Archive: 36 posts

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Hey, guys. This one's a toughie... I have this interesting idea which I haven't worked on yet, but I will tonight. Anyway, here goes. I hope someone can help me out. I have five platforms that I want to elevate after a certain amount of time has passed. This I know how to do. However, I only want three of them to elevate, and I want the platforms to be chosen randomly. Any ideas on how this could be done? If you did not understand or require further explanation, just tell me. :]

2009-01-11 17:56:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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Not sure i understand

2009-01-11 18:00:00 Author: Sonic5411 Posts: 712

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Not sure i understand That's okay. I have to run off for a bit, but I can make a diagram or something when I come back.

2009-01-11 18:01:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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ok cool

2009-01-11 18:02:00 Author: Sonic5411 Posts: 712

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http://i44.tinypic.com/343kqxz.jpg Alright, there it is. Every 10 seconds or so, only three of those platforms will elevate. However, I want those three platforms to be randomly picked by some sort of mechanism. Did that make more sense? >_<

2009-01-11 18:45:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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All you need is lots and lots of key switches. With key switches, anything is possible.

2009-01-11 18:51:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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All you need is lots and lots of key switches. With key switches, anything is possible. lol. I agree. Key switches are amazing. ... However, I still don't know how to do this. I have an idea in mind, but...x_x Oh, and one more thing. The platforms will stay elevated for about 10 more seconds. Then they come back down, and the cycle repeats with 3 new platforms.

2009-01-11 19:01:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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I'm thinking like plinko from The Price is Right. Drop 3 circular objects with the same colour magnet keys on them into a box with pins in them, and at the bottom have 5 slots, 1 for each piston, and with the same colour key switch at the bottom. I had nothing else to do.. so... http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/ontic/randomswitch.jpg Just make sure every dot is equidistant and the circles hit square in the middle of the first pin.. also the slots at the bottom should be the same size X_X. I did that drawing pretty fast. Might not be 100% random.. but it's the closest I could think about getting unless we get into some super complicated wiring :kz: . EDIT: If you want it to repeat every ten seconds, just have the top circular things come from an emitter with a 15 second lifetime? (5 seconds to get to the slots at the bottom?)

2009-01-11 19:05:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/ontic/randomswitch.jpg Wow. That might just work... You sir, are ingenious. Anyone else, just in case this doesn't work? I'll give it a shot tonight.

2009-01-11 19:12:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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I have an idea, i remember seeing it somewhere. I am not totally sure how it worked but here I go. Paper thin circle of dark matter, then a circle of wood right on top of that, use a motor bolt to put the two together, atach 5 key switches around the circle , have a piece of dark matter above that, a little tiny piece of cardboard below it, attach the two together by a piston, put the key on the piece of cardboard. Now here is where i have no clue what to do, basically you want the piston to snap to the place where the circle is to activate a key and one of your pistons AND you want the circle to stop when ever the piston goes. Multiply this by 3 and now you have your randomizer (problem is that you can not connect more than one connector wire to a piston) At least it is a concept, you can grow upon it if you want. Cheers!

2009-01-11 19:16:00 Author: RAINFIRE Posts: 1101

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I'm thinking like plinko from The Price is Right. Drop 3 circular objects with the same colour magnet keys on them into a box with pins in them, and at the bottom have 5 slots, 1 for each piston, and with the same colour key switch at the bottom. I had nothing else to do.. so... http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/ontic/randomswitch.jpg Just make sure every dot is equidistant and the circles hit square in the middle of the first pin.. also the slots at the bottom should be the same size X_X. I did that drawing pretty fast. Might not be 100% random.. but it's the closest I could think about getting unless we get into some super complicated wiring :kz: . EDIT: If you want it to repeat every ten seconds, just have the top circular things come from an emitter with a 15 second lifetime? (5 seconds to get to the slots at the bottom?) You sir are a genius

2009-01-11 19:55:00 Author: Sonic5411 Posts: 712

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I can tell you with a certainty of 99,9% that a true random effect is not possible. It just doesn't exist on programmed machines/games etc. You can't take real-world physics and make them work in a game (with the current technology that is). Even real physics is completely predetermined. There are just so many unknown factors, that everything seems to be random. It would have been possible to do random actions if MM programmed the games physics like that, but they didn't and it's probably very hard to do and may be impossible with the ps3. For that reason, Trap_T's solution unfortunately is not going to work like this. If you made everthing exactly even, then the circles wouldn't even fall down, but stay on top of the first circle they fall onto. The game will recognize that there is an even space left and right, thus it won't fall down, circle or not. If everything is not perfectly even, then the circles will just fall onto the same spot everytime, because they're set up that way and the games calculations won't change if you don't change them yourself. That said, there are ways to simulate randomness. However, if the actions of the player do not affect the simulated randomness, then the result will be exactly the same each time the level is played. If you go to youtube and search for "lbp randomizer" there are few videos of simulated randomness, but they all are not effected by player actions. So the result will always be the same if you start the level again. I haven't used any of them so I can't say if they work well. The only way to get rid of it always being the same each time the level is played, is letting the player influence the random effect. Let's take a sackboy-sensor for example: Each time a level is played, the player needs more or less time to reach the same spot. If you set up a sensor at some point of the level, which activates a simulated-randomizer, then the time at which the randomizer starts will always be different depending on how long the player needs to reach that point. I suggest you look at a few of those videos to get an idea, and maybe you'll even come up with a better one. The problem is that you want to have a random effect -immidiately- activated after a fixed time. I suggest you let a randomizer "calculate" it's output and save it somehow, like using a semi-permanent switch (permanent switch + emitter to reset.) A simple and quick simulated randomizer I can come up with would be just using multiple pistons, all with different time/synch/pause settings, with differently colored magnetic keys at their end. Make a different colored Magnetic Switch for each output and make them activate if all the keys of the same color are outside the radius. You can get the output using multiple ways, like just taking the currently active switch at the time that the platforms are supposed to activate. This concept will probably take some time to get a new output, depending on the piston settings and how many there are. If you use this one, I suggest you use a semi-permanent switch to save the last activated output. Hmm.. I hope that did not sound too difficult and helped Edit: I just had another, maybe better working, idea. How about making a hidden wheel at the background layer with a lot of sackboy-sensors at the outside. Let it turn all the time. One of the sensors will sense the player and it will be a different one each time depending on how long the player took to get there. Take your 10second timer and use some AND gates together with the different sensors to get a random output. Of course, you have to make sure that the player is inside the radius of one of the sensors at the time the platforms are supposed to activate. For example, let's say you put 4 different sensors on the wheel. The you take 4 AND Gates to connect each of the sensors with your 10sec timer. Each AND Gate will activate 3 different pistons for a certain time. Use Or Gates for that. Hope you understood that, if you can get the player to stay at a certain place at the time the platforms should activate, then this might work very well.

2009-01-11 19:59:00 Author: Shiwayari Posts: 167

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I'm thinking like plinko from The Price is Right. Drop 3 circular objects with the same colour magnet keys on them into a box with pins in them, and at the bottom have 5 slots, 1 for each piston, and with the same colour key switch at the bottom. I had nothing else to do.. so... http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/ontic/randomswitch.jpg Just make sure every dot is equidistant and the circles hit square in the middle of the first pin.. also the slots at the bottom should be the same size X_X. I did that drawing pretty fast. Might not be 100% random.. but it's the closest I could think about getting unless we get into some super complicated wiring :kz: . EDIT: If you want it to repeat every ten seconds, just have the top circular things come from an emitter with a 15 second lifetime? (5 seconds to get to the slots at the bottom?) Wouldnt they go to the same place every time? If nothing else changes then this may be the case.

2009-01-11 20:00:00 Author: moleynator Posts: 2914

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I can tell you with a certainty of 99,9% that a true random effect is not possible. It just doesn't exist on programmed machines/games etc. You can't take real-world physics and make them work in a game (with the current technology that is). Even real physics is completely predetermined. There are just so many unknown factors, that everything seems to be random. Not with that aditude jk

2009-01-11 20:02:00 Author: Sonic5411 Posts: 712

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The plinko idea is probably your best bet, but the main problem with it is if two balls fall into the same slot. You could always emit a dark matter triangle or something just above a hole if a ball falls in, so the other balls just roll off into the next hole. Probably be best to only emit one ball at a time as well, to play it safe. Something else you could do, to add a bit of randomness, is to have the emitters themselves attached to something on a piston, so there's more chance the balls will drop in different places when they're emitted., rather than landing and rolling down the same route. I've no idea if I'm making any sense here, I always have trouble getting things like this down into words, but I'll try and make something like it myself in the game as an example if I get time.

2009-01-11 20:16:00 Author: Ace Posts: 118

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For that reason, Trap_T's solution unfortunately is not going to work like this. If you made everthing exactly even, then the circles wouldn't even fall down, but stay on top of the first circle they fall onto. The game will recognize that there is an even space left and right, thus it won't fall down, circle or not. If everything is not perfectly even, then the circles will just fall onto the same spot everytime, because they're set up that way and the games calculations won't change if you don't change them yourself. Ya I was testing it, and I already knew they would just go to the same place so to solve it, I placed the emitter on a rotating block, so the pieces would emit at different points on top the the plinko board

2009-01-11 20:19:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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Ya I was testing it, and I already knew they would just go to the same place so to solve it, I placed the emitter on a rotating block, so the pieces would emit at different points on top the the plinko board Yeah that would work as simulated randomness, but I don't know how well. The only unknown factor here would be the rotation of the wheel and I think it might not create such a good random effect, but more of a defined sequence. And it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole plinko thing, if there are only 5 outputs. You could just set a "emit-velocity" (no idea what it's called in the english version) and make the emitter throw a key into one of five boxes depending on the current rotation of the wheel. No need for all the little circles. If it seems random enough this way then that's fine, but I think it would be hard to modify this concept to get "more of a randomness". Regardless of what you use, remember that if you don't have the player action influence the randomizer at all, it'll be the same every time you replay the level.

2009-01-11 20:43:00 Author: Shiwayari Posts: 167

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Check out this randomizer Dorien linked me to. I could try working upon it...somehow. F60fzTK-ZiA

2009-01-11 21:27:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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If you take the plinko idea and put the whole thing on a piston which gives some G force it might help randomise it a little as well. Another thought it to have some wheels spinning at different speeds. Let's say you put 5 keys on three wheels, then have something come up with pistons and use a one shot to emit something, which then translates into a layout. If I understand right though, there are only 6 possible combinations for any 3 of the 5 platforms to be up. If you break it down like that, and have 6 different coloured keys which will then more the appropriate pistons up, it should be a whole lot easier to build and "randomise". Let me show you. You have 5 platforms, 3 of them come up. I'll list all the possible combinations. 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 4. 1, 2, 5. 2, 3, 4. 2, 3, 5. 3, 4, 5. So if you think of it like that, you could just have a piston or a wheel with the 6 possiblities and a whole lot of and/or switches. I hope it helps.

2009-01-11 21:28:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Check out this randomizer Dorien linked me to. I could try working upon it...somehow. Yeah that's one of the randomizers I meant with search "lbp randomizer" on youtube. There are a few others: youtube.com/watch?v=MgNvrzM36L8 youtube.com/watch?v=EAqAppuD-IQ youtube.com/watch?v=nOZ28XYFkM0 (Didn't want to chain videos here so I posted the links..) I didn't test them either, but they seem to work pretty well. Just don't forget some kind of player input to avoid the same results each time the level is played (just to mention it again ) If you take the plinko idea and put the whole thing on a piston which gives some G force it might help randomise it a little as well. Another thought it to have some wheels spinning at different speeds. Let's say you put 5 keys on three wheels, then have something come up with pistons and use a one shot to emit something, which then translates into a layout. If I understand right though, there are only 6 possible combinations for any 3 of the 5 platforms to be up. If you break it down like that, and have 6 different coloured keys which will then more the appropriate pistons up, it should be a whole lot easier to build and "randomise". Let me show you. You have 5 platforms, 3 of them come up. I'll list all the possible combinations. 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 4. 1, 2, 5. 2, 3, 4. 2, 3, 5. 3, 4, 5. So if you think of it like that, you could just have a piston or a wheel with the 6 possiblities and a whole lot of and/or switches. I hope it helps. Just wanted to note that you forgot a few. The number of combinations is 5!/(3!*(5-3)!) = 10. So you forgot four. This are all: 123, 124, 125, 134, 135, 145, 234, 235, 245, 345. Though I didn't quite get what your idea is about.

2009-01-11 22:05:00 Author: Shiwayari Posts: 167

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A random effect could be achieved by having a wheel, with small balls being emitted in the center.. The balls would then have to manage to follow the course of thepath until they reached the end.. Now if you set the bolt wobble, and attached a speed switch to it, which was controlled by a piston.. I'm thinking that'spretty random

2009-01-11 22:45:00 Author: DrunkMiffy Posts: 2758

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Make a calculator with a random number generator that goes from 1-5 and assign the platforms numbers, which correspond to a different colour switch, and make let the calculator be used 3 times before it kabooms.. Good luck

2009-01-11 22:56:00 Author: BizzyBox Posts: 32

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Make a calculator with a random number generator that goes from 1-5 and assign the platforms numbers, which correspond to a different colour switch, and make let the calculator be used 3 times before it kabooms.. Good luck _head explodes YOU make a calculator. To complex to just make some platforms move up and down X_X.

2009-01-11 23:05:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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Just wanted to note that you forgot a few. The number of combinations is 5!/(3!*(5-3)!) = 10. So you forgot four. This are all: 123, 124, 125, 134, 135, 145, 234, 235, 245, 345. Though I didn't quite get what your idea is about. Your right. There are 10. I blame the lack of sleep. :blush: But now that you know there are only 10 combinations, use some sort of 10 point randomiser like the videos you linked showed, and then have each of the keys activate one of the 10 combinations, using a whole lot of OR switches to do activate the 5 platforms. If you have a 10 point cog (I don't know if there is one in game) then it should be too hard to copy the basic randomiser systems used. As for making it a truly random thing, if you have a very early on sensor switch rigged to a permanent switch, it should start the machine at different times. As it's difficult to, for example, cross a 5 minute level in the exact same time to a 0.1 second difference, this should make it look truly random indeed. Sure, it could be theoretically beaten and might not be purely random, but the vagueness to which people play should help iron out such things. It might be fiddly, but it should not be too impossible.

2009-01-11 23:26:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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I like this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNvrzM36L8 (though i have never tried to make it)

2009-01-11 23:52:00 Author: Unknown User

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Hey, I'm new to the forums. One thing to make it more random, you could have the cog linked to a sensor switch (as Elbee said) then have the switch connected to the cog but with the behaviour set to Speed. Have quite a wide radius for the sensor and make it so the player will be running through the radius, each player will never move through the radius exactly the same. So long as the cog is allowed to spin for a certain amount of time this should make the results random enough.

2009-01-11 23:56:00 Author: EastwoodAndy Posts: 70

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You've probably figured this out by now but there's a level called "Simple Randomizer" and it's copyable. You can find it through LittleXim's (MM) hearted levels

2009-01-21 10:35:00 Author: Unknown User

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I can send you a randomizer that I won from the Scary Factor level on PSN if you want. I haven't used it for anything, but you could either use it to control a single piston that randomly pops and stops back and forth underneath the area with the switch to be triggered by individual keys for each piston that holds the platforms or set it's keys to different emitters that randomly disperse blocks with different colored keys on them, and use matching colored switches for the platform pistons. Or study it and build your own randomizer. It's basically an enhanced, and totally random version of the sliding keys in the first part of the collector boss battle. However he did the crushing room in Torn By Darkness would probably be good... I don't know how though D:?

2009-01-21 12:18:00 Author: Unknown User

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Haha, trap_t again ^_^ Plinko idea sounds good, y'know the poles the emitted circles bounce of on the way down? If you make them spin and put some little ridges on, it will be virtually random

2009-01-21 20:45:00 Author: Pinchanzee Posts: 805

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Hi, I played a tetris game on lbp called my crazy tetris 1.02 or something like thatand i restarted the level 3 times to see what the first block would be and it was different each time. So, It is possible to have a truly random thing looks like or at least it would be really close to random.I also had my own idea of random just now but went looking for that tetris level so i forgot Thanks, STUFFSTUFF

2009-01-21 20:59:00 Author: stuffstufflbp Posts: 36

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Haha, trap_t again ^_^ Plinko idea sounds good, y'know the poles the emitted circles bounce of on the way down? If you make them spin and put some little ridges on, it will be virtually random What if you took this one step further and used emitters to emit different rotating poles in the same spots. You could have 3 different emitters for each pole, to provide an additional degree of randomness. Another idea I had was to use the gravity physics to your advantage. I don't know what other people have witnessed, but from what I've seen the same object doesn't always fall the same way twice... For isntance, I built a bridge the other day that crumbles when you run across it. I tested and tested and re-tested to make sure that my way out would always work. Each time I crossed the bridge, the pieces would fall slightly differently. On top of this concept, if you ran across it with 2 players, weight would be distributed differently, and thus provide a whole different way for the blocks to fall. Maybe you could try to have a sinclinal plane at the top where you have between 1-4 metal balls rolling back and forth (being emitted with a life span of only a few seconds, with 4 emitters with completely different emit and sync times). When the player runs across a prox switch (or whatever it is you are using) the bridge collapses and the pieces fall into catches to trigger the pistons. Or take it a step further, have them fall into your plinko machine!

2009-01-21 21:05:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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What if you took this one step further and used emitters to emit different rotating poles in the same spots. You could have 3 different emitters for each pole, to provide an additional degree of randomness. Another idea I had was to use the gravity physics to your advantage. I don't know what other people have witnessed, but from what I've seen the same object doesn't always fall the same way twice... For isntance, I built a bridge the other day that crumbles when you run across it. I tested and tested and re-tested to make sure that my way out would always work. Each time I crossed the bridge, the pieces would fall slightly differently. On top of this concept, if you ran across it with 2 players, weight would be distributed differently, and thus provide a whole different way for the blocks to fall. Maybe you could try to have a sinclinal plane at the top where you have between 1-4 metal balls rolling back and forth (being emitted with a life span of only a few seconds, with 4 emitters with completely different emit and sync times). When the player runs across a prox switch (or whatever it is you are using) the bridge collapses and the pieces fall into catches to trigger the pistons. Or take it a step further, have them fall into your plinko machine! The reason the bridge would fall differently each time is because you were on it. But ya, for truly random results you need the person to trip something because the probably wont go the same speed or do the same thing twice.

2009-01-21 21:14:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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The reason the bridge would fall differently each time is because you were on it. Yes, I realize this, but that's why I recommend the metal balls to roll around on it. It might work, I dunno. for the amount of time it would take to build the bridge (and I assume these pistons aren't right at the start of your creation, but somewhere in the middle) it might be worth it. Anyway, there are some great ideas here by other folks, too. ^^

2009-01-21 21:31:00 Author: Inspectigater Posts: 126

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I believe I know a way you could make it work. If you're planning on running Trap_T's method, and have the keys keep resetting, make emitters create those little circles for the keys to bounce off of and set each one to a different timing. That way on each successive run through, the keys will fall into a different slots. This won't make the system "random", as each time the player encounters this obstacle the platform would raise in the same pattern. For example on the first drop X,Y and Z, would always raise and on the second time through A, B, and C would always raise, but at least it will cycle through the platforms.

2009-01-21 22:00:00 Author: mhzinski Posts: 6

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you're somekind of an engeneer......... TRAP rocks like hell.... i was thinking to my self that it would be very difficult to produce that random result but TRAP got it........... i rest my case

2009-01-22 15:33:00 Author: misterwonderloo Posts: 164

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you're somekind of an engeneer......... TRAP rocks like hell.... i was thinking to my self that it would be very difficult to produce that random result but TRAP got it........... i rest my case Thank you :blush:

2009-01-22 15:53:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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