Archive: 28 posts

---

Before I get jumped for the thread title, let me explain myself! :B To me, it seems like platformers have been going into some sort of stagnation over the last couple of months. Maybe I am hallucinating, but nowadays I associate the term "LBP2 platformer" with a generic workout for sackboy, made to show off a bunch of scenery with some filler gameplay so that you can still call it a platformer. Don't get me wrong, there are still A LOT of good platformers out there, but it seems to me like most of the really popular ones follow this boring reciept on what a platformer is and should be. (Not all of them though, just the majority.) I am not very fond of this trend, it seems to me like creators are focusing on trying to replicate famous platformers and following this reciept for "success" rather then following their own creativity and making something unique and new. Instead of complaining about this in general I am going to state exactly what I am bothered with and what I would like to see. See this as a kind of platforming wishlist, or perhaps ways to evolve a platformer that is acceptable by todays standards. If you remember back to LBP1 people would create stuff that is rendered horrible by todays standards, this is what I would like the next generation of platformers to do! > Unique platforming! This might be a bit hard to pull off, I admit. That dosen't stop me from putting it on my wish-list though! It seems t me that most platfomers have this generic fast gameplay. Bouncepads, spinning things, flashing lights. Throw it out and let in some new gameplay, I say! Dare to try new things and tricks, explore new corners of the editor. Seeing something unique is soo rare nowadays. It feels like I have already played all of the platformers, at this point they are just changing texture packs. > Puzzles are awesome! I honestly can't remember the last time I had to stop and think in a platformer. What's wrong with thinking? I like to think. Does anyone here like to think? I'd like to actually stop for once and consider what I need to do! I haven't done that in ages in a platformer. Some might argue that they don't want to include too much thinking because there's children playing levels and that they would never get the puzzles. I for one really don't get why you would be making levels exclusively for children. > Dare to challenge the player! Trying to get through a segment for several minutes and finally succeeding is something incredibly rewarding and fun. Yet 90% of the platformers are SOOOO simple. You can practically run through them with your eyes closed! I'd like to see harder levels. > More storytelling! I'm not saying that every platformer needs a story; most of them can survive perfectly fine without one. But when you do include a story I'd love to see something more then a static character stating that someone stole his x and that you need to get it back from y. (Ironically that is the plot for level I'm working on xD ). I'd also like something more then some speechbubbles giving you the plot; I want proper animations, camera angles, whatevers! As long as it isn't a random cardboard dude/sackbot just..sitting there and giving you the plot, I'd be happy. > Proper secrets! If there's going to be secrets, do it properly. Nowadays one can throw in eight things of whatever that gives you points and then have some lights show how many of them you found.What happens if you find them all? You get more points, yay you. I'd like to see better rewards for finding these secrets, but I would also like to see better hiding places. I'm tired of finding secrets by walking to the left of things :b Lemme try and memorize codes, use skillfull platforming, solve clever puzzles, whatever! I'd like levels to stop throwing in secrets just to have them there. That is my current wishlist. Any level that manages to do at least one of these are usually worth playing IMO, if they pull off more then one they are pretty great. What the community CAN do at this point is scenery. Oh boy, are the creators skilled in that field! But what have caused this stagnation? I am going to go ahead and guess that it's the Mm picks. I'm not saying that Steven is doing a bad job, not at all. I love the fact that all kinds of levels can be picked now (remember when only non-platformers got picked every third month?) and it's great having five new levels to play every friday. However, with so many peeps playing through the Mm picks it has become the sign of being a successfull LBP creator. It seems to me like most creator's goal is to get that huggable dude to pick your level. And how do you get him to pick your level? Why, you analyze the levels at the top and try to make something similair, of course! And so, a great trend of similair platformers have started. Boring! Do you agree, or disagree? What would you like the current platformers to stop doing, and start doing? Are you happy with the current platformers or are you growing bored of them? Discuss! TL;DR: Platformers nowadays are exactly the same but with different scenery. They could be better!

2012-11-04 23:24:00 Author: Mnniska Posts: 531

---

I agree with you that a trend has and is continuing to form, but I don't necessarily agree that it's all that bad. There's plenty of people who still enjoy them even though they''re the same, so those creators keep getting rewarded. Check, I eve n enjoy a lot of them. That being said, I definitely would like to see more of all your points. Not that I could necessarily pull it off myself.

2012-11-05 00:29:00 Author: xxMATEOSxx Posts: 1787

---

I agree with you to a certain degree. I love the fast paced platformer but yeah, after awhile, they all tend to look and play the same. Just a little bit ago I played Compher's Aperture Laboratories LBP1 level. I loved the puzzle aspect of it and I do miss this type of level. I would like to see more puzzle platformers out there but at the same time, I'm the type of guy who doesn't like to spend 30+ minutes playing a level. Mainly because my time is limited nowadays. But yup, I agree with you. I would definitely like to see more than just the run of the mill generic platformer like the one I'm working on now. :/

2012-11-05 01:39:00 Author: biorogue Posts: 8424

---

Agree in every single word. The problem is that when you try to make a hard platformer, even if it has got quality, there are only two possible results: -It is extremely succesful and you get acclaimed by it (like Roller Inc. 2 or your double jump level -that was insane!-). -It is a total failure because people just dislike that kind of stuff, and won't consider even Yaying those kind of levels. One of the creator I admire for his awesome levels (speaking in terms of how smart and well-designed his latest puzzles and platforming levels) is bonner123. His Grievant Palace of I-don't-know-wut was the smartest level I've played in the whole year. It was a joy to overcome each puzzle! Still, I think it received much less yays it deserved for the same reason people don't wanna play hard stuff. Such a shame.

2012-11-05 01:43:00 Author: yugnar Posts: 1478

---

I'm not sure if you have played this level, Mnnsika (I think you have), but I made a level called Glow World, and it has a unique idea. You can use a light to power up contraptions. Although I'm done with LBP2, Glow World is still a proud achievement of mine.

2012-11-05 02:17:00 Author: Apple2012 Posts: 1408

---

> Proper secrets! If there's going to be secrets, do it properly. Nowadays one can throw in eight things of whatever that gives you points and then have some lights show how many of them you found.What happens if you find them all? You get more points, yay you. I'd like to see better rewards for finding these secrets, but I would also like to see better hiding places. I'm tired of finding secrets by walking to the left of things :b Lemme try and memorize codes, use skillfull platforming, solve clever puzzles, whatever! I'd like levels to stop throwing in secrets just to have them there. Probably one of the simplest things to fix from most of the popular platformers now-a-days. It seems like every MM-picked platformer has about twenty "hidden" secrets where you just walk to the left into an obviously-located cavity. There definitely need to be more levels with a multitude of difficult-to-find or almost impossible to reach secrets (ex. Rubik's Tube), platformers with innovation (think LittleBigMe or Remnants: Ignotus), levels that don't shy away from difficulty (obviously Mission ImPAWsibble ), and stories and puzzles that leave a lasting mental impression. It does begin to feel like creators have gotten too complacent with innovation and with create mode, settling for easy knock-off platforming sections rather than truly spectacular innovations. It seems that every generic platformer has a standard set of obstacles (like those grab-able conveyor belts that you hang on to or a set of rotating sponges that just seem to take up space). What with the current state of look-a-like LBP platformers, it'd be nice for a change to have a change.

2012-11-05 05:06:00 Author: spiffyspleen Posts: 23

---

> Puzzles are awesome! I honestly can't remember the last time I had to stop and think in a platformer. What's wrong with thinking? I like to think. Does anyone here like to think? I'd like to actually stop for once and consider what I need to do! I haven't done that in ages in a platformer. Some might argue that they don't want to include too much thinking because there's children playing levels and that they would never get the puzzles. I for one really don't get why you would be making levels exclusively for children. > Dare to challenge the player! Trying to get through a segment for several minutes and finally succeeding is something incredibly rewarding and fun. Yet 90% of the platformers are SOOOO simple. You can practically run through them with your eyes closed! I'd like to see harder levels. This is a problematic area with the modern generation, and I don't speak for all of them, but a lot don't seem to want a challenge. Play any challenging/remotely difficulty flash game online, and look at the comments. You'll see stuff like "dis suks. to dificult!" and "omg boaring, two hard!" My next level is a puzzle platformer. I've been working on it a while, and still the only person that has seen it in action, is myself. My main concerns are that: 1) It won't work when I publish it (there's a lot of logic involved). 2) Players will find it too difficult (I personally don't think it is, though I'd obviously need to gauge other's reactions on this). 3) Players won't see it through to the conclusion - there's 30+ stages in total (will probably end up as 30 stages + a "finale" as such). Whilst I do have plans to implement a "save progress" feature, I'm still worried that people will play a few stages, and never come back to it, because there are some nifty ideas towards the end. Point 3) highlights another problem with many modern gamers - patience. Puzzles/challenging levels require patience. Most would rather play a crap, easy, generic platformer, then mover straight on to the next crap, easy, generic platformer.

2012-11-05 09:58:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

---

This is a problematic area with the modern generation, and I don't speak for all of them, but a lot don't seem to want a challenge. Play any challenging/remotely difficulty flash game online, and look at the comments. You'll see stuff like "dis suks. to dificult!" and "omg boaring, two hard!" Point 3) highlights another problem with many modern gamers - patience. Puzzles/challenging levels require patience. Most would rather play a crap, easy, generic platformer, then mover straight on to the next crap, easy, generic platformer. I have one reply to this; Portal 2. A game which constantly challenges the player in thinking while still being highly successful. If Valve can do it, why can't LBP creators? Also, good luck on your level!

2012-11-05 10:30:00 Author: Mnniska Posts: 531

---

I have one reply to this; Portal 2. A game which constantly challenges the player in thinking while still being highly successful. If Valve can do it, why can't LBP creators? I agree with you, somewhat. However, if you buy Portal 2, you know what you're getting into. You buy it because of the challenging puzzles. A large majority of those who buy LBP2 (or rather those who have been bought LBP2 by their parents ) buy it because of the cuddly toys jumping around on sponge. There are still some great unique platformers out there. Sometimes they're not that easy to find though. Perhaps you should create another one? Also, good luck on your level! Thanks. I'll give you a nudge when I finally get around to releasing it in 3 years time!

2012-11-05 10:56:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

---

StevenI huggable...wouldn't even do it with someone else's arms...btw... Check koknsun's stuff, a guy that is unique and still not picked. http://lbp.me/u/koknsun That means that MM picks favours more the same old stuff than true genius. And imho, platformers don't need a story because the fun of the platformer is the pace and story completely ruins it. The biggest platformers masterpieces (Ghost'N'Goblins, Strider, Turrican, SuperMario, Sonic) have very little story, because the hardcore platformer player doesn't want a story getting in the way-

2012-11-05 13:23:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

---

StevenI huggable...wouldn't even do it with someone else's arms...btw... Check koknsun's stuff, a guy that is unique and still not picked. http://lbp.me/u/koknsun That means that MM picks favours more the same old stuff than true genius. I'm a big fan of koknsun's levels.

2012-11-05 13:42:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

---

Quite well elaborated, but you can't expect a large amount of levels that meet these conditions, or part of them. A small amount of such levels already exist, maybe you missed them ? As MMpick often does.

2012-11-05 14:14:00 Author: goranilic Posts: 332

---

The point is that MMPicks set trends. Because it's normal that everyone wants his moment under the spotlight....though MMPicks are a very flawed feature, 90% because it's wrong and utopistic and unrealizable and unfair, 10% because it's handled badly.

2012-11-05 14:27:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

---

I think Mnniska nailed it, definitely on the "Secrets" part. NEVER do I find hidden secrets, which I loved so much in the beginning of LBP2. Because one time, I walked behind Victoria in this level, and there was a hole that led to a cardboard cutout of Obama.

2012-11-05 15:12:00 Author: DominationMags Posts: 1840

---

> More storytelling! I'm not saying that every platformer needs a story; most of them can survive perfectly fine without one. But when you do include a story I'd love to see something more then a static character stating that someone stole his x and that you need to get it back from y. (Ironically that is the plot for level I'm working on xD ). I'd also like something more then some speechbubbles giving you the plot; I want proper animations, camera angles, whatevers! As long as it isn't a random cardboard dude/sackbot just..sitting there and giving you the plot, I'd be happy. I see this this way: stopping players during the game to say or show him/her something is rather annoying and disturbing. The story can be told in other ways: short intro movie part, various symbols on different places, story related side events and player tasks in the course of play, closing with a short movie, etc, there are more for sure. > Dare to challenge the player! Trying to get through a segment for several minutes and finally succeeding is something incredibly rewarding and fun. Yet 90% of the platformers are SOOOO simple. You can practically run through them with your eyes closed! I'd like to see harder levels. Harder, but not hard! Most players play for fun. Except for the extremely small number of "hard" levels, for all other one need a dose of masochism and a lot of time. I don't have neither of the two, and I believe most people think alike. Harder tasks should be offered as an option in level that will be nice awarded in a LBP manner.

2012-11-05 16:14:00 Author: goranilic Posts: 332

---

Testify, yo. I too am growing a bit tired of seeing the same formula regurgitated onto different styles. I liked what you said about the gameplay techniques and ideas, because the classic "point a to point b" thing can get a bit repetitive after thousands of times doing it. You are also right about it being hard and daring, because deviation is a difficult thing to do when something is popular and supported among the majority. Change is never an easy thing really. Unless it's, like underwear or something. The hardest part for me I think is trying to come up with unique and functional ideas that really draw the attention of people instead of blending in with every other level. I guess you could basically call it inventing at this point. Another reason I think people follow the trend that has been set is because they find it easier to ride along the tracks, like what you said about the Mm Picked levels. The current way is straightforward, pretty easy to make, and it seems to be really popular, so they go for it.

2012-11-05 21:49:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

---

Ahh great little article here. I feel exactly the same way. I even have a platformer 80% finished. All it needs is some decorating. The thing is, I looked at it again and again and all I kept thinking is how very little there was for it to stand out from all the rest. I took a little break from LBP and played Rayman Origins. It was such a breath of fresh air. I knew after completing Rayman that I wanted to make my own platformer GAME not just a level. I've been working hard on it ever since. There really isn't much room for making interesting platformers using the existing powerups. You could probably make some new obstacles like I did in my 80% completed one but like I said it's not impressive enough. Several things will set my new project apart from other LBP levels and even other LBP Platform "games" like Blobby, Super Bunnio and the likes. 1. Faster gameplay. I eliminated the floaty jump as best I could and my bot moves at max speed. He can boost his speed even faster with his dash attack manuever. 2. Besides the Dash attack he has several more moves such as an air attack, a ground pound, wall jump, and float to cross large gaps. 3. Almost no grabbing at all. Except for nabbing some power-ups to gain additional moves in the levels, there are no obstacles in which you grab. No rotating sponges or balls on strings or even switches to throw. 4. Biggest thing is the Badguys, LBP's enemies are terrible. There are other levels out there that have sackbot badguys like Arabesk or CompherMC's Wizard level, but these are different. More variety with interesting attacks and unique death animations. 1 hit and they kill you. You'll have no health bar in this game. And I think, I'm not 100% sure yet, but after level 2 you'll not have infinite lives anymore. 5. Multiple levels, with unique settings, new enemies, new items, new obstacles, and challenges. Super Bunnio was really cool but only 1 level. I'm looking for a bigger and more fullfilling experience. It's not going to be for everyone I already know that. Kids who love there nature levels and fast paced platformers will probably turn away from it. This is for creators who know a good level when they see and are tired of playing the same old stuff. I feel partly responsible for the cloning of levels because of my Grabby Gorge level. Easy gameplay and nice visuals. I made it so it was accessible to the younger crowd and I've seen a ton of copies since then. I actually don't see myself making any levels like I used to ever again. I think you'll be controlling a bot or something with a direct control seat from now on. That's truely where the innovation is. Puzzle platformers, I know they were really cool in LBP1 but LBP2 is a different kind of game. Most kids will hate and most adults are like Biorouge, too busy to spend that much time on one level. The first true headscratcher and most will quit. I don't see many people trying to ressurect this type of level because no one will complete and there is absolutely no way StevenI will pick it if it's a challenge. Great point about the secrets. I will make an effort to make them more interesting from now on. I'm done doing the story stuff. I tried but when the levels come out 4 months apart people can't get into your story unless your Bobtox! XD So lets see, Unique gameplay (check), interesting secrets (check) and challenging gameplay once you get past level 2 (check). I'll let you guys know when its published. Hopefully by the end of December!

2012-11-06 02:01:00 Author: Alley_Cat_8633 Posts: 108

---

Platformers don't even have interesting scenery: a majority just try to emulate your (amazing) levels Mnniska. In my opinion, if your level doesn't bring anything new in terms gameplay, scenery or story, it isn't worth playing. People like to place the blame exclusively on the Mm picks but honestly the fansite spotlights are as much to blame (if not more). Every time I check the spotlights (which has been increasingly infrequent), more and more of the levels are generic as hell and offer literally nothing new (whereas I can point out several unique and excellent levels that only get honourable mentions, if that). The community needs to change its attitude surrounding what makes a level good, and fun shouldn't be the only criterion. Now it's self plug time! Whee. I think you might like these Mnniska. Or you might hate them. They seem to have a lot of what you're looking for so yay. PUZZLE PLATFORMERS: http://lbp.me/v/cjdjdj http://lbp.me/v/f8kz4j http://lbp.me/v/0j2qk3 HARD AS HELL: http://lbp.me/v/ff8t-g http://lbp.me/v/0tbw8f zynax555 also has some awesome puzzlers, so I recommend you check his levels out.

2012-11-06 18:55:00 Author: bonner123 Posts: 1487

---

Platformers don't even have interesting scenery: a majority just try to emulate your (amazing) levels Mnniska. It's practically its own style now. I call it the Mnniska-esque. HARD AS HELL: http://lbp.me/v/ff8t-g http://lbp.me/v/0tbw8f But extremely rewarding when you beat them. I should know. Oh, and Mnniska, if you're going to play a Grievant Palace of Blatant Malice, I highly suggest you solve the puzzles first then put stickers on the hint boxes just to hear what they say.

2012-11-06 23:04:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

---

It's practically its own style now. I call it the Mnniska-esque. People keep saying that, I keep disagreeing :B Just because something is cartoony dosen't make it "my style". I know a ton of creators that created with a cartoony style before me, there's no need to take every type of style and have one creator own the rights to it. it's not very LBP and it's not very fair either.

2012-11-07 05:51:00 Author: Mnniska Posts: 531

---

People keep saying that, I keep disagreeing :B Just because something is cartoony dosen't make it "my style". I know a ton of creators that created with a cartoony style before me, there's no need to take every type of style and have one creator own the rights to it. it's not very LBP and it's not very fair either. I know. But you're the one who really popularized it. I think there are a ton more now than there were before you. In fact, I never even saw a single quite like your level before your levels, and I've played LBP since the first game (to be fair, I wasn't on lbpcentral until my join date but I still would have probably seen some). Now it's like there's one every other Creme of the Crop. And it's not just being "Cartoony" The Egg's levels are cartoony, but I wouldn't consider them like yours. http://lbp.me/v/c4gb4p No, yours have this highly geometric feel, in that there are never that many smooth curves in your level, rather squares with much corner editing. Which is funny, because smooth curves I think would be the most cartoony aspect of a level. EDIT: Plus what Alleycat said.

2012-11-07 13:29:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

---

Not that it's your style you came up with, only that it's the only style you use so that's your style.

2012-11-08 02:07:00 Author: Alley_Cat_8633 Posts: 108

---

Platformers are becoming harder and harder to innovate in LBP. I'd say if you're going for platformers, use sackbots or something. Nice visuals aren't going to matter if all you're doing is swinging and jumping.

2012-11-08 16:41:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

---

I rarely play levels and go in with low expectations and a desire to find the good in things when I do play them, so most platformers strike me as above average or at least well designed and fun. I can appreciate a plea for better quality from creators. To truly "evolve" a genre, though, requires something that is rare even among the most creative, talented and technically capable of us. That's true across all walks of life.

2012-11-09 08:05:00 Author: Unknown User

---

I have one reply to this; Portal 2. A game which constantly challenges the player in thinking while still being highly successful. If Valve can do it, why can't LBP creators? Also, good luck on your level! Does anyone else think that LBP is quite a bit like Portal? - silent main character/playable character - ability to create own levels/maps that others can play - puzzle platformer game - sequel with story more developed than the first - online play

2012-11-10 20:37:00 Author: Protoraptor Posts: 960

---

All my platformers have an emphasis on lateral thinking and puzzle solving instead of run/jump/grab/bounce gameplay All of my platformers get innundated with comments such as "this sux, because I didn't know what to do" Kids don't like to use their brains these days. Although they will generally embrace a challenge which requires fast reactions and spectacular feats of digital dexterity, they do not like a challenge which involves flexing their brain muscles. That's just the way gaming is these days. Many 3D adventures with platforming elements now have glowing ledges to show you which areas you can interact with, and most puzzles will simply guide you to their solution despite being embarassingly simple to begin with. I would estimate that at least 90% of LBP players are kids and young teens, a generation of gamers who were raised with an expectation to be guided by big flashing neon signs that say "go this way". I'm not saying that you shouldn't make challenging puzzle platformers for the remaining 10%, but neither should you be surprised when these sort of levels are not well recieved by the brain dead majority. (BTW...my latest level soon to be published is a "stealth puzzle" adventure with no jumping, bouncing, shooting whatsoever, so watch this space)

2012-11-12 09:27:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

---

Exactly ive grown tored of platformers all together i prefer other genres because they dont feel all the same

2012-11-12 17:49:00 Author: Razortehkill Posts: 173

---

Actually, I am a young teen and I really rather like using my brain.

2012-11-21 17:59:00 Author: Protoraptor Posts: 960

Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.