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#1

Prizes, why bother?

Archive: 21 posts

A few days ago I published a level with a couple of pieces of Christmas music. So far it has 500 plays which isn't bad.

I gave the music away as prizes, since I'm happy for other people to use them in their own Christmas levels, however a couple of other levels have popped up that have 3,000 and 8,000 plays each just giving away the same pieces of music and nothing more.

Here are the levels in question:

Christmas Songs: Jingle Bells / We Wish You A Merry Christmas by Ayneh (http://lbp.me/v/87erh7)
Jingle Bells / We wish you a Merry Christmas (Giveaway) by stani13 (http://lbp.me/v/8-1sew)
Christmas music by PiratiNinja (http://lbp.me/u/PiratiNinja/levels)

This has happened with nearly everything I've made a prize. I'm pretty fed up with it. I'm fed up with people getting credit for doing nothing and I'm fed up with all the abusive PMs and comments saying I stole or copied something when I didn't.

There's no reason to give away prizes. People will just republish or copy them.		2011-12-14 15:11:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

I thought you can make it so the prizes can't be shared? Or does that not effect people giving away your prizes in their levels? Also, in the description of the prize, would it not say who its original creator (ie you) is?2011-12-14 15:22:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

Not much you can do really. Could be just the tag (giveaway) that everyone went for. I suppose you could report the levels, but that doesn't really change anything.

The prizes should have your name as the original creator though, so respectable creators would either realize it's from you, or get your permission.

Also, seems like the community is onto them already. Comments and reviews saying they stole your work.		2011-12-14 15:26:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Anytime you give anything away, you run the risk of someone republishing as their own.

Music, logic, vehicles, costumes.

And yeah, it seems like some cruel cosmic joke that when they give away, it gets tons of plays and praise.

Who knows, its all very sad.

At least, like you mentioned, it had a decent run.

Took me a long time to decide to do my Costume level, for that very reason. Why bother, I figured, people are just going to steal them and republish. But after many months, the costumes sat in my popit. And, I thought, what good are the things I've made, if all I'm going to do is hide them away?

I don't think its worthless. 500+ people stopped by your earth to received the gift you made. No matter what happened afterwards, it sounds like it was a great success.

There is always next Christmas. 		2011-12-14 15:45:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

People who send you abuse, you can report them. And come to terms with the fact that we are the few adults in a giant online kindergarten.2011-12-14 15:48:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

I thought you can make it so the prizes can't be shared? Or does that not effect people giving away your prizes in their levels? Also, in the description of the prize, would it not say who its original creator (ie you) is?

You can make them non sharing, but it doesn't matter.

Music can be stolen and the creators name erased. So, it doesn't even matter.

Like an old teacher of mine used to say - "Locks only keep the honest people out."		2011-12-14 15:49:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

You can make them non sharing, but it doesn't matter.

Music can be stolen and the creators name erased. So, it doesn't even matter.

Like an old teacher of mine used to say - "Locks only keep the honest people out."

I didn't know you can erase the creators name. I've had a look through some of the comments on one of the stolen levels (lots of people comparing him to the grinch ), a lot of them say that they've checked the prizes and it still says "originally created by Ayneh" or whatever.

It's a really bloody shame that they have so many more plays compared to the original creator.		2011-12-14 15:56:00

Author:
Ali_Star
Posts: 4085

I didn't know you can erase the creators name. I've had a look through some of the comments on one of the stolen levels (lots of people comparing him to the grinch ), a lot of them say that they've checked the prizes and it still says "originally created by Ayneh" or whatever.

It's a really bloody shame that they have so many more plays compared to the original creator.

You can. Obviously, the thieves didn't know how, and obviously, I'm not going to explain how its done.

But I'm glad people are at least going back and letting people know the author stole, and gave no credit.		2011-12-14 16:46:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

The thing I always found is that there's no reason to. If it's anything really useful that people would want, it's probably simple enough for them to create anyway. If they can't make it, they probably won't ever get it out of their popit and use it.

Of course, music alleviates this a little. I can't make music for love nor money, but I'd love to use some custom music. My friend actually showed me some he's found and now I'm using it in my level, though I plan to ask the creator and ask his permission first.

Can you not set sharing to off?		2011-12-14 16:51:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

I don't put Prizes in my levels. there's no reason to. of course I only make game levels and not gave away levels, but still, besides from custom create tools & music. there is never hardly anything i myself would want as a Prize. So what's the point in giving things away in my own levels if when it was the other way around if i'm playing someone's level and I I find they were fulling up my popit with stuff i don't want? I'm just fine with making my levels without prizes, plus besides friends, i don't want people having my stuff i made. *mew

And Sorry to hear about what happen to ya Ayneh. Giveaway levels are a real risky thing left to luck. me myself, i'd never make one. but if it's something you'd like to do yourself, you should keep trying. *mew		2011-12-14 17:20:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

There's no reason to give away prizes. People will just republish or copy them.

I'd say it depends on the creator's attitude.

If they lean more towards an altruistic motivation, then they should be pleased when their creations become more ubiquitous, regardless of who gets credit. If their goal was to help other people, then they've achieved it. I suspect this is the attitude that the developers hoped people would have, based on the "Play Create Share" tagline, and section 4.2 of the LBP EULA...


[...] You authorise [...] other PSN users, to use distribute, copy, modify, display and publish your User Material [...] You waive any moral rights you may have in your User Material [...]

...which is legalese for...


Anyone can do pretty much anything they want with your stuff, and they don't have to give you any credit.


With a more selfish motivation, it becomes desirable for them to take steps to minimize the chances of others taking credit for their work. At the very least, disabling the "Shareable" option on prize bubbles is enough to thwart the opportunistic republishers. Sure, there are ways to get around that, but I suspect the subset of LBP players who would know how to, have little overlap with the subset who might actually have any motivation to do so.


Of course, regardless of any steps they might take, there's always a chance that someone else might plagiarize their work, but does it really matter? Assuming they lost some potential plays/hearts as a result, it's not as if they could've exchanged those plays/hearts for love or money, or anything that's actually going to make any practical difference in their life.


Ultimately, each individual will have their own rationale for choosing to publish something in the first place, and as long as that rationale is sound, then it was the right thing to do. What happens afterwards is beyond their control, and thus not worth worrying about.



...I'm fed up with all the abusive PMs and comments saying I stole or copied something when I didn't.

If you're receiving abusive PMs on LBPC, then feel free to report them, and we'll see what we can do about it. 		2011-12-15 15:11:00

Author:
Aya042
Posts: 2870

Because I don't feel like writing down the generic rant that I post in every thread hating on the 6 year old kids who have bad parenting...

I made an image. Edit: snip that.		2011-12-15 20:24:00

Author:
Cronos Dage
Posts: 396

To Aya's point, sharing content for the community to use is great, and it's something I plan to do with pretty much everything I plan to publish soon.

I don't expect to be famous for publishing it and if I get more than 10 plays from people that end up liking my work I'll be happy. I would be upset if one of those ten republished my work as their own and got 100 plays though. Though (a very small) part of me would be happy that others liked it.

I don't plan to make any of it shareable because stories like these dissapoint me.

People deserve recognition of their work. Not for fame but validation that the 100s of hours they have put into something was well received. Ayneh won't be able to track all re-published versions of their work so it makes it harder to tell if people like it. So it can result in a great creator thinking that no one wants their work, which impacts the community.		2011-12-16 05:51:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

http://lbp.me/search?q=fps+3d
um....lol?
tbh i dont care, as i just wanted to get the method out there, but it's a shame there are so many people like this in the community.
in case your not sure what i'm referring to, literally hundreds of people have republished my copyable tech demo
original level http://lbp.me/v/0ht9kb
then i deleted dlc and published a copyable version http://lbp.me/v/1jk4xb
dem bones seems to be the only level that actually uses it so far though http://youtu.be/sOhZdDjaFmk		2011-12-16 07:34:00

Author:
evret
Posts: 612

http://lbp.me/search?q=fps+3d
um....lol?
tbh i dont care, as i just wanted to get the method out there, but it's a shame there are so many people like this in the community.
in case your not sure what i'm referring to, literally hundreds of people have republished my copyable tech demo
original level http://lbp.me/v/0ht9kb
then i deleted dlc and published a copyable version http://lbp.me/v/1jk4xb
dem bones seems to be the only level that actually uses it so far though http://youtu.be/sOhZdDjaFmk
I'm guessing it's simply because almost no one could understand how it worked

Imo, concepts and music are the only things I look for in prizes. I could use ideas to help my own, and I can't make music worth a ****.		2011-12-16 13:50:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I'd say it depends on the creator's attitude.

If they lean more towards an altruistic motivation, then they should be pleased when their creations become more ubiquitous, regardless of who gets credit. If their goal was to help other people, then they've achieved it. I suspect this is the attitude that the developers hoped people would have, based on the "Play Create Share" tagline, and section 4.2 of the LBP EULA...


[...] You authorise [...] other PSN users, to use distribute, copy, modify, display and publish your User Material [...] You waive any moral rights you may have in your User Material [...]
...which is legalese for...


Anyone can do pretty much anything they want with your stuff, and they don't have to give you any credit.

With a more selfish motivation, it becomes desirable for them to take steps to minimize the chances of others taking credit for their work. At the very least, disabling the "Shareable" option on prize bubbles is enough to thwart the opportunistic republishers. Sure, there are ways to get around that, but I suspect the subset of LBP players who would know how to, have little overlap with the subset who might actually have any motivation to do so.


Of course, regardless of any steps they might take, there's always a chance that someone else might plagiarize their work, but does it really matter? Assuming they lost some potential plays/hearts as a result, it's not as if they could've exchanged those plays/hearts for love or money, or anything that's actually going to make any practical difference in their life.
Sharing doesn't mean redistributing something someone else made and claiming all the benefits.

I'm happy for people to use whatever I give as a prize in their own published levels, that is why I made them shareable to begin with. This isn't what has happened in this case however, instead someone has simply republished the prizes and gotten 20 times the plays and exposure.


Because I don't feel like writing down the generic rant that I post in every thread hating on the 6 year old kids who have bad parenting...
No, they're simply people who deliberately misappropriate others work to profit from it with zero work or effort. Why would you defend someone that takes you for a mug no matter how bad their upbringing is?


http://lbp.me/search?q=fps+3d
um....lol?
tbh i dont care, as i just wanted to get the method out there, but it's a shame there are so many people like this in the community.
in case your not sure what i'm referring to, literally hundreds of people have republished my copyable tech demo
original level http://lbp.me/v/0ht9kb
then i deleted dlc and published a copyable version http://lbp.me/v/1jk4xb
dem bones seems to be the only level that actually uses it so far though http://youtu.be/sOhZdDjaFmk
Not that I don't agree with you but that's not a fair comparison to what I was writing about. Your original levels have 14,000 and 3,000 plays each, while most of those search results have only a handful of plays. You haven't lost much exposure for those levels and your other ones on your profile.		2011-12-16 16:35:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

Yeah, that is a bunch of.. ya know..

Like I have said many times before, LBP is the best broken game ever. 		2011-12-16 23:25:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

Personally, if several people think my work is worth stealing and claiming as their own, thats a pretty big compliment to me 2011-12-17 05:00:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

I'm happy for people to use whatever I give as a prize in their own published levels, that is why I made them shareable to begin with... instead someone has simply republished the prizes...

Umm. Disabling the "Shareable" option doesn't prevent people from using them in their published levels, it only prevents them from putting them in prize bubbles in their own levels.

I believe it's a generally accepted convention that if a creator marks a prize as "Shareable", it's implied that they don't mind other people redistributing their prizes, and vice versa.

So if it bothers you when other people redistribute your prizes, you probably ought to disable the "Shareable" option.		2011-12-17 12:51:00

Author:
Aya042
Posts: 2870

Personally, if several people think my work is worth stealing and claiming as their own, thats a pretty big compliment to me
You seem to be forgetting the part where they get thousands of plays and you get comparatively few, along with people messaging you saying you stole something you in fact made and being abusive.


Umm. Disabling the "Shareable" option doesn't prevent people from using them in their published levels, it only prevents them from putting them in prize bubbles in their own levels.
I thought ever since LBP1 you couldn't publish unshareable objects? Well heck.		2011-12-17 18:34:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

I thought ever since LBP1 you couldn't publish unshareable objects? Well heck.

Yeah. unshareable just means they can't give it away to other people as you just read. of course there are other ways around that. but still. sometimes I really think LBP should have a more clear built in info about how things work and what does what, ETC data base. as some things can be confusing to some people while not to others. *mew		2011-12-17 19:31:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261


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