Archive: 8 posts

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Hey all ^^/ So Im nearly finished a level I started about 4 months ago (not worked on constantly by any means!). Its a 1-2P sackbot level (as there seems to be a distinct lack of 2P co-op sackbot levels out there, now I know why!!). Adding that second sackbot sure does create some odd problems, not to mention frame issues... Anyway, the problem. I wanted to make it so if you die (ie your sack) you get a score penalty - simple enough. I figured the easiest way to do this is to have the score giver take the points upon respawning your sack, since all the logic involved in respawning is routed thru a single AND gate and its inevitable you will respawn. http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww117/swirls09/LBP/X9cPic1-1.jpg "A" is basically the following/respawning behaviours depending on players and whats going on - ie 1P/2P/someones dead/someone left. All route thru "B". Score giver is set to minus 100 and "just you". Figured this would work and didnt give it another thought. Then a test run with a friend y'day of the level, the points almost always got deducted from the opposite person!? Really didnt understand why... (Not just that they came off the opposite person, but that it wasnt *always* the case! So not only was it wrong, but theres a variable in there and I dont understand either) After some playing around, I realised that if the trigger comes from a NOT directly into a score giver, the effect seems to default back to "all players" on the score giver. (This wasnt the case above btw, just noting it for the sake of it) So I tried this http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww117/swirls09/LBP/X9cPic2.jpg Basically, just saying 1)Can you detect a player & 2)Does the bot disappear, linked to an AND gate. Limited testing on my own (with 2nd controller) and this appears to be working, hopefully it will continue to do so in a real co-op test run of the actual level! So perhaps this is solved, but I dont actually know why the first way didnt work and that bothers me. Im learning a ton from creating this level and its annoying not actually understanding why the first method behaved the way it did. Anyone out there have any insights? Have you done this sort of thing, if so how did you go about it?

2012-01-04 07:27:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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Hmm... is that a timer in the first picture, in the "B" section? If so, then I bet it was that delay (however slight) that was causing the issues. It could also explain why the behavior wasn't always the same, what with delays (lag) in players dieing and respawning. In the second pic there is no timer, so the logic reacts faster than it originally did (instantly.) I have no way to test or prove any of this at the moment, it's just my best guess.

2012-01-04 09:00:00 Author: Timelord_X Posts: 55

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Hmmm, had not considered that. It is indeed a timer (1.5 sec counting down, probably not neccassary, did it from get go on the off chance that there may be repeated penalty to prevent that from happening). I'm not certain, but I believe this is either instant or 1 frame. So it is possible that is the variable. Although even if I for some reason gave a several second delay, why would it choose to deduct from the other player? Anyway, thanks for reply, I'll test out method 1 again minus the timer, am curious!

2012-01-04 09:22:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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Well, I don't work with score givers much, but it could be that if one player is dead when it activates, it would deduct the score from the only available (alive) player? Dunno, but I'm curious too.

2012-01-04 09:41:00 Author: Timelord_X Posts: 55

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Well I'm just baffled by this! Remade method 1, got problem to occur. Method 1 minus the timer (AND directly into score giver). Problem still occurs. Even more bizarrely, it works at first, about a minute in it starts to pick on 1 player (not to be confused with player 1), regardless of cause of death or proximity to other player or proximity to checkpoint, 1 player gets victimised! Once that player is reduced to no score, the detection appears in black numbering and does not get subtracted from anyone...

2012-01-04 09:52:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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How odd. I'm wondering now if it has something to do with the fact that the player sensor isn't directly hooked up to the AND in the original. I've had issues like that with player sensors going through other logic and then not doing what I want them to, much like this.

2012-01-04 09:57:00 Author: Timelord_X Posts: 55

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Well on the plus side, using the same test level and very same bots, quickly changing them both over to method 2, I can't seem to break it. Although I think I've an idea now. If I create a grab item and a score giver on it, as a bot u don't get awarded the points, but put a 2nd condition on the grab item of a player sensor and link them to an AND gate and your bot will receive the points... Perhaps that's it? Don't quite understand why method 1 works to begin with and then breaks down in a random fashion but... Actually I'll go ahead and test method 1 with a player sensor (really talking this whole thing aloud now lol) *EDIT* Ok! I think that's it! Method 1 (no timer, not needed, problem occurred without), with a player sensor added on the condition and I'm getting much more favourable results. It did deduct points from the death of both sacks on 2 occasions from 1 player, but I believe my convoluted logic is causing the actual players to get so mashed together the engine falters in determining which players signal is to blame. At least, it's the best I can understand it. So, method 2 is best anyway, since the mix up scenario is massively reduced and the point deduction happens at death rather than respawn.

2012-01-04 10:08:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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=o I never knew that sackbot thing. That might be it. Do eet! I'm quite enjoying this whole process. c: Edit: Lol, I replied just barely too late. Well, good deal! And good info to have.

2012-01-04 10:26:00 Author: Timelord_X Posts: 55

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