Archive: 119 posts

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Well, I've read on here that in a future patch, the yay/boo feature will be removed?!?! What no! That is dumb, as then we'll have no way to rate levels! Mm what are you thinking?!!!?!! What if I what to praise a good level but am too lazy to leave a reveiw? What if i want to express my dissapointment of a level non verbally? Hm?

2012-04-10 16:54:00 Author: Screeno Posts: 153

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They're just getting rid of the boo option as far as I know. Not sure if you can still leave :| faces or not.

2012-04-10 17:14:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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Yeah, it is only the boo option. And, apparently, the choice to disable comments. However, I still think removing boos will be a bad move. Like I said in an earlier post: I do not think removing this many functions would be a good idea. People would shut out any criticism and leave only the possibility of not rating it or liking it. I think that will be abused. You know those videos on YouTube that look good, but are some kind of prank when you click on them? They disable the comments and ratings, leaving no evidence of it's quality. I think the same will happen on LBP. People will sugarcoat levels, and when you play them, they're copied or a H4H. Then you can't say anything. It'll turn LBP into a huge game of Minesweep. You never know what you'll get, and that goes for both positive and negative. I really hope they don't include this in another update. I wouldn't really mind disabling comments, because some people may be getting harassed in the comments section, but I would just leave it at that.

2012-04-10 17:19:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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I think they should keep it as is. There might be some boo's that are unjust every once in a while but for the most part good levels get good boo to like ratios and make it easier to find good levels.

2012-04-11 02:13:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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They are getting rid of Booing because it has been mostly used by people to spam and troll creators/levels/reviews. i won't miss it. honestly there is no real need to show that you dislike a level in this game. *mew

2012-04-11 02:22:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Uhhh... I'm sorry, but no need? There's always going to be a need for criticism, be it constructive or not. That's just my two cents though.

2012-04-11 02:28:00 Author: Super_Clone Posts: 849

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Uhhh... I'm sorry, but no need? There's always going to be a need for criticism, be it constructive or not. That's just my two cents though. My sentiments exactly. If you can't handle criticism, then why are you publishing levels?

2012-04-11 02:37:00 Author: Captain_Dinosaur Posts: 214

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My sentiments exactly. If you can't handle criticism, then why are you publishing levels? so people can just enjoy your work if they want, or if they don't, they can just leave? i'm pretty sure people don't only post levels just for criticism unless it's a beta for testing reasons. and it's not like you still won't be able to give criticism, you will still be able to review and comment after all. Edit: almost forgot in the new update you can turn off reviews. but in the end it should be left up to the creator. not everyone can take hard criticism. and if they can't indeed take hard criticism. that don't mean they should not be able post their work if they want to.

2012-04-11 02:41:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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I think removing boo's is a reasonable idea but i'm not sure the ability to disable the comments is needed. All we need is to be able to prevent certain people from commenting or the ability to properly remove comments that we don't want cluttering our levels.

2012-04-11 03:04:00 Author: Lordwarblade Posts: 761

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so people can just enjoy your work if they want, or if they don't, they can just leave? i'm pretty sure people don't only post levels just for criticism unless it's a beta for testing reasons. and it's not like you still won't be able to give criticism, you will still be able to review and comment after all. Edit: almost forgot in the new update you can turn off reviews. but in the end it should be left up to the creator. not everyone can take hard criticism. and if they can't indeed take hard criticism. that don't mean they should not be able post their work if they want to. A creator should embrace criticism. You never get to high or too low. Take peoples opinion with a grain of salt and continue ever improving your level. A lot of times people have good reason to lowly rate your level and will actually help you with things if you message them, where as if the option is taken away they would not care enough to leave a reply and would just leave. Therefore the opportunity for your level to improve is greater when you see that its not perfect when its screened by strangers and not your testers who wont rip your levels like randoms will.

2012-04-11 03:07:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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A creator should embrace criticism. You never get to high or too low. Take peoples opinion with a grain of salt and continue ever improving your level. A lot of times people have good reason to lowly rate your level and will actually help you with things if you message them, where as if the option is taken away they would not care enough to leave a reply and would just leave. Therefore the opportunity for your level to improve is greater when you see that its not perfect when its screened by strangers and not your testers who wont rip your levels like randoms will. and everyone is the same? there are lots of people who are to overly soft hearted to take much. and to say to them they should just leave because they don't have a coal heart like some of us. is not the way to go. besides do you think MM/Sony is doing this for the LOLz? clearly they have their reasons. *mew

2012-04-11 03:11:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Maybe when a level doesn't have many plays, a couple badly-timed boo's can deteriorate its chances of seeing more attention. That being said, boo's are kind of important when judging level quality. After playing hundreds of LBP levels, you can learn to select the type of level that you want to play. When I'm looking for really good levels (and I'm pretty picky), I look for ones that not only have lots of good ratings, but ones that have a favorable yay to boo ratio. If I pass by a level on the cool pages, I look at the level icon, the title, and then the number of yay's and boo's. If its a copied level, players will generally indicate so by giving the level a boo and the level will have a pretty bad rating. If the level is a genuine platformer, the ratio will generally be much higher. Depending on the title, the quality of the level icon, and the yay to boo ratio, I can accurately tell if the level is a true beauty and a "must-play," or if its one of those "good work, you'll be a fantastic creator with time" kind of levels. If you're level skyrockets in popularity to over one thousand plays, you can probably take the odd boo or two in stride. I mean, there's always the outliers in a random group of people, and somebody is bound to dislike your level for some reason. They might have just accidentally hit the dislike button. Maybe they're a kid, and don't understand what a good level is really like. The quest for universal popularity is not something that Media Molecule should condone. Searching for such a thing will only be a fruitless venture. There's always going to be the hater, for whatever enigmatic reason, but we just have to dismiss it as a quirk. Look for the general trends. Don't take things too personally. After all it's just a game. A game for everybody. If you're not willing to interact with everybody, then it would be impossible, in any circumstance short of players surrendering their ability to approve/disapprove of a level through yay's and boo's, reviews, comments, profile comments, comment ratings, in-game pictures?anything short of that would still leave room for somebody to criticize and therefore offend. Sure, there may be some kind of slippery-slope fallacy lodged in the cogs and pistons of my argument, but that's besides the point. What's next? Are people going to start being offended when somebody plays their level and doesn't put a yay to its record? Yays and boos. Star ratings. All were intended to help players sift the gems from the rough, but all of a sudden the rough grew jealous of the gems. The same thing happened with social media, like Youtube. Remember when everything came in a set of up to five stars? Sure, ratings weren't always accurate, but you could either use your rating to confirm what others had already told, or to correct what others had misconstrued. Then, the paradigm shift. Ratings were simplified, but thankfully, reviews solved the problem of unheard voices, unheard feedback. But when you can't even voice a complaint against a level (one that doesn't justify a "Good Griefing," but that you feel is relevant), there is a problem. Ratings signify something. They actually have value, and can indicate exactly how good a level is, both for the benefit of players and creators wishing to improve their craft. And nobody here is "cold-hearted." You've got to be willing to take criticism somehow?ignore it, fight against it, relish in it?if you're going to put your creations out for everybody to examine. If not, then play your levels with your friends, or only let some people play/critique your creations. And if that doesn't suit your palate, then at least petition Media Molecule to have the option to turn off reviews/boos until a certain number of plays have been reached, so as to dilute the effects of boos on the chances of a still young and viable level.

2012-04-11 05:03:00 Author: spiffyspleen Posts: 23

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I think that they should implement a system where that if you boo, you must leave a reason for booing.

2012-04-11 10:26:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I think that they should implement a system where that if you boo, you must leave a reason for booing. This... but only if coupled with a minimum character count which can't be all the same letter or a repeated pattern of letters... examples being 'GGGGGGGGGGGGG' or 'LOLOLOLOL.' Additionally, I'd make people who boo'd have to fill in check boxes to give basic feedback and then text boxes to give a reason why they ticked it. Such as 'did you encounter a bug y/n?' and then if you pressed yes it would open a box forcing you to describe it.Which would hopefully encourage non spam feedback. However, removing boo's altogether is not the answer.

2012-04-11 10:41:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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This... but only if coupled with a minimum character count which can't be all the same letter or a repeated pattern of letters... examples being 'GGGGGGGGGGGGG' or 'LOLOLOLOL.' Additionally, I'd make people who boo'd have to fill in check boxes to give basic feedback and then text boxes to give a reason why they ticked it. Such as 'did you encounter a bug y/n?' and then if you pressed yes it would open a box forcing you to describe it.Which would hopefully encourage non spam feedback. However, removing boo's altogether is not the answer. That's what I was thinking, having options like: -Poor design -Too difficult/impossible -Buggy -OMG DIS LVL SUKS -Offensive Something along those lines.

2012-04-11 10:57:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I can actually understand removing the boo feature, I suppose in reality it might encourage people who didn't enjoy a level to leave a review saying why, rather than scarper off leaving an unhappy face. In the long run it could spur more feedback from players and in turn help creators fine tune their levels : ) but who knows? does anyone actually have a source for this information btw? xD

2012-04-11 12:30:00 Author: Hallm3 Posts: 252

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The Yay/Boo system is fine the way it is imo. Yay and boo are like yin & yang. It wouldnt be right to have one without the other. And besides, Removing the Boo rating isn't going to stop people from writing bad reviews like SUX FAIL G A Y POOP TROLOLOLOLOL So removing 'Boos' is not really a good idea when you think about it.

2012-04-11 13:56:00 Author: D-E-S_87 Posts: 148

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LBP showing his over emotion to level that people make developer to remove boos because they dont like to be criticized, instead of simply dealing with fact of it's existance. Also have fun with more trash on cool pages

2012-04-11 14:59:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I really don't think the "boo" system is necessary. I read the above posts, and there's a bit of a fallacy here. Getting rid of "Boos" doesn't mean you can't criticize a level... it only means you can't "boo" it. In fact, I would think removing the "boo" system will force people to actually COMMENT on why they don't like it, rather than simply throwing a boo on it. We hear all the time creators say "I wish when someone puts a sad face, they would also tell me WHY they disliked it"... well, this should force the player to do just that if they want to be heard. And the quality of their feedback will allow the creator to decide if the feedback is worth listening to. And where ratings are concerned - If you LIKE the level, leave a happy face. The more happy faces per plays = higher rating. Why is a boo necessary for accurate ratings? (some of this is really a summary of ideas in the above posts that I agree with).

2012-04-11 15:58:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I really don't think the "boo" system is necessary. I read the above posts, and there's a bit of a fallacy here. Getting rid of "Boos" doesn't mean you can't criticize a level... it only means you can't "boo" it. In fact, I would think removing the "boo" system will force people to actually COMMENT on why they don't like it, rather than simply throwing a boo on it. We hear all the time creators say "I wish when someone puts a sad face, they would also tell me WHY they disliked it"... well, this should force the player to do just that if they want to be heard. And the quality of their feedback will allow the creator to decide if the feedback is worth listening to. And where ratings are concerned - If you LIKE the level, leave a happy face. The more happy faces per plays = higher rating. Why is a boo necessary for accurate ratings? (some of this is really a summary of ideas in the above posts that I agree with). But it wont change anything with comments, bah people will disable them in fear of critisising dont we see already people deleting reviews? also it removing boos won't magicly buy people keyboards so they can comment without pain using pad for it, most people don't comment because they lazy and don't want to, not because there a Boo option. Even so as said above people, it wont magically make people do detailed reviews, they will just leave "boo" "***" or any other crap as they always did. Btw, rating system is valid form of feedback, same as people hate boos, people hate bad comments and reviews. If you got more a lot likes then boos means your level is good if there more boos means something is wrong you, go see reviews and see whats wrong, lbp never lacked that. Even android market and AppStore got more rating then actual text feedback

2012-04-11 16:10:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Even so as said above people, it wont magically make people do detailed reviews, they will just leave "boo" "***" or any other crap as they always did. This is a plus for me.... I can read a comment and tell whether it's worthy feedback. If is says "Poop", for instance, I can say "it's some obnoxious kid". Personally, I don't care if they leave boos in or take them out... to me, the ratings mean very little. They seem to be more of a gauge of how accessible a level is rather than a gauge of quality.... especially since most of the players are really young. One of my all time favorites is still "Metal Revolution" which is absolutely brilliant - but it has one of the WORST ratings I've ever seen. But, many players and creators are very young - and if receiving boos on their levels hurts their feelings, I'd say get rid of them. I really hate to see my 10 year old publish something that he thinks is quality, and a bunch of people come in and give low ratings. To me, this is the core of the problem.

2012-04-11 16:26:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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This is a plus for me.... I can read a comment and tell whether it's worthy feedback. If is says "Poop", for instance, I can say "it's some obnoxious kid". Personally, I don't care if they leave boos in or take them out... to me, the ratings mean very little. They seem to be more of a gauge of how accessible a level is rather than a gauge of quality.... especially since most of the players are really young. One of my all time favorites is still "Metal Revolution" which is absolutely brilliant - but it has one of the WORST ratings I've ever seen. But, many players and creators are very young - and if receiving boos on their levels hurts their feelings, I'd say get rid of them. I really hate to see my 10 year old publish something that he thinks is quality, and a bunch of people come in and give low ratings. To me, this is the core of the problem. No i wonder why people talk about feedback what you want, if it's now so meaningless and hurt feelings. There gonna be bad review if not ratings, people gonna disable them (or remove them as they always did). For me it's escaping and hiding from the problem then solving it If some kids have inspiration to be an artist, it's better for them learn for accepting bad reviews then escaping from them, since that what you gonna see by being artist

2012-04-11 19:08:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I think that they should implement a system where that if you boo, you must leave a reason for booing. Like right now with reviews: you can only leave a review after you first play the level.

2012-04-11 19:27:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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Only good thing i can see from this is fact that as they change rating system they will need to redesign cool pages algorithm, it might work better who knows. other then that i don't see anything good come from it. I also see other issue, what will happen with boo and yey trophy? Instead of encouraging to rating it will encourage to like everything :>

2012-04-11 20:11:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Couldn't agree more shadow... also good point about the trophy, surely this will only produce misleading level statistics which in turn will make them even more useless as every level will amazing despite its actual quality.

2012-04-11 20:14:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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I'm still sticking with my previous opinion, but disregarding that for a moment. Why doesn't Mm just allow the rating change to be an option similar to the reviewing? I would expect them to be all for a compromise, but it seems as if we as the creators won't have the option to enable or disable boos..

2012-04-11 21:28:00 Author: Super_Clone Posts: 849

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Hold on, won't this cause problems with some pins/Trophies? Will they seriously have to redo them all. O.o

2012-04-11 22:00:00 Author: TradeMarkSG Posts: 65

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For me it's escaping and hiding from the problem then solving it If some kids have inspiration to be an artist, it's better for them learn for accepting bad reviews then escaping from them, since that what you gonna see by being artist I agree. This is more like avoiding the dilemma rather than tackling it head on. In fact, it may make the problem worse. The pages would be filled to the brim with, like Dav1d0 said, levels with misleading statistics. The opinions of the players are indeed a necessity, whether it be good or bad. Most irrelevant feedback (such as "BAD" or "STUPPID") doesn't even make much of an effect on any level. In addition, most players are already yaying and hearting copied levels and such. Those kinds of levels usually have more likes than dislikes for some miraculous reason. Removing boo's completely would not cater to the situation. Also, like Shadow mentioned, a person should take in negative feedback instead of crying over it if they want to progress. No, not the negative "feedback" that consists of multiple potty words and bad spelling, those are pretty much worthless. I'm talking about actual feedback. If someone is "soft" and can't take negative feedback, TOO BAD. The world is a cruel place at times, and you have to learn to live with and in it. Embrace it. Not everyone in the world is going to consider your sensitivity and like everything you do because you can't take negativity. That's not how you improve. You have to work hard to get to your goal, don't let some puny words get in your way. It should help you. You know how to deal with it, heck, it may even be advice. Use it to your advantage. There are people that get insulted and hurt mentally and physically every minute of every day, but they don't let it get their goat. THIS is a video game. It only matters in the least if it's constructive. Deal with it. It's supposed to be fun. Again, I am truly against removing the option to boo. I can't help but feel like it'll monotone the voice of the community. We have a right to play and rate good levels, why should we be forced to like every level? What if they're horrible? Sure, you can always leave the poker face, but does that really make a statement? The only way to make the quality of the level public would be either to review it or comment, and those can both already be removed, possibly disabled in the update. I never liked boo's. I never liked when someone didn't like my level, but what I don't like most of all is when the community is abused in such a manner. Copying and H4H has already been done, I doubt being forced to smile through it all would be all that great.

2012-04-11 22:07:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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I'm still sticking with my previous opinion, but disregarding that for a moment. Why doesn't Mm just allow the rating change to be an option similar to the reviewing? I would expect them to be all for a compromise, but it seems as if we as the creators won't have the option to enable or disable boos.. That would cause inconstants in the system, all levels should have same rules applied, only thing would work if you thinking that way is option to disable rating, in fact YouTube have such option, ofcorse side-effect is that you your level would not be applied in automatic promotion systems. Besides rating is optional already, each player decides if he want to rate

2012-04-11 22:44:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I dunno...I'm on both sides of the fence...(Gemini FTW!) but I have to agree more with MM's decision... For example, on my Checkers level, a lot of people boo the level (and I've played with someone who does this) just because they lose to their friend or the AI. And just look at comphermc's level. http://lbp.me/v/4e6x4t/reviews Has a ton boos just because of the difficulty, but as may of the top reviews say, it's a great level (hence why it got picked...if that means anything anyway XD) So a lot of boos are really undeserved. And a lot time people abuse them. I personally don't judge a level by the boos, but by the reviews. So maybe take the boos off sure, but I think the most damaging thing would be to disable reviews and comments.

2012-04-11 23:09:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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What I don't think some of you realize is that most people (okay, maybe just me) don't read the comments or reviews before they play the level. Usually, if I'm looking through levels to play, I look at the title and badge, and if those are interesting, I glance at the yays and boos, and if they are good, I play the level. I don't peruse the reviews (wow, am I the king of unexpected rhymes or what?) or comments. While maybe you guys don't do that, I think most of the LBP community does. I remember when Latin_Player_10 (on one of his other stupid accounts, right after he had made that level asserting that he was actually a loving and kind person) gave his little "gift" to the community, which was in fact the scary exorcist face. If I hadn't seen the boos, I would have probably just hopped right in. However, I saw the boos, got suspicious, read the comments and reviews and decided not to. I know that it's a stupid example (I was already suspicious even before I saw the boos, it was Latin_Player_10), but there is really some vile trash out there on LBP, such as trolling; sometimes even masquerading as good levels. With many not reading the comments or review, the boos will be the only way to detect this. On the other hand... This had already been mentioned before, but many abuse the boos (my god, I am the king of unexpected rhymes). I remember Running Bot, one of my favorite levels, and yet it had almost as many boos as yays, and after looking through the comments, many people were mad just because it was different. If there were no boos, I think it would have gotten more plays and yays (I'm not even going to say anything now). Better yet, maybe the lack of a boo system would persuade more people to look through the comments and reviews to find if the level is good or bad quality, which would be excellent. So...I'm not sure.

2012-04-12 00:02:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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Better yet, maybe the lack of a boo system would persuade more people to look through the comments and reviews to find if the level is good or bad quality, which would be excellent. I'd have to respectfully disagree. Though some people have eons of time to spend sifting through levels, many people playing LBP don't have time to sift through the reviews and the comments. Plus, when you click on a level to play it, the top review scrolls through as the level rolls, so you can get a slight impression as to what the level's going to be like. However, players can't be expected to click on every level and look at the top review or two, and then play a level. Some people don't have the time, or the tenacity, and would be bored far too easily if they had to put in that much effort just to find a decent level to play. LBP's like a museum. Everybody enjoys looking at the art, but only a few actually hang around and stare at one painting for more than thirty seconds. If, suddenly, the museum directors decide that all art must be veiled until the visitors read a detailed description of the painting, nobody would come, and the museum would simply be a gallery of unrecognized greatness.

2012-04-12 02:55:00 Author: spiffyspleen Posts: 23

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I get the feeling there is no right or wrong answer here. Just opinions on what problems need to be solved. Sometimes fixing one problem simply creates another one. If you want young children to enjoy creating and publishing in..... a children's game..... not having boo's and allowing comments on levels to be turned off makes sense. It's similar to not allowing bullying in school. Young children have not built up wisdom or tact yet, so they need rules. If you're a mature creator who is looking for accurate feedback... having boos makes sense. I personally like them - it helps me understand the percentage of people who had a problem with my creation. If I'm trying to create something accessible, and people are not having fun because I balanced it too hard - I'd like to know. But it's ALSO a pretty compelling argument that changing the rating system at this point would create new issues. Would the current ratings need to be re-balanced, or are the boos going to still be there but be invisible, so that the current levels retain the same rating? And if that's true, will the current highest rated levels not be able to retain that status because newer levels can't be booed? Hmmmm.....

2012-04-12 18:21:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I noticed there are already no negative tags that I can think of off hand either. There were some in lbp1 right? I know there are actual functions for this and if they do get rid of it then whatever, life will go on. But still, this seems like when students aren't allowed to boo at a sporting event because some parents complained about hurt feelings. My point is that there may be a reason, but it's not always a good one and those who your trying to stop will easily find other ways to pull stuff.

2012-04-13 02:42:00 Author: xxMATEOSxx Posts: 1787

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Actually yes, not long after I started in LBP I noticed tags like "rubbish" vanished o.O There isnt going to be a perfect solution to this problem. But it is just that, a problem! Its something that does get abused and while Id love for a system to be put in place as already outlined here (ie, must give 100+ charater comment/rev if boo'ing), that requires manpower to dev/implement and obviously MM feels this quick "fix" solution is good-enough. Level linked earlier is a pin-up example of people boo'ing for lousy reasons (ie - above average difficulty = bad?), if [Very Hard] doesnt get the message across just kindly GTFO. (*always read the label kids) Anyone ever boo your level and also heart it? Or boo your level and heart you as a creator? Both happened to me and I dont have much traffic, so if thats the error rate, how many boo's (or hearts) are mistakes rather than scarper off leaving an unhappy face. (Havent heard that word "scarper" is SO long!)

2012-04-13 10:02:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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This... but only if coupled with a minimum character count which can't be all the same letter or a repeated pattern of letters... examples being 'GGGGGGGGGGGGG' or 'LOLOLOLOL.' Additionally, I'd make people who boo'd have to fill in check boxes to give basic feedback and then text boxes to give a reason why they ticked it. Such as 'did you encounter a bug y/n?' and then if you pressed yes it would open a box forcing you to describe it.Which would hopefully encourage non spam feedback. However, removing boo's altogether is not the answer. I agree with the above! I've had a few boos recently with no comments. I actually sent a message to one of the gamer's asking why he booed and his response was "just felt like it"...

2012-04-13 12:23:00 Author: Unknown User

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I agree with the above! I've had a few boos recently with no comments. I actually sent a message to one of the gamer's asking why he booed and his response was "just felt like it"... Did he boo everything?

2012-04-13 14:06:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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As someone who cannot leave a review on a level without it being boo'd several times in the first hour, I'm okay with this. LittleBigPlanet is about embracing creativity and expression, not about negativity. Yet, this game tends to be very negative for a great number of people. Why is that? Let's have a look at some of my reviews: http://i.imgur.com/yHKrK.png http://i.imgur.com/ZsbVV.png http://i.imgur.com/atcvB.png http://i.imgur.com/rEQvm.png http://i.imgur.com/scuAy.png Do you think having the ability to boo these things is a good thing? Granted, these are reviews, and not levels, but it's an easy way to show that people will boo something for the silliest of reasons. And if they don't work for reviews, why do they work for levels? Boo's don't benefit anyone at the end of the day.

2012-04-14 00:01:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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...and this is why we can't have nice things.

2012-04-14 00:20:00 Author: gdn001 Posts: 5891

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oh here's another funny 1. when my friend Luos put out a level a while back me and his others friends all gone to play it. after we were done we reviewed it. my comment got a boo in under 30 seconds. fast huh? but by who. ends up it was by someone somewhat young in the same chat room as the rest of us. his reply was. (oops force of habit. i'll unboo them sorry) he did it just to try to get his own review higher. this is a very common thing you see happen. plus there are tons of people who boo levels because the level is popular or even just for no real reason at all, & you'd be surprised to know that is not uncommon. and i agree with comphermc. LBP is not about negativity. sure they can't get rid of all of it. but they can do things to help. and boos are nothing but negativity. *mew

2012-04-14 00:59:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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As boo review i aggre that boo could disapper on that :> LBP is not comment/review contest

2012-04-14 02:29:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Well boo's are not always used for the wrong. Boo's is just sometimes people personal opinion about a level. I really don't mind boo's because I boo a level if I think its bad ,and sometimes there isn't anything you can do then just boo it. Without people personal opinion people will keep on making bad levels without anyone knowing why. Thats why some people don't like bad reviews in their levels so they hate people opinions so they want to get rid of the boo button. I personally like it in ways of course even without the boo button we will still find out a way to troll anything online will have trolls it just the way of the internet we will still have these bad community levels like H44h levels and mortal kombat levels. So what they gonna do then? Remove everything with the word Mortal and Kombat in it? Then you know something else gonna come up then what sooner or later they gonna ban 1000 words then what ban users for publishing bad levels? What if they don't try to make troll levels they just publish a level to have fun ,and it get banned because it get on the cool pages. Do i hear Nazi Lbp?

2012-04-14 14:05:00 Author: tuyyui Posts: 175

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Even if they do remove the "boo" feature, they will probably create a new rating feature in the patch.

2012-04-14 16:47:00 Author: Iceychill56 Posts: 175

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Even if they do remove the "boo" feature, they will probably create a new rating feature in the patch. well that post way back... that this thread is based off of... said that not rating would be the new boo. I still don't like the idea of removing it though, imagine lbp1's 5 star system but removing stars 1 - 4 because people get upset... it's madness. Might as well just remove the rating system entirely as it would give just a good indication, especially with trophies that force people to like levels despite the actual quality, of the quality. I know my view is harsh, but praise is only worthwhile if it can stand against critisism too.

2012-04-14 17:18:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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I have been playing LBP1 and LBP2 almost exclusively since launch, and personally, I've never felt the need to express dissatisfaction with anyones levels... If I don't like it or feel that the level doesn't contain the visual and gameplay consistencies I look for, I don't say anything at all... (I've NEVER booed a level) I generally comb over a levels statistics extensively before I hit that 'play' button. If it shows up in my feed and I discover a positive review or two left by a devoted player whose opinion I value greatly, then I play it... if I take a chance on a bad level, I can just leave. I just feel that positivity can go a longer way! Instead of looking at boo ratios made by people who played the game for two weeks total and have like 3 random creator hearts, why not just see how many comments and reviews something has first? Ya know, if you like something, heart it... technically yeays would be redundant when paired with hearts... If someone chooses to remove their comments and reviews... Don't play it... Also if your going to get upset with someone's level, do it in a review... It's more up close and personal that way and can potentially shed more light on some random trolls reputation within the community! Trust me, after Ive researched your level reviews and comments, bad reviews won't deter me from playing your good levels! ...Apparently, Mm read all the reviews where people say: "Dear Mm there is a problem with this level... It has a boo button!"

2012-04-14 19:30:00 Author: Unknown User

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People should be able to take criticism. The only thing I like is being able to delete reviews, at least you can hit trolls, but disabling comments and not having boos means it'll be a lot harder for people to see if their levels need improving, which then has a possibility of hitting general level quality. Not to mention, boos are showing your opinion. I've had a couple of times where people have been raving about levels and I've found them awful. If I boo it and leave an insightful review saying why I didn't like it, and it gets deleted, what does that do? Only allows one point of view to be put forward, the creators. Freedom of speech and all that.

2012-04-14 21:45:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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I wouldn't say boos are only negative. Yes, boos are a negative response to a level, but they aren't used simply for malicious purposes. Everyone has their own opinion, I think they should have the right to show it in an easy and quickly accessible way. I don't think it's a bad thing to say you don't like something. You can be polite, but at the same time it's lying. With people who can take it, you should give them honest feedback. When you refrain yourself from displaying your truthful opinion, it only hinders the person in their quest to improve their abilities. If we really need to remove boos, make it optional. That choice would obviously still be abused throughout the community, but at least it doesn't take away from everyone. Plus, this is just my input, but without boos, where's the challenge to make a great level? Where's the incentive to impress everyone or as many people as you can? You'll always know who likes your level, but there's still that underlying inquiry--how many people DON'T like it? You may never know. Sorry, but your* level could be ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE and you won't even know it. There's that threat. You won't know progress, you won't know improvement without the negative yet constructive opinions of others. Unless, however, your ego is timid enough to leave your level judgement in tact. Now of course I'm not saying that what should propel you to make a good level is how bad or good your yay-to-boo ratio is, but still. You should at least consider it. That is part of what determines a good level. Sort of in response to Milton, I totally agree with your positive view, and I personally like it, but I still think we should balance our positiveness and realistic integrity. I really try my best to be nice, but you can be too nice. Honesty is a virtue as well, but those two conflict at times. I can understand why it'd fell weird to boo though. However, sometimes the best way to help a player is to give them negative--YET constructive feedback (if it is necessary). Yet, I've come to think that this is all based on the majority of the community's opinion. Like CCubbage said. I guess the views differ because of the many different experiences and reputations of boos. Oh well. I hope this doesn't change too much. *When I say "your", I'm not referring directly to you. Sorry if it sounds weird. :hero:

2012-04-14 21:49:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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[...] without boos, where's the challenge to make a great level? Where's the incentive to impress everyone or as many people as you can? Now here's something I can't agree with. We don't make levels with the intent of ensuring people don't dislike them. Have you ever been working on a level and thought, "Hm, no... I don't want to include that, since someone might boo me."? I'd be inclined to think that this is not the case. If you are concerned with people's opinions as motivation, you can incentivise your creation with the hunt for yay's. The point is that boo'ing levels doesn't truly offer anything to the creator. It does not tell them the level was too hard; that the level was too long; that there was a level escape; that the level was broken; et al. These things are done in reviews, and any dislike for the level can be expressed as such (hopefully with some constructive suggestions, or at least an explanation) with words.

2012-04-15 02:35:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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The point is that boo'ing levels doesn't truly offer anything to the creator. It does not tell them the level was too hard; that the level was too long; that there was a level escape; that the level was broken; et al. These things are done in reviews, and any dislike for the level can be expressed as such (hopefully with some constructive suggestions, or at least an explanation) with words. Good point. While having no negative (contructive) criticism could hurt players who never find out whats wrong, the boo system is too vague to really be helpful. I still don't think it's something that absolutely has to go, but as usual, there's no true harm if it does.

2012-04-15 03:18:00 Author: xxMATEOSxx Posts: 1787

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Now here's something I can't agree with. We don't make levels with the intent of ensuring people don't dislike them. Have you ever been working on a level and thought, "Hm, no... I don't want to include that, since someone might boo me."? I'd be inclined to think that this is not the case. If you are concerned with people's opinions as motivation, you can incentivise your creation with the hunt for yay's. I think thats highly debetable and mainly depends on creator personallaty and style, and i don't see what is wrong of doing something that people may like or avoid something that they don't like.

2012-04-15 03:40:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I've said this before, but maybe I should make it more clear. Point 1. There is some really AWFUL crap on LBP2. Point 2. People usually don't read the reviews before playing a level. Like somebody else said, LBP2 is like an art gallery-everybody likes looking at different pieces of art, but not many people are going to be mesmerized by one painting for an hour. If the art gallery made it so that you had to read a long description before looking at the art, not many people would go there. It's like with trolling levels, screamer levels, copied levels-etc. Not many are going to read the reviews. Rather, they would just glance at the boos. I know the boo system is abused a lot (I should know; one of my movies, THE DEATHINATOR, had Stephanie_Ravens in it and people booed it because I sacrificed myself to save her life-it's a little complicated), but I think in the end it does more good than bad.

2012-04-15 04:37:00 Author: Kalawishis Posts: 928

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The best way to put constructive criticism is by making it that if you hit boo you have to review and say why you disliked it. Then people can vote that review as whether it holds merit. Kind of like how youtube comments can be voted as spam and if enough report it as spam it shows up automatically as spam before you even see it. Really if you're going to say a level is boo then you should say why. They could do the same for positive reviews if they want to be fair but I'm sure not everyone wants to write a review.

2012-04-15 08:44:00 Author: Keyeszx Posts: 65

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Now here's something I can't agree with. We don't make levels with the intent of ensuring people don't dislike them. Have you ever been working on a level and thought, "Hm, no... I don't want to include that, since someone might boo me."? I'd be inclined to think that this is not the case. If you are concerned with people's opinions as motivation, you can incentivise your creation with the hunt for yay's. The point is that boo'ing levels doesn't truly offer anything to the creator. It does not tell them the level was too hard; that the level was too long; that there was a level escape; that the level was broken; et al. These things are done in reviews, and any dislike for the level can be expressed as such (hopefully with some constructive suggestions, or at least an explanation) with words. Now of course I'm not saying that what should propel you to make a good level is how bad or good your yay-to-boo ratio is, but still. You should at least consider it. That is part of what determines a good level.[at times] I do agree that leaving nothing but a boo is not helpful, but then you can still disable reviews (or even remove any sort of feedback completely apparently). That is one of the things I hope they don't remove either. The yays or boos may not be something that directly determines the quality of the level to some, but to me it's one good way of telling if I should really play it or not. I do sift through the feedback once in a while, but I never really find a level that is GOOD and has way more dislikes than likes. I find that most people boo for a good reason. There is the occasional troll or little kid who just wildly dislikes everything, but they are easily ignored and they usually don't overwhelm a person's level. Of course, there's always those copied levels that somehow got waaaay more likes than dislikes. But those are easy to point out and avoid. However, if all feedback or negative input may have been removed, you could land right in one and give that person another play. And you couldn't do anything but like or leave it. And for some reason, lots of people like it. I don't know why, it's just them. I also think you're right about how we shouldn't build our levels based off of the boo count, but I wasn't saying that was ALL you should worry about. But I still think boos serve a purpose here. Kind of the same as movie reviews. They use some kind of chart or meter to tell whether the majority thought it was good or if it was a bad movie. Of course, if hundreds of people hated something, one person out there could think it was the best thing ever, but they wouldn't tip the ratings or anything. Don't levels get on the more exposed pages based on likes? Or was it plays or hearts? I don't remember. But LBP's filter for the "cool levels" is already bad enough, I really don't think removing boos will make things much easier. For one, I doubt that how many reviews it has or the content of the reviews would determine if it could get there, one because that might be even more difficult, and also because all you could do is like, poker face, or leave some sort of constructive feedback if you didn't like it. There's another thing. If we remove boos, wouldn't we have to remove the neutral face also? I'd bet people would start using that as a replacement or something. It still isn't helping the creator. If boos really are useless, then so are the neutral faces. They don't add to the positive count any more than boos do. So the only relevant thing here is the happy face? I honestly don't see why boos should be removed. I don't like them, but I don't hate them. I just feel like it might force everyone to leave some sort of review. I don't think they're pointless either. I don't think there's anything wrong with not leaving feedback at times. I don't think people's opinions should be relevant only if they explain why they didn't like it every single time.

2012-04-15 11:22:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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I never boo levels, especially when I see that the creator has put a great deal of effort into it. I generally don't play levels that are made with little effort.

2012-04-16 14:24:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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Ok well let's look reasonably at why the BOO system is freakin ridiculous. Brilliant creators of LBP, can you tell me a time that another great creator BOOed your level other than to spam or joke with you? No? Didn't think so. They tend to say, "Great, but here's what you need to fix" Now... how many times have you recieved a Boo, and looked up that player only to see that it was simply a child with a silly profile pic and 3 player hearts and one copied published level? Hm...well idk about you guys but this happens EVERY *#@*(@*Y TIME! The boo system was a waste. Here's a GREAT example of why I hate it. I just published a fantastic Move level that I enjoy playing. However, when the children join it and find out they can't play it because it involves using a Move controller, they leave and leave a BOO along with it. I have about 50 boo's and 50 hearts on this great level and according to previous comments in this thread, that ratio will not suffice when a player is searching for a good level to play. SO!! In conclusion. **** OFF "BOO SYSTEM" and don't come back!

2012-04-16 16:00:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=69779-1.12-update-details I'll just throw this here.

2012-04-16 16:14:00 Author: DreJ1212 Posts: 240

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I don't understand these people that heart but don't yay.

2012-04-16 18:38:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I generally don't play levels that are made with little effort. ...and how are you going to tell if a level was made with effort before playing it if all indication of quality is concealed? I don't understand these people that heart but don't yay because hearting wasn't designed as a rating system, it allows players to mark a level to find again late, many players will not rate without completing the level first so this action makes perfect sense.

2012-04-16 18:46:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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WOW I never expected this thread to get many replies, wow quite a debate going on here lol! Thanks for everyone who gave there opinions

2012-04-16 19:24:00 Author: Screeno Posts: 153

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I don't understand these people that heart but don't yay. Some people treat hearting as bookmark feature, i use that this way thats why im hearting glitch levels for example since they might be useful later (for example i want to show it to someone). Considering rates now functions same as hearts, i think everyonr should switch to this way of thinking WOW I never expected this thread to get many replies, wow quite a debate going on here lol! Thanks for everyone who gave there opinions If you make thread about mmpicks, rates, hate in game or only other delicate topics then you always get ton of posts

2012-04-16 19:25:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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...and how are you going to tell if a level was made with effort before playing it if all indication of quality is concealed? because hearting wasn't designed as a rating system, it allows players to mark a level to find again late, many players will not rate without completing the level first so this action makes perfect sense. You can usually tell if there's been very little effort put in. Badge, description, level title etc.

2012-04-16 19:51:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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The entire system of finding levels is flawed to begin with. It's a brand new company that's trying brand new things. It's completely expected. Look at LBP1: They thought that having a rating system based on 1/5 stars was a good way for players to know whether or not a level was truly worth it. Problem is, how are you supposed to base these ratings? Effort? Coolness? The Visuals? The gameplay? Hearting was a way to bookmark a level to play again in the future. It turned into a big deal because they made it a required TROPHY to get 30 hearts as a player and 50 for a level published. This was a HUGE mistake. This created millions of "H4H/P4P" levels so that people could get the trophy faster. Leaving all the true creations in the dust. Why people care so much about these stupid trophies is based on psychological desire. We're challenged to accomplish a goal, we therefore feel that we have every right to accomplish that goal as anyone else who got it. This tends to blind us from the creative honest aspect of the entire concept of the game which is to play,create, and share. When LBP2 came along, Mm had a chance to fix their flawed system. They implement a Good/Bad rating system and keep the bookmark tool (heart). Now rating is even more simplistic so people have a better idea of how to rate a level. They either liked it, or hated it. Unfortunetly, people feel that they MUST rate a level either way, therefore if they didn't LOVE it, they hated it...which is clearly flawed thinking. Not everyone does this granted... but a majority of people will because the options are presented to you. With the addition of the "Queue" tool, the bookmark function of the heart is lost. The heart is now simply a way to say you loved the level and it's saved to your growing list of levels you probably will never play again (for the most part). Removing the Boo helps fix a major issue here. Players will either Love it and yay it, or just leave without saying another word about it. If they hate it, they'll be sure to leave a nasty comment about you. So what, use it to your advantage and adjust your level. If you choose to disable comments/reviews, that's your loss. Now you don't know what to fix. This is an advantage because now spammers don't have an outlet to attack players (which is a MAJOR issue for some players including myself in the past). Also, the heart now has it's function restored somewhat. Since a yay indicates that you love the level, a heart now shows that you liked it so much, you want to play it again. Otherwise, why heart it?! In short, this patch will fix issues that I feel should have been addressed way back when LBP1 was first released. Good work Media Molecule. Also...good work to anyone who read this, you are a very patient person.

2012-04-16 20:24:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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With the addition of the "Queue" tool, the bookmark function of the heart is lost. The heart is now simply a way to say you loved the level and it's saved to your growing list of levels you probably will never play again (for the most part). Except the queue is a oneshot benchmark and kind of useless for long term storage of levels. Players will either Love it and yay it, or just leave without saying another word about it. If they hate it, they'll be sure to leave a nasty comment about you. Even if they do hate it... that yay levels trophy will cause them to like it thus corrupting the results of a levels popularity. What do the people who believe a level isn't worth a smiley but still want the trophy do? Why should they be forced to rate a level against their personal belief as its the only was to get the platinum? I predict the arrival of boo sticker uploading.

2012-04-16 20:46:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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Now that boos have been removed how many more weeks will it be until people start complaining that not enough people yay their levels?

2012-04-16 20:55:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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I still have 90 some levels queued ready to play. I'd say the queue is pretty useful. Unless you plan on playing levels a year later..which...a new LBP will be out by then so why bother. Also, Boo sticker uploading? So what? They fixed that problem too. You can delete pictures uploaded easily in LBP2. So no..not a problem. Also, people will still complain yes. But so what? At least players like myself won't get spammed with garbage. That's what is ACTUALLY being fixed here.

2012-04-17 00:09:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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Ok, I used to rate: The level was worth playing :| The level needs improvement The level was very bad, junk-made or pointless <3 The level was so good that I'll play it again in a month Now I'll do: I would recommend this level to others :| I wouldn't recommend this level to others <3 Bookmark - I can bookmark a :| level if I think it has potential. But there's no way to say you hated the level except by Good Griefing. They should add the options of G.G. a level for a) it's a copy of TYPE AUTHOR HERE, b) it's a fake or empty level, c) it is a h4h or similar type of level. And after let's say 15 GG of one type on a level, it alerts the modos.

2012-04-17 03:03:00 Author: Unknown User

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I dislike H4H/copyed levels as much as the next guy, but it seems like it's not really what the good grief function is for. I always thought it was for legitimately damaging/inappropriate material.

2012-04-17 04:03:00 Author: xxMATEOSxx Posts: 1787

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I feel as it kinda ruined the whole concept of having people rate your level. Now it's "Like it, Love it, Or Leave it." I don't know about you guys, but whenever I left a "Boo" I went ahead, and wrote why. That's what should've happened. If you "boo", then you need to leave a reason. Sure, you'll get some kids saying "g aaay", but you can easily delete those and continue with your day. H4H Stock is going to sky-rocket now btw

2012-04-17 09:23:00 Author: Captain_Dinosaur Posts: 214

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Boos are for meanies.

2012-04-17 09:37:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Ok, I used to rate: The level was worth playing :| The level needs improvement The level was very bad, junk-made or pointless <3 The level was so good that I'll play it again in a month Now I'll do: I would recommend this level to others :| I wouldn't recommend this level to others <3 Bookmark - I can bookmark a :| level if I think it has potential. But there's no way to say you hated the level except by Good Griefing. They should add the options of G.G. a level for a) it's a copy of TYPE AUTHOR HERE, b) it's a fake or empty level, c) it is a h4h or similar type of level. And after let's say 15 GG of one type on a level, it alerts the modos. On LBP1, I was very stingy with my hearts. I'm a lot more generous with them nowadays. Tend to award them for innovation more than anything. For example, there are some nice good looking platformers out there, some get MM picked, but I don't usually heart them unless they have some sort of innovative gameplay. Many are just bog standard platforming.

2012-04-17 10:23:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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I think removing boos is dumb. It's a valid form of feedback. Accepting that some people won't like your work is the first thing an artist or author should learn. So a few babies come crying in the forums because their precious little level gets a few boos, what's the big deal? Removing boos won't change the fact that some people didn't like your level. This is just a childish measure to make the community look more welcoming than it really is.

2012-04-17 15:05:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Boos are for meanies. Meanie will make a level disable reviews and comments and then all you can do is Yey or STFU

2012-04-17 15:07:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Also, people will still complain yes. But so what? At least players like myself won't get spammed with garbage. That's what is ACTUALLY being fixed here. The boo system, however rudimentary, still functions better than the no-boo system does. I've been online (after the update) and have looked at some previously-played levels that I've liked, and I've found that it is very difficult to effectively identify which ones I liked (and that others liked) better than others. With the old system, a simple yay to boo ratio that could help me to find good levels. Now it will be much more difficult. What people are overlooking is the fact that boo's may be a rather extreme method of expressing an opinion (you either like it or you hate it, as various people have mentioned), but the fact of the matter is that overall, the trend in yays to boos will usually identify the best level out of a group of levels that look relatively the same just from the initial descriptions and icons. Though booing is often done by kids or haters, the relative pattern of booing serves as a good indicator of the actual quality of the level. This is not to say that booing does not have its faults. For popular levels, especially ones on the Cool Pages or that have been MM Picked, boos tend to be higher; spammers, for the most part, are lazy, and aren't going to go far to find a suitable target to pick on. However, this actually helps to identify the "best of the best." When a level has a high enough number of plays, and becomes truly a popular level, or is made with a level of skill that is truly professional grade, it becomes difficult to judge alongside levels of similar construction. With the boo system, popular levels attracted spammers and haters, but the system still prevailed; the better levels usually got the better ratings. When a school talent show is held, judges are much more forgiving in regards to the contestants' skills and abilities. When BGT or AGT is in session, contestants are not judged on the school talent show level, but on a professional scale. LBP is (was) much the same way. What you say is "garbage" or "spam" is really a separate issue. This can be fixed in other ways other than deleting the boo. The most logical is to simply make the player add a tag to go along with their boo. A review would turn players away from booing, and some constructive feedback would be lost because players didn't have the time or simply didn't feel like putting in the work to create a review. Just add a couple tags onto existing ones, or give them a different color to make sure that players know that these are negative issues the level has (ex. tags could include: "Too difficult," "Cannot Complete," "Glitch," "Got Stuck," etc.). Another fix to the boo system would be to give the player the ability to cancel boos on one of their levels, but in doing so prevent it from being "inducted" into the Cool Pages or the Highest Rated categories. This could be used for Lockboxes, Betas, or levels that use DLC (ex. a level that requires use of the Move) to prevent unwarranted boos just because players did not understand the purpose or intent of the level. On this note, levels where a Move is required could be given the option to not allow anyone not playing with a Move to boo the level. Basically, the boo system had its flaws, but eliminating it completely is a bit unreasonable. The system can be fixed?it doesn't have to be removed. I hope MM works on improving the system to reintroduce at some point, because the non-boo system isn't nearly as useful as the old system was, in spite of its difficulties.

2012-04-17 15:10:00 Author: spiffyspleen Posts: 23

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I think removing boos is dumb. It's a valid form of feedback. Accepting that some people won't like your work is the first thing an artist or author should learn. Except that a lot of these 'artists' are maybe only 7 years old and aren't yet able to make a first class level. That's not to say they won't pour their heart and soul into it! Seriously people this isn't real life, nobody needs to get their feelings hurt.

2012-04-17 16:35:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Except that a lot of these 'artists' are maybe only 7 years old and aren't yet able to make a first class level. That's not to say they won't pour their heart and soul into it! Seriously people this isn't real life, nobody needs to get their feelings hurt. If a few boos seriously get your feelings hurt, then a good dose of reality is exactly what you need.

2012-04-17 22:05:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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If a few boos seriously get your feelings hurt, then a good dose of reality is exactly what you need. I was talking about the 7 year olds... Nobody needs a good dose of reality at age 7 and certainly not from a video game lol.

2012-04-18 09:15:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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So what, they learn the lesson a little bit earlier. Actually no, it's never too early to learn that the world will not always unconditionally appreciate everything you do. They'll get over it. You're making it sound like they'll be visiting a psychologist in a few years just because they got booed. When I was 7 and wanted to be praised for creating something crappy, I'd make a drawing for my mother to hang on the fridge. Those kids can do the same.

2012-04-18 10:11:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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So what, they learn the lesson a little bit earlier. Actually no, it's never too early to learn that the world will not always unconditionally appreciate everything you do. They'll get over it. You're making it sound like they'll be visiting a psychologist in a few years just because they got booed. Yes that's exactly what I said. Mind you don't fall off that high horse.

2012-04-18 11:35:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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I dont not like this update and its for the simple reason that removing the boo system causes more problems than it solves: Why remove it? Its such a simple question with no real answer other than " Well boos upset people." User generated community's thrive off of two things: creators and players. Creators need feedback( both good and bad) to be able to access what thier strengths and weaknesses are. Not everyone wants to write reviews( since only the popular ones get shown anyway), so boos arent powerful, but the negative element compliments the "Like" feature and makes it more balanced. Removing the option to negatively rate a level conflicts with the "Like" system. Why have likes, when there are no dislikes? Its power is lost and in turn it becomes very redundant and makes it difficult to wade through the millions of levels in LBP and play good levels. If they wanted to fix the Boo system, all they had to do was only present the option to rate a level negatively if the player has finished the level, or some other restrictions along those lines. What they also need to do, is have a rating system attached to reviews. Similar to metacritic, show the highest and lowest reviews. This for newer creators show that every level has its flaws no matter how popular it is, and make them more acceptant to negetive feedback. Additionally, it will help more people feel inclined to write honest reviews instead of ones that get "Liked". However, I strongly feel to try to remove negetive feedback on levels, is alienating not only the players who want to rate levels how they want to, but it makes it harder for more serious creators to find how just how well their levels are being received. Newer creators dont get a ton of plays, so sometimes just seeing a good boo/yay ratio, is enough to keep em going.

2012-04-18 17:33:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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sometimes just seeing a good boo/yay ratio, is enough to keep em going. The Plays to Yays ratio will do exactly the same thing. If you want to negatively rate a level, don't yay it. It's just a passive way of giving a Boo and less open to abuse.

2012-04-18 18:02:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Nope, they're just forcing us into a neutral stance by taking away the chance to give negative feedback. It's like "Ok, if your opinion is negative you don't have the right to express it anymore". Boos were useful, because plenty of times a ridiculously bad level would get a spot on the Cool Pages and get loads of plays. But you could still tell if it's worth playing by checking out the boo to yay ratio. Now without the boos, it'll be much harder to tell and more people will play more crappy levels.

2012-04-18 18:18:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Lol, you'll still be able to tell if there's a rubbish level on the cool pages, as it'll have tons of plays yet hardly any yays. You don't need to vote something down to have a negative effect, to simply keep it lacking in votes will do exactly the same thing.

2012-04-18 18:39:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Oh Wake up people. For God's sake. When was the last time you ever recieved useful feedback from someone who BOOed your level. The only Boos players ever got were jealous players, children who didn't know better, or trolls. I have NEVER recieved a Boo that was justified for any particular reason. I might have recieved ONE from this one guy, but he just hated "yanks" in general. While it may seem like we're losing a valuable form of feedback. WE ARE NOT! Boos were useless from the start and if they bring them back, will have NO effect on the game. We only find good levels through use of websites associated with the game and Mm Picks. Other than that, hidden gems, regardless of whether or not there is a "Boo" system, will remain just that...hidden.. in a sea of garbage. People are wasting their time complaining about patches because they're afraid of change. The Boo system was flawed. And just so I don't get people who mindlessly reply without reading everything, let me summarize. Boos were only ever given by IMMATURE CHILDREN, by TROLLS, or by MISTAKE. Now your levels will be judged simply by how many people like it. Not by how many people hate it. Also, to the people who think children need their feelings hurt early in life to learn the harsh lessons of the world. OPEN A PSYCHOLOGY BOOK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. EDIT: Sorry had to get that out. Too much ignorance here in this thread. No child should have to suffer from abuse, especially in a video game like LittleBigPlanet, where the cover shows a big smiling sack of sunshine and happiness.

2012-04-18 19:09:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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"Boos were only ever given by IMMATURE CHILDREN, by TROLLS, or by MISTAKE. " hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Or you know, maybe people didn't like the level? Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

2012-04-18 19:25:00 Author: bonner123 Posts: 1487

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Whoa, all-caps and partially censored cussing! Someone desperately wants to be taken seriously! Sorry had to get that out. Too much ignorance here in this thread. No child should have to suffer from abuse, especially in a video game like LittleBigPlanet, where the cover shows a big smiling sack of sunshine and happiness. Insults are abusive. Cyber-bullying is abusive. Constant trolling is abusive. Rudeness is abusive. All those things hurt feelings for real. But boos aren't abusive. They're just a form of feedback, a way to express one's opinion. If kids can't see that then they shouldn't be playing this game. Just because it's rated E doesn't mean that the whiny 7 year olds are the demographic MM should try to appease. They're not the demographic that makes the community great and never will be. LBP isn't all about sunshine and flowers. There are pretty dark and violent levels in the community, containing gore, blood, killing and adult themes. That's not the kind of thing 7 year old kids should be exposed to. So apparently they can handle that kind of stuff but getting booed is a problem? Well, aren't you the psychology master.

2012-04-18 19:42:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Boos were only ever given by IMMATURE CHILDREN, by TROLLS, or by MISTAKE. Prove it also... they should reintroduce the boo face... but rename it 'Almost AwesomeSauce'... that way we get a more effective rating system that isn't as brutish as a 'boo' and will be nicer on feelings. I'm all for making lbp a nicer place... just not at the cost of free speech. Surely a compromise could be found... 'Almost AwesomeSauce' face with the return of compulsary tagging if selected... maybe?

2012-04-18 20:05:00 Author: ForgottenEnigma Posts: 1414

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I'm thrilled that there gone no one can rate my levels down no more hahaha Sadly tho when people play my levels i can never see the plays or yays they stay 0..0 yays,0,plays

2012-04-18 20:57:00 Author: Lbphart3 Posts: 813

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@bonner123 remeber when i said there was one person who booed my levels because he hated yanks? @snepysev And the ignorance continues. Yes the Boo is MEANT for players to rate a level down because they didn't like it. But again, someone who honestly sat down and played a level that had effort put into it and just Booed it because he/she didn't like it is VERY VERY VERY RARE. You want me to prove it? Take this into account, we hold an Open mic night here in my community building on campus every other wednesday night where all kinds of different people come out and show off some of their musical talent infront of people. Now if someone terrible goes up to the mic and honestly tries to sing and just has terrible tone and pitch, what does the audience do? Does the audience boo them off? Tell them they suck? Thumbs down?! Frowny face the performer? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! The audience will sit there and fake it to show support for someone. If you show support and offer advice to improve, that person will be more encouraged to improve their skills rather than just give up. If you show lack of support and BOO them, then they most likely will just give up, not try, and consider that it's just not for them. This is a very common thing in classrooms dealing with diversity. When students are taking tests and know from stereotypes that they will not do as well as the "Asian kids" on math, they may not try as hard and just assume they will fail. Also the asian kids themselves will feel the pressure of the entire stereotype on their shoulders which can effect the stress level (adrenaline hormone) and causes their scores to be lower. So tell me Snipysev, who's the idiot who taught you Psychology? In response to LBP not being a happy friendly game for children, the game is NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE VIOLENCE AND GORE. That's why there's a good grief system with a label saying "Violent" and "Obscene" I don't want my 7 year old nephew being exposed to some of the material that the community has been producing. If the ESRB would have their way, that violence stuff would have been banned at first sight and not available to the online community to enforce the E rating. That's what it says at the beginning the the rating can vary when playing online. Yes there are older players who play LBP and want mature content, but it needs to satisfy all parties. It needs to be made E for everyone. You can't just assume everyone who is little is a whiny 7 year old brat. You also can't just assume that your parenting technique of exposing them to the cruelties of the world is the right one. You have no right to enforce when they develop this understanding. How about you step out of the 2 pre-reflective stages of Judgement and develop a theory of mind. @Dav1d0 I can prove it. Every level I've published i've researched who boo's my levels. They all have maybe one or 2 author hearts and only heart levels that give them free things or appeal to small children (Spongebob, batman, poo poo in my pants) Also, freedom of speech can never exist with a censorship system (good grief system). There is an illusion but no actual freedom to do what we want in game. __________________________________________________ _________________________ Alright... well. According to the reflectivve stages of judgement, even my reasoning will not convince any of you to even consider other options because of confirmation bias... so. I'm gonna go continue to do some homework. In the end, it's Media Molecules decision whether ot not to keep the Boo's. And for now, we are Booless... hehe....booless..

2012-04-19 00:09:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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While it may seem like we're losing a valuable form of feedback. WE ARE NOT! Boos were useless from the start and if they bring them back, will have NO effect on the game. We only find good levels through use of websites associated with the game and Mm Picks. Other than that, hidden gems, regardless of whether or not there is a "Boo" system, will remain just that...hidden.. in a sea of garbage. People are wasting their time complaining about patches because they're afraid of change. The Boo system was flawed. And just so I don't get people who mindlessly reply without reading everything, let me summarize. Boos were only ever given by IMMATURE CHILDREN, by TROLLS, or by MISTAKE. Now your levels will be judged simply by how many people like it. Not by how many people hate it. Also, to the people who think children need their feelings hurt early in life to learn the harsh lessons of the world. OPEN A PSYCHOLOGY BOOK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. Sorry had to get that out. Too much ignorance here in this thread. No child should have to suffer from abuse, especially in a video game like LittleBigPlanet, where the cover shows a big smiling sack of sunshine and happiness. It doesnt take a degree in psychology to see that the subtraction of the boo system will cause just as many problems as the previous system. Kids complain about about everything.The only thing that changes now is that they will complain their levels dont get enough "Likes." If you take away the boo system, you mind as well take away the Like system because it really no longer serves any purpose, as a shortage of likes could easily be interpreted as hatred for levels( since we are using kids as the only justification for this inclusion anyway--some will think like that). In user generated communities, negativity will always be present. Which is why I find the new patch laughable at best. While I do agree SOME members of the community mis-use the boo system--thats every user based community. And now its going to be harder to distinguish the good levels from the "effortless ones". If you ask me, no kid that young should be on the internet in the first place. Its pretty impossible to avoid some sort of negativity.

2012-04-19 01:08:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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So you show support by "faking" you approval? By lying to someone? You can say you don't like something while still giving feedback on how to improve. That way you help the creator and you don't need to be dishonest. MM seems to be perfectly fine with the violence. Many MM Picks have it. Just take a look at Ungreth's "Space Assassin" level in which a guy is sucked into space and implodes into a mass of blood and entrails. There's 6 death animations in the game itself. The Metal Gear Solid Pack is war-themed. In the tutorials, Stephen Fry references directors of violent movies (Tarantino and Kubrick) and jokes about violently injuring that test doll. As far as we know, no one was banned for making a violent level. If MM and Sony allow levels with this content, who's to say there's no place for such levels in the community? ESRB, PEGI and other software regulation organizations are the ones to blame for giving the game inaccurate ratings. This game doesn't revolve around 7 year olds. This community wouldn't be half as great as it is now if everyone created kid-friendly levels.

2012-04-19 01:25:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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I feel like joining this heated discussion > So, uh, no boo's eh? I can see both sides of the arguement. One side is that you can't share your opinion, can't get feedback, etc. The other is that trollers kept spamming the Boo button so people got mad. Well, I got a solution. (I heard it somewhere on LBPC.. if you recognize this as your opinion, PM me and I will say "I agree with [enter name here]'s opinion because.. yadda yadda yadda..)... Well, this person came up with this idea that both solves the troller problem, and the feedback problem. What if, if you were to boo a level, the game will automatically make you give a reason why? For example, I want to boo a level, I select the sad face. The game redirects me to a submenu-ish-thingy and gives me a checklist of things that need to be improved in the level. This can be things like: -Better scenery -Better gameplay -Offensive -Not fun The list can go on. Now, I can assume trollers would not want to go through this checklist just to troll. So, that would stop that (I hope). Also, the creator is getting the feedback they need at the same time! BADA BOOM BADA BING .. Sorry, I had to. Do you agree or not? I'm open to opinions and heated discussions >

2012-04-19 01:50:00 Author: Wolffy123 Posts: 406

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http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-smile%28b%29.gif Heh, perhaps I may have a few words in this debate? http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-glasses%28a%29.gif Ahem. This patch for one seems to be quite divided in whether or not this patch is good or bad... on one side, it removes any "sad" feelings, but at the same time seems to remove accurate feedback. http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-headshake.gif Ohohoh... which side do I take? http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-uneasy%28b%29.gif I for one embrance both ends. My opinion is, how you say, undesicive, at best. Mainly because, I've fell victim to both situations. Instances where boos have poked at my heart, and at the same time enhanced my ability. http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-confident%28b%29.gif Even though I'm more mature now, it was a bit hurtful when that one kid disliked and said, "This is total (censored)", without any feedback, and I even raged HIS levels. Obviously, I'm more composed now, but... still there. http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-uneasy%28b%29.gif Other instances, everyone found my music well, but it was that one comment (can't say who... don't remember.) that made me see, "Ohhhh so that's how you use percussion..." and made my music much better then the LBP2 beta. http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-normal%28b%29.gif Overall, it looks more like a win-lose situation. I don't really have much other opinion than that... http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-confident%28b%29.gif However, I will say this: LBP2 is like a cycle of evolution. Things in the environment change, some for the good and some for the bad. For all creatures, there are three options to change, and that is the either adapt, move, or die. Unless Mm makes another patch to settle the issues by popular demand, you all will have to do one of those three. Get used to it, stay away from the "Cool Pages", or move on somewhere else. http://www.court-records.net/animation4/kristoph1-smile%28b%29.gif Simple as that.

2012-04-19 02:21:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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I was about to say, people would not want to be forced to fill out a survey every time they play, but this would only be if you boo in the first place so that would be fair. I have no major problem with it being gone since I don't think I ever even used it and wouldn't have been greatly affected if it stayed. However, I'm just not a fan of the reasoning MM stated for dropping it. Rather than the well reasoned arguments people have made here, what I saw was basically along the lines of people's feelings being hurt when they see a boo. Now, this is fair enough, I just wish we lived in a world where people can just get over it so those who used the feedback legitimately can use it if they want. As for kids and critiscism, as someone who encounters kids regularly and was one himself, I think their more reslient than we give them credit for. If anything, a trolling comment would be more damaging than a simple boo. On a related note, I'm kind of disappointed that now any level I already had out will be slanted. The one nice thing about not gaining alot of plays, and therefore, positive reviews, is that you don't get many negative spam reviews either. I only had maybe three, but now even those few are gone, so my ratings are a LIE!!! Fortunately I still have my favorite spam criticism. Someone posting that I stole their idea and therefore my level sucked. Not only was their level made a year after the one they commented on, which in turn was made a year or more after the first level of that kind, but I took it as an interesting way of saying my level was worth stealing, and was therefore good. I think that's a much more effective way of viewing all of this negativity.

2012-04-19 02:24:00 Author: xxMATEOSxx Posts: 1787

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But, I also have to agree with the ratio of Boo's - Yays.. I found this SO helpful when choosing good levels to play. Not only that, my levels had amazing Boo-Yay ratios. One of my levels had a 1-100 Boo-Yay ratio (1 boo to 100 yays).. But now its just.. Play - yay? Now the ratio is 1 yay for every 10 plays or something, which is sucky.

2012-04-19 02:34:00 Author: Wolffy123 Posts: 406

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I would have liked to see the yeay/boo option removed from the black screen upon ending a level, and just bumped over to the reviews... Just leave a face, tag, and at least 1 character for a review... But oh well!

2012-04-19 03:28:00 Author: Unknown User

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Lol! My levels are Boo free! I got a reprieve from the haters. As a person that has had my levels booed many a times by people that never give reasons or feedback it really annoyed me, because I would look and see if the level was broken only to find they most likely booed it right away because they were tired of waiting for it to load (I don't get tons of plays so the weird ones stick out more). I have been booed many times for the player not wanting to read text or directions (not talking about my beta levels with tons of issues but the ones I had gone through with a fine tooth comb). I never left people boos, and even in my more bitter reviews I still noted people for the effort they put in, so it is funny for someone that makes a level take involves a bunch of prize bubbles, a few simple objects, and a score board to boo your level that took months and fills the termo a few times over using the emiter trick. That is neither here nor there, I do think that they should place a feeback rule for people that leave boos (smiles would eb nice too...but that would keep tons people from rating at all). I don't think the drop-down is a good idea since many people just hit whatever leaving you confused by the random choice they made...the button mashing also results in many boos...I have caught it occuring when I am trying to get to the pod after playing a level (but I always go back and fix it). That is all, just thought it was funny boos are gone...I was tired of getting all my LBP1 levels booed because they were glitched in LBP2, honestly that is just not right, I took so much time fixing the first one that glitched only to get about 16 or so plays, and there are 5 more levels to it... Oh and I hope they add Airships to Starhawk, I know it has nothing to do with LBP2, but I really would like them added...so if anyone out there has connections make it happen.

2012-04-19 03:54:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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@Snipysev Again...read what I said. I did not say that you just lie to the performer and say it was good. You need to praise it and offer advice on how to improve. Therefore you'll encourage him/her to keep trying, and shape the desired behaviour. I agree with all the points you make Snipysev, it makes perfect sense. But the ability to tell someone that their work sucked is not needed when you have the option to leave feedback instead that is ACTUALLY useful. Boo's are frustrating to get mainly because they lack feedback in order to shape the level and fix it. This new system encourages not only ignorance (which yes, is bad) but it may also encourage players who really hate my levels (like bonner123) to actually leave feedback in the comments/reviews. And no you don't need a Psychology major to see a correlation between removal of a system and its effect, but it does help to understand WHY there's a correlation.

2012-04-19 13:08:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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@Fang Adapt, move, or die? Isn't moving a form of adapting.......?

2012-04-19 13:10:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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@Fang Adapt, move, or die? Isn't moving a form of adapting.......? That is an intersting question. I would assume that adapting refers to an alteration that allows survival, while moving would imply we could not adapt, but had already adapted the moving gene so to speak. I wonder where one looks to find this out. (oh my orginal post was going to read...Woooo-hooo...I am king of the world, my levels are all so good I have zero Boos!)

2012-04-19 14:59:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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I was kinda slightly being sarcastic. Moving is definetly a form of adaptation. And I would go into why but it would be getting very offtopic. But for the sake of making good conversation, adjusting our positions in response to a stimulus (like plants growing towards sunlight) is a form of adaptation to the environment. Adaptation doesn't imply that it needs to be passed down by means of a gene and seperate generations. You can adapt simply by reacting to something. Therefore moving is indeed an adaptation.

2012-04-19 15:03:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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For all you guys who want the boos back, here some reasons why you dont need it: Rating- If your looking between 2 levels, and now that theres no "Boo" feature you can't tell which one to play, just play both. Cool Pages- You shouldn't need boos to figure out which level to play. The title should be self explanitory. Heck, just dont play Cool Pages at all Feedback- Since people can't leave boos, if they want to boo it they'll have to write a review, Which is more constructive then an emoticon. A simple sad face does not provide enough feedback for you to improve, anyways. For people who want to leave boos- Well, now your going to have to write a review to boo someone. A single emoticon didnt do anyone any good anyways. To sum this up, MM removed the "boo" feature because leaving a "boo" didn't do the creator who was getting booed any good. It doesn't explain what they did wrong, and just leaves them unincouraged. (Is that a word?) MM removed it because they wanted people to write a review on what someone did wrong because its a heck of a lot more helpful than an emoticon.

2012-04-19 15:08:00 Author: DominationMags Posts: 1840

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Glad the boos are gone. Of the endless number of levels I've played between LBP1 and 2, only 4 times have I ever booed or 1 star rated a level. They were offensive and served no purpose in Little Big Planet. All you people begging for the boo back have your priorities in the wrong place. LBP was a better place before the boo. This game is not about spreading negativity, it's about inspiring creativity and having fun.

2012-04-19 15:51:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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Glad the boos are gone. Of the endless number of levels I've played between LBP1 and 2, only 4 times have I ever booed or 1 star rated a level. They were offensive and served no purpose in Little Big Planet. All you people begging for the boo back have your priorities in the wrong place. LBP was a better place before the boo. This game is not about spreading negativity, it's about inspiring creativity and having fun. BOOO!!! (just kidding!) Yeah.. I never used boo's. I never really found it nice to use regardless.. If something was really offensive and hateful, I would end up good griefing over giving it a boo. No sense leaving a calling card to someone that didn't care what they said in the game. I would rather leave some constructive criticism and commend them for what they could do rather than boo them. Especially concerning younger creators. That would be like going to a grade school band concert and booing them. They tried their best.. they are only so good. Give them a break!! I have given smiley faces and sometimes hearts to them just because they really did really good for their age or found it really cute. Just like those pictures you hang up on a fridge from a 2 year old relative. You actually going to boo that? Now if you are much younger that might not make any sense because you are too cool for any such thing, but remember when your mom would proudly hang your artwork on the fridge? She really didn't boo it did she? At least I hope not! I am hoping she loved whatever you did... even if you couldn't keep it anywhere in the lines.

2012-04-19 17:37:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Ok I can not believe the cool pages is all about the Boo settings I mean come on. its like no matter what they well complain about anything. I bet if Mm put it back they would complain about that. I made a little film about this today and it has a positive msg to it that everyone seems to be forgetting about the whole purpose of this game Mm made for us to enjoy. http://lbp.me/v/-r-9hc

2012-04-19 18:03:00 Author: The_Lil_JoKeR Posts: 745

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It really sounds like a lot of you are parroting what MM said out of brand loyalty, if they added a third option you'd likely trumpet it with fluffy words about how it better achieves LBP's goals. Having a fast easy way to check if a level is worth playing was very convenient, looking through reviews filled with one to two word replies and writing constructive reviews with the PS3's on screen keyboard is not very convenient. Cool Pages stopped being a great resource about 3 months after the game launched so it's not like it being less useful is a big deal breaker to me, MM Picks and following feeds of other creators is way more useful. But this is the first time I've been annoyed with MM, this is like Bioware's current method of ripping out anything and everything that they think doesn't work rather than working with and improving it.

2012-04-19 18:29:00 Author: BinaryStarman Posts: 6

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THank you to everyone who responded below me. Finally people who realize how pointless Boo's were and how they were doing much more harm then good.

2012-04-19 18:37:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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It really sounds like a lot of you are parroting what MM said out of brand loyalty, if they added a third option you'd likely trumpet it with fluffy words about how it better achieves LBP's goals. Having a fast easy way to check if a level is worth playing was very convenient, looking through reviews filled with one to two word replies and writing constructive reviews with the PS3's on screen keyboard is not very convenient. Cool Pages stopped being a great resource about 3 months after the game launched so it's not like it being less useful is a big deal breaker to me, MM Picks and following feeds of other creators is way more useful. But this is the first time I've been annoyed with MM, this is like Bioware's current method of ripping out anything and everything that they think doesn't work rather than working with and improving it. I agree with you in the fact that the boos are not a huge deal either way. I've been contemplating upon this for long, and I really think it being a good or a bad thing remains undecided. I'm not asking for them back, because Mm knows what they're doing, and I'm fine with that if that's how they want to keep the game healthy. However, there are several reasons on BOTH instances why this update can be good or bad. I already kinda said something like this on another thread concerning this issue, but it's not a carbon copy, so meh. I do agree that the removal of boos provides for a more friendly and somewhat open community, and that it encourages creators themselves, not the idea of creativity, to bloom. However, I am still against the idea that it was "useless". It may not have had many functions in the game, but like I said, Mm knows and knew what they are and were doing, so it had to be there for more reasons than one may think. The reason they removed it may have been because its purpose was offensive or hindering, but they DID drag bad levels down from being exposed. Maybe this is why most people against this are upset, because they feel their opinion has been eradicated along with the boo itself. Lots of people are saying "then why not remove 'copy'?" That's a good question. I personally think it's because even copy has some good uses, but it is universally abused for fame. I wouldn't be surprised if they started eyeballing it as well. Because one reason the boo was removed WAS because it was being spammed by trolls and misused by little children, but it wasn't as significant as the copy's malevolent use IMO. Loads of people are saying that it's ruined the Cool Pages, but when were they "cool" in the first place? However, there are some pretty good points as to why this could affect it even more. I've already said that, like, four times, so yeah. The only reason I didn't entirely like the removal was because of the reasons it would be removed for. They seemed a bit ridiculous to me at the time. There were many "what if"s, and "what about"s, but Mm has THEIR reasons as well, and we should respect each others' opinions. I hope you don't mind me quoting a few people on the subject?: the boo was terrible made you feel really down plus stupid little kiddies just booed level for no reason Good bye BOO, I hated it.. Had too many BOO's on my levels and NO feedback.. I think this is a GREAT update.. Finally the boos are going to disappear I was tired of ungrateful players who can't even read the description to complete a level, and was tired of messaging them saying did you read and 100% of the time they all say no. Also for people who don't know jack about the level rating system you often get people who rate it boo for no logical reason so its good that it disappearing. The biggest problem with the LBP community is that no one can take criticism, and the removal of the boo just strengthens this. Congrats on censoring a large part of the entire community's voice with this update, finding good levels on Cool pages is impossible now without reading through reviews now what a waste, I never saw the old system abused good levels got rated up and bad levels got rated down simple as that. You guys might think you're being clever by coping Facebook's system of not having a dislike button but LBP isn't Facebook it's a community driven video game and the community needs a way to voice their opinion without spending 5 minutes typing a review on the PS3's janky on-screen keyboard. You're just making it easy for horrible levels to get played.... Well, now that the deed is done, I doubt griping or celebrating would do any good. I just hope this doesn't screw up LBP too much. I hope this turns out awesome.

2012-04-19 19:27:00 Author: Sackpapoi Posts: 1195

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It really sounds like a lot of you are parroting what MM said out of brand loyalty, if they added a third option you'd likely trumpet it with fluffy words about how it better achieves LBP's goals. Ummm.... no. That attitude would assume immature people mindlessly following MM. People such as Jaeyden and Kaminski are mature adults who gain nothing by that attitude. Personally, the reason I like "boos" going away is because of my experience with my son. I teach him to not be overly-sensitive of the way other kids treat him. I don't want him getting upset over every little thing in life. In school he's going to have people who don't like him, and there will be people he doesn't like. That's fine. HOWEVER, LBP2 is a game that inspires creativity. I want him to have fun, or he won't play. If I take him to the park and kids are bullying him, do I say "take it like a man! You're fine!"?? No. What's the point playing in the park if he's being bullied? It wouldn't be fun. I take him home. Boos cause negativity. They cause hurt feelings. They don't belong in a kids game where all ages are sharing their art. Glad they're gone.

2012-04-19 20:35:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Is the (yays : boos) ratio actually more useful, or significantly easier to interpret than (yays : plays), or (hearts : plays)? There is no reason to go into the reviews to get a quick look at how popular a level is, you can gauge that from the remaining stats.

2012-04-19 20:53:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Is the (yays : boos) ratio actually more useful, or significantly easier to interpret than (yays : plays), or (hearts : plays)? There is no reason to go into the reviews to get a quick look at how popular a level is, you can gauge that from the remaining stats. I don't think they get it.

2012-04-19 21:04:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Hearts to plays ratio is sooo last decade. But, in seriousness, that used to be the main way of guaging the quality or "popularity" of a level. Arguably likes to unique plays is slightly more useful as you get a higher proportion of likes than plays. Also, likes to unique plays is arguably better than likes to boos, on the basis that boos are noisy with people abusing them. So, try looking at the ratio of how many people have played the level vs how many people have enjoyed the level. It works.

2012-04-19 21:15:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I never based my judgement on the amount of hearts and plays. Doing so is how we miss out on awesome levels. You simply find something that interests you and play it and see if it's fun. I found this freakin awesome "Bejewled" type game once that had like...11 hearts and 4 boos and only 20 plays just by looking through random levels. The community needs to stop caring so much about the freakin hearts and yays and start just playing the game to enjoy it. People take this game WAY too seriously. People are making the levels for YOU to enjoy for free! They're spending HOURS to make levels with NO PAY. Give them a freakin yay for that at least. Or at least just enjoy the level which is all that really matters.

2012-04-20 00:55:00 Author: Nick930930 Posts: 878

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I never based my judgement on the amount of hearts and plays. Doing so is how we miss out on awesome levels. You simply find something that interests you and play it and see if it's fun. Totally agree. Although ratios aren't just for players, creators need them too. Nobody wants to spend months on a level and not have any indication of it's popularity.

2012-04-20 09:44:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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From the threads popping up around here I think creators are mostly worried about absolute plays, not ratios. So it might help if people looking for something to play didn't fuss about ratios, plays or whatever and just tried something that had an interesting name, badge, pictures or description.

2012-04-20 13:12:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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If I personally had the choice, I'd make the ranking system as follows : --------------------------- - No direct yay/boo ratios. Never. Simply show an approval score, like +13 or -1, and do not reveal who voted and what, creating voter secrecy. Also, do not show who played and what, unless they leave a free form, verbal comment and/or a heart. Ingame ratings would still be publicly visible, but they would not contain any clues on whenever the level was good or bad, only simply what genre & difficulty it was. - Cool pages would be still as follows: relatively new levels, merited by good rankings from personnel with good track records (as below) - Hearts are still directly visible to other players, and should be publicly accessible either way (level->player, player->level). - Comments can not be disabled - but one should be able to ban someone from making public statements on one's profile, if he/she so explicitly desires. - Covert weighing. Not only your direct ratings, but also your behavior would affect the weigh of your rankings. If you, say, get a large amount of merited complaints against you from a large variety of different players (as mentioned on the chapter below), your rankings would also start to lose their weight. If your public statements are applauded by players, your weigh would rise, subtly ranking levels rated by you higher than if rated by a newer player. - Groups. Levels could be grouped with together, with effects in game; but the game could use the group as a guideline, to find out which sorts of levels you like (with stats like general color tone of the level, musics used, genre, etcetc); that could considerably quell the complaints about the bad quality of Cool Pages, which tries to cater for everybody at once. It is simply not going to work in the long run, with a very high variety of players. Group association would also affect your ranking; this could be expressed as a point in 3D coordinate system. If you rank something fairly far away from your point (reported genre on XY, game-measured on Z; with Z coordinates having less impact than XY), it wouldn't carry so much weight in the future (nor complaints would). So, if a well known player commented from "well-known" circles, it would be much harder to unleash an assault on him (and vis-a-versa). Local community would have the biggest weight, and visitors only so much less. TLDR: Everything affects everything, and everything is dependent on others --------------------------- This might not be the perfect solution.. but how does one solve the problem of bickering kids without removing all methods of communication however ? There will be these sorts of fights, no matter what.. so, we should try to mitigate the worst effects instead of giving up by removing boos .

2012-04-20 17:50:00 Author: OrwellianStuff Posts: 90

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I think a solution that would please most would be: (sorry for the english, I'm Brazilian) - Creating new tags for assessing the level as well, if the person is lazy to write on the keyboard of the PS3, it would have no reason to do not want just put the tags. And an option for type on keyboard, normally, how we are doing actually. - If the reason of this update by MM did not discourage breeders more sensitive (usually children), this person has to understand that these children will grow and the world is much worse than receiving a ''Boo'' in a video-game.. If the person is not a little kid, this person simply will not have any malice to survive on planet earth. There are many bad people in the world that will make her suffer at least once time in their lives, and as I said, there is a'' Boo'' won't be the worst thing in her life. I'm pretty sure that many people from about 10 to 13 years of age, say to your friends pro ''I am a failure. Never again will I create levels in LBP2'', but at least 90% of people said this, ALWAYS come back to create up because I've done it many times and have seen my friends do the same too, just to get attention (I'm not saying everybody does) - For people who select'' boo'' accidentally, it would be nice if when you selected, a window asking if'' Are you sure you want this evaluation at this level?'' Appear. For me, this solution to remove the'' boo'' is too extreme and does not leave everyone satisfied. The MM should look over the things you do, and what consequences it would cause...

2012-04-20 19:50:00 Author: cakito123 Posts: 353

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That's what I was thinking, having options like: -Poor design -Too difficult/impossible -Buggy -OMG DIS LVL SUKS -Offensive Something along those lines. Yes! If you have to boo something, instead of you writing out why, there should just be a preset list of options why to avoid any bad reviews or comments. Yet then there should still be an option to write a boo and a review if you truly want to write out in detail what made you rate the level with that boo.

2012-04-23 02:17:00 Author: Blackbeltnick95 Posts: 129

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Hearts to plays ratio is sooo last decade. But, in seriousness, that used to be the main way of guaging the quality or "popularity" of a level. Arguably likes to unique plays is slightly more useful as you get a higher proportion of likes than plays. Also, likes to unique plays is arguably better than likes to boos, on the basis that boos are noisy with people abusing them. So, try looking at the ratio of how many people have played the level vs how many people have enjoyed the level. It works. As a creator who spends 95 percent of his time in create mode, I find the boo/yay ratio just more effective for the shear fact that a boo is a very negative visual that pretty much is "tattooed" to your level unless changed by the rater. Isnt that a bad thing? This may be a weird analogy, but for me its sort of like playing a game where gameover is essentially impossible. I forgot what game did this, but although it took away the frustration of enduring a gameover and made me feel less inadequate about my horrid gaming skills, for some reason its just not as satisfying beating the game, because there is no element of..."opposition" that makes victory or getting to the next level satisfying. Now I am not going to raise an anarchy to get boos back, certainty MM can spend thier time improving other aspects of a game( and I am still waiting on the saving system *cough). Good points have been made that yes, ratings produce a more positive environment for the players and creators who grown"uninspired" because of boos, but this doesnt do anything more creators like myself who pretty much dwell on BOTH positive and negative feedback. I believe a "like" without feedback as to why the level was "liked" is just as useless as a boo with no reason why they disliked the level. (Sorta why I thought reviews should have ratings.) However, it was not really noticeable before the update because both of these elements were present. In this sense, it produced an nice and easy balance of both the positve and negetive extremes. But with the boo gone, it rules the "like" mechanic obsolete because there is not an opposition that can contrast the "potential" negetive experience of a player and ultimately elevate a level past being average, or below average. Personally, I feel the removal of boos was not a bad update but more a reflection of how immature our community--as a whole, really is. I think all user generated community should have a like/dislike system( of sorts), but maybe LBP just isnt ready for that yet. No level should receive a "boo" without justification of why it was disliked. I mean these aren't youtube videos, you are talking hours upon hours of work. At the same time, I feel deducting boos from the equation makes levels ratings just less fun to look at and harder for creators to interpret, which in a way ruins the experience slightly for me.

2012-04-24 15:37:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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You know what annoys me most? I was using the lovely LBP Level Logger (www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?64385-Some-statistics-and-graphs-of-your-LBP-levels...) to track my levels, and now the boos have shot down to zero, ruining my graphs

2012-04-24 17:23:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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