LittleBigPlanet 2 - 3 - Vita - Karting #1
LBPVita Could Be Huge If ...
Archive: 81 posts
| Anyone who has followed this industry closely for many years will tell you the two things that guarantee success is branding and perception. If the branding is spot on for the time and a perception is promoted heavily, then a product can literally fly off the shelves. We gamers are in general a solitary lot and view our industry from that insular position, overlooking the fact that the average consumer doesn't even know that games we love exist. These consumers know only of those things that are fashionable to know about. Apple have successfully plugged into that market and there is no reason why LBPVita can't do exactly the same. What we, Tarsier and Sony need to understand and embrace is the fact that the majority of people out there don't even talk in terms of games; they talk in terms of 'Apps'. With that in mind, Tarsier and Sony MUST advertise the online community of LBPVita as an 'Apps' store. The word should be constantly associated with the community in order for it to filter through to the average person in the street. If this is done successful then LBPVita could become something of a phenomena. People often buy really stupid games on phones just because they're 99p. Imagine if Tarsier and Sony could speak to these people. LBPVita is an 'App' store in waiting with experiences and standards that easily match (if not exceed) the quality of some of those phone games. This is an opportunity for branding that Sony and Tarsier simply can't afford to miss out on. So please, when you advertise this fantastic game, make sure that you push the word 'App' HARD, along with the other important word FREE. We don't need advertising aimed at us here because we already now how wonderful this game is going to be, so aim those adverts at the 'trendies' and the 'fashion freaks' of this world and then LBPVita could and probably would become the phenomena it deserves to be. Please, don't underestimate this very short and simple word. It has power out there in the bigger world. LittleBigApps please | 2012-08-05 07:23:00 Author: GribbleGrunger  Posts: 3910 |
| That is a really awesome marketing idea, I SUPPORT YOU! | 2012-08-05 08:13:00 Author: ConanUltimate  Posts: 104 |
| Thousands of player made apps, all for free (minus the game). That does sound enticing. It may be too late to shift marketing gears now, but I don't see why we (the players) can't coin the app term for levels. After all, most are complete departures from the original game, and shouldn't be considered merely 'levels'. Great idea. | 2012-08-05 17:47:00 Author: SSTAGG1  Posts: 1136 |
| Thousands of player made apps, all for free (minus the game). That does sound enticing. It may be too late to shift marketing gears now, but I don't see why we (the players) can't coin the app term for levels. After all, most are complete departures from the original game, and shouldn't be considered merely 'levels'. Great idea. Great call! You are right. We could also drive the App term in our levels, but I do really hope that Tarsier and Sony understand how App has become the term that most people (none gamers in waiting included) understand and throw around to make themselves sound cool. this is more important than people would imagine. I want LBPVita to become 'street wise'. From now on I'm going to make a concerted effort to call everyones creations Apps and I really, truly hope that people embrace this and understand why. In fact I'm going to start the push here and now. Check my sig  and you've also got to remember that if Sony get Gaikai up and running in the next year, people will be able to play those FREE Aps on Xperia phones, pads and laptops. I'm not saying that WILL happen but it's certainly possible | 2012-08-05 18:58:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| YEEES! we shall start a revolution of LBP VITA! MUAHAHAHAHA everyone shall know its name and power! VITA SHALL RULE THE WORLD! | 2012-08-05 20:55:00 Author: ConanUltimate Posts: 104 |
| They must advertise it in commercials! Mario gets advertised in commercials, so why can't lbp? Even make a Vita+LBP bundle... | 2012-08-05 21:05:00 Author: unc92sax  Posts: 928 |
| We start by constantly calling games Apps on this forum and hopefully it spreads to other forums. Like I keep saying, don't underestimate the power of perception and after all, that's exactly what they are and they are all FREE to play. | 2012-08-05 21:10:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| isn't lbp vita huge already? we all are just dieing for it already. if you read some comments on lbp vita videos in youtube they actully bought a vita just for lbp.im sure lots of us did the same too. | 2012-08-06 00:16:00 Author: Sunbunny23  Posts: 995 |
| they actully bought a vita just for lbp.im sure lots of us did the same too. That's what I'm going to do. Hopefully they have a LPB Vita bundle with the game and system, otherwise it will probably be a winter holiday purchase for me. I'm really hoping for a bundle, I'm not confident I could wait an extra 3 months | 2012-08-06 00:49:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| isn't lbp vita huge already? we all are just dieing for it already. if you read some comments on lbp vita videos in youtube they actully bought a vita just for lbp.im sure lots of us did the same too. What you are doing here is making the same mistake most people make on the internet. You are confusing yourself with the average consumer. Those that talk about Apps outnumbers internet users by a HUGE margin and it's these that are driving the mobile market. Unless Sony manage to infiltrate their numbers, Vita and therefore LBPVita will only ever be a niche market. By promoting LBPVita as an App store and advertising it to those that play games on phones, pads and laptops, you grow the LBPVita interest beyond the tiny userbase that we are and into the HUGE userbase that is the general public. Fashion is key here and using the fashionable words that those people relate to is the biggest part of the battle. If you asked these millions of people if they'd played an App, they would respond with a positive because they want to look 'cool' and 'knowledgeable'. If on the other hand you asked those same people if they'd played a game, they would turn off because that word only makes them feel 'uncool' and 'childish'. remember, we are the minority. The majority of on the go gamers play games on their phones. We need to capture at least some of that market and if it's a matter of simply adopting the terms associated with that market then what's the problem. Sony still to this day do not understand this. | 2012-08-06 00:51:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I could definitely see this being a good marketing ploy to consumers that already own the Vita, but not one to convince people to buy both the system and the game when their phones/music players already have the app function. People are still likely going to see LBP as a somewhat kiddy concept. I like where Tarsier went with the storyline, making it somewhat more grim, but LBP is still first and foremost a kid-friendly game. That alone will scare off quite a number of people. If I did not already have experience playing LBP, I may have dismissed it as something outside my demographic. What most people tend to miss is that you can completely ignore sackperson while making a level, and still make something extraordinary. As much as we all love sackperson, it's a symbol that pushes away the hardcore gamers and young adult demographics. There are obviously some exceptions, but this seems probable. Then there's the purchase of the Vita system itself. At $250 (a mark-up by greedy distributors  ), it's a fairly significant purchase to most, many of which already have app capable devices. This leads me to...The purpose of the Vita, afaik, 'is' to fill that niche market of hardcore mobile gamers that just can't make do with apps from non-dedicated devices. Spreading the concept that levels are essentially 'apps' is good advertising to the Vita owners, but will likely not have much sway with everyone else. The Vita doesn't offer telecommunication (afaik), so it can't replace people's phones. It's also somewhat bulky, preventing it from being carried everywhere in typical casual attire. This limits it's useability, since people can easily fit either a phone (which does calls/games/music), or a phone and music player (same range of functions). Fitting the Vita in that mix only really applies to a relatively small audience, the hardcore mobile gamers. I'm not going to deny that this won't have any success, because I think it will, but it won't be as grand as I think you hope it to be. Forgive my pessimism, I'd still like to see LBPV as a massive success, but from experience (namely playing MAG) these kinds of talks tend to result in disappointment. | 2012-08-06 01:19:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| What you are doing here is making the same mistake most people make on the internet. You are confusing yourself with the average consumer. Those that talk about Apps outnumbers internet users by a HUGE margin and it's these that are driving the mobile market. Unless Sony manage to infiltrate their numbers, Vita and therefore LBPVita will only ever be a niche market. By promoting LBPVita as an App store and advertising it to those that play games on phones, pads and laptops, you grow the LBPVita interest beyond the tiny userbase that we are and into the HUGE userbase that is the general public. Fashion is key here and using the fashionable words that those people relate to is the biggest part of the battle. If you asked these millions of people if they'd played an App, they would respond with a positive because they want to look 'cool' and 'knowledgeable'. If on the other hand you asked those same people if they'd played a game, they would turn off because that word only makes them feel 'uncool' and 'childish'. remember, we are the minority. The majority of on the go gamers play games on their phones. We need to capture at least some of that market and if it's a matter of simply adopting the terms associated with that market then what's the problem. Sony still to this day do not understand this. But LBP is simply NOT an appstore. Apps are famous because there reachable to pretty much anyone with a smart-phone (which is pretty much everyone) Its not so reachable to buy an expansive device for one purpose,then buying a specific game for it,so you could have what the "TV ad said"...And beside that,LBP is simply not an appstore,sure,people create pretty amazing stuff,but people DON'T create apps in LBP,It will weird and false statement if a TV ad tells me "experience millions of hand-made apps" the levels created in LBP can be disguise as apps,but it will simply not be the same,and unlocking your phone and clicking an app is a lot more easier then opening a game,waiting for it load(20-30 seconds) going to your downloaded levels,and clicking an "app" and waiting for it to load a few seconds. the whole "app" thing is probably gonna be a pretty big gimmick for LBP Vita,i can see a lot of levels like "alarm clock app" etc... They will never be able to advertise LBPV as an appstore,people will still look at it as a game. And it will NEVER become a global wanted and known thing like the iphone or the appstore,because it's simply not in that category,it's a gaming device.Apps are to help you with your life,like managing online stuff,bank stuff,coupons,and a lot of other stuff that usually involves interaction with other stuff ,This is simply not possible in a level of LBP,Or, apps can be fun little/big games,or other sort of fun entertaining apps(this are actually probably more famous then the other kind of apps),But this is already what LBP is,So why change it's name? | 2012-08-06 01:54:00 Author: ythyth  Posts: 400 |
lbp is play,create,share. not Buy cause of apps. if you can call angry birds or any free/cheap apps great which would kill battery 10 times quicker then fine by me. if there is more app people than internet users then why would they go to a game console if they got what they wanted? next thing is cool pages ruin again but from "apps". sony makes GAME consoles for a reason. another thing is that the first trailer of lbp vita is it's for you to make your "Handheld Arcade" and apps are not a arcade. let's not forget lbp amazing levels. (not 90% counting cool pages) that's the charm of lbp community. It wouldn't suprise me if the first community level and next million levels haves angry birds if you guys are going to consider apps would be great for lbp. im not saying all apps are bad but it's just not lbp. pfft... you guys with your phones or ipods.  also @GribbleGrunger doesn't the amount of app people more than internet users make app people average? | 2012-08-06 02:21:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| Do you know how many apps you can buy for $300? No one is buying a Vita to play LBP if they aren't already familliar with it. Anyone who bought a Vita already will buy LBP because it's better than using the Vita to keep papers from blowing off your desk. The Vita is a niche semi-portable gaming device, it will never be a huge success, and sadly LBPV's fate is tied to the hardware. Doesn't mean that the Vita can't do ok (doubt it will do as well as the PSP) but let's not kid ourselves and pretend it's something it's not. If I tried telling my friends LBP levels were apps they's think I was a loon. I don't know anyone with a Vita, and my friends are gamers many of whom have PSPs... | 2012-08-06 03:09:00 Author: fullofwin  Posts: 1214 |
| - ... 4, 3, 2, 1, KO! Well, I think the onslaught of critical comments killed this . Sorry Gribble.I still think apps have a place within LBP. Example: You brought your PSV with you to the hospital, waiting for someone (and let's assume they have wifi allowing you to connect to PSN). You want to play a level, but don't want to be bogged down by long intro's, stories, or instructions. You go search for 'Apps' (or something similar), and 'bam', a massive list of quick games to play. I suppose the 'short' label serves the same function, but tbh, I feel that label has a negative connotation to it. (Edit: I suppose it's also worth asking: Are there even level labels in LBP Vita, or are they using some different method?) | 2012-08-06 04:10:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| - ... 4, 3, 2, 1, KO! Well, I think the onslaught of critical comments killed this . Sorry Gribble.I still think apps have a place within LBP. Example: You brought your PSV with you to the hospital, waiting for someone (and let's assume they have wifi allowing you to connect to PSN). You want to play a level, but don't want to be bogged down by long intro's, stories, or instructions. You go search for 'Apps' (or something similar), and 'bam', a massive list of quick games to play. I suppose the 'short' label serves the same function, but tbh, I feel that label has a negative connotation to it. (Edit: I suppose it's also worth asking: Are there even level labels in LBP Vita, or are they using some different method?) There's labels,There's all the search options LBP2 has. | 2012-08-06 04:14:00 Author: ythyth Posts: 400 |
| It's about increasing Vita sales with LBPVita (something that is going to happen anyway) but if it was advertised as a game/development tool/Free App store then those sales would be higher. I'm saying that given time and exposure and more people using App to describe there levels and Sony advertising them as Apps, it would garner interest beyond the normal demographic and maybe find favour with some of those 'phone' people. I'm not even going to go into Gaikai and what that could mean for the LBP community and those free Apps. If I gave each one of you a thimble to move an ocean you'd all look at me as if I was crazy. And of course because you think that and not realise the proposition, you would be right It's exactly the same as my other idea that people said wouldn't make a difference. I noted that more and more people were complaining that LBP2 isn't what it used to be and that the community wasn't as good. the main reason was the cool pages. I started a thread called: 'make those lists people' and it was met with muted response. So how many people took that oh so difficult step of adding there lists to there sig on this forum? ONE! ME! Just a solitary thimble Is it really that difficult to change the perceptions of those that consider LBP a kiddy game? Clearly people expect others to do that. Is it really that difficult to make sure there are plenty of great levels to play on this site by adding your favourite list to your sig? Clearly people expect others to do that. | 2012-08-06 12:09:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| It's about increasing Vita sales with LBPVita (something that is going to happen anyway) but if it was advertised as a game/development tool/Free App store then those sales would be higher. Because everyone secretly wants to be an app developer? If LBPV is a dev kit and the user created content are apps, you still have to convince people to shell out $300 for another piece of hardware, memory card, and game. The Vita is a device that won't fit in your pocket, has a 2.5 hour battery life, and you still have to carry around your phone! The people that would be interested in LBPV for apps are perfectly happy with the thousands of apps already available for their smart phones (there are plenty of decent ones if you want a 5 minute diversion). The Vita is a hand-held console experience. Real games, real buttons, real analog sticks, etc. That's what differentiates the Vita from smart phones, and it's that distinction that needs to be emphasized...direct comparisons to smart phones can only hurt the Vita. Is it really that difficult to change the perceptions of those that consider LBP a kiddy game? And can't we do that by accurately describing the user created content and capabilities of the editor? Gribble's Friend: Hey, Gribs, what's this LBPV you keep going on about?isn?t that some kiddie game? Gribble: It's a dev kit and app store! Gribble's Friend: Neat-o, I'll take 5. | 2012-08-06 13:37:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| So you think that every single one of the 2.5 million Vita owners are going to buy LBPVita? I can guarantee that if LBPVita was advertised in the way I suggest that more would buy it than if it was advertised as simply a game. Gribble's Friend: Hey, Gribs, what's this LBPV you keep going on about…isn’t that some kiddie game? Gribble: It's a dev kit and app store! Gribble's Friend: Neat-o, I'll take 5. Why do people always have to exaggerate a point people make in order to make what they say sound stupid. It's a sad sad human condition. I'm going to say something else now that you can make look stupid: When Gaikai is integrated into Sony products, there is absolutely no reason that your 'Apps' can't be played on every available device, even Apple Phones. You won't need to own LBPVita to play an App created with it, but you WILL have to own LBPVita to make those Apps. | 2012-08-06 13:52:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| LBP isn't a kiddy game when I have Create Mode in my hands... Just look at my Signature. | 2012-08-06 13:56:00 Author: unc92sax Posts: 928 |
| While I appreciate the thought of increasing the size of the LBP community, personally, I find it unfair to consumers to call levels "apps" as some others have pointed out. The main problem for me is that apps are not limited to games. I'm sure a bunch of you out there could make a pretty accurate replica of Angry Birds or other apps, but I find it hard to believe that I can ever turn to LBP Vita when I'm trying to figure out a tip on a restaurant bill or using GPS to get to a location. While the possibilities for games and fun in LBP are seemingly endless, calling levels "apps" implies having more useful applications which I believe cannot be produced in the realm of LBP and is therefore too deceiving to your "average" person. Edit: I like the term they used in one of the original trailers: a handheld/handmade arcade. | 2012-08-06 15:25:00 Author: metsfan1025 Posts: 181 |
| ^^ speaks the truth LOL and that's what i was trying to say kinda. | 2012-08-06 15:37:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| I can guarantee that if LBPVita was advertised in the way I suggest that more would buy it than if it was advertised as simply a game. No, you can't guarentee that... When Gaikai is integrated into Sony products, there is absolutely no reason that your 'Apps' can't be played on every available device, even Apple Phones. You won't need to own LBPVita to play an App created with it, but you WILL have to own LBPVita to make those Apps. I don't see this happening (LBPV on i-phones). LBPV content is designed for the Vita with its dual sticks, buttons, and rear touch pad, etc. Sure cloud gaming would get the data on the screen...and certain levels could be fine with virtual on-screen controls...but if the level wasn't designed for it, it might obscure important stuff, etc. You can eliminate the console...but not the controller. Also...why couldn't I create levels if I have the ability to play them? You'd just need cloud saves. One more reason not to buy a Vita. | 2012-08-06 15:44:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| I just relized something. lbpv is not made for apps. it's to expand your games. using buttons and rear is new. don't just use touch screen...there in no point on fighting to deny this stuff really. LBP speaks to me and other people. LBP is a game for games. not a app for apps. a if lbp wants to be a game then let it shall be a game!!! calling levels "apps" just sounds like the vita is weak. the true power is in the original trailer of handheld arcades. now that's power. I don't think lbp and the creators of lbp would say this would be great to make apps.what's the point of playing an app on vita if you can do that on your phone? apps an games are 2 completly different things. apps last 2 seconds. while games can be long as you want really. i would like to see some fighter games (NO BIGBOTS) and play on the go since there is only 1 and OK fighter on vita now. apps is just no skill for gamers. you just use your thumb to play...... final thing to point out. VITA GAMES: uses buttons and anything you want for vita like rear touch and using other features of vita. APPS: touch screen. which sounds more fun? Times up. games win. original trailer speaks the truth of lbp vita other than play,create,share is handheld arcade. | 2012-08-06 16:12:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| It's not a matter of whether you think they're Apps or not or whether you play Apps on phones. Why can't you see? This is so weird. If I show someone my Vita they think it's a PSP. When I offer to show people games, they're not interested. THESE ARE NORMAL PEOPLE AND NOT LIKE US. But if I asked them if they'd seen my latest App, they're ears would prick up and they would be interested, because all they talk about is Apps on this and Apps on that. It's the fashion currency for those that want to feel part of something. Apple know it but clearly Sopny and all their fans don't. Argue all you want. Give me reason after reason why it's not a good idea, but the truth is that 'App' is the name 2 thirds of the planet use for games. Talk to everyone or talk to a few. It's your choice | 2012-08-06 20:37:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| no. normal people STAY on their phones. reason why is not a good idea? it's not lbp charm. nothing about apps will be a true lbp game. ps vita is a gaming conole. if sony wanted their games and own consoles to be app friendly then they should have thought of that. i would stick with sony experia play rather than a vita for "apps". I rather see a game that make your own apps than using lbpv. what's the point of making your own app if you go make a REAL app for phones. (which you did) most apps like clocks and internet uses would not work anyway for lbpv. only things you would see is angry birds... | 2012-08-06 20:53:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| no. normal people STAY on their phones. reason why is not a good idea? it's not lbp charm. nothing about apps will be a true lbp game. ps vita is a gaming conole. if sony wanted their games and own consoles to be app friendly then they should have thought of that. i would stick with sony experia play rather than a vita for "apps". I rather see a game that make your own apps than using lbpv. what's the point of making your own app if you go make a REAL app for phones. (which you did) most apps like clocks and internet uses would not work anyway for lbpv. only things you would see is angry birds... But they would be exactly the same no matter what they were called. Why can't you see that? It's just the word 'App'. Three simple letters that might encourage someone to actually take a look at your Vita or LBPVita. It's not difficult to understand. Everytime I see a post on N4G about LPVita, I try to find a reason to post a link to an article or thread in this forum. Why? Because even if only one person out of all the people that read that post came here it's still one more person who comes here. I made a thread with as many tutorials as I could find. Why? because if someone is searching for tutorials on the net they might just end up coming to this forum. I put my favourites list in my sig. Why? Because maybe someone will get more plays and a bigger audience because of it. Every little thing that opens the door a little wider is worth doing, regardless of how much wider it makes that door. When I take my Vita on the go and show someone the Apps on it they will be interested because that is the word they associate with 'cool'. Why? Because even if only one person in a thousand then buys a Vita and LBPVita because of it, it's a good thing. | 2012-08-06 21:04:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| my final words for this thread: if you think apps would be great for lbp then you don't know lbp as well as you think. Lbp is strong enough without app people. you can't predict lbp of its thing "all about apps" that you are so interested in. we know we can make apps but they don't need to brag it allowed since they proved their point. apps is nothing compared to real gaming. you only think they would do this cause you are deeply in love with these apps. great you created an app and all but anyone can do that really without lbpv. apps with lbp don't mix well. VITA IS A FREAKEN GAME CONSOLE!!! NOT A PHONE!!!! LBP IS A GAME FOR GAMES GET THAT THROUGH MAN. lololololol "NORMAL" PEOPLE DON'T CARE FOR GAMING CONSOLES. it sounds more of fanboy war than what you think of lbpv with "apps". apple/phone companies people start going fanboys against vita all of a sudden...now that's just a big no no. sony v microsoft v nintendo and apple v microsoft is already enough. | 2012-08-06 21:15:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| Boy oh boy. Never mind... It's just a word and a perception. More people will look if it's called an App than if it's called a game. We don't have to talk to people like us. They already know about LBP and what it does. EVERYONE who has never played LBP before just thinks its an editing tool for platformers. get out and about on the net more and investigate. App means anything from a game to a calender to an alarm clock. That word suits LBP better than any other word out there because the creations are so diverse. Do you think that thousands of people will emulate Phone Apps? I'm willing to bet that more than half do. LBPVita is a FREE App store with potentially a million Apps in it's first year. If you and others can't see how very simple what I'm saying is, then there's very little I can do about that. Jees lol, I take my shoes and socks off for a little paddle and end up wading through treacle | 2012-08-06 21:25:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| It's just a word and a perception. More people will look if it's called an App than if it's called a game. I'm pretty sure most people understand that a large section of the app store is for "games??I don't think they are confused by the word ?game? and I don't think ?app? has the magic connotations you attribute to it. Just who exactly are these knuckle dragging Neanderthals that can?t fathom what a game is? I?ll bet if I asked little Billy what Angry Birds is?he?d answer game, not app. If I show someone my Vita they think it's a PSP. When I offer to show people games, they're not interested. THESE ARE NORMAL PEOPLE AND NOT LIKE US. But if I asked them if they'd seen my latest App, they're ears would prick up and they would be interested, Sure, but then they?ll be disappointed to see it's a just a game and be even more underwhelmed when you explain that you (or the creator) just used an in-game editor. Now try showing them one of your microchips and see how quickly their eyes glaze over. Normal people don't get creating for LBP?they don't understand what goes into it and they don't understand why anyone would invest hours upon hours doing it. These people won?t buy a Vita no matter what word you use to describe the user created content. If they have zero interest in games, they won?t make the investment in money or time?but I?ll bet little Billy would want to see your new game. LBPVita is a FREE App store with potentially a million Apps in it's first year. ITS NOT FREE?IT WILL COST YOU $300. If you?re into creating, great?but for Joe Schmoe with a smart-phone who wants to knock over a few green pigs while waiting for the bus, his phone is perfect and he doesn?t need anything else. Why can't you see that? You shared your idea?not everyone believes it will have the impact you do. Where?s your market research? What?s Sony?s plan to advertise LBPV and how much will your plan increase market share over theirs? You?re making some pretty wild claims with nothing concrete to back it up and getting frustrated with people that see the situation differently. I bought a Vita because I wanted to play real games on the go?Sony needs to market to and appeal to people like me because that?s what the hardware was designed for. If that?s not what they are going to do then they shouldn?t have made the Vita and should have hired Tarsier to create LBP for iOS and Android. | 2012-08-06 22:50:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Where’s your market research? I think the only thing i remember was that the creators of this were saying apps instead of games. (this does not count as my real last words though i said my last words at the last post of mine here.) | 2012-08-06 23:10:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
Wow, some strong feelings on both sides about this one....  Personally I'm with Gribble. The vast majority of non-gamers I know refer to everything as apps. I've tried explaining to these people the concept of LittleBigPlanet as a game in which you can make levels, but this is largely an exercise in futility. Once I break it down a bit and explain how I could make something like Angry Birds, they will say "Ohhhhh, so you can make your own apps. Neat!" I can see both sides of the argument here. Hard to say if there is a "right" or "wrong", but I don't think Gribble is wrong about this. I'm just sayin'.  With that said, are these people likely to go out and buy a Vita and a copy of LBPV? No. Not in any way, never. | 2012-08-06 23:48:00 Author: Taffey  Posts: 3187 |
| [QUOTE=Taffey;1031773]With that said, are these people likely to go out and buy a Vita and a copy of LBPV? No. Not in any way, never.[QUOTE] So succinct! That's the only point I wanted to make, I'm otta here! | 2012-08-07 01:03:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| With that said, are these people likely to go out and buy a Vita and a copy of LBPV? No. Not in any way, never. So succinct! That's the only point I wanted to make, I'm otta here! Exactly! I agree with that last statement by Taff, and even the little frowny face at the end! The fact of the matter is, the Vita costs a lot of money. While we all want to see LBP expand its horizons, calling levels "apps," no matter how great the idea, will never be enough to encourage buying the console. Now, if levels (I'm going to call them that for the sake of clarity here) were able to be downloaded on iOS and Android devices for free, that would change everything. They would have to create some way of making people pay as well, unfortunately, and not to mention the controls being adapted to work on a touch screen. Ok, that last part will never happen, but it's fun to think about. | 2012-08-07 02:08:00 Author: WoodburyRaider  Posts: 1651 |
| Taffey sees the point but you pick up on the point that suited you. As I said earlier: do you think that everyone with a Vita will buy LBPVita? The answer is of course, NO. Therefore advertising the levels as Apps may just sway a few people to think of LBPVita differently. Instead of thinking of it as a kids game with a level editor, they may be intrigued to find out what 'Apps' are on it. 'Apps' as a word is no where near as polarising as 'games'. Now as far as selling Vitas are concerned, as I also said, It could help sell some. I never said there would be a stampede through the store door because of the word 'App'. If Sony advertise LBPVita as a development tool to make Apps and that those Apps will be free, then LBPVita will sell more and garner more interest. I'm more than 50% sure of that. People are obsessed with Apps, even people who've already bought a Vita. Imagine if you showed someone an App that was a copy of an App already out and told them it was free. Don't you think they'd be interested? And we all know there are going to be clones galore. Take that frogger game for instance. And remember, we are not just talking about small levels now, we have the memoriser which will enable us to add more to the game as we go along. It would actually be nice if Tarsier introduced a 'heads Up' feature to inform people that a level has been republished or updated, but that's another discussion. | 2012-08-07 02:10:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| Taffey sees the point but you pick up on the point that suited you. As I said earlier: do you think that everyone with a Vita will buy LBPVita? The answer is of course, NO. Therefore advertising the levels as Apps may just sway a few people to think of LBPVita differently. Instead of thinking of it as a kids game with a level editor, they may be intrigued to find out what 'Apps' are on it. 'Apps' as a word is no where near as polarising as 'games'. Now as far as selling Vitas are concerned, as I also said, It could help sell some. I never said there would be a stampede through the store door because of the word 'App'. If Sony advertise LBPVita as a development tool to make Apps and that those Apps will be free, then LBPVita will sell more and garner more interest. I'm more than 50% sure of that. People are obsessed with Apps, even people who've already bought a Vita. Imagine if you showed someone an App that was a copy of an App already out and told them it was free. Don't you think they'd be interested? And we all know there are going to be clones galore. Take that frogger game for instance. And remember, we are not just talking about small levels now, we have the memoriser which will enable us to add more to the game as we go along. It would actually be nice if Tarsier introduced a 'heads Up' feature to inform people that a level has been republished or updated, but that's another discussion. Your right,Not all vita users are gonna get LBP,But it's still one of the most wanted vita games,The thing is,If the kind of "app" you could make in LBP are only games,why bother calling them apps? there games...And i can see a lot of people being mad when they buy a vita and LBP and go and try to "build they're app" and it's not really what they thought it is,When the game "throws" you in create mode and shows you all the tutorials,I thing most people are gonna be like "how the hell am i supposed to build an app with this?!" All you can build in LBP is stuff for people to play(not completely true,but you get what I'm saying) and when people hear the word "app" they'll think they're gonna get a variety of "apps" stuff like email,banks,web stuff,entertainment apps,they don't think there gonna get a very advanced platform game,in which some people may upload some levels that would look like "apps" i mean,I'm pretty sure the most common type of levels there gonna run in to are levels where you simply control sackboy,and that's just NOT an app.Sure,people think apps are "cool" as you said earlier,But apps can be ANYTHING,they can help you with pretty much EVERYTHING,while in LBP your stuck in your LBP "environment" with no way of escaping to stuff that are actually useful...It will be false advertising,just because something is "in" does not mean we have to take advantage of it and lie,iPhones are popular,should we start calling the vita an iPhone? maybe then more people would buy it? also if LBP would attract someone by calling levels "apps" who would buy a console for a game he just discovered? when he already got all hes real apps right next to him... | 2012-08-07 02:51:00 Author: ythyth Posts: 400 |
| It will be false advertising,just because something is "in" does not mean we have to take advantage of it and lie,iPhones are popular,should we start calling the vita an iPhone? Jeees... One thing that drives me absolutely crazy is when people can't compartmentalise and bring in all sorts of irrelevant information instead of discussing the premise. App is a word that more people associate with games on the go than any other word. What's the problem here? What's the problem calling LBPvita an App creator and an App store? Is it really that contentious? We will see thousands upon thousands of clones of phone games (bought from an App store and discussed by people who call them Apps), So why not hitch a ride on that train? Sony can't advertise to save their lives. But perhaps the community can do some of the work | 2012-08-08 20:49:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I think this thread should die now since it's basically a war here. here is a plan. people who wants to make levels/games can make a level/game. people who wants to make apps make a app. nuff said. I'll go start the project "life begins" 20 level series when i and the team gets lbpv and gribble can make an app when he gets it. problem solved. now let this thread die since it really destroyed with 3 full pages in the begining of this thread is a war. | 2012-08-08 21:19:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| What's the problem calling LBPvita an App creator and an App store? LBPV is an app. Levels are not apps themselves because you cannot launch them directly, you need to start the LBPV app first. LBPV is not a store. You buy things from stores...you can purchase costumes and stuff in-game...but you can't purchase apps. If we're not going to use standard terminology it gets pretty difficult to communicate. Now excuse me, I need to run home to feed my garden leopard (house cat). * This thread is fine, everyone has remained civil...and of course you don't have to keep reading it. I'm personally fascinated by how Gribble's mind functions and I get bored waiting for stuff to compile. | 2012-08-08 22:26:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Jeees... One thing that drives me absolutely crazy is when people can't compartmentalise and bring in all sorts of irrelevant information instead of discussing the premise. App is a word that more people associate with games on the go than any other word. What's the problem here? What's the problem calling LBPvita an App creator and an App store? Is it really that contentious? We will see thousands upon thousands of clones of phone games (bought from an App store and discussed by people who call them Apps), So why not hitch a ride on that train? Sony can't advertise to save their lives. But perhaps the community can do some of the work So just because it may be the most famous LBPV kind of level means we have to call all the levels apps? I mean,bomb survival is a famous kind of level,should we start calling levels in LBP bomb survival's? Anyway,calling it an "app creator" sounds horrible,creating something that looks like an app is not in the "nature" of LBP,What i mean to say by that is for example someone is gonna get LBPV because he wants to make an app,he starts create mode and thinks "how to hell am i supposed to make an "app" with this?" you have to manipulate the level,it isn't a natural app building environment,but advertising it as an app creator will make people think it is. | 2012-08-08 22:38:00 Author: ythyth Posts: 400 |
| This thread is fine, everyone has remained civil...and of course you don't have to keep reading it.Yes, this is very true - agreed. So far everyone has remained fairly nice to one another, if not a bit opinionated, but hey - it's good discussion. So just because it may be the most famous LBPV kind of level means we have to call all the levels apps? I mean,bomb survival is a famous kind of level,should we start calling levels in LBP bomb survival's? GribbleGrunger's original point was far, far simpler than the topic of this discussion has become. The particular point referenced in this quote has been beat to death (in fact I can hear the steam coming out of Gribble's ears right now) so let's allow this part of the conversation to fade away peacefully and quietly. | 2012-08-09 00:14:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187 |
| Jeees... App is a word that more people associate with games on the go than any other word. Well, not really... at least in the US. The "there's an app for that" phrase that gets tossed around is in regards to the thousands of specialized little programs that are definitely not games. I think most people just refer to them as "games" on their phone. (again in the US). What's the problem here? What's the problem calling LBPvita an App creator and an App store? Is it really that contentious? Not contentious, but I think that it's more of a semantics thing. An app implies that it's something that can be used independently of the game itself, which might be confusing from a marketing perspective. That said, I actually did like your previous idea about LBP levels being available from the PSN store independent of the actual game...just the part about people selling them for real money seemed a little off. Besides that, I love LBP's totally unique planet metaphor with levels marked as badges. For me, if they ever replaced that with some kind of generic app store interface, it might cheapen the overall experience. | 2012-08-09 00:43:00 Author: Chazprime  Posts: 587 |
| LOL! It's certainly not a popular idea... I am actually quite surprised by the comments so far, even if some of them have veered wildly from the original premise, I didn't expect this level of disagreement. Anyway, no hard feelings to anyone who sparked my retaliatory synapse, this is just one aspect of our personality and it certainly won't manifest itself in other conversations in other threads. Besides that, I love LBP's totally unique planet metaphor with levels marked as badges. For me, if they ever replaced that with some kind of generic app store interface, it might cheapen the overall experience. My suggestion would only change the way it's advertised and how we could title our levels/games/Apps once we get out grubby little fingers on LBPVita. It's actually quite ironic when you think about it. When LBP was first released we used to call them 'Levels' because it was too limited to create anything close to perfect that wasn't of that genre. Now we call them 'Games' because LBP2 allows a more professional approach to create... My suggestion is just to introduce a generic term that has been popularised by the media and adopted by those that play bite sized games on the go. See how that fits pretty neatly? oh, and please add a Time/Date chip that links in with the Vita time and date! I want to add seasonal secrets to my Apps... | 2012-08-09 00:47:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I think bundling LBP with cheap tat like Angry Birds is selling it a bit short isn't it? I'm not sure I'd want LBP to become 'fashionable' either tbh. Gaming's at it's best when shared with a small and passionate community. | 2012-08-09 09:31:00 Author: Kiminski  Posts: 545 |
| I think bundling LBP with cheap tat like Angry Birds is selling it a bit short isn't it? You seem to have a very old fashioned view of Apps. Some are actually quite good and others are stunning. If Tappling was called an App would it suddenly make that game bad? I'm not sure I'd want LBP to become 'fashionable' either tbh. Gaming's at it's best when shared with a small and passionate community. I doubt LBPVita would 'actually' become fashionable itself. I said the word 'App' is fashionable. Out of interest, how did you perceive the post you replied to. I find it really odd how every single thing I'm posting is being skewed or misinterpreted. I just haven't worked out yet who are the leaders and who are the followers... | 2012-08-09 15:07:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I think I'm going to have to disagree with this idea as well. I don't think it would help LBP sales by confusing the customers which is what slapping on a generic, all be it popular, term for mobile applications would do. Sure it would get them in the door but once they are greeted with the LBP intro they would be like, "WHaaa's this?" Maybe if they redesigned the game entirely to come off more like an OS with hubs to get to the "apps" it would make more sense. But that would remove all the charm from the game. Plus I think the first thing that would enter most peoples minds would be, "Is this for iOS or Android?" I understand where your coming from but I just don't think it will work out. | 2012-08-09 17:11:00 Author: Xenon  Posts: 306 |
| I think I'm going to have to disagree with this idea as well. I don't think it would help LBP sales by confusing the customers which is what slapping on a generic, all be it popular, term for mobile applications would do. Sure it would get them in the door but once they are greeted with the LBP intro they would be like, "WHaaa's this?" Maybe if they redesigned the game entirely to come off more like an OS with hubs to get to the "apps" it would make more sense. But that would remove the all the charm from the game. Plus I think the first thing that would enter most peoples minds would be, "Is this for iOS or Android?" I understand where your coming from but I just don't think it will work out. I was thinking along those lines last night as well. I think it's because while a game is an app, an app is not necessarily a game - which could definitely cause confusion for customers. But imagine if LBP could create generic apps? Take Gribblegrungers time/date gadget idea, wire it into a note in front of a sackbot acting out something with a movie camera. If you could publish that as an app, you'd have a nice clock widget that you could run outside of the game...might be an interesting way to expand the horizons of LBP. | 2012-08-09 17:20:00 Author: Chazprime Posts: 587 |
| Well now, isn't this interesting. IGN just posted this LBPV preview video: Could LittleBigPlanet Vita Be the Best LBP Ever? (http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/08/09/could-littlebigplanet-vita-be-the-best-lbp-ever?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ign%2Fps-vita-videos+%28IGN+PS+Vita+Videos%29) Scroll to the 1:45 minute mark of the video and prepare to tell GribbleGrunger that he may be onto something. | 2012-08-09 17:33:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187 |
| Scroll to the 1:45 minute mark of the video and prepare to tell GribbleGrunger that he may be onto something. Gribble is obviously Greg Miller, that's the only explanation that makes sense! So the memorizer is called a savinator now?* The wait for release day is killing me! | 2012-08-09 19:49:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Gribble is obviously Greg Miller, that's the only explanation that makes sense! OF COURSE. It's so clear now... I don't know why that didn't occur to me sooner. You are absolutely right! So the memorizer is called a savinator now?Ah, you caught that too eh? That's news to me... Either it's a goof or they changed the name. We might need to light the Syroc Beacon to get a straight answer. The wait for release day is killing me!OMG YES *looks at calendar* Doo de doo de doo de doo....... *twiddles thumbs* *looks at calendar again* AGH It's still just August!  | 2012-08-09 19:53:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187 |
| Gribble is obviously Greg Miller, that's the only explanation that makes sense! So the memorizer is called a savinator now? * The wait for release day is killing me! Or... Greg Miller reads LBPC forums. Either way it was very timely. Congrats Gribble it appears you have a fan. I also agree the wait is maddening. The good news is that will give me time to come up with a plan to fake my own kidnapping so I can have a few weeks to dedicate to it. | 2012-08-09 20:24:00 Author: Xenon Posts: 306 |
| When I first skimmed through the video, my first impression was that it was a comparison between phone apps and LPBV. Some of those levels certainly looked like some of the things I've got on my phone (the ball drop 'app' particularly so). Gribble, I'm sorry I ever doubted you, however little that may have been There's nothing wrong with calling levels as apps. When I inevitably end up showing one of my levels to a non-PS friend, I'm probably going to call it an app, though I may not be particularly conscious of the change. It's just a more recognized term. If, instead, you constantly reference 'levels', anyone only vaguely familiar with LBP will probably assume some sort of platforming game. The use of the 'app' term broadens the impression given to people. What's possible in LBP strikes me as a (somewhat limited) set of dev tools. The contrast between apps and levels, as mentioned by several previous posters, doesn't quite fit with me. The majority of my apps are games, the likes of which I could see being made in LBPV, and probably better as well. If you buy an app called "Cart Racing", you're not going to expect it to browse the internet or determine your position on Earth. I don't believe any misconception may be made by calling levels apps. If someone buys LBPV to access these 'tool' apps, they probably shouldn't have bought a Vita, and instead put the money towards some sort of education. ~ I'm just hoping they make a bundled package at a discount when it launches, otherwise it'll probably be another 3 months waiting http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/images/smilies/1/frown.gif | 2012-08-09 20:34:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| Ahem... Thanks, Taffey. I think you'll see more and more previews/reviews of this game saying much the same. Why bother paying for a certain App on your phone when you can either download it for free or create it yourself I haven't minded one little bit being called out over this in this thread, but calling me an IGN employee? That's just beyond the pale oh, and about the 48 second mark it looks as if you can play video within the game. look at the score board while you are playing sackboy | 2012-08-09 21:23:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| oh, and about the 48 second mark it looks as if you can play video within the game. look at the score board while you are playing sackboy That could have been one of the tutorial videos. If not though, that's spectacular. Videos can be faked within the game, but having an actual video recording feature would make it hundreds of times more effective. Eg: Tutorials for complex creations would be much easier to make. | 2012-08-09 23:02:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| I haven't minded one little bit being called out over this in this thread, but calling me an IGN employee? That's just beyond the pale Don't bite the hand that agrees with you! Maybe you should edit the Wikipedia entry for LBPV? I hear whatever you type there becomes reality. | 2012-08-09 23:09:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| I'm just going to put my original post here so that others that have just ambled into this thread don't get lead astray by some of the 'tangent' posts that followed. Some of them were inciteful and thought provoking and in another thread I would have ran with them, but the premise was simple and not as confusing as it seemed: Anyone who has followed this industry closely for many years will tell you the two things that guarantee success is branding and perception. If the branding is spot on for the time and a perception is promoted heavily, then a product can literally fly off the shelves. We gamers are in general a solitary lot and view our industry from that insular position, overlooking the fact that the average consumer doesn't even know that games we love exist. These consumers know only of those things that are fashionable to know about. Apple have successfully plugged into that market and there is no reason why LBPVita can't do exactly the same. What we, Tarsier and Sony need to understand and embrace is the fact that the majority of people out there don't even talk in terms of games; they talk in terms of 'Apps'. With that in mind, Tarsier and Sony MUST advertise the online community of LBPVita as an 'Apps' store. The word should be constantly associated with the community in order for it to filter through to the average person in the street. If this is done successful then LBPVita could become something of a phenomena. People often buy really stupid games on phones just because they're 99p. Imagine if Tarsier and Sony could speak to these people. LBPVita is an 'App' store in waiting with experiences and standards that easily match (if not exceed) the quality of some of those phone games. This is an opportunity for branding that Sony and Tarsier simply can't afford to miss out on. So please, when you advertise this fantastic game, make sure that you push the word 'App' HARD, along with the other important word FREE. We don't need advertising aimed at us here because we already now how wonderful this game is going to be, so aim those adverts at the 'trendies' and the 'fashion freaks' of this world and then LBPVita could and probably would become the phenomena it deserves to be. Please, don't underestimate this very short and simple word. It has power out there in the bigger world. LittleBigApps please | 2012-08-09 23:25:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| So the memorizer is called a savinator now? Ah, you caught that too eh? That's news to me... Either it's a goof or they changed the name. We might need to light the Syroc Beacon to get a straight answer. It's still called Memoriser. There are already more than enough -inators in LBP. | 2012-08-10 08:02:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| I'm just going to put my original post here so that others that have just ambled into this thread don't get lead astray by some of the 'tangent' posts that followed.:I'm not sure I agree that anyone in this thread has been lead. Is there really any need to be so condescending? The whole point of discussion is to point out both sides of the fence, not to write off any differing of opinion. As for the video, I'm still not convinced I'm afraid. Highlighting the similarities of LBPV to an App store is one thing, but for Sony to actually push it as such is a bit different. Most people will react just as we have in this thread. I doubt LBPVita would 'actually' become fashionable itself. I said the word 'App' is fashionable. Out of interest, how did you perceive the post you replied to. Well, LBPVita becoming 'huge' would mean it was fashionable, no? My point being, a server full of throwaway levels made by 'trendies' and 'fashion freaks' would be a very bad thing. As would the inevitable targeted DLC. It's bad enough that stickers and costumes get churned out for the kids without throwing Joe Bloggs into the mix. - We'll leave that for another day though. | 2012-08-10 10:03:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545 |
| Well, LBPVita becoming 'huge' would mean it was fashionable, no? No, not in the slightest. It doesn't follow that something that is hugely successful immediately becomes fashionable. Once again this is an example of skewing the premise in order to justify discrediting it. My point being, a server full of throwaway levels made by 'trendies' and 'fashion freaks' would be a very bad thing. As would the inevitable targeted DLC. It's bad enough that stickers and costumes get churned out for the kids without throwing Joe Bloggs into the mix. - We'll leave that for another day though. You see, this is another perfect example of what I'm saying. You first go on to say that you don't think anyone has gone off at a tangent and then go off on a HUGE tangent of your own. In order to discredit what I've said you suggest to anyone that is reading your post that I said to make 'throwaway levels' made by 'trendies' and 'fashion freaks'. That is a gross misinterpretation of what I'm saying. I said that the levels would be exactly the same as they are now but they would be promoted as Apps. Of course, because of the features of the Vita, more games that are on phones and pads could be accurately cloned (and they WILL). That is not stifling creativity, it is broadening it. I never said that the levels would be made by 'trendies' or 'fashion freaks' but rather that they exist and it wouldn't hurt anything to speak to them too. It's just the word 'App' as opposed to 'game'. I'm about to post something and it's demonstrative of what I'm saying and not meant to be taken literally. It's a perception that is REAL and happening at this very moment: 'Apps are for grownups and games are for kids.' what is incredible is that this was posted just after I reposted the OP so that people don't get lead astray by subsequent posts. Did it work? Clearly not | 2012-08-10 18:02:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| You first go on to say that you don't think anyone has gone off at a tangent and then go off on a HUGE tangent of your own. ...blah blah blah. Three lines directly related to what you're suggesting? lol Since the subject's obviously not up for discussion, I think I'll leave this thread on planet GribbleGrunger. You just carry on enforcing your opinion while I cringe at your signature. | 2012-08-10 19:07:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545 |
| 'Apps are for grownups and games are for kids.' Silly Gribble, Trix are for kids...not games! I can't believe an adult of average intelligence would make a distinction between an App that is a game and something that was just called a game. It's one thing to say something is "like" something else, it's another matter entirely to say they are exactly the same. That's why it's fine for you/Greg to make the comparison...but it would be wrong for Sony to do so. Since we are really only talking about targeting Vita owners that are on the fence about buying LBPV...and given that a picture is worth a thousand words isn't it better just to show what the game is about and what it can do as well as having a demo on PSN than putting so much stock in the power of a non-descriptive abbreviation like App? Watching Greg's video showing game footage was more interesting than hearing his inane claims about 40 hour rpgs, etc. I'm sticking to my belief that Apps are stand-alone programs that run on an OS and that while LBPV is a game App for the Vita it's user created content is not. | 2012-08-10 19:09:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| oh brother... | 2012-08-10 21:32:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| Deep breaths everyone... Think calm thoughts. | 2012-08-10 21:56:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187 |
| So why do people think that the word App wouldn't help promote LBPVita to the general public? so far we have: It would be confusing to some because some Apps are not games. Good point that! | 2012-08-10 22:05:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| apps are not games. it's clocks, game guides, and 2 minute minigames. LOL | 2012-08-10 22:08:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| So why do people think that the word App wouldn't help promote LBPVita to the general public? so far we have: It would be confusing to some because some Apps are not games. Good point that! We've been through this already...the general public won't buy a piece of expensive hardware that is redundant with their smart phone...yet can't replace the phone or even fit in a pocket. That makes the issue moot. I like how you continue to ignore both this and the fact that levels aren't stand-alone applications. We're just going in circles now. Yes the game executable is an application...but until levels compile into stand-alone executables they are not apps. I am a technical person and I will not tell people an orange is really an apple...but if you want to make misleading comparsions, that is your right, just don't expect others to show the same lack of respect for human intelligence. App vs. game, it's semantics juggling and a case of perfume on the pig (to the general public the Vita is the pig). | 2012-08-10 22:47:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| apps are not games. it's clocks, game guides, and 2 minute minigames. LOL http://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/ios-games/id6014?mt=8, thousands of apps that are games. https://play.google.com/store/apps/category/GAME, several thousand more apps that are games. The time you play it depends on multiple factors. I've played some apps for several hours total time. You have to consider that the 'general public' don't really care much for semantics. They're only looking for games to play, and recognize the term 'app' as something which they can usually play. If they hear that LBPV is a player-made app store for games, they recognize that it means there is effectively an infinite amount of games (factoring in the time it takes to play a game) that they can play from just this one game. There is even an app called "101-in-1 Games (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nordcurrent.Games101&hl=en)", which is really just a (dramatically) less capable version of LBPV to put it bluntly. Any successful app store has a 'games' section. LBPV is just that section without any others. If anything, it'd be better to continue to call LBPV a game, and just refer to the community levels as the app store, even though it's all free within the game. I should reiterate that my purposes for calling levels apps is just to convey the correct impression of what's possible within the game. For the things I'm planning on creating, 'app' would be a much more accurate term than 'level'. Within the community I'll still refer to them as levels, simply out of habit and the now obviously controversial misconception that calling them apps would cause. | 2012-08-10 23:19:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| Any successful app store has a 'games' section. LBPV is just that section without any others. If anything, it'd be better to continue to call LBPV a game, and just refer to the community levels as the app store, even though it's all free within the game. Except that it's not a store, and the items within are not apps. It's one thing for IGN to compare LBPV to an app store, for Sony to market the game that way is not only going to cause confusion with their actual Vita app marketing (http://uk.playstation.com/psvita/apps/), it might give the general public false expectations of what LBPV really is. Has no one heard of truth in advertising? | 2012-08-10 23:37:00 Author: Chazprime Posts: 587 |
| Doesn't it bother you guys that the Vita has an app store already, it's called PSN. I plan to buy an app called Little Big Planet from it next month. I'd like to hear you rationalize this nested app store concept to Joe Average... | 2012-08-10 23:45:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Except that it's not a store, and the items within are not apps. Well, not at the moment, but that's what this debate is about: rebranding and perception. It's one thing for IGN to compare LBPV to an app store, for Sony to market the game that way is not only going to cause confusion with their actual Vita app marketing (http://uk.playstation.com/psvita/apps/), it might give the general public false expectations of what LBPV really is. Has no one heard of truth in advertising? What is this mythical confusion that you speak of? Instead of them saying 'download games from the community for free', they'd just say, 'download Apps from the community for free'. That wouldn't confuse anyone who had ever played LBP games. It might just prick a few ears that had never considered LBP as a serious game changer though... which it is and Sony have demonstrated that by buying MM. They see the potential of LBP. All they have to do now is push home why they invested so heavily in this franchise. LBPVita is the MOST important version of the game so far. Not just because it allows us to create even better games with even more variety, but because it plugs directly into the general public's psyche; If it's advertised and promoted correctly as an App creator. If not, then expect it to sell a lot less than LBP2 which sold a lot less than LBP1. This is why Sony need to hire someone who knows how to advertise. You have to KNOW the audience you are talking to, understand their language and talk to them directly in that language. If that is seen as lying then who the heck cares? MS built a whole empire on that concept One other thing that amused me earlier was someone calling the IGN out for saying 40 hour RPG as if that alone discredited his premise. Was it equally stupid for MM to claim an 80 hour RPG? I still think a lot of people can't see what's coming. This is being designed with everything the community has been asking for, with all the necessary changes to make ANY genre possible. You really can't see that Sony have got something here that could revolutionize the concept of what an App Store is? Really? | 2012-08-11 01:30:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| What is this mythical confusion that you speak of? Well, if the Vita already has proper apps and a proper app store, calling LBPV an app store might be a little confusing to users...especially when said apps don't show up on the home screen. And like it or not, there are still a lot of people in the "general public" that think of things like Google Maps and Twitter as apps - not games. I guess the reason I find this whole idea a little strange is because I've yet to hear a good reason to muddy the waters with this said "rebranding". Like I said above, it's not a problem for a writer to draw comparisons to the game and an app store, but it's quite another for Sony to radically change their marketing to rebrand this game...truth in advertising...kind of a big thing in the retail trade. ...but because it plugs directly into the general public's psyche... I gotta ask: was there alchohol involved in the formulation of that statement? | 2012-08-11 01:52:00 Author: Chazprime Posts: 587 |
| I say that Sony should team up with Androind. It would help Vita sales and Android sales. It would also solve the lack of Apps for PS Vita. Problem solved? LBP can be LBP, and Android Apps can be Android Apps. | 2012-08-11 03:19:00 Author: unc92sax Posts: 928 |
| I say that Sony should team up with Androind. that's like saying microsoft should team up with nintendo. | 2012-08-11 03:24:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| Sorry, I don't really understand how simply calling my new level an app is fallacious. If I open an app browser, and search for an application of the system, is that any different than opening LBP and looking for a level? I could interchange the two sentences and still achieve the same general meaning. Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with calling them levels, I just believe that simply referring to a level as an app changes how it is perceived. Like Gribble has countless times tried to explain, this change in perception could be what leads to more sales. I'm not so optimistic about the prospects of this change, as I was quick to point out on the first page, but any impact is does have on customers could really only be positive. You're not going to drive potential buyers away by explaining the them they're purchasing a game....which also offers an endless source of new content through an in-game app store. It should attract buyers rather than dissuade them. There are even some levels on LBP that could be sold as apps. Could they be sold as 'levels'? No. Referring to them as apps changes nothing other than how people react to it. That's the whole point here. People are used to the term, 'app store', even though most use it for free things. Does that prevent it from being a store? No. Except that it's not a store, and the items within are not apps. LBP offers things to buy through its 'store', which is just an extension of the game, much like how free content is an extension of an app store. The two are effectively very similar, enough to warrant a general name that covers both of them. Since the app store is much more recognized, it would be what is used, as we have tried to explain. Am I lying if I say that "LBP is like an app store filled with player-made apps, all for free"? I don't believe so. Doesn't it bother you guys that the Vita has an app store already, it's called PSN. Haven't any of you seen multiple different app store versions on other systems? It's not that strange to have one official app store, and another with a different UI/search method (even if they are less efficient/usable). LBPV is close enough to being another app store that it's just easier to say it is one rather then explain how it serves most of the same purposes yet isn't one. The LBPV 'app store' would be a store of good free games. If someone had enough money to purchase the Vita and LBPV, they'd no doubt be capable of understanding that what LBPV offers only covers games. Also, what problem is there even if there is a misconception? They still have everything outside LBPV to accomplish whatever tasks that can't be done within the game. If someone is upset that LBPV doesn't offer A restaurant finder, they'll rejoice for the fact that they now instead have an incredible game. What Sony could do is market LBPV as a full-fledged game which also offers an endless source of new content, much like an app store, but where everything is free. (EDIT: Sorry for such a long post, I'm not a very concise writer :/) | 2012-08-11 04:12:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136 |
| I still think a lot of people can't see what's coming. This is being designed with everything the community has been asking for, with all the necessary changes to make ANY genre possible. You really can't see that Sony have got something here that could revolutionize the concept of what an App Store is? Really? Ummm...it's basically LBP2 portable with a way to store some state information (which isn't to say that's not amazing). But you can't make any genre possible. As for everything the community wants...how about a HUD designer, full 3D (or least background creation), better sackbot integration, being able to draw stickers, gesture/shape recognition, etc.? You didn't even get a chance to try the beta did you Gribble...maybe you should play the game before making such outrageous claims? Yes, I mocked Mr. Miller for the 40 hour rpg comment because it was silly and un-realistic...that is hardly discrediting the whole thing. The MM 80 hour claim is twice as silly. | 2012-08-11 04:18:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Ummm...it's basically LBP2 portable with a way to store some state information (which isn't to say that's not amazing). But you can't make any genre possible. As for everything the community wants...how about a HUD designer, full 3D (or least background creation), better sackbot integration, being able to draw stickers, gesture/shape recognition, etc.? You didn't even get a chance to try the beta did you Gribble...maybe you should play the game before making such outrageous claims? Yes, I mocked Mr. Miller for the 40 hour rpg comment because it was silly and un-realistic...that is hardly discrediting the whole thing. The MM 80 hour claim is twice as silly. Well ok, I concede that not all genres will be possible with LBPVita. FPS are still never going to be anything but foolish mock ups, even if the camera glitch is still present in LBPVita (which I doubt). What I mean is that almost all typical games that millions and millions of people play on a daily basis, on their phones and bought from App stores, will look equally as good -- if not better -- when someone makes the LBPvita version. I have seen games from App stores that look terrible and I've seen games from App stores that look remarkable, but the general standard is easily achievable with LBPVita, and who know, when you look at 'Tappling', perhaps some of those top notch games are not out of the question either. Imagine if Tarsier release a drawing tool rather like the MOVE pack in LBP2. Imagine if you could draw your own backgrounds without the nonsense of having to draw virtually in the air as you do with MOVE. Just think on that for a moment. Why does Sony always struggle to sell their handhelds? What was the directive that Sony gave to devs three years ago when support for PSP was drying up? They wanted devs to change the way they approached the handheld and instead of treating it like a console in your pocket, Sony asked them to make games with bite sized sections for gaming on the go Now I think I'm right in saying that the Vita is a handheld and that it's a system for on the go. So doesn't it follow that a lot of people are going to instinctively make those types of games? So, here we have a place to go online and download games for free, the majority of them 10 to 15 minutes long... sounds like an App store to me You know what the kicker is though? The fact that they have an Arcade section in the latest preview build. That shows clearly that they want to make a distinction between App like games and games themselves. They just haven't realised that there's one word that can cover both. App | 2012-08-11 04:45:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| why not a tarsier employee settle this so this thread can die? basically a group vs gribble. gribble is not going to stop. i feel like everyone of us had been saying the same thing over and over again. 6 complete pages of gribble vs the world is going on XD. why am i still here at the thread? im bored. duh. LOL. this is like the most active thread i've seen in lbpc in just a few days by the same people. im sure i'll grab the popcorn of gribble vs the world movie. | 2012-08-11 05:12:00 Author: Sunbunny23 Posts: 995 |
| What was the directive that Sony gave to devs three years ago when support for PSP was drying up? They wanted devs to change the way they approached the handheld and instead of treating it like a console in your pocket, Sony asked them to make games with bite sized sections for gaming on the go What are you playing on your Vita?!? Almost everything is a port or variant of a PS3 game...so is LBPV for that matter... | 2012-08-11 06:11:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| What are you playing on your Vita?!? Almost everything is a port or variant of a PS3 game...so is LBPV for that matter... That WAS their directive. At the moment they are struggling for 3rd party support which is why, perhaps, there isn't so many exclusives for the Vita. But what can Sony do? Clearly, integration between the Vita and the PS3 is going to be important going forward, so that leaves them and us in a bit of a quandary. You can't have so many exclusives if the criteria is to pursue that integration. Take Sound Shapes for instance. That was going to be an exclusive for the Vita but clearly Sony wanted it on the PS3 too... We can complain that there are no exclusives for the Vita or we can rejoice in the fact that you get both version for one price. It's NOT about exclusivity, it's about making games that are designed with shorter sections to cater for the gamer on the go. Abyss broke the Uncharted franchise down into shorter sections, as did Resistance and Socom. It just so happens that LBP falls perfectly into that criteria anyway. Which is clearly why a lot of people are already saying LBP was meant for a handheld. | 2012-08-11 14:58:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I'm happy with console games on the Vita, as long as pause works you don't need bite size content. You do need exclusives. | 2012-08-11 15:19:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| I'm happy with console games on the Vita, as long as pause works you don't need bite size content. You do need exclusives. The exclusives are coming. You could argue that Uncharted, Socom, Resistance or Assassins creed are not new IPs but they ARE exclusive versions for the Vita. Sony will want to push that integration, like I said. Nintendo are close to release of the Wiiu and Sony won't want to play second fiddle to them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that 16GB PS3 bundled with a Vita. A MOVE pack is also very likely. Getting back to the matter at hand, previews are often speaking in terms of App like games, so clearly it's not too controversial to suggest Sony should go that extra mile and promote them as such. The developers have clearly been having fun with it too - alongside the main Story mode, you can unlock The Arcade - a number of non-Sackboy mini-games that would work well as iPhone apps. One game, Tapling, was a bit of a cross between Limbo and Loco Roco in design, with the aim being to tap the screen to guide a blob to the end of the level. http://spong.com/feature/10110753/Preview-LittleBigPlanet-Vita The Arcade is a world in the game that contains five unique mini games. Here, one of them was open to me; Tapling. Tapling is like a mix between World of Goo, Super Meat Boy and Limbo, where you must shoot a black globule across levels and save white blobs from their cages whilst razor blades and evil nasties try to dispose of you. It contains eight levels of simple gold. This game could easily be its own iOS app and have garnered a following. http://www.godisageek.com/2012/08/littlebigplanet-vita-preview/ Just drop 'Arcade' and call them 'Apps'. Come on Tarsier, it makes sense | 2012-08-11 15:27:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
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