Archive: 13 posts

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This is a thread dedicated to level keys, something that's been bothering me for a while: When is it a good time to use them? Is it EVER? Level Keys, as you know, are used for unlocking a level for people to play. This is good for those who have a long story they want to have that encompasses a few levels. However, this severely limits the amount of people likely to play your later levels. So, I ask you this... What are your thoughts on level keys? If someone wants a series of levels, should they make it have keys and probably lower those who'll play their later levels, or should they make all levels unlocked and ruin part of their story but raise their play count? What are your thoughts?

2009-01-27 01:56:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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I think they are an interesting feature, but from experience, I can tell you that if a level is locked, it will likely hardly be played by anyone (unless the level with the key is absurdly popular, and the key is impossible to miss or something). It seems like a good idea to lock later levels in a series, but I just don't think it's worth it. The general population of players seem to: A: Not finish the first level at all, or barely even try. B: Complete the level, but miss/ignore the key (assuming it's not impossible to miss) C: Collect the key, but not check out the level it unlocked because that would mean extra work in searching for it (or maybe they didn't like the first level, and assume the locked level is the same). D: Actually try the level after finding the key. D is really a rare occurrence. I'm fairly sure people will agree with me on this if they've tried locking levels before. Point is, if you're making a series of levels, it might be best to leave them unlocked, and adjust the story a bit to catch players that are playing out of order up. Obviously, I would recommend trying the first part of a series in the level description or something.

2009-01-27 03:44:00 Author: gameguy888 Posts: 159

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It seems like a good idea to lock later levels in a series, but I just don't think it's worth it. The general population of players seem to: A: Not finish the first level at all, or barely even try. B: Complete the level, but miss/ignore the key (assuming it's not impossible to miss) C: Collect the key, but not check out the level it unlocked because that would mean extra work in searching for it (or maybe they didn't like the first level, and assume the locked level is the same). D: Actually try the level after finding the key. D is really a rare occurrence. I'm fairly sure people will agree with me on this if they've tried locking levels before. the general populations of LBP players seem to suck! lol whats with those guys, from now on my levels will be marketed to the LBP elite... the ruling class in the LBP caste system!

2009-01-27 03:50:00 Author: Madafaku Posts: 738

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The biggest factor, however, is that if you lock the later levels, then you will be very likely to have a large heart ratio/rating on the later levels, as only the people that like the series will play them. I would only lock the finale though, or something. Like if you did LoZ:OoT and wanted them to do the forest/fire/water temples, and then the fight against Ganon, you would give them either a key in the water temple, or a sticker in each level, for a sticker entry system.

2009-01-27 03:57:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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Again, people are lazy. Friends and people asked to play the level here and/or elsewhere excluded, I doubt many (if any) people would bother trying to get to the final level. Especially if you want to use a sticker entry system, since people don't like prize bubbles for some reason... not only that, but it would work against you, since I'm sure players new to the series would go to that level and rate it badly because they can't play it. It sounds like a good idea, but with the community of this game as it is, it seems to me like it can only backfire.

2009-01-27 06:52:00 Author: gameguy888 Posts: 159

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Luos_Desruc Had a system in his levels where you needed a sticker which you found in the end of the last level to play later parts of the series. This allows people to see the later parts of the level and then easily go to the first but they can still not do more than just start the later parts without playing the previous ones. This Is probably the best solution but it still gives your later levels a lower rating etc because of all the people who can't read / don't bother to read the description and still start the level. What Mm should have done instead of this system is probably something similar to their storymode badges, if you make a series of levels you should be able to connect them together and then each level will show up like a Level Series Badge (but not if there are multiple of levels in the same series as they will be put together then) and when you click on the badge it would open and display all parts of your series, then it doesn't matter if the last level is the one with highest rating, everyone would be able to easily access all parts of the level from every badge. Then you could also have features like; rate the whole series, have a special series badge and heart the whole seres etc.

2009-01-27 06:59:00 Author: Marklin80 Posts: 458

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That idea seems good. In fact, I'd enjoy it greatly. It basically negates all the flaws I mentioned so far.

2009-01-27 08:03:00 Author: gameguy888 Posts: 159

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It's interesting that you can put in keys to unlocked levels. In this way you can create a series without locking the levels. By doing it this way, I think you do get people to try your other levels. I did this for a while, linking my "score challenge" although it was unlocked. It did seem effective in drumming up plays for the challenge map. I think if your series is really well done, it's not a bad idea to lock challenges and other levels via keys, but you do have to understand what you are doing to your potential number of plays, and accept that.

2009-01-27 17:44:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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What Mm should have done instead of this system is probably something similar to their storymode badges, if you make a series of levels you should be able to connect them together and then each level will show up like a Level Series Badge (but not if there are multiple of levels in the same series as they will be put together then) and when you click on the badge it would open and display all parts of your series, then it doesn't matter if the last level is the one with highest rating, everyone would be able to easily access all parts of the level from every badge. Then you could also have features like; rate the whole series, have a special series badge and heart the whole seres etc. Well, when a level is locked and a key for it is in the level, you can see an arrow linking to it when you look at all the levels made by a creator. You can't rate the overall series, but you can at least see which level you need to go to if you want to get a key to a locked one. If no levels have the key, then it just appears as a locked level. I think the attitude you have to series and locking them depends on how you view plays and hearts. If you are not fussed by them, then locking them is not a bad thing, in fact, it makes sense from an overall story flow point of view. If you keep a locked system, you don't have to make a "previously on (series name)..." section at the start of a level as the players would have had to have done the previous stuff to have gotten that far. Locking sequels can be a big turn off though to the casual player of levels, especially if your level is mediocre. Why would you play a ho hum sequel when you can just find a brand new level with the possible promise of being better? And of course, if hearts and play numbers are important to you, even if you are a serious level designer and you do produce great levels, the very act of locking sequels might still be a turn off to some people. If I was to ever make a story based series I think I would go down the locked route, to be honest. I'd rather reward fans for following the series rather than pander to the masses with a short attention span.

2009-01-28 10:31:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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I think it all depends on what the author feels is a just reward for their efforts. Not locking the level would mean more hearts and plays (and the occasional H4H comment). Each part of a series of levels will be played independently though, and will also be rated independently. There's no guarantee that any one person will take the time to play more than one of the levels, let alone the whole set. Locking the level means fewer hearts and plays on the other levels of the set. However, the players that do take the time to play the rest of the set will probably give better ratings and comments, because they already enjoyed the first level enough to give the other ones a try. Obviously, the first level will always get more plays than the rest.

2009-01-28 11:15:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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A minor question I have with the keys, can you: Place a key, Tweak it to unlock a certain level, then capture it, then give it as a level-complete gift?

2009-01-29 01:49:00 Author: DRT99 Posts: 431

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A minor question I have with the keys, can you: Place a key, Tweak it to unlock a certain level, then capture it, then give it as a level-complete gift? I can't imagine why not, HOWEVER... it wouldn't work like an actual key. It would be a "Captured" key, so to speak. Basically, what this means is that they would have to go to their moon, place the item in their level, and switch to play mode to unlock your level.

2009-01-29 01:56:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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A minor question I have with the keys, can you: Place a key, Tweak it to unlock a certain level, then capture it, then give it as a level-complete gift? You can capture a key as an object, but you cannot have any object that contains a level key, in whole or in part, given away in the scoreboard section of the level. That includes level complete prizes, collected all objects prizes, and aced level prizes. The only way to "give" a player a level key in a level is to have them walk over it. You can make this extremely obvious or extremely hidden, it's up to you. Many authors place their keys near the final scoreboard, within shot of the final scene where they can't move far away of the scoreboard itself. This allows the players to still grab the key even after they finish. You can't "tweak" level keys. Every level you have published will give you a level key, whether it's locked or not. You can't "tweak" a key from one level to make it go to another one. You need to publish the second level and then use the appropriate key. Still though, it's all up to you as the level author. You could funnel the players through a small gap and force them to walk past a key if you really, really wanted them to pick it up.

2009-01-29 10:12:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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