Archive: 17 posts

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I'm doing this project, where I try to make as many advanced logic gadgets as I can using only the stuff I can find in the simple logic category of the gadgets page. Like, making a toggle without actually using a toggle or any other advanced logic gadget, only logic gates, batteries, and microchips. So far, I have made a two-input selector and 3 stage counter, and have my sights set on making the toggle and the timer (I understand that I can't make the randomiser, controllinator, or game sequencer, and that I may not be able to make the splitter and combiner (I may be able to, or it may be impossible, I just don't know). Although I am only doing this for fun, I had actually learned a lot; most notably that when you take two XNOR gates, hook the top one's output into the bottom one's input and vice versa, the you can create a sort of cycling selector by sending pulses to the second input of the top or bottom XNOR gate! Well, only pulses. If the signal is longer than 0.033 seconds, then it flickers like a NOT gate. Since I don't want to use a counter, is there a way to make pulses using only logic gates, batteries, or microchips?

2012-04-12 00:37:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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I bet you could using AND gates, OR gates and a NOT gate. But I've not played this game for a while. Good challenge though!

2012-04-12 02:11:00 Author: Unknown User

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Place 2 2-port AND gates, one above the other (so u know which I'm referring to). Wire your input to the top input of both AND gates. Wire both AND gates to an OR gate, then wire the OR gate to a NOT gate and the bottom input of the bottom AND gate. Wire the NOT gate to the bottom input of the top AND gate. Wire the top AND gate to whatever you need the pulse for. This may not be the lowest thermo way to do it but it should do the trick. (unable to test but theory is solid)

2012-04-12 02:35:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Yay, I weren't dumb! Tested, it works (well, tested on a cheap logic gate simulator, better then nothing).

2012-04-12 03:57:00 Author: Unknown User

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Not answering your exact question, but since CompherMC spread the gospel about Selectors to me I now sometimes use these to create per-frame controlled pulses: wire the output of one channel into the input of another and vice versa. Wire one output to the followup actions. Add channels and thread the signal; per channel you create one more frame of latency in the pulse.

2012-04-12 08:35:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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Not answering your exact question, but since CompherMC spread the gospel about Selectors to me I now sometimes use these to create per-frame controlled pulses: wire the output of one channel into the input of another and vice versa. Wire one output to the followup actions. Add channels and thread the signal; per channel you create one more frame of latency in the pulse. You can do a one shot pulse with selectors too. Just wire one output of a 2 port selector to the other input, then use the cycle input for when u want the pulse However this may make the pulse come one frame late. I havnt used it like that b4 so I'm not sure EDIT: nah selector one shot pulses on same frame. also i reduced the the method i mentioned earlier to 3 gates instead of four http://ib.lbp.me/img/ft/73b4d79bf0d7f437f056defc2483345911a14a01.jpg if you use a one shot pulse like the one above it makes so of the other advanced logic tools a lot easier too recreate too (spoiler alert, in case you want to discover on your own) highlight the following if you want to read for a toggle simply wire the above one shot pulser to an XOR then wire it's output to it's other input. if you ignore sign and analog a combiner works exactly the same as an XOR as it is, though i'm not sure replicating the sign and analog functions can b done. you can link XORs in a way that will cause the ON signal to move through them in series, one XOR per frame therefore it can be used to replicate the digital function of a timer (as the following method is one frame per gate you may find you could use it in tandem with a custom counter for high times) or a chain looped selector. wire the one shot pulse into the first XOR, then you wire every following XOR to both the next XOR and the previous XOR you could also wire the last XOR back to the first via an OR or another XOR with the initial pulser if you want it to keep going around once it has started.

2012-04-12 09:29:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Thanks! By the way, I am actually using this to make a selector (as well as other advanced logic) with only simple logic, so using a pulse selector to make a selector would defeat the purpose, but thanks for trying to help. By the way, thank you so much evret! The pulser would be very useful. I actually did read some of the following highlighted, but then I realized that it would be like cheating. If I do manage to make all the rest of the possible logic gadgets, I'll start making more versions of them, like 3 input selectors that can handle analog signals.

2012-04-12 21:35:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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I'm doing this project, where I try to make as many advanced logic gadgets as I can using only the stuff I can find in the simple logic category of the gadgets page. I bet you could using AND gates, OR gates and a NOT gate. Electronics theory suggests you should be able to build any digital circuit using only two-input NAND gates or two-input NOR gates. Two-input NAND gate equivalencies are... http://i2.lbp.me/img/ft/4b2c4531d0506be3b874dc5c7073dd267514e3fe.png You should be able to simulate the positive digital behavior of: toggle, counter, timer, randomizer, and selector, but you might have problems with negative digital and analog behavior. For the randomizer, you won't be able to precisely simulate the outputs, but you should be able to create your own pseudorandom pattern.

2012-04-12 22:41:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Haha, I already knew about that - I like wikipedia! See, I made an OR gate out of AND gates out of NOR gates on this picture: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5364/ornot.png Or should I say "for obviously no reason"?

2012-04-12 23:17:00 Author: Unknown User

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but why... WHY!!! how is this all applied to level design? why would you want to jump through hoops like this? why the obsession with latency? and why do i feel to inferior?

2012-04-13 00:12:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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but why... WHY!!! how is this all applied to level design? why would you want to jump through hoops like this? why the obsession with latency? and why do i feel to inferior? Lmao these logic challenges have nothing to do with making a level, but for some of us challenges like these are more enjoyable than level building. Also in regards to latency, it can often cause issues with complicated logic and the main aim is to make a circuit to perform a particular task with lowest cost to thermo and fastest way possible. It often has no effect on gameplay.

2012-04-13 02:36:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Im. Going to try this! Yay

2012-04-13 02:38:00 Author: Unknown User

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We just laughed so much building this OR gate thing. It happens when you leave two overtired brains in the same level.

2012-04-14 01:14:00 Author: Unknown User

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Okay, I might as well ask another question... Is there any logic circuit using batteries, microchips, or logic gates that does something digitally when the output is negative or positive. Like, a circuit that is off when the input is negative or on when it is positive. I don't care if it pulses 29 times if it's positive or 2135 times when it's negative, as long as it does something different digitally when it's negative than when it's positive. Or is this impossible?

2012-04-14 13:55:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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not with the simple logic gates, however i'm not sure why you'd want to. what would this negative signal be coming from?

2012-04-14 18:14:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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See, I made an OR gate out of AND gates out of NOR gates on this picture... Well, for ridiculous logic, I still like my LBP1 set-reset switch made from rocket cheetahs. http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/dd6a165c3839fb5688456046301765b6bbcb8b49.png ...i'm not sure why you'd want to. I'm guessing he's trying to simulate the digital behavior of a direction splitter using only the simple logic components. Is there any logic circuit using batteries, microchips, or logic gates that does something digitally when the output is negative or positive. For all the simple components, although the digital sign of the output may depend on the digital signs of the input(s), the magnitude of the outputs always ignores the sign of the inputs, so I don't think any of the basic logic components can distinguish digital +1 from digital -1 in any useful way. I'd guess it's by design, so that traditional digital circuits always behave as you'd expect them to in the real world.

2012-04-14 19:55:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Oh. I was hoping to make a very simple direction splitter.

2012-04-14 20:25:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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