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Lion King RANT

Archive: 51 posts

Earlier today my friends and I got into the discussion of animated movies. Of course this led to the discussion of some of Disney's classic hand drawn films. The subject of Lion King came up and they raved about how it was the best Disney movie ever. They even went as far as saying it was the best animated movie period. Upon my disagreement with such claims, my head was immediately ripped off. I was being told Lion King WAS and always WILL BE the best animated movie ever.

After this conflict I decided I would take the liberties to come to an online community I attend and share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees with me, or has their own two cents on the matter. First off, I don't dislike the Lion King. It is one of my favorite movies of all time. I just don't think it's the greatest animated Disney film ever. And for my reasoning I will be comparing it to two hand drawn films that I think the title rightfully belongs to.

Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin.

Both films premiered not long before the Lion King as they were all three part of Disney's hand drawn renaissance in the 90's. Beauty and the Beast was the first (and only) hand drawn film to be nominated for a "Best Picture"at the Oscar's. A year after the premiere of Beast, Aladdin hit the big screen and took the title of the highest grossing animated film to date. It was also the highest grossing film of 1992. However, when the Lion King hit theaters in 1994 it took the highest grossing title and became the most successful animated film. This is where most people come to the conclusion that Lion King is in fact superior to any other animated movie. In my opinion, no it's not.

I will first start by addressing the characters of each film.

In Beauty and the Beast Belle is a misunderstood bookworm that just wants more excitement and adventure in her life.

Aladdin Is a quick witted, street wise, con artist that has to have daily battle with the guards of Agrabah just to get a scrap of food. However he is truly a selfless and kind person that puts others first.

And now we come to Simba.. Who just can't wait to be king? Yep, that's about it. Simba is a shell of a character. He is a one layered character with no personality. He just could never manage to fill himself out.

Now that I've covered the leading characters of each film. Let's discuss the plots.

In Beauty and the Beast Belle's father is taken captive when he intrudes on the Beast's property. To free him, Belle offers herself as prisoner for her fathers freedom. The Beast of course accepts knowing Belle is his last chance at breaking the spell. Over time Belle and the Beast warm up to each other and fall in love. This of course will cause conflict with antagonist of the story Gaston who wants to marry Belle.

In Aladdin, he is just a poor "street rat" that has to duck the guards on a daily basis in order to eat. Little does he know he is the only one who can set foot in the "Cave of Wonders." Which is why the villain Jafar puts out a warrant for his arrest. Things change when the princess Jasmine escapes from her palace hoping to find freedom. In this time Aladdin saves her from getting her hand cut off (unintentionally stealing an apple) and they get to know each other. Things change entirely when Aladdin is arrested and learns Jasmine is the princess. This of course leads to Aladdin getting the lamp as part of Jafar's scheme (which fails) and he gets the wise cracking Genie. Whom he uses to turn himself into a prince so he has a shot with princess Jasmine. Of course Jafar is suspicious and needs "Prince Ali" gone so that his plan to marry princess Jasmine can carry out so that he can become sultan (which is his ultimate goal.) However he gets his hands on the lamp and things go horribly wrong.

Now for the Lion King. Scar is the kings evil brother who wants to be king. In order to achieve this goal he makes a scheme to kill Simba and Mufasa. When Mufasa dies and Simba lives, Scar tells him it's his fault and Simba runs away. Then Scar gets his way and becomes king and the whole place turns into a mess. After running away, Simba meets two comic relief characters that teach him to not care anymore and forget his past. This is of course until Nala shows up. They fall in love and she argues with him about returning to stop Scar. Simba doesn't listen so the crazy monkey comes back and smacks him on the head (after talking to his Dad's spirit.) And Simba returns and stops Scar.

A very touching and heart warming movie. But let's look at the three. Compared to Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast the plot is nothing more than a stripped down, bread and butter, basic good vs. evil plot.

Last but not least I will discuss the music. Lion King has a gorgeous soundtrack. The score and songs are simply breathtaking. However, I feel Alan Menken's score and music coupled with Howard Ashman's wonderful lyrics in Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin is better. I felt the music on those two films were just more fun and gave a lot more to the quality of the two films. While Lion King's soundtrack is wonderful it's mainly reworked Elton John songs instead of original songs. To compare, here are the songs from each movies beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMGfkOaJ6zw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud7Ja6SBYFQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

Truly a very touching and powerful song for the Lion King. However in Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast their opening songs had a very quirky and fun broadway sound to it. Not only that. But the songs themselves gave you a look at the characters, their daily lives, and what they're about. While Circle of Life is a great song it is nothing more than powerful song with a visually appealing opening sequence.

I suppose I will end that here since this post has become more of a book if anything. However, I want to know your thoughts on this. Do you think the Lion King is truly the greatest animated film ever? Or do you think it is as overrated as I do.

2012-08-12 01:59:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

Quite an odd rant. But ok.

Belle is a girl who wants more than what she has. She is eventually captured by a monster, and falls in love with her captor.

Aladdin is a guy who lies about who he is to get the girl.

Simba is a troubled young "man" wracked with guilt over his assumed role in the death of his father. Unable to cope with what he's done and unwilling to believe he can make a difference, he decides to run away from his duties and forget about his troubles. He must learn to overcome his guilt and maintain his purpose for the benefit of his loved ones.

See how much worse movies are when you leave out vital plot details?

And this is my 9000th post. Sorry, Dragonvarsity.

2012-08-12 02:07:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

I left out no plot details. My description of Lion King was more "brief" if you will but more descriptive than yours of the other two films. Lion King has a simple plot. That much is true.

2012-08-12 02:15:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

I left out no plot details. My description of Lion King was more "brief" if you will but more descriptive than yours of the other two films. Lion King has a simple plot. That much is true.

No, you left out the entire character of Simba and the story of The Lion King and reduced it to a one dimensional shell, which is what I did to your other two examples to prove what happens when you do that.

2012-08-12 02:17:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

2012-08-12 03:07:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

Being a "confused young man" is not a personality trait. That's a state in life if anything. Belle being a bookworm and Aladdin being a quick witted con artist are personalities. I gave equal footing to each story in my post (Beauty and the Beast was the most brief if any of them are.) Your argument was nothing more than posting less than a quarter of Aladdin's and Beast's plots and drawing out Lion King's plot as much as you could. I respect your opinion if you find Lion King the superior film. But if you were are going to argue my points with Aladdin and Beast at least make them accurate.

Um, I'm showing you the stupidity of your argument by showing that it can easily be reversed. Are you honestly not grasping that? I never said anything about thinking Lion King is a superior film. I was showing that you merely neglected to mention, you know, the actual PLOT in your description, and that makes your whole argument moot. I said nothing about arguing against you, I was just showing your argument is on shaky footing to begin with.

and yes, being a "Confused young man" IS a personality trait, as is wanting to be king. And then not wanting to be king because you blame yourself.

And neglecting to mention Simba's whole character arc (of romanticizing being king, to blaming himself for his father's death, to overcoming his doubts and fears and acting his place) and boiling it down to "Good vs evil" is just... no. Your argument was nothing more than posting less than a quarter of Lion King's plot and drawing out Aladdin's and Beast's plots as much as you could

2012-08-12 03:47:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

Please, don't flame. My Lion King plot description was brief description of the whole movie. It was not like yours of Aladdin and Beast where you gave one snip of the movies much broader plots. What you are doing with Lion King is merely digging deeper into the Lion King's simple plot with the idea that I left out "vital plot details" when in fact, it maybe just hasn't occurred to you that the Lion King's plot is that simple.

And Simba? Please, prior to Raffiki, Nala and his Dad's ghost preaching to him what did he learn? He was careless 5 minutes prior in the film. Simba does not develop as a character he merely does what he's told.Which ultimately makes him fail as a character.

2012-08-12 06:29:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

Hmm.
Well, first I am going to have to agree with Rock, that your (biased) plot summaries can be easily be reversed.

Out of the three films mentioned, I have only seen Lion King at the time of release.
I only recently watched B&B and Aladdin for the first time.

Honestly I did not enjoy B&B. The most interesting part of this movie for me was the beast, and they hardly spent any time on him.
Perhaps this is due to me being a guy (uninterested in all that princess business, singing cutlery, ******-bag prince, etc) or maybe I just watched it too late at night.. :/

Aladdin was decent, but not as enjoyable as Lion King imo.
Because I actually saw LK @ the movies? Because it had more humor?

And based on overall quality of the movie (plot/music/animation) I would wager the majority would feel that Lion King is the superior film, as it covers all the bases well.
"Tangled" is very similar in that regard, which is why it also got good ratings.

IMO, Lion King is the best (overall) 2D animated movie I have seen.
However, I do prefer the songs from Tangled (I would rather not listen to any disney songs, so take that with a grain of salt), the animation from Tarzan, and the plot from Iron Giant.

The above post obviously does not include The Incredibles, since that movie is too awesome.

2012-08-12 07:16:00

Author:
midnight_heist

Posts: 2513

Incredibles is best Pixar movie.

I completely understand where you are coming from. Although I disagree with the whole part about the Lion King but since this is suppose to be an opinionated thread that's not a problem. As far as the "bias" I will refer to my post above yours. Keep in mind, I am not the only one who has these issues with the Lion King, several other movie critics have pointed out the same issues with the plot and Simba. However they've gone as far as calling the movie bad. Which I completely disagree with because the flaws Lion King has does not make it a bad movie.

Tangled, was in fact spectacular. Alan Menken (who did the music for Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast) did an excellent job on the score and music in that film as well.

As far as BatB, Beast plays an almost equal role to Belle since practically the entire last quarter of the film centralized on him. (Plot to kill him, battle on the castle with Gaston, his death/transformation.)

2012-08-12 07:37:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

TLDR Me and my friends had an arguement over a trivial matter please tell me I was right internet.

2012-08-12 08:39:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Your pointless contribution to the topic at hand has been duly noted.

2012-08-12 08:45:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

2012-08-12 09:24:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

It is the topic in a nutshell. You and your friends like different things which is the way life is but instead of accepting that different people have different opinions you decide to have a rant about it because you need your opinion validating.
This hardly warrants a response. But I shall respond anyways. As stated here:

Do you think the Lion King is truly the greatest animated film ever? Or do you think it is as overrated as I do.

This thread is for your opinions on the Lion King itself. The argument I left was the reasoning for my opinion. I just want to know what others think. There is no harm in that. So sure that's my topic in a nutshell if you completely ignore the last part of the entire post. If you have a problem with it, don't respond. Simple solution.

2012-08-12 11:30:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

I'm not going to discuss the plot, I would however like to discuss the following statement:
"I was being told Lion King WAS and always WILL BE the best animated movie ever."
I would approach this opinion with extreme caution. Clearly these friends of yours are above ever conceding that perhaps there is something better, and how can one firmly believe that from this point onwards, no animated movie will be greater than the Lion King? Your fortune-telling friends seem to think their opinions are fact. I think there are many greater animated movies than the Lion King, but that doesn't make my beliefs a reality.

2012-08-12 12:51:00

Author:
Ironface

Posts: 432

That's actually precisely what I was getting at, thank you. I was comparing the two I found to just be better overall films in terms of quality. But the main point of this thread, was me addressing the fact that Lion King is NOT a perfect movie.

2012-08-12 13:09:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

2012-08-12 20:14:00

Author:
Gavin

Posts: 338

It's really all just a matter of taste. All three of those movies were fantastic. I mean, c'mon. Disney in the 90's? Name one of those movies that WASN'T fantastic.

Besides, we all know the title of Best 2D Animated Movie of All Time belongs to The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

http://youtu.be/8oNzUD0NfJY

2012-08-12 22:05:00

Author:
Frinklebumper

Posts: 941

I find Hunchback a bit too dark for a Disney film. But the soundtrack is fantastic.

2012-08-13 00:35:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

A Disney movie being considered for best animated movie of all time made me laugh.

lolwut

Mmk, Mr. No-Childhood. I suppose your nomination goes to Dreamworks? xDD

2012-08-13 00:59:00

Author:
Frinklebumper

Posts: 941

I find Hunchback a bit too dark for a Disney film.

Have you tried altering the brightness settings on your TV?

2012-08-13 01:12:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

lolno, my vote would go to a Japanese animation company.

Anyone who would choose a Disney, Pixar, etc, animated movie is because they either dont know what else is out there or are just saying that because they're biased from having childhood memories of it.

...Or perhaps it's because Disney's made some good animated films?

And if you're talking Studio Ghibli and the like, then I suppose I can see where you're coming from. (Though I'm not a big fan of anime).

See what I did there? I considered someone else's opinion, instead of mocking it. Cool, huh?

2012-08-13 01:22:00

Author:
Frinklebumper

Posts: 941

Not much of an anime fan but Studio Ghibli has made some fantastic movies.

Have you tried altering the brightness settings on your TV?

Heh, but seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA

2012-08-13 02:19:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

I find Hunchback a bit too dark for a Disney film.

Have you read the book they based it on? Or the live action-movies? Compared to that, the animated Disney movie is pure happiness.

In the novel, the priest frames the gypsy girl, and she ends up being hanged. Quasimodo lies grieving beside her corpse until he dies from starvation. A few years later they find their remains and when they try to separate them, Quasimodo's skeleton turns into dust.

Poor Victor Hugo. Rolling in his grave since 1996.

2012-08-13 09:58:00

Author:
SnipySev

Posts: 2452

Exactly, it was a story that should have never been adapted as a Disney film in the first place. Same to Pocahontas. (Not as dark, but a horrible story to be made into a Disney movie.)

Which is why Hunchback and Pocahontas completely tarnished any chance at success for the much better Hercules, Mulan and Tarzan.

2012-08-13 14:32:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

That's true. Well, kids have probably seen worse things (http://www.cracked.com/article_19768_6-terrifying-childrens-cartoons-from-around-world.html). (Darn, European cartoons are bleak ಠ_ಠ

2012-08-13 18:36:00

Author:
SnipySev

Posts: 2452

That's true. Well, kids have probably seen worse things (http://www.cracked.com/article_19768_6-terrifying-childrens-cartoons-from-around-world.html). (Darn, European cartoons are bleak ಠ_ಠ

Those baby mice stay with you for life.

2012-08-13 19:21:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

That's true. Well, kids have probably seen worse things (http://www.cracked.com/article_19768_6-terrifying-childrens-cartoons-from-around-world.html). (Darn, European cartoons are bleak ಠ_ಠ

I think we should leave all the cartooning to the Americans and Japanese.

2012-08-13 21:29:00

Author:
Frinklebumper

Posts: 941

Woah. I love Lion King, and a great amount of the 90's Disney Movies. I also LOVE their version of The Princess and the Frog.

However, I have a whole lotta love for the following too, And I have to agree with Brem here - 'animated film' does not mean only Disney. There's a whole lot of other companies out there churning out classics.

"The animals of Farthing Wood" - Depressing, realistic, and way too gritty for kids nowadays. show it to them, and enjoy the horror! muahahaha! (strictly a tv series, rather than a film, but still very much worth mentioning. If you haven't seen it yet, please do! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MaFL84DwqM))

Ahem - seriously though, dark it was, but beautiful and touching too.

"Spirited Away" - Studio Ghibli. No contest.

"Anastacia." Yup. It's not the best animated movie ever, there's way too much competition out there. But I have love for it!

Back to Disney:

BAMBI????
The Fox and the Hound?
The Little Mermaid?

One could argue a case for many, if not all of the animated feature lengths films produced by Disney. My favourite animated film of all time though, has to be Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.

Check it out. Yes, the animation is old fashioned. Yes, the voices are hilarious (I'm WISHING!!!) And yes, the songs are epic. And it carried with it a whole bunch of firsts, and a whole heap of promise for animation in the west. Can't beat a film loaded with possibilities like that.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion, and has very little to do with the original debate about Lion King. probably because as Rafiki would say: "It doesn't mattah! It's in de past!!!"

2012-08-13 21:50:00

Author:
rialrees

Posts: 1015

Those baby mice stay with you for life.

They deserved it, they were trespassing on Vlad the Bluejay's territory.

2012-08-14 00:29:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

I think we should leave all the cartooning to the Americans and Japanese.

If I had to choose one region to make all of the world's cartoons... I wouldn't choose Japan, that's for sure. It's just my opinion, but their humor tropes and action tropes seem to become lost in translation.

Their comic relief always falls flat. Here's the basic breakdown of an anime show's characters. There's always an annoying kook weirding other people out for no good reason. There's one or more female characters with big breasts, which are constantly being stalked by a pervert. Then there's the Butt monkey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButtMonkey), a stupid character that gets violently slapped, kicked or punched by his friend whenever he says or does something stupid. And a guy or girl who's always dead serious and has no sense of humor. And most of the times, some characters fall into multiple of these categories. The kook who's also a pervert. The kook who's also the butt-monkey. The big-breasted kook. The big-breasted pervert. The serious big-breasted girl who's stalked by the kooky pervert.

Then there are the awkward silences; and the angsty, sappy melodrama; and people doing that weird "ungh" grunt when reacting to something. The long pauses during a fight scene when the camera slowly pans over the two fighters just standing there and looking at each other for a whole fricking minute before resuming the fight. It kills the tension completely.

But the most annoying thing about anime? Characters stating the obvious:
Dude n? 1: I'M GOING TO PUNCH YOU! *moves in to punch Dude n? 2*
Dude n? 2: HE'S GOING TO PUNCH ME!
Dude n? 3: He's going to punch him!

Sigh.
So yeah, I'm not a big fan of japanese animation in general. The only one I really liked was Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Even though it contains some examples of the stuff I just mentioned, it never became too annoying, formulaic or slow-paced.
End rant.

PS: Maybe our western tropes annoy Japanese people as much as theirs annoy me (and other westerners who dislike anime)?

2012-08-14 02:12:00

Author:
SnipySev

Posts: 2452

people doing that weird "ungh" grunt when reacting to something.
Their name is called, they face a new direction, something is heard, an unforeseen occurrence comes to pass, they are lightly touched, something that creates uncertainty is said/done... that noise of puzzlement is heard about four times a minute - in my "Disliking Anime Manuscript" that would be chapter one. Post completely agreed with. And I'm glad you spearheaded the rant on how pitiful the "humour" is.

In my opinion, no anime series/movie/whatever could ever come close to anything by Disney, or Pixar or anything else remotely non-anime. Our regal liony friends make for awesome movies.

2012-08-14 14:08:00

Author:
Ironface

Posts: 432

The Lion King?

Oh, that Bambi rehash that barrowed immensely from Hamlet and has a protagonist with the character appeal of a dead horse? Yeah, I'm obviously not a fan. I suppose it just bugs me that Disney boasted the film as their first "original" animated film. As stated, it not only barrowed themes from Bambi, but Hamlet as well.

I do agree the films you mentioned are in fact superior to the Lion King. Even though I really don't like Aladdin, but I'm not a fan of Robin Williams so that's just me.

As for Beauty and the Beast, I feel Beast would have been a much better example in your post. Belle is a good character, but the Beast is far more interesting and is the best example of true character development.

And Lion King? No thanks, I'll stick to the original:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5UASI5rY7A

2012-08-30 06:19:00

Author:
Rooster

Posts: 38

LIKE THE VOICE OF A HEAVENLY CHOIR!

Anyways, I don't hate the Lion King. Nor do I think Simba's character has the appeal of a dead horse. I just don't think it quite measures up to it's predecessors for the reasons I mentioned.

Also, you would be surprised at the amount of people that find dead animals interesting.

2012-08-30 09:40:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

Also, you would be surprised at the amount of people that find dead animals interesting.

If you're saying watching the Lion King is like poking a dead animal with a stick I suppose I agree.

2012-09-05 06:17:00

Author:
Rooster

Posts: 38

Ummm, from hat I've heard, Simba kinda rips off Kimba the White Lion a little bit maybe?

2012-09-05 06:36:00

Author:
CirkuzFr3ek

Posts: 194

If you're implying the name?

Simba means "Lion" in Swahili.

2012-09-05 06:46:00

Author:
Rooster

Posts: 38

Do you think the Lion King is truly the greatest animated film ever?
Yes.

Or do you think it is as overrated as I do.
No.

Long live the king

2012-09-08 18:19:00

Author:
ARD

Posts: 4291

I too love Lion King. If it were overrated and plot-less, I think it'd be more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OCxQhPm58
Except that's still as emotionally moving I think.

2012-09-08 19:31:00

Author:
Sackpapoi

Posts: 1195

I too love Lion King. If it were overrated and plot-less, I think it'd be more like this:

No where did I say it was plot-less, it's plot is definitely more thin than that of it's predecessors.
Lion King is a great movie, as stated it's one of my favorites. But as far as I can tell it's an extremely visually appealing film that lacks substance.

Even though this scene still brings me to tears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IZVfwrDR9k

As Rooster said, the film owes a lot to Bambi as well.

2012-09-09 00:13:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

I pretty much love ALL the Disney animated classics including the Lion King.

My fave movie of all time is a Disney movie... Lilo and Stitch

2012-09-09 01:22:00

Author:
cthulhu82

Posts: 211

I'm going to take this topic back a step and get back to the Lion King vs Aladdin vs Beauty and the Beast. Actually no, I'm going to just cut through Beauty by saying its definitely the best Disney film in terms of animation, while also having good writing, great catchy songs, and memorable characters.

That said, lets go to the the two or the list that I consider my personal favorites. Let's consider these together. Keep in mind that these are my opinions and while I'm definitely familiar with these movies, I am not watching them at this moment or even recently, so don't rage to much if I get something wrong.

There will be spoilers. Actually, since the spoilers tags aren't working, I'm only going to talk about the main characters for now.

Protagonists

Aladdin is one of if not the best(er my favorite rather), disney protagonists(though not my favorite character overall). I remember as a kid, I thought he was so cool, evading the guards, adventuring as not seen in many other disney films, crafty, charaismatic, etc. I know a few different versions of the Aladdin story, but this redition of the character is my favorite of them. Other than when he has his disney princess song moment(there's sooo much mooore, tooo meeeeeeeeeeeee), you never really pity him even though he's an orphan kid who's got the eat to live and steal to eat (tell you all about it...I'll stop now). Rather than mope, he makes the best of his situation and actually seems as well or better off than others in the film. His quick thinking is great, for instance, not just in defeating Jafar, but even in something as simple as when he dodges a tower rolling over him by hiding in the window(you think that was easy?).

Simba by contrast is...not so interesting. He's alright as a kid because he acts like a kid, sorta. He's headstrong, brave when it counts, naive, arrogant, proud, what have you, more of an idealization than an actual representation of children, which is fine for movies, especailly Disney. As an adult, well, as much as I want to like Matthew Broderick, he doesn't do much to make Adult Simba more interesting. That's actually part of the problem, now that I'm an adult, I see paritally Simba the character and partially Broderick voicing the character. It makes for a weaker character in and of itself. On top of that, he spends most of adulthood sighing, moping, etc (who was it that didn't do that now?). Even towards the climax, he as a character doesn't seem to be growing, it just seems like the movie is evolving around him, leaving the main character behind.

Next up, The Friend/Comic Relief
I was going to put the villains next, but honestly, Genie makes more sense. I know people can be mixed about Robin Williams, you either love or hate his comedy. I'm personally one of the ones who thinks that when he's funny, he's incredibly funny. Williams is the genie, no question. The character's hilarious and fast talking nature are possibly the best things about the movie. Genie makes many pop culture references (again, love or hate), that I feel work incredibly well. He's loud, he's everywhere, and I think it's great. But he's not just comic relief though. He actually has a bond with Aladdin in addition to their deal for his freedom. True, this happens quickly (he's willing to sacrifice his freedom to help Aladdin in the end) but by Disney standards, it flows well enough.

Let me start out by saying, I like Timon and Pumba, They just have the misfortune of being up against the Genie. But by other standards, I think they play off of each other pretty well. It may be the typical smart guy(ish) - dumb guy(but actually smart-ish maybe) duo, but if it works, it works. I also never think they're in my face (too much), which unlike the Genie, would not have worked for them. I remember as a kid laughing my butt off at that one scene near the climax (what do you want us to do, dress in drag and do the hula?), and as an adult, again ignoring the textbook way it is used, still like it for its timing and execution. Back to them storywise, they teach Simba to put his behind in the past. But unlike Simba, they actually remain interesting characters for it. Are they three-dimensional? No. But at least they don't just sigh and stare mith meloncholy eyes into the distance.

The Villain

Jafar is a lot of fun as the villain of Aladdin. He's cunning, laugs maniacly, you know, the whole Disney villain thing. But at the begining of the movie, nothing seems to go right for him. His henchman is the Parrot Iago, he has some magical power(more like conjuring tricks/hypnotism), and that's about it. I think he's better for it as that means he schemes from the shadows, which I think works better than when a villain just overpowers everyone (see later in the movie). During the first half of the movie I really like his conversations with, as he calls him, Prince A-boo-boo(juvenile I know, but hey...). Jafar falls hard at the end of the movie. It's not in what he does, he's still awesome with his magical powers. It's that his dialogue becomes nothing but a series of puns. "I'm just getting warmed up" "Thing's are unraveling fast boy!" "Let's see how snakelike I can be" (after which he becomes a giant snake, which itself is still cool). Maybe there were puns like these throughout the film, but its at about these ones that they start to get incredibly distracting, especially now that I'm older. It's sad to say, but I really have to drop him down the ranks of all time Disney villains for this(Get the point?).

Scar is one of my favorite things about The Lion King. In fact he's my second(or third depending on what included) favorite Disney villain of all time. Why is this? 1. He has an army of Nazi Hyena's. And really, that's all you need(really). But there's more. He's like Khan from the Jungle Book in that he's swauve, clever, etc. But he is actually weaker than the main characters. So like Jafar, he has to work from the background, pulling the strings from the shadows of his Volcano-esqu green steam, stone shifting Nazi lair (just that whole Be Prepared segment is just awesome). But unlike Jafar, he never gains magical powers or general omnipotence. It would be incredibly easy to beat him at any point, but noone does(until the end obviously). Why is this, because he was smart enough to build himself up in this sort of aura of power (similar again to Khan, except he doesn't get punked by a kid with a buring stick). An army of Nazi Hyenas doesn't hurt either.His flaws are of course obvous. At the end he doesn't do much outside of a quick mind games attack/typical fight scene. But he does lose some of the interest after he becomes King. However, in my opinion nothing is done to ruin him completely, and even his death is one of the best deaths for Disney villains period.

Wow this is long, too long. I'm going to cut myself off here. I know there's till Iago, Mufasa, the Hyenas, Abu, yadayada but honestly, I think you the reader, are already unhappy with the length here. Thanks for bearing with my ramblings, I can't believe it took a Disney topic to get me to write this much.

2012-09-09 21:40:00

Author:
xxMATEOSxx

Posts: 1787

and even his death is one of the best deaths for Disney villains period.

Fun fact: That death was initially planned for Gaston. The fight between Gaston and the Beast was originally supposed to take place in the woods. He was to fall off of a cliff and break his leg. He then of course can't escape due to his leg, and is eaten alive by the wolves that had attacked Belle and her father earlier in the film. It was changed because they found it too gruesome for an already dramatic scene.

2012-09-10 09:54:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

That would have been very ininteresting to see. Although this would lead this a second mini track on how Gaston isn't all that evil. Also there's a fun way to look at Belle where she is just a terrible person.

2012-09-10 13:59:00

Author:
xxMATEOSxx

Posts: 1787

In my opinion, lion kings wins overall for universal appeal whereas belle is just the typical disney princess brat type and aladin was to male for my sister and nieces to enjoy, simba strikes a balance. he fits as a male protagonist but the fact he has a sensetive side, and that he starts out as a lion cub makes him easy for girls to relate to aswell. beauty and the beast is very much written for feminine tastes and aladin more for boys whereas lion king seems to be very universal in its audience. in fact as an older teen lion king is the only one of the 3 I can still watch and enjoy from start to finish. having seen the stage show in london, I can say that the story works on a higher level then that of the other two, beauty or aladin (having seen them at the pantomime) just aren't as captivating.

2012-09-10 15:47:00

Author:
Smudge228

Posts: 533

I can't believe I forgot our female leads in my main character discussion.
Actually, no, I can very much believe it. They weren't all that memorable.

Jasmine from Aladdin was sort of a step back in terms of the Disney princess feel. We had just seen characters like Belle and even Ariel(she kind of gets in there) for legitimate female protagonists. While Jasmine is certainly more three dimensional than older characters like Snow White or Aurora, she does not quite reach the level we had experienced in more recent movies. Much of this can be explained by the fact that she is not the focus of the movie, and her character can be interesting at times. But when you make the comparison, she just doesn't measure up.

Nala on the other hand, is even less so. Like Simba, she somewhat more tolerable as a child. She's obviously the love interest, but the young Simba/Nala pull the typical kid feelings(I can't marry her, she's my best friend!). At least it gives SImba someone his own age to interact with. As an adult, she becomes less a character and more of a plot device. Yeah, they have the "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" to establish her love interest role, but mainly she is there only to get Simba back to Pride Rock. This could have been done by anyone. His mother(Serafi or something), Rafiki, heck even some random animal could have done the same job. Simba was in a bubble and needed to see what became of his land. Nala starts the process leading to that, and nothing else.

Other than them, theres other character that are good in Aladdin. Iago is a fun henchman(problems with your DAUGHTER!) as is Abu(while he's a monkey, not elephant) but they essentially have a one note tune. Its good fun, but not a lot of depth, which is ok. let's not forget the Sultan either, he's got a lot of energy. The guard is just a guard really, but now we're getting into the very much lesser characters. While we're on the subject, any other fans of Gazeem, the humble thief?

The lion king has a decent supporting cast as well. James Earl Jones as Mufasa, need I say more? I actually feel like Mufasa is a true king. He's not terrible at the Disney father business either. His death is one of the saddest Disney moments as well. Then there's Zazu, Mufasa's stooge. Another relatively basic but still fun character to add. The three main Hyenas(I think its Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed(Edd,Eddy), all definitely fun henchmen. They get a decent amount of time in the movie and it's worth it. Which is interesting because a lot of what they do is just one liners and oddly enough, bad puns. I think I accept it here and not when Jafar does it because it was established from the beginning, so it was not distracting later on. The voicework for it seems more natural coming from them as well. There's Rafiki, the shaman monkey. He has some good moments, especially when he's teaching SImba. He's not hilarious, but he doesn't need to be. The least memorable is of course the mother. An odd thing about her is I can think of her lines (The "It's not TRUEEE" line always cracks me up) but I can't seem to think of anything about her, even her name. In a way that makes her worse than anyone else in either movie, even less than the guard in Aladdin, who at least has some personality.

I think that's it for character and my opinions on them. Looking this over, there are more main characters that I like more from Aladdin than Lion King (Scar vs Jafar being the only exception, and its a big one), but I think the side characters I like in King I like more than those in Aladdin. If I forgot someone or said anything that made no sense, let me know.

2012-09-10 17:06:00

Author:
xxMATEOSxx

Posts: 1787

Sword in the Stone is my favourite Disney film, maybe followed by Snow White.

I ****ing hate Jungle Book with a passion. I don't even know why. I hate all the characters and all the go******** ****ty songs.

2012-09-10 23:33:00

Author:
Ayneh

Posts: 2454

beauty and the beast is very much written for feminine tastes and aladin more for boys.

I frankly don't see how Beauty and the Beast is written for "feminine" tastes. It was actually the first animated Disney movie to have a male role equal to that of the heroine's role. I have to say the say the same for Aladdin since even though the film mostly revolved him it still had Jasmine, who appeals to young girls.

2012-09-11 01:25:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

2012-09-11 02:02:00

Author:
xxMATEOSxx

Posts: 1787

I agree about beauty and the beast. Sure it's s love story will a female lead, and that probably turns people away, but really it has a lot of merit just as a movie. Even for boys. I do disagree about Jasmine though. Just because there happens to be one female character doesn't mean it's gets girl oriented. She wouldd need to be more relateable and internsting than I feel she pulls off for one thing.
At the time, Jasmine was a princess. Which (unlike today) used to be appealing to young girls. She has more depth and personality than Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora. Yet those three are still commercially successful among Disney's princess line as well.

2012-09-11 05:34:00

Author:
bigMoose_

Posts: 183

Gotta agrea with your friends The Lion King is my fav ever animated movie probably up there with my all time favourite movies actually everything about it is amazing. probably the best of hans zimmers work too

2012-09-21 19:03:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ha, I forgot about this thread. Next time I have classwork I don't feel like doing, I'll continue my ramblings.

She has more depth and personality than Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora. Yet those three are still commercially successful among Disney's princess line as well.

I was about to say that that is what I said, but looking back, it really isn't. I do see the point though. Those three are some of the least developed characters, but still incredibly successful. The thing is, the marketing has nothing to do with them as characters, just on the fact that are princesses at all. To be fair, for Jasmine, I was comparing from a writing/development standpoint, not necessarilly popularity. It;s just one of those things that come with maturity/age vs nostalgia.

2012-09-22 01:07:00

Author:
xxMATEOSxx

Posts: 1787

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