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Mm Picks starting to go downhill.

Archive: 184 posts

I know the LBP1 Mm picks weren't really started on the most amazing grounds (Love and Marriage was atrocious), but the LBP2 picks WERE. The very first Mm pick I played was Corridors of Madness, and it blew me away. It was the level that truly made me understand the potential of LBP2 to create and genre, and the potential of all those logic gadgets I had been scratching my head about, and for that, Corridors of Madness is one of my favorite LBP2 levels ever. I played through all of the Mm picks, and I hearted every one of them. They were all so brilliant. They were innovative, with gorgeous visuals, or spectacular platforming, or mind-blowing logical prowess. Every one thrilled me, chilled me, and sent shivers down my spine. It redefined the meaning of Mm picks from LBP1's "nice ideas" to LBP2's "Awesome, jaw-dropping, spectacular levels with tons of innovation to boot." I then hearted every single Mm pick that came my way since then, not because they were Mm picked, but because they were awesome. I'll never forget how my jaw detached from my head and hid behind the couch on my first play through of Frozen Flame. It wasn't just Frozen Flame, it was EVERYTHING! Even the Prius levels, which were just big ads, were superb.
Then came €lysian Fields. It was good, very good, but it was not jaw-droppingly awesome, so it wasn't Mm pick worthy. I thought this was just a very small misjudgment on Mm's part, or I was just being too opinionated. I still played the Mm picks, certain they were all going to be mind-blowing. Then the move levels came. I couldn't play them, since I don't have move, but I read the reviews...and they weren't good. Half on Concentration's reviews were specifically asking why it was Mm picked. From what I read, it was just a simple game of memory, and was simply picked because it had move. Beliefs a little shaken, but I still believed Mm picks were, for the most part, excellent (a belief reinforced by Feeding Frenzy, which was awesome). Halloween came along, and Mm picked FOUR levels (FIVE if you count Funky Bones 3), and while they were all very good, I think only 1 was Mm pick worthy. Sure these levels were fun and had nice visuals. but that was all. They weren't mind-blowing or jaw-droppingly excellent like most of the ones before them, they were just very good. Had Mm just picked these because they were Halloween themed? The only sensible answer I could think of was "Yes."
That kicked off a glut of "very good" levels in the Mm picks, mingling with their jaw-droppingly excellent super-fantastic awesome levels. For every Printz, which was spectacular, there was WIP, which was just "very good". There were much better 3D levels, such as Vikin 3D. Build Up, that move level a lot like Building Blocks, only took ONE DAY to make, and yet it still was picked! Creators can work months on levels and not get them picked, but this guy? Just ONE DAY. All these very good levels, which were very good, by the way, but not JAW-AWESOMELY DROPPING, started appearing in the Mm picks more and more frequently. I can see why they picked the 2nd Lil' Platformer, but to be honest, it was just very good. Emerald Embers was just very good. They weren't THAT innovative, or THAT fun. They seemed out of place next to, say, VECTOR STORM. Why was Mm lowering their standards? I don't think they would have picked these a year ago. A lot of levels on the Mm picks were pretty old when they got picked. Did they just discover them, or did they seem Pick worthy after Mm lowered it's standards. Maybe I'm being too opinionated again.
After more very good levels, I began to look at the Mm picks as more of like the Community Spotlight. They both pick a lot of levels, and they just have to be very good. However, while Mm was picking very good levels instead of just excellent ones, it stopped picking so many excellent ones! There are so many levels out there that are excellent, that deserve a pick, and Mm ignores them. There are far too many levels out there that deserve an Mm pick. Now, I know Mm picks what it likes. Mm, however couldn't be suddenly lowering its standards and becoming biased for and against some levels. I was losing more and more trust in the pink ribbon every day. I would just have to check the spotlights and recommendations more to find good levels.
Then somebody went out and picked Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms.
Mm, what were you thinking? This isn't just my opinion, this is EVERYBODY'S OPINION! This level SHOULD NOT BE MM PICKED. 95% of the level reviews take note of the fact that this level is not Mm pick worthy. Anybody, ANYBODY give me a good reason why this was Mm picked. It was buggy, it was ugly, it was rushed, and it hardly look like it took that much work to make. The intro had no scenery or background whatsoever, the tank looked like a child made it, you didn't even TRY to disguise the blocks or dark matter, the gameplay was far too simplistic, and the whole thing was something I would expect out of an 10 year old! Sure, the gameplay idea was nice, but THAT WAS ALL. It was pretty good, but just pretty good. Why did Mm pick this? They had to be biased! They most probably picked this because it was St. Patrick's Day themed. No, the creator was probably friends with Mm. Those are the only explanations. You know what? This isn't just bad, this is harmful! You know what this says? It says, "Hey, kids, you don't have to work and slave over your levels, trying to make them as excellent as can be to get Mm picked, all you have to do is publish a holiday themed level during the holidays, and no matter how bad it is, we'll pick it! Better yet, just be friends with Mm, and we'll automatically make you more famous than the creators who deserve the picks."
Well, Mm picks have lost all their magic. They've gone from Corridors of Madness to Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms. They've gone from jaw-droppingly excellent, amazing, logically stunning, visually eye-popping, and innovative to mediocre and lazy. I used play the new Mm picks knowing they'll all leave a loving imprint in my memory, as levels that defied belief with their sheer brilliance. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mm pick is Love and Marriage 2.


I miss the good old pre-war LBP days when we didn't have to dodge all these stupid bombs.

I miss the good old LBP2 days when the Mm picks actually deserved to be Mm picked.		2012-03-20 13:05:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

You have to be only person I've seen ever complain that MM Picks have been more frequent.

I haven't played Sackboys Quest For Lucky Charms, so I can't comment on that, but I guess I support your sentiments regarding holiday-themed picks. Standards should remain the same regardless of whether or not the level ties in with a holiday or new DLC.
However, as for the overall standard being lower, I dunno. I think maybe the bar has been lowered a little, but I'm all for that. The level required for Picks initially was insane.

You mentioned MMs friends being the only ones being picked, and the idea of raising the bar for Picks again in the same post. Seems a little conflicting to me. The reason we see the same names so frequently is because they're already established creators working with other established creators to achieve even greater results. (Most of the time. Even non-partnership projects usually involve a bit of help/advice from your buddies. C'mon, don't lie.)
Raising the bar would just mean Picks became even less common, with the same names appearing all the time. StevenI's doing a great job I feel picking things more frequently.
I think I support your sentiments to a certain extent. I'm all for keeping the bar high, just not so high that only one MM Pick gets added every year or so.		2012-03-20 13:20:00

Author:
Ostler5000
Posts: 1017

Anybody, ANYBODY give me a good reason why this was Mm picked.

Because Mm liked it... it's Mm picks... not super awesome level picks, personal opinions on quality are irrelevant, if you want quality look towards forum picks		2012-03-20 13:53:00

Author:
ForgottenEnigma
Posts: 1414

I may not necessarily agree with some of Stevenl's picks, but that doesn't matter. I don't think the MM picked levels HAVE to be the best of the best, rather they should be levels that you must play. Remember, they're just based on the opinion of 1 or 2 people..... it's not like they sit around in a big board room and discuss it for hours.2012-03-20 13:58:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Everyone has some very good points, but like it was mentioned...Mm picks are just that....Mm picks. Their opinion, not the community's. Now if you want to talk about a broken system....let's talk "cool pages"2012-03-20 14:31:00

Author:
sascha_winter
Posts: 163

Because Mm liked it... it's Mm picks... not super awesome level picks, personal opinions on quality are irrelevant, if you want quality look towards forum picks

Yup... this exactly. I've always put more stock into what shows up in the LBPC Community Spotlights and other fan sites picks.		2012-03-20 14:32:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

What if they just pull level names out of a hat? :O2012-03-20 14:33:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

What if they just pull level names out of a hat? :O

That would make my job soooo much easier...

On a more serious note though, there is no official quality scale for the MmPicks.
Obviously we do like to ensure that the levels are of a decent quality but above all, they must be fun to play.

We found Sackboy's Lucky Charms to be terribly addictive and very fitting for a St. Patrick's Day themed set of MmPicks, which is why it was chosen last week.

A good number of players do seem to be enjoying the level though, since the play and heart count of the level is currently the highest and 2nd highest of the recent selection of MmPicks respectively.
So whilst it may not be to everybody's taste, there's certainly a good number of people who are finding the level to be enjoyable.

The MmPicks have had quite a radical change recently and we're trying our best to feature new and talented creators every week!
As there are truly so many talented people out there that are still worthy of recognition and we would really like to give those awesome creators their chance to shine!
Which is why we now feature a good mixture of creators and level types every week!

So even if you don't agree with every single MmPick for the week...
Try coming back next Friday and we'll have a brand new batch of five MmPicks online and who knows?
You may even find one of your favourite creators featured! 		2012-03-20 15:12:00

Author:
StevenI
Community Manager
Posts: 420

Is it that time of the month already? you know. where someone makes a complain about MM picks topic?. 2012-03-20 15:14:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Is it that time of the month already? you know. where someone makes a complain about MM picks topic?.

Now, now. Be fair. This one is different.
MM Picks r 2 often! Fire StevenI hes 2 activ!!!

Before I only got to play a new MM Pick every 5 or 6 months, now I haven't got time to play all the new ones! Outrageous! I demand action! Fewer Picks!		2012-03-20 15:31:00

Author:
Ostler5000
Posts: 1017

Now, now. Be fair. This one is different.
MM Picks r 2 often! Fire StevenI hes 2 activ!!!

Before I only got to play a new MM Pick every 5 or 6 months, now I haven't got time to play all the new ones! Outrageous! I demand action! Fewer Picks!

Somehow, I think you may be a bit biased towards Stevenl. I wonder why? 		2012-03-20 16:19:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Somehow, I think you may be a bit biased towards Stevenl. I wonder why?

My attitude towards Picks hasn't changed. I just feel StevenI is doing a better job. We've had what, 9 Picks in a fortnight, excluding mine?
Am I excluded from being entitled to an opinion now?		2012-03-20 16:29:00

Author:
Ostler5000
Posts: 1017

I'm on both sides of the fence.

On one hand I do think more picks is a good thing, on the other hand I think there should be a quality standard.

Even if it is Mm's choice, they shouldn't just go and pick whatever level they want. They might start getting threads like these.		2012-03-20 16:41:00

Author:
comishguy67
Posts: 849

I think it's better that they pick levels more frequently. Because let's face it, the community isn't in the same state as 1 year ago when brilliantlly unique levels appeared daily. If they don't lower the requirements, you can count on MM picks becoming very, very rare as the months pass. The standards needed for a mindblowing level keep getting higher to a point no one can keep up.

They pick more levels, so what? You still get to play all of them, the MM Picks section doesn't feel abandoned and people don't need to be impossibly creative to get picked. Everybody wins.		2012-03-20 17:46:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

My attitude towards Picks hasn't changed. I just feel StevenI is doing a better job. We've had what, 9 Picks in a fortnight, excluding mine?
Am I excluded from being entitled to an opinion now?

I was only joking with you.		2012-03-20 18:36:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

We've had what, 9 Picks in a fortnight, excluding mine?

Five Picks a week for three weeks so far.
So a total of 15 new Picks. 		2012-03-20 18:54:00

Author:
StevenI
Community Manager
Posts: 420

Five Picks a week for three weeks so far.
So a total of 15 new Picks.

Yup. and i've enjoyed about half of them myself. thanks for giving us interesting levels to play~ *mew		2012-03-20 18:56:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Lol, MM picks doesnt always contain amazingly amazing levels, it's what the DEVELOPERS OF THE GAME ENJOYED, and things they found amazingly cool or awesome.
(Love and marraige was made to prepose to his girlfriend. I find that pretty flipping amazing if I do say so myself.)

Sorry if I'm repeating everyone else here, but yeah, it's "MM PICKS", not "MM picks the biggest levels out there that are amazingly cool 24/7".		2012-03-20 20:18:00

Author:
grayspence
Posts: 1990

Personally, I think the picking crew is doing a great job. Like others stated, they are called "Mm Picks" for a reason. They are the developer's and other crew mates' favorites, not the communities. Sure, they consider the community's opinions too, but they also have favorites. We show our favorites by hearting, they show it by hearting and picking.

Also, I wouldn't say they are going "downhill". Yes, many didn't like the "Lucky Charms" level, and TBH, it didn't exactly land in my favorites either. However, I still enjoyed it. The gameplay was original and very unique, and the mechanics worked smoothly. After reading your post, I guessed that you judge a level based on its looks and wow factor. A level doesn't have to rival the artistic quality of the Mona Lisa to be "excellent", and they don't have to revolutionize LBP either. If you become too used to that, you'll come to not enjoy LBP. You might peer down at the other levels, and become very picky. They may not look the best or be absolutely, amazingly, jaw-dropping, but they are fun and unique.

Say you live in a palace, and all you eat is the most quality of foods. You've been living here for almost your whole life, and know nothing but the royal stuff. Some guy asks you to go into the village for a day, which is only inhabited by peasants and middle-class individuals. When you eat the food there, it's not as good, is it? To them it's delicious, but it isn't luxury. They also work very hard for their food, and they feel they deserve it. To you, it looks like slop. Now, I'm not saying that the Mm Picks are made by princesses and princes, the people playing them are rich, and the rest of the community are peasants, it's only an analogy or whatever you call it.

Plus, this should make people happy. This actually may show that Mm ISN'T biased. They've chosen a level that may not be extraordinarily amazing on the outside, but is fun, simple, and special at heart. If they were to choose impossibly good masterpieces all the time, wouldn't you become discouraged? You may think that you could never compare to that kind of skill, and that your levels may never get a chance. They'll give anyone a chance, as long as they like it. It's like giving "pretty" people more privileges than the people they find "ugly". (No, I'm not calling anyone ugly) It's the quality part, not the sugar coated part, that counts.

And don't use that "he's got the 'Touching Royalty' Pin!" excuse. No, people who have "Touching Royalty" aren't kiss-ups that just want easy picks. Apparently, the "Lucky Charms" level has been out for a year or so. Only now was it picked. So Mm probably wasn't being biased. I find it sad that so many people are calling them "crazy", "drunk", or "high" for picking it. Give both the creator and Mm a break.		2012-03-20 20:20:00

Author:
Sackpapoi
Posts: 1195

I think other way, since StevenI taken control of them it's much better lot of people complained that rarely new mmpicks showing up because Spaff was too busy, now we got somebody that knows community from inside and should have bette look on whats happens in community.

Also MMPick never been sign of quality, MMPicks are levels that MM likes and they don't need to like just because quality, for example "Street Fighter II" is not qulity level but it's hell lot of fun, try it qith your friends and you wont be able to stop laughing from odd postions you make ;p thru on other hand StevenI is still spiritually member of community so it's not complitly MM but i bet some Molecules might give him hints ;] I remember hearing voices to give MMPicks to community, so i guess they should be happy now		2012-03-20 21:47:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I don't think that most of you people understand the gravity of the situation. Allow me to make a point clear.
You have to understand that a level that is Mm picked will get a boatload of plays (provided it isn't move-based). Now, what does almost every single sack in LBP and LBP2 want? Plays. It's a force that's a lot more powerful than you might think. It's what motivated people like Latin_Player10 and Stephanie_Ravens to behave so immorally. Well, early in LBP2, the Mm picks with their...uh...expectations (I'm not going to say standard, but people assumed your level had to be excellent) made it so that people were motivated to work really hard to fine tune their levels until they reach near perfection. This was reinforced in the early year of LBP2, with all the Mm picks being excellent, or above very good. I already know that Mm picked what Mm likes, but I didn't know Mm would be so...opinionated until now. See, when the levels Mm picked were excellent, sacks naturally assumed that their level had to be excellent to be picked. However, with the Mm picks in the state they are now, all you need is luck. Sure, Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was fun, but really. Did it look like it took that much work? The Mm picks are becoming more erratic.
A lot of people are saying, "You care to much about how it looks, the logic, your standards are too high," and that "you should judge more on how fun it was." Here's the problem. Copied levels are fun. Bomb survivals are fun. Mortal Kombat levels are fun. Yet, they are horrible. Why? The creator put no work into them. The amount of work it takes to copy and publish a level is close to zero joules. Now, Mm will not pick copied levels (probably), but the comparism is clear. You can make a level lazily and still have it be fun. It's the blood, sweat, tears, and genius of the higher creators that makes a masterpiece. Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms is no masterpiece. It's fun, but that's about it. Really, you can say that drinking monsters drinks out of a copied monster vending machine is fun. You could say that trying on copied costumes is fun. Heck, you could say that zipping around after a Sonic soda is fun. It's unethical, but fun. However, do any of these levels deserve to be on the cool pages? No!
It's a little hypocritical, how you all are calling for more quality for the cool pages, yet are okay with Mm picks declining in quality from being masterpieces to being mediocre or very good (there is still excellence in there). I see the reason. You all feel that cheap levels should not be getting plays. Well, while Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms is much better than copied levels, it seems so out of place among lots of levels that are spectacular, and yet it's getting the same amount, if not more, plays. Only the true levels- that took months to make, that the creator slaved over, where you can fell the amazing amount of detail, work, and toil in every inch-deserve the many plays that come with an Mm pick. Well, Mm has acknowledged these levels less and less. The number of quality levels hasn't decreased (the community spotlights aren't dwindling), the quality of the Mm picks has decreased, to the point of where work does not matter, where you can be lazy and still get tons of plays. As I've said before, this stops motivating people to make quality levels, and motivates more people just to send Mm emails saying "I want to visit you" or "friend me" in the hope that their ties with Mm will get them a pick, or simply publish gluts of holiday themed levels during holidays, since these are obviously bigger factors in getting a level Mm picked.
Look at it this way. When LBP2's age is long gone, when you remember fondly upon it, which levels will you remember the most fondly? Will you say, "Oh yeah, Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms! That was the epitome of what made LBP2 great!" No. You'll say a level like Sealed Fate or Corridors of Madness, or even a brilliant level which was not Mm picked.
I know that Mm has their own favorites, just like us. However, with so much power to make or break levels and creators, I think they should start thinking more in terms of work and genius than in terms of personal enjoyment. Mm picks are the most popular level showcase, even with the community spotlights in the news, and the Mm picked creator will have plays, hearts, and recognition like they couldn't believe. With great power comes great responsibility, StevenI, and I don't want to make your job any harder than it already is. Still, try to be a bit more discerning. Which really deserves an Mm pick more: the level which took months to make, which the creator put his/her heart and soul into to make something magnificent, or the level which you personally liked? Which?		2012-03-20 22:50:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

What I am trying to say, for those who are too lazy to read the wall of text above, is that Mm picks have far too much power and influence to just be picked by one guy. With Mm picks being able to make creators famous or lack of said picks being able to make a great level wallow in obscurity, it's a little crushing to have them being chose by one guy who picks what he personally likes.
It's like a person being able to choose which movies get to be box office hits and which get to be flops, and picking some mediocre movie (like the Lorax) to be a hit and and leaving masterful movies in the dust.		2012-03-20 23:02:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

It's a little hypocritical, how you all are calling for more quality for the cool pages, yet are okay with Mm picks declining in quality from being masterpieces to being mediocre or very good (there is still excellence in there).


Why is it hypocritical...? nowhere does it say that Mm picks need to present quality, they only need to be liked by the developer: (In your own wording)


[...] to have them being chose by one guy who picks what he personally likes.

If Mm want to award a player for astounding quality, they have access to an array of nifty pins... not forgetting the much desired crown.

...but the wording of 'cool levels' implies they have met a certain standard and are therfore dubbed 'cool'. More to the point, why should only the super talented/famous be entitiled to a Mm pick... we are a community where everyone should be treated equally and giving lower quality levels picks provides many creators with hope. I think people are spot on with this observation of cool levels and Mm picks (and thats not even including the currently superior forum picks)		2012-03-20 23:09:00

Author:
ForgottenEnigma
Posts: 1414

What I am trying to say, for those who are too lazy to read the wall of text above, is that Mm picks have far too much power and influence to just be picked by one guy. With Mm picks being able to make creators famous or lack of said picks being able to make a great level wallow in obscurity, it's a little crushing to have them being chose by one guy who picks what he personally likes.
It's like a person being able to choose which movies get to be box office hits and which get to be flops, and picking some mediocre movie (like the Lorax) to be a hit and and leaving masterful movies in the dust.

Read reviews of that level after being picked and rethink 1/3 retio like in LBP standards is not quite good, in the end you are the one who decide what is hit or not, if level is really bad people won't remeber it or remeber it bad, so i dont see how picks are influential and give some 5 minutes of flash for that creator, there ton of other crap that have better stats then this level		2012-03-21 00:06:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

What I am trying to say, for those who are too lazy to read the wall of text above, is that Mm picks have far too much power and influence to just be picked by one guy. With Mm picks being able to make creators famous or lack of said picks being able to make a great level wallow in obscurity, it's a little crushing to have them being chose by one guy who picks what he personally likes.
It's like a person being able to choose which movies get to be box office hits and which get to be flops, and picking some mediocre movie (like the Lorax) to be a hit and and leaving masterful movies in the dust.

I do understand how you feel, for a long time LBP has struggled with how to promote good levels.

If fact, I remember in my early days thinking that it would be nice if the LBPC spotlight would get more recognition. I remember thinking how it would be great if somehow it could be supported in game. To me it was the best system there was for reliably picking the quality levels that exist in the community.

Now these have been supported by MM, along with other fan site's picks. However, not even these are perfect, because "perfect" means something different to everyone. To me the community support from the developers is absolutely going in the right direction. With the increased MM picks, plus the community site recognition, every player who puts heart into a level has a better chance of getting his work out there and recognized by a larger number of players.

On another note: number of plays has absolutely nothing to do with quality. The cool pages/MM picks/high traffic pages all get their high number of plays from the casual player who is looking for the quickest way to new content. Those who actually do care about the quality levels will find the quality levels and know them for what they are.		2012-03-21 00:09:00

Author:
Lockstitch
Posts: 415

Wall of text, complaints, Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms, blah blah blah.

You do not describe what makes a good level. Spent time? I got over 9 months into my project so all you picked creators better start handing over your ribbons (/sarcasm).

Level got picked because it uses Move and Move pack just got out? It's called innovation; there aren't many Move levels to speak of, still. And not being able to play them because you don't have Move is equal to saying a movie is bad because you are too poor to pay for a theater ticket.


There are so many levels out there that are excellent, that deserve a pick, and Mm ignores them. There are far too many levels out there that deserve an Mm pick.

You claim MM ignores "deserving" creators because some picks are not your flavor. Go ahead, go one step further and call for bias and conspiracy. Do it.


Why did Mm pick this? They had to be biased!

And from LBP.me, your review of Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms (http://lbp.me/v/y5ghjv/reviews):


I didn't think Mm picks were biased when I first got LBP2, but now I think they are.

Big boy. I knew you could do it.


95% of the level reviews take note of the fact that this level is not Mm pick worthy.

It is not up to you or any one of those tw*ts to decide what is worth an MM Pick. You have no understanding of what it even is.

I have seen the vile reviews on that level, including yours (that one particulary stuck out because of the bias allegation). The creator didn't ask to be picked and honestly I am thinking of dropping Stepheni a note that I rather refuse if he ever considers any of my projects for an MM Pick. Not because of what MM Picks encompasses but because of your kind of people that come down onto creators uninvited like a swarm of wasps.

MM Picks are not the pinnacle of level design. They are not the ultimate accolade and recognition of your talents. They are the favorites of one or more people who are affiliated with Media Molecule who think that'd be great if other people would play a particular level, for various reasons of which one might be that it looks nice. MM Picked levels are great levels. They are not the best levels. What makes a level "the best level" is a subjective, constantly changing idea, a bar that is put higher and higher, impossible to meet for all but a few top talents; after which the usual conspiracies are recycled again that MM Picks are biased towards those creators.

It is better, much better, to have MM Picks that occur regulary, consider not just the latest levels but look back as well, and uphold a certain average quality, a mix of various genres and ideas, different qualities, but all worth a look.

I find it sickening, disheartening and extremely demotivating how you people treat others over this. And I am not alone in that opinion.

If you cannot get the nature of MM Picks through your thick skull and find it reason enough to insult a picked creator, further damaging the already trollish rep that this community has, scaring this creator and many others away from ever seeking the limelight for fears of getting shamed, and giving no constructive feedback whatsoever, then in all honestly do yourself and the community a favor and quit playing LBP.


Well, Mm picks have lost all their magic.

Good. Now get the hell out of this game. You don't belong here.		2012-03-21 12:10:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

*Reverts back to school playground mentality*

FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!!

2012-03-21 12:22:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

@Steveni

Your patient and friendly response to this every so often returning onslaught of judgemental hatred, compared to my heated response... That is why you are community manager and I am not. 		2012-03-21 12:31:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

Owned.


*Reverts back to school playground mentality*

FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!! FIGHT!!



Why are you yelling that? The fight's already over. Somebody get a spatula to scrape Kalawishis's remains off the floor 		2012-03-21 12:36:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

****ed if they do, ****ed if they don't.

Its a no win situation. Why they bother is beyond me.		2012-03-21 12:43:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754

What I am trying to say is that Mm picks have far too much power and influence to just be picked by one guy. With Mm picks being able to make creators famous or lack of said picks being able to make a great level wallow in obscurity, it's a little crushing to have them being chose by one guy who picks what he personally likes.

You refuse to take responsibility for your own hateful, reprehensible behavior; namely, it is you and your ilk who are the powers that crush creators with vile comments and self-entitled outrage, crush the creativity and motivation of creators in the bud who read your diatribe.

Be happy that there is no single guy who decides who gets barred from PSN because I'd apply for that position to get your *ss banned.		2012-03-21 13:05:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

I'm pretty sure that the only way that threads like this are going to end is when StevenI personally plays and Mm picks every single person's level. All 6 million of them. So, Steven, what are you waiting for? Get on that. 2012-03-21 13:36:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Antikris, I think there is something that you are missing. What you have to see here is that I don't want to implement the changes I want to please all you forumites, I want to please the general masses of LBP2. Here is RoDRiGo-FiLiPiNo's review of Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms. It is the highest rated review, and you probably didn't bother to read it because you were to busy searching for mine. Is says:
I'm not trying to be rude but most people in LBP have a standard of what is Mm pick worthy. I'm aware that the games picked are games that Mm personally likes (St.Patrick's day relevance)... But every talented creator deserves a chance to thrive. A "Sackfolk's Picks" should be implemented so that we all can discover the great hidden gems out there in the community... If we do that, creators that exerted their best effort will get a fair chance, because EVERYONE deserves it. Rate up if you agree! Nice level!
The first part of this is especially important. I never said that Mm had a quality standard for picks, but I did say that people had expectations for what made a pick. While they varied, they were almost always higher than this.
The third part of the review "... But every talented creator deserves a chance to thrive" illustrates another point I have about the harmfulness of the lack of quality about Mm pick. You may have convinced the forums that I am wrong, but you'll never convince the masses that I am not. You say Mm picks like these will help budding creators. Well, look, have they helped him? All these hate comments? No! Yes, I was part of that, but it was the heat of the moment, and nobody's perfect. If Mm keeps mixing very good levels with excellent ones with mediocre ones, all the mediocre ones will get hated on unnecessarily! It would be the WORST thing for a budding creator to get Mm picked, because his level will get so much hate from people who think their is a quality standard, and the level is biased! You can't convince anybody outside of the forums away from this mentality. You can rage and yell and scream and spit all you want, but people will just plow through you. You can't make any levels to teach them otherwise; think of how successful the save LBP2 levels have been. The only good thing to do is for Mm stop picking the levels of budding creators, and focus on excellent ones. The budding creators' levels will get showed in some level showcase somewhere, and will get a fair amount of plays (hopefully), with positive, not negative feedback, which will motivate the creator to make something Mm pick worthy. This system is right. If Mm keeps things like this, is would be horrible for the budding creators.		2012-03-21 13:46:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

after having raged for a year and a half about this stuff...
when I read this kind of threads just out of curiosity, the only thing I woul like to do is facepalming 90% of the people tha post here because very few are objective and sensed (the ones that are wise enough to joke about it) and all brag like kids.
grow the hell up.		2012-03-21 14:00:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Ok...
instead of just complaining... give us links to 5 levels you would MMpick if it was up to you.		2012-03-21 14:05:00

Author:
leklack
Posts: 26

You refuse to take responsibility for your own hateful, reprehensible behavior; namely, it is you and your ilk who are the powers that crush creators with vile comments and self-entitled outrage, crush the creativity and motivation of creators in the bud who read your diatribe.

Be happy that there is no single guy who decides who gets barred from PSN because I'd apply for that position to get your *ss banned.

I read all of Kalawishis' opinions and am still trying to figure out where the vile comments are? I do however, see the vileness in your comments.

Big boy. I knew you could do it.

It is not up to you or any one of those tw*ts to decide what is worth an MM Pick. You have no understanding of what it even is.

If you cannot get the nature of MM Picks through your thick skull

Good. Now get the hell out of this game. You don't belong here.

I'd apply for that position to get your *ss banned.

Really? Ban someone for their opinions? Then, you were so proud of these statements that you tweeted the link to your last post, which brought me to this thread. I admire and respect you Antikris, but I find these statements a little harsh, well actually, I find them downright hateful and rude and would not be so proud of them if I were you.

@LEK

instead of just complaining... give us links to 5 levels you would MMpick if it was up to you.
http://lbp.me/v/zqv8mj
http://lbp.me/v/5tvx84
http://lbp.me/v/ef-b0n
http://lbp.me/v/vv2xrj awesome LBP1 level
http://lbp.me/v/yvmz8s
http://lbp.me/v/77nw59
http://lbp.me/v/3r-x-k
http://lbp.me/v/1efzjg
http://lbp.me/v/w443p2
http://lbp.me/v/yrt7tp

just thought I'd throw my own "if I were Picking" in there Man, I need to replay these, they're all awesome!		2012-03-21 14:14:00

Author:
biorogue
Posts: 8424

I read all of Kalawishis' opinions and am still trying to figure out where the vile comments are?

Read his and his kind's 'well thought out' reviews at http://lbp.me/v/y5ghjv/reviews


Really? Ban someone for their opinions?

No, ban someone for making low, condensending comments that were totally unasked for as well as baseless accusations. This is a disease that is infecting this community and I am growing tired of it, because it is pushing good people away.


I find them downright hateful and rude and would not be so proud of them if I were you.

'Pride' is something most people in this community should have a little less of.		2012-03-21 14:50:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

I read all of Kalawishis' opinions and am still trying to figure out where the vile comments are? I do however, see the vileness in your comments.
Really? Ban someone for their opinions? Then, you were so proud of these statements that you tweeted the link to your last post, which brought me to this thread. I admire and respect you Antikris, but I find these statements a little harsh, well actually, I find them downright hateful and rude and would not be so proud of them if I were you.



Biorogue overtook me. I will not repeat his words, I agree with all.

One fact needs to understand - whatever anyone here in LBPC thinks of meaning of the MM pick selection, LBP community seen it as a choice of game makers, with which they say what is the best of the bests, what is the peak of creativity in this game and what to strive for. This implies the great responsibility for the selector, because each choice has multiple effects on the LBP community.		2012-03-21 14:54:00

Author:
goranilic
Posts: 332

If Mm keeps mixing very good levels with excellent ones with mediocre ones, all the mediocre ones will get hated on unnecessarily! It would be the WORST thing for a budding creator to get Mm picked, because his level will get so much hate from people who think their is a quality standard, and the level is biased! You can't convince anybody outside of the forums away from this mentality. You can rage and yell and scream and spit all you want, but people will just plow through you. You can't make any levels to teach them otherwise; think of how successful the save LBP2 levels have been. The only good thing to do is for Mm stop picking the levels of budding creators, and focus on excellent ones.

You prove my point exactly. You refuse to take responsibility for hateful comments and defend and excuse your kind. You place the burden on Media Molecule and claim it is their responsibility that budding creators do not get hated on. At the same time you and your kind claim that unknown creators do not get a chance to an MM Pick.

What Grant said: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.



LBP community seen it as a choice of game makers, with which they say what is the best of the bests, what is the peak of creativity in this game and what to strive for.

Then I do not want to be MM Picked.		2012-03-21 14:55:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

http://lbp.me/v/zqv8mj
http://lbp.me/v/5tvx84
http://lbp.me/v/ef-b0n
http://lbp.me/v/vv2xrj awesome LBP1 level
http://lbp.me/v/yvmz8s
http://lbp.me/v/77nw59
http://lbp.me/v/3r-x-k
http://lbp.me/v/1efzjg
http://lbp.me/v/w443p2
http://lbp.me/v/yrt7tp

just thought I'd throw my own "if I were Picking" in there Man, I need to replay these, they're all awesome!

That MrMik68 is a great creator, played a lot of his levels in the past week (and hearted him), but there are 2 things that may go against him:

1) Difficulty - his levels are very tough, the more immature members of the community don't appreciate tough games.
2) Presentation - definitely not his strong suit, at least he admits to it though.		2012-03-21 15:01:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

MM picks are not perfect, neither are Spotlights or Contests.
Nothing is ever perfect.
We JUST try our best.
Just understand that people kindly take time to play your level and promote it if it's good stuff.
And be objective to understand and value the quality of what you create/play.

And avoid witty comments here or in game because they sure don't help the Community to mature.
Even if people has different opinions, it's never a good reason to insult others.		2012-03-21 15:08:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

I think, for the most, while being skeptical about the quality of the next wave of levels that will make it in the MM picked list, the promotion of "Quest for Lucky Charms" kinda help us keep our hopes high for our mediocre levels that will become one day MM picked too.2012-03-21 15:08:00

Author:
zupaton
Posts: 167

People need to check out the ratings of Sackboy's quest for Lucky Charms (http://lbp.me/v/y5ghjv). 1 in every 4 yaays are a boo, compared to most Mm picks or even the cool pages that's not good, hell it doesn't have a good heart ratio to back it up either. You can see clearly by reading the reviews of the level that people are either disappointed and/or frustrated.

Personally more picks the better and especially now that picks have consistency, than before where it was completely random. But imho, it's just too late, the greater community seem to avoid playing picks, they simply don't generate enough plays compared to the cool pages.

Also I disagree with the whole notion of, "it's what Mm "likes"...' That's just a old excuse from the pre-Mm pick list days. Mm should be thinking community, you know the community that pays for their food, salary, home, holidays but weren't picks originally intended for that, for the community? Everyone who has ever brought the game can access the list in mere seconds so why does Mm get more exposure in what they say over everyone, decorating levels with pretty rare pink ribbons as they please? Picks are displayed on an exclusive list with those rare ribbons, the highest award a level can achieve (1 in 30,000) and that has no significant? You would think it would have to do something **** impressive to beat 30,000 levels. So of course people expect something.

But really, the focus of picks should not be truly a Mm likes thing, if that's truly the case then I see no problem why they shouldn't go back to the pre-Mm pick list days where quality didn't matter because not many people saw it or it's significant because no one likes what they pick in the first place. I'd like to note that I don't think in any of the old threads complaining about Mm picks anybody was saying "We need to know more levels that Mm like!" were there?		2012-03-21 15:30:00

Author:
PPp_Killer
Posts: 449

People need to check out the ratings of Sackboy's quest for Lucky Charms (http://lbp.me/v/y5ghjv). 1 in every 4 yaays are a boo, compared to most Mm picks or even the cool pages that's not good, hell it doesn't have a good heart ratio to back it up either. You can see clearly by reading the reviews of the level that people are either disappointed and/or frustrated.


Do you not think this could be down to the fact that a lot of people think this level is not MM pick worthy so they boo it, rather than them thinking it's a bad level? EDIT: Also, remember there's a lot of idiots on LBP. A lot of them could be hating on it because they see others hating on it.

A lot of fuss is being made over nothing IMO. There's quite a few MM picks that I don't think deserve to be there, a lot of them from a while ago.
It's the same with movies. Some movies that everyone loves, do absolutely nothing for me. No need to kick up a fuss everytime.		2012-03-21 15:57:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Ugh.... this thread just gave me a headache....

My takeaway point from this is - Kalawishis has a point. Yes, MM picks are only picks that MM likes.... but considering the exposure the levels get in the game interface, should there be a bit more to it? Good point, maybe Stevenl can glean something from it for future MM picks.

I also get the point from others.... we shouldn't be slamming a level just BECAUSE it got an MM pick. I got psn messages and reviews on Vectroids when it got MM picked that were hurtful. It doesn't feel good when you work on something that you think is good and others start telling you it isn't "worthy". That just goes under being considerate of others' feelings.

Anyhoo... I'm not getting into it any more than that. There are a few lessons that can be learned all around without going over the line. Chow.		2012-03-21 16:10:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Ugh.... this thread just gave me a headache....

My takeaway point from this is - Kalawishis has a point. Yes, MM picks are only picks that MM likes.... but considering the exposure the levels get in the game interface, should there be a bit more to it? Good point, maybe Stevenl can glean something from it for future MM picks.

I also get the point from others.... we shouldn't be slamming a level just BECAUSE it got an MM pick. I got psn messages and reviews on Vectroids when it got MM picked that were hurtful. It doesn't feel good when you work on something that you think is good and others start telling you it isn't "worthy". That just goes under being considerate of others' feelings.

Anyhoo... I'm not getting into it any more than that. There are a few lessons that can be learned all around without going over the line. Chow.

Thats sad to know, that people were going out of their way to PSN msg you. I don't think some people understand the amount of work that goes into making a decent level. Even my first level, which is quite crap really, took me over a month to create.		2012-03-21 16:32:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Good point, maybe Stevenl can glean something from it for future MM picks.

I'm collecting feedback and recommendations for MmPicks all the time!

The main thing to remember is that even if you don't like a particular level from the MmPicks on any given week, then it will only be a week before the next release of five MmPicks and maybe you'll find something a bit more appealing there!

Slowly but surely I'm putting together a solid schedule of weekly MmPicks, which is ever-changing due to the nature of new levels being released all the time but give it some time and you should hopefully see even more stand out creators getting the recognition that they have long-deserved! 		2012-03-21 16:47:00

Author:
StevenI
Community Manager
Posts: 420

Solving the poblem could be easy. We need one more page called for example PLAY WORTHY (or Cool Page :-DDD). MM would put/pick all at least a little interesting levels ( there are tons of them including C spotlights etc.), while MM picks would stay as they are ( for those jawdropping creations, or personal MM opinions/reasons). And current cool page would become LUCKY DIP (or it can be rename to DUMP PAGE or something like that :-DDD).2012-03-21 16:49:00

Author:
Unexpecter
Posts: 137

Guys. I think someone on another thread said it best, MM Picks are NOT some list of levels that defy all LBP knowledge or something like that, it's only a way to say "Hey, this level is fun and deserves more plays." Just like LBPC spotlight. And it's true, even if I thought Lucky charms was a bit sloppy and could use improvement, I still had a good time playing it. So instead of complaining about Quality control, we should instead be thankful that our wonderful new CC StevenI is giving us fun to play levels each week. Some weeks we may get the next MERD, while others we may have a simple game of Tetris. The point isn't how advanced it is, nor how long it took the Author to make it, the point is whether it's fun.

Oh, and Kala. We do have a "Sackfolk picks". It's called the Cool Pages. And you can see how well thats going. 		2012-03-21 17:55:00

Author:
TradeMarkSG
Posts: 65

Solving the poblem could be easy. We need one more page called for example PLAY WORTHY (or Cool Page :-DDD). MM would put/pick all at least a little interesting levels ( there are tons of them including C spotlights etc.), while MM picks would stay as they are ( for those jawdropping creations, or personal MM opinions/reasons). And current cool page would become LUCKY DIP (or it can be rename to DUMP PAGE or something like that :-DDD).

Ye but it would be need some more work power for that, also if they pick too fast that list won't have much effect, thats main reason why Cool Pages are automatic and works this way not another		2012-03-21 18:08:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I've said this before in another thread, and I need to say it again: There's simply no point in arguing about opinions, because everyone's personal taste is their own - and therefore neither right or wrong, just individual.
If you want to play levels you're going to enjoy, follow the recommendations of people you agree with - friends, hearted creators; who ever. If you don't like a lot of the MM picked levels, that's just a difference in personal taste. Don't let it boil your blood.
Some people have said that my levels should be MM picked - and I would be over the moon with excitement if that happened, even though I don't agree with all the MM picks either.
I do see the points made about how much publicity MM picks get, and personally, I would prefer to have an imperfect system than to abandon MM picks all together. Those are really the only two options, accept imperfection or give up on the game - because perfection doesn't exist and you can't make everyone happy.

Since we're on the topic, here's a level I think is worthy: http://lbp.me/v/0t6p50		2012-03-21 20:29:00

Author:
Pookachoo
Posts: 838

Honestly guys, after reading this I agree with Cubbage. This really gives me a headache.

It seems like the desire to complain, jump on the hate bandwagon, be negative to get a reaction, or jealousy for whatever reason continues to thrive unfortunately.

MM was criticized for not giving the community picks often enough. Now they are criticized FOR their picks. Which they could discountinue if they wanted to. It's not our RIGHT to get them.

Everyone has different tastes and the levels picked where picked for a reason. We don't have to "approve" of them.
If you don't like what's picked, don't play it again.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is our community- LBPC - should try to rise above this type behavior and try to be positive role models for the LBP community.

The best way, imo, to get better creators is through encouragement and support. Being hateful only produces resentment and retaliatory behaviour.

I remember way back when, there was a new creator who by his own definition was terrible. He got positive constructive criticism, worked hard and now is very popular. I hate to think what might have happened to this great talent had he run into so much negative input.		2012-03-21 20:32:00

Author:
Lady_Luck__777
Posts: 3458

I have to agree with Lady_Luck and CCubbage. ...well and a few others, but not going to list them all here. I don't think I need the brownie points.

We should support each other and not always get out the pitchforks to chase the monster. The OP had something to say that many would disagree with. Fine.. We can disagree, but at the same time we don't have to run him off nor be nasty to him. He is still a person and a member here.

I mostly feel sorry for the creator of this level. I doubt they asked for an Mm pick or maybe they wished for one, but wow.. as soon as they did... BOOM!! I am betting they are rethinking that now! I am truly embarrassed at many of the comments I read on his level. What kind of childish behavior is that? ..or even yelling at StevenI for picking some stuff where Spaff never really had time to?

These are real people guys and if they make a pick that you dislike, then fine!! It wouldn't make YOUR pick list. You don't have to heart it or give it a smiley face. You could give some constructive feedback to help them improve. ... but saying "This sucks" and other comments even nastier? Yikes... why did the creator deserve that? Grow up and be nicer to each other!

Just a double edge sword really.. as Grant said.. danged if you don't... nuked if you do. Wow..

I think that is why I have been saying maybe this Mm pick thing should just go away. I have always been more impressed by the work the communities do at picking great levels. There is still some argument here or there of maybe what should have or what shouldn't have, but nothing like this. I think many would agree that Mm picks as wonderful as many of them are, there are others not picked that are just as good or even better.. and most if not all, at least from here on LBPC, have been Spotlighted. Better yet.. all that are posted in the Level Showcase are at least considered. There is no way in heck that could be done in the entire community!!

At any rate.. an Mm pick, community pick, or a personal pick is still a pick... they are all subjective. For some wacky reason, some of those picks seem to carry more weight than others. Why? Not like there is any money involved. Nobody is winning the lottery on a pick. Some folks are just better creators than others, but that is why we are here to help them get better and find their niche. Not blast them off the planet and not to make fun of them.

Now back to my power nap. 		2012-03-21 21:00:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

i want to point out, for 1 ugly (in some people opinions ;p) picks we got 10 better so there no point for panic and wasting time writing big wall of text over one level2012-03-21 21:39:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

i want to point out, for 1 ugly (in some people opinions ;p) picks we got 10 better so there no point for panic and wasting time writing big wall of text over one level

..but I like to type. 		2012-03-21 21:47:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

I haven't played many MM picks lately, because they look like they're getting more and more "mature." I guess I like shorter levels that are more "fun," it kinda makes me think "why so serious?" It's a kids game! Don't make an hour long film about a dancer.2012-03-21 22:04:00

Author:
Unknown User

Wow, some people really got worked up this time in this topic. i'm a bit surprised myself. but like my first post here showed maybe after seeing so many of these types of topics they don't really effect me anymore emotionally... because at the end of the day every one of them pretty much end in the exact same ways. and knowing there will most likely be another one of these topics next month and the month after that by someone else... >.> ...I just can't take this stuff seriously anymore much. but i'm also very easy going type of person most of the time. just like what you wanna like. and ignore what you dislike. *mew2012-03-21 23:09:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Meh, I think people are getting too worked up over a title. If all of the current MM picks were just "normal" levels instead of being a MM pick, these topics would never happen.

Comments on a really good level:
-Wow this is really good! I like this!
-I really enjoyed this, cant wait to see more
-U r teh awesomesauce!

Comments on the same level AFTER it gets a MM Pick:
-Why is this level a MM pick? Its not that great...
-You got a MM pick for this? Come on... really?
-This level sucks

I don't think there is anything wrong with MM picks, I just think people get too worked up over them, which makes it seem like a problem, when in reality its really not.		2012-03-21 23:50:00

Author:
DreJ1212
Posts: 240

I just feel bad for Peice-O-rutt now. His own MM pick, usually something that displays a large amount of creativity and encouragement, has netted him so much hatred that any new level he releases will probably be infected by the jerks of LBP and downrated before it can ever get a reasonable chance in the limelight. Why can't people just show some respect and accept the fact that someone with a level they didint like got more plays and recognition than theirs did. It happens all the time, flaming and complaining isnt going to help.2012-03-22 00:08:00

Author:
grayspence
Posts: 1990

Nothing has changed.

When there were less MM Picks, there were always hits and misses. Some felt completely deserved, and others were head scratchers, however, that was/is graded against my personal tastes.

Nothing has changed except now there are more hits and more misses, again, based on my personal tastes.

But if I can see more creators getting deserved recognition, I'm willing to except those that might find me shrugging my shoulders and moving on.		2012-03-22 02:04:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

Cool levels, not Mm Picks, are what I see is going downhill.

I see your complaints on the newest Mm Picks, but the cool levels are now trash, such as bomb survivals, shark survivals, racing, and any level that has H4H in the title and description. And now I see that Mm Picks are now including "non-Mm Picks"? I'm starting to think that newer levels are really getting worse month after month.		2012-03-22 02:36:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

Having played that level with the Leprechauns, I think it's pretty obvious that the creator is very young. If an older creator had made that then yeah, I would suspect that Stevenl had lost his marbles picking something so rough around the edges, but bearing in mind that the kid was most likely only of a single digit age group then the level is clearly of a much higher standard than would normally be expected of someone so young. Mm picks should showcase the talents of the community as a whole, which includes the little kids too, so on those grounds I entirely support Stevenl's decision to pick it.2012-03-22 02:40:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

Having played that level with the Leprechauns, I think it's pretty obvious that the creator is very young. If an older creator had made that then yeah, I would suspect that Stevenl had lost his marbles picking something so rough around the edges, but bearing in mind that the kid was most likely only of a single digit age group then the level is clearly of a much higher standard than would normally be expected of someone so young. Mm picks should showcase the talents of the community as a whole, which includes the little kids too, so on those grounds I entirely support Stevenl's decision to pick it.

Try 31 (according to profle). Now I feel bad for Piece-o-Rutt; what kid is going to choose than PSN Ungreth?!?

Someone should make a level where you have to help Stevenl find his marbles, it would probably get picked.

Seriously though, I like the new weekly MmPicks, should be good for the community and the frequency should help people understand that these are just fun/interesting levels that you might want to check out, not the pinacle of creation. If I was going to impose my own criteria on MmPicks, my level wouldn't have qualifed.

Keep up the good work Stevenl...

* I wonder if getting rid of the ribbon/pin would alleviate some of the hate?		2012-03-22 03:12:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

Try 31 (according to profle). Now I feel bad for Piece-o-Rutt; what kid is going to choose than PSN Ungreth?!?

31!?

Either he's lying through his little rutt or...uh...ok, I'll say no more.

If anyone needs me, I'll be over there in that dark corner eating my words. :blush:		2012-03-22 04:12:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

I'd say the day Steven gets drunk enough to pick a bomb/shark survival is the day we need to start worrying lol.2012-03-22 07:11:00

Author:
comishguy67
Posts: 849

I don't post on here much but im going to put my two pence worth in on this whole MM pick thing.

First of all I think people just need to chill out a bit and remember the 3 simple words that founded LBP, PLAY/CREATE/SHARE.
We all get different things out of this game, but when its boiled down, it comes down to the shared love of creating things surely?
If you're playing this game solely for 'fame' or hits then you're playing for the wrong reasons imo.
Now don't get me wrong, we all put a lot of work into our projects and to crave a bit of recognition in return is understandable,
when you put a lot of work into a project and it gets no plays that can be very annoying! but you just need to look at the numbers, last count it was well over 6 million levles, not everyone is going to get thousands of plays, just not going to happen.

So this is where the MM Picks come in, they give the creator near instant plays and 'fame' boost, so when a creator see's a new pick and thinks "Hang on that level is ****, how come that got picked and mine didn't? Why has that got 10'000 plays and mine only 20?"
Well guess what, thats just the luck of the draw, MM can't play everything, If you are lucky enough for them to play your level, and lucky enough for them to think it was FUN, then chances are you might get picked, nothing more to it than that. There are thousands of levels out there that deserve more plays than they have, and thousands that probably have more than they should.
If you spend months working on something, thinking... This is the one thats going to make me known of finally get me picked, then you are going to be disappointed!

From what I can work out, chances are you probably wouldn't want an MM pick anyway if you actually got one, from what i hear they bring nothing but abuse... so think carefully about what you wish for because you may just get it....

imo plays aren't the be all and end all anyway, feedback is what you want, that is how you improve as a creator, you will learn more from 5 constructive reviews than 10'000 plays, trust me.

So remember, create for the joy of actually creating things,if anything comes of it than look at it as a bonus.


http://youtu.be/4X2AvfSTi6Q		2012-03-22 09:31:00

Author:
thespacemonkey187
Posts: 318

31!?

Either he's lying through his little rutt or...uh...ok, I'll say no more.

If anyone needs me, I'll be over there in that dark corner eating my words. :blush:

Oh geeeze... hey, you really had your heart in the right place. That has to count for something. 		2012-03-22 12:09:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Hmmmm
I wouldn't mind if each MM Pick had a little review from Steven or Spaff, saying why they picked it :-)		2012-03-22 13:14:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

Hmmmm
I wouldn't mind if each MM Pick had a little review from Steven or Spaff, saying why they picked it :-)

They used to....

http://www.mediamolecule.com/community/mmpicks/		2012-03-22 13:24:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754

Yup, I know.
And I miss that, hence why I brought it back up here.		2012-03-22 13:29:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

You can see clearly by reading the reviews of the level that people are either disappointed and/or frustrated.

Or jealous.


Picks are displayed on an exclusive list with those rare ribbons, the highest award a level can achieve (1 in 30,000) and that has no significant? You would think it would have to do something **** impressive to beat 30,000 levels.

Just because it's rare or has a pretty decoration doesn't mean the level has to be impressive. If Mm decided to give out Mm Poos, decorating chosen levels with a pretty turd, and they're even rarer (one in a million), they must be even more impressive than Mm Picks?

If they had a different name, you might have a point. But Mm Pick? There are no false promises there.


So of course people expect something.

Yes, but sometimes things don't turn out as you expected. Then you should adjust your expectation. You don't own Mm, you don't decide which levels are best, and you certainly can't decide which levels Mm thinks are worth notice (unless you get a pink name, ofcourse).

If Mm had just done what everyone expected of them, we'd be playing some FPS clone right now.		2012-03-22 13:40:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

Hmmmm
I wouldn't mind if each MM Pick had a little review from Steven or Spaff, saying why they picked it :-)

It's not something that I can promise to do every single week.
If I did, I would have less time to play levels and select Mm Picks, resulting in fewer Mm Picks.

However that's not to say that I won't on occassion publish a post highlighting the best of the best.
Those Mm Picks that truly stand out due to their sheer awesome quality and brilliant innovation. 		2012-03-22 14:17:00

Author:
StevenI
Community Manager
Posts: 420

It's not something that I can promise to do every single week.
If I did, I would have less time to play levels and select Mm Picks, resulting in fewer Mm Picks.

However that's not to say that I won't on occassion publish a post highlighting the best of the best.
Those Mm Picks that truly stand out due to their sheer awesome quality and brilliant innovation.

If I can add my 2 cents...you better not my friend.
People complain over the difference of treatments.
If you don't review all the levels you pick, we will see another crapstorm.
Also, I know it's hard to do but maybe you guys should ask people if they want to be picked or not.
I guess someone would prefer to not be trolled than being picked.
Fame is not something everyone searches for.		2012-03-22 14:37:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

If I can add my 2 cents...you better not my friend.
People complain over the difference of treatments.
If you don't review all the levels you pick, we will see another crapstorm.
Also, I know it's hard to do but maybe you guys should ask people if they want to be picked or not.
I guess someone would prefer to not be trolled than being picked.
Fame is not something everyone searches for.

I would agree... publishing something saying the best of the best of Mm picks when there are other levels just as good or even better that are not picked is saying what?

If you are going to do Mm picks.. just do them and if you want, write a small blurb on why you like it. That would be an extra 3 - 5 minutes per pick. Does not have to be as huge as what you normally would used to write on a level.		2012-03-22 14:42:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Also, I know it's hard to do but maybe you guys should ask people if they want to be picked or not.
I guess someone would prefer to not be trolled than being picked.
Fame is not something everyone searches for.

I understand where you're coming from but I don't think anyone at Mm has the time to write the creators and ask for their permission before Mmpicking their level. If they don't like it they can always delete it. I know several that have.
Also, about the reviewing... maybe some levels need a review to make people understand why it's being picked... but there's no way StevenI will have time to write reviews on every Mmpick. I think it should be ok to only write reviews on some levels.
There will always be people complaining no matter what.
2012-03-22 15:00:00

Author:
leklack
Posts: 26

There will always be people complaining no matter what.

Whew... now there is an understatement!! Like I said before, I will never understand why an Mm pick carries so much weight. I pay attention to those almost as much as I ignore the cool pages. lol		2012-03-22 15:07:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

I understand where you're coming from but I don't think anyone at Mm has the time to write the creators and ask for their permission before Mmpicking their level. If they don't like it they can always delete it. I know several that have.
Also, about the reviewing... maybe some levels need a review to make people understand why it's being picked... but there's no way StevenI will have time to write reviews on every Mmpick. I think it should be ok to only write reviews on some levels.
There will always be people complaining no matter what.


You're right about the review and the contact, the whole situation is plain absurd.

hm...
No review => Accept the pick
Review => Accept the pick AND the reason.

People will always complain and it has annoyed me so much

Still I trust StevenI's judgement, he's trying his best to change things for the better.		2012-03-22 15:20:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Someone should make a level where you have to help Stevenl find his marbles, it would probably get picked.

But Ungreth's the one who TOOK his marbles in the first place! Why do you think ATGNAT (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21058-ATGNAT-Glass-orb-WTF&highlight=ATGNAT) contacted him all those months ago searching for his "glass orb"? Coincidence? I think not.		2012-03-22 15:35:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

But Ungreth's the one who TOOK his marbles in the first place! Why do you think ATGNAT (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21058-ATGNAT-Glass-orb-WTF&highlight=ATGNAT) contacted him all those months ago searching for his "glass orb"? Coincidence? I think not.

So it IS a conspiracy!!!??? Oh NOES!!! To the batmobile! errr or something!		2012-03-22 15:53:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

So it IS a conspiracy!!!??? Oh NOES!!! To the batmobile! errr or something!

that reminds me. didn't MM hire someone named Batman already?

just incase nobody gets the joke...
https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=66622-We-need-a-Studio-Assistant!		2012-03-22 15:55:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

that reminds me. didn't MM hire someone named Batman already? [/url]!


"The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman." 		2012-03-22 16:43:00

Author:
leklack
Posts: 26

"The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman."

Funny.. I always wanted to be Bruce Wayne. Weird huh? 		2012-03-22 16:43:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

From what I can work out, chances are you probably wouldn't want an MM pick anyway if you actually got one, from what i hear they bring nothing but abuse... so think carefully about what you wish for because you may just get it....

imo plays aren't the be all and end all anyway, feedback is what you want, that is how you improve as a creator, you will learn more from 5 constructive reviews than 10'000 plays, trust me.

That is not true from my experience, I myself have never seen one sign of abuse towards me because of my pick and the level has more combined plays than the last 14 picks.

Also, having 10,000 people play your level motivates you a lot more than 5 people saying it could be better, kinda like when I first published my first level and only got "constructive criticism" and a dozen or so plays, I was frustrated because I believed they didn't understand the level, it wasn't suppose to be like everything else. Also frustrated that not a lot of people played it either. Fast forward one year from that and when the sequel had become somewhat successful I realised that some fools like my work and I have an audience and have been creating since.

Or jealous.

Then why aren't all the other levels picked as well not "attacked" in this manner?		2012-03-22 16:50:00

Author:
PPp_Killer
Posts: 449

Hi SackPeople,
I would like to express my little thoughts About this discussion.
The thing that I don't understand is because people judge a level based only on if it is worth or not to be an mmpick.
I think that a person should rather judge a level basing first on their feelings and don't give a bad or good feedback only if he is in agreement or not about The pick.
Each of us is different from other and everyone has different criteria in judging.
Have you ever wondered how you would have judged a level if it had not been an MMPick?
I think that sometimes what make great a level,is not only Innovation or Incredibles details or complexity,But behind a level that may seem simple, many times it provides the most important thing : the fun.
An Innovative and Super detailed level without fun it is no better than a simple but Fun level,Because to play Means Have Fun. 		2012-03-22 17:13:00

Author:
pirmaut
Posts: 99

Funny.. I always wanted to be Bruce Wayne. Weird huh?
I wanted to be Vikky Vale		2012-03-22 17:20:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

I wanted to be Vikky Vale

I wanted to be Harrison Ford		2012-03-22 17:22:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

I wanted to be Vale

fixed it for you 		2012-03-22 17:45:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

This is the goofy, funloving lbpcentral that I knew and loved. I knew it was still in there somewhere.

We need more of this and less of the yelling and fighting about mm picks!		2012-03-22 18:02:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39256&d=1332430885

He's the hero Catham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.		2012-03-22 18:14:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

He's the hero Catham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

Heh, Catham.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/cat-pig.JPG		2012-03-22 18:38:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Heh, ham.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/cat-pig.JPG

You guys (& gals ofc) and your posts of offtopic sillyness...Can't say I don't enjoy it.

Ontopic: I actually like the new picks, found the lucky charms level rather fun :-D		2012-03-22 18:49:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

I think all levels for the last 3 years should be wiped and we should start over with a clean slate, and with a new set of "rules":

The sad face will be removed from the rating system (lack of any negative feedback encourages happiness).

Hearting shall become invisible.... you can heart all you like, but no one will ever know it (will get rid of H4H).

All levels will succumb to the veto power of Steve_Big_Guns. If he doesn't like it, it will be removed (will encourage quality).

Each person can only have a single level published at one time (will prevent spam publishing).

All sack people must wear the Miss Piggy costume (prevents costume/gender bias).

All published levels will be MM picked and plays within the system will be evenly distributed (this will prevent jealousy).


This should, in affect, turn LittleBigPlanet into a beautiful utopian society where everyone is happy. And if it's suspected they aren't happy, Stevenl will have the power to immediately eradicate them from the system.		2012-03-22 19:11:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Stevenl?
I always thought it was Steven(Capital i!)

And @CuzFeeshe/CCubage/Nonleggedfishdood:
So...Steve'd have to play every level...published....ever?		2012-03-22 19:20:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

So...Steve'd have to play every level...published....ever?

Yes... even the ones on our Moons :0 ... after all that's the only way to be fair. *mew		2012-03-22 19:23:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

All sack people must wear the Miss Piggy costume

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mother-of-god-meme.jpg		2012-03-22 19:32:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

Stevenl?
I always thought it was Steven(Capital i!)

It's Steven with a capital i.
Or just Steven, if you prefer. 		2012-03-22 19:32:00

Author:
StevenI
Community Manager
Posts: 420

So...Steve'd have to play every level...published....ever?

Yes... all of them.

Although, the servers will only allow 10 levels to be published every week. This will prevent the lag during play people complain about.

Sorry about the misspelling of StevenI's name. I spelled it "Stevenl" instead of "StevenI". I should get my eyes checked.... 		2012-03-22 19:57:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I think all levels for the last 3 years should be wiped and we should start over with a clean slate, and with a new set of "rules":

The sad face will be removed from the rating system (lack of any negative feedback encourages happiness).

Hearting shall become invisible.... you can heart all you like, but no one will ever know it (will get rid of H4H).

All levels will succumb to the veto power of Steve_Big_Guns. If he doesn't like it, it will be removed (will encourage quality).

Each person can only have a single level published at one time (will prevent spam publishing).

All sack people must wear the Miss Piggy costume (prevents costume/gender bias).

All published levels will be MM picked and plays within the system will be evenly distributed (this will prevent jealousy).


This should, in affect, turn LittleBigPlanet into a beautiful utopian society where everyone is happy. And if it's suspected they aren't happy, Stevenl will have the power to immediately eradicate them from the system.


Your new "rules" are highly unlikely going to be imposed. If this happens, fewer people will play LBP1/LBP2. I also hate the idea of deleting levels and having a level filter where some can be accepted or rejected.		2012-03-22 20:39:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

Your new "rules" are highly unlikely going to be imposed. If this happens, fewer people will play LBP1/LBP2. I also hate the idea of deleting levels and having a level filter where some can be accepted or rejected.

you... did notice he was joking right? o.o		2012-03-22 20:41:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Your new "rules" are highly unlikely going to be imposed. If this happens, fewer people will play LBP1/LBP2. I also hate the idea of deleting levels and having a level filter where some can be accepted or rejected.

psssst... he was kidding. ...well, for the most part. Removing sad faces will happen err "soon". 		2012-03-22 20:41:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Your new "rules" are highly unlikely going to be imposed. If this happens, fewer people will play LBP1/LBP2. I also hate the idea of deleting levels and having a level filter where some can be accepted or rejected.

Let me clarify.... I was kidding.

Edit: fumetsusozo and jww beat me to it....

But then again... the Miss Piggy costume idea isn't bad....		2012-03-22 20:44:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I also have to say that judging by the title of this topic, Mm Picks are like South Park. They both start out bad, then they get better, and then they go downhill.2012-03-22 20:49:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

"The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman."
Batman USES these very forums. I mean it. No lie.
(On-topic)
Mm Picks, IMO, aren't going downhill. I think they're doing just fine. Mm has opinions too, you know.		2012-03-22 21:24:00

Author:
Sackpapoi
Posts: 1195

psssst... he was kidding. ...well, for the most part. Removing sad faces will happen err "soon".

They are...?

Now you have to say we did good :kz:		2012-03-22 21:25:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

But then again... the Miss Piggy costume idea isn't bad....

Dibs on being Miss Snow Bunny Piggy! lol		2012-03-22 21:30:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

psssst... he was kidding. ...well, for the most part. Removing sad faces will happen err "soon".

For reviews, I agree that the sad faces must go. Somebody has been going through all my reviews and rating them down. I think it's RASTAlite who's doing it, and he's doing it to be mean.
For comments, I might agree on that, because there's no reason to rate comments up/down. Every time I say something helpful, a lot of people rate my comments down. One example of this was that I tell people to leave Latin_Player_10 alone because copying levels isn't a bad thing at all. Instead of listening to me, they rate my comment down. One even went over to my profile to post a hate comment towards me, infringing on my rights to play LBP2.
For levels, I do not like the idea of removing the rating down option because some of these levels are really trash or impossible to complete. Plus, it could mess up the rating system and some of the pins might go away. And I hope the Mm Picked pin doesn't go away.		2012-03-22 21:58:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

Why can't people just show some respect and accept the fact that someone with a level they didint like got more plays and recognition than theirs did.
Well, grayspence, it's because they are human.
I had made this point earlier, but I think some of you guys missed it. The general masses of LBP2, or the 99%, have varying beliefs about Mm picks, but, even though they do realize that the Mm picks are just what Mm likes, they still think, as RoDRiGo-FiLiPiNo pointed out, that there is and should be a quality standard. It varies for people, but it's generally higher than a level like Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms. When a level is picked which is below the quality standard, the masses of LBP2 get angry that a level of such mediocre quality is getting more plays than those of a much superior quality, or excellence. All the hate you see on this level is not really hate at the creator and levels, although that may be what it looks like. It is actually hate at Mm. However, the way of hating on Mm is generally by disliking the level and writing a negative review or comment. Poor creator! He probably didn't even ask for an Mm pick. Yes, once again, I contributed to this, but I was only doing what almost everyone else was doing. While this isn't the behavior of the people on the forums, it is for the general people of LBP. You can't break them off this mentality. The only solution is for Mm to stop picking these types of levels, so people won't perceive an injustice and go hate.
Oh and by the way, I had actually prepared a list of 7-10 levels I felt deserved Mm picks, and had written descriptions why they deserved them. But my stupid computer crashed! I may recreate it later, but I'm too lazy right now.		2012-03-22 22:38:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

It would be nice to have more options to find levels... with all of those options presented with equal precedence on 1 screen.

Maybe something like this:

Cool pages
Mm picks
Community picks
Hidden Gems - highly rated levels with under 300 plays
Recommended Levels - levels similar to what you've previously played
At the moment a lot of the tools for finding levels are hidden in the search menu.		2012-03-22 23:02:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

I had made this point earlier, but I think some of you guys missed it. The general masses of LBP2, or the 99%, have varying beliefs about Mm picks, but, even though they do realize that the Mm picks are just what Mm likes, they still think, as RoDRiGo-FiLiPiNo pointed out, that there is and should be a quality standard. It varies for people, but it's generally higher than a level like Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms. When a level is picked which is below the quality standard, the masses of LBP2 get angry that a level of such mediocre quality is getting more plays than those of a much superior quality, or excellence. All the hate you see on this level is not really hate at the creator and levels, although that may be what it looks like. It is actually hate at Mm. However, the way of hating on Mm is generally by disliking the level and writing a negative review or comment. Poor creator! He probably didn't even ask for an Mm pick. Yes, once again, I contributed to this, but I was only doing what almost everyone else was doing. While this isn't the behavior of the people on the forums, it is for the general people of LBP. You can't break them off this mentality. The only solution is for Mm to stop picking these types of levels, so people won't perceive an injustice and go hate.


Like there are not already levels that exist that are as good or better than Mm picks? Of course! So why does it matter? ..except in this case the creator has gotten bombed with all sorts of terrible comments "supposedly pointed at Mm". Like Mm goes there to read their mail? Brilliant!! Why not a letter TO Mm if you want to complain or suggest things to them? ..I know.. much easier to blast some poor unsuspecting creator that just got a pink ribbon. Wow.. amazing logic there.

How about everyone just behaving like decent humans and just let it go...		2012-03-22 23:05:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Note that this level is St Patrick day level same as Hollowen levels been picked in October, so i guess there was not better level themed with St Patrick day2012-03-22 23:09:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Wow. 8 pages of this already? Well I have not been around central in months but had to stop by and give my usual ridiculous opinion that somehow gets seen as horrid bashings. It's pretty dumb that Mm pick worthy has become so much of a way to judge a level. They have been of all different qualities and genres ever since. I think it's just as bad to say a level is unworthy as it is to say one is worthy. That's not up to us to determine. It was up to Mm and now Steveni. When i saw that he was picking 5 a week I was amazed and incredibly happy. One think I've always thought is that we simply need more Mm picked creators since it is clearly obvious that it helps that particular creator get exposure, whether that be bad or good. In the case of this Lucky Charms level... It seems rather bad.. Usually people get motivated when they get a Mm pick and thankfully this guy hasn't played in a few months and is unknowing of the hate that has plagued his level. Imagine what that will be like when (if) he gets back on lbp. "Sweet! i got a Mm pick!" "Darn! Everyone hates the level!" I certainly wouldn't be inspired after that.

Now, anyone who wrote a review needs to ask themselves why they even played the level in the first place. Hmmm I wonder. The level has been published for over a year. That is a lot of time for people to have played it. So how many of you guys did before it was picked? I'm going out on a limb here and guess no one did? I'm going to assume even further and say was it the level quality that made you not play it before? Nah. It's simply because you didn't know or care about it until it was picked. That applies to tons of people and levels though. Where no matter what. People simply wont play it unless it is or at least made by a creator that already has a pick. Oh, but what's this? Now Steveni is picking 5 levels a week, which will in turn make all of you that only play levels based on that status have so much more to play! Who cares if one or more are not "worthy" in your mindset if they are being picked so often now. More creators getting high amounts of exposure is a great thing and is pushing this community closer together instead of that whole separation due to a select group of creators getting all the exposure while hundreds if not thousands aren't getting much attention at all. Aside from all this ridiculous hate on one level, this new system of picking is very nice.

Instead of thinking "Wow this level sucks, what the hell was Mm thinking!" We should just take it as is and think "Well hey, if something that is not as great as some of the other picks can get picked, maybe I can make a level that can." And since they are now weekly instead of going almost a month without any, your chances are much better too! Yay!		2012-03-22 23:45:00

Author:
Dortr
Posts: 548

Wow. 8 pages of this already? Well I have not been around central in months but had to stop by and give my usual ridiculous opinion that somehow gets seen as horrid bashings. It's pretty dumb that Mm pick worthy has become so much of a way to judge a level. They have been of all different qualities and genres ever since. I think it's just as bad to say a level is unworthy as it is to say one is worthy. That's not up to us to determine. It was up to Mm and now Steveni. When i saw that he was picking 5 a week I was amazed and incredibly happy. One think I've always thought is that we simply need more Mm picked creators since it is clearly obvious that it helps that particular creator get exposure, whether that be bad or good. In the case of this Lucky Charms level... It seems rather bad.. Usually people get motivated when they get a Mm pick and thankfully this guy hasn't played in a few months and is unknowing of the hate that has plagued his level. Imagine what that will be like when (if) he gets back on lbp. "Sweet! i got a Mm pick!" "Darn! Everyone hates the level!" I certainly wouldn't be inspired after that.

Now, anyone who wrote a review needs to ask themselves why they even played the level in the first place. Hmmm I wonder. The level has been published for over a year. That is a lot of time for people to have played it. So how many of you guys did before it was picked? I'm going out on a limb here and guess no one did? I'm going to assume even further and say was it the level quality that made you not play it before? Nah. It's simply because you didn't know or care about it until it was picked. That applies to tons of people and levels though. Where no matter what. People simply wont play it unless it is or at least made by a creator that already has a pick. Oh, but what's this? Now Steveni is picking 5 levels a week, which will in turn make all of you that only play levels based on that status have so much more to play! Who cares if one or more are not "worthy" in your mindset if they are being picked so often now. More creators getting high amounts of exposure is a great thing and is pushing this community closer together instead of that whole separation due to a select group of creators getting all the exposure while hundreds if not thousands aren't getting much attention at all. Aside from all this ridiculous hate on one level, this new system of picking is very nice.

Instead of thinking "Wow this level sucks, what the hell was Mm thinking!" We should just take it as is and think "Well hey, if something that is not as great as some of the other picks can get picked, maybe I can make a level that can." And since they are now weekly instead of going almost a month without any, your chances are much better too! Yay!

I agree with you, and this topic should be locked. If they ever "bash" someone because of a level that doesn't look like an Mm Pick, then I don't know what to say, but I would like to see this topic getting locked.

BTW, I do not like the Miss Piggy costume idea.		2012-03-23 00:13:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

Well, jwwphotos, I naturally see the points you have clearly made, and I understand how you feel about my arguments. While not trying to offend you, I think that it might be beneficial to make something a tad bit more clear. See, I have constructed a pie graph that shows-

What's the point. Nobody's going to take this seriously. Oh god, what an ordeal this whole thread has been. Where should we start? Well, lets start with the IDIOCY.

I doubt that many of you even read half of what I wrote. Most of you, I think, didn't. I swear, some people look like they just read the title of the thread and posted based on just that. Half of you people's arguments against me are just the same thing, over and over again: "Mm picks what Mm likes. All your arguments are invalid." Well, guess what? I already knew that. What did you think? "Oh, Kalawishis must not have read those 22 comments saying Mm picks what Mm likes, I better tell him!" My god. I crafted all my arguments with that fact in mind, and yet you people act like I don't know it! To be honest, you all probably thought "Oh, here's just another idiot complaining about the Mm picks," and didn't even read what I wrote! Well, if that wasn't off-putting enough, there's all the rage this thread contains. A summary of Antikris' comment was simply her saying "Kalawishis, you shouldn't be mean", and then proceeding to be mean! I seriously couldn't tell if half the stuff she wrote was an argument or an insult! Nevermind all the other people on the thread who simply display similar (although less extreme) anger against me for having an opinion. A lot of you people are putting words in my mouth as well! In case some of you are confused, I never disliked StevenI's decision to have Mm picks regularly. In fact, I liked it; and yet all you people say that I want Mm picks to be erratic again, which, for the record, I HAVE NEVER SAID. It was pretty darn hard not to just blow my top and start yelling at people. I thought we could discuss this in a civil manner. I presented my case, and while I got peeved sometimes, I tried to keep the whole thing civil. Here's how the whole thread went:
1. I present the topic and thesis statement. Most disagree, some cautiously agree with some points I make. I put forth more points.
2. Antikris rips my head off. I restrain myself and put forth even more points.
3. People start complaining about the immaturity and belligerence of the thread. I don't know if they refer to me, Antikris, or everybody. Some more people, although not much, agree with some of my points. Many are neutral, agreeing with some of my points and disagreeing with others, and these are the most intelligent comments.
4. The thread starts to go off topic. Many people welcome this, because it brings a break from the idiocy and belligerence. By the time I arrive, it has already gone off to batman and the booing system, etc. I re-post some of my points, thinking I didn't explain them right, and trying to get the thread back on topic.
5. We see how great that goes.
I doubt if I can get the thread back on topic. All I can say is, I learned something today. I learned that if we can't discuss a touchy topic sensibly, because we then crash into a wall. To be honest, it was pretty stupid trying to convince people. It was a subject most disagreed with, and the people who agreed with me were few and far between. I just didn't expect so much...chaos. I know what CuzFeeshe meant when he said the thread was giving him a headache. I nearly had an ulcer. Anger and stupidity reigned, and it seriously made me sick. The amount of time most people thought before posting was probably tiny. I was happy whenever somebody posted something intelligent, even if it disagreed with me. I went into this thinking that I could actually change something, and now, I realize that I was being very stupid. Now, all I ask is for people to discuss the topic sensibly. There can be overwhelming dislike against my points as long as the posting is sensible. I don't want this to just become a general thread for anybody to discuss whatever, but I don't want people to be belligerent or stupid. Maybe that is a bit too much to ask.
Eh, someone's probably going to berate me now for some reason.		2012-03-23 01:01:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

I agree with you, and this topic should be locked. If they ever "bash" someone because of a level that doesn't look like an Mm Pick, then I don't know what to say, but I would like to see this topic getting locked.

Clearly a topic that has generated 8 pages worth of responses in the last 24 hours is a topic that many people wish to contribute their views to, so why should it be locked? Personally I'm impartial in this debate since I don't really play other people's levels and whatever gets Mm picked it makes little difference to me. I recently played a few; found the Paper World level awesome and wrongly assumed that Lucky Charms was made by a little kid, but I haven't played Mm picks enough to know whether the general quality has fallen or not. However, the OP clearly does care about Mm picks and voiced a genuine concern about what they percieve to be a diminishing standard, so just because you don't agree with their views it doesn't mean that anyone who wishes to discuss the topic should have that right taken away from them. That's called political censorship and we don't need that kind of bullcrap around here.		2012-03-23 01:02:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

..just because you don't agree with their views it doesn't mean that anyone who wishes to discuss the topic should have that right taken away from them.

A difference of opinion is not the reason. I think I made that clear.		2012-03-23 01:24:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

Well, jwwphotos, I naturally see the points you have clearly made, and I understand how you feel about my arguments. While not trying to offend you, I think that it might be beneficial to make something a tad bit more clear. See, I have constructed a pie graph that shows-

What's the point. Nobody's going to take this seriously. Oh god, what an ordeal this whole thread has been. Where should we start? Well, lets start with the IDIOCY.

I doubt that many of you even read half of what I wrote. Most of you, I think, didn't. I swear, some people look like they just read the title of the thread and posted based on just that. Half of you people's arguments against me are just the same thing, over and over again: "Mm picks what Mm likes. All your arguments are invalid." Well, guess what? I already knew that. What did you think? "Oh, Kalawishis must not have read those 22 comments saying Mm picks what Mm likes, I better tell him!" My god. I crafted all my arguments with that fact in mind, and yet you people act like I don't know it! To be honest, you all probably thought "Oh, here's just another idiot complaining about the Mm picks," and didn't even read what I wrote! Well, if that wasn't off-putting enough, there's all the rage this thread contains. A summary of Antikris' comment was simply her saying "Kalawishis, you shouldn't be mean", and then proceeding to be mean! I seriously couldn't tell if half the stuff she wrote was an argument or an insult! Nevermind all the other people on the thread who simply display similar (although less extreme) anger against me for having an opinion. A lot of you people are putting words in my mouth as well! In case some of you are confused, I never disliked StevenI's decision to have Mm picks regularly. In fact, I liked it; and yet all you people say that I want Mm picks to be erratic again, which, for the record, I HAVE NEVER SAID. It was pretty darn hard not to just blow my top and start yelling at people. I thought we could discuss this in a civil manner. I presented my case, and while I got peeved sometimes, I tried to keep the whole thing civil. Here's how the whole thread went:
1. I present the topic and thesis statement. Most disagree, some cautiously agree with some points I make. I put forth more points.
2. Antikris rips my head off. I restrain myself and put forth even more points.
3. People start complaining about the immaturity and belligerence of the thread. I don't know if they refer to me, Antikris, or everybody. Some more people, although not much, agree with some of my points. Many are neutral, agreeing with some of my points and disagreeing with others, and these are the most intelligent comments.
4. The thread starts to go off topic. Many people welcome this, because it brings a break from the idiocy and belligerence. By the time I arrive, it has already gone off to batman and the booing system, etc. I re-post some of my points, thinking I didn't explain them right, and trying to get the thread back on topic.
5. We see how great that goes.
I doubt if I can get the thread back on topic. All I can say is, I learned something today. I learned that if we can't discuss a touchy topic sensibly, because we then crash into a wall. To be honest, it was pretty stupid trying to convince people. It was a subject most disagreed with, and the people who agreed with me were few and far between. I just didn't expect so much...chaos. I know what CuzFeeshe meant when he said the thread was giving him a headache. I nearly had an ulcer. Anger and stupidity reigned, and it seriously made me sick. The amount of time most people thought before posting was probably tiny. I was happy whenever somebody posted something intelligent, even if it disagreed with me. I went into this thinking that I could actually change something, and now, I realize that I was being very stupid. Now, all I ask is for people to discuss the topic sensibly. There can be overwhelming dislike against my points as long as the posting is sensible. I don't want this to just become a general thread for anybody to discuss whatever, but I don't want people to be belligerent or stupid. Maybe that is a bit too much to ask.
Eh, someone's probably going to berate me now for some reason.

I only read the first word of your post and all you said is invalid, just kidding.
But seriously, kinda ironic how your unpopular opinion is being attacked the same way the level in question is. I'm started to think people are too heavily invested in their own belief that "It's what Mm likes!" because everyone clearly likes what he is picking... "Mm can't play all the levels" Because it clearly means he doesn't have to up hold a standard of peoples exceptions.

Note to StevenI: The level that is on the top of Mm picks generate most plays (:		2012-03-23 01:38:00

Author:
PPp_Killer
Posts: 449

@Kal

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15513440.jpg		2012-03-23 02:37:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

I'v not hurd any thing about the sad faces going id like it of they did tho lol.


I'v not played any of the new Mm picks....But i all ways thought Mm picked there picks cose the picks had the perfict tuch.

I hardly go to the cool pages but when i was all i see is the same thing over again.Bomb surivals free costumes Free items free emo decor.

I just have to ask something tho....Iv seen the same people get picked more than one's...One would think that doing something like that would cose any thing new to be Mm picked.It dont bother me but i fill that doing that is shuting out any new unfound creators..But thats just me.lol		2012-03-23 03:05:00

Author:
Lbphart3
Posts: 813

I'v not hurd any thing about the sad faces going id like it of they did tho lol.


I'v not played any of the new Mm picks....But i all ways thought Mm picked there picks cose the picks had the perfict tuch.

I hardly go to the cool pages but when i was all i see is the same thing over again.Bomb surivals free costumes Free items free emo decor.

I just have to ask something tho....Iv seen the same people get picked more than one's...One would think that doing something like that would cose any thing new to be Mm picked.It dont bother me but i fill that doing that is shuting out any new unfound creators..But thats just me.lol

They were picking many creators twice, and it was definitely giving the impression of bias. Spaff apologized, saying, if he had been doing his job better, this wouldn't have happened , (his words).

So, he handed over the reigns to StevenI to truly dedicate the time to supporting, promoting and rewarding community members.

I haven't played in a few weeks, so I can't comment on MM Pick quality (although I feel bad for the creator who's level is being brought up. I'm sure it could have been referenced without being specific), however, it seems StevenI has jumped into the Community Manager role with both feet. I'd much rather have the occasional bad level make it through to MM Picks then go back to getting one once a month, if that.

I'm good with things being the way they are. Steven is trying hard. Not much more you could ask for.		2012-03-23 03:22:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

Oh i didin't know that :o Shows you how long iv not played an Mm pick lol.

I dont know what level there talking about or the creator.lol

Its a shame that hes being put under so much pressure That must be a tuff job.You can't make every body happy There all ways going to find something to cry about cose there not Mm picked.

If they like your level im sure they will pick you,If they dont then im sure you know why lol lol lol Im sorry im so mean.

I'v never been Mm picked im sure the filling is graet but i don't see the point to come here and cry about whos geting Mm picked Steven Knows what hes doing.		2012-03-23 03:36:00

Author:
Lbphart3
Posts: 813

Jeeees... i can't believe this thread has grown so quickly. oh and one word before i give my opinion: PARAGRAPHS!

i'll keep it short because i'm exhausted after reading just 25% of this. MM picks are not meant for everyone. unless you honestly believe that MM have a hot line into your brain and can withdraw all of your personal tastes, artistic likes or gameplay preferences. it's meant to represent the community as a whole, not cater to a certain demographic and i think it's actually doing that better now than it has ever done.

this reminds me of the headaches i get from threads on the weekly PSN updates. some bemoan the updates for not having particular games, some complain that there's not enough, while some are beside themselves with joy over the inclusion of exactly what they wanted. we as gamers have grown a little greedy over the years and have forgotten why the PS brand was so great, 'Diversity'. this is why a certain other console sells millions of a certain FPS and TPS. it's because THAT company cater to the audience that bought that console for those two games. this is a mistake that Sony have never made and will never make and the reason why MM picks are PERFECT the way they are.

so if you suddenly feel obliged to complain about one week that doesn't suit you, try stepping outside of yourself for one moment and consider other peoples tastes... and just have patience. diversity comes at a cost, but it serves us better in the long run.

Thank you so much for the time you spend on our community, StevenI. You are doing brilliantly		2012-03-23 03:50:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

I guess this thread is taking a tentative step in the right direction...I'm not going to assume anything right now. And yes, I am typing in paragraphs.
Well, I might as well add my opinion. StevenI has done a lot of good, obviously. However, your point, GribbleGrunger, is a perfect springboard into my next point. If you look at the comments and reviews for Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms (look, I know I am mentioning this level a lot, but bear with me), as PPp_Killer pointed out, they aren't that swell. The community as a whole, or at least the 90% who don't use the forums, as RoDRiGo-FiLiPiNo pointed out in his top rated review, actually believe that there is a standard for what is Mm pick worthy, even if that is untrue. So, if the community is dissatisfied and disappointed with the pick, then the pick doesn't really represent the community. Even if the community is operating on false premises, it still is their belief. By the way, I do not think that Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms is a bad level. If were to review it, I would give it 3 stars out of 5, which is a neutral from me. It's pretty good, but far below the community's standards.

Oh, some people are saying that if we were to implement quality control for the Mm picks, then only the big creators will have the picks. I can honestly say that I believe this to be untrue, and that many creators with less hearts than me (whose heart level compared to the big creators is quite puny). For example: Crystal Defenders, Sackfox 2, Vikin 3D, the list goes on.

Hope I didn't make anybody mad...the thread is in a fragile state right now.		2012-03-23 04:46:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

Hmmm how you would see that quality control being implemented?2012-03-23 06:05:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Hmmm how you would see that quality control being implemented?

I guess a criteria of benchmark standards might be a start. Take Lucky Charms as an example since lets face it, thats the level that really sparked all the contoversy.

It's easy to see why people are getting so annoyed that a man who produced a very scruffy, underdeveloped and broken level has been given a springboard to success while other creators who have poured blood, sweat and tears into producing material of an exceptional standard get overlooked.

I thought the pick was a reasonable choice under the assumption that it was made by a very young kid, since each level should be taken on merit of the expected capabilities of the creators age group (you don't expect the Mona Lisa from a 7 year old). However this guy is 31 years old, and produced the equivalent of this...

http://new.4-hcurriculum.org/projects/kidspace/graphics/boy2-sm.gif

Now I agree that the hatred towards the creator is totally unjustified since he most likely never asked for an Mm pick and probably doesn't even want exposure of this magnitude, but whether Mm picks is just "levels that Mm liked" or not, the fact is that the community has come to expect a high standard of quality and innovation. Rather than expecting the community to just accept these substandard levels that were probably chosen because they gave someone at Mm a quick giggle, perhaps the controversy over this means it's time for Mm to re-evaluate the role and significance of Mm picks and adapt to what the community wants...a showcase for exceptional quality, must play levels. The community is the "customer" after all.

I don't know why I'm even getting involved in this discussion since I don't often play the Mm picks anyway. I guess I just feel some sympathy towards the OP who has been given an unreasonably hard time about raising what seemed to me like a valid concern, and I'd just like to say...well...maybe he has a point.		2012-03-23 07:42:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

Well, the new Mm picks have come, and while I haven't played them yet, I can say that via the reviews...StevenI did a pretty good job. I may suspect that there are some "very good but not excellent" levels in there, but I'm not as worried about that as I was earlier. The reason why I started this thread was because when Mm picked Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms, I feared that it might become a trend, with Mm picking mediocre levels along with the great ones, which would have been disastrous, for the reason I previously mentioned. Maybe Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was just a mistake, and Mm learned their lesson. Oh well, the damage is already done, sadly. Can I say that this thread had any effect on the Mm picks? Probably not. Maybe it was the offhand chance that StevenI was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw this thread, and changed his mind, or the chance that he was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw all the rage on the level, and changed his mind. Or maybe StevenI picking Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was a mistake on StevenI's part he secretly regretted, although this is probably untrue. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for no more mediocre levels in the Mm picks2012-03-23 13:38:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

StevenL has only been doing this for a short while and whilst i agree that Quest For Lucky Charms isn't a very inspired level (i played it for 30 seconds and returned to my pod) i'm sure over the coming months there will be many many deserved creators getting the break they need. perhaps StevenL saw potential with this creator and posted it for that reason, but it's far too early to moan just yet. give the man a break for goodness sake2012-03-23 15:22:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Well, the new Mm picks have come, and while I haven't played them yet, I can say that via the reviews...StevenI did a pretty good job. I may suspect that there are some "very good but not excellent" levels in there, but I'm not as worried about that as I was earlier. The reason why I started this thread was because when Mm picked Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms, I feared that it might become a trend, with Mm picking mediocre levels along with the great ones, which would have been disastrous, for the reason I previously mentioned. Maybe Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was just a mistake, and Mm learned their lesson. Oh well, the damage is already done, sadly. Can I say that this thread had any effect on the Mm picks? Probably not. Maybe it was the offhand chance that StevenI was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw this thread, and changed his mind, or the chance that he was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw all the rage on the level, and changed his mind. Or maybe StevenI picking Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was a mistake on StevenI's part he secretly regretted, although this is probably untrue. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for no more mediocre levels in the Mm picks

Conclusion: you panic because just one level over just at least 100

Oh btw i yet to hear how this quality control suppose to be IMPLEMENTED ^^'

Imo mm pick should be levels that MM likes and quality should not be only thing that matter, but idea and fun too and i think mm shouldn't be stress them selfs if somebody like there pick or not		2012-03-23 16:00:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Well, you don't really have to implement quality control. All StevenI has to do is simply hold quality in a higher regard when picking Mm picks. Maybe StevenI could think more based on the community, but I guess his job is hard enough as it is. You can see the effects of picking a level like Quest For Lucky Charms is. I think the only levels that are picked and don't generate hate are the really high quality ones. Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset. Yeah, there are always people upset during nearly every level, but not nearly as much as with these types.While most of you on the forums don't get upset, you have to understand that the people on the forums and the people not on the forums are two different groups of people. They have wildly differing opinions. I remember on one or two of the Community Spotlights where the top rated review was a negative one. If I posted anything like that on here, you all would probably rip me apart, and yet, it was top rated review-for a time. I think that it might have been deleted. So you don't get upset, but a lot of the non-forum people do.

I might as well establish some rules for posting on this thread. I don't want the thread to become stupid, angry, or off-topic again:
1. Your posts should stay on topic.
2. Your posts shouldn't be mean, insulting, snide, or sarcastic in a cruel way. The worst you can be is brutally honest, and that doesn't mean: "I'm going to be brutally honest, you're a jerk." I mean: "I'm going to be brutally honest, I really didn't like your post/level/signature."
3. This isn't really a rule, but at least try to think before you just post, and try reading everything so your post doesn't operate on stuff disproved by someone else, or something already said, unless you want to re-clarify something.
4. You should try being as calm and civil as possible when you post-even if you really want to punch somebody. You shouldn't get angry.
5. Nobody should really post: "OMG, dis thred is stoopid," or "all of you babies grow up," or anything that diverts from the general topic, unless the thread really is becoming belligerent or off topic.
6. If you break any of these rules...I'll get upset.

Try to think of this part as part 2 of the thread. Part 1 was a disaster, but part 2 will try to be more smart, civil, and on topic. Anyway, some people may see some of the stuff in my first post as mean, so I'll edit that out.		2012-03-23 19:11:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset.

Why is this a problem exactly?!? As you say some people are bound to get bent out of shape no matter what. Too many retro arcade games, not enough platformers, etc, etc. we've heard it all before.

It's really only a problem for the person picked in that they may be an outlier on the community abuse bell curve. They do have a recourse fortunately, they can delete their pick and soon be able to temporarily disable comments. 7 days pass and a new batch of levels shows up to take the heat.

I think you're putting WAY too much stock in a the hateful comments of a vocal/unappreciative/immature minority, look at the play/smile/frown ratio on "that level", not too shabby...clearly some people are enjoying this pick or are at least decent enough to move along quietly. *hint* *hint*

* I sincerely apologize in advance if I violated any of your "rules" for posting...		2012-03-23 20:01:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

Well, you don't really have to implement quality control. All StevenI has to do is simply hold quality in a higher regard when picking Mm picks. Maybe StevenI could think more based on the community, but I guess his job is hard enough as it is. You can see the effects of picking a level like Quest For Lucky Charms is. I think the only levels that are picked and don't generate hate are the really high quality ones. Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset. Yeah, there are always people upset during nearly every level, but not nearly as much as with these types.

I still don't think it is a big deal.. I feel you are upset only because you hold Mm picks in such high and lofty regard. I mean it isn't like they are airline safety inspectors or anything. If one isn't up to "certain standards", it isn't like hundreds will die in a fiery plane crash. Be glad Mm has anything to do with us at all. They even hired a new person, StevenI, to help out.

The only thing this pick to me has proved to me is that the general community still cannot seem to behave themselves. Posting nasty comments on a picked level for being upset at Mm is a bit like me spray painting nasty notes on someone's car because I'm not happy with the with the companies new models. Have a complaint.. make a thread here as you did, or send a note to Mm to voice your concerns.

...and as far as your "rules". The mods here do wonderful work in that regard and I don't think need any help or advice. Also for someone that has been a member here for almost a year, you should know by now we do like to have fun now and again.

So lighten mmm' kay? You'll live longer. 		2012-03-23 20:29:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Try to think of this part as part 2 of the thread. Part 1 was a disaster, but part 2 will try to be more smart, civil, and on topic. Anyway, some people may see some of the stuff in my first post as mean, so I'll edit that out.

I like to think of "Parts" as being....Well, trying to be close to equal.
128 posts later and you call it part two....does this mean there'll be....let's say,100....no....even 50 more posts on this thread?
I don't think so.		2012-03-23 21:18:00

Author:
Valeview
Posts: 1581

Meh. Just thought I'd drop by and mention. I absolutely HATED the movie Avatar.

It was just plain terrible. But that's just my opinion.

Keep up the great work StevenI! It's harder than people think.

If anything what the game needs is an 'un-cool' tag that Mm peeps can use in a LBP.me type way to deactivate clearly junky levels from being counted and rated in the cool pages algorithm.		2012-03-23 21:45:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

I just played that level every one is talking about...Lol poor guy i wonder if he knows hes even Mm picked?


The levels ok its not really a Mm pick......But hay Mm seen something in his level to be Mm picked,Every one should have the chance to be Mm picke even tho your level may be A tad eh lol.

I'd like to have that chance to have something to show for.But i fear what comes with that as all i see on his page is hate Why do so many of you go on his page and say such mean things?		2012-03-23 22:10:00

Author:
Lbphart3
Posts: 813

I'd like to have that chance to have something to show for.But i fear what comes with that as all i see on his page is hate Why do so many of you go on his page and say such mean things?
I wouldn't judge the fate of others' levels from the feedback on this person's level. Many people simply didn't like it, and were either jealous or felt it didn't deserve a pick. Take a look at some of the other Mm Picks. They're usually intricately crafted and look like a lot of care was put into it. With this level, it didn't LOOK exactly like what people expected, but the gameplay was unique. I don't think a pick should be judged by its looks.
However, please don't say, "Why do so many of YOU go on his page and say such mean things?" The people here are nice, and I don't think they're the kind of people to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the forum community doesn't make up the whole community. In fact, I didn't see one mean comment on there from a forum member here.
But back to that "hate" thing. One of your levels could be a huge hit someday. There are jealous people in the world, but that most likely will not outweigh your supporters. 		2012-03-24 00:19:00

Author:
Sackpapoi
Posts: 1195

I wouldn't judge the fate of others' levels from the feedback on this person's level. Many people simply didn't like it, and were either jealous or felt it didn't deserve a pick. Take a look at some of the other Mm Picks. They're usually intricately crafted and look like a lot of care was put into it. With this level, it didn't LOOK exactly like what people expected, but the gameplay was unique. I don't think a pick should be judged by its looks.
However, please don't say, "Why do so many of YOU go on his page and say such mean things?" The people here are nice, and I don't think they're the kind of people to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the forum community doesn't make up the whole community. In fact, I didn't see one mean comment on there from a forum member here.
But back to that "hate" thing. One of your levels could be a huge hit someday. There are jealous people in the world, but that most likely will not outweigh your supporters.

The level wasn't judged purely on it's looks. A lot of people stated that the level was broken and prevented them from progressing even when they successfully knocked out all the leprechauns. I don't think it's fair to put all the negativity down to "jealousy" either. Look at the top rated reviews of Paper World 2, and the general consensus is that it's an amazing level and well deserving of it's pick. People seem generally inclined to call a gem a gem when they see one shine. Now look at the top rated reviews of Lucky Charms, and you'll find that the predominant view is that the level lacks the feel of an Mm pick, that the level is ugly and broken, and that there is general confusion about why it was picked. These comments are for the most part not rude and abusive, but generally trying to be tactful in pointing out that the level is not of the standard that people have come to expect of Mm picks. I don't think it helps either that the guy is displaying his "touching royalty" pin on his profile, as this has inevitably led to suspicion of some bias in Piece-o-Rutt's favour.

Of course this does not mean, as Kalawishis suggested, that the overall quality of Mm picks is diminishing. It simply means that somebody at Mm (StevenI presumably) may arguably have made some error of judgement in picking this one, particular level that is quite clearly not up to the usual standard of other Mm picks. The other two recent Mm picks that I played, I personally considered these to be of exceptional quality, so clearly Steven does know a great level when he sees one.

Whatever was going through his mind when he picked Lucky Charms, we shouldn't forget that StevenI has a dang tough job to do and he's never going to please all of the people all of the time. We should be thankful that we have somebody of his ilk at the helm of Mm picks now, since he is quite evidently well dedicated and very passionate about the LBP community, and of course he wouldn't have been given the job of community manager by Mm is that wasn't the case. I wonder whether we could help to make life a little easier for him with a "Suggestions to Steven" sticky thread here at LBP Central where forum members could post their suggestions about any mind-blowingly awesome levels they have found and feel that he should seriously consider for a pick.

I guess it would be down to Steven himself to decide whether such a thread would be helpful to him or not though, and if he's following this discussion then perhaps he could tell us his stance on this.		2012-03-24 01:35:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

I think you're putting WAY too much stock in a the hateful comments of a vocal/unappreciative/immature minority, look at the play/smile/frown ratio on "that level", not too shabby...clearly some people are enjoying this pick or are at least decent enough to move along quietly. *hint* *hint*

* I sincerely apologize in advance if I violated any of your "rules" for posting...

No, you did not break any rules. To be honest, the community that is not the forum people is a lot more immature than you might think. The like to dislike ratio on the Quest for Lucky Charms pick is about 5 to 1, which is the same as the average copied by Latin_Piayer_10 level. Yes, the whole situation is pretty sad. I think the ratio would be a lot better if the level wasn't Mm picked. The Mm pick caused a lot of the dislikes, and they weren't by most of us, they were by the community. That's why I think there should be quality control. Mm picking "pretty good" levels actually harms the level and creator. The whole mentality is bad, but I don't think there can be much we can do about it.


I like to think of "Parts" as being....Well, trying to be close to equal.
128 posts later and you call it part two....does this mean there'll be....let's say,100....no....even 50 more posts on this thread?
I don't think so.
Humans split time into two parts, B.C. and A.D., and B.C.'s a lot longer than A.D.		2012-03-24 01:40:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

Okay, my post was totally ignored. I thought it was a good point. xD
Anyways, Kala, MM picks isn't about super amazing unbelievably epic levels. It's a way of saying "Hey, this level was fun and deserves more plays." Just like LBPC Spotlights. Every level thats MM picked doesn't have to be some amazing break-through in the LBP community.

My point is, MMP levels don't have to be amazing. They have to be good. Something people will enjoy. Sure, a shiny new FPS is enjoyable. But so is a simple platformer, or shooter.

Also, I think you're being very rude to the creator of QFC. Because you're saying "I think your level is terrible and doesn't deserve to be MM picked. You're crushing all self-esteem they got from the MM pick. He may become the next SBG.		2012-03-24 03:08:00

Author:
TradeMarkSG
Posts: 65

Greeter i didin't say this hole community im just going by what iv seen on here and on his page i fill sorry for him.It was some what of a funn level think of it as a funn Mm pick rather then looks.Lol


I all ways wonder what that would be like to have one good hit..I dont think i have any supporters yeat,Iv only got 1 level thats really going far,I mostly get people who want me to give them my stuff and i dont do that lol,.

My gaol tho is to win a contest,It may tack for ever or mabe never but its a dream i'd love to a achieve.

I think he needs more support it just really bothers me how some are talking about him.It just makes me think what would i do if i was in his shoes 		2012-03-24 04:13:00

Author:
Lbphart3
Posts: 813

I think that people only downrate such levels as "Sackboy's Quest For The Lucky Charms" because they're jelaous that a mediocre level like Sackboy's Quest for the Lucky Charms got picked and theirs didn't, and this is ok because its simply the human nature.

Stevenl simply picked this level because it was fun for him to play and it was a St. Patricks Day themed level that fit well for the time.

However, it is not ok for someone to be jelaous of such a level and rant about how there level should be MM Picked and that level sucked, when ultimately its not up to you what is best. If you didn't like the level, you just give it a "boo" and tell the creator what he did wrong so he can fix it in future levels.		2012-03-24 04:30:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

Lots of the reviews mention that it "didn't deserve to be an Mm Pick". And a lot of cursing. People are also calling it "cheap" or "with little detail". So there's probably loads of reasons why people didn't like it, but Mm did. I liked it, just didn't love it. I really don't think it's fair for the creator though. 1) He has no control over whether he gets a pick or not. 2) People are being rude just because it wasn't the most amazing thing in the world, and that it was "cheap" (lots of complaining about seeing the floor, which I don't think is a really bad thing.) This may not be fair for other creators either. Like LBPhart was saying (it's Geet-R btw. But it is a confusing name to spell out to people ), what if other levels like this get picked and get bashed on too? That's not really giving a fair chance to creators with varying skill or tastes. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I've been corrected loads of times today, but I seriously think people are being rash and picky.2012-03-24 10:38:00

Author:
Sackpapoi
Posts: 1195

Because you're saying "I think your level is terrible
TradeMarkSG, I am so close to just snapping at you.
I have stated IN MULTIPLE POSTS that I did not not think it was terrible, rather, I thought it was PRETTY GOOD. My god. You say your posts get ignored, just look at me.

Like LBPhart was saying (it's Geet-R btw. But it is a confusing name to spell out to people ), what if other levels like this get picked and get bashed on too? That's not really giving a fair chance to creators with varying skill or tastes.
My point exactly. If another level like Quest for Lucky Charms gets picked, IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.		2012-03-24 14:53:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

Careful, Kalawishis, remember the rules!

Maybe if "the community" stopped hiding behind excuses like "everyone else is doing it", and gave some consideration about how others will be affected by their actions (in other words apply those rules that govern this thread in the game), Mm wouldn't have to be careful which levels they picked. I'm an idealist. So sue me. 		2012-03-24 15:49:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

I do remember the rules. After all, I made them.

Maybe if "the community" stopped hiding behind excuses like "everyone else is doing it", and gave some consideration about how others will be affected by their actions (in other words apply those rules that govern this thread in the game), Mm wouldn't have to be careful which levels they picked.
But they don't. People can't just suddenly all change their minds.		2012-03-24 16:51:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

That would make my job soooo much easier...

On a more serious note though, there is no official quality scale for the MmPicks.
Obviously we do like to ensure that the levels are of a decent quality but above all, they must be fun to play.

We found Sackboy's Lucky Charms to be terribly addictive and very fitting for a St. Patrick's Day themed set of MmPicks, which is why it was chosen last week.

A good number of players do seem to be enjoying the level though, since the play and heart count of the level is currently the highest and 2nd highest of the recent selection of MmPicks respectively.
So whilst it may not be to everybody's taste, there's certainly a good number of people who are finding the level to be enjoyable.

The MmPicks have had quite a radical change recently and we're trying our best to feature new and talented creators every week!
As there are truly so many talented people out there that are still worthy of recognition and we would really like to give those awesome creators their chance to shine!
Which is why we now feature a good mixture of creators and level types every week!

So even if you don't agree with every single MmPick for the week...
Try coming back next Friday and we'll have a brand new batch of five MmPicks online and who knows?
You may even find one of your favourite creators featured!

Are there any restrictions on getting Mm Picked? My #1 goal of LBP2 is to get Mm Picked, and I'm trying hard to make a good level.		2012-03-25 02:15:00

Author:
Apple2012
Posts: 1408

TradeMarkSG, I am so close to just snapping at you.
I have stated IN MULTIPLE POSTS that I did not not think it was terrible, rather, I thought it was PRETTY GOOD. My god. You say your posts get ignored, just look at me.

My point exactly. If another level like Quest for Lucky Charms gets picked, IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.

I wasn't talking JUST about the Lucky Charms level. But about you saying MM picks are getting bad overall. You don't need to get so angry. You don't expect me to go through all the pages and read every post, do you? I just read what I can and comment on what I think. "IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY." Including you? Isn't that why you started the topic in the first place? To say that the MM picks levels aren't good?		2012-03-25 03:01:00

Author:
TradeMarkSG
Posts: 65

The only thing this pick to me has proved to me is that the general community still cannot seem to behave themselves. Posting nasty comments on a picked level for being upset at Mm is a bit like me spray painting nasty notes on someone's car because I'm not happy with the with the companies new models. Have a complaint.. make a thread here as you did, or send a note to Mm to voice your concerns.

Because thats how people behave in internet? 		2012-03-25 04:40:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I have started to get worried about those people which reviews his level with cursing Etc..
Like if a troll gets the idea "Hey! They are breaking the rules, lets mod them all!"
That would be a really unfortunate story and really make the community more empty.		2012-03-25 10:07:00

Author:
Seveni_7
Posts: 109

Because thats how people behave in internet?

Yup.. bullying is still bullying regardless of the medium. Sad really..		2012-03-25 13:30:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Well, I don't think now that they're going STRAIGHT downhill, but the level "quality" varies. There are more picks every week, and we never know how good they may be. So instead of going downhill, it's more like a roller coaster. Maybe we should focus more on the variety instead of worrying so much about one level that was a bit iffy to some people. Then again, there's that point I made earlier. What IF there are more levels like Lucky Charms? Will they share the same fate? That does provide some sort of reason to worry so much about this level, but I still don't think the picks are going downhill. We can't say that for sure, because everyone has their own opinion. Some may say it's getting so much better.2012-03-25 14:17:00

Author:
Sackpapoi
Posts: 1195

I wasn't talking JUST about the Lucky Charms level. But about you saying MM picks are getting bad overall. You don't need to get so angry. You don't expect me to go through all the pages and read every post, do you? I just read what I can and comment on what I think. "IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY." Including you? Isn't that why you started the topic in the first place? [QUOTE]To say that the MM picks levels aren't good?
Okay...I'll try to be civil. I'll try.
Not in any posts have I stated that any level Mm picked level is NOT GOOD. Rather, I have stated that many are EXCELLENT, some are VERY GOOD, and some are PRETTY GOOD, or OKAY (there may be synonyms for those words). There is no not good. I know you can't read all the posts of the entire thread, but don't make big assumptions like that when they are supported by nothing.

To say that the MM picks levels aren't good?
No. I don't think that the Mm picked levels are not good. Rather, I think that some of them might be under the standards of much of the non-forum community.		2012-03-25 15:31:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

I recently got MM picked, and there are some people that still can't wrap their heads around the reason why (Including myself)

Sure, I get lots of encouraging words and praise for my creation, but there are some rather odd people that still think that MM picks levels for there MM picks that are the best of the best. Need proof?

Read this review on my level by "SN8-M"

Proof that he stated this is in the LBP.me page...


"And again, a fantastic platformer with clever touches and a well designed atmosphere ... but is this really what is considered an Mm pick!?! No fault of the builder, as they did a good job, but there is no special WOW factor here - nothing about this goes beyond the norm of lbp2 construction or design. Look at Printz Diaries, or Starforce. THESE levels have a WOW to them ... this does not. Good level, but No Mm pick"

I respect this guy for the academic tone and his complements towards Me and Vinewood Swamp, but I don't really understand why he can't just understand that MM picks has, and always will be, regaurdless of the communities opinions, THE DEVELOPERS FAVORITE LEVELS. Jeez! It even says it under the "MM picks" Catagory of the LBP.me homepage! Gah.

I hope more levels by newer creators start to get MM picked. Early encouragement often leads to amazing things.

And I'm not biased either. My opinion hasn't changed since I obtained the MM pick. read my other posts before you snap at me.		2012-03-25 15:57:00

Author:
grayspence
Posts: 1990

I recently got MM picked, and there are some people that still can't wrap their heads around the reason why (Including myself)

Sure, I get lots of encouraging words and praise for my creation, but there are some rather odd people that still think that MM picks levels for there MM picks that are the best of the best. Need proof?

Read this review on my level by "SN8-M"

Proof that he stated this is in the LBP.me page...



I respect this guy for the academic tone and his complements towards Me and Vinewood Swamp, but I don't really understand why he can't just understand that MM picks has, and always will be, regaurdless of the communities opinions, THE DEVELOPERS FAVORITE LEVELS. Jeez! It even says it under the "MM picks" Catagory of the LBP.me homepage! Gah.

I hope more levels by newer creators start to get MM picked. Early encouragement often leads to amazing things.

And I'm not biased either. My opinion hasn't changed since I obtained the MM pick. read my other posts before you snap at me.


Yeah, I guess with MMPicks being given out more often, its probably expected for people to be more critical, especially if a few that aren't considered so great get through. But like you said, at least he was very civil.

Congrats on the MMPick. I was hoping Explorers might make the cut but guess not. Oh well.

The important thing is that recognition is being passed around. And as long as people can be respectful, being critically is ok by me, although, in the end, I don't really see the need to leave such reviews.

I think sometimes people forget its a game. 		2012-03-25 17:49:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

I actually quite relate to the OP as to how a few opinions on these touchy subjects lead to crazy wars and twisted words here. I mean, that's why I don't post much anymore. All I've ever done is to try to convince all of you to not focus entirely on these same well known creators. Somehow this ends up being me being jealous and hateful of these creators?.. I am truly sorry to anyone who has been legitimately offended by me saying... uh.. "you don't heart very much" or "hey, give others a chance to shine."

Anyways. I read up on some of the first posts and I don't know why I'm even going to try to make you guys see but here goes..



However, as for the overall standard being lower, I dunno. I think maybe the bar has been lowered a little, but I'm all for that. The level required for Picks initially was insane.

You mentioned MMs friends being the only ones being picked, and the idea of raising the bar for Picks again in the same post. Seems a little conflicting to me. The reason we see the same names so frequently is because they're already established creators working with other established creators to achieve even greater results. (Most of the time. Even non-partnership projects usually involve a bit of help/advice from your buddies. C'mon, don't lie.)
Raising the bar would just mean Picks became even less common, with the same names appearing all the time. StevenI's doing a great job I feel picking things more frequently.
I think I support your sentiments to a certain extent. I'm all for keeping the bar high, just not so high that only one MM Pick gets added every year or so.

I like the term "established creators" Osty. Sure sounds a lot better than well known, famous, popular, favored or elite. Which are all fairly synonymous but sounds a little nicer. Basically all those mean "creators most people already knows about" and is why I always felt like giving the multiple picks was somewhat redundant. People here defend the Mm picks by what they represent "What Mm likes or what is really really awesome & innovative" when I, and some other people focus more on what a Mm pick DOES which is "Gets that level a decent amount of plays (usually) and 'establishes' them as one of these creators to keep an eye on". Several people have asked me "Well did you know about so & so BEFORE they got picked?" and I respond with an honest "No, but that's all it took & now I will keep an eye one them & see their other stuff" and I do. I would encourage others to do so too, so as to not fill Mm picks with the same people redundantly. Well if I am to have a problem with that we have this..

Because Mm liked it... it's Mm picks... not super awesome level picks, personal opinions on quality are irrelevant, if you want quality look towards forum picks

Well... Taking a look at both LBPC spotlights & LBPlanetarium picks... They really aren't much different. It is often these same "established creators that most people already know about" are there too.
Ok... well what about contests!? Same people, same story.. And it is "wrong & hateful" of me to have these views on these TRUE trends. No, it's more like concern for the community since I know there are way more creators that should be "established" that should have exposure and I love the already established creators levels, I really do. I'm not going to sit there and hate on the "famous" creators levels or refuse to play them. That's ridiculous, immature and would keep me from some awesome levels lol.
So when Steveni started picking levels and I saw that he said, and is doing this...


The MmPicks have had quite a radical change recently and we're trying our best to feature new and talented creators every week!
As there are truly so many talented people out there that are still worthy of recognition and we would really like to give those awesome creators their chance to shine!
Which is why we now feature a good mixture of creators and level types every week!

So even if you don't agree with every single MmPick for the week...
Try coming back next Friday and we'll have a brand new batch of five MmPicks online and who knows?
You may even find one of your favourite creators featured!

I was ecstatic for the growth of the community & attention to new creators, and not even just new creators, but ones that have been here for awhile but only now do they matter and are getting exposure because of their Mm picks.

Thank you StevenI for your care for this community and desire to show everyone that there are tons of others out there, and here you guys thought I'd never be happy

I guess you could say I like the gadders that think like this and always have, and now that one of lbp's biggest issues is finally being acknowledged and resolved, there is no need from my extreme opinions & suggestions that get shot down as hate anyway.		2012-03-25 18:02:00

Author:
Dortr
Posts: 548

I actually really liked your level Gray. This thread is silly by the way.2012-03-25 18:13:00

Author:
BrosefJenkins
Posts: 87

I actually prefer the MM picks now. I'm happy that not all the levels look like they were professionally made, they're still good, but they aren't all made by these really amazing creators that have been making awesome levels since LBP1 first came out. StevenI is doing an amazing job with the MM picks! I just think that the older MM picks that were REALLY amazing, were a bit too amazing for me to enjoy playing.2012-03-25 18:22:00

Author:
TheMonkeyBlade
Posts: 687

Ok... well what about contests!? Same people, same story.. And it is "wrong & hateful" of me to have these views on these TRUE trends.

Well as member LBPC Contest Crew i don't jurge by names but how level is made ;p ofcorse thats my opinion and i got my trends and standards, but thats what it is with all jurges ;]		2012-03-25 20:33:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Wow spent 2 hours reading all these posts. Good points on both sides. Just about everything you could say has been said to death. But I know me personally, I never expected a MM pick. I was thrilled to get one, but, I also felt like I hadn't earned it. I know I can do much better than my MM pick level. I just havn't reached that potential. Somebody here said that opening the picks up to some levels that are hmmmmm....... questionable in quality can inspire their creators to do great things and I suppose this could be true, because that's how I felt. It may have the opposite effect too. Why try? Why try to make something totally out of this world if you got picked for something that is mediocre. For those that work hard on a project they may asks themselves the same thing. Why try If you can spend 3 days on a level and get a MM pick for it? I really respect Racingcreed for admitting he didn' feel like he should've been picked. After the euphoria of success wore off I felt the same way.

Bottom line is, I only ever wanted to get a MM pick becasue that's the only way I could get people to play my level(s). Play, Create, Share. The share part is tricky because getting some momentum going for yourself is a serious battle. Especially for somebody like me who is not really into all this Social Networking stuff. I had one goal when I started playing this game and that was to earn the respect of those creators that I admired. This is a kid's game, but the create mode is geared towards the more mature. Getting massive plays from a bunch of kids who do not understand the time, patience, intricacies, and imigination it takes to make something special sometimes leaves a creator unfullfilled. I'm just saying that the general recognition that comes from a MM pick isn't what its cracked up to be sometimes.

Something I need to try to remember and maybe you all should too is that this new way of MM picks has a long way to go. Remember the spotlight backlog? How many months did that take to catch back up to current levels? If StevenI is going back and reckognizing creator's levels that have long been overlooked. Everybody wanting a MM pick so bad had better just be patient. It might take quite awhile.

There might not be much that MM can do about the cool pages. But I know they can fix it so we don't have the same guys publishing the same levels over and over again and keeping them at or near the top. The cool pages needs a makeover those that exploit the bugs with the cool pages are........... *sigh* you all know this already.


I will leave with this final thing. I must admit that with these last 2 weeks worth of picks at first I was really dissapointed that My newest level Galaxy Ops didn't get picked and some of my friends levels as well. To see some of the levels that did get picked left me pretty confused. But It only took a few minutes before I said to myself. "I need to stop hating on these guys, it's only a game. MM or StevenI or Spaff or whoever must have liked it. Oh well, maybe next time" This is a good debate but just remember it's only a game and games should be fun. Happy Gadding everyone.		2012-03-26 01:55:00

Author:
Alley_Cat_8633
Posts: 108

I don't understand when people say that they don't like these newer MM picks because they don't have as much quality. It's not like the ones that do have a ton of "quality" aren't getting MM picked. In my opinion levels that have quality are the ones where the creator tried to make, and put effort into. When StevenI MM picks levels I think that everyone gets what they want, at least they should. I want levels like the ones that have been getting picked, and other people want levels that are like the older MM picks, which are still going to get picked, It's not like MM suddenly stopped liking them.2012-03-26 03:03:00

Author:
TheMonkeyBlade
Posts: 687

I was hoping Explorers might make the cut but guess not. Oh well.
We'll just all have to cross our fingers for the LBP2 Dream Catcher. MUST...NOT...GLITCH...INTO...LOCKED...LEVEL. Or, you may have heard of the glitch and taken down the level from your planet. I'm not sure.
You're probably one of the three people who really deserve an Mm pick in my opinion, with the two others being The_Hog_Flu and Mnniska.

But I know me personally, I never expected a MM pick. I was thrilled to get one, but, I also felt like I hadn't earned it.
Wha-wa-WHAAA??? I don't want to be a flatterer here, but your level COMPLETELY DESERVED the pick, in my opinion. It was so innovative in that it was actually a scary platformer. I seriously don't think I had so much adrenaline in a LBP2 level, ever. I remember playing it because of the Community Spotlights and thinking "Why isn't this Mm picked?" See, this was in the point of time where the Mm picks had stagnated, with WATCHMEN being the top one, and no new Mm picks for, like, a month or two? I though Mm had given up on the picks altogether, and was kinda depressed thinking your level would never get the attention it deserves. I think it shows that people who aren't even that established can make excellent levels. It's not just Comphermc, Poms, etc.

I must admit that with these last 2 weeks worth of picks at first I was really dissapointed that My newest level Galaxy Ops didn't get picked and some of my friends levels as well.
Well, you're honest. I hadn't played it yet, but I have enough creator faith that it's excellent.

Hmmm...am I getting off topic? I'm not sure, I am still talking about Mm picks, technically.		2012-03-26 03:53:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

We'll just all have to cross our fingers for the LBP2 Dream Catcher. MUST...NOT...GLITCH...INTO...LOCKED...LEVEL. Or, you may have heard of the glitch and taken down the level from your planet. I'm not sure.
You're probably one of the three people who really deserve an Mm pick in my opinion, with the two others being The_Hog_Flu and Mnniska.

Wha-wa-WHAAA??? I don't want to be a flatterer here, but your level COMPLETELY DESERVED the pick, in my opinion. It was so innovative in that it was actually a scary platformer. I seriously don't think I had so much adrenaline in a LBP2 level, ever. I remember playing it because of the Community Spotlights and thinking "Why isn't this Mm picked?" See, this was in the point of time where the Mm picks had stagnated, with WATCHMEN being the top one, and no new Mm picks for, like, a month or two? I though Mm had given up on the picks altogether, and was kinda depressed thinking your level would never get the attention it deserves. I think it shows that people who aren't even that established can make excellent levels. It's not just Comphermc, Poms, etc.

Well, you're honest. I hadn't played it yet, but I have enough creator faith that it's excellent.

Hmmm...am I getting off topic? I'm not sure, I am still talking about Mm picks, technically.

Thanks. It wouldn't do much good to glitch into the level, its not set up to play through. I appreciate though. I've been taking some time off lately. But will be back in about a week to work on some stuff.

Wish I had more time to work on everything.

I haven't played LBP in about a month, so look forward to getting back in and trying some of these MM Picks.

Like Alley said, good points on both sides. I think everyone just wants the community to be the best it can be. 		2012-03-26 06:08:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

here we are many pages into a thread that is completely undermining the point of MM picks. this and another thread (related to laughing at bad designers) is single-handedly creating entirely the wrong mindset for this community and the LBP community as a whole. from this point on, if a level does not meet some 'undefined' quality, the credit for being MM picked has well and truly been devalued. instead of a debate about which MM picked levels you like the best, we are being invited to discuss whether they should be MM picked at all... in other words we are being asked to judge them, not just play them.

i don't like this emerging mentality at all. people complain about trolls writing hurtful reviews or making personal comments in the review section of LBP2, and yet here we are pandering to those very people; those people that get off on hurting the feelings of others. i'm a strong willed individual but even i now find it difficult to play the MM picks without this thought process popping into my head, and i hate myself for it.

STOP complaining about the quality of 'some' MM picks and go back to just being glad that 'some' MM picks satisfied your personal tastes.

now can we please get back to supporting our fellow creators, no matter what their abilities		2012-03-26 10:00:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

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http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/images/smilies/bunchies.gif		2012-03-26 12:01:00

Author:
Spaff_Molecule
Posts: 421

I'm not quite sure what to make of that! 2012-03-26 12:11:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

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yeah, unfortunately it's still going...		2012-03-26 12:57:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

yeah, unfortunately it's still going...

Wonder if you could ride that thing if you had a saddle? 		2012-03-26 13:06:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

It's rather hypnotic isn't it?2012-03-26 13:18:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/images/smilies/bunchies.gif
Spaff, you broke my rules, specifically, the rule about g-going off t-topic...and n-not being s-stupid...
(Stares with a sort of awe. Ali_star is right. It is hypnotizing me...)
Yesss...Spafffffffffff. I...haaavvve beeen toooooo ciiiiiivil tooooooo thooooossssse peeeeeeople arrrrguing aggaainst meeee...I shaallllll beee mooorrree baarrrbaaarriicc...thhhhhhhe rullees areeee duuumbbb...
Everrryybboodddy whooo arrguees agaainst meeee issss a doooooooo-doooooooo heeeeaaad...Thaannkkss Spaaafff...I allwwaaays neeeedeed soooomme fiiightiiing spppiiirrrriiit...thoooose peeeople neeeeveeer cooonviinced byyyy reeeeasonn...
Ooooh, yeeeessss. I wiiiilllllll alllsooooo maaaaakeee a levvveeeel wheeeerrrre Spaaaffff shoveeeess hisssss heeeeaaad doooowwwn thhhhhe toiiiiilet aaand cliiiimbsss into the dryyyyeer...and Toooooom and Aaaaaliiiice geeeeet theeeee iiideeea fooooorr saaacckkbooooy frrrrrrooom hiiiimmm...looooooool...Spaaaafffff isssss a fiiiish...aaaandd SteeeveeenIIII issss a roooockiiing horrrse...itt'llll beee a hiiit onnn theeee coool paaaagesss...		2012-03-26 13:51:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

Wonder if you could ride that thing if you had a saddle?
I can ride it bare butt, no matter how wrong it might sound 		2012-03-26 14:51:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Wonder if you could ride that thing if you had a saddle?

http://i.imgur.com/bDZOi.jpg

They may take our Bunchies, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!		2012-03-26 14:55:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

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The only appropriate response to that would be this:

http://animationsa2z.com/attachments/Image/funny/funny52.gif

^^^ This is not off-topic, by the way. This is how I feel about StevenI getting hired at Mm and picking 5 levels a week.
Back in my day, there were NO mm picks, and you had to fight to the death to get recognized. Also, you had to walk to school five miles in the snow. Uphill. BOTH WAYS!

Now fight nice, guys. These more frequent mm picks are a step in the right direction.		2012-03-26 15:14:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Always love wtf llama, Dont see how it MM pick are going down hill iv not been playing but I know they been alot more so what to hate? and Mm Picks its up to them2012-03-26 15:40:00

Author:
jump_button
Posts: 1014

Danger Will Robinson, thread silliness exceeding maximum safe threshold!


from this point on, if a level does not meet some 'undefined' quality, the credit for being MM picked has well and truly been devalued. instead of a debate about which MM picked levels you like the best, we are being invited to discuss whether they should be MM picked at all... in other words we are being asked to judge them, not just play them.

This thread has changed nothing...

When you play a retro arcade game level, do you not compare it to the original? When you play a platforming level, do you not compare it to the story levels? Do you compare a creator's new level against their previous work to see if they are improving?

People judge and make comparisons all the time, that's how we experience things based on our own personal frame of reference. It provides a base-line by which we can assess how impressed or underwhelmed we were. When people say that a level was original or that the game play was unique, they've made a comparison against everything else they've played. This is ok, this is normal, this is all that comparing Mm Picks is.

Where the TC and others have erred is in thinking that others need to know about the internal assessments they have made. If someone is asking for feedback, by all means leave constructive criticism. If there was some aspect that you found enjoyable, be sure to comment on that. Assume un-solicited criticism is neither helpful or wanted, it's just a game.

It would be nice if Steven or whomever could make picks without worrying about being second guessed by everyone, that's not going to happen...but it shouldn't be a concern in determining what gets picked.		2012-03-26 16:24:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/images/smilies/bunchies.gif
Spaff, you broke my rules, specifically, the rule about g-going off t-topic...and n-not being s-stupid...
(Stares with a sort of awe. Ali_star is right. It is hypnotizing me...)
Yesss...Spafffffffffff. I...haaavvve beeen toooooo ciiiiiivil tooooooo thooooossssse peeeeeeople arrrrguing aggaainst meeee...I shaallllll beee mooorrree baarrrbaaarriicc...thhhhhhhe rullees areeee duuumbbb...
Everrryybboodddy whooo arrguees agaainst meeee issss a doooooooo-doooooooo heeeeaaad...Thaannkkss Spaaafff...I allwwaaays neeeedeed soooomme fiiightiiing spppiiirrrriiit...thoooose peeeople neeeeveeer cooonviinced byyyy reeeeasonn...
Ooooh, yeeeessss. I wiiiilllllll alllsooooo maaaaakeee a levvveeeel wheeeerrrre Spaaaffff shoveeeess hisssss heeeeaaad doooowwwn thhhhhe toiiiiilet aaand cliiiimbsss into the dryyyyeer...and Toooooom and Aaaaaliiiice geeeeet theeeee iiideeea fooooorr saaacckkbooooy frrrrrrooom hiiiimmm...looooooool...Spaaaafffff isssss a fiiiish...aaaandd SteeeveeenIIII issss a roooockiiing horrrse...itt'llll beee a hiiit onnn theeee coool paaaagesss...

Are you sure you not joking with all this mmpick stuff? 		2012-03-26 18:34:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

On to part 3 of the thread? I'm sure this can be dragged on for at least another week. 2012-03-26 18:57:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

ON TO PART 3!!! Or not...
Well, part 2, while short, was at least intelligent, but Spaff's cleverly placed post has spiraled us into part 3, which will probably be quite like the idiotic chaos of part 1. Well played, Spaff, well played.
I could try to get the thread back on topic, like last time, but then somebody will post nyan cat or epic sax guy or their skin rashes on their nipples or something. Eh...I'm to tired to be angry or glum. I can't really convince you people, and I can't really stop you people from going off-topic. I'm too tired with this thread.

You guys can do whatever you want. I'll nap. After all, it wasn't easy staying awake for 5 whole days to read your posts and reply to them. If you want me, I'll be at LittleBigPlanetarium. Sleeping.		2012-03-26 20:08:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928

ON TO PART 3!!! Or not...
Well, part 2, while short, was at least intelligent, but Spaff's cleverly placed post has spiraled us into part 3, which will probably be quite like the idiotic chaos of part 1. Well played, Spaff, well played.
I could try to get the thread back on topic, like last time, but then somebody will post nyan cat or epic sax guy or their skin rashes on their nipples or something. Eh...I'm to tired to be angry or glum. I can't really convince you people, and I can't really stop you people from going off-topic. I'm too tired with this thread.

You guys can do whatever you want. I'll nap. After all, it wasn't easy staying awake for 5 whole days to read your posts and reply to them. If you want me, I'll be at LittleBigPlanetarium. Sleeping.

I think the purpose of spaff's (and everyone else's) off topic posts were to make everyone realize that:
1. It's futile to argue something like this. Mm DOES listen to suggestions, but change takes time. They just hired StevenI, and I think we as a community should give him a chance to make Mm picks something great. He's only been doing this for a few weeks. Five picks a week means that picks won't be reserved to "big name creators" all the time, and it also means that, with more picks, we might not all agree with them all the time. But heck, that's the way it was before, wasn't it?

2. LBP is a lighthearted game. Everyone would do well to lighten up about these mm picks and just have a good time. There are people who play lbp and never get involved in the community aspect. They are perfectly happy with the way things are going. Ignorance is bliss? Maybe. Or maybe we should all take a page out of their books and lighten up a bit about all of this stuff.

Kalawishis, I'm sorry if I in any way helped in derailing the thread. I was just trying to inject some humor and wisdom into things. Don't be angry, glum or otherwise.

Just take it from someone who has been through hell and back because of this game: Getting upset about this sort of thing is NOT worth it in the long run.		2012-03-26 20:23:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Just take it from someone who has been through hell and back because of this game: Getting upset about this sort of thing is NOT worth it in the long run.

Exactly.. this is all supposed to be fun! Even the Grinch finally lightened up and enjoyed himself right? lol 		2012-03-26 20:26:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Exactly.. this is all supposed to be fun! Even the Grinch finally lightened up and enjoyed himself right? lol
Listen, how many times do I have to tell you!? Just because my heart grew a few sizes overnight doesn't mean I'm the grinch.		2012-03-26 20:29:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Listen, how many times do I have to tell you!? Just because my heart grew a few sizes overnight doesn't mean I'm the grinch.

Oh wow.. that was you? Great costume! 		2012-03-26 20:31:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

I hope Mm will pick my nose one day. There's some real hidden gems up there! 2012-03-26 22:30:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

On to part 3 of the thread? I'm sure this can be dragged on for at least another week.

LOL!!! for some reason i couldn't help reading that in a bored androids voice		2012-03-26 23:07:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

I just wanna prefix this by saying that I have no involvement whatsoever with anything to do with MM picks and all opinions shared here are that of myself etc. etc. blah de blah....


My point exactly. If another level like Quest for Lucky Charms gets picked, IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.

Interesting point, but kind of a sad defeatest mentality.... So I offer a more positive view, with examples from littlebighisgtory!!

So, MM Picks, causing a bit of a ruckus because they are given out too frequently and they are being given to the "wrong" levels. Lot's of valid points all over the place, but let's look from a different angle. This reminds me of the ruckus caused a good while back about a certain gaudy costume piece. namely, the "Competition Winning Crown"


*blingie* *blingie*
bling ...bling
blingie


Yes, that one. So, to summarise the history for those that don't know, weren't around at the time or don't generally concern themselves with such silliness, the crown started off as an uber-rare costume piece that was supposed to be given out to competition winners. That's why it's called the "Competition-Winning Crown". However, due to rarity, there was a perceived "value" to it - it was rare, therefore it had bragging rights.

But then everything changed (cue grainy black and white thunderstorm footage and clich? "oh noes" music)...

MM allowed more fansites to run their competitions, there were "too many" competitions going on, so "too many" crowns, many of those competitions were judged by community members who had "no right" to be judging and were "obviously biassed" and "just giving crowns to their friends". When the sackies came around MM gave crowns to Nominees - shock horror - it's a competition winning corwn, not a competition losing crown!!! They gave out arbitrary crowns, seemingly on a whim, but didn't give out crowns to people who "deserved them for reaching an arbitrary level of perceived awesome".


Basically, there were a lot of crowns, the importance of the crown was undermined and it was a big problem.... I'm pretty sure at one point the world was gonna end, or something... Anyway, the point is that that whole episode just blew over... It just went away.


The reason why it went away is the same reason this will go away. Because the "problem" is not how many of these things are given out, or for what, the problem stems from expectation, semantics and perceived value. There is currently a perceived value attached to the name "MM Picks" and this is what people expect to continue as the norm. The great thing about perception is that it's completely transient and insubstantial, and in this case, it's based upon norms and averages. The previous norm was that the MM Picks would come sporadically, with a low average frequency, and have this "exceptional" level of quality (as determined by the ACME trademarked qualitometer).

That's changed now, the timing is more consistent and the frequency is increased. More stuff is getting picked and some of it is "lower quality". But if this continues, then that becomes the norm. It becomes the expectation and after quite a short period of time, the expectation matches reality and everyone gets their knickers untwisted and forgets what the problem was in the first place. Or maybe not, but people's expectations come closer in line with the new reality and that makes things better.

So going back to the OPs point:

Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.

I don't expect those community members to have a sudden change of heart, but I expect them to have a slow and gradual change of heart, so there is not one, but two options here:

We Accept that Trolls run the interwebs and give into their abusive nature to protect a small number of creators
We ignore them on the basis that they will probably tire themselves out eventually and we can all start having a good time again


If we go for 1, we have an instant response, so it has appeal. If we go for 2, we change the semantics of "MM Pick", everything settles down over a time and everyone comes out better:

More levels are picked, so more people get picked and get exposure. There are mode levels to play from the picks list, so people can more easily find good stuff to play. Stuff is getting picked at regular intervals, so there is new picked content for peak times (the weekend). That's good. Long term, everybody wins. MM Picks becomes what it should be, a list of levels that MM have picked because they are probably worth checking out.

Yes, a couple of people have to put up with Trolls in the mean time and that is sad, it shouldn't be the case, but this is the Internet, and kind-heartedness is a rare commodity. It is a bit of a sacrifice, but if you let the trolls define the future everyone loses out.


And finally, I know my glimmering vision of the future glosses over the issue that "not every pick-worthy level gets picked", but there is no way around that, without frequent human sacrifices and incessant chanting, which is both messy, an awful lot of effort and creates far to much noise to be viable...		2012-03-26 23:10:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

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I saw it as my Caesar moment ...

edit: oh, and rtm223, that was brilliantly written		2012-03-26 23:13:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

(Wakes up from power nap.)


I just wanna prefix this by saying that I have no involvement whatsoever with anything to do with MM picks and all opinions shared here are that of myself etc. etc. blah de blah....

Originally Posted by Kalawishis
My point exactly. If another level like Quest for Lucky Charms gets picked, IT IS GOING TO BE BASHED ON BY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.
Interesting point, but kind of a sad defeatest mentality.... So I offer a more positive view, with examples from littlebighisgtory!!

So, MM Picks, causing a bit of a ruckus because they are given out too frequently and they are being given to the "wrong" levels. Lot's of valid points all over the place, but let's look from a different angle. This reminds me of the ruckus caused a good while back about a certain gaudy costume piece. namely, the "Competition Winning Crown"

*blingie* *blingie*
bling ...bling
blingie


Yes, that one. So, to summarise the history for those that don't know, weren't around at the time or don't generally concern themselves with such silliness, the crown started off as an uber-rare costume piece that was supposed to be given out to competition winners. That's why it's called the "Competition-Winning Crown". However, due to rarity, there was a perceived "value" to it - it was rare, therefore it had bragging rights.

But then everything changed (cue grainy black and white thunderstorm footage and clich? "oh noes" music)...

MM allowed more fansites to run their competitions, there were "too many" competitions going on, so "too many" crowns, many of those competitions were judged by community members who had "no right" to be judging and were "obviously biassed" and "just giving crowns to their friends". When the sackies came around MM gave crowns to Nominees - shock horror - it's a competition winning corwn, not a competition losing crown!!! They gave out arbitrary crowns, seemingly on a whim, but didn't give out crowns to people who "deserved them for reaching an arbitrary level of perceived awesome".


Basically, there were a lot of crowns, the importance of the crown was undermined and it was a big problem.... I'm pretty sure at one point the world was gonna end, or something... Anyway, the point is that that whole episode just blew over... It just went away.


The reason why it went away is the same reason this will go away. Because the "problem" is not how many of these things are given out, or for what, the problem stems from expectation, semantics and perceived value. There is currently a perceived value attached to the name "MM Picks" and this is what people expect to continue as the norm. The great thing about perception is that it's completely transient and insubstantial, and in this case, it's based upon norms and averages. The previous norm was that the MM Picks would come sporadically, with a low average frequency, and have this "exceptional" level of quality (as determined by the ACME trademarked qualitometer).

That's changed now, the timing is more consistent and the frequency is increased. More stuff is getting picked and some of it is "lower quality". But if this continues, then that becomes the norm. It becomes the expectation and after quite a short period of time, the expectation matches reality and everyone gets their knickers untwisted and forgets what the problem was in the first place. Or maybe not, but people's expectations come closer in line with the new reality and that makes things better.

So going back to the OPs point:
Originally Posted by Kalawishis
Since we don't expect those community members to suddenly have a change of heart, the only stop to this is to not pick to "pretty good" levels.
I don't expect those community members to have a sudden change of heart, but I expect them to have a slow and gradual change of heart, so there is not one, but two options here:
We Accept that Trolls run the interwebs and give into their abusive nature to protect a small number of creators
We ignore them on the basis that they will probably tire themselves out eventually and we can all start having a good time again

If we go for 1, we have an instant response, so it has appeal. If we go for 2, we change the semantics of "MM Pick", everything settles down over a time and everyone comes out better:

More levels are picked, so more people get picked and get exposure. There are mode levels to play from the picks list, so people can more easily find good stuff to play. Stuff is getting picked at regular intervals, so there is new picked content for peak times (the weekend). That's good. Long term, everybody wins. MM Picks becomes what it should be, a list of levels that MM have picked because they are probably worth checking out.

Yes, a couple of people have to put up with Trolls in the mean time and that is sad, it shouldn't be the case, but this is the Internet, and kind-heartedness is a rare commodity. It is a bit of a sacrifice, but if you let the trolls define the future everyone loses out.


And finally, I know my glimmering vision of the future glosses over the issue that "not every pick-worthy level gets picked", but there is no way around that, without frequent human sacrifices and incessant chanting, which is both messy, an awful lot of effort and creates far to much noise to be viable...
Oh god, I have to read all this? Eh. It's not much longer than the stuff I write.
So, rtm223, you have actually convinced me. All of your points were excellent, yes, but it was the crown history that really changed my beliefs. I had only discovered lbpcentral this year, and was quite oblivious to the current events of LBP1 when I was playing it, so I never really thought much about the crown thing. Well, now I know. I guess that people can accept Mm mixing the pretty good with the excellent, even though it may take some time and cause some blood shed. If I were more aware about the crown thing, I think I would have been upset about that; then, as time went by, I would see that there isn't really much to be upset about. I guess history can repeat. Why, if only somebody told me about this sooner! Yes, I know I sound extremely stupid, bear with me.

It was all the idiocy and hate, and the horrible "Mm picks what Mm likes," arguments all the time that had made me even more firm in my beliefs. I had started this thread, fresh from the bandwagon of all the others who were upset about Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms, thinking I could convince a lot of people and maybe influence Mm a bit. Every off-topic posts made me think, "these people, can't even discuss something without becoming off-topic", and making me even more firm. Every "Mm picks what Mm likes" argument made me think, "these people, they can't think of new arguments", making me yet even more firm. And as for the hate-let's just say that Antikris' post made my beliefs firmer than light matter glued to dark matter with an anti-gravity tweaker set to 100% dampening on it-in pause mode, and not even having exited my popit yet. Intelligence in part two and occasionally in part 1 only wavered my beliefs somewhat. Eventually, as I realized I couldn't really convince you guys, I stopped having so much energy with the thread. I gave up entirely at the WTF llama. I still believed, but I didn't believe I could get you to believe. Then rtm223 came along, and I-well his argument was impeccable. Amazing. He didn't say "Mm picks what Mm likes", once, in a thread where I think you people said it 50 times, and, he convinced me. Period. He probably had the best argument in the entire thread, but, again, it was the crown part that really convinced me. I thought that if only I had knowledge about the conflict with the crowns, there would be no thread. Well, this is just feeling pointless. All my points, arguments, beliefs, all in this thread, are now pretty darn pointless. This whole thread was pointless. I mean, I would still like it if Mm had quality control, but now, looking back, making an entire thread devoted to making Mm do this seemed a little silly.

Well, I am giving up on this thread, and devoting attention to my other thread, "LBP2: Advanced Edition for the PS4", which is completely devoid of emotion (except for maybe a trace of enthusiasm here and there), is about a topic many of you can post on without getting angry or off topic, and is a lot more interesting than this one. I will ask a moderator to destroy this thread, and if they can't do that, I'll just ask one to lock it.

One last thing. For all those who will probably think that I just made this thread as a means to get attention, or to get you all to fight; well I can't convince you otherwise, but I can tell you that you are wrong. Wrong, because I know personally firsthand that I did NOT make this thread because of that. How? Well, it's my thoughts, and I can be pretty darn sure about what I think. That is the truth.

Ahem:

"Mr./Mrs. Moderator, tear down this thread."

I'm also going to PM one, in case they don't see this.		2012-03-27 01:24:00

Author:
Kalawishis
Posts: 928


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