Author: superBlast Posts: 267

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uh what is a logic gate? because i'm completely lost on what you guys are talking about. A logic gate is a fancy name for a middle system that controls a series of actions, like having multiple players stand on different buttons to open a door (an AND gate will do this) or having 3 different keys spread about a level, which have different magnetic keys on them, but they all need to open one door (an OR gate is needed for this). I hope this helps. It's the use of logic to describe what will happen in a given instance, basically fancy programming language.

2009-02-14 05:21:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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