Archive: 11 posts

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Since LBP 2 Beta I've been attempting to create a level that revolves around rotating the stage around central pivot points. (Puzzle platforming!) Of course, this sort of level environment can be pretty limiting, as I have found. Pistons and most connectors break or work unlike how they should work. In my case, I'm trying to create simple moving platforms and sliding doors. Since the level moves, I cannot make use of dampened gravity tweakers or bolts of any kind. My best solution involves stopping anything that moves when the level is rotating. (The rotations are in 90degree intervals, and are only activated by switches.) Unfortunately, this causes me to lose the opportunity to create a level that takes full advantage of platforming in a rotating environment (timing your jumps while the level is rotating and aforementioned generic platform is moving). I have tried tags and followers, but these fail to keep my objects aligned. Sometimes the followers fail entirely, but I am positive that they are the key to solving this problem. I'd basically like to create an assortment of opening and closing doors, (sliding left/right, and moving upwards/downwards) in addition to moving platforms and other obstacles. As of right now, almost everything that moves is kept trapped inside guard-rails, but the objects still stop when the level is rotating. (They could break or break other objects, from what I can understand.) I'm looking forward to responses so I can find a good system for creating objects in my level. Thank you!

2012-07-11 21:15:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Keep the followers. Just multiply the number of them by 10. For example, if you have a follower, put it in a microchip by itself. Connect the input the follower had to the activation input of the microchip it is in. Then, copy and paste the follower until you are satisfied. Do this for all of your followers and you should be okay. I have heard somewhere that the more followers you have, the stronger the following pull would be.. I could probably conduct an experiment prooving that statement right or wrong.. I think I might.. I will get back to you on that. PS. This copying/pasting method works for any type of mover, and some types of rotators.

2012-07-12 03:23:00 Author: Wolffy123 Posts: 406

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I'd be amazed if the number of followers has any effect on the follower strength. Also, I'm not sure if you understood completely. The level rotates around an external pivot point. if the door were to open or close during the rotation, it would float towards the tag in a linear direction. It's too bad there isn't a path follower.

2012-07-12 03:47:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Ahhh.. I see.. I still need to conduct that experiment. Also, I'm surprised that pistons didn't work in this.. Usually they are pretty good when it comes to these types of things...

2012-07-12 03:54:00 Author: Wolffy123 Posts: 406

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I think you should keep the followers, but also have some look-at-rotators. There would be a tag in the centre of the level, and the look-at-rotators would face the tag. So the followers move to wherever they're meant to, AND they stay in the same angle relative to the level. ...Although I haven't actually tried this, I think it would work.

2012-07-12 05:58:00 Author: Kaboosh99 Posts: 359

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It's too bad there isn't a path follower. I have wished for this so many times.

2012-07-12 06:32:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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Can you post some pictures of what you've got, design-wise? I'm having trouble imagining it still. I've got some experience (and racked up my share of frustrated hours) with 90-degree rotation puzzle platforming, but opted to keep most of it static with no moving parts due precisely to the sort of challenges you describe. My first thought would be, for doors anyway, to forego the sliding slab effect for a rolling ball one, but I'm not properly imagining how your level works. If you're not too invested in a current design, I think circular platforms and general circular engineering will provide the most inspiration and solutions. Orientation is no longer a problem and movement becomes more reliable since a circle can "roll" and fit anything in its width. Players can hop on them, grab them, they can be rolled into holes to create doorblocks... more importantly, you can use a circle object in a thin layer literally built into a wall that rolls along a path, and attach other shapes to it in a thicker layer with glue or something else. Then when you add movers and followers, sticky to slippery tweakers, gyroscopes, whatever you please, things move in all sorts of creative ways. Even without logic, you can create natural Rube Goldberg-like movement. And in working with this for a while you may find you can do other shapes and use pistons and bolts after all. ...but again, that's with perhaps the wrong image of the level you're creating. And if you have specific puzzles in mind, they might preclude the design ideas above. Pictures will help!

2012-07-12 09:03:00 Author: Unknown User

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edit: ignore. wouldn't work

2012-07-12 11:02:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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Interesting ideas guys...the pivot point changes according to my rules though, so a look-at rotator would be unreliable. To help you guys try to understand what I'm trying to do, I will post an old video someone recorded, showcasing a BETA test (In LBP 2 BETA of course) Keep in mind that the quality of the rooms, puzzles, and rotation are not as good as they are now. (Now multiple pivot points, etc.)The art style has changed as well. The only thing that is exactly the same is the function of the switches and the moving block platforms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUke1po9PNc The doors in the video don't work properly once the level starts rotating. They start floating everywhere. (The first one closes, moving parallel to the floor, and the second is an in-out mover.) Unfortunately, they won't work. If anyone's interested, my LBP 1 level (my only one) features some of the ideas that inspired me to create this level in LBP 2: A youtuber recorded the relevant part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGXxnf_qc9Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s (The level in my signature) Hopefully all of the above helps (Arbiekko, etc. Wolffy123: Pistons and are often extremely fragile when they are rotated.

2012-07-12 14:29:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Wow, that's some gorgeous stuff! That first video actually seems to demonstrate really good, functioning paths with moving platforms and things. You're onto something with in-out doors rather than sliding up/down ones... build some encasements around them and they should work in any orientation, right? You could just have them "sit" in there with no other logic but the one that triggers moving in/out. And, relating to the circular design thing for doorways... http://i.imgur.com/In6TF.gif * The above graphic is a little misleading. For the in-out door, it wouldn't be 3 layers, but 1 or 2 layers moving forward or backward. In the left image it's moved to the front layer, in the right image it's moved to the back layer. For the rotating door, though, the color legend applies. A gyroscope or some other logic could keep it always "upright" which would make it a closed door in some level orientations, open in others. If you wanted it to rotate along with the level, you could turn off the gyroscope. Problem is it might then roll around uncontrollably in the encasement. Unless you give it zero breathing room to rotate, in which case the gyroscope also would be moot... hate those jagged edges of "circles" in polygon 3D graphics... ah well... problems, problems. Just two possible ideas.

2012-07-12 15:30:00 Author: Unknown User

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Wow! I'm really impressed with your diagram and ideas arbiekko! I was just playing with the in/out door with some followers, but sackboy could always push the door around, or the rotation would cause it to get stuck. I can't believe I forgot to put barriers! (and I remembered to do so with the other moving blocks. How silly of me!) Your wheel-based passageway is genius, I must say, and is a great way to keep the player where I want him to be, and keep him thinking. (This would work with multiplayer. I'll have to find something else for other people to do ha.) I just added you on PSN because I think that I'd like to show you the current state of the level idea(s) (many ideas floating or "orbiting" around the moon) Thanks again! EDIT: Ah nooo...the tight fit is making the door get stuck. There really ought to be more "defy physics" tools. EDIT 2: Fixed for now.

2012-07-12 17:27:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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