Archive: 14 posts

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I've been wondering this for the longest time, but is it possible in LBP2 to get cps to not spawn until everyone has died? What I mean is even if cp is in view (or close enough to spawn) can you make it where it won't spawn until no one is alive? Reason I'm asking is one of the biggest issues faced by creators of extreme platformers (hardest platformers in LBP) in multi is when cp is close enough to obstacle where if one person dies the camera shoots back to cp thus causing others on ob to often die because camera throws them off when someone spawns. I often wondered if there's a way to fix this, maybe related to the detect unspawned players on player sensors, or some other method. I've never bothered to try though. I always assumed it could be done via some setup involving detect unspawned players, but I could be completely off. Is there any way to stop spawns until everyone is dead? I would think there has to be a way that's not too complicated. Oh, and I'm not using sackbots.

2012-07-09 23:50:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393

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Wire up a player detector to the checkpoint set to detect one player, with a maximum radius (5,000). That should be all you need, except that no other checkpoints (including the scoreboard) can be active. Haven't actually tried this though... so it's possible that it will just end the game (cuz everyone is dead and all the checkpoints are turned off).

2012-07-10 06:58:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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I tried this and all it does is spawn like normal. I tried a ton of other different setting combinations on sensor and still no luck, though I haven't tried every setting combination. Logically the settings that should have worked that didn't should have worked. There's got to be a way, even if it doesn't involve player sensor. I'm almost thinking of posting a community challenge to challenge creators that like these sorts of tasks to solve the problem of cp spawning before everyone is dead, and there either is a way or impossibe.

2012-07-11 03:59:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393

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Lemme see what I can come up with. I made a respawner that I emit in the level I'm currently working on. Maybe that's the way to go.

2012-07-11 08:49:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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One question: A successful implementation of your "all players must be dead" rule might also prevent players from spawning when a new gate is reached. Is that a concern? It depends on the level type and your goals, of course, but just wondering. A few solutions: The Rising Gate Simple and kind of stylish. The gate becomes active, which triggers a mover or a piston or something that shoots it about 3 screens higher than any player can see. You'd need to build a little chute for it and the players to come down when it's time to respawn, although if done a certain way the gate can zip down fast enough that between the camera trying to shift to it and it everyone actually spawning, it would basically end up where it was before. Out come the players, and up it goes again. Experimentation is key. I can see this flinging people to great heights with lag, and other things. But this is how I would do it, for simplicity, a little bit of engineering fun, and a visual cue for players to understand the situation. Gate triggered... then it rises up and away, no more gate. It also has the bonus of respawning the last batch of dead players before it shoots up, giving everyone an even start. Emitted/Destroyed Spawn Gate The emitter creates a gate when it detects no players. The gate itself detects a player and destroys itself after a 0.3 second timer (long enough for all players to spawn, I think). Problem: Having no active gate once everyone dies. Once they die the new gate would spawn maybe, but would it know to spawn the players right there? Maybe if it's a start gate, rather than an infinite gate. If there are other gates scattered around the level, or a scoreboard, or whatever, I'm not sure what weird things might happen. Chances are, with just the one gate, the level would end like v0rtex suggests before the respawned gate could let everyone play. One solution to this is a "backward cascade" of other gates spawned earlier in the level once the current spawn gate has been triggered and destroyed, which reach out and detect the players so a gate is always active... but then everyone would would respawn earlier in the level outside of the camera view, after having triggered and destroyed the current spawn gate. If that makes sense. Again, experimentation is needed. I would avoid this one, though, as lag between multiple players and the mounting complexity of gate management eventually becomes more hassle than benefit.

2012-07-11 09:54:00 Author: Unknown User

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I've not tried it, but doesn't each player get their own camera when you change the level type to 'Versus'? I'm pretty sure the sole reason for Versus is to address this very issue, no?

2012-07-11 12:34:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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OK - So I did a little experimenting, and as I feared, when the last player is killed and there are no checkpoints active, it ends the game. It's frustratingly amusing though... as the game fades to the menu (Replay / Return To Pod) you can see my respawner checkpoint has been emitted in the background. And after you make your choice from the menu, there's another 1/2 second or so of game animation and you can see your sack-person getting spawned - just barely - then you're back in your pod. Oh well. I also tried having an off-screen, active checkpoint with a deathless teleporter back to the play area. The camera was still a problem with this, but with some more effort it could possibly be made to work. I may have another go at it tomorrow night.

2012-07-12 06:30:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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Thanks for the replies everyone! ^^ One question: A successful implementation of your "all players must be dead" rule might also prevent players from spawning when a new gate is reached. Is that a concern? It depends on the level type and your goals, of course, but just wondering. A few solutions: The Rising Gate Simple and kind of stylish. The gate becomes active, which triggers a mover or a piston or something that shoots it about 3 screens higher than any player can see. You'd need to build a little chute for it and the players to come down when it's time to respawn, although if done a certain way the gate can zip down fast enough that between the camera trying to shift to it and it everyone actually spawning, it would basically end up where it was before. Out come the players, and up it goes again. Experimentation is key. I can see this flinging people to great heights with lag, and other things. But this is how I would do it, for simplicity, a little bit of engineering fun, and a visual cue for players to understand the situation. Gate triggered... then it rises up and away, no more gate. It also has the bonus of respawning the last batch of dead players before it shoots up, giving everyone an even start. Emitted/Destroyed Spawn Gate The emitter creates a gate when it detects no players. The gate itself detects a player and destroys itself after a 0.3 second timer (long enough for all players to spawn, I think). Problem: Having no active gate once everyone dies. Once they die the new gate would spawn maybe, but would it know to spawn the players right there? Maybe if it's a start gate, rather than an infinite gate. If there are other gates scattered around the level, or a scoreboard, or whatever, I'm not sure what weird things might happen. Chances are, with just the one gate, the level would end like v0rtex suggests before the respawned gate could let everyone play. One solution to this is a "backward cascade" of other gates spawned earlier in the level once the current spawn gate has been triggered and destroyed, which reach out and detect the players so a gate is always active... but then everyone would would respawn earlier in the level outside of the camera view, after having triggered and destroyed the current spawn gate. If that makes sense. Again, experimentation is needed. I would avoid this one, though, as lag between multiple players and the mounting complexity of gate management eventually becomes more hassle than benefit. I mainly create platformers. Usually straight forward, cp, ob, cp, ob, cp, ob, cp, scoreboard. I thought about cp moving out of the way, as that's an easy fix, but it's clunky. I was hoping for something smoother where level plays like normal with cp still, but some kind of logic helping. There might be a way to implement your emitter idea. I'll have to experiment with that. I've not tried it, but doesn't each player get their own camera when you change the level type to 'Versus'? I'm pretty sure the sole reason for Versus is to address this very issue, no? Yes, but there are 2 problems with versus. One is that scoreboard is not a co-op scoreboard, and the other is setting up versus to where cps work same as in co-op. OK - So I did a little experimenting, and as I feared, when the last player is killed and there are no checkpoints active, it ends the game. It's frustratingly amusing though... as the game fades to the menu (Replay / Return To Pod) you can see my respawner checkpoint has been emitted in the background. And after you make your choice from the menu, there's another 1/2 second or so of game animation and you can see your sack-person getting spawned - just barely - then you're back in your pod. Oh well. I also tried having an off-screen, active checkpoint with a deathless teleporter back to the play area. The camera was still a problem with this, but with some more effort it could possibly be made to work. I may have another go at it tomorrow night. Guess I'll add teleporter idea to my list of things to experiment with. Sounds interesting. I haven't experimented much with this 'all players must be dead' idea as I figured I would ask first before wasting time hassling with it as someone may have done already, but since everyone is in same boat I might as well join in the hassle, lol. EDIT: I'll still be checking back to this thread for anyone still trying this, until myself or someone solves this issue if anyone does. So far some good ideas but they all have at least one con. But might be possible to tweak until right.

2012-07-12 20:12:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393

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How about this? It looks a bit clumsy, but it works: http://i.imgur.com/wPJLK.gif WHAT HAPPENS 1) When the last player touches the red zone, but before dying, a checkpoint is emitted. LOGIC: 1 player AND (NOT) 2 or more players AND impact sensor = go to emitter. Make sure the player detection areas are identical size, and very large. 2) The checkpoint spawns the other player(s), detects them and destroys itself. LOGIC: 2 or more players = go to timer = go to destroyer. The antigravity tweaker is just to keep the checkpoint in place after it emits. 3) Repeat. IMPORTANT! Add another 1 player sensor to the checkpoint with a large detection area! I forgot to include this in the graphic. It's vital that the area be large enough to detect the last player heading toward his/her death and activate. Otherwise players will respawn elsewhere or the level will end. COMMENTARY Depending on the length of time between the other player(s) respawning and the checkpoint destroying itself, the last player might still be in the process of dying and not have time to respawn, but this creates an interesting dynamic: the other player(s) get a chance to continue without that player, who has to wait until the last one of them dies, and so on. It creates a cooperative/competitive trade-off. If you definitely want all players to respawn from the checkpoint, just increase the timer length. I'll draw up a graphic of the backward cascade concept later, which builds on this one, if you like.

2012-07-13 04:19:00 Author: Unknown User

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something you could try is lowering some invisible thack in front of the checkpoint when all players have moved away from it, this should stop players from spawning, but i'm not sure if it would just wait till the thack is removed when the last player dies and let them spawn again, or move to the scoreboard, or you may simply get the level end menu

2012-07-13 14:50:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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How about this? It looks a bit clumsy, but it works: http://i.imgur.com/wPJLK.gif WHAT HAPPENS 1) When the last player touches the red zone, but before dying, a checkpoint is emitted. LOGIC: 1 player AND (NOT) 2 or more players AND impact sensor = go to emitter. Make sure the player detection areas are identical size, and very large. 2) The checkpoint spawns the other player(s), detects them and destroys itself. LOGIC: 2 or more players = go to timer = go to destroyer. The antigravity tweaker is just to keep the checkpoint in place after it emits. 3) Repeat. IMPORTANT! Add another 1 player sensor to the checkpoint with a large detection area! I forgot to include this in the graphic. It's vital that the area be large enough to detect the last player heading toward his/her death and activate. Otherwise players will respawn elsewhere or the level will end. COMMENTARY Depending on the length of time between the other player(s) respawning and the checkpoint destroying itself, the last player might still be in the process of dying and not have time to respawn, but this creates an interesting dynamic: the other player(s) get a chance to continue without that player, who has to wait until the last one of them dies, and so on. It creates a cooperative/competitive trade-off. If you definitely want all players to respawn from the checkpoint, just increase the timer length. I'll draw up a graphic of the backward cascade concept later, which builds on this one, if you like. This seems like a really great idea, and a very helpful diagram. I started implementing this, and then realized how am I going to gauge how many lives? The cps are 3 life cps or the double 6 life cps. Harder obstacles might have 2 double cps. Your idea seems great for infinite, but not limited. If a new one is spawned that would reset the lives. Well actually I guess I could place a visible life counter in every level with max emitted on emitter set to however many lives I want to give with tag logic on cp to bump timer up once. This is actually a very good idea. I could even create my own last life sound effect that activates once visible timer fills up. Though this would also require more logic that deactivates or destroys sound effect if they reach next cp. Still should be easy. I'll tell you results if I get any of this working.

2012-07-13 23:40:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393

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Ive wanted this for a long time now,especially for my zombie levels. Kinda Complex for me atm.

2012-07-14 23:42:00 Author: SackBoy98 Posts: 588

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You can make two checkpoints, one WAY out of view (infinite) and one where you want it (with however many lives you want). Have the one spawning checkpoint (the finite one) only activate when no players are sensed. The other (infinite) when players are sensed. I would put some gas on the infinite one in case a glitch happens but it SHOULD work. The only problem I see is whenever the player dies they might get stuck in the unused place (maybe put some player sensors next to the unused space that when activated, make sure the unused spawn doesn't get activated (not (for the unused area sensors) and and switch to other sensors for if the player is alive period) and this solution should work (messily)).

2012-07-20 08:16:00 Author: koltonaugust Posts: 1382

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This seems like a really great idea, and a very helpful diagram. I started implementing this, and then realized how am I going to gauge how many lives? The cps are 3 life cps or the double 6 life cps. Harder obstacles might have 2 double cps. Your idea seems great for infinite, but not limited. If a new one is spawned that would reset the lives. Well actually I guess I could place a visible life counter in every level with max emitted on emitter set to however many lives I want to give with tag logic on cp to bump timer up once. This is actually a very good idea. I could even create my own last life sound effect that activates once visible timer fills up. Though this would also require more logic that deactivates or destroys sound effect if they reach next cp. Still should be easy. I'll tell you results if I get any of this working. I figured it out I should have a test level of it up with a toned down and noted version as a prize at the end im not great at explaining things but if you are knowledgeable about logic this should be simple to understand looking at it the level will be called limited spawn spawn system http://lbp.me/v/ff-hxw

2012-09-10 13:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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