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Tag Sensor Problem

Archive: 14 posts

So, I'm in progress of making a level that uses a lot of Tags and Tag Sensors(Don't ask what it is - I'll make a proper thread for it when enough of it is complete), and there's one part where something falls down and its supposed to detect when it's below a certain point(Marked with five Tags in a row). The detector is simply a Tag Sensor with a 15-degree angle range, an infinite maximum detection range and a minimum range of 25. Now, these five tags that it detects are no where else in the level -- there are just these five, but when the detector is exactly level with the tags its not supposed to detect for a little while longer, it triggers.
Of course, this isn't my first time dealing with problems like this, so I made a small object that rotates around extremely slowly and notified me if it detected this tags, so I placed it down and had it let me know if it found anything within a 15-degree/infinite length range, and -- other than those five that I know about -- it found nothing.

Does anyone know what is going on? I really need help with this, since it's my main project and this one thing is actually a very major part of the level, so I can't continue without this being fixed.

EDIT: Here's a picture showing what's going on without any level spoilers:
http://ic.lbp.me/img/ft/92c3380b5fce6f89fb6f00d2b51df8373bf7d6c3.jpg		2013-11-04 12:10:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

Why do you need a Sensor with such a tiny radius and 5 Tags?
Would a Tag Sensor with a 180 degree radius and 1 Tag not be sufficient?
I've always encountered issues with very narrow Sensor radius'. I'm not sure exactly why, sometimes the game just doesn't seem to register.

In any case, you didn't mention anything about the angle your Sensor is at. Is it 90 degrees to the right or something? If so 7.5 degrees of the Sensors radius would be below perfectly horizontal, causing the Sensor to activate too soon.
Don't suppose you could give us a screenshot or something?		2013-11-04 12:44:00

Author:
Ostler5000
Posts: 1017

The tag sensor is supposed to only detect tags that are above it(As in, the tag sensor is not tilted -- its radius points upwards, if that makes sense), and it's only supposed to detect them when they're more than 25 of the LBP unit of measurement away. I need it to be a fairly small angle because otherwise it'll detect one of the other four tags and trigger early.
I use five tags so that it's effectively a line of tags(Or a wall, if you like), and this method is very efficient for what I'm doing.
Unfortunately, providing a screenshot of what is going on where I'm having the trouble would literally be all spoilers. The really annoying thing is that once this is done, it's pretty much ready for revealing what it is(And then I just need a friend of mine to finish making the music for the level(It's only one song, so it shouldn't take long), and then I'll be able to upload the demo level).
Now, I'd just like to stress that last part a bit more - once I figure out how to fix this, the demo level will only take a few hours for me to finish!
Also, if anyone has any theories about what this is - please keep them to yourself! The less information that gets out about this before the reveal, the better. Besides, the reveal is probably only a few days away(Depending on how long it takes my friend to make that song).

Oh, and also, it's not five tags, it's ten(I'll explain why I forgot the other five when the demo level is up).		2013-11-04 20:45:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

The tag sensor is supposed to only detect tags that are above it(As in, the tag sensor is not tilted -- its radius points upwards, if that makes sense), and it's only supposed to detect them when they're more than 25 of the LBP unit of measurement away. I need it to be a fairly small angle because otherwise it'll detect one of the other four tags and trigger early.
I use five tags so that it's effectively a line of tags(Or a wall, if you like), and this method is very efficient for what I'm doing.
Unfortunately, providing a screenshot of what is going on where I'm having the trouble would literally be all spoilers. The really annoying thing is that once this is done, it's pretty much ready for revealing what it is(And then I just need a friend of mine to finish making the music for the level(It's only one song, so it shouldn't take long), and then I'll be able to upload the demo level).
Now, I'd just like to stress that last part a bit more - once I figure out how to fix this, the demo level will only take a few hours for me to finish!
Also, if anyone has any theories about what this is - please keep them to yourself! The less information that gets out about this before the reveal, the better. Besides, the reveal is probably only a few days away(Depending on how long it takes my friend to make that song).

Oh, and also, it's not five tags, it's ten(I'll explain why I forgot the other five when the demo level is up).

Its kinda impossible to help you unless we know more information. Thats really what you have to sacrifice if you want better assistance. It just seems like theres a much easier way to do what you are trying to accomplish--whatever that is. For what its worth, less than one percent of the LBP population actually looks at these threads, so I dont think you would lose any element of surprise to a vast majority. A picture or some type of doodle would get you a lot more advice.

Good luck!		2013-11-05 03:34:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

I fail to see why you need to use a Tag Sensor with a minimum distance and narrow radius, plus 5 Tags, when simply relocating your Tag and using a 180 degree radius with a minimum distance of 0 would achieve the exact same thing.
You're making your own project arbitrarily fiddly.

Nor do I understand why you have any more than 1 Tag. If the Sensor only requires 1 Tag, just place 1 Tag. If the ten Tags are all required for something else, then just create copies and label them. So you have 10 Tags performing function X and just the single Tag performing function Y.		2013-11-05 11:18:00

Author:
Ostler5000
Posts: 1017

... Alright, I'll try a compromise...
http://ic.lbp.me/img/ft/92c3380b5fce6f89fb6f00d2b51df8373bf7d6c3.jpg
There we go. All spoilers are off-screen, and you all get to see my problem.
Also, the picture itself shows my problem a lot better than my explaination in the OP, so I probably should have done this from the start. XD		2013-11-05 14:14:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

I guess what I don't understand is why if you have such a narrow detection field with a need for precision, why you don't just use an impact sensor set to touch with the appropriate tags on a precisely shaped section of SP or holo. I have had regularly dependable results with this setup.2013-11-05 14:36:00

Author:
DreadRandal
Posts: 434

... Alright, I'll try a compromise...
http://ic.lbp.me/img/ft/92c3380b5fce6f89fb6f00d2b51df8373bf7d6c3.jpg
There we go. All spoilers are off-screen, and you all get to see my problem.
Also, the picture itself shows my problem a lot better than my explaination in the OP, so I probably should have done this from the start. XD

I was wondering if an impact sensor could accomplish this with more precision, however, we do not know the granduer of TC's design. If you insist on using tags, this may be able to be solved with basic troubleshooting.

My first suggestion would be to defiantly double check and see if there are any other hidden tags anywhere in the 25-max range. In range of the sensor. Move the sensor to a new level if necessary. (Only the sensor and tag. No other part of the level should be moved for testing purposes)

If that doesnt work,

Double check the maximum range and make sure its not mixed up with the minimum range. To do this, I would create a completely new tag sensor. This could also eliminate the possibility of a glitched tag sensor. Do not copy, and see if this fixes the problems( some logical items have been known to glitch rarely, I experienced it once).

These sound basic, but often its a very simple solution when it comes to tags and better to start with those first.		2013-11-05 19:07:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

I was wondering if an impact sensor could accomplish this with more precision, however, we do not know the granduer of TC's design. If you insist on using tags, this may be able to be solved with basic troubleshooting.
I might be able to get it working with impact sensors, but so much is based on tag sensing that replacing it with impact sensors would take a very long time and could create some very major bugs along the way.
Also, this requires it to detect it when it's at least 25 somethingorathers away with an unlimited maximum range, so accomplishing that with impact sensors could be problematic.

My first suggestion would be to defiantly double check and see if there are any other hidden tags anywhere in the 25-max range. In range of the sensor. Move the sensor to a new level if necessary. (Only the sensor and tag. No other part of the level should be moved for testing purposes)
That was the first thing I tried, and I didn't find anything.
Also, I'm going to repeat myself and make one thing very clear: The tag sensor doesn't activate until it is right on top of the tag. It's supposed to only activate when it's at least 25 somethingorathers away. But, I do appreciate the help anyway.

Double check the maximum range and make sure its not mixed up with the minimum range. To do this, I would create a completely new tag sensor. This could also eliminate the possibility of a glitched tag sensor. Do not copy, and see if this fixes the problems( some logical items have been known to glitch rarely, I experienced it once).
I have also made sure of this. As I said before, the minimum range is 25, the maximum range is infinite, so mixing those up would actually be impossible.
I'll mess around with this bug a bit more tomorrow if no one else has any ideas by then, and if anyone wants any more details, do ask, although I'm pretty sure I've covered everything.
Oh, wait, I almost forgot something I discovered before taking that screenshot - the tag sensor flickers on and off as it's going over the tag, so I don't know if that's significant at all, but I'd really like this fixed ASAP so I'm mentioning anything that might get this bug squashed.
I could make a temporary workaround if we can't get this fixed, but it wouldn't be as efficient, and -- seriously -- this level needs to be as efficient(Both in logic simplicity and Thermometer) as possible if it's going to work properly.		2013-11-05 20:42:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

TC I would defiantly recheck your logic. I'm sticking to my original theory something is activating the tag, or that tag sensor has glitched. If you tried using a completely new tag sensor already, its a glitch, but again, not likely. Especially if the same problem happens when you reboot.

I created this fairly quickly and did not encounter that problem. I did however encounter the flickering tag. THIS IS WIERD..but I wouldn't stress over it. In this case, a simple solution would be either to change the trigger range to at least 23 or use a counter to activate instead of a tag sensor:


Since this is a vertical design,this will work, but you will need a Microchip for your tag sensor. Attach the tag sensor to the input of a counter( set to 1) and then hook that counter up to whatever the tag sensor was supposed to activate. Then use a second Tag Sensor (labeled the same and in the same microchip) set with a minimum range of 101 to deactivate the counter . (Adjust accordingly as I still do not know what you are trying to accomplish or what direction the tag is coming from, but I am assuming South to North.)
So basically whatever is activated will deactivate once it is out of range of the first sensor. This will allow you to keep the small 15 degree angle and dodge the blinking tag sensor problem.

The placement of the tag could be throwing it off as well. Maybe put it on a blank holo in the same position and see if it helps. Not likely though

I generally recommend placing everything inside of a microchip anyway, but thats just me.
Hope that helps!		2013-11-06 03:32:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

This is why I always use impact sensors with shaped invisible sticker panel as the impact area.2013-11-06 11:21:00

Author:
Tynz21
Posts: 544

Indeed, although unfortunately, that wouldn't work in my situation since it needs to detect it when it's a certain distance away.
Anyway, RPG Maker, I just messed around and found out that it's not a glitched tag sensor.
The way this is supposed to work is that the object passes over the tag without the sensor activating and then when it's 25 somethings away, it's supposed to activate, but how it's working currently is that it passes over the tag and the sensor starts flickering on. This is very bad, since what I'm making requires precision because it involves emitters and destroyers.
As a temporary workaround, I'm using an AND Gate and an inverted tag sensor set to 25. However, this is inefficient and I would really like a way to just use one tag sensor, since minimising thermo is vitally important in what I'm making(Yeah, I know it's just a small thing, but seriously, even the smallest thermo-saver can be a big help).		2013-11-06 12:17:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

Indeed, although unfortunately, that wouldn't work in my situation since it needs to detect it when it's a certain distance away.
Anyway, RPG Maker, I just messed around and found out that it's not a glitched tag sensor.
The way this is supposed to work is that the object passes over the tag without the sensor activating and then when it's 25 somethings away, it's supposed to activate, but how it's working currently is that it passes over the tag and the sensor starts flickering on. This is very bad, since what I'm making requires precision because it involves emitters and destroyers.
As a temporary workaround, I'm using an AND Gate and an inverted tag sensor set to 25. However, this is inefficient and I would really like a way to just use one tag sensor, since minimising thermo is vitally important in what I'm making(Yeah, I know it's just a small thing, but seriously, even the smallest thermo-saver can be a big help).

Yea I encountered the flickering tag and it makes ZERO since, but thats why my second recommendation would work. There are other ways of course, but adding tag sensors will not effect your thermometer lol. Trust me, my level has a kagillion tags. And you can easily duplicate that logic to apply to other areas for speed purposes.

Using an And Gate will not solve the problem because the input will still flicker--in fact, it seems like that would require more logic than my method of simply using a counter and duplicate tag sensor to cancel it. (Same name but altered minimum range).

But glad you figured the tag out, that was quite weird from the sounds of it. Make sure to post this in the levels section so I can check it out!		2013-11-06 19:01:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

Indeed I will.
There are just a few more things I need to add to it before it's complete, but it should only take a few days at the most.
EDIT: In case anyone's curious, this is going very slowly, but still going. I am determined to finish this, since I've never actually released anything in LBP that I'm really proud of, but when I finish this, that will change.		2013-11-06 20:37:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409


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