Archive: 117 posts

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I am creating this thread based on observations that I and other people on my PSN friends list have made regarding hearting peoples levels, the rating system and what it means to be objective. I hope people will read this and offer their own thoughts on the subject so as to create an open dialogue that reveals certain aspects of the average LBP gamers attitude/psychology. Let's have a look shall we: Hearting: 1. HEARTING IS NOT A PRIVILEGE! I am amazed when I look at some peoples hearted levels and there is only one page. Wtf? There are so many high quality levels out there that deserve hearts but simply don't get the exposure they deserve and therefore go unnoticed. Let me assure you that you are not a discerning gamer if you only have a handful of levels hearted. If anything, it makes you look arrogant and gives the impression that you carry an air of superiority and only hand out a hearts at the rate of one per month as if they were precious diamonds that are in short supply. 2. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF HEARTING: I have intentionally done several observations over the past month and was shocked at some of the results. Here is an example: Someone posts on my threads saying they loved my level and hearted. I get a chance to play their level and think it is amazing. I give them 5 stars and a well deserved heart, completely on the basis that I loved the level. I then check this person's hearted list and guess what? My levels not there! lol. I say to myself oh well and move on with my life. Did I then go and unheart his level? Of course not! Did I then go and give his level a low rating? Of course not! But here is where it gets interesting. The next day I notice my lvl has a couple of more hearts. Purely based on a hunch I then recheck this persons hearted and find my level there! In other words, this person said they hearted my level in the hope that I would play their own level and heart it and would wait to see if I actually did that before deciding to give me a heart! Wow huh? Isn't that twisted? But wait, it gets better! A couple of days later I see my lvl has lost a heart. At this point I already know whats going on lol. I check that persons level and sure enough, my lvl is no longer hearted. So I decide to take the experiment further. I now unheart this persons lvl (purely for the purpose of the observation with every intent to reheart it after I get the results). The person obviously notices because the next day I am back on their hearted list!!! I know, isn't it hilarious? Actually, no it isn't. I believe this is a practice that is not uncommon and anyone who has engaged in this sort of thing is childish, petty and immature. The bottom line is this: if you believe a level is deserving of a heart then give it a heart. If you are first checking to see if that person hearted your levels before you grant them a heart then change your attitude and fast. This is when LBP fails and results in crappy levels getting all the exposure when it really shouldn't be that way. HEARTED! (Uhhh, no you didn't): There have been a few people that have said they have hearted a lvl of mine when in fact they haven't. Now you may ask "Why are you even bothering to check if someone hearted your level?". Well the simple answer is because it was part of my previously mentioned observations. But more importantly, I now use peoples hearted levels as my search for great, unnoticed levels in LBP. I have found some of my favorite levels this way and I think it is a much more reliable and rewarding way to search for great levels then any of the current search functions. So if you did not heart someones lvl please don't tell them you did. It really makes you look like a jerk and that is never a good thing. RATING: THE DEATH OF THE 5 STAR LEVEL: Slowly but surly there will no longer be any 5 star levels. Take a minute to go check the ratings on what are considered to be some of the best levels out there. Your back, great. Let me guess, 4 stars right? Yeah, thought so. Why are what are undoubtedly 5 stars levels only getting 4 stars? Well once upon a time these were 5 star levels. These levels popularity and exposure grew. This made some people jealous and caused them to bombard the level with 1 star ratings. The level is now a 4 star level and will probably remain that way forever. Sad but true and this also extends into the psychology of rating. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RATING: So now the lvl is 4 stars. You play and finish the lvl and the rating system that pops up is automatically on 4 stars. You know that level is worthy of 5 stars but a psychological reaction takes place. An inner voice says "well, I guess it's not a 5 star level after all, I will just give it the 4 stars it deserves". NO NO NO! That WAS a 5 star level and it deserves those 5 stars! It is rated a 4 star level because of the reason already stated above. The other interesting psychology here is one where a talented creator plays a great level, knows it deserves 5 stars but since his/her equally great creation is also rated at 4 stars the why should they give this level a 5 star rating? The answer: because it deserves it just like their own level does! Being Objective GIVING CREDIT WHERE IT'S DUE: This is the very basis of being objective, giving credit where it's due. If a creator took the time to make an amazing creation then let them know. If the creator created something that is original that you admire then let them know. It isn't only perfectly constructed 5 star masterpieces that deserve credit. Any level, minigame, tutorial etc- where the creator may only have one single element that really stands out- still deserves credit. There is one possible disadvantage to being part of a forum and that is that some forum members may not exactly love you due to a million different reasons. Maybe your 38 and the other guy is 15 so he automatically doesn't connect with you and therefore has no interest in what you create in LBP. Maybe your a very opinionated person and that really irritates someone who is more quiet and observant etc. The list goes on and on but the most important thing is this: EVEN IF YOU MAY NOT "LIKE" THE PERSON THEN YOU SHOULD STILL GIVE THEM CREDIT IF IT'S DUE!!!! (please read that sentence again, it may be difficult to grasp the first read through). That means at the very least playing their level and hearting it if your truly believe it deserves it. This is a very hard thing to do, I know. However the ramifications of being able to do this will extend into your personal life and make you really understand the meaning of integrity. ECS: Otherwise known as Elite Creator Syndrome. If you are suffering from this then it's time to get your head out of your ***. The fact is that you are not the only talented creator in LBP. There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of creators just as talented as you are. Never forget that however talented you are, there will always be someone "better" then you. So why not start playing levels, giving other people feedback/credit and be part of the global LBP community as was intended by the creators of the game? Trust me, you will feel much better about yourself. The Clique I wanted to update the post with another observation I made regarding people who clique. There have been quite a few people who have joined these forums from other forums who knew each other ahead of time. It seems these people are only commenting on each others thread and hearting each others levels. What is that all about guys/girls? It's definitely not a good way to integrate yourself into a new community and besides that you are missing out on some really great levels! I honestly can't understand this kind of mentality but I am interested in other people's thoughts. UPDATE: The Era of the Heart Scrooge and the 1 Star Rating I am still amazed that some people can only have a handful of hearted levels, what is wrong with you guys/girls? With the recent changes MM made is only going to get worse. The new system works in part by the number of hearts and rating of the given level. This means that everyone is in direct competition with each other and it is in people's interest to NOT heart a level or give it a good rating because that might stand in the way of their level getting that much craved exposure. This is idiotic, mind-boggling, counter-intuitive and just plain dumb. Heart 2 Play ratios will (and have) take a steep drop across the board because of this and I really can't see any way around it. My new level Pulse has over 700 plays and only 38 hearts, by FAR my worst H2P ratio (not that I place too much importance on it, I just use my own lvl as an example to illustrate my point). That's it for now. I am very curious to get other peoples point of view on these and other issues that relate to what I have been talking about. I look forward to everyone's thoughts.

2009-01-08 10:53:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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WOW, OCK, what a post! I must say that i TOTALLY agree with you. I will not write a long post but here are my thoughts: Hearting: I agree with you. But now, for me, hearts are far less important that members comments and suggestions. I dreamed of a LBP game with a fait play system of ranking. It is not exactly the case. So i create my levels, present them to the forum and patiently wait feedbacks. The joy of the fiew people that converse with me about my levels is now sufficient for me. But i dreamed... RATING: I completely agree one more time. There is thing i don't really understand about rating. My levels are ALL 3 stars levels (there is only Attraction that is 4 stars). They start 5 stars and progressively fall down until 4 stars and now 3... It is the case for "Color of Sound", "The Quest of the Great Pyramid" and "SpaceOpera". So, maybe my levels do not deserves more than 3 stars, but these three levels wer spotlighted in this forum and the feedbacks i received was all very enthousiatstic (with a "5 stars and hearted" written at the end of the post... but, see your comments OCK). What must i think about this? Being Objective: One more time, i agree with you. I ALWAYS try to keep my objectivity when i play others levels. For exemple, when i comment a level, i never read the others reviews before posting. It could add redondancy with others in my comments and suggest, but that way, i can play the level without be influenced. Moreover, first of all i give credit (or not) to a level, not to a creator. Sometime, i give credit to both Concerning ECS, i don't think to be really concerned

2009-01-08 11:31:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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You konw what? I've completely unhearted those stupid level hearted by the stupid bribery H4H and left a heart only where I think the level deserves it (if the level isn't 'good enough' but the author has cried his eyes out building it, i usually heart the author) I find F4F greater, and i don't think it's a sort of bribery... IMO MM has made a big mistake adding heart things in the trophy achievements. What else, I agree with you. I feel good in this forum so I think the most members are quite my age (31). I searched for an Italian comunity, found it but is still little (a couple of members like 10 or 15 and only one of them is actually a creator (do not played his levels yet) and they are some big steps back LBPC).

2009-01-08 11:39:00 Author: Miglioshin Posts: 336

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Haha, wow... That's... That's insane. Great post OCK; I agree with everything you said 100%

2009-01-08 11:39:00 Author: Unknown User

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Great post OCK. I agree with a lot of what you have said but that would be boring if that was my full post so here are some of my thoughts or observations. When you said "There have been a few people that have said they have hearted a lvl of mine when in fact they haven't." It has happened to me that after playing a level I enjoyed I went straight to the comment section to tell the person how much i enjoyed their level and said I hearted it with full intention to heart it. Now for whatever reason between the time of writing that comment and moving on I forgot to actually heart the level I liked so much, and it wasn't until I went to my hearted levels to find it again that I noticed that I never hearted it resulting in me searching for it again to heart it. This only happened once though so not sure how common this is. Also on the removal of hearts thing, I have noticed that with regards to my levels, the more it was played the lower the percentage of people who heart it. For example after 1000 plays it would have 150 hearts, (15% hearted it) but after 10,000 plays it would have 1000 hearts (10%). Now at first I thought it was because less people were hearting it then at the start but I think what is happening is people are going into their hearted pages and removing them after a while. I know I have removed levels off my hearted list but that was generally levels that I first hearted at the start and to be honest don't want them in my hearted list as i will never play them again. On the star rating system, I don't like the way it only takes a few spiteful people to rate a level 1 star and bring down everybody elses rating resulting in all the great levels only receiving a 4 star rating but the way I see it is that everyone is up against the same level of people who rate levels fairly and those that don't. So when it boils down to it it will result in all levels getting ranked accordingly allbeit lower than it deserves.....

2009-01-08 11:42:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Goodness. Those are some interesting observations. Let me add some thoughts on some of the matters adressed. Hearting - I personally use hearts to indicate a level I enjoyed. Either one that was innovative, or beautiful, or fun. Basically it's a reference for a level that I would like to come back again and see some time. I do go back and revisit my heart list though every now and then. Sometimes those levels that I initially thought were good are now on reflection not living up to my current expectations. When "Ramp" first came out on launch day, I played it and hearted it, as many other people have done. I've since reflected that this level was not really all that good. I've taken away my heart since then. Something you did not mention is the impact of trophies on the hearting system. You get a trophy if your levels get hearted and you as a creator get hearted. The problem is, if people treat this concept seriously, it takes a lot of time and hard work to get a lot of hearts. Excluding the initial launch levels that by the fact of their timing have a lot of plays and hearts, for most creators to get hearts, well, you need to make a good level, and to be hearted as a creator you need to either make a truly exceptional level or else continually to produce decent quality entertainment. In the current western world mentality of wanting everything now, this idea does not seem very appealling. The idea of putting 40+ hours into a good level is not all that exciting for some, and sometimes those 40 hours can still result in a level that gets very low heart or played numbers, either through poor design or poor exposure. Because their are trophies attached to this achievement, going through all that work, especially with the prospect of still not getting it, and then finally missing out on a reward, a trophy, the heart for heart system has come about. If for some reason you don't know what that is yet, the idea is that you heart a creator and their level, and then comment in that level (or another one that gets a lot of plays, like the story levels) that you H4H or heart for heart. People see this, go and heart you, make a comment on your level, and then you heart them back. It's a nice, quick and ultimately in my opinion poor way of earning a trophy. It ultimately reduces the impacts of hearts to either be a popularity contest, a reward for people who spam in levels, or just an easy way to work around a system that's meant to be not easy to get. If you include as well that to get a platinum trophy in LBP, you have to get every other trophy, including the create ones which should be requiring a lot of hard work, you can see why people want to take the easy path and ultimately trash the whole existance and point of hearts. --- In reguards to ratings, I think the system is not ideal right now. I would really prefer to see a system where you don't see the current rating of the level when you finish up one. Whether it goes to 5 stars or no stars or 3... it's a bad idea in my opinion to have it default to the current rating. You made the point OCK of mentioning it in light of people who have already created levels. Let me look at it from another angle. You create a new level. It's not a bad one, but it's not a truly awesome epic masterpiece. Let's say it's a 4 star level. A random person plays your level, the first person to ever play it. They go through and think "that was a good level". They see the default 3 stars though, and think "Ah, I guess it was average" and leave it at 3. Or they are lazy and just click the default rating, which is 3 stars. My point is that it can be hard for new levels to gain momentum. You are stuck with a lot of 3 stars. You can get even worse problems if the first person to play has some issue and gives it a 2 or even 1 star rating, as the second player won't see 3, they will see one or two. Now there is very little chance at all for them to give it a true 4 star rating. --- One more point I must make, and that is of elite creator syndrome. I've noticed a few people, at least before the bugs of 1.07, give up on create mode because they percieve their hard work as never getting the attention it deserves. I know that the reason people create is a personal one, some to express themselves, others do it so people can be exposed to what they think is a good level, others do it to try and get a tonne of hearts and plays, and that's just a few reasons. It's really hard for a good creator to get attention. There was a brief window when the "highest rated" category came up for those that were silent hits to be exposed, like aeroblues' second level about tombs. That window has been and gone. Another might appear, but basically it's really hard to get exposure. That's a fact. Barring another window happening in the search engine which your levels happens to fall into, it's likely that your level won't get much exposure. I now have I think 300 plays on my digestion level, and 30 odd hearts. I'd consider them good numbers, but that is partly from doing the republish shuffle and bringing attention to the level on this site. This is after about 1 month, maybe more, maybe less. For those that don't have a lot of exposure on this site or others, and who don't have levels that appear in search engine changes, well, it's likely your levels may never get 10,000 plays or 1,000 hearts. It's a hard, cold reality. Maybe the search engine will get better, but I come back to the point, "Why are you creating?". Is it to get the million plays? You might want to not do the 40 hour marathons then. Is it to express yourself or show things to others? Well then, I think creating is well worth the time.

2009-01-08 11:43:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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All of these point are spot on... I just heart what I like. Even levels I haven't played in months, or might not think are as great as they used to be - I'm not gonna unheart them. It's tough sometimes to sift through all my pages to find a certain level, and it could probably use some minimizing... but the creators that earned that heart, deserve to keep it. I try to lavish people with praise when they do something good, and encouragement... for what one level lacks, another may excel in, and no level is perfect or has everything you could want. Even in terms of criticism, I feel that pointing out the strengths makes them wonder why another aspect wasn't praised... rather than trashing a certain aspect and discouraging them, they may analyze it on their own with positive reinforcement and constructive criticism in hand. I sometimes read the tags on levels just to laugh - like on Little Big Calculator... people would put tags like Rubbish, Boss, Difficult, Speedy, Hilarious, Hectic etc that are either jokes or complete stupidity. The rating system landing on the present rating also results in people pushing X just to get through the menu as quick as possible. All my levels are 3 stars apparently :/ it often depends on the first tag, the first rating, the first play/heart ratio, and the first comment. Breaking the average of a star rating that's already had a 1000 hasty 3 star clicks is a monumental task with insurmountable odds.

2009-01-08 11:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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I agree with you. But now, for me, hearts are far less important that members comments and suggestions. I dreamed of a LBP game with a fait play system of ranking. It is not exactly the case. So i create my levels, present them to the forum and patiently wait feedbacks. The joy of the fiew people that converse with me about my levels is now sufficient for me. But i dreamed... I agree that feedback is of utmost importance and ever since I joined this site I have tried my best to leave extensive feedback for an many people as possible. I like the way the new F4F system is working although for some there seems to be an attitude of "well, I got enought feedback so I won't take the time to leave anyone else feedback anymore" or "thsi person has already had enough feedback so even though I played and enjoyed their level I won't bother taking 10 seconds to let them know". I think the F4F system is great, I just don't want people to be selfish with it... My levels are ALL 3 stars levels (there is only Attraction that is 4 hearts). They start 5 stars and progressively fall down until 4 stars and now 3... It is the case for "Color of Sound", "The Quest of the Great Pyramid" and "SpaceOpera". So, maybe my levels do not deserves more than 3 stars, but these three levels wer spotlighted in this forum and the feedbacks i received was all very enthousiatstic (with a "5 stars and hearted" written at the end of the post... but, see your comments OCK). What must i think about this? I noticed that your levels are 3 stars and you know what? That's bull****. You have amazing levels, most of which I believe to be 5 star levels and I really can't understand why they have 3 stars, it makes me angry. I feel good in this forum so I think the most members are quite my age (31). Actually I think most forum users are under the age of 20 but there is nothing wrong with that. There are a few of us that are a bit older lol. When you said "There have been a few people that have said they have hearted a lvl of mine when in fact they haven't." It has happened to me that after playing a level I enjoyed I went straight to the comment section to tell the person how much i enjoyed their level and said I hearted it with full intention to heart it. Now for whatever reason between the time of writing that comment and moving on I forgot to actually heart the level I liked so much, and it wasn't until I went to my hearted levels to find it again that I noticed that I never hearted it resulting in me searching for it again to heart it. This only happened once though so not sure how common this is. For the most part I was talking about comments made here on these very forums but let's just leave it at that... On the star rating system, I don't like the way it only takes a few spiteful people to rate a level 1 star and bring down everybody elses rating resulting in all the great levels only receiving a 4 star rating but the way I see it is that everyone is up against the same level of people who rate levels fairly and those that don't. So when it boils down to it it will result in all levels getting ranked accordingly allbeit lower than it deserves..... Exactly. Unfortunately I don't know of any way to change the rating system to prevent this. Although Elbee had a wonderful suggestion: In reguards to ratings, I think the system is not ideal right now. I would really prefer to see a system where you don't see the current rating of the level when you finish up one. Whether it goes to 5 stars or no stars or 3... it's a bad idea in my opinion to have it default to the current rating. Wonderful idea! Let's write a letter to MM! You create a new level. It's not a bad one, but it's not a truly awesome epic masterpiece. Let's say it's a 4 star level. A random person plays your level, the first person to ever play it. They go through and think "that was a good level". They see the default 3 stars though, and think "Ah, I guess it was average" and leave it at 3. Or they are lazy and just click the default rating, which is 3 stars. My point is that it can be hard for new levels to gain momentum. You are stuck with a lot of 3 stars. You can get even worse problems if the first person to play has some issue and gives it a 2 or even 1 star rating, as the second player won't see 3, they will see one or two. Now there is very little chance at all for them to give it a true 4 star rating. Good point and I agree 1000%. Unfortunately I see no way around this problem. Something you did not mention is the impact of trophies on the hearting system. You get a trophy if your levels get hearted and you as a creator get hearted. The problem is, if people treat this concept seriously, it takes a lot of time and hard work to get a lot of hearts. Excluding the initial launch levels that by the fact of their timing have a lot of plays and hearts, for most creators to get hearts, well, you need to make a good level, and to be hearted as a creator you need to either make a truly exceptional level or else continually to produce decent quality entertainment. In the current western world mentality of wanting everything now, this idea does not seem very appealling. The idea of putting 40+ hours into a good level is not all that exciting for some, and sometimes those 40 hours can still result in a level that gets very low heart or played numbers, either through poor design or poor exposure. Because their are trophies attached to this achievement, going through all that work, especially with the prospect of still not getting it, and then finally missing out on a reward, a trophy, the heart for heart system has come about. If for some reason you don't know what that is yet, the idea is that you heart a creator and their level, and then comment in that level (or another one that gets a lot of plays, like the story levels) that you H4H or heart for heart. People see this, go and heart you, make a comment on your level, and then you heart them back. It's a nice, quick and ultimately in my opinion poor way of earning a trophy. It ultimately reduces the impacts of hearts to either be a popularity contest, a reward for people who spam in levels, or just an easy way to work around a system that's meant to be not easy to get. If you include as well that to get a platinum trophy in LBP, you have to get every other trophy, including the create ones which should be requiring a lot of hard work, you can see why people want to take the easy path and ultimately trash the whole existance and point of hearts. Good point and I actually wanted to mention this but forgot lol. The whole H4H system is a joke and it is unfortunate that people are taking part in it becasue MM decided to link certain trophies to hearts. Not much else to say here as it is unlikely that this well ever change. One more point I must make, and that is of elite creator syndrome. I've noticed a few people, at least before the bugs of 1.07, give up on create mode because they percieve their hard work as never getting the attention it deserves. I know that the reason people create is a personal one, some to express themselves, others do it so people can be exposed to what they think is a good level, others do it to try and get a tonne of hearts and plays, and that's just a few reasons. It's really hard for a good creator to get attention. There was a brief window when the "highest rated" category came up for those that were silent hits to be exposed, like aeroblues' second level about tombs. That window has been and gone. Another might appear, but basically it's really hard to get exposure. That's a fact. Barring another window happening in the search engine which your levels happens to fall into, it's likely that your level won't get much exposure. I now have I think 300 plays on my digestion level, and 30 odd hearts. I'd consider them good numbers, but that is partly from doing the republish shuffle and bringing attention to the level on this site. This is after about 1 month, maybe more, maybe less. For those that don't have a lot of exposure on this site or others, and who don't have levels that appear in search engine changes, well, it's likely your levels may never get 10,000 plays or 1,000 hearts. It's a hard, cold reality. Maybe the search engine will get better, but I come back to the point, "Why are you creating?". Is it to get the million plays? You might want to not do the 40 hour marathons then. Is it to express yourself or show things to others? Well then, I think creating is well worth the time. Good point although I think you may have misunderstood what I was talking about here. When I refer to ECS, I refer to creators who have levels that are VERY successful and are actively playing LBP. The probelm is that these creators don't seem interested in giving other creations credit/feedback etc because they are blinded by their own sense of "grandeur". My whole piece on ECS was meant to bring them back to planet earth and get their over-inflated heads out of the clouds. I sometimes read the tags on levels just to laugh - like on Little Big Calculator... people would put tags like Rubbish, Boss, Difficult, Speedy, Hilarious, Hectic etc that are either jokes or complete stupidity. The whole tagging system is broken and need to be completely changed. I had a laughing fit when someone tagged The Legion as rubbish lol. The rating system landing on the present rating also results in people pushing X just to get through the menu as quick as possible. Yup All my levels are 3 stars apparently :/ it often depends on the first tag, the first rating, the first play/heart ratio, and the first comment. Breaking the average of a star rating that's already had a 1000 hasty 3 star clicks is a monumental task with insurmountable odds. Yeah, once again, that's just bull****. You are one of the most talented creators I know and the idea of your levels being 3 star is just incredibly ridiculous and infuriating. I am happy people are responding to this thread and I hope more people take the time to leave their thoughts.

2009-01-08 14:11:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Wow guys. Very text heavy stuff here! But there are many things in this discussion that I am interested in, so when I get back home today I'll read it all and contribute my two cents Isn't it sad to think that (it seems like, according to ratings) a majority of the people out there would rather play a short, crappy, trophy level instead of a brilliantly crafted and deeply satisfying work of digital art?

2009-01-08 14:43:00 Author: Unknown User

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Hearting: A nice experiment you conducted. Agreed that it is frustrating and strange. Much like myspace "pc4pc" (picture comment for picture comment) where people want picture comments for the sake of having picture comments and the only way to get them they think is to ask for them in the hopes that other people like them will comment their pictures so that they to can receive a picture comment for the sake of having one. Oh and I have very few hearted levels but only because I think hearting is something that is truly deserved. Sure it can have a good rating but a hearted level is something that i truly enjoyed or was inspired by and would like to play again or to show friends. Rating: Agreed again. though you have missed on a vital thing. because the rating comes up with the average score, lazy or casual lbp players just quickly click X and go through the ratings and tagging without think about it. I think this becomes quite a large majority of the ratings. Being Objective: On the money again.

2009-01-08 14:56:00 Author: muttjones Posts: 843

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Oh wow, that is one long post. I'm gonna have to write about it in separate sections later, but regarding hearts, I only heart levels where I think "this level was really awesome." However, even then, I sometimes forget to Heart. Yes, it just skips my mind for some reason. Anyhoo, before 1.07, I was one of the many Creators frustrated with Level Exposure (I'm sure many of you remember my Creator Crisis thread...). Now, though, I feel..."accomplished". Having just that one level get so much exposure was enough for me. Thinking about it right now, I just shrug a little bit and continue to work on my current project. For some reason, my goal has changed. I used to Create to show a level to the masses... But now, I'm really doing it just for fun, and for my friends IRL and here on LBPC. Maybe I just wanted to see if I was really a decent Creator... I guess that was it. My friends said so, but I guess I was curious as to what the general public thought. Sorry if I strayed a bit off subject there (or completely, lol?), but I felt the moment was a bit appropiate. :

2009-01-08 15:00:00 Author: aer0blue Posts: 1603

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I agree with most of what you've said OCK For hearts, I myself have had a person say they hearted my level when in fact they did not. I found that to be rather gauche, but let it slide. Myself, I always heart based on a set of guidelines. I will heart either : - If I really enjoyed the level and would like to play it again. - If the level shows that a lot of work went into it. - If the level shows a lot of potential for what the author can accomplish. - (For LBPC only) If I did not particularly like the level, but the author continued to add effort to make the level better after receiving feedback. After hearting I always check the author's other levels if there are any. I generally find another level worthy of hearting and make sure to heart the author as well. -- For the rating, I try to be fair. I don't hand out 5-star ratings like candy, but I don't shy away from giving a 4 or 5 on levels that have a lower average rating. I have noticed that levels are systematically rated lower than the rating I give them, which leads me to the conclusion that the rating system doesn't *quite* work. For this reason I tend to ignore the average rating when looking for levels to play. I really dislike that the game *forces* you to give a star rating which you cannot cancel, and also that it defaults to a pre-determined value. Both of these problems combined makes sure that a level will keep its current rating forever. Fixing both of these issues would give levels a slightly better chance at getting a fair rating. I would also like for a way to have ratings be categorized depending on what you're looking for. For instance the IMDB ratings show the total average for a movie, but also a categorized average by age group and gender, and you'll see that ratings generally differ greatly depending on the category. -- As for "ECS", I think it's important when playing to stop thinking like a creator and about your own creations. Myself, I like to observe everything about a level, appreciate what it has to give, and possibly learn something new. Everyone can learn from another creator's level, no one is a "Master" of LBP level making yet as far as I know. All creators are different. We all have different skills, different experience, different dedication and different tastes. When you do find something you enjoy or learn from another creator, it's a good thing to let them know. That tells them that they're on the right track and allows them to become better at what they do, it's also great for motivating them to make even more levels. On the other hand, if you find that something could have been done better or have advice you can give, it's also a good thing to let them know.

2009-01-08 15:31:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I'm going to break this combo of long posts because I preety much agree with everything here.

2009-01-08 15:52:00 Author: GuyWithNoEyes Posts: 1100

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Not adding anything about trophies to your first post is a crime :/. I have like 23 something odd hearts on my profile despite not being a good level maker... it's mostly because I'm a mod at a trophy forum, and I have people heart me since I used to post I wanted in but now I want out. But they still heart me anyway, so I have people who hearted me expecting to be hearted back but I never hearted them back but yeah :/.

2009-01-08 15:54:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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What a great post Hearting levels is something I do when I feel the level is good, or I just like it. It can be just a cool vehicle I liked, someting unique or just a really great level. I agree people don't use this as much as they should, and I never really add remarks so I only give a heart out when I like the level and also rate it high. And yeah I would never just go heart your level because you said I hearted you, just go out and play levels and heart who you think should be hearted. I do think it is messed up that people can't just let people have a good level and have to be haters and go and rank it low, that is wrong but really what can be done. People will always be like this, people will always rank something low because they are haters. I know I rank what I feel is good, 5 stars to a really good level, I try to be fair about it. But I know I don't like levels that just give out points, so you can get trophies, I give lower stars to those, where is seems like most people give out higher ranks. I see a good way for MM to solve a issue like this would be, to start choosing good players who are fair to give out stars that actually mean something. So yeah you have your normal ranks but than you also have MM selected people who give out stars and those mean more to your level, but other than that there is no real way to solve this issue because there will always be haters. But yeah very good points everyone, and only if the world was fair, but hey it is not, so live with it.

2009-01-08 16:03:00 Author: Darth_Spartan Posts: 813

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I think also that our (as in the people on this forum) opinions and the way we heart and rate a level would not really be a sample of the norm. The fact is anyone who bothered logging in and signing up to this forum is someone who cares a lot more about this game than the casual gamer. Theres a much higher proportion of creators to players on this forum than who own the game. Being a creator gives you a vested interest in level you make. It also changes your opinion about other user levels you play. Being a casual gamer that just plays the level you wouldn't care as much about the ratings system, thus all the quick button presses to get onto the next level.

2009-01-08 16:22:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Ya, I completely agree. If you're a creator in LBP and have actually spent time creating your own level and put a lot of effort into it, you'll often be more appreciative towards other peoples' work and rate them fairly... unless you are jealous ;p While, if you only play the game to play the game and not contribute anything, you'll just quickly breeze through the rating and go to the next somewhat interesting level.

2009-01-08 17:02:00 Author: Trap_T Posts: 431

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I have about 10 pages of hearted levels. Why? Because there are sooo many levels that deserve the recognition. This game was supposed be about Play, Create, and Share - and I've tried my best to live up to that mantra. I've probably played close to five or six hundred user levels, I've created about 10 or so levels and published 8 of them. I always try to offer feedback when someone wants it and I'll gladly share anything I've made with anyone that wants it. I even made a level that is copyable. LBP is pretty much all I've done for the last few months....and it's been great. It's also come with a certain level of frustration. You sink a ton of time into a level and then it doesn't meet your expectations. Why? Because the system is still broken. If I didn't see levels with hundreds of thousands of plays everytime I clicked the community option, I think I'd be pretty happy with the state of my levels. If the feedback I got was negative then I would understand why I can't get to my goal for plays. But that's not the case. Honestly...hearting levels is the best way to support our (authors) cause. You don't know who is playing off of your hearted list. I get at least 3 or 4 messages a week telling me how great my hearted list is. The more you heart good levels, the better it is for the people sinking time into creating. I wish I knew where this game was headed, I certainly hope the system gets changed again. Someone said it earlier, it's starting to look like it used to - the same old stuff everytime you pull up the community pages. Why? Because it's a dynamic game with a relatively static sorting system. If you like it the way it is...then fine, be a heart scrooge. If not..then spread the freaking love.

2009-01-09 00:03:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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I have about 10 pages of hearted levels. Why? Because there are sooo many levels that deserve the recognition. This game was supposed be about Play, Create, and Share - and I've tried my best to live up to that mantra. I've probably played close to five or six hundred user levels, I've created about 10 or so levels and published 8 of them. I always try to offer feedback when someone wants it and I'll gladly share anything I've made with anyone that wants it. I even made a level that is copyable. LBP is pretty much all I've done for the last few months....and it's been great. It's also come with a certain level of frustration. You sink a ton of time into a level and then it doesn't meet your expectations. Why? Because the system is still broken. If I didn't see levels with hundreds of thousands of plays everytime I clicked the community option, I think I'd be pretty happy with the state of my levels. If the feedback I got was negative then I would understand why I can't get to my goal for plays. But that's not the case. Honestly...hearting levels is the best way to support our (authors) cause. You don't know who is playing off of your hearted list. I get at least 3 or 4 messages a week telling me how great my hearted list is. The more you heart good levels, the better it is for the people sinking time into creating. I wish I knew where this game was headed, I certainly hope the system gets changed again. Someone said it earlier, it's starting to look like it used to - the same old stuff everytime you pull up the community pages. Why? Because it's a dynamic game with a relatively static sorting system. If you like it the way it is...then fine, be a heart scrooge. If not..then spread the freaking love. I couldn't of said it better myself and I have to say I have been finding some amazing levels on your hearted list Jaeyden. How many of you actively play Japanese levels? Trsut me whenI say you don't need to know how to read Japanese to enjoy most of these levels. I have a whole bunch of Japanese levels hearted and there are some things these creators do that are simply mind-blowing and unlike anything I have ever seen before. So yeah, stop being a heart scrooge. Play as many levels as you can and don't be afraid to give out hearts because there are tons of creators who deserve them. I try to play 10-15 user levels everyday and I find myself hearting on average about 3 of these, the quality (if your willing to look) is just that good. As for "ECS", I think it's important when playing to stop thinking like a creator and about your own creations. Myself, I like to observe everything about a level, appreciate what it has to give, and possibly learn something new. Everyone can learn from another creator's level, no one is a "Master" of LBP level making yet as far as I know. All creators are different. We all have different skills, different experience, different dedication and different tastes. I am so happy you point this out Gilgamesh. I personally never play a level and ask myself "Well how is this compared to my level?" that just wouldn't make any sense. And I cannot count the times that I have been inspired by other peoples work. There are so many original, beautiful ideas out there if you just take the time to find those diamonds in the rough.

2009-01-09 01:05:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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On that last paragraph - I sometimes play with critical players who will trash a level inch by inch, and it's no fun. Ironically, the guy who I used to play with was completely terrible at making levels and I never had the heart to tell him lol I always just let go when I'm in a level. I love when I'm playing and just go "wow, that's awesome... how'd he do that" or "I wish i'd done that" or "that gives me an idea" or "this is the coolest thing I've ever seen" - it's great. There's always at least one aspect in a decent level that would be in the recipe for the as-yet-unseen perfect level that has it all. There are a handful of creators that I know who can do things I'd never be able to, and everyone has this completely unique style and personality to their creations. That is the true aspect of appreciation - the individual artist and his work. In all actuality criticism is a delusion, as creative output can only be disseminated into categories of contrast and comparison to be understood and interpreted. Even the most basic and juvenile levels: I often look at them as an interactive version of stick figure drawings, and see the ripe imagination of a budding mind. It has value and can be appreciated in it's own way. When you think back to being able to use your imagination and enact grand scenarios in your mind with army guys, stick swords, and secret base drawings - you see that the spirit of boundless creative energy that really is LBP. It brings out the kid in all of us. Imagine if Ramp was your child's first level... like their first drawing? You'd frame it up on the fridge, and tell them how good it is to nurture the artist in them. lol... anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but basically looking past the face value of a thing is really the only way to truly understand it, and thus the only way to have an informed, mature and rational opinion on the article in question. The moral of the story, is that even when thinking critically, you'll never be able to properly critique something without approaching everything in life with an open mind... at the least you'd fail to be justified in your conclusions.

2009-01-09 01:25:00 Author: Unknown User

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On that last paragraph - I sometimes play with critical players who will trash a level inch by inch, and it's no fun. Ironically, the guy who I used to play with was completely terrible at making levels and I never had the heart to tell him lol I always just let go when I'm in a level. I love when I'm playing and just go "wow, that's awesome... how'd he do that" or "I wish i'd done that" or "that gives me an idea" or "this is the coolest thing I've ever seen" - it's great. There's always at least one aspect in a decent level that would be in the recipe for the as-yet-unseen perfect level that has it all. There are a handful of creators that I know who can do things I'd never be able to, and everyone has this completely unique style and personality to their creations. That is the true aspect of appreciation - the individual artist and his work. In all actuality criticism is a delusion, as creative output can only be disseminated into categories of contrast and comparison to be understood and interpreted. Even the most basic and juvenile levels: I often look at them as an interactive version of stick figure drawings, and see the ripe imagination of a budding mind. It has value and can be appreciated in it's own way. When you think back to being able to use your imagination and enact grand scenarios in your mind with army guys, stick swords, and secret base drawings - you see that the spirit of boundless creative energy that really is LBP. It brings out the kid in all of us. Imagine if Ramp was your child's first level... like their first drawing? You'd frame it up on the fridge, and tell them how good it is to nurture the artist in them. lol... anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but basically looking past the face value of a thing is really the only way to truly understand it, and thus the only way to have an informed, mature and rational opinion on the article in question. The moral of the story, is that even when thinking critically, you'll never be able to properly critique something without approaching everything in life with an open mind... at the least you'd fail to be justified in your conclusions. A beautifully composed and well thought out post. The wonderful thing about LBP is the different styles each individual has. There are certain things others can do that I probably could never do and I am perfectly OK with that. In fact, I applaud those creators for making things that I never even dreamed of and lavish them with praise because it is so well deserved. I am amazed and pleased at the responses this thread is getting and I hope more people take the time to leave their thoughts.

2009-01-09 02:02:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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It is a great debate !!! Besides, it makes work my English. I totally agree with your first comment OCK. For me, it's very difficult to be objective. Moreover, the rating may change between the first session of game and the next. The first impression of discovery is still the best !!! For me, it's as to appreciate a film. What imports me, it is the sensation that I had at the end of the film. If I am subjected, fooled, then I do not hesitate to put a heart. For me, it's in this sense that I use this distinction. The notation is more relative to the conception, the structure of the level. I associate directly the notation in tax sticker which are proposed during the evaluation. However, I agree that it is difficult to make the distinction enter the emotional and material side because this last participle largely in our emotional evaluation. That's why now, I bring more importances for the returns of the users of central LBP than for this rarting/hearting where the argumentation is limited. ZaNy

2009-01-09 09:08:00 Author: ZaNy Posts: 12

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Imagine if Ramp was your child's first level... like their first drawing? You'd frame it up on the fridge, and tell them how good it is to nurture the artist in them. This is actually a really good point. I mean, if you look at this level, on its description he has included a note saying something like "This was my first level please stop leaving messeges saying I suck". Now when I saw this I felt terrible for this poor guy. Noone deserves that kind of treatment. What if this is some little 10 year old kid who was really proud of this level. (And this is coming from the guy who created a thread called "Ramp is dead! Long live the new Ramp!) After reading NinjaMicWZ comment, it does make you think, *hangs head in shame*. Saying that though I stand by my original statement that this shouldn't be the type of thing that makes it to the top, but still theres no need to be nasty. Also I think the people who post comments saying that the cool pages are returning to what they were, same thing with no new levels, might be wrong, because if you think about it, as people are playing through these levels peoples standards get higher. What someone would give 5 stars and a heart to now is of a much higher standard than it was a month ago. So all the older levels on page 1 will eventual be ranked lower by the newer votes and the better levels will rise up amongst the rankings. Also people will start to remove hearts from the levels on page 1 in favour of newer levels. From what I have observed, how a level is ranked on cool levels appears to be deduced by multiplying the star rating by the number of plays. I'm not sure if the amount who heart it is factored in or not. Also it appears not to be just a definitive 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 stars but anywhere inbetween value, its just we see it as rounded to the nearest star. So theoretically a 1 star level could make it on but it would need 5 times the amount of plays. Now my point is even if these level get a lot of plays if people begin ranking them lower, because they now have higher standards they will move down the rankings. Look at the Dead Space level as an example. That made it from nowhere to page one within a week. With more levels doing that it will push the rest back down the line.

2009-01-09 10:24:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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What imports me, it is the sensation that I had at the end of the film. If I am subjected, fooled, then I do not hesitate to put a heart. If I am to understand this correctly then what your saying is that if the first 95% of the level was amazing but for some reason you were diappointed by the ending then you would not give the level a heart? This is exactly the sort of thinking that needs to be abandoned. I have hearted levels where maybe there was only one single element that impressed me but it impressed me so much that I felt the level was deserving of a heart. I think Gilgamesh has a wonderful system: I will heart either : - If I really enjoyed the level and would like to play it again. - If the level shows that a lot of work went into it. - If the level shows a lot of potential for what the author can accomplish. - (For LBPC only) If I did not particularly like the level, but the author continued to add effort to make the level better after receiving feedback. Everything written above makes perfect sense and I pretty much follow these criteria as well as a few other points.

2009-01-09 13:44:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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If I am to understand this correctly then what your saying is that if the first 95% of the level was amazing but for some reason you were diappointed by the ending then you would not give the level a heart? This is exactly the sort of thinking that needs to be abandoned. I have hearted levels where maybe there was only one single element that impressed me but it impressed me so much that I felt the level was deserving of a heart. sorry but i don't agree. hearting is a privilege that should show great levels. you don't want to play a levl that has housands of hearts because one small section has fantastic lighting but overall it is a pretty average level. it just isn't fair on the people who make awesome levels but are buried beneath millions of terrible ones.

2009-01-09 13:52:00 Author: muttjones Posts: 843

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sorry but i don't agree. hearting is a privilege that should show great levels. you don't want to play a levl that has housands of hearts because one small section has fantastic lighting but overall it is a pretty average level. it just isn't fair on the people who make awesome levels but are buried beneath millions of terrible ones. You obviously did not see what I first wrote when I started this thread: HEARTING IS NOT A PRIVELEGE!!! Now, when I heart one of these levels it does not mean that the level is crap. On the contrary, I would say most of the levels where one single element impressed me are all-around good (but not great or "5 star"). I would encourage you to read Jaeyden's post. I consider him to be one of the top 10 creators in LBP. The man is a true talent and unlike some other egotistical creators, he avidly searches, plays, hearts and comments on other peoples levels. The key here is that his levels would still be as successful if he didn't do all this. I repeat that there are so many great levels deserving of hearts and if you have a very small hearted list then it's probably because you have not played many levels. My best advice is to stop relying on the search function altogether and look at some other peoples hearted lists for some really great levels. In any event you are entitled to your opinion but it is interesting that the younger crowd seem to cling to this idea of hearting being a privelege (yet at the same time it is probably the younger crowd that really made levels like RAMP a success) while those of us who have been doing this gaming thing for a while have a completely different perspective.

2009-01-09 14:02:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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If I am to understand this correctly then what your saying is that if the first 95% of the level was amazing but for some reason you were diappointed by the ending then you would not give the level a heart? I think that it is the misunderstanding which comes probably from my bad English written expression! When I speak about "end", I do not obviously speak about last two seconds of play. I simply meant that I become attached to the sensations which I feel when I ended the level. It corresponds well on to the sum of the events and the sensations that I felt during the game ! Everything written above makes perfect sense and I pretty much follow these criteria as well as a few other points. It is your point of view and I respect it. I think that it is all the same possible to think otherwise without that it is the bad way of seeing things... Moreover, if you read my comment up to the end, I say clearly that anyway, this system of notation is difficult to standardize and that I prefer to discuss with people of this forum because the argumentation is more enriching than 1 or 5 stars and a heart.

2009-01-09 14:20:00 Author: ZaNy Posts: 12

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I completely agree!! I heart levels that I think are unique, or a lot of fun, or just really good in general, I heart creators when I think they've gone above and beyond with one or many levels. I think it is just ridiculous when people take away hearts and ratings, just over jealousy. Completely juvenile! I hope all of this discussion will knock some sense into those people, and maybe we'll see some change.

2009-01-09 14:28:00 Author: LBP4EVER Posts: 8

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In any event you are entitled to your opinion but it is interesting that the younger crowd seem to cling to this idea of hearting being a privelege (yet at the same time it is probably the younger crowd that really made levels like RAMP a success) while those of us who have been doing this gaming thing for a while have a completely different perspective. I think OCK hit the nail on the head there. There appears to be a large gap between older gamers and younger gamers. This is bound to happen with a game that has such broad appeal to all ages though. I will put this question out there however. What about levels like "Little Big Calculator" or some of the intricate music levels. Even though when I first saw this I was blown away at the sheer complexity of the calculator and i thought it deserved 5 stars for sure. But do I really want to play the level again? No. So there would be an instance where the skill involved deserves 5 stars but in my opinion I wouldn't want it in my favourites list. I think it may boil down to how you view the hearted levels. I see it purely as a list of levels I have played that I would like to play again sometime. I don't think a heart should be seen as a special prize that you give to someone if you liked their level. Thats what the star rating is for. I think if trophies were not connected with the hearts thing it would solve a lot of problems and also I don't really think that the amount of hearts the level has should be shown on the description. It should be simply left as a favourites list.

2009-01-09 14:34:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I will put this question out there however. What about levels like "Little Big Calculator" or some of the intricate music levels. Even though when I first saw this I was blown away at the sheer complexity of the calculator and i thought it deserved 5 stars for sure. But do I really want to play the level again? No. So there would be an instance where the skill involved deserves 5 stars but in my opinion I wouldn't want it in my favourites list. Very good point and I agree wholeheartedly. I think the work and thought process needed to create Little Big Calculator is 5 star but I did not heart it because I really did not enjoy playing it. I think if trophies were not connected with the hearts thing it would solve a lot of problems and also I don't really think that the amount of hearts the level has should be shown on the description. It should be simply left as a favourites list. What an amazing idea! In essence you are talking about scraping the hearting system as something that is displayed publicly and I mus say I think this would work perfectly. This way no player would be influenced by looking at the levels heart/play ration and simply heart it if they truly enjoyed it etc. However the system should still allow for the creators to see how many hearts their level has received as well as be able to view their friends hearted list. What does everyone else think?

2009-01-10 02:58:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Two quick points Hearting The main criteria I use for hearting is "will I want to play this again? Will I want to bring back some friends to play it with me?" Or even "this calculator is a cool reference I should come back to. In other words, I'm using hearts as bookmarks, not necessarily as a reward or a rating. I save stars for that. Being forced to rate I think this is a problem, though I understand why it is that way. But many times I do not complete a level in the first (or second) run. Or the level is long and I get called away. Yet I'm forced to choose a star rating when I really can't give a fair one. I don't like that

2009-01-10 18:58:00 Author: Trystian Posts: 59

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Everyone's making good points about the heart system, and what it's used for... I wish we could organize our hearted levels into prioritized tiers and lists to coordinate with our own star ratings - like music players. Even though every song isn't you favorite, 5 star perfection, it doesn't mean you don't want it on the playlist and want to listen to it sometimes. A list in general would be great, because the rotating planet is a nightmare if you've got more than one page.

2009-01-10 19:07:00 Author: Unknown User

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Concerning hearts, Mm did a quick refresh on how to apply your stars on it website: I copy/paste: * Not Recommended - Which means something like ?OMG! This levels stinks, it's awful, it's really not very good AT ALL! Yuck!? ** Needs Work - Hmm, Not bad, the Creator needs to change that bit? ?and that bit? ?and possibly that bit and then it could be OK *** Worth Playing - Pretty average, not great but not awful, you know, it?ll do. Or maybe there?s something about this level that people have to see and you want other people to know that. **** Very Good - Now we?re talking! This could be a level that someone has spent a lot of time on and it shows (maybe great artwork or fun gameplay, etc). You shouldn?t give 4 Stars lightly unless you really enjoyed it so really make that stern face and consider before you rate it. ***** Must Play! - Ok, so you?ve just played a level that has left you stunned, there?s a huge smile on your face and your hands are shaking. You?ve just played a level worth rating 5 Stars, the epitome of ratings. You need to let everyone know so rate away! (no stern face this time because you just know it's worth 5 stars). In the future, ratings will help us all find those hidden gems and reward all the hard work from the Creators but more about that in the future. DIRECT_LINK (http://www.mediamolecule.com/)

2009-01-10 19:14:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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Concerning hearts, Mm did a quick refresh on how to apply your stars on it website: I copy/paste: DIRECT_LINK (http://www.mediamolecule.com/) Unfortunately this will not solve any of the problems that I brought up *sigh*. I think the whole rating system really needs to be revamped and fast.

2009-01-11 06:21:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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OK, here are my thoughts on the subject. I believe many levels have very inaccurate ratings and tags. I don't believe they are as often inaccurate as people think. To me hearts are mostly just a way of showing to me and my friends I liked this level you should play it or maybe I will later. Consequently because it shows publicly how many hearts it has it affects to some degree how much it is played. I believe hearting a level thats good is not as mandatory as it was when I first bought the game because since then star ratings have been made public. Now I heart levels for the reason I mentioned above. For that reason I either heart a level that has strong replay value or one that was good enough I am willing to keep it on my hearted list so my friends will play it. Its not so much that I am being stingey with my hearts just I don't think I will play it again and its not good enough to recommend to others. There are many good levels out there they are just really hard to find, so when you find one heart it so its easy for others to find. Hearts and ratings kind of go hand in hand for me. The ratings system as we all know puts 5 stars at must play, 4 stars at very good and 3 worth playing. I don't think people should be surprised they arent getting 5 star levels. A 5 star level means somehow this author made a level that is incredible, not only is it incredible it fits the taste of everyone that plays so everyone enjoyed it. The number of 5 star levels can be counted on one hand. Now don't get confused because I have rated many levels 5 stars but then someone else rates it 3 and it is no longer a 5 star level. For the most part levels get the ratings they deserve. If the majority of people rate a level 5 stars but then an 8th of them rate it 3 stars it is now a 4 star level and it should be. 5 Stars does not only mean must play, but if a level manages to retain 5 stars for very long it means everyone must play this level. 4 Stars is a rating to be proud of. Now back to hearting. As I said earlier I heart levels largely for others to see what I have hearted. I heart almost all levels I give a 4 or 5 star rating and occasionally I will heart a level I give 3 stars if it was something I think my friends should see. To be honest I believe rating and feedback should all be done subjectively with the exception of level reviews. If people rate subjectively levels will accurately show how many people liked it, what percentage chance you will enjoy it. Here is an example: If 100 people play 1 level 50 of which give it 5 stars and 50 give it 3 stars then the level has a 4 star rating. 50 people thought the level was amazing 50 thought it was pretty good. Now the level has a 4 star rating and a player sees it. That player now knows there is a pretty good chance he will love it. In fact there is about a 50% chance he will love it and a 50% chance he will think its average. Obviously we cant know the exact percentage of what people rated a level but seeing the ratings we can calculate a rough percentage of our chances of liking that level. Ratings simply reflect the averages of all the ratings given. My point is we just need to rate levels based off how much we liked it and the averages will be calculated automatically. Now the problem comes in when one player is stupid and sees a high play high rating level and decides to give it a bad rating to stick it to the man. The fact is people do heart for heart trades all the time. There is really no way to avoid this so its best just to work around it. Hearts no longer reflect whether or not the level is good and they dont have to. We have star ratings for that. Hearts allow players to tag levels for themselves and there friends to see. False hearts hardly matter at that point because if you play the levels a person has hearted and it sucks you just dont play that persons hearted levels anymore. If you go look at the levels on my hearted list they are levels I recommend you go play. If you play the levels I have hearted and don't like them that means we have different tastes and you should just avoid my hearted list. I see many people saying they like to heart levels because they think its good and thats exactly what you should do. Now the fact is that if you see a level with a lot of hearts AND a good rating the level is most likely really good. The chances that a bunch of idiots ruined the rating and the heart ratio is rather unlikely. My overall point is this. People have different tastes. Ratings show averages and for that reason essentially show percentage chance of you liking the level. Hearts are for making it easier for friends to find and for your own personal reference (like a level collection) and for this reason hearts can also reflect how many people recommend that level. The system is made for subjective and honest ratings and should be treated as such. Hearts are often abused to get trophies but you can get past that with the ratings and just use hearts to recommend levels. If you don't agree with me awesome, because people disagreeing is the only reason humans are still alive. I would also like to point out I think ninjamicwz had a really great idea. An organized list of rated levels in your list would be excellent.

2009-01-21 13:14:00 Author: Hexagohn Posts: 335

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Great thread, the original post was well thought out and has attracted a lot of fantastic replies. Hearting: 1. HEARTING IS NOT A PRIVILEGE! I am amazed when I look at some peoples hearted levels and there is only one page. Wtf? There are so many high quality levels out there that deserve hearts but simply don't get the exposure they deserve and therefore go unnoticed. Let me assure you that you are not a discerning gamer if you only have a handful of levels hearted. If anything, it makes you look arrogant and gives the impression that you carry an air of superiority and only hand out a hearts at the rate of one per month as if they were precious diamonds that are in short supply. This is the only part I disagree with. Firstly, when I look at another author I think it only shows a selection of the levels they have hearted. Secondly, I don't have loads of hearted levels, and here's the reason why: I HATE the menu system for looking through levels. I haven't got the patience to trawl through page after page, continent after continent, just to find a level I want to replay. Just give me a list, I really have no time for the cute spinning globe. It's cumbersome and inhibits my ability to navigate community levels, my hearted levels and my moon. I only use hearts as a form of bookmarking and I only use star ratings to indicate the quality of the level. The reasons for bookmarking are: (1) I'd like to play this again (2) I'd like to show this to my friends as an example of what can be achieved in LBP (3) This level has an idea I would like to use in one of my levels An example would be LBP calculator falls under category (2), I don't want to play it again but I do want to show other people. Ultimately I think hearts and ratings need to be clarified/rebranded. Calling them hearts and linking to Trophies implies you are rating the level over and above the 5 start system. Hearts should be changed to favourites/bookmarks (and the globe abandoned), the rating system should work as follows: Ratings have a "half-life". As an individual rating ages, it contributes less to the overall rating of a level. So the most recent ratings are the most relevant. If a level from Nov 08 is still getting 5 star ratings in Jan 09 it clearly deserves to be on the front page, but if it stops getting ratings it will be easier for a 5 star level from Jan 09 to get on the front page. Everyone's making good points about the heart system, and what it's used for... I wish we could organize our hearted levels into prioritized tiers and lists to coordinate with our own star ratings - like music players. Even though every song isn't you favorite, 5 star perfection, it doesn't mean you don't want it on the playlist and want to listen to it sometimes. A list in general would be great, because the rotating planet is a nightmare if you've got more than one page. Agreed, much like iTunes has "coverflow" and "list" view, LBP should have "globe" and "list" view. Have it as a list which also shows the star rating you gave that level, give you the ability to sort the level list by "newest" "your rating" "overall rating"

2009-01-21 14:37:00 Author: EastwoodAndy Posts: 70

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i've got some different opinion regarding the easy star aplliance. i've rarelly give 5 stars, but i do sometimes and i surelly try to be precise in my judgements. i'm a level creator and i have my way of thinking regarding a well designed and worth playing level. i've got 4 level published so far and only one of them has 4 stars...the other 3 have only 3 stars and i know why.... i know were are the problems and i'm allways trying to change the detaisl that can make the game experience better. so i guess that i'm a good level judge and i agree with OCK when he says that we have to be objective. i've forgot to say something that i simply don't agree with.......... HEART FOR A HEART no way..... i don't give hearts waiting for something in return... if someone writes that to me i usually don't even pass througt their levels because i realized that most of the time the people that ask for hearts don't disearve them... ths may seems cruel but it's just my humble opinion...

2009-01-21 15:11:00 Author: misterwonderloo Posts: 164

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Egads a double post! Gonna get a warning for that one unless your a repeat offender! OCK wasn't supporting H4H mindsets, just the opposite actually.

2009-01-21 16:00:00 Author: Hexagohn Posts: 335

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I have to agree here. I downright refuse people that ask h4h, because I'd rather earn it. About hearting, I heart levels that are better than I could have done. I wish the trophy was off ratings: It's like rating dictionary.com the best website in the world, because so many people "heart" it or favourite it, so they can use it for homework. Hearts shouldn't have anything to do with a level's rating, they are just a tool for marking your favourite level. I feel good in this forum so I think the most members are quite my age (31). Ha! I'm only 14, but before you screw your nose up at me, realise that I'm very bright for the average 14 year old: I don't have pleasure in making a giant rocket level, or an X rated one for that matter Star ratings are useless, tbh, the rating is screwed up. Play my level, then tell me it is deserving of 2/5 stars, even though it is unfinished! I mean, it's tagged as short, even when there is a W.I.P sign above the score board, I say that it is half the size of what it will be and it is longer than the average crap H4H level anyway! As for ESC. well, I try to rate fairly, but sometimes, even if they tried their hardest, they need to realise that practice makes perfect. Also, just an idea, I think hearts should be permenant, and stars should only last one or two months. This way if a level improves heaps, it isn't tarnished by its former reputation.

2009-01-22 00:12:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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OCK wasn't supporting H4H mindsets, just the opposite actually. Exactly. How did you interpret everything I wrote as supporting H4H? lol. Read through it all again. I personaly think the whole H4H thing is one of the biggest problems this game has and anytime someone leaves a comment on my levels saying "heart me and I heart u" I delete it

2009-01-22 00:24:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Good thread! I don't do a search for Highest Rated any more as far too many are a load of guff created by people who obviously have a lot of friends - the only reason I can see as to why they got 5 stars when I would give it 3 on a very good day ) I have hearted people who I think are genius - and their levels usually just 3 star! - so I can keep tabs on anything new they publish and to flick through creators that they have hearted: the only way to find great levels I think; Highest Rated & Most Hearted is a complete waste of time

2009-01-22 09:15:00 Author: Unknown User

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Totally agree. Since you're new here, check this out: go to the "Showcase" section. Go down through the list and see the quality of games people are creating here. Many of them are absolutely phenominal, and far surpass anything you will find on the highest rated. Here's a few ones I've really enjoyed lately (not in any particular order): Takelow - any game this guy makes will astound you. OCK - Legion - beautiful and a lot of fun Blorf - Metal Revolution. On MM's picks this month. Tough, but if you stick it out is really rewarding. Just need to get used to the wheel mechanics. JonMartin - Apocalypse series. Fantastic story, surreal. Aer0blue - Razhoteps tomb CuzFeeshe (ok got to throw in one of my own) - Splat Invaders Saga. Why? Because it's just fun. But go through the whole list on the Showcase. Between it and the reviews section I don't need to look anywhere else for levels anymore.

2009-01-22 16:16:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Thank you CCubbage for that list. I have looked at the Showcase section; they all look very good but probably very hard & I am embarrassingly Bad. Might be able to manage LBP for Cry Babies without crying or dying in the first 10 seconds though ..... give some of them a go tonight, ta

2009-01-22 18:01:00 Author: Unknown User

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Unfortunately this will not solve any of the problems that I brought up *sigh*. I think the whole rating system really needs to be revamped and fast. I believe you are absolutely right. At this point, hearts don't really mean a lot. If you are good author and people respect your skills, they will look to see the levels and the authors you have put hearts on. This creates natural and useful links in LBP planet for finding the good stuff. I personally use this every day. Just the other day I looked at Aer0blue's hearted authors because I like his levels, got "OCK", jumped into "Legion" and had a really good time. Linked there into something else.... well, you get the idea. However, for a normal player of levels, the best it does is give the author a nice warm fuzzy that someone liked their level - unless they ALSO add a comment that says "H4H" which kind of ruins it. For now I'll treat hearts as an easy way to navigate through good stuff, and enjoy a few warm fuzzies. Just make sure you don't heart junk levels and send me on a wild goose chase.... ** Here would be my personal vote for changes: ** 1. I like hearts, however I agree that hearts work better as a navigation than as a "heart count". So, I agree with you on the earlier concept of getting rid of heart displays. 2. I love level ratings, but I also feel the only way it will ever truly be fair and meaningful is to a) require finishing a level before being able to rate it, and b) each person can only rate a level once. I realize there are downsides to this, however based on the weighted averaging they are using for the star ratings, it's just too easy to jump into a level, jump out, and rate it without ever completely experiencing it. This forces authors to have to "dumb down" their levels to get people to not rate it poorly. 3. Allow authors to set genres for their game. Each genre has a highest rated, but even levels that are on the highest rated should within a week or so automatically expire so that new high rated levels can work their way in. I've been playing with these features a lot lately, and they are giving me little knots in my stomach. Definately needs some improvement

2009-01-22 18:51:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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My level's rating was 5-stars when I published it, and stayed that way for the first 50 plays or so. I think it's because everyone who was interested in playing it sort of knew what they were getting into already, or at least had an open mind to a new concept. Now that it's been featured on MM picks, I have over 300 plays but the rating plummeted to 3-stars. I pretty much expected that, though, and it doesn't bother me. I'm assuming it's because the majority of players aren't quite as open to new concepts or knew what they were getting into to begin with... or just don't understand why I can't have the usual number of checkpoints all over the place. Sometimes when I jump into a level, I know that it's not the kind of level I like to play. For example, the difficulty may be much higher than I'd like. Does that make it a bad level? Not at all... but how can I say that it's a good level when I can't play it further? It's in these cases when I'd really like to abstain from rating. I wish there was a way to do that. It's for both of these reasons that I generally don't give much weight to the star rating.

2009-01-23 14:28:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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I heart it when I like to remind myself of the level, in whatever way. I mostly create though, eats up my play time . My level's rating was 5-stars when I published it, and stayed that way for the first 50 plays or so. I think it's because everyone who was interested in playing it sort of knew what they were getting into already, or at least had an open mind to a new concept. Now that it's been featured on MM picks, I have over 300 plays but the rating plummeted to 3-stars. I pretty much expected that, though, and it doesn't bother me. I'm assuming it's because the majority of players aren't quite as open to new concepts or knew what they were getting into to begin with... or just don't understand why I can't have the usual number of checkpoints all over the place. Sometimes when I jump into a level, I know that it's not the kind of level I like to play. For example, the difficulty may be much higher than I'd like. Does that make it a bad level? Not at all... but how can I say that it's a good level when I can't play it further? It's in these cases when I'd really like to abstain from rating. I wish there was a way to do that. It's for both of these reasons that I generally don't give much weight to the star rating. Well you said it yourself, your level is quite a tough one, if someone gets frustrated and quit, your not likely to get a good rating. I'm not saying you should make it easier though . It's like movies: big action films attract a huge crowd and nigh everyone who went to see it that it was great, although a bit shallow. Some very complicated thriller or drama film might not attract the crowd and the action-film people will not like it yet the critics will love it and it can be a great movie. The complicated thriller people will likely enjoy the action movie, but not the other way round. [QUOTE=dkjestrup;128636] Star ratings are useless, tbh, the rating is screwed up. Play my level, then tell me it is deserving of 2/5 stars, even though it is unfinished! I mean, it's tagged as short, even when there is a W.I.P sign above the score board, I say that it is half the size of what it will be and it is longer than the average crap H4H level anyway! [QUOTE] Well the 2 star rating is described: "needs work" and even if you notify it people hate an unfinished level. You might consider not publishing (or publishing it locked) until you finish it. If I were playing levels and came across an unfinished level I'd wonder why the creator has published the darned thing and likely not rate highly.

2009-01-23 14:58:00 Author: Wyth Posts: 263

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**** I gotta say, last night I had a FANTASTIC experience. **** It kind of echoes what Risen is saying. I had a level called "Jacques the Acadian Warlord". I spent WEEKS on this thing. In many ways, it was a technical nightmare that I wished would end. I published it and within the first day had 3 stars and comments such as "this level sucks" and "offensive!". I felt like someone had kicked me in the teeth. Then, it dropped to 2 stars and no one would play it anymore. So, I deleted it from LBP, republished it, and locked it so no one could get in it anymore. About a week ago I had to restore from a backup and accidentally published it unlocked again. No problem though, not a single play for a week.... (ok, that was the sad part) Last night I'm sitting watching my son play LBP. All of the sudden, a message pops up saying "Jacques the Acadian Warlord as 1 play!". Followed by "Jacques the Acadian Warlord has 1 heart". I was stunned. I asked my boy if I could go see what had happened. I went over to the comments section and it was a message from OCK (by the way, I had never really been in a conversation with him on this site, however he was in my hearted authors and I had hearted "The Legion" so I was definately a fan). The comment read something like "Loved it. 5 stars and a heart". (he also took the time to explain the areas he liked about the game). Soon after it was followed by several more plays and it kept the 5 star rating. Needless to say, he made my week! It took several hours for the grin to wear off. But it definately shows, it really MATTERS who plays your game. I'm not so worried about play count anymore. I just like the feeling that those that played my game enjoyed it. By the way (for Risen): I have been watching Metal Revolution and have been STEAMING about some of the comments on the level. I think we should go out there, find the people who think you should change your game, tie them down, and MAKE them play it long enough to get good at it. Just another reason for having better ways to steer the appropriate people into the game. (can you believe someone put a comment on Metal Revolution suggesting that EVERY GAME should have double life checkpoints constantly?????? I think I need a sedative!)

2009-01-23 16:04:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I was stunned. I asked my boy if I could go see what had happened. I went over to the comments section and it was a message from OCK (by the way, I had never really been in a conversation with him on this site, however he was in my hearted authors and I had hearted "The Legion" so I was definately a fan). The comment read something like "Loved it. 5 stars and a heart". (he also took the time to explain the areas he liked about the game). Soon after it was followed by several more plays and it kept the 5 star rating. Needless to say, he made my week! It took several hours for the grin to wear off. But it definately shows, it really MATTERS who plays your game. I'm not so worried about play count anymore. I just like the feeling that those that played my game enjoyed it. Yeah the level was great and after you sent me a message that it was previously published with a 2 star rating I was stunned. It just goes to show how messed up the rating system is. The other thing I noticed is that those who always leave non-sensical comments like "your camera zones made me dizzy" or "your level has too much lighting" etc are people who have the worst levels imaginable. Everytime everyone leaves a comment on my lvls in-game I always repay the courtesy by checking out their levels and leaving comments of my own and the ones who "bash" my creations always have the worst possible creations while those who actually have talent will praise the level and provide feedback that is valuable. This is another interesting psychology that I have observed. [B] My level's rating was 5-stars when I published it, and stayed that way for the first 50 plays or so. I think it's because everyone who was interested in playing it sort of knew what they were getting into already, or at least had an open mind to a new concept. Now that it's been featured on MM picks, I have over 300 plays but the rating plummeted to 3-stars. This is another interesting point. We all want our levels to have more exposure but it seems like if your level finally get that exposure, then the rating and heart2play ratio goes down. What can we attribute this too? I personally think it has to do with a lot more "players" playing the level vs "player/creators" who in general have a better appreciation for how things are made and the time it takes to make a high-quality level.

2009-01-24 04:48:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Intesting thought on the heart2play ratio: Since each time a single person goes in to play a level the play counts, but a player can only put a heart on it once, levels that are decent but have no replay value will have a better ratio than a level that is FANTASTIC and HAS replay value (because people play it more than once which throws off the ratio). So, the moral is: if you want a good heart2play ratio make sure you make your level pretty and easy (and for goodness sake, don't put anything in there that will encourage multiple plays). I found this out the hard way with Dante's Temple. People kept playing it over and over to try to get the high score, which decimated my ratio (it's only 10% now....). Dude from Russia said he had played it about 20 times to get the high score.

2009-01-24 23:46:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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So, the moral is: if you want a good heart2play ratio make sure you make your level pretty and easy (and for goodness sake, don't put anything in there that will encourage multiple plays) I totally agree. But finally, what is a good heart/play ratio? Is 1/15 good? Is 1/10 good? Is 1/5 good? Personnaly, i think that 1/10 is good enough...

2009-01-25 08:02:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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I totally agree. But finally, what is a good heart/play ratio? Is 1/15 good? Is 1/10 good? Is 1/5 good? Personnaly, i think that 1/10 is good enough... On Dante's Temple I have had a 10% heart ratio since publishing it. At this point I have 10% with over 1100 plays, so I think it is pretty fair. Splat Invaders Saga has about 20%, but people keep playing it multiple times so I have absolutely no idea what the REAL ratio is. On your "The Bearer II" level I played it 3 times. Once for initial testing, once to get through it, and once just because it was fun. I'm only allowed to give it 1 heart, though. Which is my point.... if people play a level multiple times it totally throws off the ratio and it doesn't really MEAN anything. In the past few days I played "Out of Africa" 4 times, which throws OCK's heart ratio completely off.... but that's his fault because the monkey arms were driving me crazy (but they were a lot of fun!!!) (in my head I'm kind of imagining that every single person who plays Spat Invaders Saga gives it a heart, but they all play an average of 5 times each... mainly to perfect their scores in the bovine antigravity chamber.... I know it probably isn't true, but it makes me happy)

2009-01-25 13:02:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Intesting thought on the heart2play ratio: Since each time a single person goes in to play a level the play counts, but a player can only put a heart on it once, levels that are decent but have no replay value will have a better ratio than a level that is FANTASTIC and HAS replay value (because people play it more than once which throws off the ratio). So, the moral is: if you want a good heart2play ratio make sure you make your level pretty and easy (and for goodness sake, don't put anything in there that will encourage multiple plays). I found this out the hard way with Dante's Temple. People kept playing it over and over to try to get the high score, which decimated my ratio (it's only 10% now....). Dude from Russia said he had played it about 20 times to get the high score. Another great point. I already played Voltiare's H.A.T.E 2 and I will be going back for more soon to ACE the level and reclaim the top spot lol. So yes, this is definitely another important factor that affects the H2P ratio. Personnaly, i think that 1/10 is good enough... I agree. I think 10% is respectable and as Ccubbage pointed out it still isn't a fair representation of a levels "true" H2P ration. I am pretty sure MM could patch the game so that each person can only have one play that counts towards the levels total plays so it is definitely something else for them to look into.

2009-01-27 00:21:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Howdy! I just wanted to say, that I heart only as a "fsvourites list" type thing. I don't see the hearts as some gift to give but it's a way for me to bookmark levels I like.

2009-01-27 07:50:00 Author: Michelle_NZ Posts: 4

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Reading CCubage's post makes me hate the LBP audience. On Time is of the Essence the other day I got a comment "This is the worst dialogue in a level. Ever." I rarely ever get comments, and occasionally they're good, but always get lost in repuiblish floods... even though I know full well that he's scientifically, factually and objectively 100% wrong and simply cannot understand what I wrote and why, it still infuriated me and made me feel like crap. I try so hard to find positives in peoples levels, and people in general... and I can't stand to see someone torn down and ripped apart. I just do not understand the animosity and ignorance people have, not just with LBP, but with life in general. There are so many people waiting to be vicious and mean to someone, or are just so serious or full of themselves that all they see are their own thoughts and actions without consequence or remorse.

2009-01-27 12:10:00 Author: Unknown User

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Reading CCubage's post makes me hate the LBP audience. On Time is of the Essence the other day I got a comment "This is the worst dialogue in a level. Ever." I rarely ever get comments, and occasionally they're good, but always get lost in repuiblish floods... even though I know full well that he's scientifically, factually and objectively 100% wrong and simply cannot understand what I wrote and why, it still infuriated me and made me feel like crap. I try so hard to find positives in peoples levels, and people in general... and I can't stand to see someone torn down and ripped apart. I just do not understand the animosity and ignorance people have, not just with LBP, but with life in general. There are so many people waiting to be vicious and mean to someone, or are just so serious or full of themselves that all they see are their own thoughts and actions without consequence or remorse. I agree 100%. It's the vicious circle, negativity breeding negativity and all that jazz. This also relates to what I said about ECS. Some of these creators just can't be bothered to compliment other creators and take the time to check out other levels, particularly those levels that really have little exposure, because their ego's get in the way. I also got an amusing comment on one of my levels today, something like "your camera zones were infuriating" lol. At times like this I think to myself how is it that out of the million and one things the person could say about my lvl they chose to say this? Some people's attitudes really are mind-boggling...

2009-01-27 12:32:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Reading CCubage's post makes me hate the LBP audience. Not sure what you mean by this? Do you mean people like CCubage? I get a few nasty comments on my levels also. And when I say nasty I mean nasty and not constructive critisism. Almost always this is from someone who has either never published a level of their own or if they have it's either called "1 million points" or "1 million prizes" so I don't really pay much attention to them. I work as a Designer and because of this I am used to people being critical of my work. One thing I know that is that its impossible to please everybody. And after playing one of your levels (the one with the ship at the start), I can see that what you do will divide people. Personally I think its good thing, I think your levels have wonderful dialog and I enjoyed it as it is. But you will have other people, and remember there are a lot of people who play the game that are just kids not wanting to think very hard on a level. I'll always remember something a teacher once told me. "I'd rather fail than get a "C", at least that way you have done something defiinitive"

2009-01-27 12:39:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Not sure what you mean by this? Do you mean people like CCubage? I get a few nasty comments on my levels also. And when I say nasty I mean nasty and not constructive critisism. Almost always this is from someone who has either never published a level of their own or if they have it's either called "1 million points" or "1 million prizes" so I don't really pay much attention to them. I work as a Designer and because of this I am used to people being critical of my work. One thing I know that is that its impossible to please everybody. And after playing one of your levels (the one with the ship at the start), I can see that what you do will divide people. Personally I think its good thing, I think your levels have wonderful dialog and I enjoyed it as it is. But you will have other people, and remember there are a lot of people who play the game that are just kids not wanting to think very hard on a level. I'll always remember something a teacher once told me. "I'd rather fail than get a "C", at least that way you have done something defiinitive" No, I meant the audience in reference to the people trashing his level. I know that you can't always hit the broad audience, and I take pride in a niche that I can fit in, I just make levels that I like first and foremost, and then toss them to the wind. I don't expect to really please everyone, or really many at all. I've just never been the type of person to be very divisive and adamant with my taste and opinions, and although I understand why people are, I never see the justification or logic in holding a negative belief so firmly. In music you always have people that hate abstract, independant, or underground music and trash it and the people who listen to it - and vice versa, you have people who only listen to anti-mainstream and trash the other side. I've always appreciated both, and gave up on any sense of elitism long ago... I'm a very open and fair person with critique and subjective reasoning, and I rarely trash anybody no matter how abstract and niche, or how mainstream and pop. heh... I was a barber and stylist for 7 years, believe it or not. It was great to have a craft and a creative field, but I definitely know that no matter how good you are at what you do you simply cannot please some people. There is always a fun challenge in overcoming the most ridiculous of nitpickers though. I learned alot about people in those years. I really like that saying btw... that is so wise.

2009-01-27 13:52:00 Author: Unknown User

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No, I meant the audience in reference to the people trashing his level. Well, I'm in my happy place now. "Jacques the Acadian Warlord" which was universally panned by LBP is now a nice little 20-play level with 4 stars and nice friendly comments and I am NEVER publishing again (only mentioning it on this forum), "Dante's Temple" is a nice friendly level with a scary name which has 4 stars but no one leaves comments, and I don't think anyone would ever put a bad comment on "Splat Invaders Saga" because it is like kicking a puppy. So I've reached that "Zen" state and my mission is now to help improve other people's levels. Play count doesn't even mean anything to me - I think people here enjoying my levels ended up being much more important than the number of random plays I was getting in general. "This is the worst dialogue in a level. Ever." I rarely ever get comments, and occasionally they're good, but always get lost in repuiblish floods... even though I know full well that he's scientifically, factually and objectively 100% wrong and simply cannot understand what I wrote and why, it still infuriated me and made me feel like crap. You have to feel sorry for some of these people - their parents never taught them how to be constructive. And unfortunately, this is probably married with a lack of intelligence that won't let them enjoy seeing and reading things that are really enjoyable. I think the only time this kind of comment really worried me was the "Offensive ]:<" comment I got on Jacques. Mainly because I like the fact that I'm not prejudice and enjoy all kinds of people, and I really wished the person would have told me WHY the game was offensive. edit: one last comment. Can someone at MM please just get rid of the "republish" flood and just have a single "Last published on...."? And if I delete a message have it go away instead of saying "deleted"? It would make less network traffic for you, and let me have a nice comment list....

2009-01-27 15:22:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I couldn't agree more with OCK. I've been frustrated with the lack of feedback on my levels too. I have a level with 4 plays but only 1 finish and the tag was "Annoying." As a creator I immediately went to the feedback section to find out why it was annoying so I could fix whatever was bugging the player - only to discover NO FEEDBACK?!? I think the flipside of the whole hearts thing is - if you leave a negative tag on a level - PLEASE let the creator know what it was that made you feel that way. I know I'd prefer to know so I can improve my levels. Elbee23 states it perfectly for me too - I create for myself. It's what drives me to spend insane amounts of time tweaking the little things. I really do rely on the feedback - not so much because I want hearts - but I genuinely want the levels to be fun. I'm 34 (for the record.)

2009-01-27 17:42:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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I think it bugs me most when people leave negative comments about things that are obviously their own fault.

2009-01-27 18:01:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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I couldn't agree more with OCK. I've been frustrated with the lack of feedback on my levels too. I have a level with 4 plays but only 1 finish and the tag was "Annoying." As a creator I immediately went to the feedback section to find out why it was annoying so I could fix whatever was bugging the player - only to discover NO FEEDBACK?!? I think the flipside of the whole hearts thing is - if you leave a negative tag on a level - PLEASE let the creator know what it was that made you feel that way. I know I'd prefer to know so I can improve my levels. Elbee23 states it perfectly for me too - I create for myself. It's what drives me to spend insane amounts of time tweaking the little things. I really do rely on the feedback - not so much because I want hearts - but I genuinely want the levels to be fun. I'm 34 (for the record.) One GREAT solution to this is to use the showcase area on this forum. Maybe: Use a lock level to lock a key using a combination (if you don't have one, I have a copyable lock level under CuzFeeshe that you could use). Keep the level locked, but publish the combination to the key on this forum so people can look at it and give you feedback to help you perfect it BEFORE publicly publishing it. This worked GREAT for Splat Invaders Saga because I got the possibly frustrating kinks out before general people could play it (did it a little differently... I sent the lock combination to people on my friends list. I think it bugs me most when people leave negative comments about things that are obviously their own fault. True... and I couldn't agree more when I see some of the comments on Metal Revolution. Anytime you give everyone the ability to have a voice and a negative effect on you there is going to be a problem. With a lot of the younger players it is the ONLY time they have a voice (normally their parents and teachers tell them what to do), so in this "gaming universe" they feel empowered. I suppose it is one of those unavoidable things about something as great as LittleBigPlanet. If I was Media Molecule I would DEFINATELY get rid of the hurtful tags. My 6-year-old likes to publish his levels, and I don't mind if people don't put nice tags, but as a parent I get frustrated when people are able to apply hurtful tags - I want him to have fun too and there should at least be an ILLUSION of people liking his game. At least you can delete stupid comments. (I THINK you are referring to that no-talent ummm.. kid... who tried to tell you that every level should have double-life constant checkpoints because no one wanted to play a level twice.... even though your checkpoints are intricately positioned in your game for best gameplay).

2009-01-27 18:02:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Great Idea - I'll need to check that out tonight when I get back on LPB. Thanks for he advice.

2009-01-27 18:08:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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I totally agree. But finally, what is a good heart/play ratio? Is 1/15 good? Is 1/10 good? Is 1/5 good? Personnaly, i think that 1/10 is good enough... 1:10 is good enough and I find more often than not, levels that meet this are at least decent and worth my time spent playing them. I find absolutely zero difference between levels with 1:10 and 1:5 ratios. I think the key difference between these levels has to do with familiarity. Hell, Dinos Island has a 1:5 ratio and my personal feeling is that this level is mediocre-decent at best (It's not bad, and I respect the amount of custom content, but it could be LOADS better). But, its got reputation and familiarity, and is THE prehistoric dino experience in LBP (until something better comes along). Similar "boosts" come from video-game-inspired stuff, or movies, etc. you get the idea. Another anecdote. I have a tech demo level that I have not republished since it was released... on its own steam, it has garnered up a 1:5 play ratio, 20 hearts and 100 plays... with a few more plays every day. By all logic, this level should have fallen off the face of the levels page into the abyss WEEKS AGO given that its nothing more than riding a really cool vehicle 100 feet in the dark to a scoreboard with a photobooth on the way. The level took me 20 minutes to make (though I spend close to 20 hours on the vehicle which is for an upcoming level). In contrast, my 60-70-whatever hour "Idol" level which I busted my butt on, is probably only about 1:8, and I have to republish constantly to keep the plays coming. So yeah, you can use the ratio as a cutoff when selecting levels blindly. I don't often play levels that aren't 1:10 unless I find a post somewhere telling me I need to try it. And while star ratings are nigh useless, I think a 4 star rating is pretty important. Lots of garbage is still rated 4 stars though so be careful. 5 stars? Right, give me a break. Too many haters and lazy people out there...

2009-01-27 18:12:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Even the most basic and juvenile levels: I often look at them as an interactive version of stick figure drawings, and see the ripe imagination of a budding mind. It has value and can be appreciated in it's own way. When you think back to being able to use your imagination and enact grand scenarios in your mind with army guys, stick swords, and secret base drawings - you see that the spirit of boundless creative energy that really is LBP. It brings out the kid in all of us. Imagine if Ramp was your child's first level... like their first drawing? You'd frame it up on the fridge, and tell them how good it is to nurture the artist in them. lol... anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but basically looking past the face value of a thing is really the only way to truly understand it, and thus the only way to have an informed, mature and rational opinion on the article in question. The moral of the story, is that even when thinking critically, you'll never be able to properly critique something without approaching everything in life with an open mind... at the least you'd fail to be justified in your conclusions. That's a really good point. Some of these levels are being made by younger players. If I perceive that a level is from a younger creator - I really try to leave a positive feedback for them. There's nothing that can hurt young imaginations more than being told their brand of creativity is "Rubbish" or "Daft". It would be nice if there were a way to have broad age categories listed on levels to leave appropriate levels of criticism/praise. Although users could always lie about their age I suppose.

2009-01-27 19:33:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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On Time is of the Essence the other day I got a comment "This is the worst dialogue in a level. Ever." This guy certainly never played my levels...lol:hero:

2009-01-27 19:35:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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This guy certainly never played my levels...lol:hero: Maybe that's how they actually talk in middle earth.... I've never actually been there! I personally respect your being multi-lingual and being able to write full, understandable english sentences. Here in the US we've got to be the LAZIEST people on the planet when it comes to learning another language (we have the attitude "everyone else should learn english"). I passed French in high school and the only thing I could say is "Hi. My pencil is red. Thank you very much.". We should be smacked. uh... I think I stepped off the subject... moderator?....

2009-01-27 19:45:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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(I THINK you are referring to that no-talent ummm.. kid... who tried to tell you that every level should have double-life constant checkpoints because no one wanted to play a level twice.... even though your checkpoints are intricately positioned in your game for best gameplay). I'm actually referring to the "your level is too dark" comments. The lighting in my level is dark, yes, but I've carefully placed the light sources so that hazards and switches are clearly visible. If it's still too dark, either your television is set improperly or you are playing in an environment which is not good for viewing (daylight, glare, etc.) Either way, not my fault, and I'm not going to sacrifice the experience for the players who are not too lazy to do something about it. (Even you may not have noticed, but the ambient light is brighter near the ending than it is near the beginning... because there's more there that needs to be seen. There's a gigantic cyan-colored LED light up in the sky so it retains the 'moonlight' feeling while adding additional lighting. The beginning is definitely darker outside... but it's all flat surfaces and quite easily navigated!)

2009-01-27 20:09:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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Ah! Gotcha. I saw that one too. I had 2 similar posts in Dante's Temple. I kind of pictured someone sitting in front of an old cathode ray tube television where the tube was going bad and they had the brightness up all the way already.... I also saw that exact same comment on 3 other levels that tried to create kind of a "night" ambience (including the 'mine' level by Geosautus).

2009-01-27 20:47:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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uh... I think I stepped off the subject... moderator?.... Well, I'm still hear and listening. I don't think it's that bad a thing to have a joke or a one off off-topic comment. Evil-doers beware! I'll crush spammers and off-topicers! :kz: :blush: Err... Well, the point is we are reading this. We don't try and step in to every single point though. That's just silly. The topic is broad and deep enough to allow for light hearted comments.

2009-01-28 11:07:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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I updated the first post which I have included here as well so no one misses it: The Clique Mentality I wanted to update the post with another observation I made regarding people who clique. There have been quite a few people who have joined these forums from other forums who knew eachother ahead of time. It seems these people are only commentng on eachothers threads and hearting eachothers levels. What is that all about guys/girls? It's definitely not a good way to integrate yourself into a new community and besides that you are missing out on some really great levels lol! I honestly can't understand this kind of mentality but I am interested in other people's thoughts.

2009-01-28 23:15:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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I don't understand what you mean by "clique." They only play/heart members of their clique's levels? If that's the case, what a waste. I've been checking out levels using references from LBP Central but not exclusively. I think this site and sites like it are great resources but if you limit yourself to members of that group only - you miss out on some excellent play.

2009-01-28 23:37:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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I don't understand what you mean by "clique." They only play/heart members of their clique's levels? If that's the case, what a waste. I've been checking out levels using references from LBP Central but not exclusively. I think this site and sites like it are great resources but if you limit yourself to members of that group only - you miss out on some excellent play. That's exactly what I mean and what a waste indeed. *sigh*, I just don't get it lol. Btw I played and hearted you TRON lvl yesterday, you should make a thread

2009-01-28 23:43:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Yes OCK, i observe this "clique" problem too... It is so chilfish... There is also peoples that NEVER take a look to the showcase threads, never wrote a true comment on these thread (never but:" great!", "your level good!"), but try to promote a lot of levels that are absolutely not from the forum members. It is not a problem in itself, but i think that when taking part in a community, members should start by commenting community members levels... I don't understand people that take part in a community only to promote an other community...

2009-01-29 07:20:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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Maybe that's how they actually talk in middle earth.... I've never actually been there! I personally respect your being multi-lingual and being able to write full, understandable english sentences. Here in the US we've got to be the LAZIEST people on the planet when it comes to learning another language (we have the attitude "everyone else should learn english"). I passed French in high school and the only thing I could say is "Hi. My pencil is red. Thank you very much.". We should be smacked. uh... I think I stepped off the subject... moderator?.... Lmao at the US thing, I must admit we are lazy, I passed Spanish 3 in high school and all I know right now is... Hi my name is, Can I Go To The Bathroom ( Lol, ) and a bunch of general stuff like... Pencil, Table, ( Most of the colors ) But when someone speaks in spanish to me, I don't understand a single sentence... I don't even know how I passed some of the classes... Lol.. On TOPIC : I must agree that there are some cliques around that heart/comment/play only each other's levels, which I find really weird... Doesn't make sense at all. But, what are you gonna do you know? Just give the game a year, all the trophy level creators, H4H people, and all the creators mentioned above ( cliques, doing it just for the trophy, etc... ) will all be gone. And when that happens, we will see an endless amount of amazing levels. Just wait, I called it.

2009-01-29 07:33:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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Just give the game a year, all the trophy level creators, H4H people, and all the creators mentioned above ( cliques, doing it just for the trophy, etc... ) will all be gone. And when that happens, we will see an endless amount of amazing levels. Just wait, I called it. Whos said dolphins were the cleverist sea animals out there! This is a very good point, in fact I don't think it will even take a full year, I think when sales die down a little a there is just a trickle of new people joining, it will be much less about attain hearts and much more about exploring some great levels. I also think that after a while there will be a lot better standard of levels being produced as the casual gamer who publishes 7 levels of "Unamed Level" will long since have moved on to Call of Duty 17, and the really passionate creators remain.

2009-01-29 09:51:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Whos said dolphins were the cleverist sea animals out there! This is a very good point, in fact I don't think it will even take a full year, I think when sales die down a little a there is just a trickle of new people joining, it will be much less about attain hearts and much more about exploring some great levels. I also think that after a while there will be a lot better standard of levels being produced as the casual gamer who publishes 7 levels of "Unamed Level" will long since have moved on to Call of Duty 17, and the really passionate creators remain. Soon after Christmas I went to my local game store and found a lot of second hand LBP games on the shelf. I pressed a sales assistant as to why, and his reply was that many people were returning the game when it came bundled with the PS3. There were I think about 8 of them, maybe 10% of all the second hand games they had on the shelves. I don't know if they tried it for 5 minutes and gave up, had some horrible save bug frustrate them to death or if they wanted "kill shoot twitch deluxe part 28" instead. But that number has died down to one or two on the shelves. It's interesting though people's tastes.

2009-01-29 14:24:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Lmao at the US thing, I must admit we are lazy, I passed Spanish 3 in high school and all I know right now is... Hi my name is, Can I Go To The Bathroom ( Lol, ) and a bunch of general stuff like... Pencil, Table, ( Most of the colors ) But when someone speaks in spanish to me, I don't understand a single sentence... I don't even know how I passed some of the classes... Lol.. On TOPIC : I must agree that there are some cliques around that heart/comment/play only each other's levels, which I find really weird... Doesn't make sense at all. But, what are you gonna do you know? Just give the game a year, all the trophy level creators, H4H people, and all the creators mentioned above ( cliques, doing it just for the trophy, etc... ) will all be gone. And when that happens, we will see an endless amount of amazing levels. Just wait, I called it. Hmmm, time will tell I suppose. I just wish more people would learn to be objective about things. I have some of the levels hearted of those forum members who are guilty of this behavior because that's what being objective is all about, judging a level purely on it's merits vs who made it and regardless of if they are your friend. This sort of behaviour is incredibly childish, especially since some of those doing it claim to be adults lol.

2009-01-31 08:52:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Just to add my opinion, I agree with most things in this thread, and I consider the best reward for my creative attempts is a really nice comment. I'd trade that for every heart on my levels, because when I read someone had a blast and laughed out loud playing my levels, it makes me feel like I've achieved something. Incidentally, I quite liked the idea someone posted about not publicly displaying hearts. I do slightly disagree with the original poster's comments on ratings. Whilst I'm sure there are people out there rating for 'spite', you should appreciate that the more exposure and plays your level gets, the less and less likely it is to be a five star rating. Opinions on levels are very broad, and even levels considered amazing by most will attract one or two star ratings occasionally, which impacts a five star average - there are no six star ratings out there to counterbalance this, it's the law of averages. The most amazing looking platformer out there could be called unoriginal and rated poorly by a minority, this is their opinion. I'm very happy to be maintaining a four star rating for two of my three levels, but would still be satisfied with three stars if it drops. I finally got some exposure for my level (and the two others I created by association) by getting onto IGN's Level-Lovers Anonymous (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/948/948174p1.html), which I recommend people do as it gave my playcount a real boost. And as a result I got some really great comments. I hate to see H4H in my comments section, it makes me feel dirty and used! Like I've just been shoehorned into some dodgy dealing I want no part in. If someone gives me a heart, let it be because they liked the level and will play it again, or show it to their mates. Don't involve me in your sordid trophy search!

2009-01-31 13:33:00 Author: WilsonPhillips-X Posts: 17

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I do slightly disagree with the original poster's comments on ratings. Whilst I'm sure there are people out there rating for 'spite', you should appreciate that the more exposure and plays your level gets, the less and less likely it is to be a five star rating. Opinions on levels are very broad, and even levels considered amazing by most will attract one or two star ratings occasionally, which impacts a five star average - there are no six star ratings out there to counterbalance this, it's the law of averages. The most amazing looking platformer out there could be called unoriginal and rated poorly by a minority, this is their opinion. I'm very happy to be maintaining a four star rating for two of my three levels, but would still be satisfied with three stars if it drops. Good point although a 5 star level is a 5 star level is a 5 star level. I also think there is a lot of narrow-mindedness which is to say certain people only enjoy one type of level over another. Personally I love high quality levels, period.

2009-02-02 09:14:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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One thing I've said many times and I STILL think this is an important issue - the more levels there are in LBP the more necessary it is to somehow have a genre system controlled by the author. Some way to keep people who like certain styles of gameplay away from games that they would not enjoy, and therefore rate poorly. For instance, Risen's "Metal Revolution".... his level is a puzzle-based level. It is NOT a standard platformer. So, if people who like puzzle genre's get steered properly the right people will be playing the right game and the star rating will be more fair for that genre. This also allows for better categorization of "highest rated", rather than have EVERY highest rated level being an easy platformer. 5 star rated levels - You know, the death of the 5-star rated level may simply be a math issue. I don't know the way they are rounding it out, but is a 4.95 rating 4 starts or 5? If it is 4 than you would need virtually EVERY rating on your level to be 5 to get a 5-star rating. They don't really show you the weighted-average decimal position. I see quite a few highest rated games which are 4-star. I personally have 6 4-star rated levels which I have never seen on the highest rated - but it tells me a 4 star could be darn NEAR 5 star.

2009-02-02 14:48:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I'm 100% behind the idea of creating genres, this would really improve level searching and star ratings that are a true reflection of the level quality. Like I said in a post a while back, make genres a separate tag after level completion, to allow players to decide what genre a level is in. This avoids the author having to pinpoint what he/she thinks their level is, and they would be purely objective categories, such as platformer, puzzler, mini-game, interactive story etc. The other tag could then be a subjective description like fun, brilliant, boring etc.

2009-02-02 17:05:00 Author: WilsonPhillips-X Posts: 17

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Well I wish I saw this thread from the start, because I'd have a lot more to say about it I'm sure. Read the first page and I must say I agree with you on every point. What I find interesting though are the creators who have created a pure masterpiece and still find the motivation to play through other levels without an inflated ego. It really is a tough thing to overcome, and I really respect the maturity that some creators show. One that comes to mind is our very own Jaeyden, as well as yourself OCK. Got my respect

2009-02-03 07:08:00 Author: Neverynnal Posts: 374

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Totally agree, but I'm not sure it's maturity after creating a masterpiece: a good game is a good game, and there's room for even the best designers to have fun playing other people's games if they are UNIQUE experiences. I gotta tell you, after playing "The Legion" and seeing OCK had given 5 stars and a heart to one of my games (I knew he did, because he was the ONLY person who had played it) I was floating for about 2 days. New authors: I can't tell you how important it is to use your own material. If you do a game that is almost the same as one out there, it may be great but no one will care. Need inspiration? Look at other levels for technique, but look AROUND you for material. I personally won't give a heart to anything I have seen before.

2009-02-03 16:26:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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[QUOTE="CCubbage"] New authors: I can't tell you how important it is to use your own material. If you do a game that is almost the same as one out there, it may be great but no one will care. Need inspiration? Look at other levels for technique, but look AROUND you for material. I personally won't give a heart to anything I have seen before. [QUOTE] I completely agree!!! New concept is the key to good levels... But a new concept didn't assure you the level will be good... Playing other's level is a great experience to discover new game mechanisms, and could be the source for new ideas though. But a good level is often a very personnal level. You take the OCK exemple, and if you see OCK levels, you will see a common and evident link between them. Some call this the spirit of the artist...

2009-02-03 19:09:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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I completely agree!!! New concept is the key to good levels... But a new concept didn't assure you the level will be good... Playing other's level is a great experience to discover new game mechanisms, and could be the source for new ideas though. But a good level is often a very personnal level. You take the OCK exemple, and if you see OCK levels, you will see a common and evident link between them. Some call this the spirit of the artist... Absolutely. Just because it's an original concept doesn't mean it's going to be a good game, but it should at least START there. If you build a good game, but it turns out it's the same as a bunch of other games what have you really accomplished? By the way, you ALSO have a very unique style. I've played through all your games and you have a really interesting way of looking at things. Many people can only see the different types of material, but you see a way to combine the material in ways that makes it look like something completely new - then you add light to make it glimmer and add life to it. I actually wander through your games for inspiration (I played your Egypt level the other day, and I have to tell you - using gas as a tornado running across the sand was fantastic. I had never seen THAT one before!)

2009-02-03 19:37:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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same here my level was rated 4 stars now its dropped down to 3. i wish people could put 10 seconds of their time to actually give a decent rating. i've seen really great levels have 2 stars because some jerk decides "hey this level is good but i'll rate it a one for the heck of it" or" hey this level is great oh wait the average is 3 oh well i'll rate it a 3".A decent vote that deserves it will mean alot to the creator and may motivate them to publish more great levels(someone in the post said this but can't remember lol). i'm glad this post has come up and people will put a bit more consideration when it comes to rating. I use F4F Published levels Summer island,Thrilling new Jurassic park level

2009-02-04 09:23:00 Author: elas12 Posts: 9

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I just had a look at some of the newest levels, to try and find some entertaining gems. Around 80% of them had 'plz heart' or something similar in the description (and 80% of those weren't even worthy of 3 or more of my stars). I did manage to find a pretty cool level, however, and gave it 4/5 stars Personally, I give hearts to levels that show a lot of hard work and dedication, and have great content and gameplay, levels that show great potential or levels that deviate from anything else, and play well.

2009-02-04 22:22:00 Author: Entity Posts: 274

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I just had a look at some of the newest levels, to try and find some entertaining gems. Around 80% of them had 'plz heart' or something similar in the description (and 80% of those weren't even worthy of 3 or more of my stars). I did manage to find a pretty cool level, however, and gave it 4/5 stars A big problem is that lots of medicore levels are somehow getting max exposure (10,000+ plays). I really don't know how this is happening but MM really needs to rethink the whole system. Off the top of my head I could name 30 levels from these forums that deserve to be on the first page of COOL LEVELS and HIGHEST RATED but they aren't.

2009-02-07 14:20:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Little random excerpt I found accidentally earlier on the internet (not from this site. Thought it was interesting. Copied it EXACTLY): ****************** EDIT: H.A.T.E._2 has been deleted, and Voltiare is currently reworking it. The Portal-esque features he's replacing the elevator room with are nothing short of mindblowing. Wait for it to come back, and play it. Also played a few gems lately - "Splat Invaders Saga" by CuzFeeshe - you guys will loves this, I promise. It's Space Invaders, breakout, a huge epic level, alien testing, and secret cow levels all rolled in one. It's a new bar for creators to reach IMO. "In the Belly of the Beast: Demonic Dark" by MostEvilMilo - an awesome spin on the giant body concept... you're in a whale looking for Jonah, and go through some hilarious and disturbing stuff to find him. The whale moves and dives, spinning the whole level, and it is a huge arena. Human sacrfice and extravagant death contraptions are the theme of choice here. It's a little rough around the edges in spots, but think of it like Blood Omen on crack and you'll have fun. EDIT: In the Belly of the Beast is now showcased by MM as one of their picks of the week. Shows I've got good taste ***************** Kind of cool seeing 3 levels from members here all put in one chunk. Kind of echoes what OCK is saying above. I honestly did not expect to see my level in there because I have NEVER done a single bit of advertising anywhere except in this one site.

2009-02-07 22:06:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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im gonna have to agree with you on that one... also out of jealousy, people will report things to moderate the level.... it happened to me once and i still cant find out what got moderated

2009-02-07 22:52:00 Author: Noremac469 Posts: 143

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Little random excerpt I found accidentally earlier on the internet (not from this site. Thought it was interesting. Copied it EXACTLY): ****************** EDIT: H.A.T.E._2 has been deleted, and Voltiare is currently reworking it. The Portal-esque features he's replacing the elevator room with are nothing short of mindblowing. Wait for it to come back, and play it. Also played a few gems lately - "Splat Invaders Saga" by CuzFeeshe - you guys will loves this, I promise. It's Space Invaders, breakout, a huge epic level, alien testing, and secret cow levels all rolled in one. It's a new bar for creators to reach IMO. "In the Belly of the Beast: Demonic Dark" by MostEvilMilo - an awesome spin on the giant body concept... you're in a whale looking for Jonah, and go through some hilarious and disturbing stuff to find him. The whale moves and dives, spinning the whole level, and it is a huge arena. Human sacrfice and extravagant death contraptions are the theme of choice here. It's a little rough around the edges in spots, but think of it like Blood Omen on crack and you'll have fun. EDIT: In the Belly of the Beast is now showcased by MM as one of their picks of the week. Shows I've got good taste ***************** Kind of cool seeing 3 levels from members here all put in one chunk. Kind of echoes what OCK is saying above. I honestly did not expect to see my level in there because I have NEVER done a single bit of advertising anywhere except in this one site. Really nice find man, good to see these levels are getting some exposure from total strangers across the internet.

2009-02-15 13:49:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Good point although a 5 star level is a 5 star level is a 5 star level. I also think there is a lot of narrow-mindedness which is to say certain people only enjoy one type of level over another. Personally I love high quality levels, period. Edit: Upon rereading the previous posts it seems I was a little off topic. Oh well. I would have to agree with that, I am a fan of high quality levels myself lol. Been a little while since I was in this thread but I think I will rejoin the conversation here. About 2 months ago some of my little brother's friends came over and they are like 11 and 10. I was showing them my level Timmy's Dream and they thought it was pretty cool but it was obvious they didn't think it was anything special. Then I let them choose a level and of course they loaded Ramp, I mean the crappy ramp where its impossible to stay on the skateboard. Anyway we went down the huge, blocky, effortlessly built jump and launched into the air and ran into a wall. The whole time my brothers friends are shouting and laughing, just having a ball. I sat there stunned for a few seconds. I was shocked anyone could like Ramp so much better than my level. Anyway my story does have a point. What is it that defines a level as being good or not? Well, most people on this forum would probably say its good if there was effort, competence and creativity displayed in the level but it is obvious my brother's friends didn't think so because Ramp has none of those qualities. They had fun playing it and so they liked it, they gave it 5 stars in fact when I had just watched them give Timmy's Dream and a few of my favorite levels 4 stars. My point is maybe Ramp and other crappy levels like dino dino land or whatever have high ratings because people like them. If thats the case shouldn't they have high ratings? Most the people on this forum like what we define as "good levels" but little kids wouldnt use this forum so they wouldnt be here anyway lol. Maybe something should be changed with the rating system but what? Can you ever "fix" the difference of human opinion? Maybe the problem is more than that, I didn't do a whole lot of research (sorry) but obviously someone liked ramp because they rated it high. Why would you rate it high unless you liked it? Anyway just some thoughts. On a side note H4H SUUUUCKKKS!

2009-02-25 16:33:00 Author: Hexagohn Posts: 335

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Very nice thread. I didn't notice it before for some reason. I think hearting is the most important feature in the game. It is also the best way to find great levels imo. WHEN YOU LIKE A LEVEL, HEART IT. .

2009-02-25 16:38:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I think hearting is the most important feature in the game. It is also the best way to find great levels imo. WHEN YOU LIKE A LEVEL, HEART IT. I think that rating is a better way to find good levels, there are too many H4Hers about falsely inflating the heart economy. You can find decent levels in the 'most hearted' search window, but I've also come across some real dreck. I'm not suggesting that the rating system is impervious to misuse, but I've found it to be a more reliable barometer of quality than hearts. That said, I do heart levels if I like them.

2009-02-25 17:35:00 Author: Boogaloo Posts: 254

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Little random excerpt I found accidentally earlier on the internet (not from this site. Thought it was interesting. Copied it EXACTLY): ****************** EDIT: H.A.T.E._2 has been deleted, and Voltiare is currently reworking it. The Portal-esque features he's replacing the elevator room with are nothing short of mindblowing. Wait for it to come back, and play it. Also played a few gems lately - "Splat Invaders Saga" by CuzFeeshe - you guys will loves this, I promise. It's Space Invaders, breakout, a huge epic level, alien testing, and secret cow levels all rolled in one. It's a new bar for creators to reach IMO. "In the Belly of the Beast: Demonic Dark" by MostEvilMilo - an awesome spin on the giant body concept... you're in a whale looking for Jonah, and go through some hilarious and disturbing stuff to find him. The whale moves and dives, spinning the whole level, and it is a huge arena. Human sacrfice and extravagant death contraptions are the theme of choice here. It's a little rough around the edges in spots, but think of it like Blood Omen on crack and you'll have fun. EDIT: In the Belly of the Beast is now showcased by MM as one of their picks of the week. Shows I've got good taste ***************** Kind of cool seeing 3 levels from members here all put in one chunk. Kind of echoes what OCK is saying above. I honestly did not expect to see my level in there because I have NEVER done a single bit of advertising anywhere except in this one site. lol that's me, on 1up.com

2009-02-25 17:39:00 Author: Unknown User

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I've agreed with everything you said there! You truely know the way the masses respond to actions that take place within LBP. I myself am trying to do a sort like expiriment. I've noticed how masses somehow always MISS the amazing 5-star deserving levels, with amazing visuals and loads of original gameplay content, but they ALWAYS heart the "Ramp-like" levels. It's insane! The crappier, buggier, tackier ones level is, the "Better" the mass decides it to be..

2009-02-25 17:59:00 Author: ThommyTheThird Posts: 440

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I think that rating is a better way to find good levels, there are too many H4Hers about falsely inflating the heart economy. You can find decent levels in the 'most hearted' search window, but I've also come across some real dreck. I'm not suggesting that the rating system is impervious to misuse, but I've found it to be a more reliable barometer of quality than hearts. That said, I do heart levels if I like them. Actually, to provide some detail on my opinion, I believe that hearts and rating are equally misused. Therefore it becomes dead data for me. It doesn't count. Where I see hearting superior is that with hearted list you can find good levels that were there even before the search system updates. You know, those good levels that simply dies or died before because we lacked a good search system. You won't EVER find them by any other search criteria than "text" and since you don't know their name, you will never find them. You have more chances to fall on them with hearted lists. .

2009-02-25 18:11:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Personally (and I've made these suggestions before.. I'm hoping MM will see one of them and go "Hey, that's true!") I think a few things need to change in LBP to TRULY fix the searching: 1. PLEASE don't let people rate a level unless they've finished it. Allowing people to rate and tag a level when they haven't played it all the way through is encouraging A.D.D. behavior! And you would HATE it if someone did the same with LittleBigPlanet its self. How would you like it if EGM played the first few levels of LBP, NEVER tried create mode, and then posted a poor review of your game for the world to see? If people can't finish the level - GREAT! Then there will be no star ratings. But this would allow people to produce levels with depth and difficulty without the 12-year-olds of the world killing it (nothing against 12-year-olds - just not generally my target market). I personally didn't spend hours and hours building Splat Invaders II for it to be killed because I was innovative and people need to practice a new skill. 2. Genres! Genres! Genres!!!!!! Video games have ALWAYS had ways of differentiating themselves from other video games. In LBP everything is dumped into a big pool. I want to be able to put my level in a genre with difficulty so I get the RIGHT people to play it. I don't want to become formulaic and stop innovating in order to satisfy 10,000 ramp and dinosaur world lovers!! 3. Switch the highest rated around a little!!!!! You have about 12 pages of highest rated but people only USE the 1st one. All you need to do is give all 12 pages a fighting chance by randomizing them up a bit. The REASON some levels are not on page one has nothing to do with quality - it's just visibility. I had a level sit on page 3 of the highest rated for several days and get virtually NO plays and drift back into oblivion. Whew... deep breath...

2009-02-26 16:19:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Personally (and I've made these suggestions before.. I'm hoping MM will see one of them and go "Hey, that's true!") I think a few things need to change in LBP to TRULY fix the searching: 1. PLEASE don't let people rate a level unless they've finished it. Allowing people to rate and tag a level when they haven't played it all the way through is encouraging A.D.D. behavior! And you would HATE it if someone did the same with LittleBigPlanet its self. How would you like it if EGM played the first few levels of LBP, NEVER tried create mode, and then posted a poor review of your game for the world to see? If people can't finish the level - GREAT! Then there will be no star ratings. But this would allow people to produce levels with depth and difficulty without the 12-year-olds of the world killing it (nothing against 12-year-olds - just not generally my target market). I personally didn't spend hours and hours building Splat Invaders II for it to be killed because I was innovative and people need to practice a new skill. 2. Genres! Genres! Genres!!!!!! Video games have ALWAYS had ways of differentiating themselves from other video games. In LBP everything is dumped into a big pool. I want to be able to put my level in a genre with difficulty so I get the RIGHT people to play it. I don't want to become formulaic and stop innovating in order to satisfy 10,000 ramp and dinosaur world lovers!! 3. Switch the highest rated around a little!!!!! You have about 12 pages of highest rated but people only USE the 1st one. All you need to do is give all 12 pages a fighting chance by randomizing them up a bit. The REASON some levels are not on page one has nothing to do with quality - it's just visibility. I had a level sit on page 3 of the highest rated for several days and get virtually NO plays and drift back into oblivion. Whew... deep breath... The trophies' design is also ****ed up and encourages bad behaviors in the community. Seriously, the more you study the game, the more you ask yourself what the hell of a process was the design phase of this thing (game) really. .

2009-02-26 19:13:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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You know, those good levels that simply dies or died before because we lacked a good search system. You won't EVER find them by any other search criteria than "text" and since you don't know their name, you will never find them. You have more chances to fall on them with hearted lists. That's a good point, I hadn't even considered that. I agree with you that both systems are similarly flawed, but the trophies for hearts (which was always a silly idea) make the hearts slightly less reliable. Having said that, I haven't used those functions in the search engine for a while now anyway - it's a real pain picking through the ones you've already played. I pretty much go by recommendation or the feedback threads entirely these days.

2009-02-27 13:09:00 Author: Boogaloo Posts: 254

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Isn't it too late for MM to fix the trophy system, by the way? If they could fix it, everything would be all fine and dandy. Maybe the create trophy could be based upon something else, but then again, I wouldn't know what else to put it as. I imagine MM was thinking the same thing when they didn't know what else to put it as. They could've at least made it so you didn't have to get so many hearts on yourself... maybe ten? It could've just taken the place of the Celebrity trophy.

2009-02-27 13:27:00 Author: Unknown User

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Isn't it too late for MM to fix the trophy system, by the way? If they could fix it, everything would be all fine and dandy. Maybe the create trophy could be based upon something else, but then again, I wouldn't know what else to put it as. I imagine MM was thinking the same thing when they didn't know what else to put it as. They could've at least made it so you didn't have to get so many hearts on yourself... maybe ten? It could've just taken the place of the Celebrity trophy. Thats the problem, I wouldn't know how to make a create trophy without hearts. Maybe *gasp* not have the trophy? OR have a create campaign mode, with levels having an objective, such as " create a car that shoots bombs and moves over rough terrain " and then you have to drive it to the end? That would be cool. Summing Up the topic: -- Authors should be able to set a genre for their level, such as "puzzler, adventure, platformer, arty, race, multiplayer, shooter" etc. -- Have a highest rated for each genre, and have the highest rated, say 12 pages, be randomized within those pages. -- Have a search filter to get rid of levels with "****" in the title/description or levels you've already played. -- Create trophy to be abolished -- Star Rating optional -- Hearts not displayed at the level -- MM should have more levels "Spotlighted" per se -- allowed, say, 2-3 weeks at highest rated page, and then be removed. -- Hall of Fame: all levels with 100,000+ plays or 10,000 hearts are put here, and are taken of highest rated Is that everything? We should Email this to MM

2009-02-28 22:52:00 Author: dkjestrup Posts: 672

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Thanks for your summary but this thread was more about my (and other's) personal observations and people's attitudes. I am still seeing a lot of clique behaviour on these forums and it seems like many people can't be bothered to play the levels of those who comment on their lvl's. If I - or anyone else - leaves comments either in-game or on these forums then at the very least you should play there lvl and leave a thought or two of your own, it's called common courtesy. Believe it or not I even check out the levels of those people who leave comments like "i gots dizzy. these is 1 stars lvls" and I judge their levels objectively (having said that the people who leave these comments always have what are in my opinion 1 star levels lol). It seems most people still have a lot of trouble being objective. Come on guys/girls, it's not that hard. Sure it requires a certain level of maturity but I am sure everyone can do it 1. PLEASE don't let people rate a level unless they've finished it. Allowing people to rate and tag a level when they haven't played it all the way through is encouraging A.D.D. behavior! And you would HATE it if someone did the same with LittleBigPlanet its self. How would you like it if EGM played the first few levels of LBP, NEVER tried create mode, and then posted a poor review of your game for the world to see? If people can't finish the level - GREAT! Then there will be no star ratings. But this would allow people to produce levels with depth and difficulty without the 12-year-olds of the world killing it (nothing against 12-year-olds - just not generally my target market). I personally didn't spend hours and hours building Splat Invaders II for it to be killed because I was innovative and people need to practice a new skill. I agree 1000%. It should also not allow the person to rate/tag the level more then once. This could prevent some foolish 12 year old from pelting a level with 1 star ratings, rubbish tags etc.

2009-03-03 01:01:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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It should also not allow the person to rate/tag the level more then once. This could prevent some foolish 12 year old from pelting a level with 1 star ratings, rubbish tags etc. I've tested this and it does only let you rate it once. It only counts your last star rating. Also on tags, it appears you can give the same tag only once but you can give as many different tags as you like. i.e. you can rate it brilliant, great and rubbish (if your confused ) but you can only tag it brilliant once.

2009-03-03 09:38:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I've tested this and it does only let you rate it once. It only counts your last star rating. Also on tags, it appears you can give the same tag only once but you can give as many different tags as you like. i.e. you can rate it brilliant, great and rubbish (if your confused ) but you can only tag it brilliant once. Well that's good news, thanks for th clarification

2009-03-05 06:35:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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Letting people rate without finishing is just begging for 1-star ratings because the level was too difficult :

2009-03-05 06:47:00 Author: Tyler Posts: 663

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I wanted to update the thread based on he recent changes MM made to Cool Levels and some very startling behaviour as a result of that: The Era of the Heart Scrooge and the 1 Star Rating I am still amazed that some people can only have a handful of hearted levels, what is wrong with you guys/girls? With the recent changes MM made is only going to get worse. The new system works in part by the number of hearts and rating of the given level. This means that everyone is in direct competition with eachother and it is in people's interest to NOT heart a level or give it a good rating becuase that might stand in the way of their level getting that much craved exposure. This is idiotic, mind-boggling, counter-intuitive and just plain dumb. Heart 2 Play rations will (and have) take a steep drop accross the board because of this and I really can't see any way around it. My new level Pulse has over 700 plays and only 38 hearts, by FAR my worst H2P ration (not that I place too much importance on it, I just use my own lvl as an example to illustrate my point). The first is step is to not let anyone rate a level if they have not finished it (I might even say don't allow them to tag it either). The next step? That's a good question. What does everyone else think? There is a whole lot to think about...

2009-03-07 02:18:00 Author: OCK Posts: 1536

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I wanted to update the thread based on he recent changes MM made to Cool Levels and some very startling behaviour as a result of that: The Era of the Heart Scrooge and the 1 Star Rating I am still amazed that some people can only have a handful of hearted levels, what is wrong with you guys/girls? With the recent changes MM made is only going to get worse. The new system works in part by the number of hearts and rating of the given level. This means that everyone is in direct competition with eachother and it is in people's interest to NOT heart a level or give it a good rating becuase that might stand in the way of their level getting that much craved exposure. This is idiotic, mind-boggling, counter-intuitive and just plain dumb. Heart 2 Play rations will (and have) take a steep drop accross the board because of this and I really can't see any way around it. My new level Pulse has over 700 plays and only 38 hearts, by FAR my worst H2P ration (not that I place too much importance on it, I just use my own lvl as an example to illustrate my point). The first is step is to not let anyone rate a level if they have not finished it (I might even say don't allow them to tag it either). The next step? That's a good question. What does everyone else think? There is a whole lot to think about... You know, one of the first posts I ever made in this forum was on Aer0blue's first "creator crisis" thread. Check it out sometime: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=5275&highlight=ccubbage&page=6 The truth is, I could see this problem happening FAR in advance - within the first few days of buying LittleBigPlanet. And it's getting worse. One of the first things I thought was "gee.... what happens if someone designs a challenging level, or tries to be innovative? Man, that's the kiss of death!" Your level "Pulse" IS actually a perfect example. Look at your feedback thread alone - you have such a striking style and difficulty in it, people have strong opinions. However, EVEN in your thread a lot of people just don't understand that personal preference on art style or gameplay difficulty is NOT a reason to give low ratings. If it's not your type of game - great - don't play it and don't rate it. But don't bury the level from the type of people who would enjoy it - LIKE ME! Personally I think the biggest 2 steps for MM would be to not allow rating of levels that aren't finished, and allow us creator-determined genre's and difficulty. And I KNOW creators may set it incorrectly - however it still allows them to determine their audience and separate their levels from groups that others may not enjoy. As a person who BOUGHT LittleBigPlanet, I should be able to go in, select a type of game, select a difficulty - and get a list of newest, highest rated, and so on. And once I finish playing the entire level I can make a decision as to what rating it deserves - an INFORMED decision.

2009-03-09 02:55:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Personally I think the biggest 2 steps for MM would be to not allow rating of levels that aren't finished, and allow us creator-determined genre's and difficulty. And I KNOW creators may set it incorrectly - however it still allows them to determine their audience and separate their levels from groups that others may not enjoy. On rating levels without finishing, I disagree. If a level is crap, and it makes it frustrating to finish, you should be able to rate it low. I prefer the suggestion of making rating not mandatory. Then we can make the default action for an unfinished level to skip rating. I think the best approach right now is to filter at the gate. If you expect a large percentage of LBP players to find your level too difficult and give it a low rating, make sure they don't even try playing it. Mention it in the description, give it a daunting title, perhaps ask friends when publishing to play and tag it Difficult. Maybe you get less players, but your level wasn't meant for the other players you're missing out on anyway. Finally, in response to the rest of this long discussion, I have to side with hearting being a privilege. I know it's hard to get hearted, and a lot of people deserve more hearts, but I see it more like a favourites list, levels I'd like to get back to some day, for playing, showing or for studying. As pointed out before, both total heart counts and heart-to-play ratios are unfit to serve as a proper indicator of anything, so just ignore them and award as you see fit.

2009-03-11 14:49:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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You're assuming just not allowing a level to be rated without finishing would be the only change necessary. When trying to collect accurate data, you need to sit down and figure out HOW to get the best data. Don't allow rating a level without finishing. Regardless of opinion, this is a principle that is true everywhere in life. When we see ratings we assume a person has actually experienced what they are rating. It's how me make informed decisions. For instance, if a movie critic did a review of the movie Titanic but left before the ship sank - the review would be pretty bad even if the movie didn't deserve it. But we assume that the critic DID watch the whole thing. Now, does there need to be something in place to punish unfinishable levels? Sure. Right now I have just finished a serious week-long experiment on ratings and I can tell you personally - the ratings are ALL OVER THE PLACE right now and truly don't reflect a levels quality - only preference. I've managed to get 2-star, 3-star, 4-star, and 5-star ratings on the exact same level based on when I publish and whether people put a few hearts on it before publishing. This isn't fair because people who prefer certain levels can bury other types of levels - and the poor ratings then reflect the hearts these levels get, which is directly related to this thread.

2009-03-11 17:57:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Of course the ratings reflect preference, that's what ratings are: opinions. To use your movie analogy: if a movie is too difficult for some people to understand - in other words, they "drop out" of the story halfway - they are not going to like the movie, or rate it high on imdb. This isn't movie critics we're talking about, it's the public. Also, you can look at it from the other side. Levels that are easy will probably get lower ratings from hardcore platformers. Strict platform levels will get lower ratings from puzzle lovers. But they're allowed to rate it. It's all about preference. I am not saying that optional ratings are the complete solution, but I do think taking away rating unfinished levels altogether will have unwanted side effects. Instead, we should try to help levels find the audience they were intended for.

2009-03-11 19:03:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Now your talking! And if you look at any post I've made on the forum for the last 3 months, you'll see that's exactly what I've been saying: get the right levels to the right audience. I want genre and difficulty settings so we as authors have the ability to control our own destiny. I'm just saying that between 2 evils I prefer not allowing rating without finishing, because I hate the fact that a young player who the level was not intended for can poorly rate my level. Of course, if they HAD a way to get the proper levels to the proper audience we wouldn't be having this conversation. Edit: And one other thing - something you wrote didn't QUITE sit right with me, and now I realize what it was: To use your movie analogy: if a movie is too difficult for some people to understand - in other words, they "drop out" of the story halfway - they are not going to like the movie, or rate it high on imdb. This isn't movie critics we're talking about, it's the public. This thinking is a fallacy because if an 8-year-old tries to sit through "Gone with the wind" they will walk out bored - and that's fine, no harm done. However, generally the 8-year-olds opinion doesn't show up the next morning in "The New Yorker" as a legitimate rating. However, in LBP it does - which is EXACTLY my point. The 8-year-old is incapable of giving a review.

2009-03-11 21:27:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Having fired up LBP for the first time in a while (KZ2 has been taking up my time) I noticed that a couple of my levels are short of a heart or two. Hasn`t upset me but it`s funny to see the pettiness in action.

2009-03-24 15:23:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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My theory on loss of hearts is more players cleaning up stuff. For instance, there was a couple authors I hearted when I first got LBP and eventually I realized they weren't really that good.... (no really... they weren't). I removed them. Sometimes a player will put a heart on a level and several months later they may decide they aren't going to play it again (if they are using a heart as a bookmark) so they remove it. But then again, when you come out with your pirates riding dinosaurs on mars level I'm SURE the hearts will be replenished.

2009-03-24 16:26:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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2 major problems with the game imo: 1- We should have had a real and free tag system 2- Rating should have been optional, more detailed and accessible like 2-3 menus deep. (aka YES most people wouldn't be rating levels and this would be benefital for all of us) Hearting as it is right now it's well done. .

2009-03-24 21:50:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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For once in my life i am going to remain uncharacteristically quiet... This is a great thread. Thoughtful and intelligent. It should be mandatory LBPC reading. It duly deserves this bump... thanks to Morgana for unknowingly directing it to me.

2009-06-01 19:32:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308

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optional ratings might help with the players who would normally skip through the process by simply clicking on whatever rating was there already. it won't stop the folk who purposely 1 star a level to prevent it getting to the cool levels. for that i'd it if you could only rate a level upon completion. well actually what I'd really like to see is a new mod system. basically, moderators would be able to ban folk who 1 star good levels. eg the moderator would go to splat invaders saga, bring up a mod menu, select everyone who gave it one star and put a 6 month ban on them. they would vote as normal, but the game would ignore them. do that with a few of the levels with high play counts and you'd soon get rid of the bad eggs trying to ruin it for others. never going to happen, but I can dream.

2009-06-06 12:24:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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