Archive: 25 posts

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im trying to bulid a rocket but i have absolutely no control over it

2012-01-08 02:26:00 Author: Unknown User

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I wouldn't use thrusters, they seem to be too random. To make the object move you should use the different kinds of movers you have at your disposal. They offer a much more precise control. Build custom thrusters for the rocket to make it look a bit better.

2012-01-08 02:41:00 Author: DreJ1212 Posts: 240

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So do you want it to be moved by the rockets? Or can it be moved by movers? Because using a rocket is much harder than using it for just an accessory. I would suggest using a controlinator with a mover on it. Then wire the sticks into the mover. If you want some basic tutorials on how to make useful logic components, you can search LB2-turials on YouTube, or find links on the thread found here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=51232-LBP2-Torials-Video-Tutorials-by-comphermc). /sniped -_-"

2012-01-08 02:42:00 Author: Speedynutty68 Posts: 1614

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Yes, rockets suck Lol you can use them and use a controllinator routed to a rotator to control the direction it goes with say the left or right stick if you want, that is probably exactly what i think you want.

2012-01-08 02:54:00 Author: Tyranny68 Posts: 390

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Thrusters are probably, with a doubt, the most un-reliable mover in both LBP1 and 2. I'd recommend using movers and a gyroscope with the thrusters as props. Nobody will notice, and you can continue to take over LBP! (Joke).

2012-01-08 12:48:00 Author: Philosopher Posts: 120

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You will have to conduct a number of simulations with your current rig to see what works. The three primary ways I can think of to control the trajectory of a rocket in LBP are: 1. Angling the rocket 2. Moving mass on the rocket 3. Using side-thrusters My design philosophy would be to treat whatever system controls the rocket as suspension on a car. You want the system to do the work for you, not to have direct control over it. People made extremely accurate and small rockets in LBP1 that could track targets and things, so it's not impossible.

2012-01-08 18:14:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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People made extremely accurate and small rockets in LBP1 that could track targets and things, so it's not impossible. Yes, but with all the new gadgets in LBP2 why waste your time? Movers are far, far more reliable.

2012-01-08 22:06:00 Author: Philosopher Posts: 120

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I made a rocket sled that only used thrusters. In addition I set up smaller reverse rockets to stop my rocket sled on a dime...exactly 1/4mi....check it out "RSTS". http://lbp.me/v/qp2fkp Pure physics were used...no pistons, movers etc were used...only thrusters.

2012-01-09 00:13:00 Author: sascha_winter Posts: 163

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I can add one more thing to all this. Please pay attention: First, you need one of these: it is a Greater than Zero Gate (made with a Sequencer set to positional and a Battery inside it. The sequencer is inside a chip, like shown in the photo: http://ie.lbp.me/img/ft/44e28fa6ddd5f7627735f6b045a3ae760193092d.jpg Use 2 Greater than Zero Gates this way: wire each of the Left Stick's outputs (in case that you use this stick to control the rocket) to the >0 gates. Wire the >0 gates' outputs to a NOR gate (an inverted OR gate). Wire the NOR gate's output to a Gyroscope. With this system, if you are not turning the rocket, Gyroscope will be activated, giving stability to the rocket. This is supposing that you use both axis of the left stick to manage it. In case you use only the Left/right axis, 1 only >0 gate connected to a NOT gate, and the NOT gate connected to the Gyroscope will be enough EDIT: I'll probably edit this post tomorrow with 2 photos showing the circuits.

2012-01-09 08:01:00 Author: SebasSBM Posts: 159

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http://ie.lbp.me/img/ft/44e28fa6ddd5f7627735f6b045a3ae760193092d.jpg I'm sorry... But those pictures on the chips just look wrong...

2012-01-09 23:48:00 Author: Speedynutty68 Posts: 1614

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Yes, but with all the new gadgets in LBP2 why waste your time? Movers are far, far more reliable. That's not what the OP asked for, and figuring out how something works is hardly a waste of time. With this system, if you are not turning the rocket, Gyroscope will be activated, giving stability to the rocket. That would only reorientate the rocket to whichever way the gyroscope was pointing. How are you mounting the gyroscope on the rocket? What is your reasoning behind the >0 sequencer? You need only set the input action for both the rocket and gyroscope to on/off to remove the analogue component from the signal. All that sequencer otherwise does is eliminate the deadzone the stick would otherwise have, so I don't understand why it's necessary.

2012-01-10 11:33:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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You can always use the thrusters for asthetic effects, and make the rest with rotaters and movers.

2012-01-10 12:38:00 Author: lark98-2 Posts: 116

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That's not what the OP asked for, and figuring out how something works is hardly a waste of time. That would only reorientate the rocket to whichever way the gyroscope was pointing. How are you mounting the gyroscope on the rocket? What is your reasoning behind the >0 sequencer? You need only set the input action for both the rocket and gyroscope to on/off to remove the analogue component from the signal. All that sequencer otherwise does is eliminate the deadzone the stick would otherwise have, so I don't understand why it's necessary. Sorry I thought Gyroscope had also the setting Local Space my fault. Anyway, the Sequencer is set to POSITIONAL (this means it's behaviour is NOT like a normal sequencer). It will give signal only if analog value is NOT 0%!! If analogue value is 0.0000000000000001% then output=ON! I've found a component that will do what I expected instead of the gyroscope: a rotator set to speed 0, acceleration 100% and deceleration 100%. Here are the pics I picked for this yesterday: In case you need only Left/right signal for controlling the rocket direction, use this system (rotator set as I said before instead of the gyroscope) http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/7c630eeaeee6663af0e2c0aab7f756e8b9c7f115.jpg In case you use both axis of the joystick for controlling the rocket direction, use this system (rotator set as I said before instead of the gyroscope) http://i3.lbp.me/img/ft/b43f864607f288d487a29e692a8e774b9d6a9cbc.jpg My apologies for my mistake, but this system will give stability. Check it out. Anyway, if you are gonna use a rotator for the rocket direction, this system is not appropiate. If that's the case, It would be better to use a rotator set to Speed scale (In case you wanted to use only Left/Right axis of the joystick to turn the rocket), or a Joystick Rotator (In case you wanted to use both axis of the stick). But, if you want to direct it only with thrusters, my system will work well. Supposing you wanted to use 2 thrusters to make the rocket rotating, you can set them to Force Scale, to make them sensitive to analog stick's strenght. That's why I consider >0 gate necessary: if you want a rocket to be controlled accurately by the joystick, it is necessary to activate this stability system only if you are NOT turning the rocket (a 15% signal is more or less the minimum signal given by an analogic joystick. So, if >0 gate is OFF, the player is not using the joystick for sure. EDIT: I'm so sorry... I don't know how could I be so wrong about the Gyroscope.

2012-01-10 17:28:00 Author: SebasSBM Posts: 159

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Oh, I see. You thought gyroscopes could freeze the rotation to the current position! Actually, it would be possible, though you would have to test the position with angle sensors first to know which gyroscope activate ^^ The >0 chip should be called Different than 0, because negative signals also activate it. I told it to the creator's toolkit team more than once, they never changed it.

2012-01-10 22:18:00 Author: Unknown User

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you can freeze rotation with a basic rotator set to 0 speed and full dampening/deceleration

2012-01-11 10:19:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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The >0 chip should be called Different than 0, because negative signals also activate it. I told it to the creator's toolkit team more than once, they never changed it. in lbp 2 any negative signal is just as useful/powerful as it's positive counterpart, therefore any negative signal should still be considered greater than zero (>0) also note that >0 does not include a sign to say it is only positive nor only negative.

2012-01-11 14:19:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Oh, I see. You thought gyroscopes could freeze the rotation to the current position! Actually, it would be possible, though you would have to test the position with angle sensors first to know which gyroscope activate ^^ The >0 chip should be called Different than 0, because negative signals also activate it. I told it to the creator's toolkit team more than once, they never changed it. That's right. Negative signals also activate the >0 gate. It shouldn't be called like that... anyway, the symbol >0 is so cute ^^ you can freeze rotation with a basic rotator set to 0 speed and full dampening/deceleration That's what I meant. Thanks for specifying it was a basic rotator. By the way, you also participated in the Creators Toolkit, am I wrong? Both of you did. Thanks to the Teleport chip, Analogic Handlers' category and the 1 point Giver, I could improve even more my logic skills, back-engineering some of that tools. Thanks a lot. EDIT: in lbp 2 any negative signal is just as useful/powerful as it's positive counterpart, therefore any negative signal should still be considered greater than zero (>0) also note that >0 does not include a sign to say it is only positive nor only negative. Well, we can consider it this way.

2012-01-11 15:46:00 Author: SebasSBM Posts: 159

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Anyway, the Sequencer is set to POSITIONAL (this means it's behaviour is NOT like a normal sequencer). It will give signal only if analog value is NOT 0%!! If analogue value is 0.0000000000000001% then output=ON! (...) Anyway, if you are gonna use a rotator for the rocket direction, this system is not appropiate. If that's the case, It would be better to use a rotator set to Speed scale (In case you wanted to use only Left/Right axis of the joystick to turn the rocket), or a Joystick Rotator (In case you wanted to use both axis of the stick). But, if you want to direct it only with thrusters, my system will work well. Supposing you wanted to use 2 thrusters to make the rocket rotating, you can set them to Force Scale, to make them sensitive to analog stick's strenght. That's why I consider >0 gate necessary: if you want a rocket to be controlled accurately by the joystick, it is necessary to activate this stability system only if you are NOT turning the rocket (a 15% signal is more or less the minimum signal given by an analogic joystick. So, if >0 gate is OFF, the player is not using the joystick for sure. Oh, it would have been quicker just to say your >0 sequencer is only appropriate if the steering mechanic uses an analogue signal. That's what left me confused, since it otherwise makes no difference other than the deadzone of the stick if all input actions are set to on/off. The >0 chip should be called Different than 0, because negative signals also activate it. I guess the correct notation would be something like !=0 or |n|>0? Anyway, I didn't know positional sequencers took analogue signals as unsigned, interesting.

2012-01-11 20:03:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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Oh, it would have been quicker just to say your >0 sequencer is only appropriate if the steering mechanic uses an analogue signal. That's what left me confused, since it otherwise makes no difference other than the deadzone of the stick if all input actions are set to on/off. I'm not that good explaining things, after all

2012-01-12 01:23:00 Author: SebasSBM Posts: 159

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those 'Greater than Zero Gates' are those DLC? i dont have those..

2012-01-26 18:10:00 Author: Unknown User

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those 'Greater than Zero Gates' are those DLC? i dont have those.. No, they're chips that people have built.

2012-01-26 18:43:00 Author: Philosopher Posts: 120

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Just an fyi here, a >0 sequencer will change it's minimum value detection depending on the length of the sequencer. Eg: A 2 segment sequencer with a battery will NOT detect values smaller than ~0.03% (tried 0.3/100.0 and didn't detect). Increasing the length of the sequencer though will solve this. I always used to make my sequencers as small as possible just to save space. Turns out this isn't ideal. Also, the chip the mention is just a premade version of a positional sequencer with a battery covering its entire length. Wire inputs in/out of the MC allow you to just place the chip and make connections to/from that.

2012-01-26 19:36:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136

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A 2 segment sequencer with a battery will NOT detect values smaller than ~0.03% (tried 0.3/100.0 and didn't detect). Increasing the length of the sequencer though will solve this. That's right. Anyway, the minimum value generated by an analogic joystick is 15% more or less. So, the Standard Greater Than Zero will be enough.

2012-02-01 17:56:00 Author: SebasSBM Posts: 159

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i just want to point out that with the angle, speed and rotation sensors it is possible to have full, responsive control over a vehicle that only uses rockets (no movers/gyros/rotators etc) i've got a few different working versions that i came up with after i first seen this thread, all of which use 3 rockets and a whole heap of logic to control all movement and it even auto levels if your not pressing left or right on analog stick (tilt works similar to gyro method - the more u push the stick, the more it tilts etc).

2012-02-02 07:05:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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i just want to point out that with the angle, speed and rotation sensors it is possible to have full, responsive control over a vehicle that only uses rockets (no movers/gyros/rotators etc) i've got a few different working versions that i came up with after i first seen this thread, all of which use 3 rockets and a whole heap of logic to control all movement and it even auto levels if your not pressing left or right on analog stick (tilt works similar to gyro method - the more u push the stick, the more it tilts etc). Share the knowledge bro... : P

2012-02-02 15:21:00 Author: zupaton Posts: 167

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