Archive: 19 posts

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So we're 5 years or so into LBP and so many great levels have been created! There are levels with epic visuals, presentation, story and characters that captivate, mesmerize and hypnotize you with awesomeness, and others you simply can't stop playing because it's so dam fun! Then there are the rare ones, the full packages...amazing visuals, presentation, story, gameplay and is just generally all around awesomesauce! But sadly...those levels ARE rare...very rare... I personally can't name many levels that delivers exceptionally on all fronts...Nowadays, you often get a visually stunning platformer with only averagely interesting/mildly fun gameplay. Then you get levels you can't get enough of, but the visuals are kinda...well...meh... I mostly blame LBP2s limitations...but why do YOU think those levels are rare? ...and which do you prefer? Something you and your friends can play a gajillion times and not get bored? Or something awe-inspiring that speaks profoundly to the pit of your soul and changes your life forever...? Whaaat..? Both? Why you indecisive little...

2014-02-17 09:54:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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I'd go with fun. As you say, too many platformers out there that look great, but the gameplay can be a bit bland and uninteresting. Of course, it depends on how the level is marketed and the setting. So a level intended to be a "visual experience" is fine, but a level intended to be more of a "pretty platformer" is gonna have to have some decent platforming to keep me interested. I'd still prefer a crap looking level with good gameplay though.

2014-02-17 10:50:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I prefer a fun level as well. Visuals don't entirely matter to me if the gameplay is captivating and engaging enough to come back for and enjoy. There are a SLEW of levels that I've hearted that consist of, like, a handful of objects and the background, but it's so fun to fool around that the visual experience is completely overshadowed. I do appreciate beautifully crafted levels, and it's great to find one that hits the notes on both the scenic and gameplay aspects, but there have been loads of times that I've been in a totally awesome-looking level (labeled as a platformer), but get really bored because it consists of only walking--it's like a museum without being there or learning something, so that's not much fun. I also agree with Ali_Star about the solely visual experience levels--ones that make it clear that the visuals are where it's at. If know what I'm getting into, and if I just want to relax a sec and take a look at what people can do in-game, that's worth it. If it has platforming elements kind of lazily shoehorned in when it doesn't really need it, it comes off as a pretty but boring platformer, but that's just my opinion. Sometimes it's hard to totally nail that balance. I dunno. It's kinda hard to tell for me. :U

2014-02-17 12:08:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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I personally prefer a complete package. Which includes a fun story and everything. And I often stay away from levels that only have a single good aspect about them as I often don't find them very fun. Honestly asking people which they prefer on a gaming forum is a bit of a loaded question. As the common answer you will get is "Gameplay first" or the 2nd most common "Overall balance" Personally I think visuals matter little more to me because if I find the level I'm trying to play unbearably ugly or the opposite of my tastes then I can't enjoy it plain and simple. Even with that said, A simple quick art style can be good looking if done right. And to me visuals means much more then pretty environments. It also means fun stylish character designs and unique looking contraptions and gizmos, ETC. But again, I'd put my self with one of those "balance is best" people. *mew

2014-02-17 13:50:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Free. /ba da ba da bum da

2014-02-17 13:54:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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I personally prefer a complete package. Which includes a fun story and everything. And I often stay away from levels that only have a single good aspect about them as I often don't find them very fun. Honestly asking people which they prefer on a gaming forum is a bit of a loaded question. As the common answer you will get is "Gameplay first" or the 2nd most common "Overall balance" Personally I think visuals matter little more to me because if I find the level I'm trying to play unbearably ugly or the opposite of my tastes then I can't enjoy it plain and simple. Even with that said, A simple quick art style can be good looking if done right. And to me visuals means much more then pretty environments. It also means fun stylish character designs and unique looking contraptions and gizmos, ETC. But again, I'd put my self with one of those "balance is best" people. *mew When people bring up the "fancy vs fun" debate, I tend to mention MrMik. Visually his levels aren't great (and he's not ashamed to admit it), but gameplay wise they're excellent and the right amount of challenging.

2014-02-17 14:41:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I'm a bit of an aesthetics sort of guy, and if a level isn't great on gameplay, as in, it's more of a tool to show off the creator's talent I don't mind, I really like to appreciate detail, I wouldn't blame LBP2's limitations, I believe a creator who can deliver everything that makes a level fantastic is incredibly hard to find, not to disrespect a lot of creators though - because level design is difficult, amazing level design is amazingly difficult.

2014-02-17 14:53:00 Author: Ironface Posts: 432

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When people bring up the "fancy vs fun" debate, I tend to mention MrMik. Visually his levels aren't great (and he's not ashamed to admit it), but gameplay wise they're excellent and the right amount of challenging. Not sure what you are getting at. If you are advertising the person's level and or expect to change my opinion. Then that's a bad idea. Because one you can't. Because I know what I do and don't like. And that's not gonna change. And what would happen if I did go play the guy's level and ending up hating it? Would be kinda rude to come back and say I didn't like it just to show you that I think you are wrong.

2014-02-17 14:55:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Not sure what you are getting at. If you are advertising the person's level and or expect to change my opinion. Then that's a bad idea. Because one you can't. Because I know what I do and don't like. And that's not gonna change. And what would happen if I did go play the guy's level and ending up hating it? Would be kinda rude to come back and say I didn't like it just to show you that I think you are wrong. You seem to have the wrong end of the shtick. I'm just using his levels as an example of some that don't let bad visuals get in the way of great gameplay. Don't get me wrong, they're not terrible to look at, just not particularly pretty.... though he does seem to be improving from his earlier stuff. And trust me, he doesn't need someone like me to advertise his stuff, he gets loads of plays! http://lbp.me/u/MrMik68

2014-02-17 15:04:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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You seem to have the wrong end of the shtick. I'm just using his levels as an example of some that don't let bad visuals get in the way of great gameplay. Don't get me wrong, they're not terrible to look at, just not particularly pretty.... though he does seem to be improving from his earlier stuff. And trust me, he doesn't need someone like me to advertise his stuff, he gets loads of plays! http://lbp.me/u/MrMik68 Not the worse example of bad visuals imo. But from the screen shots the gameplay looks like normal decent platformer levels. If so then it's not really my type of thing. Just like most of the MM picks nowadays, It's not my interest. *mew Some of my favorite levels are more like full games/Storymode levels. By people such as BobTox. Holguin86. pickled-punk. ETC.

2014-02-17 15:15:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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They're mostly puzzle/platformers with some interesting gameplay mechanics, far from "normal" platformers. Give them a go, I say. I'd highly recommend his levels.

2014-02-17 15:23:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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They're mostly puzzle/platformers with some interesting gameplay mechanics, far from "normal" platformers. Give them a go, I say. I'd highly recommend his levels. Actually I remember playing couple of his levels now that I look closer. But no. His levels are not my taste. I'm more of a storymode level with fun characters type of person. Or levels like this 1. http://lbp.me/v/gd6cvh

2014-02-17 15:33:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Actually I remember playing couple of his levels now that I look closer. But no. His levels are not my taste. I'm more of a storymode level with fun characters type of person. Or levels like this 1. http://lbp.me/v/gd6cvh I don't mind if there's a story or not, as long as the gameplay is interesting. That one you've mentioned (one of my hearted levels FYI) is a good example of a level that combines interesting gameplay with impressive visuals.

2014-02-17 15:56:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I personally prefer a complete package. Which includes a fun story and everything. And I often stay away from levels that only have a single good aspect about them as I often don't find them very fun. I probably shouldn't have made the focus just "visuals" for this thread. Really any levels that focuses more on presentation, story, character development, atmosphere etc., than it does gameplay.

2014-02-17 16:02:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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I don't mind if there's a story or not, as long as the gameplay is interesting. That one you've mentioned (one of my hearted levels FYI) is a good example of a level that combines interesting gameplay with impressive visuals. While levels that only have gameplay are fine. But they do get boring for me if I play to many of them often. I'm just more of a story and character person. But sadly not many people really spend the type on LBP to make story or characters. Or the people who do it are not very good at it. So a lot of people barely know even what they are missing imo. *mew And a level that has good balance like you just said is my point. I'm a extremely picky person in someways. And on LBP I'm especially that way often. You are lucky to see me heart more then a few levels in a month even when I play the game actively. I probably shouldn't have made the focus just "visuals" for this thread. Really any levels that focuses more on presentation, story, character development, atmosphere etc., than it does gameplay. Ah don't worry about it. perhaps it's just me going a bit off topic.

2014-02-17 16:07:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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With regards to story, it's tough to make a decent one in an LBP environment. Any with character development etc would most likely have to be told over multiple levels, AND the creator would have to do enough with each level to keep them interesting. A lot of LBP players don't really have the patience for long levels/series. I'm reluctant to play them myself. Not because I don't have the patience, but because there are so many levels out there, so in the brief amount of time I tend to spend with LBP2 these days, I'd prefer shorter levels so I can play as many as possible. Kinda related to that is one of my biggest regrets over my last project - I just made it too darn long. 30 stages for crying out loud! Though you can save your game and come back to it at a later point (a fairly unique concept when I first created it!), not many players have made it to the latter stages of the level, ie the stages that I spent the most sodding time on! So in hindsight, I should've released it in smaller parts. I think one series that had potential, that combined great visuals/story/characters etc with interesting gameplay is our very own rialrees's 'The Printz Diaries'. It's a shame she has never got around to completing the 2nd one.

2014-02-17 18:17:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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Normally my suggestion to people would be to make episodic story levels that story lines don't go past 2 levels (Or 3 levels if they run out of thrmo and the levels are really short). That way you get many different adventures with a single cast without being boring long stories. *mew

2014-02-17 18:29:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Its an issue , but mostly due to the misconception that stories can only be told one way. The problem with a lot Of levels In lbp that use story is that most people think a story is only told through Cutscenes. This results In a bad reputation lbp stories currently hold. Overly drawn out cutscenes that drag on and bores players . Gameplay, pacing, writing and artwork all contribute to narrative. We see this in the Printz diaries or a Sealed Fate ( Ria is still working on #2). And hopefully people see this combination prove effective in my game Coming up . Personally, I don't find a level fun that doesn't include story and gameplay.

2014-02-17 19:21:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Yeah I'd agree that cut-scenes unless they are super epic. Should otherwise be fairly short if they are none interactive. Making the story as intractable as possible will leave players more interested and enjoying themselves. Other option if a creator wants some scenes very long is to put the longer ones into their own separate levels that the player can skip over if they want.*mew

2014-02-17 19:35:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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