Archive: 26 posts

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So would it actually be fun and easy in create like 2.5D? I look at various ideas and games to see if it really will be an effective step up for the next gen LBP. First Game to look at: LBPK. LBPK Was the debut to 3D in LBP. Create mode in this one took time to get used too, and i havent even made a level for LBPK yet. But it was fun. It is hard to look at LBPK though because its a racing game. Next Game: The Halo Series. Microsofts Halo has a special mode called Forge. its a map editor, and the games come with templates. The controls were simple and it was easy to create a fun map in the game. Next Game: Spore: Galactic Adventures. When you create a "mission" You start off with a blank slate, there you can add the creatures, buildings, and vehicles you made in game. You could even edit terrain and change the color of the ground and all that. It was very easy to create a level in that game. So, IS 3D GOOD FOR LBP? YES! And i cant wait to see the next LBP Game we get from Sumo Digital.

2013-05-01 20:58:00 Author: Seant1228 Posts: 348

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Is this thread in the right section? No. Edit: Try the General Gaming section: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-General-Gaming

2013-05-01 21:02:00 Author: ConverseFox Posts: 2333

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Moved to [LBP2]Everything Else Big Planet.

2013-05-01 21:13:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Moved to [LBP2]Everything Else Big Planet. Sorry, I didnt know where to place it >.<

2013-05-01 21:38:00 Author: Seant1228 Posts: 348

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It's a good question. Part of LBP's charm is that it is in 2.5D. But in all honesty, what more could they add to it in LBP3 if they continue to stick with 2.5D?. The problem with going to 3D is trying to be sure that they avoid the trap of making the gameplay just feel like a generic 3rd person platformer.

2013-05-01 21:47:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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It's a good question. Part of LBP's charm is that it is in 2.5D. But in all honesty, what more could they add to it in LBP3 if they continue to stick with 2.5D?. The problem with going to 3D is trying to be sure that they avoid the trap of making the gameplay just feel like a generic 3rd person platformer. You are right, And in my opinion, LBP 2 felt like i was buying a standalone DLC. and it wouldnt feel right in my opinion to make another 2.5D. But, Im sure they can figure something out in the generic thing, they could also just have a toggle for 2.5D to 3D. which would make for some very interesting levels. Plus, LBP 1 did feel like super mario brothers, so i wouldnt be suprised if it was a little generic going to 3D.

2013-05-01 22:01:00 Author: Seant1228 Posts: 348

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Maybe there should be: 4 layers for 4 players.

2013-05-01 22:31:00 Author: L1N3R1D3R Posts: 13447

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Maybe there should be: 4 layers for 4 players. Thats really just adding 1 new simple thing, i dont want to feel like im buying a standalone expansion for LBP. i want a new game, new engine, not just a bunch of new features... I want something thats purely different from LBP 1 And 2.

2013-05-01 22:42:00 Author: Seant1228 Posts: 348

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LBP 2 felt like i was buying a standalone DLC. This is probably because it was initially designed as DLC... the "arcade" kit if I remember right. Anyway, the question is... if LBP was 3D, would it still be LBP? Probably not... All LBP needs in terms of geometric space is a ratio of one playable layer per player, and a background / foreground scenery editor to make it look pretty. That and the return of the ice hazard... yup... I know you're watching Mm... haven't forgotten it. I want something thats purely different from LBP 1 And 2. Play a different game then? ------------------------------------------ Also, as a closing thought... look at what my friend Evret achieved: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klU1t_6PhPA There are already multiple ways to make 3D levels, your imagination is the limit.

2013-05-01 23:17:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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Play a different game then? There are already multiple ways to make 3D levels, your imagination is the limit. No, I just want a fresh new LBP, maybe a new art style, stuff like that. thats what i meant. plus, 3D in LBP 2 is really limited in my opinion. but, Evret did a really cool level there. tell him he did a great job and like i said, it wouldnt really be that bad if there was a 2.5D to 3D toggle. It would keep classic LBP platforming levels alive. and plus, if they just make an lbp 2 with even more features and next gen graphics, it feels like im buying a standalone add on again... and ive seen a few games where its just a port or something with like 4 new features... :/ and its really the same game.

2013-05-02 00:15:00 Author: Seant1228 Posts: 348

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You're not viewing things from a technical standpoint. LBP works because it doesn't make level creators have to deal with LODing, draw distance, collision detection for both objects, cameras and players, or advanced level design (space orientation being key here). Also, more content can be added using a streamline 2D perspective(and this is very important, since all created levels are meant to be shared, and loading times need to be kept at a minimum), and can be presented in a more aesthetically pleasing manner. The best they can do, without perturbing the established paradigm, is implementing better mechanics for making top down levels (more layers and custom depth, assuring sackboy can smoothly transition from one layer to another ) There are a lot of ways they can improve LBP, without implementing free 3D space: -New Logic (I could go on forever about what's missing from the logic set) -More mechanics -Bigger Levels -Dynamic data transfer from level to level -A better level promoting system -More customization options for sackboy, materials, mechanics, pod, etc. -A full 3D object creator -Foreground / background tools and customization And so on... Honestly, in my opinion, if LBP would go all out and become 3D with free-camera, it could ruin it. I might be wrong, but I sure as heck won't start building levels for it. It would take too many hours and too much work.

2013-08-16 20:56:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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I think Alex-Raven is right here. 3D was not demonstrated too well in karting (it felt like a really awkward blender which I suppose is actually better than any other 3D game editor I've used (spore galactic adventures was HORRIBLE)). The only thing that I would feel great with is if they added 3D corner editing and less restrictions on the camera. I feel like that would be enough for 3D levels without having to compromise anything (the physics would have to be worked out but I think it would be fine if they treated layers like walls or ignored certain parts of the physics. I wouldn't really need 3D physics in that sense.

2013-08-17 04:07:00 Author: koltonaugust Posts: 1382

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[QUOTENew Logic (I could go on forever about what's missing from the logic set)][QUOTE] What new logic? Logic for math?

2013-08-17 23:13:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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[QUOTENew Logic (I could go on forever about what's missing from the logic set)][QUOTE] What new logic? Logic for math? Don't get me started... For one, it would be useful to have some memory cells, not to mention proper analog signal, but I can dream, can I ?

2013-08-17 23:20:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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I really don't get this obsession some have where they feel unless a company completely reinvents a game from head to toe a sequel isn?t worth it to them. Other game series like Mario/Sonic/SlyCooper/ Ratchet&Clank often have many games in a row that have very similar engines & features to the last title in the series. And I always find them fun to play still as many others do. Also there?s the fact if they change a game in a series to much you can?t even call it the same game anymore at all really. Lots of game companies have alienated their fans this way. But at the end of the day my point is long as a sequel is well made and fun. It is indeed worth it. And doesn?t need to be completely different from the last game in order to be so imo. *mew

2013-08-17 23:29:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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So would it actually be fun and easy in create like 2.5D? I look at various ideas and games to see if it really will be an effective step up for the next gen LBP. First Game to look at: LBPK. LBPK Was the debut to 3D in LBP. Create mode in this one took time to get used too, and i havent even made a level for LBPK yet. But it was fun. It is hard to look at LBPK though because its a racing game. Next Game: The Halo Series. Microsofts Halo has a special mode called Forge. its a map editor, and the games come with templates. The controls were simple and it was easy to create a fun map in the game. Next Game: Spore: Galactic Adventures. When you create a "mission" You start off with a blank slate, there you can add the creatures, buildings, and vehicles you made in game. You could even edit terrain and change the color of the ground and all that. It was very easy to create a level in that game. So, IS 3D GOOD FOR LBP? YES! And i cant wait to see the next LBP Game we get from Sumo Digital. I personally love 3D, but I still think there are tons of creative possibilities to be had with the 2.5D. Just think of how much more awesome levels would be if we had twice as much thermo or a much needed "Hud" layer, better animations. better graphics, better effects--theres always things they could add( Save system anyone?). There are several issues that could be had with converting LBP to 3D, and the main issue would probably be the learning curve. 3D creating means you have to control the obstructions coming from all directions and heights( given that the vertical element would naturally have to be added to the game.) I dont think logic would be much more complicated, although I would be curious how path finding would be handled for sackbots. I also cringe at he possibility creating cutscenes will become an overly complicated, unless this was extremely polished. I dont create platformers, so being able to create a story is very important to me. I also would want just as much customization as LBP2, so I could create any genre of games and not have a ocean of 3D mario like platformers--which would probably be inevitable anyway. I dont think a 3D game creator is bad, but isnt this why MM is making thier own 3D creator? That looks leagues better than a 3D LBP would be, and this also allows LBP to keep its 2.5D charms without having to risk losing what makes LIttlebigplanet special in the first place.

2013-08-18 15:00:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I personally love 3D, but I still think there are tons of creative possibilities to be had with the 2.5D. Just think of how much more awesome levels would be if we had twice as much thermo or a much needed "Hud" layer, better animations. better graphics, better effects--theres always things they could add( Save system anyone?). There are several issues that could be had with converting LBP to 3D, and the main issue would probably be the learning curve. 3D creating means you have to control the obstructions coming from all directions and heights( given that the vertical element would naturally have to be added to the game.) I dont think logic would be much more complicated, although I would be curious how path finding would be handled for sackbots. I also cringe at he possibility creating cutscenes will become an overly complicated, unless this was extremely polished. I dont create platformers, so being able to create a story is very important to me. I also would want just as much customization as LBP2, so I could create any genre of games and not have a ocean of 3D mario like platformers--which would probably be inevitable anyway. I dont think a 3D game creator is bad, but isnt this why MM is making thier own 3D creator? That looks leagues better than a 3D LBP would be, and this also allows LBP to keep its 2.5D charms without having to risk losing what makes LIttlebigplanet special in the first place. There's also the argument of bringing past creations along for the ride (the same way we switched from LBP to LBP2). I dread to think how veteran creators would feel, if they would have to abandon everything they did, not to mention how drastically the communities would be split by such a move.

2013-08-21 11:39:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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That's a good point Alex-Raven but that makes me wonder. Will they make levels backwards compatible for LBP3? I mean LBP1 and LBP2 made sense because they were at least on the same system, but LBP3 would probably be on the PS4. Also I feel this argument would die down over time. Just look at how many people still actively play LBP1 compared to LBP2.

2013-08-21 19:35:00 Author: koltonaugust Posts: 1382

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That's a good point Alex-Raven but that makes me wonder. Will they make levels backwards compatible for LBP3? I mean LBP1 and LBP2 made sense because they were at least on the same system, but LBP3 would probably be on the PS4. Also I feel this argument would die down over time. Just look at how many people still actively play LBP1 compared to LBP2. True, but it's just something that people wonder and give their concerns about. But hey! look on the bright side, LBP Hub is comming

2013-08-21 20:08:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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There's also the argument of bringing past creations along for the ride (the same way we switched from LBP to LBP2). I dread to think how veteran creators would feel, if they would have to abandon everything they did, not to mention how drastically the communities would be split by such a move. I would probably be among that group that would be severely disappointed if not backwards compatible. Maybe if they kept the 2.5 gameplay, but allowed 3d gameplay as well..something like Mario galaxy. But such a move would require expert programming to make accessible to the casual crowd. And I dont know, the idea is kinda wierd lol That's a good point Alex-Raven but that makes me wonder. Will they make levels backwards compatible for LBP3? I mean LBP1 and LBP2 made sense because they were at least on the same system, but LBP3 would probably be on the PS4. Also I feel this argument would die down over time. Just look at how many people still actively play LBP1 compared to LBP2. I think its possible to make things backwards compatible. The PS4 isnt as big of a jump as PS2 to PS3. Console gaming upgrades are growing similar to computer upgrades where they will just get more ram, better CPU and more features. If anything LBP3 would make all the textures and graphics better without harming the levels objects and programming.

2013-08-21 22:35:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I wouldn't care if it was 3D. As long as we could choose wether to build on the 2.5D or 3D models. Even if they added a new set (one normal layer and wafer thin layer) at the front and back too allow more building possibilities for gameplay.

2013-08-21 23:39:00 Author: Shooter0898 Posts: 996

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There are a lot of ways they can improve LBP, without implementing free 3D space: -New Logic (I could go on forever about what's missing from the logic set) -More mechanics -Bigger Levels -Dynamic data transfer from level to level -A better level promoting system -More customization options for sackboy, materials, mechanics, pod, etc. -A full 3D object creator -Foreground / background tools and customization And so on... Media Molecule did showcase this 3D sculpting tool with the move for the PS4. Who knows? Maybe they'll implement that?

2013-08-22 03:27:00 Author: chick8ed Posts: 19

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Long post ahead! :3 Personally I see no reason there shouldn't be a LBP3, LBP2 still has so much that can be improved upon. However, I think going from 2.5D to 3D would not be a good move, the 2.5D world is such a fundamental part of LBP that I think changing it would make for too different a game to really call it LBP anymore. Not that a 3D LBP-esque game would be a bad idea, but I don't think it should have any connection to the current LBPs. As for what I would like to see in a (non-3D) LBP3. Ground up rebuild of the level editor interface, that's not to say change it entirely, it would need to be kept similar enough to stay intuitive. There is so much that could be changed to reduce the time needed to create buy revising the interface to make creating a more efficient task. Sub-layers. I'm sure most people are aware of the theck/thack (are they still called that?) layers, while not a ground-breaking change, it would be nice to be able use some of these semi-thick layers even if only for aesthetics. Also 4 thick layers (1 per player) would be nice. Greater camera flexibility. This alone would remove a lot of LBP2s limits, if the camera could be moved and rotated along 3 axis in real 3D space (even being able to view the level from behind). While there wouldn't be any native top-down and 1st/3rd person 3D support, a more flexible camera would help in creating pseudo-versions. I know it's said to death but some kind of 'save file' microchip really would make quite an impact to creating. Object publishing. Just like how we have separate Level & Object showcases here at LBPC I think LBP itself could benefit from something similar. It seems LBP has plenty of Play & Create but is a bit lacking in the Share area. As an addition to the 'Saved Community Objects' in a player's popit there could be a 'Search Community Objects' option, which would work exactly the same as the level search functions only it would be accessible from inside create mode. Once you find a suitable object you can import it directly to your level with the option to save it for later use (heart it). Another separate option for microchips of logic could also be a possibility. None of these ideas radically change the game to a point were backwards compatibility isn't an option anymore, which I think is something quite important. The 2.5D system, by setting limits on the game, really simplifies everything thus making creation relatively quick and easy. Still, I know a lot of great creators can spend 100s of hours on a single creation. Unless a full 3D LBP comes with a radically new and improved level creator, the player will have a lot more to work with (and the extra possibilities this provides is great) but it also means a lot more time would need to be invested into creating. I think a LBP3 that focuses on making creating in a 2.5D environment faster, along with usual extras like new materials, stickers etc would do well as a sequel. I know personally I have a stockpile of creation ideas that I've not even started because I know it would simply take far too long to create despite it being possible.

2013-08-22 08:29:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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Media Molecule did showcase this 3D sculpting tool with the move for the PS4. Who knows? Maybe they'll implement that? It is possible, since it looks like MM likes to keep it's games in sync with one another

2013-08-22 18:20:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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The 2.5D system, by setting limits on the game, really simplifies everything thus making creation relatively quick and easy. Still, I know a lot of great creators can spend 100s of hours on a single creation. Unless a full 3D LBP comes with a radically new and improved level creator, the player will have a lot more to work with (and the extra possibilities this provides is great) but it also means a lot more time would need to be invested into creating. If you placed the camera directly along 1 axis and used orthogonal projection the game would be entirely 2D. Wouldn't that make it even simpler to edit in? You can't edit points directly in 3D space anyway, since you're behind a 2D screen. It's really not any different to how it is now, is it? The interface ought to remain largely the same.

2013-08-22 22:10:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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If you placed the camera directly along 1 axis and used orthogonal projection the game would be entirely 2D. Wouldn't that make it even simpler to edit in? You can't edit points directly in 3D space anyway, since you're behind a 2D screen. It's really not any different to how it is now, is it? The interface ought to remain largely the same. I think he means to have the camera free from the current constraints, I might be wrong, but that's what I understood...

2013-08-25 03:01:00 Author: Alex-Raven Posts: 147

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