Archive: 19 posts

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ok, i've completed my basketball level. it's kinda similar to the one that's available on the game, with some extra features. one of them is this: there's a switch on the room, if a player pushes it, the ball is set on fire, and anyone who's holding it will be damaged (i wanted to be able to control that damage, any idea on how to do it?), but something's wrong. if a given player launches the ball to the basket, and, immediatly after that, somebody pulls the switch, the player who scores is the one who pulled the switch (even though no one was damaged by the fire), which is go******** wrong! how can i keep that from happening? one last question: how can i change how many points a player loses when he dies? thank you.

2012-02-25 22:23:00 Author: yodavid Posts: 50

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Signal ownership problem huh? Try this, on a ball grab sensor connected to set of set-reset switch (you cand info on them in LBPWiki) connected to tag, and make it the way that this tag triggers tha points, on basket side aside of tag sensor and point giver, put a tag that on the ball with reset of the set-reset. This way set-reset switch will emit last player who grabed the ball ownership signal and give points to him. Other solution is use of sackbots insted of sackboys and trigger score inside them giver with battery inside microship (this neutralize player ownership from signal and owner of sackbot takesover) to player that you want to give a score.

2012-02-26 00:19:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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No offense shadowriver, but it is really hard to follow, even if you just talk about set-resets and tags. I tried to read multiple times and still don't get what you mean. But if you need a health meter system to count damage, you have to use sackbots, which then makes the whole thing more complicated. But I guess that's not what you meant, you just want to kill the player holding the ball. Setting the ball on fire should do it, though it might just make the player drop it.

2012-02-26 16:05:00 Author: Unknown User

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ehhh i guess i will make another video tutorial then but tommorow

2012-02-26 20:23:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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yeah, i had some hard time trying to understand you, dude. i'm gonna tell you what i did on the ball there is a grab sensor connected to the set of a counter (that goes up to 1), the counter output is connected to a tag. on the basket, there is a sensor for that tag. its output is connected to the score giver. on the reset part of the counter, it's connected a tag sensor. the tag of that color is on the basket as well. the result was not what i expected. player 1 grabs the ball and releases it on the ground. player 2 grabs it and throw on the basket. player 1 scores =( the thing is, i have no idea why the ownership is given to someone who grabs the switch that puts fire on the ball! it makes no sense! maybe because there is a grab sensor also on that switch? Pivott, i placed some spikes on my level. players eventually throw one another on them. How can i make so the thrower earns points, instead of the victim losing points? do i have to use sackbots also? one last thing, but i think i kinda know the answer, i think i would have to use controllinators. Can i have a grabinator AND a creatinator at the same time, and use each one with a different button? thank you guys. i'll show you guys my level when it's finished. i'm enjoying it with some friends, despite this bug.

2012-02-27 05:51:00 Author: yodavid Posts: 50

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Shadowrivers method is simple enough but I see what Pivottt means. Either way, a video would be a really good idea as this is something that seems to come up a lot. You could also put it in the LittleBigPlanet tutorials thread in Tutorials so others not following the thread can view it as even I have been asked to show a solution before. Albeit they didn't want to kill the other player but make him drop the ball. Also, fire might not kill them but Electric might??? Not sure. As Shadowriver said, I think sackthing will just let go or get hit once and let go. Idk...

2012-02-27 09:36:00 Author: LittleBigSnooth Posts: 454

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Signal ownership problem huh? Try this, on a ball grab sensor connected to set of set-reset switch (you cand info on them in LBPWiki) connected to tag, and make it the way that this tag triggers tha points, on basket side aside of tag sensor and point giver, put a tag that on the ball with reset of the set-reset. This way set-reset switch will emit last player who grabed the ball ownership signal and give points to him. Other solution is use of sackbots insted of sackboys and trigger score inside them giver with battery inside microship (this neutralize player ownership from signal and owner of sackbot takesover) to player that you want to give a score. I believe what he is saying is you have a signal owner ship problem. this is an aspect of the engine that defines which player has triggered the component that emits the signal. If not controlled correctly in multi-player games points will be given to the wrong players and whatnot. For example, if a tag is constantly on/has not be 'reset' to a neutral state, it will retain the first player to touch it's ownership data, so if another player, for instance, throws said tag into the range of a sensor, it will award the points to the player qualified as the owner and not the player that actually threw the ball. It's been a while so I may be a bit wrong with that to be honest, I'm not sure how signal ownership propagation treats tags on objects with no direct signal feed going into them (simply a tag on its own). Ownership may be updated each time a new player grabs the object the tag is attached to. I couldn't say right now for sure, but for the sake of this post I'll carry on presuming the circumstance is relevant to being solved with what Shadowriver described, which is as follows: what he described is a way to ensure Signal ownership is reset every time points are given by using the set-reset switch, which is basically a counter set to 1 that is 'set' when the input is triggered, and 'reset' when whatever is plugged into the reset switch is triggered. What he proposed is having a tag plugged into a sensor on the ball wherein the sensor attached to the tag on the ball, would look for a tag on the hoop, triggering the set-reset switch on, turning the tag on that would transfer the signal ownership to the score giver, which would be looking for that tag. There would also be another tag in the same place as the score giver that would trigger a sensor plugged into the 'reset' switch, turning off the tag on the ball, re-setting ownership data. The problem is as far as i can tell, ownership issues would still cause problems in regard to the ball being passed around before another score is given. Of course I could be wrong as I've not played in a while and all this is from pretty hazy long-term memory. To solve this hypothetical issue I would attached a one shot to pulse the tag that activates the score giver at each 'grab' of the ball via a grab switch, so the ownership data is cleared and instantly re-instated properly each time the ball is grabbed. Of course, this could be drastically wrong so take it with a pinch of salt. I was simply attempting to shed light on what Shadowriver posted.

2012-02-27 13:29:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Thanks, Epicurean Dreamer Sorry i won't able to do video tutorial today, my brother came here to sleep >.< so tommorow, i do it whatever you solve it or not, since it's interesting topic that not much people talk about

2012-02-28 00:13:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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if a tag is constantly on/has not be 'reset' to a neutral state, it will retain the first player to touch it's ownership data That's not true, I'm sorry. Tags behave just like wires; the only differences are that it's wireless and that the sensor can detect its distance instead of its analogue value. The problem is the counter. The 1-shot counter remembers the ownership of the one who activates it - I guess it would mean a 10-shot counter would have the ownership of the one who performs the 10th activation, just like the last man to hit gets the xp in lots of games). Instead of using a 1-shot counter, I guess you should use a OR gate. Wire the OR gate's output into its second input, and wire it to the tag - no counter used. This way, the OR gate will keep looping the signal back into itself, remembering the signal of the player which held it. And a nice behavior about the OR gate is that it gives priority to the ownership of the first input. Just wire the grab switch to the first input of the OR gate and any new ownership will replace the current one. Just make sure that the ball can't bounce in-out-in the basket, 'cause there's no reset on my setup. Unless you just set the chip off for a short while. For the fire, just wire the switch to a different tag, and this tag to the ball to a danger tweaker. That won't affect at all the signal ownership. To prevent players from losing points from while getting killed - you can't. Killing sackbots, however, doesn't cost points to the driver. Just make each player enter take a seat on a hologram block which follows the bot of the given tag. Now you'll need to modify the signal ownership system for this, as I'm not sure the grab switch will detect the ownership through a sackbot. If it doesn't work, you'll have to use AND gates to combine the signal with the one coming from a controlinator's active output. To make a player come back to life, just emmit another sackbot of the same tag, the hologram follower will follow it and you will be able to control it. Now if you have no idea about how to set up a sackbot, you should take a look at th Creator's Toolkit (http://lbp.me/v/8s5ec2). We/they have loads of things including sackbot logic.

2012-02-28 00:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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gives priority to the ownership of the first input. Thanks Pivottt! I knew something wasn't right but I couldn't dig up quite the right bit of brain there and seemed to have filled in the gaps on what I couldn't remember properly. (I did mention I may be wrong so no harm done I suppose). So am I right in thinking the actual problem with multiplayer score giving is unless the logic has ownership data the score giver will drop points into a generic bias (or?...[point expansion request]). Presuming so, the problem being in this scenario that as no one would be currently holding the ball as it went through the hoop it would follow this rule. Where the OR gate feedback loop / grab switch combo would sample ownership data per player interaction, which is different from using a counter in the important manner that it: gives priority to the ownership of the first input.whereas a counter will remember and store whomever activated the counter. I see the fundamental difference then, the second input of the OR gate, along with its bias rule, is pretty much the perfect tool for this kind of thing! Where the counter lacks a second input and would require additional logic to set-reset its ownership data through the same line. Maybe Shadowriver was actually referring too an OR gate set-reset switch as it's essentially the same function (set-reset), though I made an error by referring the counter. Either way I understand this quite a bit more now after this, presuming my guesses are accurate. Could I be taught a little more about the exact nature of what happens when logic lacks ownership data and score givers are triggered, is this possible or will there always be some form of arbitrary interaction prior to the logic triggering? i.e. Is the score allocation error down to confused ownership data (sensitive to the point at which the data is stored ~ counter vs OR gate) or a simple lack there-of? sorry for the rant, I have my thinking hat on

2012-02-28 01:21:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Yes ownership goes wireless too

2012-02-28 03:04:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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So, shadowriver, is there a way to prevent it?

2012-02-28 21:13:00 Author: yodavid Posts: 50

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Well, I can see at least 3 ways of preventing it. 1) Use a physical logic piece - boooo 2) Make the signal trigger a chip on which you place a battery, and use the battery's signal - though it will cause a 1-frame delay and lose the analogue value. 3) Make the signal trigger a sequencer set to position and place a battery on the sequencer - though it will cause a 1-frame delay and lose the digital value. But a score giver set to one player only will show the points in black to show that there was no ownership. No points are actually given.

2012-02-28 23:27:00 Author: Unknown User

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sorry, i'm kinda new to this as you can see. What exactly do you mean by physical logic? which device are you reffering to? (i tried the expression on lbpwiki and found no article about it.)

2012-02-29 00:28:00 Author: yodavid Posts: 50

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He refereing to LBP1 logic Sorry i wont be bal to do tutorial today again ^^' forgot to charge camera.... but i got ready basket for it ;]

2012-02-29 02:35:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Sorry again ^^' my servent monkey assistance wont be online ;p i need him for demo obviesly i dont have 2nd controller, if he wont be online i will do with osmeone else

2012-02-29 19:51:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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It seems i was wrong.... i forgot about sitation one player exchanges the ball ;p so i figure other method with use of selector so here tutorial: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=68357-How-to-tame-the-wildest-beast-of-LBP2-Logic-(aka-Signal-Object-ownership) I hope it helps

2012-03-02 02:43:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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thank you very much, dude! i will put it to work properly, now =)

2012-03-02 03:29:00 Author: yodavid Posts: 50

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No problem ^^ i learn myself it more about it while making the tutorial

2012-03-02 04:01:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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