Archive: 20 posts

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A lot of people in my "good number of plays" thread said that the "yay"/"boo" ratio is much more important than play count, and I agree. So, here is the thread addressing that!

2011-09-22 04:56:00 Author: Trader347 Posts: 57

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1/10 boo to yay ratio seems like a rough average. If you have a better ratio you're doing pretty well. What i don't understand is why really good basic platformers even have boo's.. I mean.. thats what all the story levels in LBP1 were and most of the story levels in LBP2 are so you would think that they would understand how to play it and enjoy it. Otherwise why are they even playing the game? I always thought basic platformers would have better ratios..

2011-09-22 06:11:00 Author: Dortr Posts: 548

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What i don't understand is why really good basic platformers even have boo's.. I mean.. thats what all the story levels in LBP1 were and most of the story levels in LBP2 are so you would think that they would understand how to play it and enjoy it. Otherwise why are they even playing the game? I always thought basic platformers would have better ratios.. Yeah, I agree. I think part of it is that some people will boo a level just because they think it has too much attention or just plain jealousy (I know a few people who boo any level with over 5,000 plays). As for the ratio, I would also say 1/10 boo/yay is what I would call good. However, if I saw a level with 30,000 yays and 6,000 boos, I would still think that that is really good. Also, for me to think a level has a bad ratio, it would have to be worse than 1/3.

2011-09-22 06:26:00 Author: Trader347 Posts: 57

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I've said before: 1) LBP may be a fun game, but it's a piece of sh*t social network 2) When you give children the power to vote, you forfeit adult sensibility (I actually say "negate adult laws" but it's the same principle here.) Definitely the more plays you get, the lower your ratio goes. As Dortr says, the average Yay/Boo ratio is about 10/1. If you can properly "grow" a level out of incubation and onto, say, the Cool Pages without taking too many Boos in the beginning, it can maintain 10/1 and at worst will drop to about 5/1. A little bit of negativity in the start fosters more negativity. So votes are definitely "important" to one's sense of worth, and to the success of a level based on the algorithms that promote levels on the Cool Pages or wherever. But they are as broken and unreliable as anything, because there's no knowing the motivation behind it, nor are there established guidelines or rules. That Yay/Boo could come from an infant, urban tween, rural virgin adult, fanboy, troll, a superior or inferior creator in a blissful or grumpy moment, someone farming plays, the family dog chewing on the controller, and so on. If LBP assigned aggregate scores like Metacritic, most levels would have an A rating (or "freshness 90%" or however you choose to phrase it) but in terms of averages, due to just about all levels having a 10/1 ratio... the votes don't mean a level is good or bad, it's just how the numbers line up on average. Judging solely by averages, on a curve, "good levels" would need to have a Yay/Boo ratio of 15/1 or 20/1, which is incredibly difficult to get or maintain in reality because, as you say, there are kids who auto-Boo levels just for being popular or not having enough Boos. It's probably true that a level with a 20/1 ratio has more mass appeal than one with 5/1, but they're both still good levels in principle, and above average on a rigid scale like Metacritic (which people still say is horribly broken). Just gotta play each level with an objective view and vote accordingly. Which too is hard when you go into every level knowing the rating. It would be nice if there were an option to hide level details in-game...

2011-09-22 07:20:00 Author: Unknown User

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I know people might frown upon hearing this... But as soon as a level has a certain number of plays (50 - 100) I don't really look that much for the yay/boo ratio. I find it to be a somewhat reliable indicator og quality when the level has below 10 plays. for instance a level with 0 yays and 2 boos I probably won't play. The instant a level get above a good amount of plays/succes/attention, the haters of LBP will start booing it for no justifiable reason. When a level has reached a number of plays above 100 (and likely been judged by other than the PSN friends of the creator), I will in stead start looking at the hearts/plays ratio and the reviews. The reason for this is the following: -Plays are counted automatically and if people play the level, it will be logged, making it a pretty reliable baseline. -Hearts are (albiet only a very slight one) an "effort" to give out, Hearts will generally only be given out as H4H, support for a good friend, appreciation of an impressive/good level or bookmarking an enjoyable level for potential replay. You cannot properly give off negative vibes with a heart, in the same way as a boo. -Reviews are the same as hearts, in that they require a bit of effort compared to a yay or boo. I have made myself believe that this increased hassle will scare off some of the unfounded negative feedback that a level could get - not sure if its really the case... Looking through the list of reviews for names of crreators whose opinons I generally share, is the other and main reason I look at the review section. If four creators I find have "good taste" gives a positive review on the level, it serves as a very good indicator of whether or not I will find the level enjoyable as well. And this is ofcourse the entire reason to look at all these different stats I still glance at the yays and boos, but I always try to keep in mind that the yay/boo ratio seem to become reduced as the number of plays on the levels increase (a trend possibly driven by jealousy?), and therefore isn't as important on levels with a higher number of plays.

2011-09-22 07:40:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605

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I can't bother to find the post, but I always said that rating a level Yay or Boo was a bad choice. The better way would have been the chance to YAY alone. If you like the level you YAY it, if you love the level you HEART it, if the level doesn't the strike your strings, or is not up to par, you just respect the work of the creator (that could even be a 9 year old kid) and move away. That would have been more fair and respectful.

2011-09-22 07:54:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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I can't bother to find the post, but I always said that rating a level Yay or Boo was a bad choice. The better way would have been the chance to YAY alone. If you like the level you YAY it, if you love the level you HEART it, if the level doesn't the strike your strings, or is not up to par, you just respect the work of the creator (that could even be a 9 year old kid) and move away. That would have been more fair and respectful. I've never thought of this. This is a great idea! It really doesn't make sense in a game like LBP to be able to tell someone by just tapping a button that their creation was a waste of your time/ bad / boring. Having YAY alone would accomplish the same goal. The only problem you could run into there is that levels with no end gate (or whatever they're called), like hangout levels or some versus levels would have less players giving feedback meaning less YAYs. That's not a problem with the current system because you can just compare YAYs to BOOs. Despite this, I think the community would be much better off with just a YAY option. On a side note, I think the "hearted levels" page should be on the main menu of the community page (with Cool Levels / MM Picks / Text Search). This would give more importance to a heart and bring more replays to the good levels. I really don't understand why they have Text Search (which hardly works) on the main community page but not Hearted Levels.

2011-09-22 08:28:00 Author: Trader347 Posts: 57

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Actually I found pretty lame to rate badly with a simple button press something that might have required some time to be made. Not everyone has insane skills, but maybe what you're seeing is the best that creator can do.

2011-09-22 08:34:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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1/10 is normal for good level beyond that means that your level is unusually good

2011-09-22 14:14:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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i would say 10x more yays than boos, its a good ratio but people on the highest rated levels have over 30x + yays than boos. But my "goal" would be 10x

2011-09-22 14:27:00 Author: Macasadia Posts: 153

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Maybe 10:1. I found that the ratio of users that rate to those that don't rate gets smaller the more plays a level gets (unless it's a MM pick or MM pick-worthy level), but I have no idea if the same happens with yat to boo ratio.

2011-09-22 15:16:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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I tend to look at the play to heart ratio, since hearts tend to be given more rarely. I never boo a level unless its down right offensive (only seen one), or I somehow find myself playing a level from a spammer or copier. Also, you have spam booers, who boo popular levels or creators, and spam boo every single positive comment in your level. These people are really angry for some reason, haha. Then you get the people who boo levels cause it was too hard, or they got stuck on a puzzle. Don't know, I don't look at ratios. I do look at reviews. I've saved myself a few plays by reading horrible reviews on very popular levels on the Cool Pages. In the end, I play whatever looks interesting and only reviews will change my mind one way or another on whether to play. Besides, I hate math, so I'll leave the ratios to other people.

2011-09-22 15:54:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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I only boo when there's been clearly no effort form the creator. When there's no consistent structure, it only has a few sponges tied by strings or bolts, a few clumsy enemies they might have made in no more than 5 minutes, elements that prizes from popular levels... to sum it up, total and inconsequential randomness the player just improvised in less than an hour. When a level is heavily flawed but I see there has been effort in making it, I either yay it or I remain neutral while giving feedback on how to improve. Anything whose flaws don't interfere with the progression and enjoyment I yay for sure. The levels I liked so much I'll be wanting to replay deserve a heart from me, so that when I have nothing new in my queue I go visit my hearted list and find something classic to play again. If a creator made a level or levels that will make me want to check out everything he/she makes in the future, I heart him/her. It's a simple process. I get how there's people that don't rate, but not how there's so many of them even in awesomely great levels. I find myself in a neutral stance very rarely.

2011-09-22 16:35:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Well, I don't boo a level cause its extremely poorly made. I assume a child made it and move on. I just hate when I get messages to asking me to play their level, and I do and its dark matter with strings and sponge and a hundred spikes. Great! I'm talking to a six year old! Haha. So if I come across a bad level, since I don't know there age, I typically just leave it alone.

2011-09-22 17:02:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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I look for attention to detail and solid logic. Practical example: You can make a sackbot fire a piece of something and kill an enemy, just like that by wiring something to the emitter. Now if you make it so it has a nice animation to go with it, the actual bullet acts as it should, good sounds are in place, perhaps ammo and a reload system... all of that makes the one basic action to kill the enemy a lot more entertaining to play with/watch; Anything like this, even if it's just simple things, but are solidly made, is an instant yay from me. Now if there are bugs, from small to big ones, but the solid logic and details are there, I'll usually leave a Yay along with the reasons why I could have given it a Boo. If I see the creator has potential to create very nice stuff, but they seem like they just don't care too much, then that's a solid boo (most of the times also leaving a review explaining why). As for levels that you can clearly see were made by children and what not, I usually don't bother leaving a review or a Yay/boo, and just move on to the next level. As for basic platformer levels that look like main Story levels, or at least aim for that, it's plenty clear why would people Boo them. Those people are most likely looking for innovation, they take what they saw in the main story levels, and can't wait to go into the community levels to see how people have used those mechanics in better, more improved ways. When they don't see that, the disappointment drives them to boo the level.

2011-09-22 20:21:00 Author: MonarioBabii Posts: 128

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I disagree with more than I agree with points made in here so far. The easiest thing to agree to is that levels with very high play counts can suffer massive boo's purely out of jealousy. I don't honestly think hiding the rating until after you play would change my own thoughts or feelings on a level, I take any level as I find them, very very rare to boo something. I do feel a lot of content out there has been put up by a child and I don't feel right booing anything that could be the work of a 7 year old. On the very rare occasion I do give out a boo, I'll always give a reason. Typical example is something bugs making the level unplayable and I (even being a newbie still) can see the problem and know an easy fix... Something like that might get a boo. Taking out the boo completely I don't agree with either, looking at rate ups and hearts alone are no guarantee the level is worth much and tbh (see cool pages!). I've found plenty of people actually just don't bother to rate, nothing to do with not feeling you deserve a boo or yay, they simply forget. I've had someone leave great comments on my level and yet no yay or boo. Or have someone heart it without yaying! Doesn't make sense to me, but it's how it is. I don't agree with whoever suggested hearting takes effort, it's the same work as a yay or a boo. About my only suggestion would be is that if you are giving out a boo, it requires a review with at least 2 tags and a dozen characters, can be done in 10 seconds, if you really feel something deserves a boo, say why... Diminishes with very highly played levels, but as someone like myself who has a couple of hundred total plays and 5 or so boo's, it's easy for me to pay attention/keep track of and if you do boo I'd like to know if there was a problem or whatever the issue is so that I may correct it or understand your disliking and give it consideration for future work. Only 1 person I think gave a reason with their boo, the others I asked and they said they got stuck/couldn't figure it out (not level breaking stuck, they just couldn't figure it out). Personally id say that's a boo to the player, not the creator, unless they expect you to just know to push an invisible switch and stand in a certain spot for 10 secs with no indication that is what is required of you! EDIT: didn't answer OP Q! I guess a tenth boo's is ok (kids!). But various factors change that. Such as a masterpiece made by a great and well known creator, that rule goes out the window. Also a difficult level, be it skill or puzzle wise will also suffer an increased amount of boo's because the kiddies can't figure it out and blame you for their problems! I actually just blogged last week that I was hoping for "only" (!) a third boo's from my latest level, as it's tough (ish), delighted to say it's nowhere near that.... Yet ^^

2011-09-23 04:12:00 Author: Masseyf Posts: 226

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it's all really relative. Anything with more positives than negatives is acceptable. I would venture to say that anything with a 4-1 or better is good (that's 80% approval among voters). 10 -1 is really good at around 91% approval. People are far more quick to downrate something they don't like than they are to give a thumbs up to something they thought was pretty good. I agree with Omega though. The boo is a good idea in theory, but it just gets abused, and can discourage people that just may be really great at creating but had a bad first run. I rarely ever boo a level, which is probably why I may be more reserved than a lot of people with my yays and hearts. The thing about ratios though is that they only really make sense after a lot have people have played. For those of us lucky to get 100 plays, the ratios are almost irrelevant. You get 1 group of people coming through that don't care for your style of level, and your whole stat is thrown way off. I think up to 100 plays, holding a 5-1 is impressive. After 1000 plays things should even out enough that the ratio becomes more indicative. I still go by reviews and comments.

2011-09-24 03:17:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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yays are good, but hearts means the player LOVED it. I think it's more important to compare heart and boos than yays and boos. A lot of times I yay a level because I see it had some effort put into it. But doesn't mean I loved it or saw ways it could improve or it completely WOWED me.

2011-09-24 03:33:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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i completely ignore boo's too, i look at the play to yay ratio, and play to heart ratio, but to be honest i dont play many community levels anyway as 99% of my time is spent in create mode, i mainly play levels that are published by people in my friend list. but having said that i'm quite proud of the boo to play ratio of my latest level, 173 boos, 5204 yays, 3758 hearts, 10095 plays,

2011-09-25 03:17:00 Author: evret Posts: 612

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Firstly: Yay/Boo ratio doesn't mean much to me due to the fact that the one level is currently published has an 100% yay ratio. Secondly: And the reason why I don't see that as an achievement? That level barely took 2-3 hours to create and took absolutely no effort whatsoever. The two levels I'm making now have eaten up over 100 hours of my time and I bet you that they'll end up with a few boos for unnoticeable or meaningless stuff. :/

2011-09-25 23:08:00 Author: abyssalassassin Posts: 717

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