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Petition Against Severe Animal Cruelty in China

Archive: 49 posts

from the PTROA petition page:

"Tens of millions of animals are slaughtered and butchered in China each year. Animal fur is in high demand, and the Chinese deliver. What does not get exported outside of China usually ends up on a dinner plate. The sad fact is that the animals suffer horrendous torture. They are captured on the streets, and packed by the dozens into small cages, without ability to move. They are then tossed like inanimate objects from the trucks, onto the ground, hitting each other and the steel cages. These cages are later stacked, and the real nightmare begins..."




From the PTROA petition page:
...The animal is brutally pulled out of the cage, and tied to prevent resistance. It is lightly stunned by a blow on the head, but still alive. If the animal is not heavy, the worker holds it by its hind legs, waves it in the air and then bashes its head against the ground. Once the animal is subdued, a new and incomprehensible stage in this ongoing nightmare begins. The worker cuts a tiny incision in the animal's rear, and then methodically peels away the skin. This skinning process takes about a minute, during which the worker actively keeps the animal alive, as it is believed that it is easier to skin the animal while it is still warm and blood flows through its veins. The nightmare does not end here. The final stage in this unbelievable horror is when the animal is tossed aside, and slowly, amidst a heap of its dying friends, it perishes as it is no longer able to withstand the pain. In other cases, when the animal's fur is not needed (mostly with cats), the animals are put in a sack, and are then cooked alive in a barrel of boiling water. This process is extremely hard to digest, but we believe it is not propelled by cruelty, but rather by ignorance and lack of awareness to animal needs. The workers do not think to kill the animal before they begin, and are not aware of the animal's suffering. Our commitment is to provide enlightenment. It is our moral obligation to these animals.





There is an online petition going on in an attempt to end this horrendous suffering:














The petition states:




"To the Government of the People's Republic of China,




We who sign this petition come from countries all around the world, regardless of gender, race, worldview or political association.


We, the petitioners, are very concerned regarding the situation of animal welfare in China.






Although it is customary to eat animal meat all over the world, we see very severely the fact that before their meat reaches the plate, animals are put through inhumane suffering.




The removal of animal skin or cooking animals while they are still alive is extremely cruel. The hunting and capturing of animals in the street, as well as keeping them in harsh and degrading conditions, is a badge of shame for the Chinese people. This is not how we would like to see such a respectable and great nation as yours. However, the reality in China in regard to the condition of its animals today is not something one can simply ignore.


Every animal has the right to live in dignity.


The way we treat those who are weaker than us determines who we are, and it is our moral duty to take care of those who are the weakest among us.


















Many animals in China and the world are born into the horror of pain and suffering and die in the same manner, without one moment of happiness, without one moment of compassion. But because of China's size and its enormous population, the suffering of animals in this country is a thousand times worse.


China is a great nation, with a glorious history, and it is our hope to see China lead a revolution in this area, and to see the Chinese government pass laws for the animals.






We ask you, in the name of morality, in the name of the animals that have suffered greatly, both in life and in death, in the name of the animals that are right now going through these terrible agonies, in the name of every citizen in the world that cares and in the name of the Chinese citizens who care, we ask and even demand that you act so that the animals in your area will have an honourable life, that they will not die in agony, that they will not suffer while they still live.




Please, pass laws for the welfare of animals as soon as possible:


Please, forbid the killing of animals in cruel ways (suffocating them to death, cooking them while they are alive, skinning them of their fur while still alive, thrusting their heads to the ground, beating them with sticks and stones, etc.) and pass a law requiring that animals be put to death humanely.


Please, ban the transportation of animals in a way that hurts and disgraces them (squeezing many animals in small cages, throwing them off vehicles, tying their limbs behind their backs, gagging them and tying them to each other in various ways) and pass laws regulating the transport of animals.


Please, ban the holding of animals in harsh conditions (holding them in cages in the market without any food, water or shelter from the sun and the rain), and pass a law for holding animals in a humane manner.


Please, pass legislation determining which animals are considered pets and protect them ? pass a law forbidding the consumption of pet animals. Please define cats and dogs as pets, and forbid their consumption and the selling of their flesh in streets and markets.


Please ban the capturing of pet in the streets and from private yards, and forbid unsupervised holding or slaughtering.














Please, enforce these laws and determine punishment for whoever breaks them.


We ask you to give animals the dignity they deserve.


We carry our eyes to you, the Chinese government, and to you, the Chinese people, in hopes that you will lead the change within you.


We believe that this change will be a sign and a light to the whole world.


We sign this petition in the name of the animals of China, and in the name of animals everywhere.













http://www.ptroa.co.il/petition/images/petition_content/content_logo.png PTROA




Preserving The Rights Of Animals





http://www.ptroa.co.il/petition/images/petition_content/stamp.png "












The petition can be signed here (http://www.ptroa.co.il/petition/index.php) *


You can also donatehere (http://www.ptroa.co.il/petition/donation.php)




Please note that the petition page contains a video with EXTREMELY graphic and disturbing content.






It will not begin playing unless deliberately clicked on.





I haven't seen it myself(I simply can't bare to), but if you decide to watch it, you watch it at your own risk.*



I will never understand how any human being can commit such inhumanities and yet not think for a second about exactly what it is they're doing: torturing a living thing that has feelings just like they do.





There's no reason for it, and we must do what little we can to end it once and for all.


Thank you for your time.


~Ninja		2011-09-16 15:16:00

Author:
Ninjaferret22
Posts: 1403

Not signed;
& I'll tell you for why;

KFC. The Colonel's secret ingredient is Chicken Terror.
It may surprise you to learn that a majority of the Chicken that China eats comes from US "Battery Chicken" farms... also a "Hell on Earth" for Animals. Born in cages not big enough for them to spread their wings, or even turn around in their cage - never seeing the sun. Genetically modified to grow fast, faster than their bones can cope with, so they become hobbled.

How does the saying go?
Judge not lest Ye be Judged.

Sort out your own back yard before complaining about your neighbours 		2011-09-16 15:51:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

The human race disgusts me sometime. >>

Thanks for spreading the word.


Not signed;
& I'll tell you for why;

KFC. The Colonel's secret ingredient is Chicken Terror.
It may surprise you to learn that a majority of the Chicken that China eats comes from US "Battery Chicken" farms... also a "Hell on Earth" for Animals. Born in cages not big enough for them to spread their wings, or even turn around in their cage - never seeing the sun. Genetically modified to grow fast, faster than their bones can cope with, so they become hobbled.

How does the saying go?
Judge not lest Ye be Judged.

Sort out your own back yard before complaining about your neighbours

So you're saying this isn't a problem because the western world does it too? I see this movement as a small step towards the global ethical treatment of animals. We do have a little more care for animals over here than China, but generally, it's all disgusting and your type of attitude is part of the whole problem... (trying not to hate on you too much. )		2011-09-16 15:54:00

Author:
Leather-Monkey
Posts: 2266

Yeah, but why are you picking on China specifically?

There's an inherent xenophobia involved with this petition that I don't quite like. As if China is the only one's guilty of any animal cruelty.

China is an awesome place.		2011-09-16 15:56:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

I signed because it's a good cause and I just can't imagine someone harming adorable animals like that, but I think the violation of human rights in China is a higher priority than teh kittehz right now.2011-09-16 15:58:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

Yeah, but why are you picking on China specifically?

There's an inherent xenophobia involved with this petition that I don't quite like.

Maybe if it were specifically about the U.S it would make you happier? 		2011-09-16 15:59:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Nope, you think I'm "anti-american" - but actually I'm "Anti-hypocricy";
It just so happens America is one of the biggest hypocrites.

Petitioning the UN to have ALL member states comply with an agreed standard of human rights and animal welfare - (rather than saying one country can and another country can't) - would definately get my signature 		2011-09-16 16:06:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Yeah, why exactly are we aiming this directly at China? It's not like we're any better >_> Why are we trying to get another country to adopt practices yet not try to do it here in America? Yeah, sure, "one small step" and all that ****... but if you're trying to reduce something on a global scale, don't just make it seem like it's only the country everyone's afraid of that does it >_>2011-09-16 16:09:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

So you're saying this isn't a problem because the western world does it too? I see this movement as a small step towards the global ethical treatment of animals. We do have a little more care for animals over here than China, but generally, it's all disgusting and your type of attitude is part of the whole problem... (trying not to hate on you too much. )

I'm saying that if you've ever eaten at KFC (I've eaten at KFC, but I stopped once I found out how they treat the Chickens), then you are complicit in Animal Cruelty, are a massive hypocrite "and your type of attitude is part of the whole problem".

It seems that because the animals are cute and fluffy and in a different country, you've got a problem - but if you consider them to be deliciously edible, and you're used to how your own country treats them, you couldn't care less.

Right back at you. 		2011-09-16 16:14:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

I'm a vegetarian, so no hypocrisy coming from me.

But I do agree with what you're saying, partly. I just think it would be wrong to ignore this problem simply because it's wide-spread.		2011-09-16 16:38:00

Author:
Leather-Monkey
Posts: 2266

I'm a vegetarian, so no hypocrisy coming from me.

But I do agree with what you're saying, partly. I just think it would be wrong to ignore this problem simply because it's wide-spread.

Indeed, we shouldn't ignore the problem.

The problem here, however, isn't the problem in which they're talking about. No, the problem is that they say the problem is especially bad in China, aka our, shall we say, "problem" country. I would say that's problematic, wouldn't you?

If they focused their efforts on a worldwide campaign, that'd be great and I'd be all for it, assuming they don't do anything stupid like PETA. Or hey, if they aimed at their own countries, that'd also be great. But to make it seem like the problem is worse in our chief rival and that THEY should be the ones to alter their lifestyles, but we don't have to... that's just... a problem. :kz:		2011-09-16 16:43:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

I'm the one not ignoring it - everyone who just signs this petition, patting themselves on the back and thinking "Job Done" and "aren't China a backwards country" - are the ones ignoring the wider issue.

Don't get me wrong (why do I always end up saying that on these forums?!) ;
I am in no way FOR animal cruelty - I'm just explining why I'm not signing the petition (in my usual forceful way).

Sign the petition if you feel a compulsion to do so. But know that while the hypocricy of "Do as I say, not as I do" remains - it won't do much good.		2011-09-16 16:59:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

There is an understandable arguement made here.


Not signed;
& I'll tell you for why;

KFC. The Colonel's secret ingredient is Chicken Terror.
It may surprise you to learn that a majority of the Chicken that China eats comes from US "Battery Chicken" farms... also a "Hell on Earth" for Animals. Born in cages not big enough for them to spread their wings, or even turn around in their cage - never seeing the sun. Genetically modified to grow fast, faster than their bones can cope with, so they become hobbled.

How does the saying go?
Judge not lest Ye be Judged.

Sort out your own back yard before complaining about your neighbours
Yes, I knew that already.
I've seen the conditions that chickens ar kept under in the U.S- I've seen it in person and on TV; and it's not just chickens, it's cows and other livestock too. It enfuriates me all the same and is no better than what's happening in China.
I don't speak for whoever makes the decisions to treat animals that way in my country, I only speak for myself, and I am against it.

If I had the power to, i'd end it aswell; If I knew of a petition going on to end that particular form of animal cruelty, i'd advertise and sign it too. As a matter of fact, if there is one, why don't you tell me about it so I can?
I posted this because I came across it- If I came across for one for some animal rights issue in the U.S i'd sign it too.

I'd even start one myself, but I can't; I don't know how and i'm only 14.





Yeah, but why are you picking on China specifically?

There's an inherent xenophobia involved with this petition that I don't quite like. As if China is the only one's guilty of any animal cruelty.

China is an awesome place.
The petition isn't against China, it's agains the cruelty that is being commited by certain people there. it's because a few people that saw what was happening there reported it to the PTROA orginization.
PTROA focuses on all forms of animal cruelty everywhere-if something is reported to them, they look into it.
As a direct quote from their site their mission is:

spotting and exposing dog fights, animal abuse, negligence, Illegal commerce in animal fur, Illegal experiments on animals, criminal offense on livestock, smuggling, holding illegally wild animals, illegal animal shows.
The basis of the existence of the organization and its nature were created from within the recognition of the natural privilege of all animals to live in a respectfully way. The organization centers its effort in the field of the intelligence and gathering information, parallel to the informative activity in order to raise the awareness among the general population and especially the young generation, regarding the foundation rights of animals. Keeping all animal rights in a determine way is the guiding principal of the organization which creating its framework.
Also, they are centered in Isreal, not the United States.




Nope, you think I'm "anti-american" - but actually I'm "Anti-hypocricy";
It just so happens America is one of the biggest hypocrites.

Petitioning the UN to have ALL member states comply with an agreed standard of human rights and animal welfare - (rather than saying one country can and another country can't) - would definately get my signature

I agree.
Alot of Americans are hypocrites, especially our government officials (I often wonder how they put on their pants in the morning to be honest).
And your Idea is just plain reasonable, but it won't happen anytime soon for whatever ridiculous reason. I can imagine something like that being controversial and frustrating to organise, even though it really shouldn't be.

Yeah, why exactly are we aiming this directly at China? It's not like we're any better >_> Why are we trying to get another country to adopt practices yet not try to do it here in America? Yeah, sure, "one small step" and all that ****... but if you're trying to reduce something on a global scale, don't just make it seem like it's only the country everyone's afraid of that does it >_>
No, we aren't any better, but this petition isn't even by a U.S orginization, so I have no Idea where the
"United States V.S China" thing, or a "Country1 blaming Country2 for something bad that that Country1 also does just because Country2 is another country" came from; -I don't understand why you see it that way-
It's more like "those individual people are doing that bad thing to those animals and it seems pretty inhumane and painful so lets do what we can to stop it and make things more reasonable."



I'm saying that if you've ever eaten at KFC (I've eaten at KFC, but I stopped once I found out how they treat the Chickens), then you are complicit in Animal Cruelty, are a massive hypocrite "and your type of attitude is part of the whole problem".

It seems that because the animals are cute and fluffy and in a different country, you've got a problem - but if you consider them to be deliciously edible, and you're used to how your own country treats them, you couldn't care less.

Right back at you.
It's not because they're fluffy, it's because they having their very skin ripped off they're bodies while they're alive. In the U.S, chickens are not skinned alive that i' aware of(not to defend the way we do treat them however; it's still terrible in it's own right and I'm not ok with it) ; if they did, and again, if I came across a petition against it, I'd sign it and post it here too.


Indeed, we shouldn't ignore the problem.

The problem here, however, isn't the problem in which they're talking about. No, the problem is that they say the problem is especially bad in China, aka our, shall we say, "problem" country. I would say that's problematic, wouldn't you?

If they focused their efforts on a worldwide campaign, that'd be great and I'd be all for it, assuming they don't do anything stupid like PETA. Or hey, if they aimed at their own countries, that'd also be great. But to make it seem like the problem is worse in our chief rival and that THEY should be the ones to alter their lifestyles, but we don't have to... that's just... a problem. :kz:



Again, I posted this because I found it and felt I should show others so that they may also sign it if they want- I didn't want to spark a conflict, but I guess it was unavoidable seeing as to how many people like to argue here.

It'd be great if they had a National campaign- I'm sure China isn't the only place that skins and boils animals alive, but perhaps that would be more difficult than focusing on one place at a time.
I can only imagine that accusing somebody of animal cruelty takes a bit of investigation- I'm sure this organization works to do what's in it's power to stop the injustices that are reported to them, no matter where in the world they take place. Yes, they probably have their flaws(all orginizations and all people do), but they mean good, all they want to do is help animals, not point fingers at other countries, and they are also focused on preventing animal abuse in their own country too, ya'know.

I don't agree that animal cruelty is a worse issue in China than anywhere else, or that animals are treated worse than people in China, or with a few other things mentioned in the petition; I just signed this and posted it because I found it and it helps a little bit to stop something that I don't agree with and think is awful no matter who does it.

I'm a naive child, and more likely than not I have no Idea what i'm talking about, but I know what I believe is right and what's wrong, and skinning a living thing alive is wrong by my standards.		2011-09-16 18:32:00

Author:
Ninjaferret22
Posts: 1403

Don't worry kiddo, this is just how I discuss things - some find it antagonistic, but it isn't meant to be so. I just have a 'contrary' view of the world. It's my problem not yours.
We're all friends here - even when we disagree about stuff.

You posted this just before I edited my previous comment.

Good for you for having a cause.		2011-09-16 18:37:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Don't worry kiddo, this is just how I discuss things - some find it antagonistic, but it isn't meant to be so. I just have a 'contrary' view of the world. It's my problem not yours.
We're all friends here - even when we disagree about stuff.

You posted this just before I edited my previous comment.

Good for you for having a cause.
I understand.

Or perhaps I don't..

I don't even know anymore!

Oh well; what I do know is that I know this petition might not accomplish much, but it accomplishes something, and that's what matters.. To me, at least.
We all wish we could end cruelty in a quick and reasonable way, but the world just doesn't work that way. People don't work that way. If we ever do accomplish such a thing, it would take time. Much time, and many compromises.		2011-09-16 19:00:00

Author:
Ninjaferret22
Posts: 1403

As if animals kill each other in a different manner? I suppose youre going to petition against Lions in Africa not to kill people stupid enough to approach a lion and get mauled to death. As if theres a more humane manner to kill them, its not like i dont support your cause, but its just that nobody isnt going to do anything about it, i love animals, but its like saying, " Dont make their death quick and painful, just make it slow and painful, and pack them closer together since we cant kill them that fast." And do you realise who youre making the petition to? China. CHINA. Communists who have lower morality levels than Hitler. They dont have that sense of "Life is important" They have the sense of "Theyre stupid and worthless, so lets turn them into fur coats and stew and make LOTS of money".2011-09-17 00:12:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

China. CHINA. Communists who have lower morality levels than Hitler.

No. no. Just... just no. I mean... just... no.		2011-09-17 00:46:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

All I have to say is..
This is terrible
It hurts me inside to hear stories about Animal cruelty. It makes me feel so sad hearing stuff like this.
I pray that someday there'll be a difference in animal cruelty.
Now.. I'm leaving and keeping my answer here.. It's all I have to say..		2011-09-17 03:41:00

Author:
Unknown User

And do you realise who youre making the petition to? China. CHINA. Communists who have lower morality levels than Hitler.

Yeah, I'm going to have to pull you up on that.

China, because of it's communist idealism, has a much greater sense of community spirit than most places - certainly more so than Scotland does. Even in the big cities.

When I visited China earlier this year, I walked around amazed at all of the things that the Chinese government does for it's people - that over here we'd either be charged for (so only the people who can afford it would have access), or it just plain wouldn't be done because we'd ruin it with graffiti or vandalism.

When I went out to one of the small, poorer villiages - they showed me such amazing hospitality, I thought I was being treated specially and they were putting on a show for "the westerner"... then my taxi arrived - and they treated the Taxi driver with exactly the same gracious hospitality as they did for me.

Really - don't believe everything you hear. We only get the sensationalist stories about how bad China is, and that's set against the back-drop of the old "Communist vs Capitalist" propaganda. The truth is we are more like them than we would care to admit, and that's not a bad thing.

I loved it so much I'm going back next year.


But aside from all that - the idea of treating animals with dignity and not as a commodity is still a relatively new concept - which most countries still haven't gotten their heads around.		2011-09-17 09:15:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Vegan kid signed.2011-09-20 17:10:00

Author:
Sackwise
Posts: 305

I dont see why people have the need to hurt animals. All animals know and want in return is just someone to care and to love them.2011-09-20 17:16:00

Author:
The_Lil_JoKeR
Posts: 745

I dont see why people have the need to hurt animals. All animals know and want in return is just someone to care and to love them.

... Ok, I know you love animals or whatever, but please, don't try and make them all out to be symbols of pure love or whatever. All animals want are two basic things: food and sex. Essentially, their survival. animals don't want "love" or whatever human qualities you're implanting on them. They want to survive. That's it. We've only made it so that a few animals depend on us for survival. But please, just... don't make them out to be more human then they really are >_>		2011-09-20 17:33:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Not going to sign it on the same grounds of hypocrisy that Mac already stated. And also really not sympathetic towards someone who'd compare modern day China to Nazi Germany, it's frankly insulting to both people who live in China and people who survived to horrors of the Third Reich. Sure, they have a lot of problems like rampant corruption, poor civil planning, sexism, severe sensorship and human rights abuses but Mao's Communist China is little more then a ghost not unlike Stalin's Russia and China today certainly isn't rounding up ethnic minorities by the millions and sending them to their deaths, nor is it making ham-fisted attempts at jack-booted world domination.

They don't treat animals well, but really most countries don't. America really isn't all that much better but that's largely because Americans don't believe things like tiger testicles increasing virility; Spain's national pastime to this day (regardless of how they want to romanticize it) is essentially slowly torturing bulls to death; and just about the best treatment of livestock you'll find on the planet is in Kobe, Japan where they basically treat their cows like royalty but that's only because of the belief that doing so makes the famous "Kobe Beef" taste better (tried some myself, and more then anything it just seemed like an extra-fatty rip-off) but in the end they are cattle to be devoured all the same, many of which wouldn't even be alive if humans weren't facilitating their numbers. It's brutal but humans hardly have a monopoly on brutality within the biosphere anyway (we just happen to be really successful predators).		2011-09-21 03:43:00

Author:
Dapiek Absaroka
Posts: 512

Sounds nasty. At least the battery farmed humans get to watch TV.2011-09-21 13:21:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

... Ok, I know you love animals or whatever, but please, don't try and make them all out to be symbols of pure love or whatever. All animals want are two basic things: food and sex. Essentially, their survival. animals don't want "love" or whatever human qualities you're implanting on them. They want to survive. That's it. We've only made it so that a few animals depend on us for survival. But please, just... don't make them out to be more human then they really are >_>
While I believe you are largely correct, there have been various news stories of animals taking "loving" actions in extreme conditions.
Apologies as I don't remember where I really saw all these news stories so I'm unable to link to all of them.

-There have been times where dogs have willingly lept in the way of the dog owner to stop an attack such as a gun shot.

-After the recent disaster at Japan, a dog there kept watch and stayed with his dog companion (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/dog-japan-stays-side-ailing-friend-rubble-20110316-073316-158.html) even when rescuers arrived.

-Koko, an intelligent gorilla, with sign language explained that she wanted a pet kitten, when she got one and named it All Ball, she played with it until a sad abrupt death, where the gorilla then became distressed: (http://ask.yahoo.com/20000905.html)


Unfortunately, their relationship ended abrubtly in December of 1984, when All Ball escaped from the gorilla cage and was killed by a car. Koko was extrememly distraught over the death of All Ball and spoke of it soon after:
When asked, "Do you want to talk about your kitty?"
Koko signed, "Cry."
"What happened to your kitty?"
Koko answered, "Sleep cat."
When she saw a picture of a cat who looked very much like All Ball, Koko pointed to the picture and signed, "Cry, sad, frown."Koko's mourning attracted a great deal of attention from the scientific community. Debates raged over whether or not animals have "emotions" in the human sense. -And I don't believe I saw this one on the internet but rather heard of it by word of mouth, but after a dog was hit by a car on the road, another dog came and dragged it off the road with it's paws (not teeth!) to safety.

So yeah some of the stories are unreliable and crazy but yeah. 		2011-09-21 22:23:00

Author:
warlord_evil
Posts: 4193

^ And all of those examples are of dogs, a species of animal we've bred to have complete and utter dependence for us, as well as being a highly sociable animal regardless. The only example that is NOT a dog is a gorilla, which is pretty close to a human anyway.

Yes, there are some animals that live in groups and can feel sadness when a companion is taken from them. But the anti-Chinese article in question is about the millions and millions of animals China slaughters each year... i.e., farm animals. Which do not really just want a human to hug them.

And even for animals that DO want a human to love them, it's not because that's what they naturally want. We just raise them to love us. Which is cool, since dogs are often regarded as the symbols of pure love for another being, thus teaching us that true love is not won by affection or mutual understanding, but by forced captivity and dependence.

Where was I? Oh yeah. Well, basically, animals do not want "love" or any of our human qualities, China is not any worse then the US, and you should all feel sick and ashamed for blaming China for things we do too. Kbai		2011-09-21 22:38:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

... Ok, I know you love animals or whatever, but please, don't try and make them all out to be symbols of pure love or whatever. All animals want are two basic things: food and sex. Essentially, their survival. animals don't want "love" or whatever human qualities you're implanting on them. They want to survive. That's it. We've only made it so that a few animals depend on us for survival. But please, just... don't make them out to be more human then they really are >_>


Human's aren't so fluffy though 		2011-09-21 22:56:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

Human's aren't so fluffy though

... How does that have any relevance to what I just said? At all? Even remotely?

I mean... wait. You... ... That is totally irrelevant.		2011-09-21 23:07:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

... Ok, I know you love animals or whatever, but please, don't try and make them all out to be symbols of pure love or whatever. All animals want are two basic things: food and sex. Essentially, their survival. animals don't want "love" or whatever human qualities you're implanting on them. They want to survive. That's it. We've only made it so that a few animals depend on us for survival. But please, just... don't make them out to be more human then they really are >_>

Wow, I don't know where to start..
Not to start any arguments, but that's not true.
Animals need love too, they're living walking creatures. Animals aren't "it's" or "whatever"; They're part of our lives that give us joy and happiness.
They don't just care about food and.. "That". So don't say it's all they care about.
http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Haters_Gonna_Hate.jpg		2011-09-21 23:10:00

Author:
Unknown User

While I support the cause, I'm not sure passing laws will accomplish much. This is China we're talking about. There's 1 billion people in there and most of them live without being affected by the government at all. While some companies might listen if China applies a law, most will probably ignore it and nothing will change. I'm still signing this petition but even if it works, I'm not expecting anything to change.2011-09-22 00:07:00

Author:
HappyGreenCactus
Posts: 247

Wow, I don't know where to start..
Not to start any arguments, but that's not true.
Animals need love too, they're living walking creatures. Animals aren't "it's" or "whatever"; They're part of our lives that give us joy and happiness.
They don't just care about food and.. "That". So don't say it's all they care about.

Please >_> You're implanting your own human needs onto another creature. Animals do not "just want" love. No matter how much you think a cow or a chicken or a bear or a lizard or whatever is yearning to feel love... that's just bollocks. Which is a stupid word. but i digress.

I did not say animals are "its" or "Whats". And yes, some animals are smarter then others that they do form rudimentary forms of emotions best performed by humans. But the person I was quoting said that they just wanted to be loved. And that's ********. They do not want to be loved by human beings. Most don't care about other animals. They care about survival. Saying that does not make me a "Hater" or whatever ******** that's spewing from your mouth now, but it makes me someone who is able to understand animals without having to relate them to human qualities. Animals have completely different needs than humans, and to portray them, as the original person I quoted said, as just cute little fluffy balls who just want something to love is just stupid. Animals are not humanesque creatures who just want love. For the most part, with a few simple examples, animals want food and sex. Yes, sex. It's a fundamental term, probably the most important act any species who reproduces can perform. You don't have to hide and call it "that". >_>		2011-09-22 01:04:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

...that's just bollocks. Which is a stupid word. but i digress.



BLASPHEMY! Bollocks is a glorious word that should be used on a daily basis! You are brave, American, for using such a sacred word to the British oath...i'll let it pass this time, but if I ever see you using it again, well, i'll have words with the Queen, let me tell you!

As for the original topic? I love all animals, especially my Kitty-Cat. Leave her alone and we'll get along juuuuust fine. Animals are brilliant! 		2011-09-22 01:17:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Yeah, this whole "animals don't want love thing" offends most of us that love animals, you may not thinks so, but most of us do. But hey, we all have our own agreements, right?
To me, my pets are family, it may seem stupid to you or anyone else that reads this. But this is my personal opinion, once you get attached to an animal, it's like a companionship, they're practically family.		2011-09-22 02:09:00

Author:
Unknown User

In my opinion, some animals do get to love humans, but just because that's their survival instinct acting. After all, you and your family are giant super-strong beings that protect and feed the animal in question, so it's their instinct to stay near and "love and protect" their owners, sorta like a pack of wolves stays together. But trust me, if your cat or dog grew up to the size of a horse, the least it would do would be abandon you.

Doesn't mean that I encourage animal cruelty. Well, not unecessary cruelty. In nature, animals suffer a lot to feed others. Or don't you think that being chopped to bits by a lion or shark hurts?		2011-09-22 23:15:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Never has a petition been so deserving of my signature :'D2011-09-25 20:24:00

Author:
Unknown User

An example of Human hypocricy regarding Animal welfare;
The Pygmy Hog is an endangered species of pig - numbering less than 200 individuals;
Efforts have been made to conserve the species (though not as much effort as other, less endangered, but more popular species - like The Bengal Tiger) ;
On these pygmy hogs live a unique type of louse - the pygmy hog-sucking louse, which is the only louse to be on the "critically endangered" list ;
No efforts are made to save this species - in fact, Pygmy Hogs are deloused when they are caught, because we'd rather save the "cute little piggy", than the "blood sucking parasite" that lives upon it.

The Human Louse is also seeing a drastic reduction in it's population because of inventions like The Vacuum Cleaner and detergents.
Does anybody care that a parasitic insect that causes us a little itch is about to become extinct?
No - nobody cares - they'd rather live in a world without the occasional itch than have to share it with a parasite.

We are all monstrous hypocrites regarding animal welfare.		2011-09-25 21:12:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

An example of Human hypocricy regarding Animal welfare;
The Pygmy Hog is an endangered species of pig - numbering less than 200 individuals;
Efforts have been made to conserve the species (though not as much effort as other, less endangered, but more popular species - like The Bengal Tiger) ;
On these pygmy hogs live a unique type of louse - the pygmy hog-sucking louse, which is the only louse to be on the "critically endangered" list ;
No efforts are made to save this species - in fact, Pygmy Hogs are deloused when they are caught, because we'd rather save the "cute little piggy", than the "blood sucking parasite" that lives upon it.

The Human Louse is also seeing a drastic reduction in it's population because of inventions like The Vacuum Cleaner and detergents.
Does anybody care that a parasitic insect that causes us a little itch is about to become extinct?
No - nobody cares - they'd rather live in a world without the occasional itch than have to share it with a parasite.

We are all monstrous hypocrites regarding animal welfare.

While the pig part may be true, I disagree on how you treated the human louse part. These, and other house infesting and disease-spreading creatures are killed by humans as a form of surival instinct. While some of these are harmless, the instinct doesn't have the time to distinguish between "good" and "evil". If it's invading your home/body, better not risk it.

Yes, we may be causing the extinction of these specimens, but we are doing what any other animal would do to anyone that posed a threat (real or not) against him and his family. The difference is that we have more efficient ways to do that.

Animal cruelty is a feature of nature, to an extent. We don't see animals in the wild killing others for fun, or with unecessary cruelty.		2011-09-25 21:43:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Is regular animal cruelty still ok or do I have to stop teasing ducks?2011-09-25 21:57:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

Actually - there are examples of extreme cruelty and killing for fun in nature. Dolphins for example, kill and torture other animals and dolphins - and it's not for food, defense or survival. It seems that increased intelligence also gives the capacity for increased cruelty.

Anyone familiar with Prof. James Lovelock's "Gaia Hypothesis"?

It's the theory that the earth is a self-regulating system.
It is quite probable that nature produces these harmful disease-spreading organism as a way for it to regulate, control or eliminate a species. Surely there is no species more harmful (both to other species and to the ecosystem as a whole) than Mankind?
But we would go to war with nature itself - killing off any species we deem "harmful", or just "inconvenient" - completely ignoring the "harm" that we do to nature in the process 		2011-09-25 22:18:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Maybe we should stop killing each other first before we stop killing everything else for food.2011-09-25 23:42:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

Nope, wrong way around... we need to START killing each other for food...

Red Dwarf Excerpt;
Cat: Mmmm, This Chicken is GOOD!
Lister: Yeah, really good
Kryten: That's not chicken, sir
Cat: Oh, what is it?
Kryten: It's that man we found - <LISTER and CAT suddenly stop chewing, their mouthfuls of meat turning to
poison...> - Well, it seemed such a waste to leave him lying there when he'd barbecue
so beautifully..Did I do wrong? I didn't get any error commands...<LISTER and CAT let their half-chewed mouthfuls dribble out in disgust>
Obviously I thought about it, because without my guilt chip or moral
imperatives, I have nothing to guide me. But it seemed to me that if
humanoids eat chicken then obviously they'd eat their own species; otherwise
they'd just be picking on the chicken.

2011-09-26 01:20:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Nope, you think I'm "anti-american" - but actually I'm "Anti-hypocricy";
It just so happens America is one of the biggest hypocrites.

Petitioning the UN to have ALL member states comply with an agreed standard of human rights and animal welfare - (rather than saying one country can and another country can't) - would definately get my signature

This doesnt go well. "Nope, you think I'm "anti-american" - but actually I'm "Anti-hypocricy" "and It just so happens America is one of the biggest hypocrites" Not anti american i see. /s		2011-09-26 01:54:00

Author:
StaticLinuxpro
Posts: 482

I take it "Not anti american i see" is intended as sarcasm? (when will they invent an internet sarcasm button?)
Will it help my case if I say that Britain is also up there with "The Biggest Hypocrites in the World"? ;
No? Well, then you've obviously already made up your mind about me.

See, not anti-american - anti-hypocricy - a subtle yet distinct difference.

"I'm not racist - I hate all races equally"
Oscar Wilde 		2011-09-26 02:37:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

I'm used to /s at the end of sarcasm posts. And I don't think you are bad. I just thought some people might take offense to your post.2011-09-26 04:30:00

Author:
StaticLinuxpro
Posts: 482

Good, I'm glad to hear that.

I'm really not *that* bad........

...... I'm much, much worse


I'm such a devils advocate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate), that I can argue on the side of animal cruelty and a mass human cull 		2011-09-26 06:17:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Good, I'm glad to hear that.

I'm really not *that* bad........

...... I'm much, much worse


I'm such a devils advocate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate), that I can argue on the side of animal cruelty and a mass human cull

And I'm able to argue FOR human genocide with an argument that scares me in its practicality.

What? I just had to mention that. Don't look at me like that >_>		2011-09-26 15:55:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Yeah, this whole "animals don't want love thing" offends most of us that love animals, you may not thinks so, but most of us do. But hey, we all have our own agreements, right?
To me, my pets are family, it may seem stupid to you or anyone else that reads this.

Exactly. Your Pets.

Domesticated animals have become accustomed to humans providing for them, however, wild animals don't want to be "loved" by us.		2011-09-26 21:52:00

Author:
Rhys125
Posts: 841

Exactly. Your Pets.

Domesticated animals have become accustomed to humans providing for them, however, wild animals don't want to be "loved" by us.

Yes, pets only want to be "loved" because we have breed dependence of humans into them. We provide the nurture they need to survive, and the companionship nature has bred into them as needed for their survival.

Animals are not human. You say YOU love your PETS. Of course you do. But don't assign human qualities to animals. They do not just want to be "loved". they want to survive. Survival is the dominate goal of ALL living things. And yes, survival is based around food and sex. As well as protection, so I guess safety can join food and sex as their three most dominate urges.		2011-09-26 22:15:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Sigh...when will people learn that online signatures are pointless and useless?
If they can't do anything to change stuff for video games or other pointless stuff, do they really expect them to change an entire business, a country, and so on?
I mean, even real signed petitions rarely accomplished anything.

I'm not signing it for 2 reasons.
First, for what I mentioned above, secondly, because PETA has become a lazy shadow of its former selves that only use the name to make rules when convenient and they don't look as the usless organization they really are, and gain money while doing nothing.

PETA used to DO stuff, rather than simply ask for an online signature, hoping things would solve themselves...
So until they actually DO something about it, they go themselves and complain and protest, they go around asking for real people in real petitions, doing SOMETHING for their "cause," PETA will no longer have my support, respect or anything from me.

Its turned into such disappointing group, its just sad...

Not to mention as many have said, until they start protesting about the food they eat or the country they live in, will they really have a right to complain about the other countries.

Looking away to what others are doing while bad stuff is happening under their noses as well is not really a motivating way to follow them or support their actions.		2011-09-28 22:34:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707


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