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MM's Next Game

Archive: 91 posts

Thread title to probably be changed in 10 or so days, since I'm guessing they'll announce it formally at E3.

Anyway, I'm sure you all remember the puppet dance at the PS4 reveal (I've read that all the marionettes were controlled by the Move). Also, it will be a 3D game creation tool where you "Sculpt" with the Move. (These were facts confirmed in latest GameInformer).

So, what do you guys think about it compared to LBP? Are you willing to make the leap? And on another note, since it probably won't be LBP, I suggest we create a new site for it. Since I'm assuming it'll be the next big PCS game. Not officially linked to this, but eh. Anyway, thoughts on the general concept/ anticipation for E3?

And here's the interview with Mark Healey of Media Molecule (Bold is GameInformer):


When did you guys first hear about the PS4 and start to mess around with it?

Probably about two years ago or something. I've got a very vague memory of that time, but it was at least that long. Mark Cerny was actually the guy that was leading the hardware design, and there were lots of conversations up here- it was a constant back and forth. That was more with the programmers, it was more to do with the technical side of things, but there was a very open dialogue. We think Sony this time is very keen to make sure it is nice to develop on and have the various features and things that they wanted.

What is it that made you guys gravitate toward the Move controller as opposed to a more traditional controller?

We started before the PS4 controller ever existed. We kind of said to ourselves, if we're going to do user-created content that allows you to make 3D content, it's the only device we know of that's actually a 3D input device. With sculpting or even just positioning an object in 3D space, traditionally you have to look at something that looks like a technical drawing and then move it on one axis and then move it on the other axis. With the Move controller it's just one direct thing. You get to move your hand how you want the thing to move, so it's much more intuitive.
For the sculpting and those kinds of things it's perfect. We are going to experiment with using the new PS4 controller for these things as well, but that's what we've been focusing on. We appreciate that we've got battles to fight. We know that previously no one's made a really great Move controller game- that's my honest opinion. The fact is it is actually a very precise, amazing piece of technology, and it feels criminal to me that no one's actually done it justice. So we've just said **** it, we'll take those battles and we're going to prove that there's an experience you can have with this thing that no one's had yet.
I think in the past a lot of Move games have tried to emulate what the Wii was doing, which is the wrong way to go in my opinion because the Move controller is actually really good at very small, precise movements. things like sculpting are a great example of that.

So you guys are also looking at how the PS4 controller might fit into the game as well?

Yeah. We'd be silly not to. What we're saying to ourselves is that we want to allow people to make things, such as movies, game experiments, music- that kind of thing. There's two sides to this: people that make stuff, and people that consume the things that are made. Obviously, you want to be able to play that that have been made with this tool with the Dualshock 4. On some level it will definitely support the controller; it will have to.

What was the initial concept when you started designing?

The best thing I could say is "Play, Create, Share Evolved" was our tagline. We feel that with LittleBigPlanet we kind of put our flag in the sand: This is how we think Play, Create, Share should be done. That was pretty successful. It's worth getting forward with that concept, but without having to carry some of the baggage that we've built ourselves with LittleBigPlanet.

People were confused about how you guys were controlling things during the PS4 reveal. Can you explain how the controls work and what you guys were doing on stage?

This is something that I should never do, but I'm looking through forums to see what kind of feedback there was, and some people thought, "Okay so they showed this sculpting thing and then they showed something that looked like Rock Band." They were just totally confused. The thing that maybe didn't come across as clear was that rock performance at the end, what we were showing is that there was puppeteering. That was the essence of it, the fact that we chose to do a rock show was incidental really. We tried to make it clear that we were controlling those characters. There was a lot of speculation on how fake it was, and it wasn't fake at all. That was a genuine Move controller performance that we did with those puppets. That was the eky thing about that- we've got this amazing puppeteering technology. It's just amazing how emotive it can be. All the things a skilled puppeteer can do with a puppet, you can so with these virtual puppets. We can add the magic of what computers can do, too. It's just fantastic.

Is this new game basically going o be a puppet game?

No, but that's just one aspect of it. That is what we were demonstrating there- a way that you can animate characters. We will exploit that in any example content that we make, but I wouldn't want to say it's a puppet game; not yet anyway.

Do you still think it's a game, or do you think it's more of a creation software kit?

It would depend who you ask. Very early on in LittleBigPlanet we had many arguments on whether we were making a game-creation tool or whether we were making a platform game and it ended up somewhere between the two. Maybe history will repeat itself, maybe not, I don't know. We definitely want to make something you can come to and you have a fun experience with, that's the key thing.		2013-05-30 19:22:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Not a great fan of PS Move if I'm totally honest :I I would prefer sticking to the controller. But whatever, as long as the gameplay's good then it should be fun 2013-05-30 19:28:00

Author:
flamingemu
Posts: 1872

Not a great fan of PS Move if I'm totally honest :I I would prefer sticking to the controller. But whatever, as long as the gameplay's good then it should be fun

I read in the article that they were working on having a controller available, too... I think. I can't find it online, but if need be I'll write it all up. Only if people want me to, though, because that'd be work. I HATE EFFORT. WHAAAAAAAAA		2013-05-30 19:32:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

I might get this, but if you already own a PS Move, can you use it for PS4 or a new PS Move?2013-05-30 20:49:00

Author:
amoney1999
Posts: 1202

I might get this, but if you already own a PS Move, can you use it for PS4 or a new PS Move?

I think I read somewhere that the PS4 will use the same Move. I think.		2013-05-30 20:53:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Hmmm... pretty sure they said during the ps4 reveal that Mm's and Quantic Dream's pitches were tech demos only and not games...

The move being used as a creation tool more than a control method (although control was showcased). People seem to want a 3D LBP, and for that you would need an effective create mode... maybe Mm has found it?

They said they were stepping back from LBP for a while... it has been a while and some other studios have had a go and Mm has worked on tearaway... it might be time for them to step back in now that the technology has finally caught up with the dream.		2013-05-30 22:24:00

Author:
ForgottenEnigma
Posts: 1414

Well, again, the GI article confirmed it was for a game that will be announced.

Eh, I'm just going to type up the interview.		2013-05-30 22:29:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

What I'd really like is this:
MM making some sort of sculpting app or something for the PS4, and you can save the models into the hardrive, and the PS4 could have something like Steam Workshop and put the models in other games for extra fun and stuff.

A game would be really loved too, though		2013-05-31 04:50:00

Author:
TheUltraDeino
Posts: 1274

Yeah I 'recons it's a tech demo for a game, it would be alot of work to go to to make all those models if it were nothing more. as for the game, I'm expecting a 3d create tool more than a game of it's own.2013-05-31 09:31:00

Author:
Smudge228
Posts: 533

Yeah, it's definetly a 3D game maker

Is no one else excited?		2013-06-02 18:18:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Yeah, it's definetly a 3D game maker

Is no one else excited?

Well, this gives me a chance to use the move outside of Okami, so heck yes!		2013-06-02 18:21:00

Author:
TheUltraDeino
Posts: 1274

Yeah, it's definetly a 3D game maker

Is no one else excited?
I'm excited! I may actually get a Move controller for this.

I'm eager to find out a lot of details.


What's the game name? (Perhaps the game will just be called "Dream"!)
What kind of theme will it have? (LBP has a "craftworld/dreamy" theme); maybe we'll see something different with this new game?
Will gameplay be consistent throughout story levels like LBP's platforming, or will it be varied? Maybe the gameplay will be 3D platforming and adventure, like Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, or Psyconauts.
What will the story be about?
STEPHEN FRY?
What functionalities of the PS4 will the game utilize?
Will the game work much closer with the community like LBP has lately? (As in publishing community spotlights, and so on).



And on another note, since it probably won't be LBP, I suggest we create a new site for it. Since I'm assuming it'll be the next big PCS game.

For a new website, I think one called "CraftPlanet" or something of the sort should be made, to cover all creative and family friendly games like LBP, Tearaway, MNR, and so on. Oh! I thought of a PERFECT website name! I'll have to tell Taffey or someone about it.

:hero:		2013-06-02 20:42:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Well, again, I think we should wait until we know its official name before making a new website. Should just be 7 or 8 days till we find out

Also, I hope it allows for more open development but still maintaining the relative ease if use. Bringing LBP2 logic over would be a good start. Also, a save function. We need one if those		2013-06-02 20:46:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Original tech demo if anyone wants to see it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6tgJRRZurk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6tgJRRZurk		2013-06-02 21:21:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Making great cutscenes for your games is going to be fantastic! And those assets are incredible. Look at the drum kit, the guitar and the keyboard. And clearly they've got some sort of procedural animations for automatically placing the feet when you use puppeteer mode.2013-06-03 06:08:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Oh my goodness! I just watched the tech demo. This looks too good to be true, but MM says that was actually control with the move. I would buy a Ps4 just for this game. Definantly going to be watching this2013-06-05 22:39:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/355401687852253184

Explanation: @mmalex is Alex Evans from Media Molecule. Mm and Alex Evans showed their new game to Shuhei Yoshida, and he replied on Twitter saying "my mind was slightly blown and stopped functioning."		2013-07-12 21:39:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

This is the closest we'll get to news on Media Molecule's new project in a while, I take it. Oh well lol2013-07-12 21:41:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

WOAH, that games looks SIICCCKKKKKKK..

Im glad I have a PS Move, now I have to get a PS4.

WHY CANT THEY JUST STOP AT THE PS3 3 IS A GOOD NUMBER WHY MOVE ON TO 4 IS IT SOME RELIGIOUS RITUAL?!		2013-07-13 14:37:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

WOAH, that games looks SIICCCKKKKKKK..

Im glad I have a PS Move, now I have to get a PS4.

WHY CANT THEY JUST STOP AT THE PS3 3 IS A GOOD NUMBER WHY MOVE ON TO 4 IS IT SOME RELIGIOUS RITUAL?!

I know you're joking, so I'll joke too.

It's to make you suffer :kz:

Anyway, hope we hear about it at Gamescom, and it isn't that far off.		2013-07-13 14:41:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

WOAH, that games looks SIICCCKKKKKKK..

Im glad I have a PS Move, now I have to get a PS4.

WHY CANT THEY JUST STOP AT THE PS3 3 IS A GOOD NUMBER WHY MOVE ON TO 4 IS IT SOME RELIGIOUS RITUAL?!

Playstation is very devious with its trickery :arg:		2013-07-15 06:41:00

Author:
Xtrahuman
Posts: 431

Oh come on, first real news on the evolution of Play Create Share and no one here is excited? :kz:2013-07-15 20:19:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

https://twitter.com/mediamolecule/status/356141976594284544

Media Molecule will be at Gamescom this year. They're likely showing off Tearaway, but they may present their "Dream" game.

Gamescom is occuring at 08/21-25/2013 (MM/DD-DD/YYYY).		2013-07-16 01:44:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Wonder if the "Dream" game will have a story or something.2013-07-16 02:48:00

Author:
Xtrahuman
Posts: 431

Wonder if the "Dream" game will have a story or something.

I'm pretty sure its about seeing your dreams or something, and TBH, Im kind of scared to see what I dream about ._.		2013-07-18 15:48:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

I think some people are expecting MM's new game to be to much like LBP tbh.

I'm wondering if it even will have a storymode. And even if it does. I get the feeling it won't have a premade character you play as in the same way as LittleSack from LBP... 1 idea could even be that it may even have multiple stories with different main characters you play as in every story. Anyways I just get the feeling the game will be much more different compered to LBP then some are thinking. zu		2013-07-18 16:13:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

I think some people are expecting MM's new game to be to much like LBP tbh.

I'm wondering if it even will have a storymode. And even if it does. I get the feeling it won't have a premade character you play as in the same way as LittleSack from LBP... 1 idea could even be that it may even have multiple stories with different main characters you play as in every story. Anyways I just get the feeling the game will be much more different compered to LBP then some are thinking. *mew

I was kind of thinking, maybe Media Molecule's new "game" will be F2P? Like, a downloadable construction set with no barrier to entry, but you could buy DLC like you can now. I know Sony is working on F2P games now...		2013-07-18 17:35:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

but you could buy DLC like you can now.

I'm kind of hoping for no DLC. I'd like it if you & others could build almost anything in-game without much limit.		2013-07-18 17:39:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

I'm kind of hoping for no DLC. I'd like it if you & others could build almost anything in-game without much limit.

You might hope for that, but you know it won't happen, right?		2013-07-18 18:02:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

I'm incredibly excited for this, but it's very hard to talk and speculate about it with so little news out there. i was really hoping there'd be more info shortly after the ps4 announcement, at least at e3, but i was disappointed to say the least that we didn't see anything.

tbh, i don't care whether there's gameplay at all in this. i'd be happy with a toolset to create with. i always felt that, whilst lbp's story mode is fun and helps you become acclimatised, much of it (collecting materials etc) feels like 'busywork' before you get down to the whole reason for buying it in the first place: creating, and sharing.

Hope for news at gamescom.		2013-07-18 18:15:00

Author:
rialrees
Posts: 1015

I'm incredibly excited for this, but it's very hard to talk and speculate about it with so little news out there. i was really hoping there'd be more info shortly after the ps4 announcement, at least at e3, but i was disappointed to say the least that we didn't see anything.

tbh, i don't care whether there's gameplay at all in this. i'd be happy with a toolset to create with. i always felt that, whilst lbp's story mode is fun and helps you become acclimatised, much of it (collecting materials etc) feels like 'busywork' before you get down to the whole reason for buying it in the first place: creating, and sharing.

Hope for news at gamescom.

Yeah, I'd say Gamescom is the soonest we'll know of it.

Of course, when that happens... will we rebrand LBPC or just cover further LBP titles? :O

Also, think anyone here might have already gone to a Game Jam? XD		2013-07-18 18:20:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Of course, when that happens... will we rebrand LBPC or just cover further LBP titles? :O

Interesting thought. I'd say lbpc is and always will be for lbp, but i'm sure someone will start up a site when the time comes


Also, think anyone here might have already gone to a Game Jam? XD

No idea on that one! We typically hear about it quite soon after the event though, so I'm sure we would have heard something by now? In the end, who knows? 		2013-07-18 18:31:00

Author:
rialrees
Posts: 1015

This game is exactly what I've been wanting to see. This will definitely be a PS4 seller for me, and It'll actually give me a reason to use my move controller.

I wonder how expansive this game will be. So far we know:
We can make characters and animate them.
We can make any object we want.
We will be able to share our creations with a system which is probably similar to LBP.


I really like racing games. I wonder if we'll be able to make racing games.

Also, the PS Move is definitely good for precise control, but I wonder if we'll have an alternative way using something like the Move Navigator or Dualshock 4 or maybe some in-game mechanic which will let us make exact adjustments to our creations. I could see using the PS Move controller could leave little bumps on surfaces we want flat.

Unfortunately, I could see people easily making and sharing inappropriate things in this game too. I wonder how they're going to stop that from happening. :/		2013-07-18 19:33:00

Author:
ConverseFox
Posts: 2333

Speaking of the sharing system, I really hope they simplify it somewhat. As cute as the little planets etc are, the searches etc are still evolving in LBP.

I would hope for a sort of gallery style sharing system. Where you can share objects and characters in a very simple layout - tick the categories, up come the results, maybe with thumbnails. Sharing actual interactive content would be a little trickier, but if we are able to share objects as the ps4 reveal hinted at, i sure hope they make it efficient!		2013-07-18 19:36:00

Author:
rialrees
Posts: 1015

It just struck me: after doing a paper craft game, the next game will be clay sculpting! 2013-07-19 00:54:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

This is basically an advanced version of the sculpting demo that came with my LBP Move Bundle.
Very intriging though, im not quite sure how the gameplay is supposed to work. It seems rather odd... simple motions for various animations? possibly context based? i guess i'll have to wait and see. Lets just hope this one isn't a DLC vending machine like LBP.		2013-07-24 00:52:00

Author:
VeGas Gh0st
Posts: 12

Lets just hope this one isn't a DLC vending machine like LBP.

It will be.		2013-07-24 00:56:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

It will be.

It won't be.

But seriously. we have no idea what it will be at this point.		2013-07-24 01:30:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

It won't be.

What makes you think Sony will look at all the DLC sales from LBP and then greenlight an ambitious game with a long term cost for keeping it up and running, and NOT have DLC?		2013-07-24 01:31:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Nobody really wants the game to have DLC. The only ok DLC is the type they add because they thought of useful new content to add to the game later down the line that they didn't think of at first. But considering this game allows you to make your own models & characters. What will we need DLC for? The worse thing that could happen is they limit the game with what we can make just so they can sell DLC. There is lots of cool things they don't put into LBP because of wanting not to hurt DLC sells and it sucks.

The fact that you want MM's new game to have DLC hurts the concept of a game that is actually better then LBP. We don't need MM's new game to be another LBP copy. It needs to be more & better. Which means not turning the game into a DLC cash cow for starters. *mew

... what's all this about us wanting DLC? We were talking about if it will have DLC. It will, whether or not you want it. Sony's coffers depends on it.		2013-07-24 01:45:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

You are all on a LBP site and DON'T want DLC?

There's a difference between withholding gameplay to release as DLC and supporting a community for years with fresh content. Why would you want to limit your assets and not accept future content?		2013-07-24 14:00:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Extra textures, more musical instruments maybe official licenced character reproductions. With DLC being part of modern gaming I'm sure we'll see something that gives them an extended stream of revenue.2013-07-24 14:25:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

I'd say picture import has a reasonable chance of making it in but you won't get music because of the legal mess involved.2013-07-24 15:14:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Bit sad but true. People would just upload music they didn't create themselves or have created for their projects. Not sure what better way around that problem would be. Even though I'm not sure how it's much different for people who create games on the PC. Shouldn't it just a matter of the person who steals is the one who gets into trouble? But guess it's not the same since it's on PS4... *mew

when you create games on the PC, even if you're using software such as RPG Maker, you aren't hosting your games on their servers. It's like copy-pasting a story into a Microsoft Word document. They can't sue Microsoft as it isn't on their servers, and they can't be held responsible for what people do with their creation tools.

However, LBP (and presumably this game) are run on Sony's servers. Therefore, everything they host is their responsibility, and they'd be liable.

That said, I think it's more a matter of them wanting to sell DLC preventing them from allowing you to upload songs instead of legal issues.		2013-07-24 15:34:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

While they may think of something that could be useful as DLC. "New tools" "New mini story modes?" and maybe even like Rabid-Coot said official licenced character reproductions... Which would have to be better then what the community could make somehow...

But stuff like "extra textures?" "musical instruments?" ...Are we all just gonna assume that MM won't allow us to import textures and music ETC into the game again? Possible & likely that's what will happen yes. But kinda sad to think they'll limit it for us just so they can sell more DLC again. I know it's a bit unlikely but I just like the idea where creating a game is the most important aspect and not for them to on purpose limit what we can do again. :/ *mew

I just really don't want this game to be basically a LBP MK2.

But the motive isn't so that they can limit you and sell you more DLC down the line. Their philosophy is to create a community of game creators and keep them interested by offering more for them to create with. You couldn't possible expect them to offer ALL the content at launch. I can't believe people still don't get this after being on a site like this all these years. Selling DLC for games like this isn't milking its audience, it's a prerequisite of Play/Create/Share. If Sony didn't support a game like this for years to come, there would be more people complaining than people smiling.		2013-07-25 09:41:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

I have two predictions I felt like posting:



We won't hear of any official announcements for this game until February of 2014, the game may come out later that year during November 2014.
I'm saying this because Mm's primary focus right now is Tearaway, and they likely want to promote that as much as they can. Dream seems like something that would be awkward to promote at the time.
This prediction is about what the game will be about overall.
- Fantasy themed, including creatures such as dragons.
- May contain some form of randomly generated environments.
- Creation utilizes Move controller, gameplay does not.
- Licensed music from artists featured in LBP, as well as new ones.		2013-08-09 07:48:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

My predictions:

1: Diverse themes with more to come in DLC
2: Fully 3D (goes without question)
3: Deeper logic with far more variables
4: Modular approach with animation studio, music studio and creature creation (think Spore)
5: Voxels as well as polygons for destructible environments
6: Story tree for more in depth creators (here you will link lighting, animations, cutscenes etc.)
7: Dynamic lighting and physics as well as 'to the metal' programming.
8: The ability to save your creation as a single entity (Full game not required for people to play)
9: More realistic asset packs for specific genres.
10: Complete access to all of PS4's features, such as rumble, Vita remote play and touchpad
11: Levels playable BEFORE they are fully downloaded
12: The ability to SELL your games on PSN but only when you are a proven creator!

In other words, when MS say that every X1 will be a dev kit they are referring to Project Spark and they know exactly why Sony bought MM and where the idea is going.		2013-08-09 13:17:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

1: Diverse themes with more to come in DLC
You're probably right about that one, they'll likely have a fantasy/medieval theme somewhere in there though.


10: Complete access to all of PS4's features, such as rumble, Vita remote play and touchpad
Sony wouldn't let Mm implement rumble control into LBP. So unless something changes, we probably won't get to see that as an option for creators in Dream.


12: The ability to SELL your games on PSN but only when you are a proven creator!
I personally don't like the idea of people selling their creations, but if people really can sell their work as an individual downloaded (separate from the game, like you said) that feature may actually turn into something interesting.
The thing that scares me a little about that is people stealing creations - it'd be like people publishing your level and taking your hearts, but this time they would be stealing real money.

I had a random thought, could the game be 'claymation' themed? LBP is craft-themed, and Tearaway is paper-themed, but if Mm is making a game where players sculpt their creations, the game may have a clay aesthetic.
If it doesn't they'll likely do realism or a cartoonish theme.
The only problem I see with realism is textures - players may be able to sculpt some fine 3D items, but to apply a realistic texture on it could be a bit of a problem. (The game could easily put something like a stone texture overlay on something, but what about fine details? Say the player makes a car, metal could be applied as a texture, but what about finer details on the texture like bolts, rust, scrapes, and other details? I suppose the game could support something like stickers for this.)

Alright, after I typed all that you see above, I re-watched the tech demo and I noticed a LOT of exciting stuff I didn't notice before.

http://i.imgur.com/JqyQqRy.jpg
I snapped a picture of the tree being sculpted by Move. Perhaps, to texture an object, the user must paint over it much like someone would paint a statue.

http://i.imgur.com/pL14N8x.jpg
Notice these objects. I think most of these were made by the art team for a specific purpose. Objects like the rocks, and architectural items seem like something that will be put in a level. In fact, some of these items may actually be in the environment scene that is later in the tech demo.

http://i.imgur.com/aYe8Y6b.jpg
More items. Notice the castle/ruin/fort-like object on the three screens at the bottom center of the image.

http://i.imgur.com/S2Q7Gio.jpg
A strange medieval scene is placed. This scene could be strictly for the tech demo though, and nothing like it may be found in the final game. Some of the assets may be reused though.

http://i.imgur.com/qcOQEH7.jpg
Notice the terrain in the back, those mountains are actually really well made. Something else is also here - are those modern buildings in the background (in front of the mountains, behind the arches), but ruined and destroyed?

http://i.imgur.com/xvrVwBn.jpg
As the camera pans up the tower (notice how well-made the tower is too), the lighting turns dim, going from orange to black. LBP2 and LBP1 + DLC has global time changes, but could Dream have dynamic day and night cycles of a sort?

Also notice how the whole place is near the coast of some mainland. Maybe the whole game takes place on an island, and each little area on it has a different theme, jumping from medieval to something else.

http://i.imgur.com/wi8XONz.jpg
This is where things got REALLY interesting, notice how the puppets feet connect with the ground, it's like you said GribbleGrunger, the animation stuff they used is like Spore, in how it works without much input without the user.
Another important detail - could this scene be using something beyond rasterized lighting? I'm no tech expert, but notice how the characters are lit, light is bouncing off surfaces and such. Also, that guitar! Notice how when the characters move, you can see reflections on the guitar. Cube maps don't work like that, unless the guitar itself were moving, but only the characters are moving, and they're casting reflections on the guitar itself!

http://i.imgur.com/jMT4IQP.jpg
Another image showing the lighting. Once again, I'm no tech expert, but could the scene be using path-tracing?
Take a look at this tweet I sent to @mmalex (Programmer for Media Molecule, also the man who presented Dream's tech demo on-stage.)
https://twitter.com/mmalex/status/263562898457108480


[Real-time ray tracing] is to some extent; primarily, for things like path tracing, I hope in next few years. Rasterisation will always have place [in games].

His tweet was a little confusing.
"[Real-time ray tracing] [B]is [being used] to some extent". It sounds like he's saying it actually is being used currently, whether he's talking about some other game, or Dream, or something else, I don't know. Or maybe I'm missing technical detail that I don't know of.

"[Real-time ray tracing] is [being used] to some extent; primarily, for things like path tracing, I hope in next few years."
In context, the first part I quoted, paired with ", I hope in next few years." makes it sound like Alex is hopeful the tech is present in future games, and that it is not in current games.

Here's a link to a Wikipedia article for path-tracing, which is what Alex was talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing


http://i.imgur.com/r7dYNTW.jpg

I decided to take everything Alex said at the tech-demo and transcribe it: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6tgJRRZurk)


Wow, David, please can I have a copy of that skin shader? But I mean seriously it's just amazing to be able to get that emotion in the eyes, it's really hard.

So hello! I'm Alex Evans from Media Molecule and um, my gloss is to give a little insight intro our creative process over the last few years at our studio, and, you know when we first heard about the Playstation 4 we began thinking what can we do to turn creative gaming and take it to the next level. 'Cause that's what Media Molecule was founded to do, it was to use this amazing device to bring the creativity of every Playstation user to the full, and creativity takes many forms these days. Whether, it's taking a picture, cosplaying as Kratos, or 3D printing a customized character. It's easier than ever to show off your skills and with the internet you can reach millions of people. So, creation is everywhere, but it can feel kind of fractured, and complicated, and so we thought, 'how can we cut through all the crap?' and we realized, there's a simple way of thinking about all of this. What we wanted to do was let you record your dreams.

Think about that for a second. 'Record your dreams.' You see, the Playstation 4 for us at Media Molecule should be the creative console. It's a place you go to be inspired. It's a place you go to experience other people's dreams or to make your own. It's the place you go to create, and the only question for us is 'how?'

When we looked at how people create digitally, especially in 3D, things just haven't changed in the last 5 or 10 years. As a graphics programmer - vertices, textures, UV mapping have been the bane of my life and the artists' I've worked with for many years. I call it, the Tyranny of the Polygon. And so we asked ourselves, 'how could Playstation 4 change this? How could the insane power output, only a next gen console deliver, how can we sweep away the techy mess? How could we redefine digital making and overcome the Tyranny of the Polygon?'

So we've done two years of research into this from motion capture to stereo-cameras, to advanced user-interfaces, touch-interfaces. Basically we tried everything, and it got more and more complicated, more and more space-age. It just did not feel like recording dreams at all, and then we discovered that the single most powerful, accurate and precise tool for 3D creation was right under our noses. It was the Move controller. Now, finally, at last, after a troubled relationship, we've completely fallen in love with this thing. Dear move controller, I'm sorry it's taken us so long to realize this but we're going to marry you with the power of the Playstation 4, we are going to revolutionize making. You're great.

So one of the first things we built with this was a sculpting tool, and we've been using it for a while now. Once we stop thinking in terms of memory budgets, schedules, pixels, we forget about the technology, and we just started doodling. Just sketching. Put that at the heart of our creative process, and a really lovely thing happened. We started having real fun making, collaboration, sketching, remaking, it doesn't matter where you start out because you can take a left turn at any time that inspiration strikes and goes somewhere even cooler. It's a free-form creative journey that I think is a little big like cloud watching except that you can reach in at any time and change and shape it to whatever's in your head.

Behind me, you can see a time lapse of one of our sculpts, playing back literally as it was made because we record every single move that you make and because it is such a quick and free-form thing, before we knew it at Media Molecule we had made hundreds of these things. Imagine this multiplied from our tiny staff to the thousands and millions of brilliant Playstation users online. Every single one of these was made entirely with the Move controller.

It's a kind of performance. You're able to put down your ideas as fast as you can think of them. It's this combination of the Playstation 4's power with the Move's unique accuracy which allows us to ditch all of the 2D fiddly camera controls and nasty user-interface and makes 3D sculpting easy for beginners and deep for advanced creators. And if you're like me, and haven't quite mastered sculpture yet then we're going to allow you to use the creativity of all of these people, to collage and create ever larger sets, game levels, stories, with the really simplest possible interface. Just hold your controller and click to assemble your dream. Of course, this isn't just about sculpture and collage. With Playstation 4, the creative console, we wanted to change making in every way, whether it's music, gaming, or storytelling, and the point is it's fast to create. What you're about to see was recorded live in one take. It's someone's dream brought to life with Playstation 4.		2013-08-09 19:26:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

WOW, warlord_evil, that's one incredible post! You say you're not technical but lose me immediately on some of that tech talk lol. The animations are what interests me more at the moment. We know it was done in ONE take and in REAL time, so how would they pull that off? At first I thought of waypoints for where the legs would move to but it is so random I discounted that. Then I considered a straight up puppeteer workaround but the button presses to achieve what we saw would make it really difficult. Then I thought of AI and potential 'orientation mapping' (I made that up ). You would then simply move a character where you wanted and the legs or arms would automatically work out how to animate. Notice how when he slides the guitarist across the screen, the legs are still firmly attached to the floor, and when he tilts the guitar, his torso tilts too, but once again the legs remain firmly attached to the floor ... almost as if you can set which will be a constant animation and which will be variable.

I'm with you on the claymation side of things too. The only only problem is how would you set accurate boundaries for different colours and textures within one creature/character? For instance, how would you attach a scarf or hat and make it look like clothing, instead of simply coloured portions of the same clay creation? Looking at what I said about the animation, perhaps you can designate 'zones' that are then completely isolated from the main body but follow the path of animation exactly, if you wish. A slight delay may enable you to create a scarf swishing perhaps? It also appears that the material they are using has some transparency to it (Is it called sub-service lighting? I can't remember)

All I know for certain is that it's going to be something very very special		2013-08-09 20:11:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Alrighty, I'm sorry Alex, but I've been watching your twitter feed for clues about this new game "Dream." (We're starving for news!)

Alex is a programmer for this unknown game, so the things he tweets could be about this game, or it could be about something else entirely.

There's a lot of technical programming jargon in them tweets, and I hardly understand the stuff. I did notice a few things however...

(Note: I'm not linking the tweets as they contain expletives (bad words!); so for the sake of LBPC's rules, they will not be posted here.)


stuck SSAO into a project for the first time in my life. feel dirty now, but I have to admit it's a net win for this case.

@marcosalviit's for a case where contact shadows give important 'gameplay' cues. hate the look still.

SSAO stands for screen and space ambient occlusion. It's a graphics trick where objects close together create shadows. It wasn't present in LBP1, but it was implemented in LBP2.

In this example, you can see it enabled and disabled in this image here:
http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/33/ssao1.jpg

"for a case where contact shadows give important 'gameplay' cues. hate the look still."
I guess it was implemented to help the player during gameplay. This could mean it helps the player notice objects in the environment (as the shading can help players visually see where objects are). If the game "Dream" is textureless or something, SSAO would immensely help the player navigate the environment.
Or, the "gameplay cues" could have a different meaning here, who knows?

"hate the look still."
A necessary evil.



@mmalex @paniq @marcosalvi is there a practical use for OIT? i can't think of one.

@bmcnett @mmalex @paniq rendering transparent stuff without worrying about compositing errors? also high quality foliage, hair, etc

@marcosalvi @mmalex @paniq ah, but at what cost. if you're paying that much for foliage or hair, you could do better by abandoning triangles

@bmcnett @mmalex @paniq you can switch to any geometric primitive that you want, you'd still want OIT

@marcosalvi @bmcnett @paniq exactly :-) no triangles here... at least in theory. #voxels #pain #neveragain

This is what OIT is, in-case you're wondering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order-independent_transparency

I don't really know what it is, so I can't explain it in simpler terms than Wikipedia does.

OIT is probably useful for rendering dense objects, such as hair and grass, like mentioned above. The other guy is saying that using OIT to render hair and grass will slow the game down. They say that you might as well not use triangles with OIT, as it would be too taxing on computers/consoles/the game. (Triangles/polygons is the most basic geometry commonly used in games).

None of this stuff is really relevant to "Dream," but it did lead to this:

"exactly :-) no triangles here... at least in theory. #voxels #pain #neveragain"
Voxels are basically a way to render objects. They are much different in comparison with traditional game graphics.
I'm not actually too familiar with voxels but this is the gist of them:

They are very good at rendering high detail objects. This means objects/meshes/things in the game can have a lot more detail than a traditional 3D model, because voxels are less taxing on computers.
Voxels are probably better suited for randomly generated environments, as saving detailed voxel information can require a lot of data, which is impractical.
Voxels are generally rendered as tiny cubes, which creates a very pixelated look for games that use them, however, recent games using voxels are using ways to still use voxels, but smooth them to get rid of the pixelated look.

This wikipedia article probably explains it a lot better than I: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel

This voxel information could also show that the objects created by players with the Move controller are saved as voxels. (Or maybe not).

------------------------------------------------------------

So what does this ALL mean? Here's a summary:

The game will likely include advanced SSAO shading, which means the game will look prettier with fancy shadows(in a way).
The game may use OIT, so if the game has dense areas with grass, or characters with thick hair, it will look pretty and not look weird on your screen.
The game may be using voxels (which I think is the biggest information here). This could mean that "Dream" utilizes randomly-generated elements, like new locations and objects.



Remember: I could be completely wrong about any of these things. Alex could be tweeting about something else entirely. These are all assumptions. :hero:		2013-12-14 20:18:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

So, in conclusion, we know nothing new

However, Spaff's christmas update says they'll hopefully be able to announce their new game next year so... hopefully they'll announce it next year! Between this, Uncharted 4, and Santa Monica's new game, it could be a HUGE E3.		2013-12-14 20:27:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

could this scene be using something beyond rasterized lighting? I'm no tech expert, but notice how the characters are lit, light is bouncing off surfaces and such. Also, that guitar! Notice how when the characters move, you can see reflections on the guitar. Cube maps don't work like that, unless the guitar itself were moving, but only the characters are moving, and they're casting reflections on the guitar itself!


It looks like they're using physically plausible lighting and brdf shading models, which is super cool in terms of realism over last generation. That means that lights have realistic falloff/soft shadows and shaders have realistic fresnel shading.

This, IMO is the biggest jump we’re seeing in the current consoles in terms of coming closer to photorealism. The only games that attempted those type of shading effects last generation (I believe) were Halo 3 (and it’s sequels) IIRC. That means that metals look like metals, plastics like plastic...etc.

The path tracing comment is interesting because as far as I know, path tracing is still too slow for realtime graphics….renderers like Octane & VrayRT are doing it, but it’s grainy until it has a few seconds to resolve. I’m assuming that mm is using something else for global illumination, though ray tracing is certainly doable for the reflections. I’m not a realtime guy so please take anything I say with a grain of salt

If you want to see realtime path tracing in action, check out the Octane demos on youtube to see how it’s done.



This voxel information could also show that the objects created by players with the Move controller are saved as voxels. (Or maybe not).


Voxels are 3D pixels described as a grid. They’re used to create arbitrary objects without any logical structure, such as a sculpted object or smoke/fire volumetrics.

I’m guessing this is how mm is storing the objects sculpted by the user…it’s similar to the way programs like ZBrush store objects.



SSAO stands for screen and space ambient occlusion. It's a graphics trick where objects close together create shadows. It wasn't present in LBP1, but it was implemented in LBP2.
I guess it was implemented to help the player during gameplay. This could mean it helps the player notice objects in the environment (as the shading can help players visually see where objects are). If the game "Dream" is textureless or something, SSAO would immensely help the player navigate the environment.
Or, the "gameplay cues" could have a different meaning here, who knows?


Ambient occlusion is probably best described as "self-shadowing", but literally it's a technique that describes areas where light is occluded. It's actually not used as much in visual effects anymore because it's not very realistic looking, but for games....sure.



The only problem I see with realism is textures - players may be able to sculpt some fine 3D items, but to apply a realistic texture on it could be a bit of a problem. (The game could easily put something like a stone texture overlay on something, but what about fine details? Say the player makes a car, metal could be applied as a texture, but what about finer details on the texture like bolts, rust, scrapes, and other details? I suppose the game could support something like stickers for this.)


Google vector displacement 		2013-12-14 22:48:00

Author:
Chazprime
Posts: 587

UPDATE!

A rumor just appeared saying Sony's E3 plans have been leaked. Some details about Mm's game are included.

The info is below, details about Mm are in the second bullet point.



Uncharted PS4 3 Minute Trailer showcasing ?In-engine? footage interspersed with gameplay segments. Visuals are supposedly unprecedented and set a benchmark for console graphics. Summer 2015 release date. It looks absolutely stellar. Features tropical setting and differing time periods with Nate/Francis.
Media Molecule?s new title will be a landmark title for Morpheus. 3D world building, beautiful, quirky visuals.Extremely creative and fun. Possibly related to the ?Entwined? trademark filed last week by SCE (not sure). Late 2015.
Gran Turismo 6 is coming to PS4 as 1080p 60FPS repackaged title in the vein of Gran Turismo 7: Prologue. stunning visuals, extra features (social connectivity, new tracks, dlc etc). Coming mid-late 2015.
God of War 4 teaser will be present ? will be CG with snippets of in-engine footage. A little early for reveal, but is designed to offset negativity surrounding canceled new IP and generate excitement ? also to partially offset CG announce of Gears of War at Microsoft presser. Late 2015. Date wont be announced.
Kill Strain trademark is related to Syphon Filter reboot for PS4. Sony Bend working on revamping the franchise. Stealth, beautiful visuals and a possible Winter 2014 title. Bend finally getting to join the big boys.
Wipeout is also making the transition to PS4. Source is unsure of who is developing it, but hints that it could be Sony London, Evolution, or Firesprite.
Quantic Dream has a trailer prepared ? unsure whether it is penciled in for Gamescom or E3. Sony will be watching Microsoft?s presser earlier in the day to gauge whether additional titles will need to be slotted in to dampen hype. Expect Dark Sorcerer- like visuals in real time. Off-topic, but still relevant ? they are close to deal to become a Worldwide Studios developer, along with Ready At Dawn.
Speaking of Ready At Dawn, The Order:1886 will get a stage demo. Big title for Fall 2014. Sony is expecting great things from said title ? franchise hopes rest on its performance.
Ninja Theory working on a PS4 exclusive ? possible Heavenly Sword sequel which was shelved a number of years ago. Quite far into development.
Sony London will be at E3. First AAA title in many years. 3rd person title. Gorgeous. They?re back with a bang
Guerrilla Games bringing their RPG to E3. Provocative setting ? very interesting. Insane visuals as usual. A good reaction to the title is expected. Will please the hardcore.
Sucker Punch busy at work on an inFAMOUS: Second Son DLC. Really cool. New powers. Possible new setting. E3 debut.
Sony Japan Studios debuting two, maybe even three titles. Project Beast ? spiritual successor to Demon Souls. The other is The Last Guardian. Retooled for PS4, possible Winter 2014 title. The Other title is shrouded in secrecy.
Evolution will give Driveclub some time in the limelight. It's shaping up to be incredible with jaw-dropping visuals. Demo release will be timed with the press conference.


Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110974264&postcount=1

Remember, this is a rumor and could be false.		2014-05-08 02:05:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Guerrilla Games making an RPG? That sounds interesting, and I hope it turns out well.2014-05-08 02:38:00

Author:
amoney1999
Posts: 1202

Guerrilla Games making an RPG? That sounds interesting, and I hope it turns out well.

Yeah, that is something that is true. We've known for a while now.

The rest, however, may be a rumor. Really hope it is, just because it ruins the surprise and fun of the conference.

Also, upset at new God of War instead of open world sci-fi RPG with platforming written by one of the BSG guys :/

And hope Ninja Theory isn't making Heavenly Sword 2. Please make a new game.

Also, MM not until late 2015? Lame.

Also, I wonder how Virtual Reality would transition well to User Created Content...

Also, please be false		2014-05-08 02:45:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Looks like a round up of every rumour thasts been out there and a bit of wild speculation.



Also, I wonder how Virtual Reality would transition well to User Created Content...


It might make the sculpting easier having it represented closer to your hands/eyes instead of on the tv.		2014-05-08 09:02:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Also, upset at new God of War instead of open world sci-fi RPG with platforming written by one of the BSG guys :/


I'd love good Sci Fi RPG, as long as it's not too sci-fi-y and not too RPG-y.......... so basically Fallout 4. 		2014-05-08 09:34:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Games that are not first person view automatically are more interesting then games that are first person view in my opinion.

And really only games out of those rumors that interested me is MM's new game. But I maybe have a tiny bit of interest in Project Beast & The Last Guardian... But not much for even those 2. Also the lack of any LBP or cartoon style games makes me want to believe/hope most of the rumor is fake.

PS: I couldn't care less if this spoils the E3 show a bit. imo there's no difference in learning something early or later.		2014-05-08 10:23:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Sony London will be at E3. First AAA title in many years. 3rd person title. Gorgeous. They’re back with a bang


And if that happens then the PS4 will because the new My Little Pony...
And then we are ALL doomed till the end.

Just Kidding, Well at least the PS4 is going have more games, Thank you.		2014-05-08 20:35:00

Author:
Tikaki-MooMoo
Posts: 524

I tried to look away, I'm just really glad there isn't a lot of details. The last thing I need is some possible leaked source that may or may not have ruined what could have been an amazing surprise and excitement that we can all share together at E3.

I don't know about you guys, but I love speculating, its the fun part even if its true or not since its like we are sharing excitement regarding a passion we all love. It's hard for me to do the same this year. I know leaks happen every year, but I just feel like this year hit me personally the hardest.

I really hope some of this stuff is fake or not everything (again if it's true) was posted here, or else it won't be the same as E3 last year for me.

-hyper		2014-05-08 22:13:00

Author:
hyperdude95
Posts: 1793

While the E3 rumor could be false, Sony did trademark for two game titles in April: Entwined and KILL STRAIN.

KILL STRAIN sounds like a horror/zombie game.

Mm's game could very well be called Entwined.
First thing Entwined made me think of was plant life/forest magic. But it really sounds like it's fantasy stories entwined with each other, or perhaps there's worlds entwined, like stories and characters from different worlds come together for some reason.
I imagine the story would have something to do with "worlds colliding" or something, quirky heroes and villains and characters coming together in a clash of universes. As a result their fantasy cultures sorta merge. It also gives to the theme of creativity, as players will give their own pieces to this new world.

A while back on a post about Mm. A photo was taken in their studio where you could sorta see what looked like a dragon on the screen. This could tie-in to the fantasy theme. Then again, the photo was taken about 2-4 months before Mm's 2013 tech demo reveal and therefor the content in it could be something that was created early before the game was beginning to iron out.


http://www.mediamolecule.com/images/uploads/Screen_Shot_2012-12-06_at_14.11_.31_.png
On the computer screen at the back, to the right. Sorta looks like a dragon, could be nothing though.
Source: http://www.mediamolecule.com/blog/article/big_things_from_little_beginnings/


I'm probably over-analyzing again.		2014-05-08 23:25:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

No, you are not over analyzing. MM likes being closer to crafts, handmade stuff, the fun... more down to earth things? Their style is to make something that looks kinda handmade or atleast made out of 'real' materials.

If MM is working with game that has dragons, knights, and so on, Entwined makes a good name, especially if it's very centered around storytelling! MM probably noticed many LBP creators want to tell a story too, and while possible, having better tools/a game better suited to do that while still keeping the usual MM charm, would be nice.


Games that are not first person view automatically are more interesting then games that are first person view in my opinion.
Maybe is because modern video game has first person still being the same as old DOOM. Your view = camera mounted in chest of invisible character. It's no wonder third person games get more into the action because you're not limited to ancient game mechanic + camera is more free to pan and allow for dramatic/cinema-like picture.

But it is probably a big undertaking making the first person camera become more than making you feel like a robot... without making you sick. People get sick just from view bob. Hmm. I guess it will take the new 3d oculus rift for first person to make sense in 2014. Or maybe it'll make people feel even more like robots... heh.

Getting back on point, not very interested in PS4 lineup yet, I'll hold my breath a while and see what happens. If and when there is new LBP/MNR, I will probably be more content. Right now, the big three, sony included are putting focus on games that aren't my kinda thing, but they'll come eventually.		2014-05-09 01:29:00

Author:
ll_ye
Posts: 236

But it is probably a big undertaking making the first person camera become more than making you feel like a robot... without making you sick. People get sick just from view bob. Hmm. I guess it will take the new 3d oculus rift for first person to make sense in 2014. Or maybe it'll make people feel even more like robots... heh.


I'm a character driven person and enjoy seeing my characters, I don't want to be only stuck inside their head for most of the game, that isn't fun to me whatsoever for most games... Also I hate VR type games because they are exactly the type of first-person camera view and not character driven game that I personally dislike, I'd sooner quit video games in general then play games in a world where all videos games changed over to first person view VR. There is room for such games in this world I'd agree of course, but it shouldn't be the most common way to play... ever.

Anyways yeah I hope E3 will have a lot more then this rumored list, It's all stuff that a common gamer could had guessed by ourselves, and for me personally there's barely anything I'd want. however I' do say that i would be more happy to find out ahead of time to know that I won't care for most of the game reveals then I would be finding out that fact on the day of E3 ... the waiting and hoping they'll show games i'd want... only to find out afterwards when it's over there isn't much... less time wasted and less disappointment to find out the list ahead time in that case in my opinion.

I know it very likely won't happen this year but I hope there will be a bring back of the Crash series. And a new Ratchet game. and hopefully some new unexpected adventure series.

Also some more hints that this rumor may be fake or missing some stuff. There is nothing for the new Batman game that we know is coming out late this year. Also no LBP related stuff which would be strange.

PS: But Nintendo might surprise me this year and put out much more games I'd personally want... good thing I have a Wii U... Hopefully they have a nice Wii U lineup and not just mainly 3DS games again.		2014-05-09 08:14:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

I'm a character driven person and enjoy seeing my characters, I don't want to be only stuck inside their head for most of the game, that isn't fun to me whatsoever for most games.

This is something that would be true, except for the fact that you are supposed to make the character represent you. In games like Skyrim that is an essential part of the experience.		2014-05-09 09:53:00

Author:
FreeAim
Posts: 2462

This is something that would be true, except for the fact that you are supposed to make the character represent you. In games like Skyrim that is an essential part of the experience.

Except for games where the character is not a persona of you AKA games like Mario. And even when it is a custom persona type game I still want to see my persona, there's a reason why i don't like games like Skyrim.

Even in customizing games it's flat minded to say the character should represent you, not everybody plays that way. When I make a character I don't make the character to be like me rarely ever, i even often pick female characters. Another example is when your dress your Sackdoll in a Sly Cooper costume does that represent you? No, however it does represent your interests, but that's about it. Typically when I play a game I do it just the same way as I watch a cartoon, I don't want to play as me, I want to play as characters who are not me.

I know I over explained things a bit there, but I want my point to be obvious enough that I won't have to come back and keep talking about it. *mew		2014-05-09 10:17:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

http://www.mediamolecule.com/images/uploads/Screen_Shot_2012-12-06_at_14.11_.31_.png
Check out those Aeron chairs. There's an easy $5000 worth of chairs in that photo.

Also, I'm guessing that's a PS3 dev kit under the nearest desk given its dimensions.		2014-05-09 11:55:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

Even in customizing games it's flat minded to say the character should represent you, not everybody plays that way. When I make a character I don't make the character to be like me rarely ever, i even often pick female characters.

I actually thought you were a female. :blush:

I sometimes create a character that represents me, and sometimes I don't. In Skyrim, my character looked nothing like me, but he was the well meaning type...... at least to begin with. But the savages of war took its toll, more scars appeared (Physical and mental), and a darkness entered my character. Whilst he didn't go completely evil, he was willing to do what was necessarry in order to progress. In a weird kinda way, he was like Walter White. 		2014-05-09 13:22:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Fortunately VR isn't restricted to first-person. Although first-person seems like the best option for it, there are games and tech-demos for VR that don't strictly use first-person. (There's not many though.)

Here's a gameplay test for third-person VR. It looks clunky, but hopefully VR games master it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj02biz9eKA

Gameplay with a eagle-eye view. With VR, the player can look at the environment from above and peer around, and look closer at things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvkgAf3TSEs

If the rumor is true, then I hope Morpheus is an option and not a requirement.



By the way, Skyrim can be played in third-person, although it's a bit clunkier than first-person and makes some things in the game like picking up objects very difficult.		2014-05-09 21:29:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Also, can't see MM's next title being focused on VR. They ARE a pretty big money maker, considering all the DLC potential.

Also, that schedule seems TOO jam packed. Don't think they could fit it all into a single presentation and still have time for 3rd parties, which are absent from that list, and which Sony needs to play nice with by giving them space to broadcast their project.

So yeah, lack of 3rd parties on that list makes me cautious about its authenticity.		2014-05-09 22:01:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

From what we've seen so far, I'm pretty sure ' Entwined ', if that's what its called, is only going to SUPPORT Morpheus. I recall that before in an article, Media Molecule stated they wanted to implement a way you could sculpt with the dualshock, and play your levels with it.

It should be assumed they're not forcing you to wear the VR, but the game is going to be the first release to support it, maybe? If so, it'd be a nice touch for FPS type levels in this game, yeah? If creation allows for something so complex.		2014-05-10 15:53:00

Author:
Nitranon77
Posts: 127

I don't know what to think about Entwined. It doesn't sound as marketable as LBP, or as original as Tearaway. :/2014-05-11 19:19:00

Author:
Stampy
Posts: 86

I don't know what to think about Entwined. It doesn't sound as marketable as LBP, or as original as Tearaway. :/

Lets see here... We know almost nothing about the game, yet says it doesn't sound as marketable as LBP. We have no idea what the final game will look like, what it'll really be about... Or even if it'll have any form of mascot character or a story-mode in general, yet says it doesn't seem as original as Tearaway.

Alright sounds reasonable and not jumping the gun whatsoever, 'CoughSarcasmCough'		2014-05-11 19:32:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Cough all you like , but I am talking about the name itself regardless of any game context. And the name is not catchy. I don't see why I would need to know anything about the game to make an opinion of the name... I am just talking about whether the name is easy to pronounce, how it sounds when you pronounce it, what is the meaning behind the word, is it memorable... And stuff like that which makes marketers have wet dreams....2014-05-11 20:00:00

Author:
Stampy
Posts: 86

Cough all you like , but I am talking about the name itself regardless of any game context. And the name is not catchy. I don't see why I would need to know anything about the game to make an opinion of the name... I am just talking about whether the name is easy to pronounce, how it sounds when you pronounce it, what is the meaning behind the word, is it memorable... And stuff like that which makes marketers have wet dreams....


Hey, don't judge a book by it's cover.. and you don't even know what the cover looks like yet.. only the name.. and we aren't even 100% sure that's the title of MM's next game.. it's just an assumption based on the list of game titles that may or may not be legit.		2014-05-12 03:55:00

Author:
ConverseFox
Posts: 2333

Hey, don't judge a book by it's cover.. and you don't even know what the cover looks like yet.. only the name.. and we aren't even 100% sure that's the title of MM's next game.. it's just an assumption based on the list of game titles that may or may not be legit.

I am not judging book by its covers. I don't even know what the game is about. I am just commenting on the title for what it is (even if it is not a new MMs game), I am just saying it's not as catchy as LBP, nothing more.

But if that is the title of their next game, let's make some further assumptions.




Mm's game could very well be called Entwined.
First thing Entwined made me think of was plant life/forest magic. But it really sounds like it's fantasy stories entwined with each other, or perhaps there's worlds entwined, like stories and characters from different worlds come together for some reason.

I imagine the story would have something to do with "worlds colliding" or something, quirky heroes and villains and characters coming together in a clash of universes. As a result their fantasy cultures sorta merge. It also gives to the theme of creativity, as players will give their own pieces to this new world.


The story could very well be in similar style as to what you presented, but names of MMs games are always nuanced, so I would guess that it would also hint at the importance of collaboration. They mentioned in their talk how they will allow everyone to use the sculpted objects. I am expecting that their next game will have the biggest evolution in the sharing (collaboration) part. And this rumoured name could also signify the connection we will have with other players and creators. The name LBP was also present in the way how the game based its main hud. Each creator was a planet, but a planet signifies something lonely.

What if this game will now have vines which will represent a level/game. e.g. numerous vines are wrapping around a level, representing all the people who contributed to the level, and in one way or another they are all connected (sculptors, musicians, voice actors, directors, play testers, remakers).

What also pushes this idea of a collaborative nature of the game is also this picture. The title “Together we can make our Dreams” is maybe referring to the creators and players alike as they will be even more connected into one community as an entwined whole.

The ball beneath the letter A of the word "Dreams" also demonstrates how from one creator comes only one string which connects to this bigger sum, but this is only one project...

48120		2014-05-12 13:09:00

Author:
Stampy
Posts: 86

Vines? In my mind it would more likely be yarn of some sort. Well, a less terrifying variant I suppose... I dunno, as I mentioned in my earlier post, MM seem to be big on the whole crafts thing...

But that collaborative development being displayed visually does sound like a pretty cool idea.		2014-05-12 16:09:00

Author:
ll_ye
Posts: 236

F
It should be assumed they're not forcing you to wear the VR, but the game is going to be the first release to support it, maybe? If so, it'd be a nice touch for FPS type levels in this game, yeah? If creation allows for something so complex.

Since they are taking the 3D UGC direction with their game, I would say it's almost a sure thing they will have both fps and 3rd person view. And all kind of of sparkly camera options.


The animations are what interests me more at the moment. We know it was done in ONE take and in REAL time, so how would they pull that off? At first I thought of waypoints for where the legs would move to but it is so random I discounted that. Then I considered a straight up puppeteer workaround but the button presses to achieve what we saw would make it really difficult. Then I thought of AI and potential 'orientation mapping' (I made that up ). You would then simply move a character where you wanted and the legs or arms would automatically work out how to animate. Notice how when he slides the guitarist across the screen, the legs are still firmly attached to the floor, and when he tilts the guitar, his torso tilts too, but once again the legs remain firmly attached to the floor ... almost as if you can set which will be a constant animation and which will be variable.


Here is my understanding how the implementation of the animation works in the game (speculation territory):

1. legs are separate entities which you attach to the body and give them leg physics and define their behaviour in detail, (for example, how many steps legs take to cover 1 meter of movement, range of motion, how wide they can be (min max values), etc...), and define their joints. Then they just procedurally move, animate and adjust accordingly to the body orientation. The leg probably also tie body to the floor not allowing it to float. Probably adjustable on/off option.

2. for arms you also attach them to the body (ala bolts) define their joints (range of movement for each joint – we see that the range of movement for elbow was set as pretty low), define elasticity value (ala strings). And maybe program them for triger inputs. Like when he takes the guitar, the mechanics behind it were probably: move towards the specified object as much as your elasticity allows. For example, if he was not close to the guitar, and the trigger was pressed the character would probably just be doing zombie like posture. Same as the blue haired girl's hands are raised to the ceiling with a button press.

3. the body is pretty simple (at least the old man's body, and of course the body does not even have to be a humans body), it's just a 1 to 1 representation of Move positioning; it rotates with Move and just basically follows it in any way possible. But where the magic comes are all the other “attachments” (legs, arms, legs). The more complicated part, which I am trying to understand are the blue haired girl and piano player body movements. The girl has this subtle hip movements, which is not strict 1:1 representation of the body movement (Move). The piano girl also has hip movement (although more pronounced), and fabric movement which covers her legs. I think the deal here is that although we see both bodies as a one whole, in fact the bodies of both girls have defined joints. For the blue haired girl, the main 1:1 body are her chests, the lower part of her skirts is the separate entity with minimal joint range and set to just follow the main body (hence the illusion of subtle swirl of the skirt). The point is that he is not moving the Move to represent her hip movement, but the hip movement is just coincidental to the upper body's 1:1 movement, since the character was rigged like that. The piano girl is using probably the same technique but with more defined joints, for the illusion of more complex fabric movement. Even though her legs are not visible, at one point in the end of the video you can see that she actually has two legs. So the leg physics are applied to the legs, and the dress is using the same principle as the blue haired girl's skirt, but only this time the dress is “attached” to the legs and to her body (multiple attachements). That is one complicated possibility, but the more I think about it, it looks too complicated to define so many joints to the skirt. Another solution: maybe you can just place the cloth physics on some objects (or parts of objects). If that is the case, it will be also supper easy to simulate moustaches and all kinds of interesting emotions in the face.

4. Head: seperate object attached to the body. Defined range of motion (so the characters head won't turn 180, although that will also be possible if you want), and the setting turn to/look at. At the beginin they both head setting “look at guy/girl object”, then at one point they both activated with a button press setting “look at camera”, and with another button press another setting “look at object guitar”. At the intense guitar playing moment, another setting was activate “look at floor”.

5. The guitar in hands: First the easy stuff. Trigger is set for the left hand positioning with 0 to 100% strength range. Full trigger press, hand is up in the air, middle press hand is somewhat raised with the guitar which is pinned to the left hand. When 100% strength press, the head is probably rigged to override anything else and to look at the ceiling or tip of the guitar. Movement on the left hand on the guitar itself is also a button press (the hand goes slightly up, button press, slightly down, button press). I would guess the whole main object can be rigged to have different button functions when interacting with different objects.

6. The drum player: lol, this one was poorly made. I have no idea why they didn't opt for two Moves, with 1:1 movement given for each arm.		2014-05-12 18:57:00

Author:
Stampy
Posts: 86

Let's hope the awesome camera from Tearaway makes it into "Entwined."2014-05-12 19:08:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

I dunno if Entwined rolls off the tongue as easily as LittlebigPlanet.

But whatever.

Hopefully they formally announce it at E3.

And see about that VR rumor. I don't know how well it's work in a level/ game maker, but still.		2014-05-15 22:12:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Maybe Entwined is Guerillas rumoured RPG or something else like wonderbook crap.2014-05-15 22:43:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

This new game which will allow us to create 3D worlds will take this forum to a whole other level, that's for **** sure. Maybe we'll see upcoming Sony press conference presentations made with this new game as well, that'd be fun.2014-05-16 13:51:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

This new game which will allow us to create 3D worlds will take this forum to a whole other level, that's for **** sure. Maybe we'll see upcoming Sony press conference presentations made with this new game as well, that'd be fun.

That does remind me of the E3 where they made a level in LBP in order to get through the boring sales numbers and other stuff like PS3 going to South America. It would be cool if they do something like that with this game in order to make that portion more interesting as well as hype up this game.		2014-05-16 16:24:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Anyone think they'll have a game jam where they invite top LBP/Tearaway creators secretly to Mm towers to try out the new game and build stuff they can show off?2014-05-16 18:10:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

Anyone think they'll have a game jam where they invite top LBP/Tearaway creators secretly to Mm towers to try out the new game and build stuff they can show off?

That would be cool. And likely, I'd say.

Though I thought Tearaway was just a character customizer? Doesn't seem like that's enough to be invited to a Game Jam I think.		2014-05-16 18:24:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Entwined trophy list has appeared http://www.exophase.com/game/entwined/trophies/2014-06-09 13:14:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Looks to me like it's something completely different2014-06-09 13:52:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Sounds more like something from thatgamecompany.

Although I guess their three-game exclusivity contract is done. Maybe it's the second game in Giant Sparrow's (Unfinished Swan devs) three-game exclusivity deal with Sony? They do have an unnanounced game in the works that is confirmed to not be a sequel to the Unfinished Swan. Maaybe Studio Japan and/or Santa Monica's involved? Hopefully we'll get more details at tonight's conference... e.e		2014-06-09 16:37:00

Author:
Dragonvarsity
Posts: 5208

I think there are images from their new game here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V_faVPTRUUg		2014-07-21 18:34:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnqFdSa5p7w

A competitor appears.		2014-11-25 09:48:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Here's a link to new information. (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=94262-Dreams-Mm-s-New-Game)2015-07-27 16:08:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

I like how I made this thread two years too early.2015-07-27 16:09:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882


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