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Pocket Moon Podcast Episode 23

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Episode 23 - The Mechanically Separated Podcast

Episode 23 of Pocket Moon Podcast is now live! This episode finds Tom and I both in Chicago, and we are joined by The Master of Zen, JeffCu28, and Mrs. Poo.

On this episode you'll hear us chat about LBP Karting, funny travel stories, what music levels should be like, freemium games, courtesy flushes, and most importantly, food.



Here are timestamps so that you can skip to specific parts of the podcast if you want to:

-- Timeline info --
Overall podcast length: 145 minutes


News: 11:35

Forum Soup: 36:45

The Good, the Bad, and the Pathetic: 1:22:30

General Gaming 1:28:40

Q & A: 1:52:15


Here are links to all the things that we chat about:

LBPK Beta started on July 10 (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/07/06/littlebigplanet-karting-beta-dates-announced-san-diego-game-jam-recap/)

LBPC spotlight 88 (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=71783-Community-Spotlight-Episode-88)

Summer Sports costume pack (http://www.wiki.lbpcentral.com/Summer_Sports_Costume_Pack)

LittleBigContests (http://littlebigcontests.tumblr.com/)

LittleBigPlanet Central administration change (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=71995-Administration-Transition)

LittleBigLand administration change (http://www.littlebigland.com/forum/showthread.php/17486-Stepping-Down-(Sort-of))

Weekly Planetarium Discussion: Creator's block (http://www.littlebigplanetarium.com/topic/4786-weekly-planetarium-discussion-creator-block/)

LittleBigLand master hub level (http://lbp.me/v/be9b2j)

RickRock777's "Pocket Moon Podcast" logo sticker (http://lbp.me/v/cpj161)

The Bongo Room (http://www.thebongoroom.com/)

Garrett popcorn (http://www.garrettpopcorn.com)

Portillo's (http://www.portillos.com/portillos/)		2012-07-15 23:07:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

First!
Y U NO get mrs. poo (That sounds weird when you say that, as if you're missing poo :C) on more? She's an excellent guest.
Got to about 48 minutes in, and lovin' it so far as usual :-D		2012-07-16 00:04:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

I'm downloading it. :32012-07-16 00:07:00

Author:
ConverseFox
Posts: 2333

First!
Y U NO get mrs. poo (That sounds weird when you say that, as if you're missing poo :C) on more? She's an excellent guest.
Got to about 48 minutes in, and lovin' it so far as usual :-DThe best part about having her around is that she messes with John a lot. Saves me quite a bit of trouble because then I don't have to do it. 		2012-07-16 00:17:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

I didin't know i could click on thos link's :o...You guys talk about some cool stuff.2012-07-16 00:57:00

Author:
Lbphart3
Posts: 813

Oh, and Afp and Ms.afp, sound remarkably similar. I'm beginning to think afp is just pretending to have a wife, who may well be a giant puppet, and he's just an amazing ventriliquest. I don't know, I'm tired.2012-07-16 01:01:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

@Valeview: Usually when we record Mrs. Poo is as work, which is why we can't have her most of the time. She had a lot of fun being on if you couldn't tell, and her and Tom did do an excellent job picking on me

As for us sounding alike, I will neither confirm or deny the ventriliquest comment


@Cory: Hope you enjoy it!


@Lbphart: Hmmm... perhaps we need to mention that in the next episode just to remind people that there are links down there. Thanks for mentioning it! Glad you enjoy our discussed topics :-D		2012-07-16 01:53:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

sweet! Downloading. Question for Taffey. I just got through playing "A New Hop" for like the I don't know how many times now. Have you ever considered trying to recreate the Star Bores Saga in LBP2?2012-07-16 02:48:00

Author:
biorogue
Posts: 8424

Excited to hear Tom discuss the answer to this question bio I actually just chatted with him about something closely related to this in Chicago so I know he has something to say 2012-07-16 03:11:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

sweet! Downloading. Question for Taffey. I just got through playing "A New Hop" for like the I don't know how many times now. Have you ever considered trying to recreate the Star Bores Saga in LBP2?Haha Good to know those levels are still getting a little love.

Yeah, I've definitely thought about recreating them - it would be a fun little project. I haven't quite decided if I should just recreate them exactly as-is or try to do something extra. I also have some ideas for doing Space Corps stuff on the Vita.

Thanks (again!) for checking out my levels. 		2012-07-16 06:46:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

Hi, Poo and Taffey!

Will listen you new podcast a little bit latter.


Haha Good to know those levels are still getting a little love.

Yeah, I've definitely thought about recreating them - it would be a fun little project. I haven't quite decided if I should just recreate them exactly as-is or try to do something extra. I also have some ideas for doing Space Corps stuff on the Vita.

Thanks (again!) for checking out my levels.

Taffey, will wait for new Space Corps on vita

From Russia with love,
Domik12		2012-07-16 09:09:00

Author:
Domik12
Posts: 838

here we GO!!! I need some stress relief so I hope it's chaotic... well that's sort of a redundant statement really

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/trombax/trombax0902/trombax090200009/4391600-detail-view-of-a-terminal-sign-in-an-airport.jpg

looks like an S to me


One thing I find really odd (and TELLING) about the LBPK beta is the inability for sackboy to walk around in the level. Before anyone jumps on me and thinks that's what I'm asking for then WHOOOOO your horses! I'm thinking of the ramifications of this. Ask yourself why it's not there and why when you drop down into the level you are instantly transported into a Kart.

It seems to me that LBPK is avoiding this deliberately... yes, I said deliberately! Why? Why not include it?
Because they wouldn't want it to compete with LBP3 when it comes out next year, THAT'S WHY!		2012-07-16 12:48:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

@Domik: We hope you enjoy the show :-) And I am right there with you looking forward to Tom's next level!


@GribbleGrunger: LOL, excellent pic for the podcast!

As for your thoughts on LBP3, it seems like you may be onto something 		2012-07-16 18:37:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Best podcast so far! Mrs Poo has worked on helping Mr Poo to smile in the morning? please... this is a family show2012-07-17 00:55:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Glad to hear that you enjoyed the podcast :-) LOL @ the waking up in the morning comment 2012-07-17 15:47:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Woah, plethora of news in this one! I'll give it a listen as soon as I have time 2012-07-17 18:02:00

Author:
anoken
Posts: 1654

Looking forward to hearing what you think :-)2012-07-18 15:56:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

I'm having a hectic week, so I had to listen to the podcast in episodes (between episodes), but the one thing that struck me -- and the reason I think it was one of the best, if not THE best -- was a sense of genuine friendship and familiarity. I'm not saying that wasn't present before, but it was certainly more palpable in this episode. No doubt that was helped by Ms Poo (surely she resents that name?). It also had a lazy day feel that had me throwing back into the me-shaped dent in my armchair and listening intently. I'd like to hear from Mrs Poo again, I liked her a lot2012-07-18 18:13:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

I think that things have gotten a bit lax in the PMP offices lately. I think it may be due to the increase in the amount of ?special? episodes/editions/podcasts that you?ve had lately. PMP had gotten to a point where it felt like a good mix of news, community discussion, guest discussion and errata and it wasn?t too long or too short.

Lately, however, the PMP has been feeling like long run-on sentences. Taking the intro to this latest episode as an example it felt like at least ten minutes or so of just the three of you chatting, reliving the day?s events or in-joking about the Chicago trip before you even started up the actual podcast proper.

The LBPK gamejam podcast was a very long one with a whole lot of great questions but also an awful lot of chatting, reliving day?s events and in-joking. Bits like that and the ever increasing food arguments and discussion bits are starting feel like they are now major segments of the podcast rather than short asides here and there before you get back to the regularly scheduled podcast.

I?m great with this type of off-the-wall, anecdotal content in the podcast but when the ratio of gabby in-jokes and food errata to game/community/guest/LBP discussion gets to a certain point the podcast starts feeling a bit aimless or bloated.

It is absolutely no problem if this is what you intend out of the podcast as it is your product. It is just about setting and/or meeting expectations and I've gotten used to the more gaming focus of older editions.

I suspect that once you get back into the previous format that this may not be an issue but it seems to have come up more than once in the last few podcasts. But I wanted to raise the subject

-----

It is fun to hear the dreaded Freemium vs Up-front cost model discussion finally come up and like was mentioned in the podcast it wasn?t particularly dreadful. Tom has solid opinions on the subject and John feels they are fairly reasonable opinions and can continue to peacefully co-exist in the same podcast.

I agree with Tom on this. I like the Freemium model in that it allows me to see the game, get a feel for it without needing to buy it but I hate the way it is moving into the model of milking the player continuously. If I pay for the game I want to play it, not end up with a recurring monthly fee in order to play the game as it was intended.

I also think that you can make so much more profit as a developer if you allow players to pay as much as they want and also create a game that is good enough. So it can be a very profitable business model.

As an aside I?m not looking exactly for conflict in the discussions just for variety. Non-homogenous viewpoints, back and forth, highs and lows and interesting characters and stories. In other words, ?I am here. Entertain me!?

-----

It can be hard to nail down the character dynamic for PMP. A popular routine used is the straight man and the funny man, the feed and the foil, the boke and tsukkomi. It is the dynamic that moves things back and forth, gets the audience involved with the presentation, offers humour as well as rhythm. The role can change back and forth but having two of the same type for long enough detracts from the formula.

It seems that generally Tom is the dominant personality but John normally drives the format and segments and keeps the show on track. John?s self-deprecations often lowers him to the role of foil but Tom is normally right there with stories of his own that keep him at the same level. It seems that the podcast is either all serious or all comedy and not an even mix.

Just a thought I had over the last few editions.

-----

It is just odd to me when the significant other of a ?Famous Person? gets referred to as Ms. ?Famous Person? so it always felt off to refer to AFP?s wife as Ms Poo. So Jessica was fun to have on the podcast to offer up an viewpoint from someone who isn?t in the thick of the LBP community, presumably who offers up the support role to the burned out LBP fanatic.

She doesn?t have as much in the way of back and forth conversation on things except to put in a few comments here and there and answer when directly addressed. This was more like the recurring guest role with Jeff being more actively involved in his segment by comparison but the whole podcast seemed a bit topsy-turvy.

-----

Thanks for the warm words about my contribution to the podcast. I do know that I?m nowhere near as Awesome as either Tom or John. See AFP and I used to/currently play Scramble with Friends. I can win against him about 1 in 10 times, sometimes more if he is having a bad day. But normally his score is at least 10 ? 20% higher than mine not counting the times it is embarrassingly higher.

Therefore John is at least 20% more Awesome than me and that isn?t even taking into account LBP which would bump him up another zero or two. Then if you compare John and Tom it is easy to note that Tom has a Sackie and John doesn?t so that already makes him at least 50% more Awesome than John.

So now you know why I?m the one writing feedback and you two are the ones with the Awesome Sauce pin. Also I think that pin effectively nullifies the ban on the word Awesome and you should just say what you want and have fun on the podcast.

-----

Hearts vs. Plays vs. Yays

This is a tricky one and is very relative in my mind.

The way that lbp.me works generally is that if a player played my level five times, even if it was once a month ago, twice last week and then again today, it shows me their name, the total amount of plays and their highest score out of those five plays.

Without a bit of sleuthing and deduction I may not ever know if that player played the level five times only because they couldn?t finish it the first four time or if they are regular plays.

I value feedback the most and positive feedback above that so Yays and Hearts give me that more than play count does. (Obviously the question doesn?t include the reviews/comments bit.) Hearts are different for each player as has been said so I prefer Yays over Hearts in general cases as that normally means they enjoyed the game enough that it was better than ordinary.

If I know why a particular person hearts, and they do it for more than just bookmarking purposes then I like Hearts the best. Hearts are the early form of lists and can mean that a person really likes the level and wants others to see it as well which is the best of the three if that is actually the case.

-----

Cave vs. Tree

I picked cave on this one just because I was thinking that I can always get more space in a cave whereas in a tree you are very limited in how big your house can be. Unless you start getting into a tree house that spans multiple trees you can fairly easily just expand your cave house by picking a large cave system to begin with or just use a sledgehammer and pick to open up the area.

Plus with trees you may have the constant movement, shifting of the tree itself which has impacts on the type of construction you can use in the house. There are storms and rain, expansion and growth of the tree, heating and cooling to consider and the tree?s own lifecycle to deal with if it breaks or gets too old.

You just need to heat and light the cave and you already have a basic living area. Plus with a little money and a good location you could have the Batcave. Who wouldn?t want to live in the Batcave?		2012-07-19 00:38:00

Author:
Trindall
Posts: 297

@GribbleGrunger: We had a lot of fun hanging out all day on Saturday, so that really helped us to go into the podcast in a joking manner. I imagine that if we had recorded it Saturday morning than it would have been leaning toward awkward for Mrs. Poo since she had never met Tom. But by the end of the day the 8 hour cookie discussion helped them to get to know eachother

It's good to hear that you enjoyed having Mrs. Poo on the show. I think she had a really good time! I will do my best to have her on again as a guest sometime. I'm sure she will be on the next live one if she is there


@Trindall: There isn't much else in the world that helps to improve the podcast than some nice semi-painful feedback from Trindall I really appreciate your thoughts!

The format has been a bit different for the last two podcasts, but your assumption as to why that was is correct. The Karting Game Jam was a bit harder to put together compared to the Vita one since I was not there. This led to a lot more describing. In all honesty, we both thought people would enjoy this aspect because I would be asking questions just like the listener wanted to ask (hopefully) since I was not there, and also, the stories were being told me, so I could ask questions about those as well since I was hearing them for the first time just like the listener was.

We don't have as good of an excuse for the Chicago podcast. Things were more hectic for us because not only were we both meeting up in Chicago, but Tom was recently back from the Karting Game Jame plus I was trying to finish up launching LittleBigHub, so I had been spending a ridiculous amount of time trying to clean it up and get it submitted (and I am still waiting for Apple to review it). This led to an agenda that was thrown together a lot more at the last minute than any previous podcast. We had both planned a bit, but not nearly as much as usual.

So, with that aside, I can tell you that we are already getting episode 24's agenda together, and we won't be recording until next week, so we are falling back into the old way of getting a much more defined plan together. Sorry that the last two podcasts have been harder to listen to for you.


It's good to hear that you enjoyed the Freemium conversation. We have been holding off on that for a long time, so it was nice to get to do that, and even better that we got to have the conversation in person. In the end, we both seemed to agree, which was sort of what I expected though I was not sure.


I enjoyed your bit about the character dynamic. I am a very melancholy person, so I do tend to make fun of myself at every turn which would probably not make me come across as the dominant personality here :-) My melancholy-ness does make me very detail oriented and I love to have a schedule so that is probably why I tend to be the one who tries to move us forward in those rare cases that we actually move forward to stay on track


Glad to hear that you enjoyed having Mrs. Poo on the podcast. I wasn't sure how people would like it since she hasn't really ever created, and doesn't play all that much (though she has played through the LBP1 and LBP2 story modes with me). You are right that we treated Jeff as the new guest even though Mrs. Poo should have been. To be honest, I have no idea why we did that It hadn't even really occurred to me until now that we did. Perhaps we will have to have her on again and have her interact a bit more

LOL at your talk about awesomeness. How dare you bring Sackies into the conversation!!! And if winning Scramble With Friends is an indication of Awesomeness, then everyone who uses Facebook to play is about 1000x more awesome than either of us because there is some sort of advantage for Facebook players. I think I have never beaten a random facebook player in all of my time playing, and I have played them many, many, many times.

Your Hearts vs. Plays vs. Yays answer was very good, and I wish you had been there to say it!

So, for your cave vs. tree answer, if you could go Swiss Family Robinson style and start building from tree to tree with bridges, and therefore didn't have a maximum size limitation (and I imagine the bridge method might be easier than beating on the cave to make it bigger ) would you like the tree more?


Thanks for the feedback Trindall!		2012-07-19 16:42:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

It isn't my intention for my feedback to be painful though I know that it can be very painful to hear criticism on your creative work. I'm just thinking about things like character dynamic, presentation and other errata because you normally have the content and other major items all worked out and running smoothly.

I don't have any real complaints so I have more time to roll around these smaller bits in my head so don't get the idea that I'm not having a good time. I should keep reminding my self that the two of you are likely not planning on going professional and quit your day jobs to head into podcasting. Working on PMP brand identity and other things are probably not things that you really need to worry about.

-----

Yeah using the Sackies was the easy way out but I'm not above being cheap and lazy. All joking aside there are people like me who write and talk a lot but don't do and then people like you who talk a lot but then do things and that right there it what makes the two of you more awesome than many out there myself included.

-----

About the tree house Robinson Family style. That was a great dream of mine to have when I was younger. I made quite enough tree houses of my own as a result. I'm just thinking about it more practically now and I think that even a strong, multi-tree house would still shift and move in the elements.

It'd be like living on a boat with the movement, the creaking of wood and oddly shaped and connected rooms. If it wasn't my home for live I'd love nothing more than that type of tree house.

Caves are very cool places, literally and figuratively for a lot of different reasons. I think that a long term living environment, I'm thinking 20+ years here, that is stable, secure and permanent would win out over the tree house scenario.

It is true that if you have a small cave then it is work to expand on it. But I'm thinking like the Mammoth caves in Kentucky, great place to go, lava tube caves, or the caves in Goonies are large, expansive and full of cool things like pirate treasure.

Living in the Bat cave with pirate treasure? Sign me up.		2012-07-20 17:23:00

Author:
Trindall
Posts: 297

I haven't had the time to listen... Sorry! I have a lot going on. >.>2012-07-21 06:44:00

Author:
ConverseFox
Posts: 2333

Hello Taffey, Hiya Poo. Long time listener, first time caller :-)

Played PMP #23 this evening as I made myself dinner, and enjoyed it as always. I do see what Trindall was getting at, above ? this episode certainly didn't feel as "meaty" as past episodes ? but it somehow didn't occur to me as something to be concerned about. I guess I was treating the episode as a Special Edition, kinda like the Vita GameJam or Karting podcasts, and so was prepared for content that was more relaxed, fly-on-the-wall, "let's just set up a microphone here and start talking" kind of thing.

(By the way ? if you'll forgive my talking about #22 in the thread for #23 ? I loved the bits in the LBP Karting Special where it was just John grilling Tom on the events of the day & what Tom had learned about the new game. John's precise, detailed questions, plus Tom's ability to communicate the new tools and mechanics with a surprising degree of clarity, all made for some fascinating interviews.)

Here's some stuff that occurred to me while listening to #23?


MR. AND MRS. POO

I, like Valeview, was struck by how similar John and Jessica sounded. My theory is that the universe is one giant LBP community level, and when the creator had finished making Poo, he got lazy and just clicked L3 to make a duplicate for Mrs. Poo. (He used the corner editor to make a few important changes on the duplicate, of course. Okay, this analogy is getting a bit weird so I'll stop now.)


FREEMIUM GAMING

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone mentioned my number one gripe with the movement towards freemium gaming: paid apps changing and becoming freemium apps.

To be clear, I have no problem at all with paying for a game and then later learning that it's gone free. If it's a game I like, then going free is only a good thing as far as I'm concerned ? first thing I do is email any friends who own an iOS device to tell them to grab the app.

No, what really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth is when I've paid for a game and the developer decides not just to make the game free but to make it freemium ? to change various aspects of the game (e.g. how content is unlocked, or how the player progresses through the game) so that players are gently nudged, or firmly ushered, towards in-app purchases. The way it usually works out, old players ? those who paid for the app ? are thrown a bunch of in-game currency as a form of compensation. But even that little sweetener disappears if you ever want to install the game on a new device ? or re-install the app fresh on your current device, for that matter.

This is an increasingly common practice on the App Store, and I'm puzzled as to why Apple permits it. Yes, I know, we're usually only talking about a dollar or so, but those dollars add up, goshdarnit!

The freemium flipside to that kind of shenanigans is something like Outwitters (http://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/outwitters/id432969074?mt=8) ? have you had a chance to check out this iOS strategy game yet? Using its default team, you can play the basic app forever without coughing up a cent, but if you like the game enough then you'll probably end up giving the devs $2.99 to unlock the game's two other teams (the IAP also gives you access to any new teams that might be introduced further down the line). This is a great arrangement for consumers ? I hope it works out well for the developers too.


PLAYS, YAYS, OR HEARTS?

I've never published a level, but as a player, I can say that the number of times I play a level rarely has much to do with how good I think it is. For example, on the PSP, I loved jackofcourse's stuff, and often played his levels several times. I remember one in particular, I was determined to get on the high score table, and played the level again and again and again until I made it to the top 10 leaderboard. My favourite PSP level, however, is jeffcu28's Zen ? and I only played that once!

It's apples and oranges: the kind of platforming-focused level that jackofcourse creates is the kind of level I'll want to replay so I can do better. While something like Zen, or a typical Poo or Taffey level, I experience more like a great short story: I'll finish the level, think "Wow! That was amazing!", sit back and replay in my imagination all my favourite bits from the level, and just think about it for a while. And then I might never play that level again!

(I think this might be one of the differences between a creator and a consumer. I love movies, but it would never occur to me, after watching a favourite movie, to hit play and immediately watch it all over again. I have to leave a year or two between viewings to be able to really enjoy it. Whereas I imagine that a film-maker could watch a favourite movie over and over again repeatedly, trying to understand how the director constructed a scene, analysing the smallest details, etc.)


DLC IDEA

I was tickled by Jessica and John's concept for a DLC item that would just put a bemused-looking Cloud wandering about any level you play. It gave me an idea for a similarly useless DLC item that I'd like to be able to buy?

Remember how, in LBP1, the Collector made a cameo appeareance in the background of many levels? Sometimes it was obvious, but occasionally it was more like an easter egg ? it took me a couple of plays of "The Meerkat Kingdom" before I noticed that one of the "lady" meerkats in the nightclub was actually the Collector in disguise! So here's my silly DLC idea: give Sony $2.99, and the Collector will be placed somewhere in every community level that you play. Sometimes he'll pop up in the background and steal a bit out of the level, at other times he'll be hiding away somewhere sneaky? What do you think? Okay, maybe it's just me?


QUESTIONS

I've a couple of questions to throw into the hat for upcoming podcasts :-)

Question No. 1: Is there any "hidden gem" from the PS3's back-catalogue that you feel deserves to be better known and that you would recommend to a new PS3 owner? (I'm thinking of PSN games in particular, but if there's a Blu-Ray title that jumps to mind, then I'll allow it!) For example, I'd never heard of the PSN title Rochard, but I'm having a whole lot of fun with it at the moment. It's not a perfect game ? I can understand why it doesn't receive the media attention that is given to, say, the work of thatgamecompany, or to some of the PixelJunk efforts ? but I'm enjoying it a great deal, and I'm very glad I decided to pick it up.

Question No. 2 is LBP-related: LAYERS ? YAY or BOO? After four years, four games, and millions of levels, what is the ultimate, official, authoritative, Pocket Moon verdict on LBP's introduction of layers to the platformer genre?* Were layers an interesting experiment? An unqualified success? An evolutionary mistake? Should layers be adopted by other developers of platform games? Did layers make possible something important in LBP? And contrariwise, can you think of anything that it's not possible to do or create in LBP because of layers? LAYERS: YAY or BOO?

*Have one of the Pocket Moon Podcast's interns check if it was, in fact, LBP that introduced multiple layers to the platformer genre.


...Okay, I'm finished vomitting text at you now :-) Keep up the good work, lads!		2012-07-21 16:51:00

Author:
Unknown User

@Trindall: Oh, Mammoth Cave Seeing as I am in Cincinnati, and have lived in mid to southern Ohio and Indiana my whole life, I have been to Mammoth Cave and if you let me pick that, I would take it over just about anywhere. You win :-D I was imagining a much smaller cave than the largest cave system in the world


@Cory: Looking forward to hearing what you think


@wizball: Wow, what a treat! Not only do we get to hear from a listener for the first time, but we get some detailed feedback!

It's good to hear that you enjoyed episode 23 for what it was. I agree with Trindall that if we kept up the loose format then it probably wouldn't make for a healthy podcast after a number of episodes, but this one was a bit more like you said, start recording and see what happens... Well... we had a bit more of a schedule than that

You had Mrs. Poo and me laughing at your theory that we are just slightly corner edited copies of eachother. Thank you for sharing your theory

The scenario you mentioned about Freemium games is a completely ridiculous one, though I know it is true. I experienced it with The Dark Meadow, which is an excellent Infinity Blade-like game, but it went free and they just passed a boar load of coins to the paying users. I was pretty disappointed about this for the very reason you mentioned. There are good ways to go free, and I understand that there is sometimes no choice since you need to find the best scenario to pay the bills, but it can still be disappointing and needs to be handled in the right way (The Dark Meadow was pretty much handled in the right way).

Wow, your Plays, Hearts, and Yay's points were really informative. I am always interested to hear from a player rather than a creator since I mainly deal with creators on the forums (though there are players I talk to as well from time to time). I like how you explain how you image a player plays a level compared to a creator. I hadn't given it much thought and you may be onto something!

I love your DLC idea! The only issue is, how do they figure where in each level to put him? Seems it would take some pretty crazy algorithm to figure out where to place him in a level since a level could be made in infinitely different ways. If it could be pulled off, though, it would be soo great I'll set $2.99 aside just in case they figure it out

As usual, I will restrain myself from answering questions though I am always tempted to just write out my thoughts instead of waiting for the podcast I know that the PSN games one will have to go to Tom anyway, though, since Fat Princess is pretty much my only PSN game that I have.

Thanks for the feedback!		2012-07-22 04:18:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Great post Wizball!2012-07-22 13:13:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Hey Guys, and gal. I just wanted to give my partial feedback on what I've listened to so far. Most of my podcast time was eaten away by dealing with Sprint's customer support. Its easy to say that Ms Poo has been the most integrated guest you've had on thus far. Obviously the familiarity and shared experience helped out a bunch in that aspect. As others have said there was an issue with it seeming like a private conversation at times. I found myself drifting off($%#%$@! SPRINT) when you were laughing and remembering things that happened the day prior. It's great to hear you guys had fun together but tell the story first so we can laugh with you versus having us feeling left out while you laugh until you finally clue us in on whats so funny.

Freemium Gaming

You guys know Im all about gameplay so this is a very serious subject for me, well as serious as any subject on gaming could be. The biggest problem for me is the fact that the financial mechanic is clearly visible when I play the game. I personally believe that once you have financials integrated into the creative process that it taints the whole game. Sure, we have had DLC in games but it never broke the into the virtual world asking you for real money while you were playing the game. So instead of playing an imaginative game designed to test my skill and provide an engaging experience, I have something designed around getting my money. I don't care how pretty it looks or how hard they try to hid it. I am not that upset about it because there are still enough real games out there to keep me busy. But if the whole industry went this way I'd be ******.

Plays vs Yeahs vs Hearts

Since most of my levels are designed around re-playability this is a no brainer, plays. The other two take very little effort, just a simple click. But having someone take the time to replay my level is very cool =)

One vs One Hundred

If you asked me if I would rather BUY 1 giant cookie or 100 normal cookies, it would be 100 cookies easy. But the frivolousness of an item is meaningless when it's a gift. So if someone offered me the same choice as a gift, giant cookie would win out. Mainly because a giant cookie is just more fun. If I walked into my house saying hey look I bought this giant cookie, my wife would question my sanity. However if I walked in saying look at this giant cookie someone gave me there would be simple enjoyment of something crazy. It would also create memories. Remember that time we ate that giant cookie...		2012-07-22 15:29:00

Author:
Xenon
Posts: 306

Do either of you think it is a bit interesting that [ehm.. This is probably covered by the NDA so I gotta take it out. Sorry! -Taffey]? Perhaps Jeff's design for The Hoarder will make an appearance in the full retail game, or maybe be the main character. I'm probably just a kid grasping at straws wanting Santa to be real, but what if?

Anyways, I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but will do so when I can find the time.		2012-07-22 17:25:00

Author:
WoodburyRaider
Posts: 1651

@Xenon: I can't think of a more enjoyable thing to do while you listen to the podcast

I can completely understand your issue with is laughing about a joke before explaining it. We'll need to watch out for that next time we have a live podcast. I don't think it is as easy to have that happen when it is not live thought so hopefully it is not a common issue.

I completely agree with your feelings on Freemium gaming. The odd thing about all this is that on the podcast Tom is the one who usually talks again Freemium games while I am a bit more defensive, but when it comes to actually playing a game, I think (key word is THINK because I may be wrong in this) Tom tends to download a lot more free games and I refuse to download free games about 98% of the time because I don't want to deal with having DLC pushed on me.

I think the real issue is that the general Smart Phone user is more willing to download a free app and pay for DLC than they are to download a $0.99 app and get everything right off the bat. It's depressing that people tend to act this way because it is shaping the industry for the worse in my opinion

Woo-hoo! You are someone who likes plays

Your thoughts on the cookie were very good. While I think I would still take the 100 cookies either way, you make the best argument yet I think!


@WoodburyRaider: Uh-oh! Someones onto Jeff's Hoarder scheme to take over the world of LBP through Karting!!!		2012-07-23 12:09:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Hello Taffey, Hiya Poo. Long time listener, first time caller :-)Hey wizball - thanks for the feedback! Nice to have you here in the thread.




I do see what Trindall was getting at, above — this episode certainly didn't feel as "meaty" as past episodes — but it somehow didn't occur to me as something to be concerned about. I guess I was treating the episode as a Special Edition, kinda like the Vita GameJam or Karting podcasts, and so was prepared for content that was more relaxed, fly-on-the-wall, "let's just set up a microphone here and start talking" kind of thing.Yes, 'fly on the wall' is a good way to describe the content of this one. It really was just kind of an extension of the conversation(s) we'd been having all day, it's just that we set up the mic and got our podcast agenda out and went from there. Our next several podcasts at least will be back to our "normal" format.



Question No. 1: Is there any "hidden gem" from the PS3's back-catalogue that you feel deserves to be better known and that you would recommend to a new PS3 owner? (I'm thinking of PSN games in particular, but if there's a Blu-Ray title that jumps to mind, then I'll allow it!) For example, I'd never heard of the PSN title Rochard, but I'm having a whole lot of fun with it at the moment. It's not a perfect game — I can understand why it doesn't receive the media attention that is given to, say, the work of thatgamecompany, or to some of the PixelJunk efforts — but I'm enjoying it a great deal, and I'm very glad I decided to pick it up.

Question No. 2 is LBP-related: LAYERS — YAY or BOO? After four years, four games, and millions of levels, what is the ultimate, official, authoritative, Pocket Moon verdict on LBP's introduction of layers to the platformer genre?* Were layers an interesting experiment? An unqualified success? An evolutionary mistake? Should layers be adopted by other developers of platform games? Did layers make possible something important in LBP? And contrariwise, can you think of anything that it's not possible to do or create in LBP because of layers? LAYERS: YAY or BOO?Nice! We'll add those to our agenda.




So instead of playing an imaginative game designed to test my skill and provide an engaging experience, I have something designed around getting my money. I don't care how pretty it looks or how hard they try to hid it. I am not that upset about it because there are still enough real games out there to keep me busy. But if the whole industry went this way I'd be ******.Hey Xenon!

This is probably the most compelling argument against the freemium model that I have heard yet. The very focus of the game is being distracted from something engaging and entertaining to "hey, give me some money!" It's like going to see Transformers and getting beaten over the head with Chevrolet advertising until you're ready to barf. (too late!)




Your thoughts on the cookie were very good. While I think I would still take the 100 cookies either way, you make the best argument yet I think!No, my diagram below is the best argument yet.

Following a flurry of questionable mathematical proofs submitted on Twitter as to why 100 cookies was better, I decided to make a graphical representation of why I am correct - a 50" cookie would be MUCH MUCH larger than 100 regular cookies. It was agreed on by the majority of people on Twitter at the time that a "regular" cookie could be assumed to be 1.5 inches. Even if the smaller cookies were as thick as the 50" cookie (not likely), it is an order of magnitude smaller in overall volume of cookie substance:


http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac207/tross13/Why_Tom_is_right.png

In this particular example I have made the "regular" cookies slightly larger than 1.5" (note how only 30 fit across) and still it isn't even close. It would have to be assumed that the 100 regular cookies would be something like 10 times better in overall quality than the 50" cookie, and I just don't buy that. (It's worth noting that after being proven terribly wrong, Frogmorton/Tyler declared that a "regular" cookie was probably closer to 6 inches across, a statement I reject. )

Ok, so you don't want the whole cookie? Share it with friends then, or give the extra to charity. I do really like Xenon's point regarding the novelty and memory of the giant cookie though - that's yet another argument in my favor. I am still astounded at how many people haven't yet realized that my answer is the bestest and most correct. 		2012-07-23 18:52:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

While I think a normal cookie is more like 3" in diameter (though I would certainly accept 6" cookies ), you make a great point about the amount of cookie you will get (and that is a beautiful illustration. I think you stole the art style I had on my old PS3 levels ).

So, I may even say that I will cross over to your side, Tom, IF I have a large number of friends to share with. Even with proof that there is that much more cookie, if I have to share it between Mrs. Poo and myself I would still take the 100 cookies simply because I would end up throwing away so much cookie that I believe I would be put in some dark prison cell for trashing so much happiness simply because I didn't want to make myself sick before it went stale Oh... and I am ridiculously addicted to rationing good things 		2012-07-23 19:22:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Lol food? Xd o_o2012-07-24 17:01:00

Author:
Unknown User

Yes! Finally got to hear it. Don't have any real feedback or questions as I had to listen to it in chunks. Usually I jot down notes as I'm listening. Great show as always. funny, informative, and entertaining.2012-07-24 19:58:00

Author:
biorogue
Posts: 8424

@babyabbu: We are the unofficial LBP Foodcast after all


@biorogue: Glad you enjoyed the show 		2012-07-25 11:57:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

I finally finished the episode, i was pretty much at the end anyway.

Cave vs Tree - Cave. I'm going by the three little pigs here, brick/stone is always better than wood.


@ AmazingFlyingPoo - I wasn't considering cel phone or tablet games when talking about Freemium games. They're such new platforms, have such a broad user base, and are not designed to be only for gaming. So I don't have the same issues with the different revenue models they employ, compared to the established gaming devices.

@ Taffy - There is no arguing with that logic in my mind =) I did want to add one thing I forgot in my last post. AFP mentioned modifying the giant cookie to make it work. That gave me the idea of putting a giant spindle of cookie dough on a gyro cooker like the one pictured below. Imagine being able to slice off fresh hot cookie pieces all day, yummmm.

http://i.imgur.com/Iww7z.jpg		2012-07-25 16:40:00

Author:
Xenon
Posts: 306

I do believe you have the ultimate win with the gyro cooker Xenon!2012-07-26 12:40:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Alright everyone, we'll be recording episode 24 in about 8 hours - if you have questions, post 'em!

My question for myself is: Why on earth haven't I gone to bed yet?? 		2012-07-31 07:36:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

Good night, Taffey!

In Russia it is already 10 am morning

Will wait for new podcast from you!		2012-07-31 07:48:00

Author:
Domik12
Posts: 838

Alright everyone, we'll be recording episode 24 in about 8 hours...

Excellent! Looking forward to the new eppie.

...Xenon's cookie-dough-on-a-gyro-cooker idea, though.

Genius.

No other words.

Genius.		2012-07-31 19:12:00

Author:
Unknown User


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