Archive: 15 posts

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A not so brief history of 3D Rotation. It was a year ago today that Fubalicious started the 3D Camera boom. And I intended to complete the 3D set, with a 3D Rotation level...but things went wrong and I started to give up a bit, so it became a tutorial level with a small room...that just so happened to be published today, so it was hardly meeting a deadline But some may find it useful. I'll put some pictures on soon. http://lbp.me/v/eh45ny This part is quite boring So, a YEAR ago, when I wrote:- "Turning Around In theory, turning around sounds easy. All you need to do is revolve the world around the player. The only way to truly do this is with rotators. You move over a rotator it turns the world. But in practice, you need alot of rotators and a lot of space. Because if you go to one side of the room, turn around, then go back to the other side and keep doing it...eventually the world hits the sides of Create Mode." It seemed the obvious answer. Just place rotaters on the floor, which activate when you move over them. This does not work! No matter where you place a rotater it will always move the whole structure from the middle. Now it was an actual problem, before it seemed a matter of time before everyone was making games in 3D, and games where you didn't have to just move side to side. There is no way of switching smoothly between cameras, it just results in the camera turning on it's side. I have seen this solved by a simple dropping of the lights...but that won't work midway through an FPS battle. But it didn't matter, because "when they fix the Local Space Glitch it will fix it"...they fixed it...it didn't work. Even Steve Big Guns' tour de force, M.E.R.D, relied on pre-recorded movements so the map didn't hit the sides. Then there was Evret's unbelievable way of triangulating your position and then somehow moving the world around you. I say "somehow", I don't have a clue how it works. Which is a problem when you're trying to write it down. It is just too good. It's logic is well above anything I could come up with. Which is the problem with it, I don't know how to make something if I don't completely understand every aspect. The next paragraph illustrates my stubbornness perfectly. At the time that Evret had released his own demo, I was trying to build my own technology. It was old-fashioned by comparison. It involved a whole back layer of crosses that interlocked with the second thin layer. The idea being you move over an area and it's cross would spawn, and as it spins the world moves around you. Then as you move on, that cross would be deleted and the next would spawn. It works...but after time it starts to destroy the interlocking parts attached to the second thin layer. At this point I was running out of ideas...that was more than 6 months ago. In that time I briefly tried to make it work with a fixed to the center camera like Evret's, but ran into problems. Most notably, Movers don't work with Followers, because Followers are classed as Movers...the reason I say this will become clear later. Now (if you've not fallen asleep), here's how to do it. I'm calling it Anchor Rotation. The key part of this tech being the Follower. It follows directly on from my earlier try, involving the interlocking crosses. I don't think it's a new find (although, I have searched high and low, without a single person explaining it), there were early levels last year where you couldn't move and rotate at the same time, that must of used a Followers. Followers on the ground work, but not at the same time as moving, because moving means deactivating the Follower to activate the Mover (otherwise it moves the whole map with you...and that's not good). But it locks on and the map rotates around it...so why does what it locks on to have to be the camera? Step 1 - Inside a Microchip, place a Tag Sensor linked to a Follower and a Emitter. I'll call this the Hotspot. Step 2 - Inside a Microchip, place a Tag Sensor (inverted) linked to a Destroyer, and a Tag. I'll call this the Anchor (You will need to pause the game, otherwise it will delete itself). Step 3 - Set the Follower (of the Hotspot) and the Tag (of the Anchor) to the same settings. Step 4 - Place a Tag on the part (e.g, the camera, the player) you want the map to revolve around and set both Tag Sensors to match it. I should say here that my camera isn't fixed to the center of the screen. It is actually moving...it doesn't work otherwise. So that does mean hitting the walls. I have it rigged so you hit X and it slowly takes you towards the middle. It was my plan to use this while the player is using a menu system. The player goes into the menu, while they're in there they are moving back to the middle. It take 14 seconds to move from the very corners to the middle, so it seems like it could work well. I did try to make this automatic, but the problem is I used Holo material to mark the walls, meaning the map was still moving when the Follower kicked in...this makes the map spin around. I'm sure this can be fixed. Step 5 - Place the Anchor chip on a piece of Holo material. Capture it and use it in the Emitter (Set to One Shot and infinite, emitting from the very center of the Emitter). Step 6 - Inside a Microchip, place an Advanced Rotator (also an Anti-Gravity Tweaker for stability) link it to your Controlinator. It's basically done. All you need to do is place the Hotspot chip all over your map and set the range of the Sensors to cover. Mine are set to 5. Place the third (Rotator) Microchip anywhere on the map. This is what happens. You move over an area, the Hotspot emits the Holo block, the Follower in the Hotspot "anchors" the map to this point. When you push Left or Right on the Right Stick (I presume that's what you attached the Rotator to) the map will now rotate around you, while at the same time allow you to move freely. When you leave the area the Anchor deletes itself. A word of warning though. While testing it, it worked well, and seemed like there was little that could go wrong. That was until I tried to actual make a map. Having all those Microchips a block apart stops the game in it's tracks with slowdown. And spacing them out, while stopping that, means less control. And then there's the dead spots between the sensors, which ruin it slightly for a split second. But I will probably end up using Impact Sensors and Holo material, to solve this problem. I have some ideas on how to improve the system, but I'm yet to test these ideas.

2012-03-01 23:30:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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if you add me i'm happy to try and explain my method to you, it's not as hard as it may seem. for me it seems much simpler than what you've described too, has less logic and doesnt have framerate issues or collide with edge of create.

2012-03-02 19:21:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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evret , please publish your method. I think that many people find it usefull and say "thanks" for it. From Russia With love, Domick12

2012-03-02 20:19:00 Author: Domik12 Posts: 838

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i have a copyable tech demo on my moon that was meant for people to learn from, although heaps of people thought it was a good idea to just republish it as is...... i suppose i should have expected that though

2012-03-02 21:09:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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i have a copyable tech demo on my moon that was meant for people to learn from, although heaps of people thought it was a good idea to just republish it as is...... i suppose i should have expected that though I looked at your demo.... didn't get it. Tell us! Please!

2012-03-04 20:24:00 Author: RibShark Posts: 83

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if you add me i'm happy to try and explain my method to you, it's not as hard as it may seem. for me it seems much simpler than what you've described too, has less logic and doesnt have framerate issues or collide with edge of create.It's alright I'm just being stupid, I've been looking into the workings of it and I think I pretty much understand it now Except the logic, but that's ok I know what it does and how it works to a point, but I can't visualise by looking at it how it works...so as long as I have it saved and all the copies in the world suddenly don't get deleted, I'll be ok Basically, the logic knows where the tags are and what position you are facing and uses the Mover to compensate for the Rotater moving from the middle And I have other plans that I'll get to soon...and then I'll change the OP...mostly because it's just me going on

2012-03-09 00:12:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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I juat had this crazy idea pop into my head. I'm sorry for reopening an old thread like this, but has anyone tried the level "WIP - FPS Sword" by WARLORD_EVIl? It obviously "turns" just a little bit, but enough for my crazy idea to work, if it works the way I think it does. I asked him recently and am awaiting a reply, but do any of you guys know his method, or can even hopefully show it? Ps: if you tell me off the bat it's a form of level rotation I'm going to have to scrap. So please inform. I'm currently attempting to work on such mechanics, I'm a baby at it, but I can almost get it to rotate without turning sometimes. If I just knew his method...

2012-03-19 02:03:00 Author: IIIDevoidIII Posts: 86

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That level allows you to turn slightly either way by rotating the camera, but the view also rolls as it does so, there is no way to do full rotation (smoothly) while turning the camera or swapping between several cameras.

2012-03-19 02:33:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Eureka! Can you do it with 4, 3D cameras? Let me explain the rundown, as what I thought not too long ago should give you smooth rotation without drastically spinning the level too hard. The other one failed miserably, sadly, the cameras were all out of whack, and it seemed right angle and that's it for places for it to be placed. But what if you rotate the level, slightly? About 90 degrees, to be exact. You see, if you have four 3D cameras, and then you turn, you could rotate the level about 90 degrees, then snap it back those ninety degrees when you switch to the next camera. Minimal level rotation, if it works. I'm going to have to come up worh some heavy logic for the rotator however, but I think I have an idea of what I'm to do. Sadly, I can't test my theorys now, as I need to go to school. But I'll post back my findings later... We need a breakthrough in this 3D camera cinematic. Ha! I'd even make the player wait as the level returned to the center of the map, if I have to. Dev.

2012-03-19 12:31:00 Author: IIIDevoidIII Posts: 86

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if your gonna rotate the level there is no need to switch cameras............ this is much easier than what you just described http://lbp.me/v/1g9hte

2012-03-19 13:00:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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if your gonna rotate the level there is no need to switch cameras............ this is much easier than what you just described http://lbp.me/v/1g9hte Can you please publish or just tell us how you managed to do that. I can't work it out by copying your paintball test.

2012-03-19 17:33:00 Author: RibShark Posts: 83

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Ah, I see. After the past 5-6 days of testing the camera, I suppose the only solution to making a smooth 3D gameplay camera is by rotating the level, and as this produces problems itself, I have gone about spawning in the level, tricky, but I'm sure it's going to work. I'm still going to have the same problem with tht you can't move while rotating, so my design won't be very ideal for action games. I'm going to play with it more in the next week. I'll see if I can't perfect it.

2012-03-19 20:07:00 Author: IIIDevoidIII Posts: 86

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I can't believe someone tried to pass Evret's tech as their own Fool! One question, Evret, what's the fastest you can move (not rotate) using your tech? And does it involve changing the size of the map?

2012-03-23 00:09:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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nah, just need to change the speed og the advanced mover on the player "clone" in the non rotating room, in dem bones i think it's only set to 6, although i think it would become unstable while moving and rotating if it is set too high. i'm just not sure how high would be too high

2012-03-23 07:22:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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6 is probably the highest then I'm getting too grand in my plans. I'm trying to make levels that are too big...and the only way of doing that is not moving and rotating at the same time, maybe the way forward for me

2012-03-25 21:52:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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