Archive: 26 posts

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Recently, I published a platformer in which you press the triangle button to freeze and unfreeze time to manipulate the environment and get through the level. Several people left reviews(good ones I should add), that said they liked it but RikiRik-ita had done something similar, and that my level was unoriginal. I played Rikis level(which I loved BTW), and the concept is using the right control stick to alter the temperature which pulls the platforms up or down, making for some creative platforming. I was in awe at how someone could call these two ideas similar at all. The only thing similar is that they use a non-physical controllinator to manipulate the platforms around them. So does this mean that creating new types of gameplay is unoriginal? That the concept of new types of platforming is in itself an idea, and once its done once, all other new ideas after it are unoriginal because the use of a new concept was already used?

2011-11-06 22:44:00 Author: ATMLVE Posts: 1177

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no, it just means that some people can't differentiate between one concept and another. i've seen hundreds of unique ways of making a platform move from left to right but you can't simply say they are the same just because of the fact they both move something from left to right. it's the concept that interest people and not the similarity of the end result. my friend is actually one of those people who can't differentiate. he actually thinks Braid is a rip off of Prince of Persia just because you can rewind time... i kid you not. there is nothing you can do about people like that except either ignore them or consider what they say carefully and judge for yourself

2011-11-06 23:24:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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All Platforming concepts are similar to something, running, jumping, swinging, collecting objects, going through timed obstacles, etc. I've seen levels that slow down time in LBP1, I guess all LBP2 levels that use that idea in any form are now unoriginal. Only thing you can do is put your spin and your style on it. I have a new level, called The Explorers coming out, and was completely surprised when twice, on my recent activity I saw someone play levels similar in game style as mine. One was even called, Exploring the Unexplored. Same idea, same setting and even almost the same name! I could have just gave up there, but I'm just going to have to do the best I can on my level and hope people find the uniqueness in it. Guess we will find out.

2011-11-06 23:47:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Taking an idea and expanding upon it is the best way to make something new. I can understand if it's 'too similar' but in your example I don't think that the other stage sounds similar to yours. I guess it's also a bonus that your stage reminds people of such an excellent stage! I wouldn't call it unoriginal...

2011-11-07 01:34:00 Author: Mr_Fusion Posts: 1799

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To be honest, how many orginal ideas are there out there? Not very many. Just about anything you could think to create would be very close to something in the world.

2011-11-07 01:53:00 Author: Undarivik Posts: 442

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So does this mean that creating new types of gameplay is unoriginal? That the concept of new types of platforming is in itself an idea, and once its done once, all other new ideas after it are unoriginal because the use of a new concept was already used? I am genuinely tempted to sig' you on that ;p

2011-11-07 09:46:00 Author: EvilWuun Posts: 152

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To be honest, how many orginal ideas are there out there? Not very many. Just about anything you could think to create would be very close to something in the world. This is kind of the crux of the matter; at what point do you say something is COMPLETELY original? Because in anything we create there will always be an element of an idea that's already been had, so is anything we do TRULY original? I think in this format (LBP2), the best most of us can do is to try and present an old idea in a new way, be that visually or conceptually. To be honest, original thought is overrated; there have been plenty of original ideas that have fallen flat, and equally plenty of unoriginal ideas that are superb. To make an old idea seem new again, I think, is a far greater skill anyway.

2011-11-07 10:00:00 Author: RainbowtipsFort Posts: 144

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@ ATMLVE...I feel your pain. Sadly, to some, if you use sponge material anywhere in your level, your level is not unique because you used sponge material. I thought your stage design was outstanding and very unique, as well as your manipulation of the gaming environment. You, my friend, are an incredible creator. My advice...you can read all the comments and reviews left on your levels, but only listen to the ones that make sense.

2011-11-07 12:18:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567

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I have no idea how some idiot dumb butt nincompoop could compare the two levels. It's absurd. While time stop mechanics have been used quite a bit in LBP, you did it in a unique way and in a unique style. That makes it original. It's hard to come up with something that is truly 100% original. The idea(s) may be borrowed but the implementation is original. I have one I'm working on now. I borrowed the idea from another game, but the way I'm working it, is unique, I hope. Anyway, who cares what they say. Do you like the level? Do you think it's original? Well there you go. Create for yourself. If other people like it too, well then that's a bonus. If other people hate on it, then bump 'em. Annnnnnnd delete.

2011-11-07 15:38:00 Author: biorogue Posts: 8424

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There were even other levels in the contest that had the same time stop mechanics. "In the Nick of Time" used that mechanic as well but the differences in gameplay, theme, and use of the mechanic between that and "Melting Heat" are vastly different, and the differences in gameplay between Riki's level and yours is far from the same mechanic. Although I did think yours was going to be about temperature too and not time freezing... If a creator is to desire to be innovative and unique.. I feel that basic platforming is not the way to go. They use the default character (your normal sackperson). default power ups, default health (1 hit kill), and almost every type of obstacle has been used thousands of times. This only really leaves innovation to the story, theme, uses of the defaults, or adding an unique object to the gameplay. It has been done and is still being done but it's becoming very hard to make an innovative basic platformer. I have seen Lockstich review quite a few amazing platformers saying that they had unique and innovative ideas but also copied him... Which is completely unfair to say on any basic platformer and considering the levels in question were very innovative and IMO more unique and actually more fun than his, made it seem very snobby and rude. If someone has any completely new obstacles or mechanics in a basic platformer they should be praised not bashed and said that they are copied. If anything ATM, non physical controlinator levels that interact with the environment or objects are still pretty rare in general.

2011-11-07 16:34:00 Author: Dortr Posts: 548

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I'm pretty sure that the guy that came up with the "originality" concept, copied it somewhere

2011-11-07 16:50:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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I thought your level was amazing, but RikiRik-itas level i found majorly disappointing. not because of the usual quality that comes from riki, but in general, i didnt like it. i would defiantly not compare it to yours, i certainly didnt think of rikis level when playing yours, i thought it was very original. ATMLVE, your level, im pretty sure, is original.

2011-11-07 18:51:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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We're human, 'original' is pretty much a paradox in itself. Everything we say or do has without doubt been influenced by something around us. It's impossible to truly think up anything completely original. Consider an obvious example of something like aliens, whenever people design aliens they never really look THAT alien. Instead they tend to be humanoid with unusual features that already exist on other living creatures on Earth - say 5 eyes, an arm on their head etc. Or how about trying to think up a new colour (I used to try this all the time when I was a kid... lol) but it's impossible, how can you think of something when you don't know what you're trying to think of? Moral of the story, clearly the person you're referring to here is a divvy, and I'm queuing your level as it sounds like a riot!

2011-11-07 20:13:00 Author: Xaif Posts: 365

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yes, thats true but we would all go insane if we went around with logic like that.

2011-11-07 20:21:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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...So does this mean that creating new types of gameplay is unoriginal? That the concept of new types of platforming is in itself an idea, and once its done once, all other new ideas after it are unoriginal because the use of a new concept was already used? Before I start, I will like to share with you the definition of the word "original" Original (ə-rĭj'ə-nəl) pronunciation adj. Preceding all others in time; first. Not derived from something else; fresh and unusual: an original play, not an adaptation. Showing a marked departure from previous practice; new: a truly original approach. See synonyms at new. Productive of new things or new ideas; inventive: an original mind. Being the source from which a copy, reproduction, or translation is made. Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/original#ixzz1d3UOPtJO If what was said was true, then nothing would be original. In fact the word original derives from the word origin. Is that unoriginal. Then LittleBigPlanet 2 isn't original because it is a sequel of an unoriginal platformer... To make a long story short, the person who told you this is one of these 3 things: Deluded (Some mental problems) Jealous (Needs to put your work down to feel better than him/her self) Stupid (Doesn't know the meaning of the word original. And should look up the word STUPID while their at it!) So don't worry yourself. When a level has something innovative like yours, then people are always there to bring you down. There is an old saying about if you do nothing, no one has anything to complain about. Well, I think it goes like that

2011-11-07 21:04:00 Author: Roneranger Posts: 415

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What is 100% original nowadays? Nothing. We humans are easily influenced by external sources all the time. Even when we try our best to come up with something no one ever saw before, we add one or two elements that remind us of that game/song/book/movie we loved. Does that prevent our creation from becoming something no one ever saw before? Nope. I'll use as an example a game series whose originality every hater picks on: the Uncharted series. The plot of finding some hidden treasure or lost city while racing against an army of baddies and doing incredible over-the-top stuff reminds us of Indiana Jones. The cover mechanics remind us of Gears of War. The climbing and simple puzzles remind us of Tomb Raider. But at the end of the day, is there any game that reminds us of Uncharted in the same way? Sure, there's a lot of elements from other sources Uncharted uses for its own benefit. Why is it then that nobody who enjoys it seems to mind its apparent unoriginality? I'll say why; it's because the Uncharted series always manages to mix these elements in its own way and give them its own twist. It's a game that manages to be more than just the sum of its parts. It has elements from other franchises, but it puts those elements to its own use, it gives them a different purpose (and in most cases, a better purpose) than their sources and that's how the Uncharted games create a charisma of their own. It's OK if you're not 100% original. Just don't blatantly rip off something else and give your own twist to the influences you drew from other sources and you'll be fine.

2011-11-07 22:09:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Before I start, I will like to share with you the definition of the word "original" Original (ə-rĭj'ə-nəl) pronunciation adj. Preceding all others in time; first. Not derived from something else; fresh and unusual: an original play, not an adaptation. Showing a marked departure from previous practice; new: a truly original approach. See synonyms at new. Productive of new things or new ideas; inventive: an original mind. Being the source from which a copy, reproduction, or translation is made. Well you have to consider that almost every adjective is subjective. Where as one person may think something is original and some may not. In the extreme case, no level is original because there obviously have been other levels, meaning only the first would be original. In the opposite side of the extreme case, all levels are original because they are all different in some way, even if the differences are minute. (Unless the level is a copy) Have people made platformers before? Yes, tons. Have people made platformers with a industrial or temperature based theme? Yes, quite a few. Have people made platformers with an industrial or temperature based theme with a time stop mechanic? I have seen one personally, ATM's. So it is original to an extent and based on the persons opinion on what is original or not.

2011-11-07 22:16:00 Author: Dortr Posts: 548

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To make an old idea seem new again, I think, is a far greater skill anyway. Not true, it just means we have alot of culturaly uneducated youngin's. For example, if I were to make a Game and Watch machine how many people on LBP would think theat was a remake if I didn't tell them? Not many.

2011-11-08 02:44:00 Author: Undarivik Posts: 442

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@ undarivik, you should go try and revamp a bomb survival. its hard. really hard. it is a greater skill and possibly more successful due to fans of the old version.

2011-11-08 09:32:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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Not true, it just means we have alot of culturaly uneducated youngin's. For example, if I were to make a Game and Watch machine how many people on LBP would think theat was a remake if I didn't tell them? Not many. Call me stupid, but i'm not entirely sure what you're getting at! In any case, all I was saying is that the concept of originality in game/level creation is almost a moot point; Nearly every game we've ever played has drawn something from something else, either within the context of Games or the context of real life. It doesn't really matter, what matters is how the Creator applies these "gaming templates" to his or her own work, thus rendering the concept of originality almost irrelevant. Which could mean that the only skill required is to take any one of (or a mix of) said templates and present it in any way desired. Which is kind of what I was getting at! Sorry if i've missed the point of your reply. Much love RF

2011-11-08 09:33:00 Author: RainbowtipsFort Posts: 144

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Do you guys know where the problem roots? The problem is that everyone strives so much to be original that they forget to be themselves. And every individual is unique and has something to offer, but mocking something is easier than searching deep into your heart and translate into art of what you find. There are some top notch and recognized creator that has impressive levels from a tech standpoint that has no heart, no soul in them. So...when you put your heart in it...the level is surely unique and original.

2011-11-08 09:59:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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Excellent points RF and Omega. Only we can see a sunrise through our own eyes, as it peeks above the horizon and colors dance in the sky, orange and umber in a spinning embrace gliding on a royal purple carpet.

2011-11-08 12:27:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567

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Only we can see a sunrise through our own eyes, as it peeks above the horizon and colors dance in the sky, orange and umber in a spinning embrace gliding on a royal purple carpet. *Omega feels warmer on the inside* Yeah, that, INDEED! I concur

2011-11-08 12:38:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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OMG! tis like my music videos, i made them for my own personal enjoyment, using what i love and a lot of heart to make and they were reasonably popular. im sure theres lots of levels like that out there! what a brilliant conclusion to a brilliant discussion.

2011-11-08 15:21:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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Instead of debating what is originality, here is my train of thought on stuff I create: I take huge inspiration from things around me, but a recurring source is the classic games I played in my youth and their music. I have taken on the challenge to recreate one of my childhood's favorite games but decided that I do not want to duplicate it; instead, I want it to be a game worthy of its own, true to the universe of LBP and flavored and improved with all things I would have wanted the original game to have. I want it wow me! And literal duplications (like the so many LBP Mario clones) just won't cut it. I want my levels to say "Here, player. This is what I thought this genre should be and what story should be told. This is my take on it all, my vision, my style, my passion!" and it is what I enjoy in some of the best levels out there. And that is originality to me.

2011-11-22 09:58:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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Originality is subjective...and paradoxial. Much like the idea of the Big Bang coming into existence from nothing. There's really no way we could learn the origins of everything that is today. To claim something is truly original would also be claiming to know everything about history. It's exciting and fun to experience something you've never experienced. Being 'original' abstractly means showing people something they haven't seen or experienced.

2011-11-22 13:55:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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