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Sequel to Jedi Arts

Archive: 13 posts

The rumors are true!! What's that? There haven't been any rumors? Um.... Hey did you hear that I was messing around with building a sequel to Jedi Arts? That's a rumor now.... and now it's not, 'cuz I'm here to confirm it!

If you don't know Jedi Arts, what the freak is wrong with you?! It's the best level... it's one of the best levels... it's an amazing level... well it's a pretty good level that I published two years ago. Jedi Arts is the 7th most hearted level in LBP2 and the 32nd most hearted level in LBP overall and most of the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. I'd love to brag about what a genius I am, but I never intended it to be more than an experiment and I think most of my plays came from having "Star Wars" in the title.

So yeah, after a two year hiatus, I've decided to come back to LBP and see if I can improve on its many flaws with a sequel.

First improvement: Force powers!! Much of the feedback I received was that people wanted to be able to use the force. So far I've implemented a force pull (using an attract-o-tweaker) and force push (left or right on the d-pad pushes in the respective directions). Force push sends out a little "aura" thing that opponents can try to dodge and, while the push is reasonably strong, it is possible to almost completely cancel it out by using the strong stance (L2 button) and running against it. Force lightning will be a limited time power up. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how it will work, but I'm leaning toward making it essentially behave like a really long lightsaber: it will repel and be repelled by other sabers so it'll be blockable but the extra reach compared to a saber will make it a powerful temporary upgrade. I'm also planning on adding in a double-jump a la Lego Star Wars

Second improvement: gameplay. I'm going to change it so that instead of one hit kills, players will need to be hit twice (or one sustained hit) to die. There will be some sort of visual feedback like a flickering or glowing or something (I'm open to suggestions on how best to accomplish this) and a short recovery period of like 3 seconds or so, during which a subsequent hit will be fatal. That should open the way for some more vicious fencing and attack/retreat play (a quick force push to try to stop an opponent from scoring a second hit or a force pull to bring back a retreating opponent) and hopefully give the players a greater sense of control.

Third improvement: level design! I enjoyed the visuals in Jedi Arts and I received a lot of praise for it, but honestly it wasn't the best gameplay-wise. This time around I plan to go for a more "Smash Brothers" style of level where ring-outs are a very real danger (force push/pull and double jump should make for some interesting edge-of-the-ring struggles). The arena is also going to be smaller (that was a major blunder in Jedi Arts: the level was big and it worked great if everybody was playing on separate PS3s but sharing a screen didn't work). This means I won't be able to use as many locations. Ultimately the thermometer will be the final judge, but I was thinking of having a changing arena so that you start out in one location and go through two or three others (Dagobah, Cloud City exterior, etc). It will end up with Mustafar because LAVA IS AWESOME!! I've got a pretty good lake of lava effect and I'm planning on implementing some eruptions and such. Once I've built out the Mustafar section, if there's thermometer left over, I'll add in another scene or two (perhaps the game will start on a ship that ends up crashing on Mustafar).

TL;DR: I'm making a new Jedi game with force powers and lava! I could use suggestions on force powers, and especially possible ways to make force lightning work, and if anybody has any ideas on cool looking lava effects (beyond simply using the lava material) and how to keep them thermo-efficient or any other ideas, I would love to hear them!

Oh, and I believe I made a passing reference to a boss fight. Well.....
http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/666a072c08e663e9bd7b1e017cacd4f6e807a5aa.jpg
...... I could also use suggestion on how best to program the saber AI for a boss with four sabers! 		2013-03-22 22:59:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Awesome! Loved the first one!

As far as Grievous' attack go, look at this fight from the Clone Wars season 5 (Possible Spoilers BTW):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADS8P4hFx2w

Things about his fighting:
- Use of all limbs to climb around
- Using two lightsabers in a spinning motion to deter attackers
- The fact that, when it comes down to it he only really attacks with two at a time or all four, but in pairs.

Hope this helps.		2013-03-22 23:29:00

Author:
Jedi_1993
Posts: 1518

- Use of all limbs to climb around
- Using two lightsabers in a spinning motion to deter attackers
- The fact that, when it comes down to it he only really attacks with two at a time or all four, but in pairs.


Thanks! It always does me good when I hear that people enjoyed it.

I like the idea of using his limbs to climb around, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be for a sackbot. Unless there have been some new additions to the game, or some new tricks people have discovered that I missed in the last couple of years, I can't think of any way to make a bot do that. I might be able to pull off something with an attract-o-tweaker but it would affect the players too, not just Grievous.

The thing about using four sabers is that in 3D, a flurry of sabers makes for a ridiculous challenge when it comes to parrying or getting through his parries. In 2D, an overhead strike from four sabers is no different than an overhead strike from one. I suppose I could make it so that it's easier to parry one saber but two or three will be unblockable. I'm also thinking that he could execute overhead and underhand strikes at the same time and I might give him a thrust move as well (one spinner, one from above, one from below, and one stabbing in the middle could make for a serious challenge when it comes to blocking). He should also be able to handle attackers on both sides with little difficulty, though the logic for that is going to be a chore to create!

There are also problems when it comes to creating a boss without force powers to fight against players with powers. There's no logical reason for Grievous to have a double jump (since it's a force power) which means he'd have a difficult time recovering from a well timed force-push off a cliff unless I nerfed the push so much as to make it useless. I would LOVE to give him a grappling hook to use for fall recoveries, but bots can't use 'em :-(

Unfortunately, there's no way to do the four arms thing, so the sabers will essentially be floating around him. All of my bots' sabers float, but at least their hands follow kinda' close to them so you can imagine they're holding them, but with only two arms to work with, the animation will be lacking.

I'm thinking I'll also give him a blaster to make things more interesting: if the players try to keep their distance or use force push on him, he'll start taking shots at them, which they'll have to block. Won't be too challenging, but it's a new play mechanic to add a bit of variety.

And I'm thinking of adding in his guards when his health starts to get low, similar to the way that Vader started force-throwing debris at the players a la "Empire Strikes Back" in Jedi Arts when his health dwindled. They'll be pushovers (one-hit kills) but throw two of them at the player at the same time they're trying to fight a four-sabered monster and it could get dicey!

[EDIT] I've designed the costume and staff for the Magnaguards (Grievous' droid guards).
http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/f16e19af2d8f551967f162de8cb8cfb2f35d4227.jpg

Also, I had a thought about the boss fight. I was thinking it might be cool to require the player to wear his health down and then ring him out to finish him off, similar to Liquid Snake from the first MGS. Then I could include a quick death-by-lava cut-scene. Any thoughts on that? Also, I'd be interested if anybody has any thoughts on how to display his health: something that doesn't include a big ugly healthbar floating around. Maybe he'll start glowing red as he takes damage and when he's ready to be finished off, the red glow will start pulsing rapidly.		2013-03-23 09:05:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Why aren't we friends?

http://i0.lbp.me/img/ft/fc083caa86295efe596609d9c6143e8f6de1b70f.jpg
http://if.lbp.me/img/ft/f6fae28c4ba564e69166b9b2b76397ce1b2c3367.jpg
http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/4baad1c61b247e84d22382b05aeb3d6e51371e36.jpg
http://id.lbp.me/img/fl/1adddbaeddb264fd8ed60dbce4c2e33b94b07e6e.jpg
http://i9.lbp.me/img/fl/2692533c4aa4dc4879725c50a38b9e74d1474049.jpg
http://i3.lbp.me/img/fl/923d7d3dcc050dea82b0e4b602c46706cb916eb4.jpg

Seriously.

I have a level I'm working on myself. Inspired by yours actually. I've given force powers such as double jumpe, force dash, wall jump, ledge grab, and I'm working on a force push. You should check it out, I have a great 3D background and I have much much more as you can see in the pictuers. That's not everything I've got either.

here's a link to my object showcase explaining some stuff. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=76120-Millenium-Falcon-from-Star-Wars-Movie-accurate I'd like to work and help each other out if your interested.		2013-04-02 12:31:00

Author:
Vex_Doppel
Posts: 108

Why aren't we friends?

I'm not sure, but it might have something to do with the fact that your friend list seems to be full. Also I've been on a two year hiatus and haven't made any friends during that time. If you can make space on your friend list for me, I'd be happy to join.

In other news, an update on my progress:

The basic level design for Mustafar has been done for a while now, though I'm still in the process of prettying it up and tweaking things here and there. I'm slowly managing to teach the A.I. how to move around the level without jumping to their doom. They're still a bit dumb, but it's coming along. While they don't use the force powers too often, they will break them out occasionally (they almost always manage to take me by surprise and send me hurtling toward my doom). They're also a force to be reckoned with when it comes to saber combat. Their grip is weaker, making it easier to parry their attacks but they're vicious attackers and their aim is impeccable. They're also MUCH better at ganging up on a single player than I intended them to be (might have to limit it to a single A.I. at a time).

Here's a screenshot of a small area of the level:

http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/40afda47f9da53454365b30b3b6fbbe0eca7594b.jpg

Visible in this image are the lake of lava (waterfall material layered on top of the lava material from LBP1), an early version of the lava eruption effect to the left (needs some more vfx to make it look flashier), a small area of the unfinished scenery (needs some decorations and lights and stuff), and the force field that keeps the eruptions at bay. After a few minutes of playtime, the force field will go down allowing eruptions to hit players and the scenery, and yes, there will be a chunk that gets melted and falls into the lava, making the safe areas smaller and the level more hazardous.

You can also see me taking a hit from Darth Vader (it's Mustafar, so he hasn't had his accident with the lava and gotten his helmet and suit yet), who is one of the A.I. enemies that shows up if there aren't enough human players. The red glow around me is the damage indicator: it flashes for about three seconds before healing, and I'm vulnerable to a lethal blow until then.

I've also begun teaching General Grievous how to move around the level. The Sith have the double jump that they use to recover from falls, but Grievous doesn't, so I'm finding it more challenging to teach him to keep from falling. I'm planning on building a grappling hook device for him to save himself from some falls (hooked to a randomizer so it only works about half the time) and he'll also be able to jump back out of the lava if his health isn't depleted (he'll be on fire for a few seconds after emerging from the lava).		2013-04-02 23:12:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Ah, that list keeps filling up. I'm away out of town right now. Soon as I get home I'll send you an invite. Oh, I have a couple tranformer vehicle modes. Seeing as your a fan of them too. I have Optimus and Bumblebee in their G1 vehicle modes.

Your level is looking really good. I''ve been looking at lava effects too for a different level i'm working on.		2013-04-03 01:21:00

Author:
Vex_Doppel
Posts: 108

Update time! Here's a couple of pics from the current build:


http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/9180d75278a2e213a41494871ec26c0ea4214b0a.jpg http://i2.lbp.me/img/ft/7a29a696706c4a7a412183bc51aa86a5e6989367.jpg

In the first image, You can see Grievous is on fire. You can also see a Magnaguard dropping in from overhead. In the second image, Grievous is in the upper/middle level (mostly concealed: I suck at screenshots) and glowing red (he has a flickering red light that glows brighter and brighter as he takes more damage) and two Magnaguards chasing me.

I'd say the level is about 85% complete. I need to add Grievous' third and fourth lightsabers and give him some special attacks. After that, it'll just be a matter of scripting the way the level will play out. I don't get much time to work on it these days but it should be done within a couple of weeks.

Some nifty tidbits:


Grievous pulls out a blaster and fires off three quick shots every time you use force push on him. These shots can be reflected back at him with your lightsaber.
Grievous can be pushed into the lava, but rather than dying, he'll take damage and jump back out on fire (the fire goes out after 6-7 seconds).
Grievous has a grappling hook that he will randomly use to save himself from falling into the lava. He begins with an 80% chance of grappling but it goes down as his health dwindles. When he's nearly out of health, he loses his grapple all together. (Special thanks to evret for the grappling tech and for solving several other problems I've run into)
When Grievous is at 50% health, a Magnaguard will spawn and attack you for the rest of the fight. When he's at 25%, two guards will show up but only if there are one or two players: there will only be one guard in three or four player games.
After a couple of minutes of gameplay or a player achieves a high enough score, the protective forcefield will go down and lava eruptions will be able to fire into the play area.
One of the lava eruptions will destroy the "arm" that sticks out to the side of the level. The other will be destroyed by Grievous at the beginning of the boss fight. This will mean a smaller play area, making ring-outs easier to achieve.
Lava eruptions can be pushed with the force: once pushed, any damage they inflict on players or bots will award points to the player who pushed it.


So yeah, it's coming along. My girlfriend just played it with me and she said it was lots of fun (AND IT'S AWESOME -Stolen keyboard by said girl)!		2013-04-28 01:32:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

This looks pretty amazing - seems you've got it all under control now but I'll keep an eye on the thread for updates and help if necessary! 2013-04-28 13:05:00

Author:
Blackfalcon
Posts: 409

Let me know if you need any playtesting or wanna bounce some ideas around. Also if there's anything of mine you would like to use or have made, let me know and I'll see what I can do.2013-04-29 09:55:00

Author:
Vex_Doppel
Posts: 108

It's almost finished! Vex hooked me up with a logo and with a good sequenced music that a friend of his made and it worked amazingly (after only one or two crashes). I just wanna run a couple of online play tests (all my recent tests have been local and I just wanna' make sure it can actually play online) and there's one or two bugs to fix and (fingers crossed) I should be able to publish it late tonight or early tomorrow if I can get some time with my PS3.

I'd like to create a trailer for it to publish on YouTube and to embed in the advertising thread here and on other sites: if anybody has an HD capture and would be willing to record for me, let me know.		2013-05-24 18:22:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Love the artwork! Im kinda avoiding too much information so I can be surprised. Great work!2013-05-25 23:27:00

Author:
Rpg Maker
Posts: 877

I just played it(Unfortunately, it was Singleplayer, but still), and here are my thoughts:
Very fun, with satisfying combat, although it gets slightly repetitive after a little repetitive after a while, but then the Boss comes, which was a bit annoying at first(Very hard to defend against), but I got a pattern down. Unfortunately for me, that was ruined by the Magna-Guards, who are really annoying, and would probably work a lot better if they didn't spawn so often. Oh, and I also found a bug - Grievous will occasionally fall down to the Lava, and be stuck. I did manage to bring him back by going on a lower platform, and getting him to follow me back up.

Now, I'd just like to say, that although I have listed a lot of problems(I tend to be quite critical), I actually really liked the level overall, and I'll try to have a go at Multiplayer soon.
Oh, and I do have one quick suggestion that would vastly improve the combat in my opinion - Light Sabre Throw. 		2013-05-26 02:29:00

Author:
Robo4900
Posts: 409

Yeah, I guess I shoulda' mentioned that it's finished. The thread about the finished level is here:
https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=79988-Jedi-Arts-The-Ways-of-the-Force


Very fun, with satisfying combat, although it gets slightly repetitive after a little repetitive after a while

Yeah, the A.I. is a standin when you don't have anybody else to play with, but they're not very creative. They pretty much just charge right at you over and over.


but then the Boss comes, which was a bit annoying at first(Very hard to defend against), but I got a pattern down. Unfortunately for me, that was ruined by the Magna-Guards, who are really annoying, and would probably work a lot better if they didn't spawn so often.

He's meant to be tough. He's not unbeatable 'cuz you've got infinite lives so you should be able to finish him off sooner or later no matter how much trouble he gives you, but he does have the potential to drain your score if you don't do well against him. I've changed the magnaguards so they wait about two seconds or so to respawn (only works if they've actually been alive for two seconds before getting killed). The magnaguards are there specifically to frustrate your pattern: the difficulty is meant to scale up as you get closer to killing Grievous, but, at the same time, they increase your point-earning potential if you're into that sort of thing.


Oh, and I also found a bug - Grievous will occasionally fall down to the Lava, and be stuck. I did manage to bring him back by going on a lower platform, and getting him to follow me back up.

Yeah, that was a persistent bug. Turned out there were three separate issues that would cause him to get stuck, but I think I've squashed them all now.


Now, I'd just like to say, that although I have listed a lot of problems(I tend to be quite critical), I actually really liked the level overall, and I'll try to have a go at Multiplayer soon.

Glad you enjoyed it. I consider it much more fun when you get somebody to play against, especially if they're pretty good. I played against someone who was actually good enough to beat me (I've gotten TONS of practicing while I was testing) and I loved it!


Oh, and I do have one quick suggestion that would vastly improve the combat in my opinion - Light Sabre Throw.

That could be fun if I did it right. I was trying not to overcomplicate things, though. I wanted the controls to be easy to learn, no special commands to memorize, and very twitch-friendly. I guess I've still got the L1 button to play with and I could probably set it to be pretty intuitive: L1 throws it while the right stick guides it, which would be pretty user-friendly since you're already using the right stick to guide it. Set it to go out for a second and a half or so (or until the player releases L1 or R2) and then home in on the player again. Maybe if I make a Jedi Arts 3.		2013-06-02 08:21:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188


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