Archive: 15 posts

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Just recently I found out about suspension systems and I can find any good tutorials I attempted to remake the suspension system cat daddy used but I keep doing something wrong Does anyone know a tutorial or could anyone teach me how to do this Thanks =D

2011-11-25 23:26:00 Author: XxHAMADEHxX Posts: 113

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I'm looking at the photo, and all I see are stiff Springs. While it's possible I'm just really over-simplifying what the issue here might be, what materials are you using for your vehicle? While it's always wise to use Cardboard for the main parts of your vehicle, I strongly recommend using a small square of metal for whatever the Spring is attached to. As odd as it sounds, Connectors and Bolts and such exibit different behaviours based on the materials they're attached to. If you're using cardboard for the Springs, then no amount of Strength or Stiffness will make them hold up.

2011-11-25 23:37:00 Author: Ostler5000 Posts: 1017

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Thank you very much dude Ill try it I was using cardboard and it kept collapsing down Ill let you know what happens next time I log in =D

2011-11-25 23:49:00 Author: XxHAMADEHxX Posts: 113

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Thanks dude that worked =D but now I have a new problem, The wheels hit each other and the springs break =(

2011-11-26 04:14:00 Author: XxHAMADEHxX Posts: 113

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Hi. I used to play, as most of us did, from lbp1 with vehicles, and at a point i started experimenting with suspensions. The first tool i used was cardboard materials and as a suspension used a stiff piston for each wheel. I experimented with setting which cant recall the right now but worked great. When i switched to more heavy materials (metals) unfortunately during time, pistons couldn't keep up with the weight. Though recently got some vehicles from a level which although heavy their suspension worked great. The guy who build them used both a piston and a spring on each wheel (what in short the real suspensions use) but still can't remember which one of them was stiff but i am sure either the spring or the piston wasn't. As soon as i have some time i 'll go check and post if none else comes with any solution.

2011-11-26 08:07:00 Author: zupaton Posts: 167

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Thanks dude that worked =D but now I have a new problem, The wheels hit each other and the springs break =( Could you supply a few photos' of your setup, please? I can't think why what you described would happen. Oh, and let us know what values your Spring is set to. Also, I would definitely use Zupatons advice here. I think it's the piston you're supposed to have stiff, but I can't quite remember, as none of my recent vehicles have been heavy enough to warrant anything more than a standard spring. I'll screw around later with pistons and springs and see what works best.

2011-11-26 13:50:00 Author: Ostler5000 Posts: 1017

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Thanks dude that worked =D but now I have a new problem, The wheels hit each other and the springs break =( You're applying a force across the width of the spring which it isn't designed to take, even when set to be stiff. There are broadly two types of tank suspension: bogie and torsion bar. Bogie suspension can be as simple as the wheels being joined together by a see-saw mechanism. Here's the suspension from my Leopard which emulates torsion bar suspension: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/9891719f.jpg Good luck. Effective suspension is one of the hardest things to make when you're building a tank in LBP.

2011-11-26 14:51:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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Well seems that Ayneh has some impressive cannons up his sleeve and obviously knows his stuff. I also had a peek at my poor mini tank and it turned out to my surprise (silly me) that both spring and piston was set to stiff. The piston is set to flipper out, all timings set to 0 and min and max length set accordingly depending on how much the wheels will extend up-down. Possibly the force-power settings will be different and dependent to the mass of the vehicle and the wheels (how many). Hopefully all that will get you somewhere.

2011-11-26 15:16:00 Author: zupaton Posts: 167

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Thank you very much guys =D Im going to try and emulate torsion suspension because boggies would require me to use all three planes. Btw does using two layer tracks make a difference cause one layer tracks are a pain for me to use. @Ayneh is this how your suspension works? 37946 Thanks guys =D

2011-11-26 19:51:00 Author: XxHAMADEHxX Posts: 113

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I myself only experimented with one thick and one thin layer hoping to get more than one side by side but am afraid they are too fragile and suffer from umm.. overelasticity? Two thick layers should be more robust i suppose. Ayneh seem to use strings though. Ohh, and by the way Ayneh? Those lil tweakers on tracks are material tweakers set to indestructible or something?

2011-11-26 20:24:00 Author: zupaton Posts: 167

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@Ayneh is this how your suspension works? 37946 Yeah, except the arm is made from metal and there are multiple springs. Those lil tweakers on tracks are material tweakers set to indestructible or something? Yep. They cause more problems than they solve, though. Objects tweaked to be indestructible seem to have collision problems. If you're interested in some of the internal systems of a tank I have a video on my YouTube channel that may help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDUUfoHbV5w I run through most things except some functions on the commander's TIS module.

2011-11-27 14:26:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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Thanks guys I made a suspension system by combining all of the ideas you proposed =D (Im going to make a tank In a few days for you guys) @Ayneh Thanks dude im going to check out that video =D (btw how do you make you treds because al the stingrod designs I make break easy lol (im switching from 2 layer treds to string desighns =D)

2011-11-28 08:58:00 Author: XxHAMADEHxX Posts: 113

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Also, remember to give your track(s) slack, preferably with a tensioner, to prevent breakage and minimize slack buildup when going over obstacles. So to explain: Imagine the track path is the shape of a rectangle (I know it's not, but the same principles apply to the usual upside down trapezoidal shape). (1)When you travel over an obstacle, the front wheels are pushed up and so the right side of the rectangle is decreased and the bottom becomes just slightly longer. So now your track path is smaller and you'll have a bit of slack in the track. (2)BUT when the obstacle is under the middle of the tracks, the front wheels are back down and the so the rectangle is back in its standard shape EXCEPT now the middle is elongated since it's now curved due to the obstacle pushing up into the middle wheels. Thus, you need some slack for the longer track path. So now you won't have enough track if you made it tight when the suspension was at rest. (3) When the obstacle is at the rear the same thing in (1) happens To solve this dilemma, you need the slack for (2) but more tension in (1) and (3). So build the tracks with a bit of slack when the suspension is a rest and then add a tension device under the armour to increase the tension when needed. Basically this system is the same as the derailleur on the rear of a multi-speed bike. When you are using smaller gears, you need to compensate for the extra slack that you need when using higher gears. Here's a pic for reference... your system doesn't need the Z shape... a simple wheel hidden under armour and pushing up on the track will do. Good luck! http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/215541/large/H1000784-Bicycle_gears-SPL.jpg

2011-11-29 22:12:00 Author: Unknown User

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I've tried to implement an idle wheel with track tension before but couldn't get it to work. In my experience the tracks after the idle wheel and just before the drive wheel are under a lot of tension while elsewhere less so, making it hard to get an even distribution of tension. Nearly every time something goes wrong with the tracks it's in those places where the tracks are stretched so much they start to collide with inside of a wheel or sprocket and rip themselves apart, so this would be a godsend if someone could make a working system. I've only found setting the motor bolts to different speeds (after taking into account the different sizes of the wheels) to help alleviate the tension in the problem areas works so far.

2011-11-30 13:46:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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I've tried to implement an idle wheel with track tension before but couldn't get it to work. In my experience the tracks after the idle wheel and just before the drive wheel are under a lot of tension while elsewhere less so, making it hard to get an even distribution of tension. Nearly every time something goes wrong with the tracks it's in those places where the tracks are stretched so much they start to collide with inside of a wheel or sprocket and rip themselves apart, so this would be a godsend if someone could make a working system. I've only found setting the motor bolts to different speeds (after taking into account the different sizes of the wheels) to help alleviate the tension in the problem areas works so far. hmmm, i never have that problem (although i use treads made from 2 thick layers) in my experience the breakage usually occurs when the suspension is set up poorly and exhibits a lot of pressure on one individual link. this problem seems to worsen the more links you have (since the more links you have the less mass each one has) until they stretch and break right away. although i think i have finally found a good balance. i was working on different track designs that try to put as little pressure on the first and last suspension wheel (since those wheels usually causes the links to break or bounce annoyingly) and i have come up with a very good design. anyways, on the suspension side of the tank i usually use the torsion bar setup similar to Ayneh but i use a thick section for the bar and a thin layer for the back (all of my tanks are 2 thick layers and 3 thin layers). also i use overlaying bolts where one is a sprung bolt set to about 40% and the other is a wobble bolt with 90 degrees of rotation and is set to about 40% aswell. i find this setup (if balanced correctly) provides the best ride and also allows the torsion bars to both compress and rebound past the default position (where they would be if the tank is at rest). it also does not have any annoying tendencies like leaning forwards when driving or bouncing when stopped on uneven terrain. hope this helps, i personally have found that the suspension is the hardest part of building a tank (i usually spend atleast 50% of the time building on tweaking and changing the suspension to where i like it).

2011-12-15 23:52:00 Author: horwitzer Posts: 255

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