Archive: 23 posts

---

News Article (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/09/mandatory-ps3-update-removes-right-to-join-in-a-class-action-lawsuit.ars) The news article says it all, but what do you think? Was this a sneaky move on Sony's part? Will you be sending a letter to opt out of this, thus holding off on updating your PS3? I for one think this was a good way to get people to read what they're agreeing to from now on. Also, if you don't agree, you can't update. Which means you won't be able to play online. You'd be limited to Story mode for some time...

2011-09-17 08:52:00 Author: Flamento Posts: 352

---

Not quite true. You still accept the update and then within 30 days submit your written notification that you wish to opt out of clause 15. But that would only affect people involved in a class action law suit - which would be the extreme minority I would imagine. And they're not doing it secretly or anything - it's written there in black & white in the terms and conditions which you accept. It's not Sony's fault if you decide not to read it.

2011-09-17 09:39:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

It's Ok, it's their right

2011-09-17 10:03:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

---

Seems to be exclusive to the American region, no other accounts prompted an agreement to a new TOS.

2011-09-17 12:51:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

---

I imagine this is in reaction to a number of class action lawsuits that were brought against Sony after they failed to encrypt customer data and lost it.

2011-09-17 13:22:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

---

Yeah, Class-action lawsuits are specific to American law I believe. I guess it's to protect themselves against Americas overly litigious society.

2011-09-17 13:28:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

For those that might not know, this is a growing trend. Unfortunately, lawmakers in Congress continue to ignore this problem. Indeed, you can't get a credit card or sign up for any sort of financial agreement such as a cell phone without waiving away your constitutional rights to a trial. It's a sad state of affairs, but hopefully the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will be able to address this issue in the next couple years. Unlike other contracts, though, Sony is allowing you to opt out of this ridiculous legal malarkey. All it takes is a letter and a stamp. Melissa and I already have our letters typed up and signed, and will be mailing them out on Monday. http://www.geek.com/articles/games/in-the-new-psn-terms-of-service-you-agree-to-never-sue-sony-20110915/ Sad thing is, most people don't care about the fine print and only find out what they've signed after it's too late. It's only then that they're forced to find out how the third party commercial arbitration industry gets to decide the outcome of their case. In all cases, the arbitration parties are conveniently selected by whatever company you've signed a contract, and your outcome is already bought and paid for. And the arbitration decision is legally binding and leaves absolutely no option for recourse.

2011-09-17 13:41:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

---

If I owned a company I'd be drooling at the prospect of taking away any consumer's rights to bring me to court, one less thing to worry about. Any damages my consumers incur using my product is then down to them, it only wrecks their life and protects my profit.

2011-09-17 14:09:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

---

The thing is - for all that business of "Sony Lost My Data - I'LL SUE!!!", Has there actually been even one specific incident of anyone having either their identity stolen or money stolen from their account directly attributed to Sony's data breach? And Sony was quite generous with the reimbursment package for the lost down-time. I mean, are any of you actually planning to tackle Sony in a class-action lawsuit? Do you really expect to win?

2011-09-17 14:20:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

Well, it's not about winning... it's about not signing away my rights. Principle over practicality, really.

2011-09-17 14:28:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

---

Oh, so this is only in NA? The only place in the world where you can sue a company for stuff like launching a new version of a product 6 months after the original coming out and win millions of dollars instead of being laughed at. Now I understand why they came up with this

2011-09-17 14:48:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

---

Has there actually been even one specific incident of anyone having either their identity stolen or money stolen from their account directly attributed to Sony's data breach? I don't know, but when it happened to WoW it wasn't until a year later that peoples data started to be used for ID theft and the like.

2011-09-17 15:02:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

---

Well, for anyone interested in what class-action lawsuits are all about, just check out the recent documentary on HBO called Hot Coffee (http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/hot-coffee/index.html#/documentaries/hot-coffee/synopsis.html). Most people (incorrectly) assume that America is inundated with frivolous lawsuits and the system is riddled with so many holes that corporations have no choice but to put these clauses in their contracts. Tort reform (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tort_reform) is an oft misunderstood political topic that most American voters gloss over or dismiss out of hand.

2011-09-17 15:04:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

---

Yeah, where would the rest of the world get this (incorrect) assumption that America is full of lawsuits filed for the dumbest things imaginable? Oh wait - maybe because it's true?! Like the girl who sued a haunted house because it frightened her; Or the guy that sued Michael Jordan because people kept telling him "You look a bit like Michael Jordan"; or the woman that tried to sue kellogs because her cornflakes didn't dance like in the adverts; Or the woman that sued when she microwaved her dog "because it didn't say 'not' to put dogs in the microwave"; Or the man that tried to sue himself for violating his own human rights because he got drunk, committed some crimes and got arrested; Or the woman that sued Starbucks for giving her a tea made with boiling water (I assume she would have sued if it had been cold tea aswell); Or the guy that sued a family whos boy he had run over and killed for the damage caused to his car; Or the woman that tried to sue a TV station because the weather report said "fair" when in fact it rained; There are many, many, many more examples. It's because of these lawsuits that products now contain idiotic warnings like "Caution: Do Not Put Pets In Microwave!" Granted (nearly) all of those cases were thrown out of court - but they actually made it as far as court Ah - America - you're good for a laugh if nothing else

2011-09-17 15:36:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

>_> Can you go one day, no a few hours, without trying to make America look like a country full of frivolous, fat, idiots. Maybe you don't have the capacity to realize this, but Americans are people too. Just like any country, we do have some laughable incidents. America is in the spotlight though, so anything that happens here becomes part of the Sunday funnies in newspapers across the world. People will read it, point and laugh, while their own country struggles with much bigger problems. Let's just sweep it under the carpet and laugh at America though. They aren't people, but fictional characters for you to laugh at. On topic with the new clause, I believe Sony should be taking measures to protect themselves at this time. They are any easy target right now. Now whether this clause is an appropriate way of doing that is another question.

2011-09-17 20:35:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

---

Jiggedy Jackman. As a college educated, vegetarian, atheist, liberal American, I would like to set myself apart from all the frivolity and fat American stereotypes, please. Mac, please continue making good points, but please put "Except poorjack" at the end... Or I might sue

2011-09-17 22:57:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

---

Ahh lighten up you lot. You have to admit some of those lawsuits are pretty funny. It's actually quite interesting, the reasons behind America's letigious society. It's down to the fact that America was born out of a reaction to the British monarchy... a way to vest financial control away from the european powers and take control for themselves. And because of this there is a deep-seated mistrust of central authority in built into the system that did everything it could to limit the powers of that central authority and promote the powers of the individual. An unexpected consequence of this is that now the central authority (The President) is largely powerless, despite being free voted into a supposed position of power - so instead, social change and social justice is led by the courts (the individual), rather than by the government. Just about every major social advancement in America was led by the courts first and acknowledged by government second. - But that social advancement also includes things like "Caution: Do Not Put Pets in The Microwave" warnings on all microwaves And besides, I live in a country where in parts of Glasgow (just down the road from me) - the average life expectancy of a man is 54 years old (Thank you very much deep fried mars bar!) [in the Gaza Strip - average life expectancy is 70]. We have to get our laughs somewhere

2011-09-18 08:43:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

Yeah, where would the rest of the world get this (incorrect) assumption that America is full of lawsuits filed for the dumbest things imaginable? Oh wait - maybe because it's true?! I forgot about the fact that every layperson with a television in this world is not only a legal expert with a doctorate in nearly every form of law, but also understands all the legal nuances of every single case, and has seen and analyzed all the evidence and testimony for those cases, and, by logical conclusion, are the best person to preside as judge and jury over those cases. Sorry Macnme, but you're no better than Nancy Grey in this case. Look, Macnme, we disagree on these forums a lot, but you presume to know a lot about each of the cases you listed but I guarantee you know very little or nothing other than what you heard about in a thirty-second story on the news or read on some internet website. Fact is, it is these very blurbs on the news that continue to perpetuate the myth that the U.S. is inundated with these cases. It is simultaneously true that you do not hear of the thousands of other non-frivolous cases on the six-o'clock news. Are there frivolous lawsuits? Of course. But the only reason you hear about them is because they sell papers and bring in TV ratings. Watch the documentary I posted earlier. You'd be surprised. Lastly, just because there are frivolous lawsuits, one should not be required to waive a constitutional right in order to enter a contract where they are forced into arbitration where the outcome of the decision is already paid for decided. Anyways, for the OP: don't sign away your rights to a trial unless you know better.

2011-09-18 17:42:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

---

Of course theyr'e not going to report on the 1000's of mundane cases - precicely because they're mundane. And of course the only reason we hear about them is because they are out of the ordinary - and as the only cases you normaly hear about are out of the ordinary, it gives a skewed impression. Doesn't stop them being funny though. Even if they were made up stories, they'd still be funny. I also think it's funny that Sony feel they need to protect themselves from America's letigious nature by pre-empting it. I mean, unless Sony deliberatly or maliciously give away or sell their users details to gangsters, I'm struggling to think of a circumstance during your normal cycle of "switch on console - play a few games - switch off console" - that would warrant a multi-million dollar class action lawsuit? "Hey - that guy cheated in a multiplayer! I'LL SUE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeXQBHLIPcw *I will watch that Documentary when I get the time - I promise

2011-09-19 08:27:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

Well, it seems a little worrying, but with clickwrap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickwrap) licenses it's worth bearing in mind that... ...even though courts have ruled some clickwrap licenses to be enforceable contracts, it does not follow that every term of every clickwrap license is enforceable. Clickwrap licenses must still meet the criteria for enforceability of a unilateral form contract. ...and such a clause would arguably violate The Bill of Rights in the United States, so it may well not be enforcable. Still, there's no legal precedent for such a case, so it's anyone's guess as to whether it's valid or not.

2011-09-19 16:35:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

---

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195833p1.html According to page 17 of the document, a customer has the "right to opt out of binding arbitration and class action waiver within 30 days." The document continues: "If you do not wish to be bound by the binding arbitration and class action waiver in section 15, you must notify SNEI in writing within 30 days of the date that you accept the agreement." In other words, a letter must be mailed to Sony in order to not be bound by the new terms. Here's how to send it. Send your letter to: SNEI 6080 Center Drive 10th Floor Los Angeles, CA 90045 ATTN: Legal Department/Arbitration Within that letter, you'll need to mention: Your name Your address Your PSN account number* A clear statement that you do not wish to resolve disputes with any Sony entity through arbitration. (*We assume this means your PSN name--not your credit card number--but we've reached out to Sony to confirm.) According to a Sony spokesperson, the decision to include the waiver is largely because of a Supreme Court ruling earlier this year. "The Supreme Court recently ruled in the AT&T case that language like this is enforceable," Sony told CNN "The updated language in the TOS is designed to benefit both the consumer and the company by ensuring that there is adequate time and procedures to resolve disputes."

2011-09-22 13:55:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

---

I saw this and thought of you http://www.jeffbridges.com/images/may2004/toyota_1.jpg (not trying to whip anyone into a frenzy of anti-americanism, it's just a funny pic I saw online - ever so slightly relevant to this thread, that I thought I'd share)

2011-09-23 19:33:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

---

I saw this and thought of you http://www.jeffbridges.com/images/may2004/toyota_1.jpg (not trying to whip anyone into a frenzy of anti-americanism, it's just a funny pic I saw online - ever so slightly relevant to this thread, that I thought I'd share) XD Made my day.

2011-09-23 19:39:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.