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[LBP2] Suggestions

Additional tweaks & new tools (9/8/12)

Archive: 38 posts

Rather than adding new tools and chips to the tools bag. There could be a few simple tweaks added to the functions of certain existing tools that would greatly help with a number of creations. Also a list of a few tweaker & sensors that would open up new possibilities and/or make things a bit easier.
These could apply to both lbp2 & lbpv.

Materials (8/18/12)
-Adjust color of any material. I noticed you could do this in the lbpk beta. I didn't actually try with every material.. but it seemed to work for most. This would just add a hue of your setting to the color of the material.

Decorations (8/18/12)
-Same as materials with the color setting. I'd imagine a complete re-coloring of decos & materials wouldn't be as practical as simply adding a hue to the already colored material or decoration. This means that it would be pretty much useless on any black decos and materials but extremely useful for any lightly colored or white decos and materials.

Sackbots:
-Ability to invert sackbots with controls set to the appropriate inversion. (This would put all right handed costume pieces in the left hand/right side of the screen. That would help significantly with melee weapon animations)

-Invincibility to all lethal objects, spikes and being squished.

-Ability to swim and use all power ups IF remote controlled by a controlinator. (It seems that the reasons for disabling the feature had more to do with AI sackbots than player controlled ones, but I could be completely wrong).

(6/30/12)-Ability to disable a sackbots grabbing

-Ability to put tags or chips on any part of the sackbots body. This should allow for object tracking of a sackbots hands, feet, head etc. That would help in very interesting ways. It would make imitating handheld objects look a bit better and also make for great costume props for sackbots.

-Z axis sackbot (top down) The ability to have a controllable sackbot in a top down perspective with it's own movement animations. Just a sackbot turned 90 degrees.. with maybe inputs for their walking animations and the normal remote controlled inputs for their head and arms. I'd imagine that this sackbot would take up 2 layers of space, if it kept it's proportional size. If it was smaller, perhaps it could have a 1 layer size?
All costumes and animations would be the best benefit of this. It would open up many more options for scenes in films, as well as a 3D roaming Sackperson. If paired with some sort of fixed angle camera would allow for over the shoulder, 1st person & 3rd person views of an animated sackbot. *Still within the 3 playable layers..

-Forwards, backwards & (away from screen) facing sackbots. When editing a sackbot or customizing a costume, we have that option to "rotate" the sackbot to those angles. Imagine if we could keep those angles set, and apply them to the logic within the sackbot. This could also make sackbots that "walk sideways" in films look a bit better.

(6/30/12)-Access to all sackbot animations. Sackpeople and bots have their own little animations built into them for all sorts of things. Being slapped, falling asleep, sitting down, touching fire, the electrocution animation and swimming animations. It would be very nice to have more flexibility/non lethal aspects of those animations in the form of sackbot brains or maybe sequenced logic pieces.

(6/30/12)-Additional Sackbot Animation Styles. These are a few more animation styles (within sackbot brains) that could come in handy in a number of ways. Listed in groups of 4 for the respective emotes. A few of these can already be performed by wiring L2, R2, the right & left stick and the six axis or recording them, but preset animations within sackbot brains like the story character emote animations would be much simpler and look a bit more fluid.

-"Greetings Animations" Wave, Bow, Salute & Kneel

-"Fighting Animations" Punch, Kick, Headbutt & Chop

-LBP PSP animations could also be implemented in this fashion.

-A bit more control of the animations would be nice too, like animation speed, whether they are facing left or right and the ability to perform animations in the air.

-Attracto-o response tweak. (8/18/12)
Ability or tweaker to control whether or not a sackbot will respond to attract-o gel or materials with the attract-o effect set on. This way you could make certain sackbots immune to the effect while others are not.

Player sensors:
-Detected by all or 1-4

Anti-Gravity tweaker:
-Buoyancy tweak (allowing a manual adjustment for how and object responds to water) Thanks Osty (I could actually see this as a possible tweak for the material tweaker instead or as well as the antigrav.)

Impact sensors:

-Impacted by sackbot (All)

-Impacted by player (All or players 1-4)

-There seem to be several options for giving impact sensors an analog output. I can think of 3 separate uses.
1. Impact output giving an anlog signal based on weight.

2. An analog signal from the sensor outputting how much of the object is impacted. This, of course, would only be applicable if the object with the sensor was holo or sticker panel and would give a signal based on how much the object is impacted. if the holo is completely impacted (covered entirely by another) it would output 100%. If it was only impacted halfway, it would output 50%. I could see this being hard to implement if there isn't that precise of collision detection built into lbps physics mechanics though.

3. Transfer of analog signal through impacts. Tags can send analog signal wirelessly. So I think an interesting use of impact object with a tag would be to transfer the analog signal of the tag through the impact sensors output, but this would just be reducing steps that can give the same effect though. (Impact sensor of tag turns on chip with a battery giving analog signal) *This would allow 1 tagged impact sensor to respond to all signal values 1-100% of that tag instead of multiple unique named tags & their respective sensors.

Followers:

-Follow players 1-4

Score Givers:
Adjustable trigger for scaling score. As Osty said, we only have a timed option for score scaling. A scaled by activation or maybe even a scaled by proximity(?) would be a nice inclusion. I personally like the multiplier option that we have for similar results but the fact that they didn't have a multiplier option from the get go was kinda weird..

Emitters:
-Accuracy tweak that behaves similarly to the accuracy tweak of creatinators

Destroyers:
-Destroy connected. "Destroy rigid connections" will destroy all that is glued to the object, which means you must still have a separate destroyer for anything connected by string, rods, bolts, etc. *while also being very careful which is destroyed first. This option would also destroy objects connected with connectors.

*Note: Strangely enough, this is how a "hold triangle delete" in create mode works. It will destroy objects connected with connectors..

-Destroy effects gravity. When an object is destroyed certain ways (fall apart, splat) gravity responds to the animation even if the object had anti-grav.. or was something like holo and wasn't supposed to have gravity anyway.. (dead objects) In some cases it would be nice disable those gravitational effects.

Game camera:
-Full local space support. They fixed local space for cameras flat on objects. it works correctly now with a revolving-object camera but it does NOT work if placed on the side or corners of obects that give a more First person or 3rd person look. If it did, We could easily make 1st and 3rd person perspective levels.

Grab sensor:
-Grabbed by players 1-4

-Grabbed by tag (on sackbot)

- (Sackbot grabbed tagged object) This would be placed on the sackbot (not the grabable object) and activated if the sackbot is grabbing something with a specific tag. The output would be from the sensor on the sackbot and not on the grabbed object. This would help in situations where an output would not be activated by just R1, or a tag activated by grabbing, but when the sackbot is grabbing a specific tagged object and only that sackbot.

Tag sensor

6/30/12)
-Output strength. Tags can send an along signal wirelessly if a battery is giving them one. That same signal is received through the sensors as well, giving a tag sensor an analog output as well as the normal digital output. So why can't we set the signal strength on the tag itself? Tags are already a better source of signal than batteries because of their wireless, impact, analog and named signals they can transfer. So having to hook them up to a battery to generate the analog signal is unnecessary.
*This would also be VERY useful if impact sensors could receive any sort of analog signal. Preferably the transfer of the signal through impacts. This would allow 1 impact sensor respond to all signal values 1-100% instead of multiple unique named tags & their respective sensors.

Magic mouths:

-Selectable option menu. A special mouth with a speech bubble just like it is normally but with set options to choose and given the respective outputs. Ex. "Yes" and "No" with output 1 and 2 or "Choice A", "Choice B" & "Choice C" with 3 outputs. (No need for a selector, custom made text and other unnecessary logic and display) (This would be used more for dialog options and merchant style menus rather than complex title screens & inventory menus)

-Font & bubble colors

Paintinator:
-Velocity

-Emit anything! (so many people want this..)

Microchips:
-Auto gyroscope for the expanded chip sheet. (Maybe this is just me but I hate how the expanded chip rotates with the object.. I guess it makes sense in the case of gyroscopes, angle sensors etc.. It would not apply that logic to the object.. just be a preview/setting gyro)

New tools, sensors & materials

Recorded Video & use of TVs (9/8/12)
-I'm not too sure how possible this would be but I thought I'd mention anyway. A way to record short video clips with popit. Much like taking photos. These could be shared, posted or even placed into those TVs we see in the tutorials.

Materials (6/30/12)
-Rounded holo and/or sticker panel. A non-clipping, invisible material with a rounded edge like most sponges, dark matter, rubber, etc. You can apply decorations and cameras along the edges for great visual effects and camera views on these materials. So a rounded, but clippable and invisible material, would be very useful. (especially if local space was fully supported).

Inverter (8/18/12)
-A tweaker that inverts an object when activated. I'd imagine this would behave similarly to emitters in that if the inversion cannot take place if the object would collide with another material with physical properties. This means it would also always work with sticker panel or holos due to not having any physical collisions.

Visibility Tweaker (9/8/12)
-A tweaker that makes an object invisible when activated. The physical properties would still apply, as the object is still there, just invisible. This would allow sackbots & objects with decos to be invisible at certain times.

Layer sensor:
-The layer sensor would detect which playable thick layer the object or sackbot it is on, is on..It could be one sensor with 3 separate outputs or a single outputting sensor with a tweakable layer choice.
(this can already be made with a impact sensor/holo frame type set up but so could the angle sensor

and could reduse those steps for a faster easier result)

Recorded sound object:
-A sound object that records short sounds from a mic that can be trimmed down. Using magic mouths or sackbot brains for this is very cumbersome due to delay and/or empty bubbles popping up.. This would be a simple sound object speaker with it's normal single input or trigger options. Allowing for great custom sound options and short voice clips.

Controlinator/Player Camera(6/30/12)
-Perhaps this would be better than patching local space to work at all angles. A contrlinator Camera would be placed on a controlinator with a very flexible angle setting (1st person, over-the-shoulder and 3rd person). The view would only appear to whichever player is in (or remote controlling) the controlinator. Eliminating the "zone" trigger area so that other players never interfere with the zones and their camera view. This would be giving a player in a controlinator a "player camera".

Handleinator(6/30/12)
-The "handleinator" would be a power-up that gives the player (or sackbot) a customized hand held object. Perfect for melee weapons, tools and film props. *Alternatively, enabling tags to be placed anywhere on a sackbots body, would give much more versatility in this area.

Feel free to add or comment. I'l be adding regularly.

2012-01-07 00:30:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

Awesome suggestions!

2012-01-07 00:46:00

Author:
Valeview

Posts: 1581

All nice suggestions that a good handful i've seen before in some form or another. I don't really make suggestions anymore myself sense MM don't seem to read them much anymore whatsoever. *mew

2012-01-07 00:48:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz

Posts: 4261

Fantastic suggestions. Particularly Follower ones and the Yes/No Magic Mouth. I haven't seen the latter suggestion anywhere before. What an awesome idea.

If I might add to this, I'd like to see a 'Weight' tweak for either Anti-Gravs or Material Tweakers.
Some people will say 'But surely you could just lower the effect of gravity on something if you want it to be lighter?'
The effects of gravity, and the weight of an object are not the same thing.

Also, a second Bouyancy tweak for Anti-Gravs. We can currently make objects become indifferent to water, which would previously either sink or float, but I'd like to be able to specifically make cardboard sink or metal float in some scenarios, for instance. Possible to do with standard logic, I know. But it seems like a totally do-able extra tweak.

Emitters - Accuracy tweak. I find it odd how MM have given us a really useful accuracy tweak for Creatinators, but not for Emitters. Especially given the similarities between the two things.

That's all I got.

2012-01-07 01:46:00

Author:
Ostler5000

Posts: 1017

Controllinator / (movinator?):
currently we have the option for closest player to control outwith a seat.
Options need to be added for player 1 - 4 exclusivity. Like your follower suggestion.

2012-01-07 03:48:00

Author:
ForgottenEnigma

Posts: 1414

Great suggestions, and they don't seem unreasonable. It'll be a shame if they never include the follower option to specify a player. It would eliminate the need to stick players into sackbots in many situations. Or at least make the sackbot behave completely like the player when it's being directly controlled by him.

2012-01-07 07:04:00

Author:
SnipySev

Posts: 2452

Really great ideas and all of them would be extremely useful.

The speech bubble option you came up with would be great for many different reasons and even for making very simple menus for players who cant make complex menu systems. I have seen a few good levels spoiled by bad menus.

And like Ostler5000 suggested a weight tweaker would be great. Especially for buttons that player don't want sack people to be able to activate by standing on them.

Also for the Paintinator i would love to have the option to sticker it and also have it emit anything you want seeing as its the only thing close to a proper handheld weapon in LBP.

I would also love a material that was bouncy. So you could make things like bouncy castles with it and it would act as bounce pads for non sack folk objects and characters as the bouce pads in game only work on sack folk.

2012-01-07 09:13:00

Author:
Lordwarblade

Posts: 761

Wow these are some pretty awesome suggestions.

I for one, would like to see impact sensors give out an analog signal rather than a digital.

Example: Carboard hits it. The output is 20%. Metal hits it. The output is 100%
That would be awesome! I can think of many applications for it already!

2012-01-07 11:46:00

Author:
Philosopher

Posts: 120

The effects of gravity, and the weight of an object are not the same thing.

They are exactly the same thing, by definition.

What are you looking for with this? The ability to modify the mass of an object?

2012-01-07 13:24:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

They are exactly the same thing, by definition.

What are you looking for with this? The ability to modify the mass of an object?

Perhaps a poor choice of phrasing on my part.
But what I'm getting at is, if I want to make an object weigh less, I have only the option to stick an Anti-Grav on it. While this works to some extent allowing outside forces to move it around easier, it also means that the object doesn't fall to the ground so fast. I trust I don't need to tell you that gravity pulls all objects to the ground at the same speed, regardless of weight. (With the exception of extremely light things, of course.)
Reducing the effects of gravity on one object, will simply make it behave float-ier in all respects, not just the weight of the object.

'Mass' is an alien term to me. Never did like Physics in school too much.

2012-01-07 14:15:00

Author:
Ostler5000

Posts: 1017

Wow these are some pretty awesome suggestions.

I for one, would like to see impact sensors give out an analog signal rather than a digital.

Example: Carboard hits it. The output is 20%. Metal hits it. The output is 100%
That would be awesome! I can think of many applications for it already!

There seem to be several options for giving impact sensors an analog input. I can think of 3 separate uses.
1. Impact output giving an analog signal based on weight. Like you are stating.. I think.

2. An analog signal from the sensor outputting how much of the object is impacted. This, of course, would only be applicable if the object with the sensor was holo or sticker panel and would give a signal based on how much the object is impacted. if the holo is completely impacted (covered entirely by another) it would output 100%. If it was only impacted halfway, it would output 50%. I could see this being hard to implement if there isn't that precise of collision detection built into lbps physics mechanics though.
3. Transfer of analog signal through impacts. Tags can send analog signal wirelessly. So I think an interesting use of impact object with a tag would be to transfer the analog signal of the tag through the impact sensors output, but this would just be reducing steps that can give the same effect though. (Impact sensor of tag turns on chip with a battery giving analog signal)

2012-04-22 23:23:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

Detect sackbot impact is kind of pointless if you can simply put tag

2012-04-22 23:41:00

Author:
Shadowriver

Posts: 3991

Detect sackbot impact is kind of pointless if you can simply put tag

Yes Shadowriver, but this option would trigger an output if any sackbot touches the object. If all sackbots have different tags, this would eliminate the need for AND gates with each sensor & also activate if tagless sackbots touched the object.

2012-04-22 23:57:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

Haha, rtm replied it before. What is named "weight" in LBP is actually the mass, since it isn't affected by gravity.
I liked these suggestions, especially the analog impact sensor trough tag. That would allow setting the damage dealth by a projectile inside the projectile. You can do it now, but the precision of hitbox using a tag sensor plus an impact sensor...

2012-04-23 02:25:00

Author:
Unknown User

A much needed tweak I think: precision cursors. specifically corner editor. I mean, really. big huge circle makes it really difficult to line up the corners accurately.

2012-04-23 03:05:00

Author:
Eanikran

Posts: 79

And then they invented the grid

2012-04-23 03:40:00

Author:
Unknown User

And then they invented the grid

yeah I know, but when you're not using the grid.

2012-04-24 21:30:00

Author:
Eanikran

Posts: 79

Over the past week, I thought of two things;
'Scaled' option for Score Givers - I don't like having to screw with timed activations in order to used Scaled scores. Can't it just scale based on a single activation?

'Destroy Connected' option for Destroyers - I love being able to destroy rigid connections with Destroyers, but having to set up multiple Destroyers to destroy bolted or connected items as well can be a nuisance.

2012-05-05 12:41:00

Author:
Ostler5000

Posts: 1017

I'd like to have some tweaker to make the sackbot move on Attract-O-Gel.

2012-05-05 16:02:00

Author:
Chdonga

Posts: 388

Sackbots can walk on attracto.. Matter of fact, they apply to local space too! :o If a camera set to local space is on the sackbot chip, it will rotate with the sackbot. However.. the controls are still relative to the sackbots standard position.. They don't compensate for local space. This can be fixed with a bit of work but I have not actually done it myself.. I'm guessing 4 angle sensors for the 4 angles (floor, walls & ceiling) that would alternate the controls set to each specific orientation. There are probably other ways too.

2012-07-01 02:29:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

2012-07-01 23:33:00

Author:
megaextremist

Posts: 221

Wow, I am impressed with the in depth explanations of everything you came up with. You forgot one thing, all of this really seems like it should be in LBP3-- /sniped

2012-07-02 14:31:00

Author:
DaSackBoy

Posts: 606

Nooo.. Not LBP3.. That will probably never be released or will be released years later.. Most of these are just small additions to what we already have that could make many more things possible or easier. If any make it into lnp2 or lbpv that would be nice..

2012-07-02 17:53:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

@Dotr, I know, just j/king.

One thing would be the Sackbot animations. Those would be crucial for film people who need a better range of emotions from the Sackbots.

2012-07-02 19:51:00

Author:
DaSackBoy

Posts: 606

Yeah, like how you could use animations in the PSP version. You would hold L1 and up or down or something like that.

2012-07-02 22:44:00

Author:
ConanUltimate

Posts: 104

Sackbot story character "animation styles" have a few unique emotes. These can be used on any sackbot too because they are built into the sackbot brains & can be changed on the same bot. I wish they would expand on this & add more animations.. Including the psp ones..

2012-07-03 00:46:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

What about an option for holograms/sticker panel that allows them to bump into other holographic materials or bump into certain holographic materials by colour it would be very useful in terms of fps making sure your cursor, (holographic material) to not go offscreen during gameplay.

2012-07-07 21:50:00

Author:
Unknown User

What about controlinator options that limit who can go into what.

2012-07-07 22:08:00

Author:
Undarivik

Posts: 442

The Handlenator IS THE MOST EPICEST IDEA EVER!!!!
I've actually thought of it in LBP 1 back then,but I didn't think of it as The Handlenator.

2012-07-14 06:43:00

Author:
bigl0uc0ntra

Posts: 113

I would like if there was on option to take that joystick/wheel thingy off the controllinator and be able to move your sackboy's arms around in it.

2012-07-25 00:44:00

Author:
bigl0uc0ntra

Posts: 113

There is only one thing about LBP logic that 'really' bothers me, and it's the default settings of sensors. I can usually count with my fingers the number of times I use the closeness setting for tag sensors. Also, typically, whenever I fail to properly edit one of the sensors to strength, it causes a slew of unneeded frustration and review of my logic. Given how many sensors I tend to use, this process takes an inordinate amount of time.

I did have a saved object to circumvent this problem, yet now my hearted objects section is gone.

I suppose another change would be to move the colour selection of components to the very bottom of the edit menu. It's somewhat annoying to have to move down through 8 or so colours just to get to editing the option I want. Like the option to hide/show components in play mode, it's probably the least used function on the edit menu, but it takes up half the space.

2012-07-30 04:15:00

Author:
SSTAGG1

Posts: 1136

I want to see real working TVs.

2012-07-31 21:08:00

Author:
bigl0uc0ntra

Posts: 113

I want the options to either have shared screens or to have INDEPENDANT multiplayer screens. I beleive this is in the LBP vita version so I would really want it for LBP2. In LBP2 , it has to be versus mode for the game to have INDEPENDANT screens. It would be quite awesome if we could have any type of screen gameplay,no matter what the game type is.

2012-08-04 20:43:00

Author:
SackBoy98

Posts: 588

2012-08-11 18:58:00

Author:
Tynz21

Posts: 544

These are some of the best suggestions I've seen. Many would save loads of logic work and some would just make the game better aesthetically, such as the sackbot animations suggested. One thing I really wish they had in game is a sticker crop tool. I suppose it would cut down on the need for dlc stickers, which is probably why we haven't seen it yet. However, since they released the move paint tool, I don't see why they couldn't put out a tool to crop your stickers into shape... I'd fork over $5.99 for that.

Thanks Tynz. A sticker crop tool would actually be unnecessary IF the sticker cutter tool was more reliable. One of the biggest uses of stickers to me is the ability to just have extra shapes, or cut out extra work needed to make specific shapes from scratch with holo and sticker panel. Unfortunately, it seems like practically EVERY sticker has an invisible boarder that is not actually visible in the sticker image. So, as I'm sure you and many already know, when you "cut out" this shape with the sticker cutter tool it often looks nothing like the sticker, but more like an amorphous blob! Then you have to corner edit it yourself to cut out that extra outline area.

Sticker packs are the only dlc I don't get for this reason alone..

2012-08-18 21:05:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

2012-08-22 16:56:00

Author:
Masseyf

Posts: 226

The ability to set lives on checkpoints. I dont like that infinite is pretty much expected, but its not hard to see why when your choices are a fairly small number or infinite. Easy to implement too, object/graphic already exists (single life CP), and the coding/logic involved is nothing more than a counter and a trigger that turns off a light every 25% of your set number. (this option on the entrance would be handy too!)

I never really thought about this but it's a good point. It seems like checkoints are a somewhat "grandfathered in" type of object. In that it is rather silly to have 3 separate things that do the same thing but in different amounts. I don't really understand why they wouldn't just have a single checkpoint object that could be tweaked to have a certain amount or infinite. This could even be tweaked to serve as the level entrance since all the entrance seems to be is a glorified single life checkpoint..

While on the subject one thing that kinda bugged me in certain situations with checkpoints is that they are not player dependent. If anyone dies it costs the team of players a life. It makes sense to have a good sense of cooperation but in some cases it would be nice to have a setting that keeps track of how many times each player has died, and when that player has run out of lives, that one player will no longer spawn from the checkpoint.

Sensors - replace the effect radius and layer option with a properly customizable one. Id love to be able to set exactly what area and layer(s) that will trigger the sensor, could be done by letting you drag out a holo like mat when tweaking your sensor.

A lot of people seem to agree with this and want something similar, but I honestly don't see why it's necessary.. Oh wait.. I thought you were talking about tag sensors specifically (in which my normal response would be don't impact sensors kinda do that?) But you are talking about ALL sensors? Not a bad idea at all, but actually a similar concept to the impact sensor on an invisible holo. Having an adjustable & layer dependent trigger radius like you are describing would actually be very much like the function of an impact sensor. This would be very useful for player sensors since there is no "impacted by player" setting on impact sensors.

In most cases, i think impact sensors with tags are the solution to any tag radius-area-specific type of situation. So in actuality.. I could only see this as being useful with player sensors since you can not put tags or any logic on players.

2012-08-23 03:05:00

Author:
Dortr

Posts: 548

I never really thought about this but it's a good point. It seems like checkoints are a somewhat "grandfathered in" type of object. In that it is rather silly to have 3 separate things that do the same thing but in different amounts. I don't really understand why they wouldn't just have a single checkpoint object that could be tweaked to have a certain amount or infinite. This could even be tweaked to serve as the level entrance since all the entrance seems to be is a glorified single life checkpoint..

It's probably there for the sake of compatibility. In situations where you're adding features to or bugfixing an existing tool, oftentimes it requires modifying dependencies that are used by other parts of the game...even changing their behavior slightly can potentially introduce game-breaking bugs and glitches, so it's safer to branch the code into a new tool and create a little UI clutter than to risk breaking thousands or even millions of published levels.

2012-08-23 12:34:00

Author:
Chazprime

Posts: 587

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