Archive: 423 posts

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Now let me clear this up right away, I do not want a punch of hate spewing on this topic. I am really just a person, who loves a good religious debate. The best way to discover what people believe and most importantly why. So, I am a Unitarian Universalist. I go to church often but my religion isn't a very well known one. Basically, we believe that every person has a right to there own personal set of beliefs and all church should do is to encourage each individual on their own path of religious exploration. At my church there are many different people, men, women, children, heterosexuals and homosexuals and we all have our own beliefs. I personally believe that there is no "God." Science may not be able to explain everything, but it does a better job than most religions. I have much more to say, but I would much prefer to hear other people's beliefs first. (please no attacking someones beliefs either.)

2009-02-06 00:28:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Doubt this will go any better then before... But while it's here, I'll take advantage. Someone name me a way that everything could begin that sounds halfway-intellegent and not stupid?

2009-02-06 00:33:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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well seems like you already know that its a touchy and risky subject to start with BUT.... I belive that religion was created because of the lack of science or other explanations and the only way people could logically explain things was there was a magic force controlling or creating it. Ex. The ancient greeks had a god for EVERYTHING...pretty much case and point there. also it was a source of comfort for people to know they are going some where else and can live forever... I'll accept the fact when im dead im dead. I respect anyones belief to their religion this is just my own view. I also believe its pretty sad people use religion to minipulate and control the masses. and also use it to minipulate politics. obviously science cant explain everything but i believe we've unlocked a lot and i think with time we will be able to logically explain everything. (will take a lot of time) [Edit]: And Rock I don't think we have near enough information at this time to give a good reason for how anything began... If your referring to the entire universe any logically reason is very far away. [Edit2]: Also want to stress again I completely respect peoples views. I just find myself to be quite a logical person and make all my decisions / ideas off of logic and reasoning. And also believe you don't need religion to be a good person. I am a very good person and go out of my way to help people and always do whats right / just.

2009-02-06 00:34:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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What i can't understand is how did every come, like there has to be a beginning right well no not in this case, i mean How did something not begin ...!!!!!!! it's crazy when you think about it, but i believe in god as i'm 22 i don't know what religion yet, my parent's want me to be Christian. But i'm under sided. EDIT: Why was Hitler so mad at jews ..? i mean i know HE thought that they were taking over his country, and they were the problem but i mean get real...

2009-02-06 00:42:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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What i can't understand is how did every come, like there has to be a beginning right well no not in this case, i mean How did something not begin ...!!!!!!! it's crazy when you think about it, but i believe in god as i'm 22 i don't know what religion yet, my parent's want me to be Christian. But i'm under sided. thats pretty much what i'm talking about. im sure there is an explanation for it but it would shatter everyones minds or they just wouldnt understand one bit. thats the most baffling question ever....what is the universe and how did it start....AND WHAT THE HECK DID IT START FROM?!?! also whats it expanding into.. all crazy questions...thats why in my opinion religion is an easy out to those...its like oh i know all those answers because god made it that way. don't get me wrong religion has good teachings but i know i didn't need it to make me the person i am today. but i believe with time we will continue to answer more and more of those questions; and if you look at trends religion has been declining i think its because more of the answers we're finding.

2009-02-06 00:44:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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I watched a show about 4 months ago and it was about the apocalipse. And all they old religions and people now where talking BC here like really old tribes cave man as such, where predicting the apocalise for year 2012, And there have been alot of preaches who have forseen the future and they also said 2012, and they done some research on this top secret computer where it tells you all the most talked about topics and what not and the year 2012 kept coming up. What do you think..?

2009-02-06 00:51:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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well for one point...religions and people have talked about / predicted the end of the world dozens of times by now.. another point i know the myans (mians) however you spell it were extremely advanced for their time to the point that its really weird... and their calendar that they created (that is way more accurate than ours) ends December 25th 2012 i believe....which is really messed up im afraid that something may happen then but im not sure its just weird...the only thing i can think of is a giant natural disaster or an asteroid...i know the polar caps are shifting soon that could cause the earth to get all messed up i think it may be the caps shifting and global warming D:

2009-02-06 00:54:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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XAtgPaggeTM look look look here it's yea that calender thing is SO FREAKY!!!

2009-02-06 00:57:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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[QUOTE=Thee-Flash;141638 and they done some research on this top secret computer where it tells you all the most talked about topics and what not and the year 2012 kept coming up. What do you think..?[/QUOTE] Thats just the UK moaning about the 2012 olympics.

2009-02-06 00:58:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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Thats just the UK moaning about the 2012 olympics. Although that was really funny, this was out before then >.>

2009-02-06 01:00:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Thats just the UK moaning about the 2012 olympics. rofl! XD Yes about the religion. I am a Christian... kinda weird though My Dad was born in Iraq and he was is a Christian and he was one of those special 3% of christians in Iraq. My mom was Cathlic in Ireland but she converted to just basic Christianity

2009-02-06 01:00:00 Author: Snrm Posts: 6419

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ya it is really crazy flash....the most baffling part is they made that calendar very accurate for thousands of years and just stop on that date....hmm too big of a coincidence what baffles me is...what the hell did they know that we don't and why how did they know?!?! i almost think they were in contact with aliens some how as crazy as it sounds...they would build those giant stone sculptures of animals and bugs that can only be seen if your high up in the air... and also another weird coincidence...pyramids....the cultures weren't in contact w/ eachother but they build pyramids all over the world...almost as if they were trying to get up somewhere. [Crazy edit]: OOOo i just thought of another crazy fact... i think it was izaick (something like that soudn it out) in the bible was a great prophet before jesus i think about a thousand years if i recall.....in the bible it states he was taken up into the heavens in a great chariot of fire... (how else would people back then describe a UFO besides a chariot of fire?) and when he was up there he could see THE CURVITTURE OF THE EARTH!! which means he said the earth was curved (round!) WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before columbus...its pretty crazy that almost proves right there that he was taken up into space...its wild [Edit3]: like i said im not religious but thats relaly undeniable ...thats prob the one thing from the bible i believe

2009-02-06 01:03:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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What i can't understand is how did every come, like there has to be a beginning right well no not in this case, i mean How did something not begin ...!!!!!!! it's crazy when you think about it, but i believe in god as i'm 22 i don't know what religion yet, my parent's want me to be Christian. But i'm under sided. People always argue that everything couldn't have just appeared in a "big bang" so there must have been a god who created it all. What i dont understand about that is this, if matter wasn't always here and couldn't have always been here, where did god come from? If god has always been here then why cant matter have always been here. I will admit that god/gods throughout history have done more than i ever have or ever will. Without god, monks would not have kept knowledge and literacy alive by writing the bible during the dark ages. But now, religion slows or world down. We spend too much time squabling over petty differences. Another reason for religion is human nature. People, (not pointing fingers) all people suffer human nature. Part of human nature is insecurity. We do not know what happens to us when we die. Many of us cannot believe that we simply die, we consider ourselves too important. We can't just believe, that we are a beautiful, intelligent cosmic mistake.

2009-02-06 01:04:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Wow that's weird ham CRAZY EDIT man!! But yea Chir Your so right too Omg these videos are freaky you should watch all 6 xD FodtX8C2SCA

2009-02-06 01:14:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Now let me clear this up right away, I do not want a punch of hate spewing on this topic. I am really just a person, who loves a good religious debate. The best way to discover what people believe and most importantly why. So, I am a Unitarian Universalist. I go to church often but my religion isn't a very well known one. Basically, we believe that every person has a right to there own personal set of beliefs and all church should do is to encourage each individual on their own path of religious exploration. At my church there are many different people, men, women, children, heterosexuals and homosexuals and we all have our own beliefs. (please no attacking someones beliefs either.) That's a beautiful belief. If only everyone thought that way, and just let one another live the way they want to... I gave up on religion last year, you'd be surprised how many people gave up on religion in my school. I think everyone should just let eachother live their lives. And I feel that people look at religious texts too literally and don't see the messages that the books are trying to convey. Like, some people will understand the whole God and Jesus parts of the bible but some will just look at that and the point that your supposed to just love and not judge one another. But then again, most of religious people are really great. Just a couple radicals ruining society.

2009-02-06 01:19:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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also... i believe hitler may of been kind of making up propoganda to minipulate his own people but eventually started buying into his own crap...hitler was a master at propoganda / lies / terrorisim. its hard to say get real because he was crazy as hell. [Edit]: its funny you say that about taking it too literally awesome because your absolutely right...there are these idiots in the Ozark (complete white trash people that live in the mountains) that took a bible passage "they will take on serpents" very literally and in church they dance around with snakes even though they bite them and kill people some times... im sorry but some people are just morons. but religions isnt a bad thing (most of the time ) i just find it illogical and know i dont need someone guiding my life to make me a good person; I can make my own decisions and i know they are right

2009-02-06 01:22:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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People always argue that everything couldn't have just appeared in a "big bang" so there must have been a god who created it all. What i dont understand about that is this, if matter wasn't always here and couldn't have always been here, where did god come from? If god has always been here then why cant matter have always been here. Now, let me ask you a question, if I was to say, "I'll give you a chocalate bar, after an infinite amount of time." Would you ever receive the chocalate bar? No you wouldn't, since we can't say "Okay, infinite amount of time has passed, pay up the chocalate." It wouldn't happen... So my next question is... Could there of been an infinite amount of time before right now? No, there couldn't of been because we never would of reached this moment in time. So we can conclude that time started a finite amount of time ago. We can determine, it started some time ago (time.) And before that, there was no time. Scientists have said, countless of numbers of times, that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed, they have tried, ( splitted an atom, but they have never destroyed, nor created one. ) So, has matter always existed? No, because you can't have matter without time, nor can you have matter without space. If you have matter... Where do you put it? (space) And when do you put it? (time) Nothing finite can be infinite (eternal). Since the universe is made of finite things (matter, time, space), it therefor must be created by something without time (timeless), thus making it eternal. If it is eternal, it must be infinite, so thus, something must of created time, space, and matter. It obviously must be something intelligent ( able to give/sustain us life, and give us elements to go through our daily lives, you can believe whatever you want that created this, BUT SOMETHING has to have created everything, I believe it is God. And with that, I leave this thread to never come back, I just hate talking about religious debates, nothing personal to any of you, I just don't like to argue, I can accept other people's beliefs, and I am in no way trying to point at any one, you can have your beliefs, and I have mine. Goodbye!

2009-02-06 01:25:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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yes, That is the great thing about my religion. We have on specific texts, or creeds. We simply live good lives of peace and happiness. We incorporate pieces of all religions into our own. ex: i celebrate christmas. People take the messages in texts such as the bible and over examine them, looking to deeply and become misguided. THroughout history (and i dont want to offend anyone), god is the largest mass murderer in the history of the world. More blood has been spilt throughout history in the name of god than for any other reason. Because a loving god clearly wants you to go around killing his creations. Hitler was a megolomaniac, extremist, terrorist, evil, lying and brilliant man. I do not agree with anything he has done, but what he did is truly fantastic. He united a country, destroyed by WW1 and rebuilt it. He unified a battered and brusied country and turnerd it into a world super power within a few years. P.S. anyone interested in UU-ism here is a link that describes us a little bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_universalist

2009-02-06 01:26:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Yea true...i have heard of that before people believing there own lies, But there's evidence that he was ***. And since Germany is in another recession, They learn from history and apparently they are trying to build up another nazi party, Now believe you me if they do that i'm joining the army.

2009-02-06 01:26:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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And since Germany is in another recession, They learn from history and apparently they are trying to build up another nazi party, Now believe you me if they do that i'm joining the army. Let's hope this time we don't just give into every single demand of their crazed leader and give him everything he wants in hopes that this maniac won't try to take over the world... ... Better yet, let's hope they're smarter this time 'round :/.

2009-02-06 01:30:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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those are some nice ideas whaaale but that still supports my theory that we just have no idea how any thing started and we just point to some magical power; I belive there is an explanation out there. Thats like the ancient greeks saying I wonder what that giant burning thing is in the sky...oh it must be a god (not the same your view is much more intelligent but compared to their times it would be similar) i just think thats another easy out; like i said we continue to find more and more scientific explanations for things and we will continue to discover more of the insanely complex universe. kind of disappointing your just dumping your opinion and running but idk if we would really get anywhere considering neither of us can prove our opinions [Edit]: so germany is really trying to form another nazi party? wow...i doubt it will be successful considering its still fresh in everyones memory and hitler seized power like a genius and i find it hard to believe anyone can do the same thing he did

2009-02-06 01:35:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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Directed at whaale. If that is indeed supposed to be a direct quote from venomfangx, i must refute that data. I do NOT respect him in anyway. i can respect his views but not him. He is afraid to accept and critism, blocking anyone who tries to comment on his videos besides saying "yaaay for god" (believe i have been blocked). But If god is eternal, why can't matter be "eternal" If GOD has always been here, guiding and creating, why cant matter have been here forever. That argument is severly flawed. Directed at thee-flash, I have heard about that but i do not think a new nazi party will succesfully emerge. But if they do, i will fight it with every bone in my body. "Arguing with a UU is like mud wrestiling with a pig, eventually you realize they are enjoying it." I find this funny. It is true, as a UU i love a good religious debate. They are insightful and are necessary in order to discover what you truly believe. A religious debate is the most healthy thing you can do. and to hamsalad, i agree. with you. God is often, (not always) and easy answer. If we cant explain something, "oh man, god must have done it" I belive that the search for what acutally happened is much more enjoayble than just saying, god did it and that is that.

2009-02-06 01:36:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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ahhh very good point friend... i didn't even notice that fault....exactly what is god made of... is he just a magically.....what exactly if matter isnt eternal what is he...pretty much case and point again.

2009-02-06 01:38:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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Now, let me ask you a question, if I was to say, "I'll give you a chocalate bar, after an infinite amount of time." Would you ever receive the chocalate bar? No you wouldn't, since we can't say "Okay, infinite amount of time has passed, pay up the chocalate." It wouldn't happen... So my next question is... Could there of been an infinite amount of time before right now? No, there couldn't of been because we never would of reached this moment in time. So we can conclude that time started a finite amount of time ago. We can determine, it started some time ago (time.) And before that, there was no time. Scientists have said, countless of numbers of times, that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed, they have tried, ( splitted an atom, but they have never destroyed, nor created one. ) So, has matter always existed? No, because you can't have matter without time, nor can you have matter without space. If you have matter... Where do you put it? (space) And when do you put it? (time) Nothing finite can be infinite (eternal). Since the universe is made of finite things (matter, time, space), it therefor must be created by something without time (timeless), thus making it eternal. If it is eternal, it must be infinite, so thus, something must of created time, space, and matter. It obviously must be something intelligent ( able to give/sustain us life, and give us elements to go through our daily lives, you can believe whatever you want that created this, BUT SOMETHING has to have created everything, I believe it is God. And with that, I leave this thread to never come back, I just hate talking about religious debates, nothing personal to any of you, I just don't like to argue, I can accept other people's beliefs, and I am in no way trying to point at any one, you can have your beliefs, and I have mine. Goodbye! Maybe time has no beginning or no end... Why wouldn't we be here if there was an infinite amount of time? You confused me.

2009-02-06 01:41:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Cartoons feed kids with images of a big holy man with a big white beard so most people in this day in age think that he looks like that. But who's to say god isn't black or Chinese it's obvious when god was created or made up that they still thought white was the dominate race

2009-02-06 01:42:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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But i would LOVE to be proved wrong. i find the belief in god to be very... settling. Knowing that their is a higher purpose. And that something will happen to us after death. I just cant convince myself that is true. And to awesomeman, you dont understand because that argument is highly flawed (sorry whaaaale ) thee-flash-no matter what god looks like, white, black, young, old, chineese, male, female, alien, corcodile, jesus, I cannot see him/her/it existing. I dont only believe in the non-existance of christian god. I dont believe in any god, which encompases many many forms edit:::to christians--- You can not understand why I am atheist. You deny the existance of all gods except for yours. You just believe in fewer gods than they do. I just believe in one fewer god than you (which happens to be zero gods)

2009-02-06 01:44:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Cartoons feed kids with images of a big holy man with a big white beard so most people in this day in age think that he looks like that. But who's to say god isn't black or Chinese I believe that if there is a god: God would have no race, seeing as race is simply determined by color of skin and ancestry. God isn't of this universe God is the creator of everyone and everything, and humans arrived after the Dinosaurs, so humans aren't God's chosen people and God isn't human.

2009-02-06 01:47:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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whaaales arguement is for intelligent people who want a science backing to it but still REALLY want to belive in god so they over look those flaws. whaaaale is intelligent its just hes blinded from logic because of his beliefs much like einstein i think he was inhibited in his research because he was a strong catholic...such a shame (not so much the catholic but that it prevented the worlds smartest man from researching)

2009-02-06 01:47:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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But i would LOVE to be proved wrong. i find the belief in god to be very... settling. Knowing that their is a higher purpose. And that something will happen to us after death. I just cant convince myself that is true. And to awesomeman, you dont understand because that argument is highly flawed (sorry whaaaale ) thee-flash-no matter what god looks like, white, black, young, old, chineese, male, female, alien, corcodile, jesus, I cannot see him/her/it existing. I dont only believe in the non-existance of christian god. I dont believe in any god, which encompases many many forms edit:::to christians--- You can not understand why I am atheist. You deny the existance of all gods except for yours. You just believe in fewer gods than they do. I just believe in one fewer god than you (which happens to be zero gods) Actually it isn't flawed, you can say God is made out of matter, but I don't think so, it has to be something magical, I'm not being ignorant, I'm being open to any ideas, but I have far more belief that something "magical and intelligent" created this entire... let's call it "thing" I definately don't think nothing created everything, that's just nonsense. Something must of created this "thing" ( Earth, Sun, Galaxy, Several Galaxies, actually ) It's not flawed, you just make it seem flawed, because there is no explanation, or a counter, Matter could not have always been there, because in order to have matter, you must have time, and in order to always have time, there must of been an infinite amount of time, but that is impossible, I have showed you examples as to why that is impossible. Now, my brain is starting to get all mushy, and I'm off to a party. And please, don't make it seem like Christians are the bad guys, like I have said, I am one of the few that will allow others to have their own beliefs, but you make it seem like Christians overall won't accept other beliefs, are far too ignorant/hard headed. I apologize if I misunderstood you.

2009-02-06 01:51:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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whaaales arguement is for intelligent people who want a science backing to it but still REALLY want to belive in god so they over look those flaws. whaaaale is intelligent its just hes blinded from logic because of his beliefs much like einstein i think he was inhibited in his research because he was a strong catholic...such a shame (not so much the catholic but that it prevented the worlds smartest man from researching) exactly, as of this point in time. Religion has held many people back.

2009-02-06 01:51:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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I believe that if there is a god: God would have no race, seeing as race is simply determined by color of skin and ancestry. God isn't of this universe God is the creator of everyone and everything, and humans arrived after the Dinosaurs, so humans aren't God's chosen people and God isn't human. I get what you mean.. so god is invisible kind of like an image Who belives jesus is going to return ..?

2009-02-06 01:52:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Oh god this is getting locked soon. I feel it. lol I said God. Some atheists are just as bad as those radical christians, yet they don't realize it. Some of them mock their beliefs, yet they still feel like their being hurt by Christianity somehow. Like Sarah Silverman, I think the only religion should be love. EDIT: I think if Jesus came back people would just say he's crazy, and someone would kill him for trying to impersonate Jesus.

2009-02-06 01:54:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Lol, you know your probley right

2009-02-06 01:55:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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PS as i've stated many times i respect other peoples views... myself just dont find them very logical..and me being logical myself know that radicals arnt just christians you have crazy radicals out of ANNNY groups whaaale as far as i can tell you just proved you cant give someone a peice of candy after an infinite amount of time...you didn't prove time isnt infinite by any means....and to say that god or this thign isnt made of matter but something magical is just kind of ignoring facts or a logical conclusion to say...i have no idea what it is but its something.... have fun at the party

2009-02-06 01:56:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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Oh god this is getting locked soon. I feel it. lol I said God. Some atheists are just as bad as those radical christians, yet they don't realize it. Some of them mock their beliefs, yet they still feel like their being hurt by Christianity somehow. Like Sarah Silverman, I think the only religion should be love. EDIT: I think if Jesus came back people would just say he's crazy, and someone would kill him for trying to impersonate Jesus. Lol, well that would be... Odd? What would we Christians do? I can imagine it now... Jesus : IM BAAAAAAAAAAAAACK Man : LIES * STAB * Me : Uhhhh? Wtf do we do now? THE END!

2009-02-06 01:57:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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WHAAAALE, i am happy that you are a tolerant christian and i respect you very much for that. I do not want it to make seem like i hate christians. But still, you argue that matter and time are finite. (i cannot agree or disagree.) But if you do not believe that matter and time are infinite, then how can god be infinite. WHERE DID HE COME FROM!!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME!!! You can answer that, you say he has been here forever. If good can be here forever, WHY CANT TIME!! I dont see why they would lock this topic. We are being polite and insightful. Religion whether we like it or not plays a large role in our world. We must discuss it in order to learn more about our world and ourselves. And i doubt jesus will come back because i do not believe him to be a holy figure. (not in a biblical sense anyway) but i can see it in my head. Jesus would just sorta walk into a bar and be like "hey guys, im jesus, whatsup?." Noone would believe him and eventually he would just sorta be like, "yea cool, im gonna go bring all the good people to heaven. Peace out y'all."

2009-02-06 01:59:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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WHAAAALE, i am happy that you are a tolerant christian and i respect you very much for that. I do not want it to make seem like i hate christians. But still, you argue that matter and time are finite. (i cannot agree or disagree.) But if you do not believe that matter and time are infinite, then how can god be infinite. WHERE DID HE COME FROM!!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME!!! You can answer that, you say he has been here forever. If good can be here forever, WHY CANT TIME!! I dont see why they would lock this topic. We are being polite and insightful. Religion whether we like it or not plays a large role in our world. We must discuss it in order to learn more about our world and ourselves. And i doubt jesus will come back because i do not believe him to be a holy figure. (not in a biblical sense anyway) but i can see it in my head. Jesus would just sorta walk into a bar and be like "hey guys, im jesus, whatsup?." Noone would believe him and eventually he would just sorta be like, "yea cool, im gonna go bring all the good people to heaven. Peace out y'all." If god made everything, he made time, thus time would be finite. ...Is finite a word? I've never used it before this. No one knows. Let's compare it to LBP. Even though there are signs all around sack boy, he knows not from where he came.

2009-02-06 02:01:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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whaaale as far as i can tell you just proved you cant give someone a peice of candy after an infinite amount of time...you didn't prove time isnt infinite by any means....and to say that god or this thign isnt made of matter but something magical is just kind of ignoring facts or a logical conclusion to say...i have no idea what it is but its something.... have fun at the party That was just an example, stating that time had to have started at some point. If there was an infinite amount of time, I would have gave you the candy after the "infinite" amount of time is over. But there isn't an infinite amount of time, so TIME must of started somewhere, and you can't have MATTER without TIME and you can't have MATTER without SPACE. That's all I'm getting at. If you want, I'll say it like this, God may or may not be matter, but for me, I just think of it a little more logically. Think about it, something had to create EVERYTHING, it wasn't just here... Something, matter or magical, must have created everything, in my opinion, it is something with great awesomeness and intelligence, and since the Bible has proved a lot of things, (future and the past) I tend to believe Christianity, it is just my belief, I have thought about it, countless of times, and there is no other explanation other than something magical (IMO.)

2009-02-06 02:02:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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lol EXACTLY!!! we are his creator... his GOD if you will. and he may worships us, thinking us eternal. But he doesnot know we are not eternal or inifite. Maybe, god is just another being like us, running our lives in his own little imagination. It is always a possibility. :o

2009-02-06 02:03:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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chiropractor345 How do you think Jesus got his name..? he healed people He won't walk into a bar and say Yo Dawg i'm Jesus He will prove himself if it's True lol >.> Although The Jewish god is Evil he orders his believers to kill any one who doesn't believe in him, which of course some do

2009-02-06 02:04:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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chiropractor345 How do you think Jesus got his name..? he healed people He won't walk into a bar and say Yo Dawg i'm Jesus He will prove himself if it's True lol >.> Although The Jewish god is Evil he orders his believers to kill any one who doesn't believe in him, which of course some do Woah... Your PS3 died? >_<

2009-02-06 02:04:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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Woah... Your PS3 died? >_< Yea about 5 mins ago, look at my thread we can talk about it there

2009-02-06 02:05:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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unless matter and time started at the same time with space lol... no but my biggest beef is we lack waaay to much info to say anything and i really hate to say that its a magical thing that did it that we have no explanation for...seems so illogical to me. could of been multiple things... But if god is matter according to you he coudlnt of existed forever...that leaves what is he (we know matter exists we dont know magic exists) again im going to have to say its an easy out since the problem is we do lack so much information to prove anything. no one knows if the universe has always existed. or what started it or what the hell was there before it started. i just dont get how there could be a magical thing....no where? and create this universe...where was "god" when he created it

2009-02-06 02:06:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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i want to know what a star looks like and do they contain matter and life.... Have planets had human life or animal life other than ours. why would our planet be the only one to be given life..? is there another planet that know about us ..? or think the same we do

2009-02-06 02:09:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Whaaaaaale, i dont think anyone will actually know what really started the universe. Lets role with the fact that god created the universe. He then created earth and everything here in 7 days. Whatever, he is infintly powerfull, i can see that happening. NOw the bible says that he created life at around 2000 B.C, (something near there) The bible says that pangea never happened. cavemen never happened. Dinosaurs never happened. The earth is not actually 4.5 billion years old. How does that work? Every reasonable scientific mind knows that these things happened. The reason those things are not in the bible is because the authors of the bible themselves did not know these things. I also picture it impossible for there not to be E.T life in the universe. If the universe is infitie, then there is an infinite possibility that there is other life. if so many forms of life were created on one planet, there MUST be more life else where in the universe. (of course, it will be so different from what we know we may not recognize it at first)

2009-02-06 02:11:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Also if there was Adam and eve the first to start us off where did other races come from .... i don't believe in evolution for the fact that you don't see any other animals changing into something different now. although i think chickens are from the dino time xD

2009-02-06 02:12:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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i want to know what a star looks like and do they contain matter and life.... Have planets had human life or animal life other than ours. why would our planet be the only one to be given life..? is there another planet that know about us ..? or think the same we do Yes a star contains matter. Here's a little thought for you guys: We all just assume that life can't live on planets because life on Earth couldn't, but maybe not all life is like life here on earth. Maybe there are life forms that DON'T need water. Maybe there are life forms that CAN handle intense temperatures like those on Venus.

2009-02-06 02:13:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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unless matter and time started at the same time with space lol... no but my biggest beef is we lack waaay to much info to say anything and i really hate to say that its a magical thing that did it that we have no explanation for...seems so illogical to me. could of been multiple things... But if god is matter according to you he coudlnt of existed forever...that leaves what is he (we know matter exists we dont know magic exists) again im going to have to say its an easy out since the problem is we do lack so much information to prove anything. no one knows if the universe has always existed. or what started it or what the hell was there before it started. i just dont get how there could be a magical thing....no where? and create this universe...where was "god" when he created it Yeah well there are a lot of questions that a few don't know. But for me, I live by FAITH, and faith has helped me a lot. You might say "Oh, it's just a coincidence." But I have lived through a lot of amazing things in my life. For example... I remember, when I was driving one day, I got to a red light, ok, I stopped... The light turned green, but at this exact same time, my friend "spilled" his coffee on me, which made me not realize the light had turned green, and if my friend had not spilled the coffee on me, I would have died, because a car from the crossroad, did not stop on their redlight, going fullspeed, which would have hit me, if I had went when the light turned green..." I don't see this as a coincidence, but I see it as a miracle. Please don't think I'm ignorant, I will agree that a lot of stuff is impossible/close to impossible to prove, and I can understand why a lot of people won't believe in something that they don't see as logical, but this is just my opinion, and my support on why I am a Christian. NOW! I REALLY HAVE TO GET TO A PARTY LOL, THIS THREAD HAS KEPT ME HERE TO LONG. >_< But for me, it's having faith in God. @chiropractor; Oh God, I have come back, but for the last time until I come home, maybe. But yes I do see where you are coming from, but I remember reading somewhere that it is almost impossible for bones to stay visible this long, I'll try to find where it is, and it is supported by science, so don't think it's some Christian writing it. As for your other reason. I never, and neither did the Bible, state that Humans are the only living life forms. There may and probably is other life forms on other planets. I'm pretty sure there is actually. Afterall, they found water on Mars, and where there is water, there is life (plants lawl.)

2009-02-06 02:14:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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Whaaaaaale, i dont think anyone will actually know what really started the universe. Lets role with the fact that god created the universe. He then created earth and everything here in 7 days. Whatever, he is infintly powerfull, i can see that happening. NOw the bible says that he created life at around 2000 B.C, (something near there) The bible says that pangea never happened. cavemen never happened. Dinosaurs never happened. The earth is not actually 4.5 billion years old. How does that work? Every reasonable scientific mind knows that these things happened. The reason those things are not in the bible is because the authors of the bible themselves did not know these things. I also picture it impossible for there not to be E.T life in the universe. If the universe is infitie, then there is an infinite possibility that there is other life. if so many forms of life were created on one planet, there MUST be more life else where in the universe. (of course, it will be so different from what we know we may not recognize it at first) OK, God would never be able to be proven scientifically. We all know that, stop saying that. God could have just put ALL of this history before us when he made us. How do you know? You can't. You simply can't. Um....This is weird. Usually in these kind of debates I'm anti-god.

2009-02-06 02:16:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Whaaaaale same happened to me, i was talking across the road and didn't see the car but then i tripped on a rock, and it ran over my finger so i had a broken finger instead of been dead xD Alot of these have happened to me.

2009-02-06 02:18:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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I agree awesomemans, just because WE need water doesn't mean all beings do. I do believe in evolution. Of course you dont see change happening before your eyes. Evolution occurs over millions of years. We have not always spoken and had literacy, we have evolved a large brain in order to cope with our enviornment (and our phyiscal weakness) Whaaaaale i do not believe you are ignorant or stupid at all. I completly see what you are saying. And congrats on NOT dying, miracle or not that is amazing. Have a good time at that party. And that is what these discussions do, they make you question what you actually believe. they make you see other points of views and are truly enlightening. P.S, weak PS3 fail thee-flash. I wish it a speedy recovery.

2009-02-06 02:19:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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How did someone come up with speech and words and numbers and letters and how did they teach others arrrrghhhh! EDIT: thanks man but i think it will be broken for a couple of months, our economy is getting worse by the second, i got redundant so no job so yea no ps3 for AGES =(

2009-02-06 02:22:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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unless matter and time started at the same time with space lol... no but my biggest beef is we lack waaay to much info to say anything and i really hate to say that its a magical thing that did it that we have no explanation for...seems so illogical to me. could of been multiple things... But if god is matter according to you he coudlnt of existed forever...that leaves what is he (we know matter exists we dont know magic exists) again im going to have to say its an easy out since the problem is we do lack so much information to prove anything. no one knows if the universe has always existed. or what started it or what the hell was there before it started. i just dont get how there could be a magical thing....no where? and create this universe...where was "god" when he created itHas anyone bothered to mention The Big Bang Theory? The accepted notion is that the big bang was the rapid expansion of space-time. All the matter in the universe was condensed into a singularity where the rules of space and time breaks down into quantum mechanics. This is just an amateur's understanding as I am not a physicist. Anyway, existance, time, and causality are not independent of the universe, but rather properties of it. To ask "What caused the big bang?" or "What was before the big bang?" is the same as asking "What is north of the north pole?". The question just doesn't apply. Causality doesn't apply to the big bang since there was no time before it. Even if this wasn't the case, using magic to cause the big bang just begs the question of "What is this magic?, Where'd it come from?, etc.". It replaces one unknown with another unknown and offers nothing of scientific knowledge. If it is just a personal decision to envoke magic, then just remember history's lesson that it's never magic. Fire gods, earth gods, water gods, Thor's lightning, gods that drag the sun across the sky, Satan's evil, etc.. It doesn't have good odds. That's all I'm saying.

2009-02-06 02:34:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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This is actually very mature religious debate, CONGRATS TO US ALL! *woo! Applauds*

2009-02-06 02:37:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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>.> if you take salt up into space it all sticks together, so all the little particles and all them little tiny things up there apparently stuck together until, they grew into a greater force and BOOM. Sorry don't believe it >.> although of course there is more to it than that but i don't understand alot of it.

2009-02-06 02:39:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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>.> if you take salt up into space it all sticks together, so all the little particles and all them little tiny things up there apparently stuck together until, they grew into a greater force and BOOM. Sorry don't believe it >.> although of course there is more to it than that but i don't understand alot of it.What? lol What is this about?

2009-02-06 02:42:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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i watched a show about the big bang theory, and they took salt into space and it all stuck together

2009-02-06 02:43:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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He's mocking the Big Bang Theory, and to that I can say... Scientists are trying to recreate a "Big Bang" so to speak... All I can say to this theory is... We are getting closer to trying to reinact one, and we can only wait, to see if that's what created everything, which doesn't really make sense to me. But meh, I don't want to get into that. K, done with my shower, now time to go. Like this time, seriously.

2009-02-06 02:43:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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No whaale i was not mocking it! i'm telling you what i got told >.>

2009-02-06 02:45:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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AS of now, i agree with the big bang theory as it is the most plausible explanation for the creation of everything (at least for me) It also explains why planets, galaxies etc... are constantly moving away from eachother at varying speeds, because of that initial explosion. Salt is totaly differnt, of course it will not "bang" there is not anywhere near enough force. There are so many anomlies in the universe (black holes, anti matter, quazars, naked singularities etc... that the big bang is not the most ridiculous thought out there. And i am very glad as well that we are all handling this like mature adults. (p.s, i am 15 so adults is used in a manner directed solely towards our argument methods and not our relative position in human development.)

2009-02-06 02:49:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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>.> i was using salt as an example xD matter like salt so particles all formed together to forum the bang they all stick together.

2009-02-06 02:53:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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the yo-yo theroy is that the universe goes through fluxuations. The big bang may have been one of many during the history of forever. The universe is constantly expanding. eventually it collapeses (dont ask how i dont remember) as it collapses all matter gets condensed into a very very small piece of space. (smaller than an atom) then the force gets released all at once creating the universe. again. of course this is just a theory and i am not sure if i believe it or not.

2009-02-06 02:56:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Now, let me ask you a question, if I was to say, "I'll give you a chocalate bar, after an infinite amount of time." Would you ever receive the chocalate bar? No you wouldn't, since we can't say "Okay, infinite amount of time has passed, pay up the chocalate." It wouldn't happen... So my next question is... Could there of been an infinite amount of time before right now? No, there couldn't of been because we never would of reached this moment in time. So we can conclude that time started a finite amount of time ago. We can determine, it started some time ago (time.) And before that, there was no time. Scientists have said, countless of numbers of times, that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed, they have tried, ( splitted an atom, but they have never destroyed, nor created one. ) So, has matter always existed? No, because you can't have matter without time, nor can you have matter without space. If you have matter... Where do you put it? (space) And when do you put it? (time) Nothing finite can be infinite (eternal). Since the universe is made of finite things (matter, time, space), it therefor must be created by something without time (timeless), thus making it eternal. If it is eternal, it must be infinite, so thus, something must of created time, space, and matter. It obviously must be something intelligent ( able to give/sustain us life, and give us elements to go through our daily lives, you can believe whatever you want that created this, BUT SOMETHING has to have created everything, I believe it is God. And with that, I leave this thread to never come back, I just hate talking about religious debates, nothing personal to any of you, I just don't like to argue, I can accept other people's beliefs, and I am in no way trying to point at any one, you can have your beliefs, and I have mine. Goodbye!VenomfangX (or Hovind), what are you doing here on lbpcentral? You belong on youtube. Here's a couple videos I just looked up picking it apart. YouTube - Re: Proof God is Real - Response to the video by VenomFangX YouTube - Re: Proof god is Real by VenomFangX YouTube - Re: Proof God is Real

2009-02-06 02:58:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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i didn't watch the whole resoponce (cause i am wicked tired) but i can figure what it is trying to say. (i will watch the rest i promise) But venomfangx is a terrible debater and i cannot believe his standpoint. He makes a totally onesided argument. he refuses to listen to other beliefs, insisting his belief is the one true way. He then goes around "proving islam is wrong" or "proving evolution is an evil lie from satin" he looks at everything from a heavily onesided viewpoint. If he is not willing to listen to objections and take them into consideration then i must belive that he does not believe his own argument enough to attempt to back it up. thats weak man. P.S. 100th post!

2009-02-06 03:04:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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I basically believe what whaaaaale said so that means I believe in God and I don't get how people can believe in evolution. and with that, I am going to do my math homework. good bye

2009-02-06 03:26:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'm not going to state my beliefs (although some of you may know them, I ask you keep that to yourself), but keep in mind that religious belief is usually set in stone. Not much less than a significant, life-altering event will change anyone's opinion, which is why I stopped trying years ago. My philosophy is this: believe what you want; I won't get in your way. However, please realize that your opinion could be incorrect (I know mine might be). The fact is, the world we see, hear, taste, touch, and smell ultimately amounts to electrical impulses in the brain. This makes the lens you see the world through a very biased one, so keep that in mind when expressing your opinion.

2009-02-06 05:44:00 Author: ConfusedCartman Posts: 3729

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My philosophy is "Believe what you want, but don't discriminate others, judge others, legislate your beliefs, or say excessively stupid things. If one of those are broken, then I might object to either your character or your belief system."

2009-02-06 05:52:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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I think that Big Bang Theory is partially a religious theory. They talk about a tiny speck of energy that existed before anything suddenly erupting and creating life as we know it. But scientists never try to explain how that speck got there, why did it explode and why was it there in the first place. A higher being perhaps? and just so you understand I'm not a religious person.

2009-02-06 12:35:00 Author: muttjones Posts: 843

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Wow, this has gone fairly smooth, I'm surprised. I'm agnostic at the moment, though I do believe in science, because there is no real proof for any religion or atheism. Thus, I leave.

2009-02-06 12:55:00 Author: Code1337 Posts: 3476

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He's Not The Messiah, He's A Very Naughty Boy YouTube - He's Not The Messiah

2009-02-06 14:14:00 Author: QuozL Posts: 921

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VenomfangX (or Hovind), what are you doing here on lbpcentral? You belong on youtube. Here's a couple videos I just looked up picking it apart. YouTube - Re: Proof God is Real - Response to the video by VenomFangX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9gKIn22qc) YouTube - Re: Proof god is Real by VenomFangX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTRwHL7HVjQ&feature=related) YouTube - Re: Proof God is Real (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVU3GDJtJec&feature=related) The classic controversial WWII/Sci-Fi/Time Travel book Slaughterhouse 5 uses the time theory in the first Video Response. It is really quite interesting and I urge you all to read it i you haven't.

2009-02-06 14:35:00 Author: muttjones Posts: 843

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Now, let me ask you a question, if I was to say, "I'll give you a chocalate bar, after an infinite amount of time." Would you ever receive the chocalate bar? No you wouldn't, since we can't say "Okay, infinite amount of time has passed, pay up the chocalate." It wouldn't happen... So my next question is... Could there of been an infinite amount of time before right now? No, there couldn't of been because we never would of reached this moment in time. So we can conclude that time started a finite amount of time ago. We can determine, it started some time ago (time.) And before that, there was no time. Scientists have said, countless of numbers of times, that matter cannot be created, nor destroyed, they have tried, ( splitted an atom, but they have never destroyed, nor created one. ) So, has matter always existed? No, because you can't have matter without time, nor can you have matter without space. If you have matter... Where do you put it? (space) And when do you put it? (time) Nothing finite can be infinite (eternal). Since the universe is made of finite things (matter, time, space), it therefor must be created by something without time (timeless), thus making it eternal. If it is eternal, it must be infinite, so thus, something must of created time, space, and matter. It obviously must be something intelligent ( able to give/sustain us life, and give us elements to go through our daily lives, you can believe whatever you want that created this, BUT SOMETHING has to have created everything, I believe it is God. And with that, I leave this thread to never come back, I just hate talking about religious debates, nothing personal to any of you, I just don't like to argue, I can accept other people's beliefs, and I am in no way trying to point at any one, you can have your beliefs, and I have mine. Goodbye! Are you this guy? vEXGKzH0F9c 0.o

2009-02-06 14:36:00 Author: ryryryan Posts: 3767

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I think that Big Bang Theory is partially a religious theory. They talk about a tiny speck of energy that existed before anything suddenly erupting and creating life as we know it. But scientists never try to explain how that speck got there, why did it explode and why was it there in the first place. and just so you understand I'm not a religious person. Look up string theory I wouldn't put it on myself to explain it but if you look it up on youtube you'll find a clear cut answer to what it is. Imagine giant plates whacking together and instead of broken shards of pottery and a loud noise you get another dimension. Personally I believe God is the perfect human. Who would not want to be God? He was created so that man would have something to aspire to and when a person died the soul of the person would then become part of what that perfection is. Way I see that joining him bit is, you need to test something to get it right; therefore with every human comes another combination of traits where one can say 'I want that, but not that'. This is also why the ideals change such as Christianity's approach to homosexuals and other religion.

2009-02-06 16:16:00 Author: Shermzor Posts: 1330

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I think that Big Bang Theory is partially a religious theory. They talk about a tiny speck of energy that existed before anything suddenly erupting and creating life as we know it. But scientists never try to explain how that speck got there, why did it explode and why was it there in the first place. A higher being perhaps? and just so you understand I'm not a religious person.As I said before, causality does not apply to the the big bang since time, existence, and causality cannot be known to be independent of the universe. Here is a video that shows it very clearly. YouTube - Refuting Kalam (Take 2) As for the tiny speck of energy, it is assumed (as far as I know) that matter and energy was condensed into a singularity that bent and broke the laws of space and time due to quantum mechanics of such an extreme situation. But it is not a religious theory as it is supported by evidence and has even made some predictions that we later discovered through observation. It is the best model of how we got where we are today from an objective viewpoint.

2009-02-06 17:19:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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Here's a CRAZY question....What is time?!? Does it even exist?

2009-02-06 19:55:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Here's a CRAZY question....What is time?!? Does it even exist? does anything even exist? maybe we're wrong about everything and we don't even exist ourselves.......

2009-02-06 19:59:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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does anything even exist? maybe we're wrong about everything and we don't even exist ourselves....... Maybe we're like a video game inside a videogame inside a video game inside a video game. And maybe whenever you die you just wake up in a different reality where that never happened and it was all a dream.

2009-02-06 20:08:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Maybe we're like a video game inside a videogame inside a video game inside a video game. And maybe whenever you die you just wake up in a different reality where that never happened and it was all a dream. the video game in a video game etc. etc. was at the end of the simpsons game also this scientest guy discovered that as people get more and more advanced. they'd be able to create things that think there humans. they could create practically infinte ammount of these so the odds we actually exist are miniscule.

2009-02-06 20:13:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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so are you saying since we will some day be able to create AI or something so advanced that they think their human there is a slim chance "we" actually exist? oh wait read it again you must be talking about the simpsons still?

2009-02-06 20:16:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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so are you saying since we will some day be able to create AI or something so advanced that they think their human there is a slim chance "we" actually exist? oh wait read it again you must be talking about the simpsons still? no i'm not talking about the simpsons. the reason we probably don't exist is they could contain the AI on a disc or something like that so we're probably the AI ( thats the theory anyway)

2009-02-06 20:19:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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now we are starting to get into the philosphical side of life. Do we even exist? How can i trust my thoughts? What are we and why are we here? What happens after death? Is there free will? These questions are really fun and mind bogling. They WILL turn your world upside down, i promise. another thing that is sort of going along the lines of AI is a point in time called the singularity (not to be confused with the singularity beginning of tie, or the singularity at the center of a black hole). The singularity is the point in time where the line between human and machine becomes so fogged over, you cannot tell any more. As time goes on, as humans, we will begin to combine ourselves with technology. Not just carrying around a cell phone, but litteraly implanting a phone chip inside ourselves, allowing us to call someone if we think it so. Eventually, we will begin to communicate with eachother telopathically, via computers and possible combine all our thoughts into a central brain, a "hive mind" if you will. Constantly thinking together, resolving disputes as fast as they arrive, we could turn the most advanced computer (our brains) and combine their power into a machine of unthinkable power. Basically, we would be the borg, for any of you who are star trek nerds like myself.

2009-02-06 21:56:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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now we are starting to get into the philosphical side of life. Do we even exist? How can i trust my thoughts? What are we and why are we here? What happens after death? Is there free will? These questions are really fun and mind bogling. They WILL turn your world upside down, i promise. another thing that is sort of going along the lines of AI is a point in time called the singularity (not to be confused with the singularity beginning of tie, or the singularity at the center of a black hole). The singularity is the point in time where the line between human and machine becomes so fogged over, you cannot tell any more. As time goes on, as humans, we will begin to combine ourselves with technology. Not just carrying around a cell phone, but litteraly implanting a phone chip inside ourselves, allowing us to call someone if we think it so. Eventually, we will begin to communicate with eachother telopathically, via computers and possible combine all our thoughts into a central brain, a "hive mind" if you will. Constantly thinking together, resolving disputes as fast as they arrive, we could turn the most advanced computer (our brains) and combine their power into a machine of unthinkable power. Basically, we would be the borg, for any of you who are star trek nerds like myself. Meh, I could care less, I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by the time anything like this was to happen.

2009-02-06 22:11:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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It's impossible for NOTHING to exist. WE may not technically exist- however, there has to be SOME plane that SOMETHING ACTUALLY exists- because, if not, then what we are would technically be classified as the plane of existence... After all, if "Nothing" exists... who's to SAY HOW existence can be calculated? There HAS to be something out there that exists, because if not... then what WE are WOULD technically count as existence.

2009-02-06 22:13:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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something obviously exists. It is the only way to explain why we are here. HOW we are here is another question. Are we the highest life form in the universe or are we just just an after thought by some super powerful being. But like you said, the definition of existance is rahter blurred, from our perspective we exist because we have impact on our surroundings. TECHNICALLY!!!!!! (major emphasis on that word) god exists as well. He has clearly had more of an impact on the world than i ever have, could or will. He might not be a tangible being, or an existant entity with thoughts and divine powers, but he most certainly exists within many of us. Love is also an intangible thing and yet it is hard to dispute that love is non-existant. i only believe in a "god" in that sense. not in the omnipotnet omniscient being that the bible and other texts claim him/they to be.

2009-02-06 22:44:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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One thing I sure do hate is when people say "God bless you all" and someone says "I don't believe in god." I hate when people are *******s like that. To me, saying that is like "Good Luck".

2009-02-06 23:21:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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One thing I sure do hate is when people say "God bless you all" and someone says "I don't believe in god." I hate when people are *******s like that. To me, saying that is like "Good Luck". Haha, that reminded me of this... YouTube - Dane Cook: Vicious Circle ~ "Athiest"

2009-02-07 00:08:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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I love that video. So funny. I also hate when people make a big deal about "god bless you" I choose not to say it, but i do not attack someone when they say it to me. They meant no harm and it really is a very minute thing. Now if they said "I hope god ****s you to an eternity in hell for your sinful ways!!!" I would be rather disgruntled to say the least.

2009-02-07 00:15:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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I love that video. So funny. I also hate when people make a big deal about "god bless you" I choose not to say it, but i do not attack someone when they say it to me. They meant no harm and it really is a very minute thing. Now if they said "I hope god ****s you to an eternity in hell for your sinful ways!!!" I would be rather disgruntled to say the least. Haha, good to know.

2009-02-07 00:18:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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i feel the same way. i know they dont mean any harm by it and its custom for them...now out of habit (that my mother gave me) when people sneeze i say bless you...no god in there but thats the only time i drop that..(she also drilled it in my head to open doors for people)

2009-02-07 00:22:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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I think you guys missed what I was saying. Just because you don't think god exists, saying something like "God be with you" or "God bless you" pretty much means I hope you have a good life.

2009-02-07 01:41:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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to certain people yes, to other people no it doesnt. For me It doesn't really mean that BUUUUUT I can understand it does for them so I dont get insulted or salty about it...the people that don't understand that are IMO inconsiderate of others feelings

2009-02-07 01:52:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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yea i see what you are saying. I still say stuff like "oh god no" "goddarn it" etc... not because i am wishing god to darn something, just out of habit, an expression.

2009-02-07 03:00:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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yea i see what you are saying. I still say stuff like "oh god no" "goddarn it" etc... not because i am wishing god to darn something, just out of habit, an expression. I have a religious friend, well.. half brother, who gets annoyed when I say Jesus christ, or God **** it or something, I'm sorry to say me and my mum find it hilarious :l we are both Atheist >.<

2009-02-07 08:29:00 Author: Boomy Posts: 3701

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I believe in God, and I'm not really in the mood for debate. But I hope I can come back some other time with the energy and the willpower and debate with some of you, it'll be awesome :]

2009-02-07 10:57:00 Author: Stix489 Posts: 2080

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I do actually envy people who beleive in God, must be nice to know that there is something after you die.

2009-02-07 11:42:00 Author: Boomy Posts: 3701

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Why do people fight over different beliefs, The war in Afghanistan was started over conflict on religion right..? Would god want this No.... only the jewish god but even the "Higher believer jews" Don't kill people for not believing in there god, What happens after death, Think about it is it the same as when you fall asleep, or does nothing happen and you lie there with your eyes closed and you try to open them but you can't is that hell, does heaven mean the right to dream, so as you lay there you can dream. Do you believe in the "second life" or as to say "Keep Re spawning" but with no knowledge of your past life, if so, what happens when the world dies, there will be a new one and no knowledge of the old one will be known, is that how this world started.

2009-02-07 11:47:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Why do people fight over different beliefs, The war in Afghanistan was started over conflict on religion right..? Would god want this No.... only the jewish god but even the "Higher believer jews" Don't kill people for not believing in there god, What happens after death, Think about it is it the same as when you fall asleep, or does nothing happen and you lie there with your eyes closed and you try to open them but you can't is that hell, does heaven mean the right to dream, so as you lay there you can dream. Do you believe in the "second life" or as to say "Keep Re spawning" but with no knowledge of your past life, if so, what happens when the world dies, there will be a new one and no knowledge of the old one will be known, is that how this world started. I don't know. Some people hate people who don't believe in their religion and feel they have to take it out on them in this life. If your religion is correct, people who don't believe in your religion will suffer in the afterlife, so stop worrying about it.

2009-02-07 12:21:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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The war in Afghanistan was started over conflict on religion right..? It was about capturing Bin laden, destroying al qaeda and removing the taliban regime.

2009-02-07 12:35:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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I don't know. Some people hate people who don't believe in their religion and feel they have to take it out on them in this life. If your religion is correct, people who don't believe in your religion will suffer in the afterlife, so stop worrying about it. There are people who hate you for not believing in their religion, there are people who respect your beliefs, or lack thereof, and there are people who really and truly care about you and try their best to convert you to their beliefs in fear of your soul. You just have to know which is which, and treat them accordingly. I for one respect everyone's beliefs. But respect does not mean I will take kindly to your disrespect or hatred towards my belief, and so on and so forth. You respect my belief, I respect you. You disrespect my belief, I don't respect you. But in the end, I'm not the one to change your mind about things, only you can do such a thing.

2009-02-07 12:40:00 Author: Stix489 Posts: 2080

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I think that both sides of the coin, both religion are atheism have to many Zealots who feel its they're job to prove how the other side is wrong. Generally if people find comfort and peace in religion I say don't try and prove why the things they enjoy are wrong, and if people want to believe that religion is a lie dont keep telling them they will burn in the fires of hell. So really my views fall along the lines of "If you stop telling me why its wrong not to believe, I'll stop telling you why its wrong to believe" I know a majority of people on both sides are happy with the other and respect theyre choices...but some people just don't seems to understand this. I personally believe in a grey area in between, While I prefer the explanations of science I think its naive to think that there isn't some greater purpose to it all.

2009-02-07 13:49:00 Author: Mrgenji Posts: 803

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There are definatley way to many people in the world, of all religions and beliefs that try to hard to push their beliefs upon others. Many people also use the religion to attempt to dictate personal matters of other people. Key example, homosexual marriage. At least in america, I know that many christians and catholics are extremely biased against homosexual marriage. I say that they have no right to tell these people how to live their lives. They say "god will punish you" but wouldn't god, an inifintly powerful being, not be judgemental. Humans are so discriminative and racist, (dont try to deny cause history shows it again and again) and hate is a very human emotion. If god did create all of us then dont you think he wouldn't mind how some of his beloved children choose to live their lives, assuming they are being good people??? I can still respect that some people say it is against the bible, but the bible tells YOU how to live, not others. Homosexual marriage is clearly a government, and legal matter. Therefore, religious beliefs should have no part in dictating who can and cannot get married. That whole seperation of church and state thing really comes into play here. -rabid coot, there are definatley more hidden reasons for the war in iraq besides the ones we have been told. it is natural for the gov to keep secrets from us. probably better for us as well

2009-02-07 14:32:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Goodness, what a long thread. All this information within the space of one day. O_o I'm a Christian. I have been for a long time, and I've studied theology and nearly have a diploma in that subject. I've worked as a missionary for 3 years and have, can and do tell people, both strangers and friends, about the good news about what Jesus has done for us. There are just far too many wriggly lines of debate for me to latch on to. But let me point out a few new ones. If people want me to address a specific issue, I'll do my best. I do have a lot of experience at this, but I certainly don't know everything. It's just from experience hard to engage individuals in a collective environment like a forum. It's much easier to dialogue personally on a one on one sort of level, so that you can be heard and listened to and vice versa for the other person. As I said, I've been telling people the good news about Jesus. But it's not from an abnoxious point of view, and not with an unwillingness to listen to others. Think of it like this though. A person's house is on fire. Why wouldn't you warn them that this is the case and they need to leave the building right away? It's plain silly not to tell them such things. That's how I view such discussions. It's important, life changing news, and it's a very good thing for other people to know about it. Whether they choose to exit the building or not is their decision, I can't force them to do so (in a philosophical sense) but it's just plain wrong to not talk to them about it. I often find though that people argue from a point of ignorance. It's like me talking about the Harry Potter series. I have the books, I've heard about some of the plot lines, but I haven't actually read the books, seen the films, played the games, or any other such thing. All I've done is heard about them indirectly. It's like that with many people and Jesus. They have heard about him, but they haven't really explored the Bible for themselves, they just use other people's viewpoints as justifications for their own. Please don't misunderstand me though. My aim is not to cause agressive arguments, or alienate or annoy people. But I'll be listening in to what's being said on this thread with some interest...

2009-02-07 17:01:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Its always good to have views from every angle elbee. I personally wouldnt view it as telling people theyre house was on fire though. When people come up to me to spread the good news about Jesus/Allah/Chuck norris, I'd put it more under the catagory of telling me not to eat eggs because I might die of colesterol. A house on fire is under no debate, its universaly agreed (excpet perhaps by firemen on commision) as being a bad thing. How the choices people make in life effect them afterwards is a major unknown. Someone telling me my house is on fire is one thing, but someone telling me that If I dont do XYZ I might possibly suffer somewhere that has not been proven exist is another. Then again it all depends how you define proof, and the old proof vs faith argument. Actually all this rambling I typed does lead me to a question for you Elbee (or anyone really) - what is faith? The most common use of "having faith" in religion seems to involve not needing to prove anything, but there has to be more to it than another way to say "god moves in mysterious ways".

2009-02-07 17:20:00 Author: Mrgenji Posts: 803

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Well, a house on fire and eggs and cholestoral are kind of a similar thing. You can inform people good and important news, but it's up to the individual to choose what to do with that information. You don't have to move if someone tells you your house is on fire, that's entirely your choice. Just be aware of the consequences of choices you make, like eggs and cholestoral. --- Faith is very similar to trust. Trust is "Believing in" something that is in the past or present. I "trust" that this bridge I see before me will hold my weight as I walk across it. Faith is a future tense of the same idea. I have "faith" that there will be a bridge when I step out, even if I can't see it because of, say, a dense fog or a blindfold. They are very similar terms, but people often just assume faith refers to the metaphysical. O_o So in reference to "proof vs faith", they are also similar terms. Proof is undeniable evidence of the existance of something. Faith is trusting in evidence or testimony, either of your own or someone elses. We have trust and faith in all sorts of things, physical and metaphysical, we just don't realise it. If we don't have these things, we just can't function as human beings. We exist in a material universe not as unique beings but part of a larger whole. If we have no faith or trust, we can't function, no matter how you look at it. I don't have "faith" in a religious sense based on a feeling or because someone has told me, although that is a part of it. I've researched it, studied it, asked questions of others about it, and have then come to "faith" based on the evidence that I have found. Indeed, God does move in mysterious ways. If you take the assumption that God is metaphysical, a supernatural identity outside of reality, then well, we just have no clue at all. We never can, and we never will. It's just completely beyond our realm of existance, something we can never know. The amazing thing is that God has revealed Himself to us. And I believe (have faith) that he did this through the person of Jesus Christ. We can't know God. But He has made Himself known to us, which is pretty mind blowing.

2009-02-07 17:40:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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The one thing that I struggle to understand about faith is that we're meant to have faith in religion but if we are meant to have faith why don't we have faith in every reliigion and every random guy wh claims he is the next Jesus or saviour or whatever. like how do we know which religion to have faith in?

2009-02-07 17:44:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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I agree with you vhalt. please dont take this the wrong way anyone but, it is a total possibillity that those people who wrote the bible, and the gospels; the people who saw jesus and witnessed his miracles, what if they were lying. They COULD HAVE been writing fiction, a great epic story. I know this might offend people, please dont take it as such as i am just proposing a possibillity.

2009-02-07 22:43:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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I agree with you vhalt. please dont take this the wrong way anyone but, it is a total possibillity that those people who wrote the bible, and the gospels; the people who saw jesus and witnessed his miracles, what if they were lying. They COULD HAVE been writing fiction, a great epic story. I know this might offend people, please dont take it as such as i am just proposing a possibillity. I know what you mean someone a 1000 years from now might look at I dunno maybe the movie BRuce almighty and think that's what god is and that we were worshiping him. Also on my personal beliefs in god I'm currently unsure if God exists and if so which god I really don't think the concept of the big bang is very logical though. Also I heard that it was matimatically impossible for all the variables to happen for the universe to be created by accident/ chance.

2009-02-07 22:49:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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I agree with you vhalt. please dont take this the wrong way anyone but, it is a total possibillity that those people who wrote the bible, and the gospels; the people who saw jesus and witnessed his miracles, what if they were lying. They COULD HAVE been writing fiction, a great epic story. I know this might offend people, please dont take it as such as i am just proposing a possibillity. It is a possibility, but how could they predict the future? If you read Revelations, it talks about how the end of the world will have, An increased amount of Gays and Lesbians. A horrible economy. War/Famine. Much more that I can't think of right now... I mean, I can see the possibility of writing it, but there is so much written in the Bible, and a lot of it is actually happening, right now. Or has happened in the past.

2009-02-07 22:50:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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i see what you mean but honetstly, it isn't to hard to predict something like that. Seing as how they wrote it a few thousand years ago, they had plenty of time for those things to come true. for example: as time goes on, people will destroy each other. Now, that is an extemely general statement, eventually, it is virtualy impossible for it NOT to come true. I also predict that the world will explode. I dont say when, i just say it will. if it does, it does, and if it doesn't, who knows...maybe tomorrow? I anyone can make a prediction and things as general as "more wars" is to general to describe as "godly" or however you wish to describe it.

2009-02-07 22:54:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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It is a possibility, but how could they predict the future? If you read Revelations, it talks about how the end of the world will have, An increased amount of Gays and Lesbians. A horrible economy. War/Famine. I mean, I can see the possibility of writing it, but there is so much written in the Bible, and a lot of it is actually happening, right now. Or has happened in the past. The world hasn't actually ended though like I mean ok the worlds economy is messed up now but there's way less famines now then there was in the past. And predicting there will be war/ famines was fairly easy I mean there's always war and famine to some degree so it was kinda obvious that tyre ould be more sometimes and less someimes. Also I don't mean. To offend anybody by what I'm saying so sorry if I do/ have

2009-02-07 22:55:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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I agree with you vhalt. please dont take this the wrong way anyone but, it is a total possibillity that those people who wrote the bible, and the gospels; the people who saw jesus and witnessed his miracles, what if they were lying. They COULD HAVE been writing fiction, a great epic story. I know this might offend people, please dont take it as such as i am just proposing a possibillity. YouTube - Missing Bible Page (Red Dwarf - Funny)

2009-02-07 22:56:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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hahaha, that is funny. And it is what i am trying to say.

2009-02-07 22:57:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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LOL at that video rabidcoot. So I was thinking if god exists might he have his own god he prays to and that god have a god he prays to?

2009-02-07 22:59:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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The world hasn't actually ended though like I mean ok the worlds economy is messed up now but there's way less famines now then there was in the past. And predicting there will be war/ famines was fairly easy I mean there's always war and famine to some degree so it was kinda obvious that tyre ould be more sometimes and less someimes. Also I don't mean. To offend anybody by what I'm saying so sorry if I do/ have Well actually, I was just using general statements, it goes into depth, and it almost points out it will happen around this time. It talks about how the Gays/Lesbians will fight for what they believe in, yes I do know that anyone can predict that, but how did they know they would keep fighting? Prop 8 was passed, but I just saw another billboard, stating to Vote No on Prop 8. Seems to me that they're still fighting. And the war, famine idea. Yes there isn't much famine, and the economy is not messed up, that's an understatement, the economy is screwed. It'll take at least 10 years to pull us out of this hole. I mean where I live, California, we are in debt, I believe in billions of dollars. In about a year or so, they state that we will have a daily amount of water we can use, after that our water will be shut down, I don't see this as a small thing, and the Bible does predict something EXACTLY like this. And wars? They stated that we would fight for something that we don't need, ( Oil, we really don't need it. We can go green, but nooooo, let's listen to the Gas/Oil companies. ) They also stated it would last for a long time ( Yes I know, WWII lasted longer, but no one knows how long this war will last. ) So all in all, I was just using general statements, but the Bible goes into huge detail as to when, where, and why it will happen.

2009-02-07 23:00:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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And the war, famine idea. Yes there isn't much famine, and the economy is not messed up, that's an understatement, the economy is screwed. It'll take at least 10 years to pull us out of this hole. I mean where I live, California, we are in debt, I believe in billions of dollars. And wars? They stated that we would fight for something that we don't need, ( Oil, we really don't need it. We can go green, but nooooo, let's listen to the Gas/Oil companies. ) They also stated it would last for a long time ( Yes I know, WWII lasted longer, but no one knows how long this war will last. ) So all in all, I was just using general statements, but the Bible goes into huge detail as to when, where, and why it will happen. Who exactly is "we" in the oil thing if I recall right it was america who wanted the oil so maybe the end of America and not the world andthe economy isn't as bad as in the depression. Also there has been wars fought forever over surf that isn't needed.

2009-02-07 23:07:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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People have always fought for things they dont need. That is a cause for plenty of wars. The crusades for example, was fought by the christians in europe. THey went around europe slaughtering all non-believers. They were not fighting. for something that they NEEDED, they simply fought, to purify the lands. Concerning your statment "it will take us 10 years to pull us out of this hole" i disagree with that statement (completly unreligious btw). ONe bad thing about capitalism is that it bends and fluctuates often. Every 20 years or so since the founding of this nation, we have expierenced a recession. It is how capitalism works. I think that we are already very near the bottom if not at it already. We SHOULD (dont hold me to it) begin to recover soon. But in the long existance of earth, after that was written, it is extremely probable that those things would happen eventually. Also, it is our duty, not our leaders to go green. They can refuse to make progress (obama should be working towards is soon though). WE have to begin to make a difference because we are the only ones who can. BTW, if you havn't noticed, i am a very liberal thinker. going Green, toleration of everyone, etc...

2009-02-07 23:08:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Well actually, I was just using general statements, it goes into depth, and it almost points out it will happen around this time. It talks about how the Gays/Lesbians will fight for what they believe in, yes I do know that anyone can predict that, but how did they know they would keep fighting? Prop 8 was passed, but I just saw another billboard, stating to Vote No on Prop 8. Seems to me that they're still fighting. And the war, famine idea. Yes there isn't much famine, and the economy is not messed up, that's an understatement, the economy is screwed. It'll take at least 10 years to pull us out of this hole. I mean where I live, California, we are in debt, I believe in billions of dollars. In about a year or so, they state that we will have a daily amount of water we can use, after that our water will be shut down, I don't see this as a small thing, and the Bible does predict something EXACTLY like this. And wars? They stated that we would fight for something that we don't need, ( Oil, we really don't need it. We can go green, but nooooo, let's listen to the Gas/Oil companies. ) They also stated it would last for a long time ( Yes I know, WWII lasted longer, but no one knows how long this war will last. ) So all in all, I was just using general statements, but the Bible goes into huge detail as to when, where, and why it will happen. Of course gays will fight for their right to be ***... We have freedom of speech in this country. Who is they?

2009-02-07 23:18:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Anyway what exactly is prop 8? EDIT: whaaale are you saying according to the bible the world will end soon. (sorry if I read that wrong but thtas what it seemed like) if so is it that 2012 thing or something different

2009-02-07 23:21:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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well a while ago california deemed same sex marriage legal, becoming the 3rd state in the U.S to do so. Prop 8 revoked that right, making it illegal for gays to get married. A particularly terrbile thing if you ask me. It blatently denies many of the essential freedoms that this country was founded upon. And the majority reason for voting against gays is because "the bible says it is wrong" that CLEARLY should have NO impact upon who can get married seeing as how the bible is a religious text, not an official government document. And the 2012 thing is mayan. The ancient Mayan calender ends on december 21, 2012 (12,21,12). I dont believe this but lots of people think they may be right about it.

2009-02-07 23:28:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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What that's messed up people should b allowed to do what they like once it doesn't damage people (dont give me that moral fibre bull) I mean even if I did belief the bible word for word I'd still want people to be allowed to be able to what they want and make there own decisions.

2009-02-07 23:35:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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I think this whole "The bible predicts the future" can be covered with one quote from the man who brough tit up: but there is so much written in the Bible You know the saying about gamblers, who never stop talking about the time they won the jackpot - but never mention all the times they lost? Same thing, at the end of the day its more interesting to beleive the bible is predicting the future.

2009-02-08 00:13:00 Author: Mrgenji Posts: 803

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Just another tought about god what if he's just like us not powerful and with a big white beard but just a normal guy?

2009-02-08 00:59:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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Just another tought about god what if he's just like us not powerful and with a big white beard but just a normal guy? >.> a normal guy that can create universes, Yep, very normal lol but i can see where your coming from

2009-02-08 01:03:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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>.> a normal guy that can create universes, Yep, very normal lol but i can see where your coming from Well normal in terms of personality and not being perfect and stuff not in terms of power

2009-02-08 01:08:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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I think the old saying god created humans in his image is false. If anything, we created HIM in OUR image. When we cannot explain things, or would like a sense of purpose, we created this creator this, GOD. He controls everything, creates eveything and knows everything. We made him to look like us, and say it in reverse, to convince ourselves the we for some reason are more special than other creatures around us.

2009-02-08 01:12:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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It's not fair to say God, because of Everyone's different beliefs and views, and Everyone believes in ALOT of different gods, so you can't single it down to just god it's not fair, Hmmm But in my view, any god has to be perfect, so i'm saying no mistakes is allowed from him. But, if god is not real Whoever created him has brought happiness joy and love to SO MANY PEOLE!!

2009-02-08 01:15:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Let's just not have the question of gods exsistance for a sec if god exsisted and had human like emotions I would explain a lot. Like when he's mad he'd take his anger out on us by floods and famines. Or maybe god created the universe and then stopswith it alltogether Oh and btw the way I think of god isn't really in the normal god is perfect way but just that god created us and is very very powerful and may or may not be perfect ( if he exsist at all)

2009-02-08 01:17:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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i I know what your saying flash. I am mainly referring to the christian/catholic typical god when i speak because that is the idea of god i am most familiar with. I know a bit about other religon's gods but not much. And while he/she/it/they have brought much joy to the world, god (from all standpoints) is the biggest murderer in history. countless wars in history, have started out as a religious dispute. The crusades, WWII, the holocaust, the war on terror, muslim extremists martyring themselves to reach paradise in the afterlife, all driven by god and religious beliefs. I like what the idea/physical manifestation of god has tried to do, but humans misinterpret things and become extreme, leading to violence.

2009-02-08 01:22:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Well, ranger you have kind of opened my eyes, If god exists he can't be perfect, if he created us and where not perfect how can he be perfect, No one has said anything on the DEVIL, maybe the devil created half and god created half.

2009-02-08 01:27:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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I think in the crusades they used god only as an excuse and if religion never exsisted they would have found another excuse for violence a lot of the time

2009-02-08 01:27:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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Merlin, Preachers and all guys like that These days would be locked up in a straight jacket, You never know if they could be genuine messengers from the gods.

2009-02-08 01:31:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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i know i havn't brought the devil up yet because i am traveling under the assumption that there is no god and therefore no devil. But i guess that is another viable discussion topic. And of course people would still find reasons to fight eachother, human nature is strange and it often drives us to fight eachother. it is very sad. I always wonder about the day when people realize that blowing the living snot out of eachother is not doing anything for us. I think that if this day can ever come it will be because we discover other intelligent life in the galaxy/universe... Or if we discover that god truly does exist. because at that point in time people may begin to realize that we are not so important. we may finally realize how insignificant we truly are. Maybe one day... hopefully.

2009-02-08 01:32:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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human nature is strange and it often drives us to fight eachother. Thats just nature, individuals and groups fighting other individuals or groups for food, teritory or the best mate.

2009-02-08 01:37:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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Thats just nature, individuals and groups fighting other individuals or groups for food, teritory or the best mate. Sometimes humans seem to do it to no reason though and we are meant to be civalised it's sad really.

2009-02-08 01:41:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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Blame it on the cave men.

2009-02-08 01:41:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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true, it isn't only limited to humans. But other creatures do it out of necessitaty. They do not have the same abillity to talk things over, and work out complex problems. They are muchmore primitive. We on the other hand, have advnaced forms of communication (language and writing) and we should be able to look past petty differences. humans are the only specis that goes around, promoting the belief in a god and then attacking (verbaly and violently) those who do not believe the same. Humans have also screwed up the natural order of things. We mate now for love, and companionship. All other species mate based upon physical fitness and the desire to pass on the most beneficial traits to the next generation. We will marry someone because they are nice and funny, even if they are born with a rare genetic mutation. Of course, i wont change that because it is what feels right to me, finding a mate based on compatability still... P.S. i often blame lots of stuff on humanity as a whole. This does NOT mean i think i am any different. I to suffer from human nature. (believe it or not :o) DANG CAVEMEN!!! WITH THEIR PRETTY LITTLE WALL PICTURES!!!

2009-02-08 01:45:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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At least we didn't pick the the prayer mantis trait, Eating our partner after mating >.>

2009-02-08 01:47:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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speak for youself... wait i mean.....:blush: never mind. We can always stoop lower.

2009-02-08 01:49:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Lol >.> would we want to go lower than that, eating our lovers what's next.

2009-02-08 01:54:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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whats next is eating other people's lovers. Not only did we eat someone, we eat someone that another person was planning on eating. It is stealing AND cannibalism. THAT is low.

2009-02-08 01:55:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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there's 2 species beside humans which mate other then to have new stronger children or whatever, I forget which 2 though

2009-02-08 02:00:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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i think you are right. another difficult question to answer is this. Do we have free will? This question can be just as hard to answer as does god exist. I am very torn on this subject, much more so than over the existance of god. on an technical view, i do not think that we do. If our thoughts and ideas are just electric impulses shooting around our brains, then those impulses have a very structured method to them. If they are defined already and simply move in different patterns to simulate different "thoughts" They might all happen is specific orders, leading to other impulses creating a long chain that we have taken to understand as our lives. but the fact that there are so many people, all very different doing different things would imply that we do indeed have free will and that we can actually influnece our lives and the lives of those around us.

2009-02-08 02:06:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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well I think we have at least some free will like you do some things like we are breathing automatically but we can consously make a decision to stop which implies we have free will it's not proof though so who knows? And on another note if god exists we definatly have free will.

2009-02-08 02:10:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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but what if it was already determined at the creation of the universe that you would "purposly" stop breathing at that very second, and that you would believe it was free will. If god exists, maybe we do not have free will. What if we THINK that he is a kind, loving being. but he is really a mean creature, that has said that we WILL think this for eternity for his personal enjoyment. Always a possibility.

2009-02-08 02:16:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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but what if it was already determined at the creation of the universe that you would "purposly" stop breathing at that very second, and that you would believe it was free will. If god exists, maybe we do not have free will. What if we THINK that he is a kind, loving being. but he is really a mean creature, that has said that we WILL think this for eternity for his personal enjoyment. Always a possibility. Well I did say it only implies we have free will and wasn't definate And as for the second paragraph god = good if there was a bad god like thing it would be the devil not god

2009-02-08 02:19:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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well that is assuming our definiton of "god" is accurate. many cultures have "evil" gods. Not called the devil, just bad gods.

2009-02-08 02:36:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Yeah I guess. I'd define god as a being who started the world who's eitheir good or neitheir good or evil I could be wrong though Kinda offtopic: someone needs to go post in the spam can I need some lighthearted posts aswell. XD (seriously though) Edit how do we even know the thing we name god is even called god it could be called jim or something just as easy

2009-02-08 02:39:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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hahaha, dear jim, please end world hunger. love, me....; no, i dont think jim quite fits. I dont think it really needs a title, assuming it is all powerful

2009-02-08 02:54:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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hahaha, dear jim, please end world hunger. love, me....; no, i dont think jim quite fits. I dont think it really needs a title, assuming it is all powerful Yeah well non all powerful people need something to call it why not jim instead of god XD Seriously though how did god get chosen as gods name anyway.

2009-02-08 03:06:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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well a while ago california deemed same sex marriage legal, becoming the 3rd state in the U.S to do so. Prop 8 revoked that right, making it illegal for gays to get married. A particularly terrbile thing if you ask me. It blatently denies many of the essential freedoms that this country was founded upon. And the majority reason for voting against gays is because "the bible says it is wrong" that CLEARLY should have NO impact upon who can get married seeing as how the bible is a religious text, not an official government document. And the 2012 thing is mayan. The ancient Mayan calender ends on december 21, 2012 (12,21,12). I dont believe this but lots of people think they may be right about it. 2012, ah, like 6/6/06....Nothing will happen 2012 except a bunch of terrible remakes of horror movies and crazy people telling everyone it will be the end of the world. Then I go to sleep that night and wake up the next morning and nothing has changed. Assuming that 6/6/06 may have been one of the most boring days of my life, I assume that the day....4 days before christmas will be one of those days too. Oh, and if the world does end then, and there is a god, I'm whupping his *** for ending the world 4 days before christmas. ...I mean what a jerk, right?

2009-02-08 03:10:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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LOL boxing fight of the year awseomans versus God

2009-02-08 03:17:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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It's not fair to say God, because of Everyone's different beliefs and views, and Everyone believes in ALOT of different gods, so you can't single it down to just god it's not fair, Hmmm But in my view, any god has to be perfect, so i'm saying no mistakes is allowed from him. But, if god is not real Whoever created him has brought happiness joy and love to SO MANY PEOLE!! No. If God exists, he is imperfect. We live in an imperfect world. There is death and famine and crime all over the place. There is pain and suffering. God is imperfect. And I'd knock god out.

2009-02-08 03:22:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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assuming he is real, and we all perish 4 days before x-mas i will back you up. God and jesus vs. u and me in a tag team battle royal. it will be for the fate of the universe. another good question for all of you theists out there. If god is all powerful, could he make a boulder so heavy, even he could not lift it. or the simpsons version, could god create a burrito so hot even he couldnt eat it.

2009-02-08 03:23:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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yeah and then to prove he was god he'd lift it XD

2009-02-08 03:24:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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No. If God exists, he is imperfect. We live in an imperfect world. There is death and famine and crime all over the place. There is pain and suffering. God is imperfect. And I'd knock god out. i don't think you sore my other post >.>

2009-02-08 03:24:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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but if god is all powerful, he should be able to do anything, even make an infitley heavy boulder/hot burrito.

2009-02-08 03:25:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Yeah and then he'd lift boulder and eat burrito Sertiously there's no answer what happens when an irresistable force hits a unmovable object?

2009-02-08 03:28:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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exactly, i think the only logical answer is that the universe implodes, ending everything.

2009-02-08 03:30:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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If god is all powerful he should make a Crane and ride around in it over buildings and get knives and fight cats named spiderman. /Jerry Jackson @ Vhalt There's a huge krrmshplosion. That's what happened when I battled Hades when I escaped from Hell and then ate Zeus's eyeball. /Godofwar but anyway, what if god was like some dood in greenz who w3nt around to save t3h lad135 and killed a monster but when he died he krmsphloded too. /Zelda and @ Chiropractor, luckily for us, there ARE no immovable objects in this universe, so rejoice. ....Except maybe dark matter.....

2009-02-08 03:31:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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oooohhhh, getting into the conundrum of dark matter are we... The material that we cannot see and yet makes up over 2/3 of the galaxy. oh man, and there are no immovable objects, or unstoppable forces. so that will never happen.

2009-02-08 03:33:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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So if there is any religious people on I'd like to know what they think of the rock so heavy god can't lift it?

2009-02-08 03:35:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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oooohhhh, getting into the conundrum of dark matter are we... The material that we cannot see and yet makes up over 2/3 of the galaxy. oh man, and there are no immovable objects, or unstoppable forces. so that will never happen. Wait, no, I just thought of this. I would have to say if an immovable object hit an irresistible force, then they would both move at the same speed, but then the irresistible force would cease to be irresistible and the immovable object would be moving... Or maybe it would move the whole universe. Because I doubt we are the only universe. We are but one universe in the....um....multiverse?

2009-02-08 03:37:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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even getting into the topics of alternate dimensons and more universes. interesting. very interesting. i honestly think that if those two objects met a few things could happen. If the immoveable object is breakable, the unstoppable force would punch a hole right through it. otherwise, it would probably create some very strange cosmic annamolly, the likes of which we cannot even imagine.

2009-02-08 03:41:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Then again, this kind of argument is the same as "What if it began raining gumballs" and what if planets were made out of gumballs and what if we were all actually little gumballs in a gumball machine. Completely awesome.

2009-02-08 03:46:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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honestly, if it started to rain gumballs, it would not be the strangest thing to have ever happened in our galaxy. There is some crazy stuff out there. Black holes aren't even as crazy as it gets. The amount of unbelievable stuff out there is fascinating.

2009-02-08 04:14:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Why don't the other planets have life.

2009-02-08 04:56:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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Goodness. This conversation is moving so quick. As I said before, far too often in a multiperson medium it's nearly impossible to address every point. I'll just try and address some of the more recent ones... I use as my reference point the Bible. I believe it to be a reliable document, and it's my main proof of text. My God described is metaphysical, supernatural, not limited by time or space. So that's the first problem with the idea of making a boulder so big He cannot lift it. He's not bound by the physical plane, so it's something that can never ever happen except in the place of a philosophical argument. The other problem with the super-sized boulder thing is that we are trying to bring human ideas to describe God. Being metaphysical and supernatural, we by that very nature cannot know Him, but He has choosen to reveal Himself to us through the Bible. The God of the Bible HAS limitations. He cannot sin, for example. It's human fallicy to assume that God can do everything. He is bound within Himself, and has His own limitations. That does not mean He is bound to the physical plane. He's metaphysical, and by nature of that word is beyond such things. He can (and has) created everything we can see, smell, taste, touch, hear or just plain sense. He's OUTSIDE of creation, so he cannot be bound by it. It's like tying air down with chains. It's just nonsense, the two things are completely different. Yes, of course you can supercool air and so on and so on, but again, that's ignoring the initial point. The two things are completely different, that's my point. The really mind blowing thing though is that God limited Himself in a very big way, by taking human form as Jesus. He was fully human, meaning that He was bound by the same limitations we have, like gravity, exhaustion and death, but He was fully God as well, something beyond the world we live in. It's a great mystery, the incarnation is the technical term for this. I don't mean mystery in that we don't know anything about it, but rather it's just completely beyond our understanding to fully understand. We can come close, but it's pretty mind blowing stuff. God had everything, yet he put it aside to be able to relate to us and restore our relationship with Him. --- I'll just address one more point in that last post. I don't know about life on other planets. We haven't found any yet, and the Bible does not talk about it. But if you look at the amazingly small chance that life as we know it formed, that being the right temperature, air mix, water not freezing or boiling and having enough of it, the right atomic mix for proteins, the complexity of DNA and RNA, well, I just find it highly unlikely that we will find anything else out there. Even if there was life out there, we can't break the light barrier. We can't live long enough to get much further than the closest star to us. We don't have a way to communicate faster than light, so even if we send probes out there, they travel say 1000 light years, and then report back, it's still going to take well over 2000 years for the information to get back to us. By which time we will all be dead and you will still have to face the existance of God for yourself in this lifetime. The existance of extra-terrestial life has no real impact with the challenge that God puts before us, of that having a problem by doing the wrong thing, and how we are going to deal with that problem. --- I'm not checking this thread every hour, I have other responsibilities on this forum and life in general, but I'll keep reading and keep doing my best to answer people's questions.

2009-02-08 05:47:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Why don't the other planets have life. They most likely, definitely do, somewhere.

2009-02-08 07:55:00 Author: Boomy Posts: 3701

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If a god(s) were to exist, we can deduce some qualities by looking at the world around us. 1) Suffering exists in this world. 2) Suffering must have been created or ignored by a god(s). 3) To create or ignore suffering is bad. 4) Therefore, a god(s) cannot be all-good (doesn't care that there is suffering), all-knowing (doesn't know that there is suffering), and all-powerful (or is powerless to stop the suffering). One of those qualities of a god(s) is flawed in order to arrive at the world we see today. This is the famous Epicurus argument from back in the day. Of course, this argument is completely subjective based on what the audience definition of "good" , "suffering", and "bad" to be. It is a possibility, but how could they predict the future? If you read Revelations, it talks about how the end of the world will have, An increased amount of Gays and Lesbians. A horrible economy. War/Famine. Much more that I can't think of right now... I mean, I can see the possibility of writing it, but there is so much written in the Bible, and a lot of it is actually happening, right now. Or has happened in the past. I know this is a late response, but here we go. Have you heard of the term "Life imitates art"? The fact that the United States backed the creation of Israel was a combination of sympathy for the Jewish people after the holocaust and trying to fulfill a prophesy in the Bible as this country is overwhelmingly Christian and that would signal the return of Jesus. As for a horrible economy, that could be applied to any age from the German economic collapse after WWI, the always crappy economy of poor African countries, or The Great Depression. The same argument goes to war. It could be applied to any age in history. Gays and Lesbians. Genetics plays a role in this so I find it unfair for God to judge somebody based on a condition that he helped create. The Bible is not reliable as it is filled with obvious falsehoods, which kind've hurts the credibility with me. Any book that says a guy can kill hundreds of men with a jaw of a ram is losing some points.

2009-02-08 08:38:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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If a god(s) were to exist, we can deduce some qualities by looking at the world around us. 1) Suffering exists in this world. 2) Suffering must have been created or ignored by a god(s). 3) To create or ignore suffering is bad. 4) Therefore, a god(s) cannot be all-good (doesn't care that there is suffering), all-knowing (doesn't know that there is suffering), and all-powerful (or is powerless to stop the suffering). One of those qualities of a god(s) is flawed in order to arrive at the world we see today. This is the famous Epicurus argument from back in the day. Of course, this argument is completely subjective based on what the audience definition of "good" , "suffering", and "bad" to be. I'll answer this, as quick as possible. Suffering does exist in this world, but it was not created by God, nor ignored by him. Is there such a thing as cold? No. Is there such a thing as heat? No... Not making sense? Well let me tell you why, you can have, a lot of heat, super heat, mega heat, OMGWTFKINDA heat, etc... But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, just the absence of it. Another question, is there such a thing as darkness? No, there isn't. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Now onto my point, God never created evil, death, murder, rape, and all that evil stuff. Evil is just the absence of God, it's a word "we" the humans, made up. Much like the words "darkness" and "cold." God never created "evil" or "suffering" it's just the absence of him.

2009-02-08 09:45:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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honestly, if it started to rain gumballs, it would not be the strangest thing to have ever happened in our galaxy. There is some crazy stuff out there. Black holes aren't even as crazy as it gets. The amount of unbelievable stuff out there is fascinating. Like how there's a planet made out of cake and Mario Galaxy is based off of real galaxies? I'll answer this, as quick as possible. Suffering does exist in this world, but it was not created by God, nor ignored by him. Is there such a thing as cold? No. Is there such a thing as heat? No... Not making sense? Well let me tell you why, you can have, a lot of heat, super heat, mega heat, OMGWTFKINDA heat, etc... But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, just the absence of it. Another question, is there such a thing as darkness? No, there isn't. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Now onto my point, God never created evil, death, murder, rape, and all that evil stuff. Evil is just the absence of God, it's a word "we" the humans, made up. Much like the words "darkness" and "cold." God never created "evil" or "suffering" it's just the absence of him. ...It's the absence of God....Then God isn't all powerful, God is not perfect or it would be able to keep all the bad things from happening. Wait no, if he were perfect, it would be impossible to for rape and murder to happen, and it wouldn't be possible for us to get too cold or too hot. On the other hand, you could argue that life on earth is a test to see who gets into Heaven after Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit and condemned us all to life in an imperfect world. And one other thing, if god is all powerful then the devil wouldn't exist. God would have vaporized him with his laser beams.

2009-02-08 14:54:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Thee-flash, i completley, 100% without a doubt believe that there IS life on other planets. I know elbee that the likelyness of life on earth was very low and required perfect condicitons for all that we know to form. But think of this, the universe is INFINITE!!! In the infinity there are repeats of things. THere are multiple suns, planets. There are more than one black hole, more than one pulsar planet (planets that have huge beams of lights eminating from the poles). If all of these strange things can exist in multiple forms in multiple places in the universe, why couldnt life? We are picturing life as similar to what we know on earth. LIFE can be as small as a single living cell. It will also look different then what we know. We as humans (and all other creatures on earth) have adapted to the conditions on our planet. We have evolved to give us the best chance of survival. If another planet has a much lower temperature, life on that planet may have grown an excess of hair and have appendages great for moving across snow. There are litterally limitless possibilities. "good" and "evil" are just words. They in themselves mean nothing. They (like cold) are words we as humans have begun to use. Other animals feel heat as we do, and change themselves accordingly to stay alive. They do not feel good or evil because those are not natural forces. They do not contemplate the infinite mysteries of the universe because they do not need to. They simply survive, mature, reproduce and die. With no thoughts as to "where do i go when i die?" Good and evil are also highly subjective. The bible says good is what god wants you to do. Who says the bible is right? One person's trash is another person's treasure. It is all a matter of perspective as to what is good and evil. And yes there are MILLIONS of cake planets. Each one is a different cake, there is a double layered chocolate cake with vanilla frosting. And the moons for the cake planets are brownies.

2009-02-08 15:57:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1999/rehab477zf5.jpg

2009-02-08 16:10:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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Thee-flash, i completley, 100% without a doubt believe that there IS life on other planets. I know elbee that the likelyness of life on earth was very low and required perfect condicitons for all that we know to form. But think of this, the universe is INFINITE!!! In the infinity there are repeats of things. THere are multiple suns, planets. There are more than one black hole, more than one pulsar planet (planets that have huge beams of lights eminating from the poles). If all of these strange things can exist in multiple forms in multiple places in the universe, why couldnt life? We are picturing life as similar to what we know on earth. LIFE can be as small as a single living cell. It will also look different then what we know. We as humans (and all other creatures on earth) have adapted to the conditions on our planet. We have evolved to give us the best chance of survival. If another planet has a much lower temperature, life on that planet may have grown an excess of hair and have appendages great for moving across snow. There are litterally limitless possibilities. "good" and "evil" are just words. They in themselves mean nothing. They (like cold) are words we as humans have begun to use. Other animals feel heat as we do, and change themselves accordingly to stay alive. They do not feel good or evil because those are not natural forces. They do not contemplate the infinite mysteries of the universe because they do not need to. They simply survive, mature, reproduce and die. With no thoughts as to "where do i go when i die?" Good and evil are also highly subjective. The bible says good is what god wants you to do. Who says the bible is right? One person's trash is another person's treasure. It is all a matter of perspective as to what is good and evil. And yes there are MILLIONS of cake planets. Each one is a different cake, there is a double layered chocolate cake with vanilla frosting. And the moons for the cake planets are brownies. I wanna find some aliens! Unfortunately, the first living organisms we run into in space will most likely be microorganisms. But when we do find life, I can't wait to see how it rocks the foundation of science, and my theory about life forms being possible on planets that seem inhospitable will become true And I'll be famous!

2009-02-08 16:20:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1999/rehab477zf5.jpg That made me chuckle

2009-02-08 16:21:00 Author: Boomy Posts: 3701

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I'll answer this, as quick as possible. Suffering does exist in this world, but it was not created by God, nor ignored by him. Is there such a thing as cold? No. Is there such a thing as heat? No... Not making sense? Well let me tell you why, you can have, a lot of heat, super heat, mega heat, OMGWTFKINDA heat, etc... But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, just the absence of it. Another question, is there such a thing as darkness? No, there isn't. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Now onto my point, God never created evil, death, murder, rape, and all that evil stuff. Evil is just the absence of God, it's a word "we" the humans, made up. Much like the words "darkness" and "cold." God never created "evil" or "suffering" it's just the absence of him.Where did God go? There is another quality of the Christian god called "omnipresence" or "All-present" where he is everywhere at once. If he is absent somewhere, where did he go and why? Is he not-powerful enough to be everywhere to prevent suffering? Does he not know that leaving will create suffering? Or does he leave despite knowing that suffering will arise for his creation?

2009-02-08 17:11:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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On the subject of "where did god go", perhaps he never did go. Imagine it like white noise, if someone pumped it into your room for a day you'd go mad. But if you have it played to you all your life - you wouldnt notice it. Perhaps god isnt all Miricles and Lolly-pops, perhaps god is doing things every day but we are just to used to them to think them divine. Perhaps if god truely did "go away" the world would be an even worse place? (I realise how bad the spelling in that post is...) EDIT: Slightly-off topic: Is anyone else supprised we've made 12 pages without any screaming, shouting or abuse?

2009-02-08 19:45:00 Author: Mrgenji Posts: 803

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Where did God go? He said he was going to the store to get some milk and never came back.

2009-02-08 20:09:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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If there is a god, i would assume he has better things to do then worry about the troubles of humans on earth. If god really is the creator of everything, why would he bother with something as insignificant as humans on one small planet. I am also extremely happy that NOONE HAS STARTED YELLING!!! well, there goes the no yelling thing. But seriously, i am very happy that we have remained civilized in these discussions.

2009-02-08 22:43:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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On the subject of "where did god go", perhaps he never did go. Imagine it like white noise, if someone pumped it into your room for a day you'd go mad. But if you have it played to you all your life - you wouldnt notice it. Perhaps god isnt all Miricles and Lolly-pops, perhaps god is doing things every day but we are just to used to them to think them divine. Perhaps if god truely did "go away" the world would be an even worse place? (I realise how bad the spelling in that post is...) EDIT: Slightly-off topic: Is anyone else supprised we've made 12 pages without any screaming, shouting or abuse?By saying "Perhaps if god truely did "go away" the world would be an even worse place?", you are acknowledging that there are problems in his creation? If so, then the god of this world is not all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good. One or more of those qualities is flawed. He said he was going to the store to get some milk and never came back. LOL.

2009-02-09 01:30:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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OMG PROOF THAT GOD IS REAL! Okay, if I had 12 chocolate bars, ate 2, and never ate anymore of them, would I ever have eaten 3 chocolate bars? No I hadn't. So we never would have reached the moment in time where I ate 3 chocolate bars if God didn't exist. Gotcha cornered!

2009-02-09 02:10:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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oh man dude, you sure showed me. You must be right. wait, no your wrong. there are some serious flaws in you logic. Obviously you would have had to eaten at least 5 candy bars in order for us to be talking about this because i saw 8 wrappers and i ate 3 of them. It is so obvious isn't it?

2009-02-09 02:33:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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I reject your response because I just got owned.

2009-02-09 02:40:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Stop with the nonsense children.

2009-02-09 02:59:00 Author: Code1337 Posts: 3476

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I'm surprised and impressed we managed to keep this thread alive for so long, without it breaking down into a flame war. That really speaks volumes for this site's community. I'm a existentialist but I do however believe that religion is indeed a noble cause. It gives people joy, hope and morality. It helps people explain things they could never understand. Before I get a passionate reply where someone promptly explains "religion is a major fuel for conflict" and "it has caused many wars" I'd like to say i'm aware. However despite all these conflicts I also believe that man's destructive nature would lead him to create conflicts over other things, regardless of the intervention of religion. I would also like to suggest that all morality stems from core religious fundamentals. Once again, before I get a reply saying "I have morals, and i'm an atheist/agnostic" I would like to propose that perhaps previous generations of your lineage, were and had their morals ingrained in them, and then they were passed from generation to generation. I feel we may owe religion one for this, I'm not saying we would all be anarchists without religion, but it gave us core values in any case. Regardless, While I don't believe spiritaulity is subjective, others do and we might aswell let them have that. Just my opinion on the matter

2009-02-09 06:48:00 Author: Pinkcars Posts: 380

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It gives people joy, hope and morality.It depends on the religion but I mostly agree. Although, you should mention the other things it gives people: - Needless rules - Submission of women (Islam, Christianity (to a lesser extent)) - A skewed notion of logic and science - Superstitions like witchcraft, angels, demons, sin, nirvana, etc. - Skewed morals. It helps people explain things they could never understand.This, however, is the complete opposite. Religion has only hindered in the explaining the unknown. Anything that is explained that contradicts with religion is quickly denounced as heresy. If you mean by making stuff up about the afterlife and such, then they are just baseless guesses and nobody knows the validity of those explanations. I would also like to suggest that all morality stems from core religious fundamentals. Once again, before I get a reply saying "I have morals, and i'm an atheist/agnostic" I would like to propose that perhaps previous generations of your lineage, were and had their morals ingrained in them, and then they were passed from generation to generation. I feel we may owe religion one for this, I'm not saying we would all be anarchists without religion, but it gave us core values in any case.It's my theory that morals came from civilization as they naturally occur by human nature. Religions, therefore, were written to suit the morals of the time. Some evidence of this is that religious morals have changed and will continue to change. People no longer perform human sacrifice, perform blood sacrifices, stone rebellious kids to death, stone homosexuals to death, refuse to dance in church, etc. I mean, there is even a homosexual bishop. I have no idea how he managed to sort those beliefs together. These are all outdated morals and traditions that were written by a guy thousands of years ago.

2009-02-09 07:26:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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This, however, is the complete opposite. Religion has only hindered in the explaining the unknown. Anything that is explained that contradicts with religion is quickly denounced as heresy. I meant it gives them an answer that satisfies them. However when religion causes repression you're absolutely right, it can't be incredibley negative. It's my theory that morals came from civilization as they naturally occur by human nature. Religions, therefore, were written to suit the morals of the time. This is a very interesting perspective, and I suppose there is an incredible amount of arguments supporting it. I feel enlightened by your theory . By this view religion is outdated, but not obsolete (the way i perceived it). Although we can say that current religions are perhaps irrelevant, spirituality is not pointless. Perhaps what we need is a balance of old and new. New ideals combined with old stylings. Religion without the repression, constant condemnation, but rather simply as a source of faith (The benefits I described in my previous post). Sorry if this doesn't make to much sense, I'm still trying to think of a more eloquent was of articulating this idea.

2009-02-09 07:44:00 Author: Pinkcars Posts: 380

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I meant it gives them an answer that satisfies them. However when religion causes repression you're absolutely right, it can't be incredibley negative.I would rather admit that I do not know, then trick myself into a self-delusion of the afterlife. I mean, people can believe that there is an afterlife, but that is as far as it goes. I would never believe in heaven, hell, angels, demons, etc. just to feel better. This is a very interesting perspective, and I suppose there is an incredible amount of arguments supporting it. I feel enlightened by your theory . By this view religion is outdated, but not obsolete (the way i perceived it). Although we can say that current religions are perhaps irrelevant, spirituality is not pointless. Perhaps what we need is a balance of old and new. New ideals combined with old stylings. Religion without the repression, constant condemnation, but rather simply as a source of faith (The benefits I described in my previous post). Sorry if this doesn't make to much sense, I'm still trying to think of a more eloquent was of articulating this idea.I would argue that this isn't necessary. If you want to create a modern religion, it would be veeerrrry small. - The morals are pretty much the same as government laws. - The beliefs of natural phenomena are the same as the current scientific consensus. - Rules would be: "Separation of church and state." "No churches." "No supernatural events, creatures, or phenomena." Unfortunately, this is just "There may or may not be a god.". That is pretty much as far as one can go without making baseless assumptions on the nature of god or the afterlife.

2009-02-09 08:01:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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Voltiare, you are ignoring the fact that God does see the suffering going on, but it's a test. Of course not everyone (if there is one) is going to go to heaven, think of it as a test, to see if you do have faith. When you have faith, God is always there, and I can tell you that first hand (or a coincidence as others might think of it.) It all comes down to what you think is right, I've been a Christian for all my live, and I've never had any problems with it, and trust me I have asked my self "What if God isn't real?" But I've seen too many "miracles" happen to think of it otherwise, I have my faith and that's what keeps me going. Now, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. I now show you, an awesome song, filled with awesome lyrics. Ignore anything about religion if it offends you, just listen to the lyrics, they really say something, about us(humans.) YouTube - Letter From God to Man OFFICIAL Same song, just with the lyrics so you can really see what he's saying, (if your having a hard time with the OFFICIAL video.) YouTube - Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God

2009-02-09 09:02:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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This is a story I found off of my drum teacher's band's myspace. The following is an actual question given on a Universityof Washington chemistry mid term. The answer by one student was so 'profound' that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well : Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. 2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,' and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.' THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+.

2009-02-09 20:20:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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LOL awseomans I heard that before XD

2009-02-09 20:31:00 Author: Don Vhalt Posts: 2270

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Voltiare, you are ignoring the fact that God does see the suffering going on, but it's a test.That is in conflict with the "all-knowing" property of the Christian god. If God knows everything, he knows every choice that every human will ever make. Even if we have free will, he knows what choice we will make before we ever make it. That leads to this: Premises: 1) God is all-knowing. 2) God is all-powerful. 3) God is all-good. 4) There is suffering. Reasoning: 1) Since God is all-knowing, he knows the result of every action or personal choice, by free will or not, in the past, present, and future. 2) Since God is all-good, then God would not test if the result was going to lead to suffering. 3) Therefore, there is no suffering. 3) Since there is suffering, one of the premises is false.

2009-02-09 22:02:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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2) Since God is all-good, then God would not test if the result was going to lead to suffering. 3) Therefore, there is no suffering. 3) Since there is suffering, one of the premises is false. Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second: that conclusion is no more than opinion. In your opinion, someone who is perfectly good would not allow suffering to exist. While I agree, it's still an opinion, and you can't make a rock-solid argument based on opinions. In the end, arguing religion vs. nonreligion is pointless because religious people see the world in a completely different way than nonreligious people. Conclusions are made differently and entire thought processes contrast. It's unavoidable, and it's what makes argument pointless if your goal is to convince others of your opinion's validity.

2009-02-10 02:08:00 Author: ConfusedCartman Posts: 3729

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Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second: that conclusion is no more than opinion. In your opinion, someone who is perfectly good would not allow suffering to exist. While I agree, it's still an opinion, and you can't make a rock-solid argument based on opinions. In the end, arguing religion vs. nonreligion is pointless because religious people see the world in a completely different way than nonreligious people. Conclusions are made differently and entire thought processes contrast. It's unavoidable, and it's what makes argument pointless if your goal is to convince others of your opinion's validity.The argument is subjective based on what is "good", "bad", and "suffering". It's rooted in the ambiguity of language, but I think it rings true for most people. I don't really debate to prove a religious person wrong (as that is pretty much impossible). I debate because I think it is fun and that others watching might get a lesson out of it.

2009-02-10 04:46:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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The argument is subjective based on what is "good", "bad", and "suffering". It's rooted in the ambiguity of language, but I think it rings true for most people. I don't really debate to prove a religious person wrong (as that is pretty much impossible). I debate because I think it is fun and that others watching might get a lesson out of it. The problem with not being able to prove it wrong makes some people treat it as fact (rigid facts, that are inflexible). Don't get me wrong, I stated earlier that spirituality is essential for a massive portion of society, and I'm not aiming to start an argument. But when Spirituality brings the advance of knowledge to a halt to cling to an ideology that has yet to be proven (and is taken as fact despite never having been put to a test) then we have a problem. This is especially problematic when science or something else disproves a fact, that a religious doctrine preaches. For example you cannot not believe in evolution, rather you can choose to not accept it. Although this is just denial, as evolution is all but proven. And too have physical evidence (i'm looking at irrefutable evidence, such as watching in occur, not just in fossil records but documented events) we would need to do research for thousands of more years (I'm incredibly aware of the mountains of evidence supporting evolution, and I understand it very well ie: Environment doesn't cause evolution, just creates a habitat for beneficial mutations to flourish etc). Is suppose what i'm getting at is the whole Intelligent design (Personal note: I love this name, it sounds scientific, but it is however the least scientific thing ever) argument. To claim this is an "alternate theory" is a method used to spread the word of their religious teachings into state facilities (separation of church and state is essential). I frustrates me to an incredible degree to see this used to confuse the youth about how species occur and change. They created legal loopholes claiming evolution was a "theory" (what a theory means: in science it's different then the regular English vernacular, in the scientific community it's used in the sense "Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts" whereas in English it's "incomplete facts") Simply because they were afraid of having a few arguments dis proven. I have no problem with the teaching itself, but save it for Sunday school. **Side note** I'll be flexible here, I'm not out to offend. I refuse to accept creationism (no scientific backing etc) but I will let the argument of "god uses evolution as a tool" be considered acceptable. Sorry for the wall of text... :kz: Also I italicized the quotes, as they're supplementary information. If they're hard to read I can reverse them. Also I stole a quote from - Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"

2009-02-10 08:01:00 Author: Pinkcars Posts: 380

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In my opinion, there is a very big difference between religion and spirituality. I see spirituality as something inescapable (although deniable) simply by virtue of being alive. It's humankind's search for meaning and purpose, the evolution of the species. Religion, in many cases, is a rigid set of thoughts and beliefs about our meaning and purpose, and to deviate from these beliefs is seen as wrong. I think the world's different religions are all attempts to explain spiritual experience from different points of view. I've personally had quite a few spiritual experiences and have tried to remain as open-minded about them as possible. I can only imagine how differently a very religious or very scientific minded person would interpret these experiences compared to the way I've tried to. It seems as though most people see spirituality and science as opposing forces, but I see them as the same force coming from two different points of view, and I believe they will eventually merge into one discipline. It's already started happening, I think. Many religious people have started questioning the things they've been taught to believe and have looked for ways to bring more tolerance and understanding into their beliefs. At the same time, many scientists, especially those studying quantum mechanics, are finding that many spiritual ideas that were previously thought of as absurd, may in fact not be so absurd after all in the quantum world. The "What the Bleep" movie/documentary is a good example of the merging of science and spirituality. I highly recommend it for those who may not have seen it. They have a website and newsletter where you can learn more about it if you're interested. Kudos to everyone for keeping this thread civil. That doesn't happen very often with this topic. This slice (LBPC) of the LittleBigPlanet is quite peaceful compared to some I've seen.

2009-02-10 11:10:00 Author: Shalatii Posts: 103

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On the suject of a "all knowing, all powerful god", a god who is perfect and has no flaws. I cannot beleive if there is a god that he would not have flaws, a lack of flaws boils down to being purely rational. Love can make you do crazy and pointless things, so can hate - therefore both could be considered flaws in a personality. If god is caring and loving, he must HAVE a personality, and it must be flawed. A flawless rational thought process would not care for the people of earth, or reward and punish them. Or at least it would not offer them the opertunity to have their sins forgiven, which once again points towards a loving god. I realise I'm just trying to pick holes in peoples arguments here (sorry about that), but I feel too much of religion is based on the idea that "Ignorance is bliss". If we dont question it, how can we ever understand it?

2009-02-10 11:11:00 Author: Mrgenji Posts: 803

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I agree that everyone is spritual. That doesn't have to mean believing in god, or following a certain religion. I think anything that keeps your life in balance is something spiritual. Whether that be reading a book daily, praying to god or playing LBP, many things are spiritual. God created us in his image? Why does god need arms. Why does god need feat, digestive organs etc... God is supposed to be an eternal, powerful being. Why would a being such as that need an anatomy like ours? It is just another example of what i said earlier (waaaayyyyy back) humans have created god in our image. We like to believe that we are somehow chosen and superior to other creatures. We like to believe that god, made US to resemble HIM, bestowing upon us a great honor. But god would not need any of the things that we have. A being such as that would clearly have transcended past those needs.

2009-02-10 21:29:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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God created us in his image? Why does god need arms. Why does god need feat, digestive organs etc... God is supposed to be an eternal, powerful being. Why would a being such as that need an anatomy like ours? It is just another example of what i said earlier (waaaayyyyy back) humans have created god in our image. We like to believe that we are somehow chosen and superior to other creatures. We like to believe that god, made US to resemble HIM, bestowing upon us a great honor. But god would not need any of the things that we have. A being such as that would clearly have transcended past those needs. There's a bit sort of related to that in this vid at starting 3:40 (mild adult content) YouTube - Dara O'Briain - God Moments

2009-02-11 00:30:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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It's kind of weird when we get into our own personal theories about god. If god invented everything, I would assume he'd have no body, no personality, no gender (so I need to get out of the habit of calling it "him") and no, well, emotion.

2009-02-11 01:16:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Voltiare, you are ignoring the fact that God does see the suffering going on, but it's a test. Of course not everyone (if there is one) is going to go to heaven, think of it as a test, to see if you do have faith. When you have faith, God is always there, and I can tell you that first hand (or a coincidence as others might think of it.) It all comes down to what you think is right, I've been a Christian for all my live, and I've never had any problems with it, and trust me I have asked my self "What if God isn't real?" But I've seen too many "miracles" happen to think of it otherwise, I have my faith and that's what keeps me going. Well if god is truly god, wouldn't he already know if we were going to be unfaithful or not, and if he is always there, aren't we just slaves to his will anyway? I was a faithful Christian for 15 years of my life, and I never felt gods presence at all. The only thing I ever felt was the constant nagging fear of hell. Ever since I unconverted, I've felt a lot more powerful in my own life, and I've been upholding my morals a lot better. I'd like to hear about these miracles your talking about. I've never experienced one, and I've been in a lot of near death situations. I nearly fell off the Grand Canyon last Summer. It wasn't god that saved me, it was the adrenaline boost I got that allowed me to pull myself back up. I got picked in Middle School a lot (by Christian twerps might I add). I prayed and prayed, and guess what? Nothing ever changed until I took control of my own life and fought back. I was a happy-go-lucky kid in Elementary school. I became really faithful to "god" in Middle school, and guess what happened? My best friend got hooked on drugs, my Christian friends were jerks to me, and I found that my friends who didn't have faith were a lot better than the ones that did. Trust me, I truly wanted to have faith back then. According to the Bible that god will feed any that come to him, so... what happened with me? Am I not worthy to receive his blessing?

2009-02-11 02:05:00 Author: Code1337 Posts: 3476

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very interesting. Good job on not dying at the grand canyon there. I saw a squrill fall of the edge. It was wierd. But anyway, there is still a question nagging me that hasn't been answered. Where did god come from?

2009-02-11 02:43:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Well if god is truly god, wouldn't he already know if we were going to be unfaithful or not, and if he is always there, aren't we just slaves to his will anyway? I was a faithful Christian for 15 years of my life, and I never felt gods presence at all. The only thing I ever felt was the constant nagging fear of hell. Ever since I unconverted, I've felt a lot more powerful in my own life, and I've been upholding my morals a lot better. I'd like to hear about these miracles your talking about. I've never experienced one, and I've been in a lot of near death situations. I nearly fell off the Grand Canyon last Summer. It wasn't god that saved me, it was the adrenaline boost I got that allowed me to pull myself back up. I got picked in Middle School a lot (by Christian twerps might I add). I prayed and prayed, and guess what? Nothing ever changed until I took control of my own life and fought back. I was a happy-go-lucky kid in Elementary school. I became really faithful to "god" in Middle school, and guess what happened? My best friend got hooked on drugs, my Christian friends were jerks to me, and I found that my friends who didn't have faith were a lot better than the ones that did. Trust me, I truly wanted to have faith back then. According to the Bible that god will feed any that come to him, so... what happened with me? Am I not worthy to receive his blessing? How do you know it was an adrenaline rush? You seem to be missing the big picture, you have to thank God for what he has done, not for what he hasn't done. Let me give you an example. If you were to get robbed, someone stole your iPod. I can see you saying "Wow why, did you let that guy steal my iPod? Why didn't you smite him?" When the big picture is, the guy could of actually KILLED YOU, when instead you just lost an iPod. I can explain the countless amount of miracles, but it would be just wasting my time, it seems like you don't even care. Why bother? I've mentioned one a few pages back, and you might say "So what, the drink slipped out of your friends hand." But in reality, there was no way in hell it could of just slipped out, if you had been there, you would've seen it, it was held in the most upright position, in his hands, both hands might I add, and he just literally "spilled" it on me, it didn't even slip. It was like he did it on purpose. When in the big picture, it was God that saved me. EDIT: When we are born, we are all unfaithful, he is giving us a chance to change our life around. I would rather get a second chance then rather have this happen. God : Hmm, this kid will be born on April 12 1990, he will be unfaithful. I'll just kill him right now, send him off to hell where he belongs. Umm... No. I don't think it works that way and I'm sure as hell glad it doesn't. Edit #2: Again, you seem to be missing the big picture. Your best friend being hooked on drugs? Maybe that "friend" isn't suppose to be your friend, God knows what will happen in the future, and maybe God knew that friend would get you hooked on drugs as well... (peer pressure) So maybe God is trying to tell you that he is not a friend you should be hanging out with, and was your friend a Christian might I add? I'm not saying he wasn't just out of curiousity. As for my life, I've been a faithful Christian for 17 years, and I have been blessed all the way. I have had similar experiences like you, but I don't give up on God and he does at the end bless me, if you will.

2009-02-11 02:59:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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I think the difficulty many people experience when it comes to God is due to the false concepts about God that we're taught to believe in from an early age. Some people teach of a God that loves us but only so long as we follow His commandments, because when we don't follow His commandments, or if we don't worship Him in exactly the right way, then we are sent to everlasting ****ation and torment for it, unless we beg forgiveness from Him, in which case we may or may not be spared. This version of God sounds egotistical, vengeful, and only conditionally loving. Those aren't very God-like traits, but they are certainly very human-like traits. I think God must be experienced to be understood. A lot of people live in their heads, through language and words instead of through their experience of Life. Imagine someone who has never seen nor eaten an apple. Now try to explain to them what an apple looks like and tastes like. They'll develop a concept of what an apple is, a mental image, but it won't be the real thing. Now if you later give them one to eat, then they come to know "apple" beyond a shadow of a doubt, and it may differ quite a bit from their former concept of apple. To me, God is kind of like this, except that our preconceptions of God can hinder and even prevent the genuine experience of "God" (or at least my definition of God, which is probably different than many peoples). "Where did God come from?" I'm not trying to play word games, but the question suggests a timeframe, and that God wasn't always here, but now is. What if God isn't subject to time in the same way we are but simply always was, and always will be? That idea doesn't mesh well with most people's experience, and yet Albert Einstein said: "Space and time are not conditions in which we live; they are simply modes in which we think."

2009-02-11 03:48:00 Author: Shalatii Posts: 103

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I nearly fell off the Grand Canyon last Summer.LOL. Sorry, but for some reason, that makes me laugh. "How did he die?" "He fell off the Grand Canyon. I guess he didn't see the giant hole in the ground." If you were to get robbed, someone stole your iPod. I can see you saying "Wow why, did you let that guy steal my iPod? Why didn't you smite him?" When the big picture is, the guy could of actually KILLED YOU, when instead you just lost an iPod. My standards for a god is higher than that. I would expect more from the Christian god because I could just exaggerate your argument and it would sound even more silly. Example: "Wow why, did you let the corrupted police illegally break into my house, force themselves on my wife (before killing her), burn the house to the ground, and beat me until I could never walk again? Why didn't you smite him?" "Well, at least they didn't kill you too. Thank God for that." I just expect more from God than the bare minimum of justice. When we are born, we are all unfaithful, he is giving us a chance to change our life around. I would rather get a second chance then rather have this happen. God : Hmm, this kid will be born on April 12 1990, he will be unfaithful. I'll just kill him right now, send him off to hell where he belongs. Umm... No. I don't think it works that way and I'm sure as hell glad it doesn't. First off, there is no "change our life around". God is all-knowing so he knows whether this kid will go to heaven or hell before he is even born. Regardless of free-will, God knows his fate with absolute certainty. So God has some options: 1) Create the kid he knew was going to hell. The kid lives for 70 years before going to Hell to be tortured forever. This is just evil. 70 years is a drop in the ocean compared to being tortured for eternity. It's pretty much the same as creating a kid to be tortured forever without the 70 years of life. Since God is all-good, this can't be true. 2) Not create the kid he knew was going to hell. The kid never exists and is replaced by a new soul that goes to heaven. Sucks for the kid, but it's better than being tortured forever. 3) Change the fate of the kid. The kid is now going to heaven. Yay! This is the good option. As you can see, both of the options that an all-good god would do lead to a kid going to heaven. So guess what? There is nobody in Hell since it is impossible for an all-good god to create a person to go to hell. Even Hitler is not in Hell. So live it up because we are all going to heaven anyway! I'll see ya there! ^_~

2009-02-11 04:11:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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How do you know it was an adrenaline rush? You seem to be missing the big picture, you have to thank God for what he has done, not for what he hasn't done. Let me give you an example. If you were to get robbed, someone stole your iPod. I can see you saying "Wow why, did you let that guy steal my iPod? Why didn't you smite him?" When the big picture is, the guy could of actually KILLED YOU, when instead you just lost an iPod. I can explain the countless amount of miracles, but it would be just wasting my time, it seems like you don't even care. Why bother? I've mentioned one a few pages back, and you might say "So what, the drink slipped out of your friends hand." But in reality, there was no way in hell it could of just slipped out, if you had been there, you would've seen it, it was held in the most upright position, in his hands, both hands might I add, and he just literally "spilled" it on me, it didn't even slip. It was like he did it on purpose. When in the big picture, it was God that saved me. Your friend might have had something else on his mind and let his muscles relax. I don't know enough about it to tell you. I don't even know what he was saving you from. And... I guess I'll go bow down the the Juju on the mountain to make sure the sky doesn't fall tomorrow, yep. EDIT: When we are born, we are all unfaithful, he is giving us a chance to change our life around. I would rather get a second chance then rather have this happen. God : Hmm, this kid will be born on April 12 1990, he will be unfaithful. I'll just kill him right now, send him off to hell where he belongs. Umm... No. I don't think it works that way and I'm sure as hell glad it doesn't. Anyone who does not accept Jesus in their heart goes to hell according to the Bible. This would imply that everyone before Jesus went to hell, the millions of people that the "Word of God" never reached are going to hell, and anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell. 1) Why didn't god give ancient people a chance to accept Jesus? 2) If he wants to give us a chance, then what happens to people who never hear the word of god? 3) If the devil is influencing us to be bad, why isn't god making more of an effort to "save" us? the list goes on... Edit #2: Again, you seem to be missing the big picture. Your best friend being hooked on drugs? Maybe that "friend" isn't suppose to be your friend, God knows what will happen in the future, and maybe God knew that friend would get you hooked on drugs as well... (peer pressure) So maybe God is trying to tell you that he is not a friend you should be hanging out with, and was your friend a Christian might I add? I'm not saying he wasn't just out of curiousity. As for my life, I've been a faithful Christian for 17 years, and I have been blessed all the way. I have had similar experiences like you, but I don't give up on God and he does at the end bless me, if you will. Why isn't he supposed to be my friend? Aren't all people supposed to be equal? If he wasn't supposed to be my friend, why was he my friend in the first place? If god influences all circumstances, then aren't I still a slave? If god is omniscient and omnipotent, then he would know I am a straight to the point kind of guy. Why then is it that he doesn't tell it to my face? And yes, he was a Christian. Don't get me started on how accepting Christians have been of me... lets just say I was ostracized at church. Does that mean god doesn't want me to become a Christian?

2009-02-11 04:25:00 Author: Code1337 Posts: 3476

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And... I guess I'll go bow down the the Juju on the mountain to make sure the sky doesn't fall tomorrow, yep. Don't be so condescending. This is just one example I saw in the post. It's not like a really care or anything as I feel the same way, but I just don't want this getting taken down because of some hurt feelings. More civil, please? And no, I'm not trying to mod a mod lol. Just a person talking to a person.

2009-02-11 04:30:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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Don't be so condescending. This is just one example I saw in the post. It's not like a really care or anything as I feel the same way, but I just don't want this getting taken down because of some hurt feelings. More civil, please? Yeah... I'll be leaving this thread now. I was avoiding this thread until my mom decided to take away my facebook because I set my religion as agnostic. /runs away and I don't care if you correct me, I'm human. I probably shouldn't have posted here at all... /bans self

2009-02-11 04:34:00 Author: Code1337 Posts: 3476

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My standards for a god is higher than that. I would expect more from the Christian god because I could just exaggerate your argument and it would sound even more silly. Example: "Wow why, did you let the corrupted police illegally break into my house, force themselves on my wife (before killing her), burn the house to the ground, and beat me until I could never walk again? Why didn't you smite him?" "Well, at least they didn't kill you too. Thank God for that." I just expect more from God than the bare minimum of justice. It was just a mere example, an example between a human life and a mp3. I'm pretty sure an all-good God wouldn't allow your example to happen in the first place. Your friend might have had something else on his mind and let his muscles relax. I don't know enough about it to tell you. I don't even know what he was saving you from. Well, you can refer to a few pages back to see what God was saving me from. I don't feel like rewriting it. /lazy. 3) If the devil is influencing us to be bad, why isn't god making more of an effort to "save" us? the list goes on... God has put us on Earth to see if we can keep our faith in him, if you have faith in God, and I'm not talking about "I believe you will keep the boogie man away from me if I pray everynight, but I don't read the Bible, or go to church every Sunday, but I still believe you're real, so keep the boogie monsters away from me." That isn't faith, yeah I blew it way out of proportion, and what not, whatever. Anyways, my point is. God will make an effort to save you, if you believe in him, 100%, fully. The Devil won't come near you if you were to have faith in God. Why isn't he supposed to be my friend? Aren't all people supposed to be equal? If he wasn't supposed to be my friend, why was he my friend in the first place? If god influences all circumstances, then aren't I still a slave? If god is omniscient and omnipotent, then he would know I am a straight to the point kind of guy. Why then is it that he doesn't tell it to my face? And yes, he was a Christian. God has put each and everyone of us on Earth for a reason, the main reason being to speak the word of Christ, to others, so they don't go to hell (maintaining the Christian meaning here, by the way.) There are plenty of other reasons, maybe the path God decided for you didn't have that friend in it? Don't get me started on how accepting Christians have been of me... lets just say I was ostracized at church. Does that mean god doesn't want me to become a Christian? Of course not. And I see you're leaving this thread, it seems as though that's the wisest choice, so I'll be doing it too. For the main purpose that there really isn't a point in debating, since like CC stated, you can't prove or disprove anything to another person.

2009-02-11 05:30:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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It was just a mere example, an example between a human life and a mp3. I'm pretty sure an all-good God wouldn't allow your example to happen in the first place.Your example is just as bad, but not as obvious. An all-good god's creation would be perfectly good. If somebody stole my mp3 player, I could put some blame on God since he knew it would happen and did nothing to stop it. Yes, I could have died, but God could've made it where I didn't die and didn't lose my mp3 player. If he could, but didn't, then he isn't all-good.

2009-02-11 06:48:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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Your example is just as bad, but not as obvious. An all-good god's creation would be perfectly good. If somebody stole my mp3 player, I could put some blame on God since he knew it would happen and did nothing to stop it. Yes, I could have died, but God could've made it where I didn't die and didn't lose my mp3 player. If he could, but didn't, then he isn't all-good. This is my last reply, and post on this thread... Lol, no seriously though it is. Yes, your right, he could've had it so you didn't lose the mp3 as well, but that's part of the test. That's it. That's all I'm going to say, no please don't reply to this anyone, as I always get the urge of replying when someone replies to me. For my sake, don't... Lol. I'll still watch the thread, I just won't post my arguement/opinion. Bye!

2009-02-11 07:26:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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This is my last reply, and post on this thread... Lol, no seriously though it is. Yes, your right, he could've had it so you didn't lose the mp3 as well, but that's part of the test. That's it. That's all I'm going to say, no please don't reply to this anyone, as I always get the urge of replying when someone replies to me. For my sake, don't... Lol. I'll still watch the thread, I just won't post my arguement/opinion. Bye! If you aren't here, who am I going to argue with? It's going to be boring. Anyway, I think I already said how there was no need for a test for the all-knowing. Soooo...yeah.

2009-02-11 08:13:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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How where more species made..? if it was just adam and eve >.> and more races and beliefs.

2009-02-11 08:15:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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How where more species made..? if it was just adam and eve >.> and more races and beliefs. Never mind that think of the incest if it was just those two at the start. Also http://i40.tinypic.com/sfawat.gif

2009-02-11 10:50:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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How where more species made..? if it was just adam and eve >.> and more races and beliefs. Well seeing as evolution is pretty much proven.... >.< You know that comic someone posted earlier here, the one on why God likes Atheists more? Well I accidentally used to for scratch paper and got in trouble today.

2009-02-11 20:36:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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pretty dumb you can get in trouble for that. I hate when they incorporate religion in schools (thats what religious schools are for) Southern schools in the US are infamous for being the in "bible belt" aka where they don't teach kids about evolution (aka make them live in ignorance to very conclusive scientific evidence) and try to ban condoms which will increase rates of STD's and pregnancy. I hate it.....we are a democratic republic not a democratic theocracy

2009-02-11 20:55:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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It pains me to see people leaving. You might not be able to change someone's beliefs around, but you can still learn more about what you believe when asked a difficult question. That is also pretty weak that your mom banned you from facebook for saying you are agnositc. Out of all the problems i have with religion (christianity in particular) is the manner in which they go about sperading "the good word of jesus" The christian/catholic church shove their creeds and beliefs into young, impressionable children, never giving them a chance to breathe. You are born into a world where jesus is law, obey or suffer. Never to christians take a step back and say, think about it for yourself for a little while, then tell me what you think. MOSt (not all) christians have been so since birth. People given a chance to develop a personal belief often steer away from the idea of a god. When growing up on the stories of god, kids take it is an absolute and definite. My parents gave me no "structured" belief. They let me explore what i actually believe, and let me develop good, resposnsible thoughts from that. Also, if god loves all of us, why would he **** me to an eternity to hell??? As long as i lead a good life, staying away from drugs, adultery, stealing and as long as i do good deeds, shouldn't that be enough? BTW: Whoever answered my question on the origin of god "forget who, sorry." You said god could be timeless. Then why is it so hard to believe that matter is timeless?

2009-02-12 02:35:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Also, if god loves all of us, why would he **** me to an eternity to hell??? As long as i lead a good life, staying away from drugs, adultery, stealing and as long as i do good deeds, shouldn't that be enough? BTW: Whoever answered my question on the origin of god "forget who, sorry." You said god could be timeless. Then why is it so hard to believe that matter is timeless? I think you're referring to me, but I'm not completely sure what you're asking. Generally speaking, most people are domesticated (not unlike our pets) to behave in a certain way and fit in with the rest of society. The majority of society doesn't believe in timelessness, but in death and separation. We see loved ones die and decay, or be cremated into a pile of ashes. The matter that was the body appears to have come to an end. We eat an apple; it's gone, at least until it comes out the other end in a different form and is flushed away. Deeply held assumptions about how the world works are rarely questioned, especially when experience seems to support it. But some people do question it and create new ideas and perspectives. They say, sure water evaporates and is gone, but it forms clouds and then rain and it turns back into water again. Sure our bodies die, but the remains become part of the Earth and new Life emerges from it. I think the popular term is the Circle of Life. (Go Lion King!) New ideas (ie different than the norm) are often mocked and ridiculed unfortunately. People's real question and worry is, "Am I timeless?" When my physical body stops functioning, is there something of me that remains and lives on? Are things as they appear, or is there something more beneath the outer surface of things? Everyone has a different theory to answer that, atheists, religious people, and everyone in between. BTW: I don't think you're going to Hell, even if you do drugs, cheat, and steal...although, you may not enjoy the natural consequences of your actions if you do those things.

2009-02-12 05:35:00 Author: Shalatii Posts: 103

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How is evolution "pretty" much proven.

2009-02-12 05:39:00 Author: Thee-Flash Posts: 3154

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How is evolution "pretty" much proven.Mountains and mountains of evidence. On top of that, evolution gets it's evidence from different sects of science (anatomy, genetics, paleontology, etc) that all points to the same conclusion. Plus, the theory of evolution has been put to the utmost scrutiny for over 150 years by the scientific community. This includes religious scientists that want it disproven for religious reasons as well as people who want to disprove it for the fame and fortune. So evolution is a theory that is as strong as the theory of gravity with over 98% of all biologists accepting it. Now I think we should get on topic as evolution has nothing to do with religion.

2009-02-12 13:21:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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Hmm, I think evolution is completely on topic, since it is a major debating point between many religious and non-religious people, and since some people believe that God (the topic) is the guiding principle behind evolution.

2009-02-13 00:43:00 Author: Shalatii Posts: 103

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Yes, evolution completley pretains to what we are talking about. Seeing as how today is Darwin's 200th birthday (happy birthday darwin!!!) Fox news took a poll. They asked "do you believe in evolution" Less than half of the US believe in evolution apparently. THe first thing is you can tell how biased fox is because they say "believe" in evolution. Evolution is not a belief, it is an accepted statement of scientific fact. You accept evolution, not believe in it. The second is that poll disgusts me. I thought that the united states was the most advanced, intelligent, powerful nation in the world. We will NEVER make progress with people stuck in old beliefs. We will NEVER move forward until we stop looking behind us.

2009-02-13 01:45:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Yes, evolution completley pretains to what we are talking about. Seeing as how today is Darwin's 200th birthday (happy birthday darwin!!!) Fox news took a poll. They asked "do you believe in evolution" Less than half of the US believe in evolution apparently. THe first thing is you can tell how biased fox is because they say "believe" in evolution. Evolution is not a belief, it is an accepted statement of scientific fact. You accept evolution, not believe in it. The second is that poll disgusts me. I thought that the united states was the most advanced, intelligent, powerful nation in the world. We will NEVER make progress with people stuck in old beliefs. We will NEVER move forward until we stop looking behind us. Keep in mind that Fox News is a very conservative Republican news station, and due to such the majority of the people who answered the poll were conservative Republicans. More than 50% of republicans are devout Christians or Catholics, which would explain those numbers. You'd be better off gathering an idea from something like this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/images/060810-evolution_big.jpg) (gathered in 2005).

2009-02-13 01:57:00 Author: ConfusedCartman Posts: 3729

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Keep in mind that Fox News is a very conservative Republican news station, and due to such the majority of the people who answered the poll were conservative Republicans. More than 50% of republicans are devout Christians or Catholics, which would explain those numbers. You'd be better off gathering an idea from something like this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/images/060810-evolution_big.jpg) (gathered in 2005). very very true Fox is the worst out of all of them by far. Anyone remember the 2000 election and who the first news station was to announce george bush won florida (when he didnt)

2009-02-13 02:04:00 Author: Hamsalad Posts: 2551

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CC, assuming i am reading that graph right, only around 60% of americans accept it/arnt sure about it. Please correct me if i am wrong but doesnt that prove what i was saying. And i know that the majority of people who would participate in a Fox news poll are catholics, still. The Catholic Church ITSELF! accepts the validity of the theory of evolution. It is still a terrible thought. And that fateful year in 2000, if Gore was elected, we probably wouldn't be hated by the world right now... just saying. But THAT is very off topic.

2009-02-13 02:16:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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CC, assuming i am reading that graph right, only around 60% of americans accept it/arnt sure about it. Please correct me if i am wrong but doesnt that prove what i was saying. And i know that the majority of people who would participate in a Fox news poll are catholics, still. The Catholic Church ITSELF! accepts the validity of the theory of evolution. It is still a terrible thought. To me, the difference between less than 50% acceptance and more than 60% acceptance is a big difference. It shows that the majority opinion is different than Fox News' majority opinion. Regarding the Catholic Church's stance: you are correct in a way. They do not accept it, but they say "that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of human origins" (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church)). Simply put, the Catholic Church's official opinion is that evolution and Catholicism can co-exist, but humans are "special" and were not affected in any drastic way by evolution. Anyone who accepts the evolutionary theory knows that humans were very, very drastically affected by evolution over a period of millions of years, and we were not "created" as we are now. The Catholic Church doesn't accept evolution, it accepts the pieces of it that fit alongside Catholicism. Not that picking and choosing facts to believe is anything new; religion has been doing it ever since science began challenging it.

2009-02-13 02:36:00 Author: ConfusedCartman Posts: 3729

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I admit it. The majority of my country are practically retarded. Hmm, I think evolution is completely on topic, since it is a major debating point between many religious and non-religious people, and since some people believe that God (the topic) is the guiding principle behind evolution. I try not to equate atheism with evolution as they are not mutually exclusive. I know of Christians that believe in evolution. Although, I have to say that I don't really respect them as much as the fundies. It just seems hypocritical as the two really are in conflict.

2009-02-14 01:39:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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To me, the difference between less than 50% acceptance and more than 60% acceptance is a big difference. It shows that the majority opinion is different than Fox News' majority opinion. Regarding the Catholic Church's stance: you are correct in a way. They do not accept it, but they say "that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of human origins" (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church)). Simply put, the Catholic Church's official opinion is that evolution and Catholicism can co-exist, but humans are "special" and were not affected in any drastic way by evolution. Anyone who accepts the evolutionary theory knows that humans were very, very drastically affected by evolution over a period of millions of years, and we were not "created" as we are now. The Catholic Church doesn't accept evolution, it accepts the pieces of it that fit alongside Catholicism. Not that picking and choosing facts to believe is anything new; religion has been doing it ever since science began challenging it. Just like to get my input here. The Catholic Church, fully accepts evolution, not just the pieces that fit. It just says that Humans are special, chosen by God out of all. God gave humans a soul basically... If you don't believe in that concept then think of it as a statement to prevent people from thinking "its just a human", which is unethical. As for Evolution's status, I really think they made it a law too soon. They havn't disproven the "micro-macro" evolution theories. Scientist have been able to successfuly force evolution to the point that the offspring can't mate with the control (new species) but the offspring still resemble the control in some way. They havn't been able to make flies have fur, gils, feathers. In other words, they never proved that their isn't a limit to evolution. The only explination is "it takes a million years so we can't find out", and the holes in the fossil record are explained with "Fossils are rare, we're lucky we found these, so stop looking for missing links" I do believe evolution is credible, but so many questions remain unanswered for it to be stated as scientific law My faith: Catholic by choice, after a lot of thinking and pondering A question I'd like to answer [I]Therefore, a god(s) cannot be all-good (doesn't care that there is suffering), all-knowing (doesn't know that there is suffering), and all-powerful (or is powerless to stop the suffering). One of those qualities of a god(s) is flawed in order to arrive at the world we see today. This is an old statement that was suppose to contradict the Christian God of "Omnipresence, Omniscience, and Omnipotence". My respose is: God knows and can stop suffering, but he refuses to do so. Simply because if he stops all the evil in the world, their will only be good. If their is no choice between good or evil their is no free-will. God gave humans free-will, he wants us to choose him because we love him not because he made us too. Thus he suffers as he watch his beloved creation destroy each other, hoping that they would listen to him and choose to be good. [IMO of course] This question rambled on for 5 pages without an answer so I thought I'd answer it..... Although, I have to say that I don't really respect them as much as the fundies. It just seems hypocritical as the two really are in conflict. Whats so wrong with "Religion is to why and Evolution is how" ??? The two don't conflict at all if you think about it...

2009-02-14 07:06:00 Author: Reshin Posts: 1081

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What if life is just like one big dream and then when you die you wake up and you are like this weird alien thing and everything is different like physics and stuff. It is sort of weird because God lives through no time and time is nothing to him so why is time something to us. Is this just some type of sick joke God is playing on us? Putting us on earth to suffer. Then when we died he is like ohh, gotcha and then we are like oh good one. This is confusing... I am going to bed Oh, here is a question for all evolution believers out their: So we had to study Evolution in 7th grade and we watched a lot of videos and it said earth formed and then water formed on earth. My question is how did the water form on earth? How to the first living cell become alive too? O.K., now I am going to bed.

2009-02-14 07:34:00 Author: Unknown User

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This is an old statement that was suppose to contradict the Christian God of "Omnipresence, Omniscience, and Omnipotence". My respose is: God knows and can stop suffering, but he refuses to do so. Simply because if he stops all the evil in the world, their will only be good. If their is no choice between good or evil their is no free-will. God gave humans free-will, he wants us to choose him because we love him not because he made us too. Thus he suffers as he watch his beloved creation destroy each other, hoping that they would listen to him and choose to be good. [IMO of course] This question rambled on for 5 pages without an answer so I thought I'd answer it..... 1) So you are saying that God cannot create choices that consist of all-good outcomes? 2) Why does a perfect being care if we don't love him? Why would he create something just to be worshipped by it? Is his self-esteem that bad? 3) What is so good about freewill? If you were in a world without freewill, you would never realize it. Plus, the life would be much better. So why is freewill better than no freewill? Whats so wrong with "Religion is to why and Evolution is how" ??? The two don't conflict at all if you think about it...It conflicts with scripture. The Bible is rife with verses that don't line up with what we know is true (Human decent, ancient species, calling bats "birds"). I believe that the Bible is to be taken literally as that was how it was meant. This non-literal reading is just a way to twist and squeeze the book into the modern world in my opinion. As such, the book is obviously flawed and can be thus discarded. My question is how did the water form on earth? How to the first living cell become alive too?This is actually a question about abiogenesis, for which the evidence is shakier. I'm not too sure exactly, but I can Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_world%27s_oceans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

2009-02-14 13:24:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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The bible is great as a nonliteral piece of writing. When you start taking it too literally, that's when you get those "God Hates Fags" Groups.

2009-02-14 16:39:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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This is what I am confused with in the bible: If you are ***,do you get sent straight to hell when you die or is it a forgivable sin?

2009-02-14 16:43:00 Author: Unknown User

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1) So you are saying that God cannot create choices that consist of all-good outcomes? That will still eliminate Free-will, its the choice to turn away from good that allows us to choose good over evil.... 2) Why does a perfect being care if we don't love him? Why would he create something just to be worshipped by it? Is his self-esteem that bad? Different religions have different answers but my response is "God is love, he yearns to love and to be loved. We are created in his own image thats why we feel the same way among each other." (all humans have this feeling Its pretty much proven, they had 5 babies that had all they need to survive, food, water, safe environment, people would change their diaper, but their will never any communication given. All babies died) 3) What is so good about freewill? If you were in a world without freewill, you would never realize it. Plus, the life would be much better. So why is freewill better than no freewill? Their is no life when their is no freewill. You won't have any of your own opinions, you won't have inhibitions, you won't make your own choices since your opinion doesn't exsist. You will just agree with whatever God says. Whats so bad about that? Can you really love someone if you didn't have the choice to not love them? God wants love, not mindless worshipers who bow to his every whim It conflicts with scripture. The Bible is rife with verses that don't line up with what we know is true (Human decent, ancient species, calling bats "birds"). I believe that the Bible is to be taken literally as that was how it was meant. This non-literal reading is just a way to twist and squeeze the book into the modern world in my opinion. As such, the book is obviously flawed and can be thus discarded. The Catholic Church has always said "Don't take the words literally". The scriptures conflict themselves if you do. Its full of figures of speech, refferences to the old times, and exaggerations. Their are christians who take the Bible literally, and they have their own explinations for said conflicts. You can't really go "The bible was meant to be taken literally and it conflicts with facts, therefore its not true. Those that put things into context are just trying to make it fit with the facts." Contexual reading of the Bible exsisted long before evidence arrived that conflicted with the literal words.

2009-02-14 17:55:00 Author: Reshin Posts: 1081

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Oh, here is a question for all evolution believers out their: So we had to study Evolution in 7th grade and we watched a lot of videos and it said earth formed and then water formed on earth. My question is how did the water form on earth? How to the first living cell become alive too? Water is H2O two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom Hydrogen has one electron oxygen has 8 electrons (2 the first shell 6 in the outer shell when they bond they share electrons so they can all have a full outershell and be more stable. http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5965/h2oln8.gif http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Origin-of-Life-made-easy Has a bit on the perviously mentioned abiogenesis in a easier to understand way.

2009-02-14 18:00:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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What if life is just like one big dream and then when you die you wake up and you are like this weird alien thing and everything is different like physics and stuff. It is sort of weird because God lives through no time and time is nothing to him so why is time something to us. Is this just some type of sick joke God is playing on us? Putting us on earth to suffer. Then when we died he is like ohh, gotcha and then we are like oh good one. This is confusing... I am going to bed Oh, here is a question for all evolution believers out their: So we had to study Evolution in 7th grade and we watched a lot of videos and it said earth formed and then water formed on earth. My question is how did the water form on earth? How to the first living cell become alive too? O.K., now I am going to bed. theory: earth had a lot of gases during its early stages. All the gases "condense?" into clouds and then it rains a lot.

2009-02-14 18:11:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Water is H2O two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom Hydrogen has one electron oxygen has 8 electrons (2 the first shell 6 in the outer shell when they bond they share electrons so they can all have a full outershell and be more stable. well duh but how did the gases get on this earth with out someone putting it on Earth?

2009-02-14 18:51:00 Author: Unknown User

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well duh but how did the gases get on this earth with out someone putting it on Earth? Fused in stars in the later phases of their life and distributed if that star goes supernova.

2009-02-14 19:16:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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Different religions have different answers but my response is "God is love, he yearns to love and to be loved. We are created in his own image thats why we feel the same way among each other." (all humans have this feeling Its pretty much proven, they had 5 babies that had all they need to survive, food, water, safe environment, people would change their diaper, but their will never any communication given. All babies died) Yes, humans do need love, but God is not a human. He shouldn't be like that. He shouldn't need any love or praise or worship since he is perfect. If he does, that means he is missing something. Their is no life when their is no freewill. You won't have any of your own opinions, you won't have inhibitions, you won't make your own choices since your opinion doesn't exsist. You will just agree with whatever God says. Whats so bad about that? Can you really love someone if you didn't have the choice to not love them? God wants love, not mindless worshipers who bow to his every whim. You really think the Christian god gives freewill? No. No, he doesn't. That is why he created hell. He created hell to put everyone who disobeyed his will. So let's say that you have a chocolate bar and I had a gun. I say "Give me the chocolate bar or I will shoot you in the head every hour on the hour, but you will never die. You will feel every agonizing second until the end of time.". Would you hand over the chocolate bar?

2009-02-15 01:58:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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There are many theories about how water came. Some say it could have come on an iced over asteroid. But the amounts of raw gases that were here probably did condense and form water, leading to all life. How they got here is the same way the rest of earth got here, gravity. Large amounts of gravity pulling debris, gasses etc inward forming the earth.

2009-02-15 02:42:00 Author: chiropractor345 Posts: 161

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Yes, humans do need love, but God is not a human. He shouldn't be like that. He shouldn't need any love or praise or worship since he is perfect. If he does, that means he is missing something. You really think the Christian god gives freewill? No. No, he doesn't. That is why he created hell. He created hell to put everyone who disobeyed his will. So let's say that you have a chocolate bar and I had a gun. I say "Give me the chocolate bar or I will shoot you in the head every hour on the hour, but you will never die. You will feel every agonizing second until the end of time.". Would you hand over the chocolate bar? ....Yes.... Jesus loves me this a know, for the bible tells me so.

2009-02-15 02:50:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Yes, humans do need love, but God is not a human. He shouldn't be like that. He shouldn't need any love or praise or worship since he is perfect. If he does, that means he is missing something. As I said Humans are made in the image of God, so the yearning to love and be love comes from God To be perfect is to be without flaw not to never need anything. By flaw we talk about mistakes, or lacking of something. So you say he lacks love? Quite the opposite, he is full of love and he wants to share. Also you seem to be missing the first part that is a nature of God. God wants to love and be loved. You seem to focus on "God created us so we can love him" which is the wrong concept. Once again its "A yearning to love and to be loved" You really think the Christian god gives freewill? No. No, he doesn't. That is why he created hell. He created hell to put everyone who disobeyed his will. So let's say that you have a chocolate bar and I had a gun. I say "Give me the chocolate bar or I will shoot you in the head every hour on the hour, but you will never die. You will feel every agonizing second until the end of time.". Would you hand over the chocolate bar? He gave freewill by creating choice, as you said why coudn't he just make it so we all love him, he made it so we have a choice. Hell is not for those who doesn't love him, Hell is for those distructive souls that choose to make life miserable for everyone. To say God gives us an option of "Love me or go to hell" contradicts the whole notion of giving us the choice to begin with. Besides to say that is also saying Atheist and Agnostics will go to hell, which isn't the case. Hell is for the bigots, ignorant, morons, that cause a lot of suffering in the world. I don't think God will go "Hey you donated a lot of money to a bunch of charities, you never made anyone cry...but it seems that you never accepted Jesus as your lord and savior, so yea...see that place down their where people are screaming...yea....." Of course this is my belief, other religious sects have other beliefs.

2009-02-15 07:44:00 Author: Reshin Posts: 1081

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Was brought up with Church of Wales in the household (Mum still visits every week) but my brothers and I pretty much drifted away. Science presents a lot of answers and I see God doing little else so it's tricky to believe in the big man. Omnipotent? No chance. Also, evolution has some staggeringly strong evidence and there's no room for that in The Bible. The first complete Bible was put together around 400AD. What were they doing until then? Patents/Copyrights don't take that long.

2009-02-15 15:30:00 Author: bunimomike Posts: 6

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As I said Humans are made in the image of God, so the yearning to love and be love comes from God To be perfect is to be without flaw not to never need anything. By flaw we talk about mistakes, or lacking of something. So you say he lacks love? Quite the opposite, he is full of love and he wants to share. Also you seem to be missing the first part that is a nature of God. God wants to love and be loved. You seem to focus on "God created us so we can love him" which is the wrong concept. Once again its "A yearning to love and to be loved"He shouldn't have a yearn. He shouldn't have any desires or motivations to do anything. A perfect being is one that has everything he could ever ask for. He has no motivation to make something or love something. He's just a lazy, slothful being that does nothing. He gave freewill by creating choice, as you said why coudn't he just make it so we all love him, he made it so we have a choice. Hell is not for those who doesn't love him, Hell is for those distructive souls that choose to make life miserable for everyone. To say God gives us an option of "Love me or go to hell" contradicts the whole notion of giving us the choice to begin with. Besides to say that is also saying Atheist and Agnostics will go to hell, which isn't the case. Hell is for the bigots, ignorant, morons, that cause a lot of suffering in the world. I don't think God will go "Hey you donated a lot of money to a bunch of charities, you never made anyone cry...but it seems that you never accepted Jesus as your lord and savior, so yea...see that place down their where people are screaming...yea....." Of course this is my belief, other religious sects have other beliefs.Well, that is in your book. We are born into sin and accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is the only way to cleanse that sin. If you do not cleanse your sin, you will go to hell for eternity. No ifs, ands, or buts. So, basically, anyone who isn't Christian is going to hell, while all Christians are going to heaven. Hitler went to heaven while the millions of Jews he tortured went to hell. Sounds fair to me.

2009-02-15 16:40:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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So, basically, anyone who isn't Christian is going to hell, while all Christians are going to heaven. Hitler went to heaven while the millions of Jews he tortured went to hell. Sounds fair to me. I'd just like to point out that Hitler's status as a Christian is doubtful (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html). Besides, suicide is a "Mortal Sin" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_suicide#Christianity) in Christianity, so he would have gone to Hell, if it was real. Which it's not.

2009-02-15 16:52:00 Author: Winston-Smith Posts: 81

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Jesus loves me this a know, for the bible tells me so. Splicer!!!

2009-02-15 17:03:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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I'd just like to point out that Hitler's status as a Christian is doubtful (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html). Besides, suicide is a "Mortal Sin" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_suicide#Christianity) in Christianity, so he would have gone to Hell, if it was real. Which it's not.It isn't doubtful that Hitler was Christian. It might be debatable, but not doubtful. As for the suicide sin, that is only a sin because the Catholic church says so, not the Bible. They really don't have the authority to declare it as a sin. So the suicide question is also up in the air. Anyway, this was just an example so it's not that important. Instead, I will say that the 2 billion people on the Earth that are Christians will go to heaven, while the 4.8 billion other people go to hell.

2009-02-15 17:11:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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He shouldn't have a yearn. He shouldn't have any desires or motivations to do anything. A perfect being is one that has everything he could ever ask for. He has no motivation to make something or love something. He's just a lazy, slothful being that does nothing. Well thats your view of a perfect being, keep in mind not everyone has that definition....I think of it as someone full of love so they made someone to share it with, so the need fulfilled. To me wanting something is not a sign of imperfectness,God showed many times he wanted something. Makes more sense that way.... Well, that is in your book. We are born into sin and accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is the only way to cleanse that sin. If you do not cleanse your sin, you will go to hell for eternity. No ifs, ands, or buts. So, basically, anyone who isn't Christian is going to hell, while all Christians are going to heaven. Hitler went to heaven while the millions of Jews he tortured went to hell. Sounds fair to me. Thats a literal translation, to accept Jesus in your life is to say "I will use Jesus's way of life to live mine". Jesus lived a life of kindness,forgiveness,patience, and a lot of good qualities, which will get us into heaven. Also some christians will go to hell, its not "I accept Jesus in my life, so I'm going to heaven" The Bible says it, the faith means nothing, its our actions. It isn't doubtful that Hitler was Christian. It might be debatable, but not doubtful. As for the suicide sin, that is only a sin because the Catholic church says so, not the Bible. They really don't have the authority to declare it as a sin. So the suicide question is also up in the air. Hitler's hatred to christians was only second to the jews. According to Hitler's biography, he pretended to be christian so he can get the popular vote, once he was in power, he sent a lot of them to concentration camps. (Funny thing about Hitler is that his mom was a Jew...) Also, Suicide is a sin, need a verse? (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God&'s temple is sacred, and you are that temple. If you want something more precise the 6th commandment says "thou shall not kill", pretty sure that includes you...

2009-02-15 17:56:00 Author: Reshin Posts: 1081

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I never have and never will believe there is just a thing as 'god'. No heaven or hell, just us running around on planet earth doing what we will in the time we have. Religion is a crutch to lean on. Most of us need to have faith in someone or something just to make life easier to get through.I have faith in myself and that's enough. I don't need religion to be spritual, I find that in my own thoughts and feelings. I have nothing against anyone who has a faith, good luck to you. I will say this though. In the name of religion, far too many people have died. Wars go hand in hand with faith, something I wish no part in

2009-02-15 18:01:00 Author: pembo Posts: 38

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Thats a literal translation, to accept Jesus in your life is to say "I will use Jesus's way of life to live mine". Jesus lived a life of kindness,forgiveness,patience, and a lot of good qualities, which will get us into heaven. Also some christians will go to hell, its not "I accept Jesus in my life, so I'm going to heaven" The Bible says it, the faith means nothing, its our actions.I have to say that you are a minority then. Most Christians, including preachers and pastors, preach a faith-based religion. It doesn't matter how many good things you do, you are born into sin. You are a sinner from birth and the only way out is Jesus. http://www.gotquestions.org/personal-Savior.html http://www.crochetnmore.com/praisehim.htm http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081024141648AAXEspi http://www.greggmcgregor.com/accept_jesus.html http://www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/articles/salvation/savior.html These are just in the first page of googling "accepting Jesus as your personal savior". Most say that the person needs to repent and confess their sins, accept Christ, and live your life in service of Him. Good works will NEVER save a soul from Hell. Anyway, since this Hitler example ended up being flawed because of his suicide and Christian critiques, I'll change it. The soldiers who carried out his orders of torture went to heaven while the Jews they tortured will burn in Hell.

2009-02-15 18:34:00 Author: Voltiare Posts: 646

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These are just in the first page of googling "accepting Jesus as your personal savior". Most say that the person needs to repent and confess their sins, accept Christ, and live your life in service of Him. Good works will NEVER save a soul from Hell. Anyway, since this Hitler example ended up being flawed because of his suicide and Christian critiques, I'll change it. The soldiers who carried out his orders of torture went to heaven while the Jews they tortured will burn in Hell. Most catholics have a live and let live philosophy, so I can't really vouch for the protestant sects when I say this, but it is thought that those that say they are christian and just ignore the poor, break the commandments, etc., are hypocrites and will burn in hell. I think theirs a verse on this, but I can't remember on the top of my head. To be Christian is to be christ like, so by that definition, your a christian if you live a righteous life. By that belief, some of the SS and Jews went to heaven, some went to hell. God is wise, he doesn't discriminate. Just because your _______ doesn't mean you'll go to heaven/hell. (insert whatever group you want on the blank)

2009-02-15 19:29:00 Author: Reshin Posts: 1081

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