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Move-A Divided Community

Archive: 63 posts

Well, I made it through the Move pack story mode last night.

The thing surprised me the most? I actually enjoyed the gameplay. Using the Move was simple, intuitive and fun.

Of course, as someone who spends most of their time in create, I started imagining incorporating some fun gameplay into my levels, and came to a realization - if I did, half the community would never get to fully play my level.

MM have always been wise to never divide the community when it comes to gameplay. Paying for the DLC always meant that some had special access to levels, costumes, content and in some cases, power ups. Yet, we now have our first power up that requires a peripheral to use. A fairly expensive peripheral at that.

So, here we sit, a creator who with a fun new tool, but using automatically means locking out the majority of players, and the player, who is equally frustrated seeing a level they might want to play being metaphorically locked with a motion control icon.

So, how do you, as a creator, plan to tackle this new problem?

Personally, I will try to incorporate hybrids where possible, allowing both players to utilize the level, however, the majority of the time, I will be forced to avoid fully integrating the Move so that anyone can access my levels.

I never expected the Move to be so cool to play with, which makes it that much more sad and frustrating that I can not fully embrace it in all of my level building.

*sigh*		2011-09-14 14:37:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

I agree with you about the divided community (not sure on your numbers, as I think maybe more than half will end up with Move controllers - but I honestly don't know either way).

As for the move itself, I do not like it. I don't like the action (feels like a stupid, stinking wii to me), I don't like the multi-controller, two fisted requirement, and I don't like most of the game-play (thus far... I had to finally go to bed last night and did not finish the new levels). But depending on what happens over the coming weeks and how the community reacts to it, this may well be the thing that finally ends my 2.5 year addiction to this game. I love the new tools (although being required to "paint" with the move is a disappointment), materials, and objects, but I really, REALLY don't like the Move.		2011-09-14 14:48:00

Author:
v0rtex
Posts: 1878

Sony must realize this going forward, and I anticipate that the Move Starter Pack (currently $90-100 U.S. at most retailers, includes the PS Move, PS Eye ) will experience a significant price drop this holiday season, probably down to $75 retail. (What is unfortunate is that this Starter Pack doesn't include the Nav Controller or the custom charger, although you can get similar functionality using the DualShock held clumsily in one hand and the charging cables provided with your original controller.)

Cheapest I've been able to find the Starter Pack is $80 (http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/PS3-Move-Starter-Bundle-By-Sony-Computer-Entertainment/5130381/product.html?cid=123620).

The new Move tags should help identify those levels that are Move-exclusive, but yes I agree the community will be divided on those levels that don't allow for dual inputs.

You should still be able to wire in analog stick controls to mimic the Move in a limited capacity, but the Move can do so much more than a typical Dualshock. If you want to utilize all three axes of the Move in your level, you'll be stuck limiting your creations to Move-only players.

The smart creator will make every effort to utilize Move in a way that doesn't provide any advantage to the player for using it, and instead provides an alternative input tool to play the level. Puzzles may require two different solutions, or perhaps instead of having a x2/x3/x4 section in your level, you'll incorporate a bonus "Move" section off to the side. Multiplayer games may be even harder to create using both input devices, as the issues of balance will quickly come into play.

I fear that the community will suffer from the "have and have nots" syndrome, but the optimist in me has faith that creators out there will realize the pitfalls of choosing one or the other and instead opt for balance in their levels.		2011-09-14 14:56:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

As my current project is a single player point-and-click adventure, an admittedly niche genre, I've really already chased off about two thirds of the community before I've even started!

So in my case, adding move controls to the level really isn't going to affect its popularity all that much. If I have the thermo and patience at the end of my create time, I will do whatever I can to make the level a hybrid control system. But, ultimately, this series is one I am making purely for the joy of telling a story, and if people don't want to / aren't able to play due to not having the right equipment or not liking the level, well, that sucks, but it's far from the end of the world.

I don't agree fully with people who say that we should only create for ourselves, as part of the slogan of LBP is, after all, Share. But I do think that our own personal goal should always be our highest priority. In my case, my highest priority is my story, and my (possibly feable) attempt at writing something humourous. The controller used and the plays which come as a result are a bonus, but not as important to me.

I do however get depressed when a level which should, in all theory, get plenty of plays does not. The levels I am most proud of tend to be those which the majority don't enjoy so much, but c'est la vie. I get a hundred times the exposure now than I ever had back in LBP1, and that is a great boost to me. I just need to remind myself that I don't need more than that.

I am aware that this may have turned into somewhat of a random rant... oh my... I hope there was something that resembled an on-topic answer in there somewhere!		2011-09-14 15:01:00

Author:
rialrees
Posts: 1015

Guys nobody stops you to make hybrid level, also move community is lbp2 community and they won't start to make move levels forever as always drama for nothing ;p2011-09-14 15:33:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

As much as I enjoyed and am enjoying the MOVE pack and even it's gameplay.
real life Movement based gameplay games are still not my type of thing,
they never were, so it's not like MOVE was gonna change that.
So I'm not gonna make any levels that you need a MOVE to play with, ever.
I enjoy normal non Movement based gameplay best still,
I always have and most likely always will. *mew		2011-09-14 15:50:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

I agree, rialrees, always create for yourself first. Thing is, I can make controls that a similar to Move, but it would be much simpler to just use the movinator to create it.2011-09-14 15:57:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

Sony must realize this going forward, and I anticipate that the Move Starter Pack (currently $90-100 U.S. at most retailers, includes the PS Move, PS Eye ) will experience a significant price drop this holiday season, probably down to $75 retail. (What is unfortunate is that this Starter Pack doesn't include the Nav Controller or the custom charger, although you can get similar functionality using the DualShock held clumsily in one hand and the charging cables provided with your original controller.)

Cheapest I've been able to find the Starter Pack is $80 (http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/PS3-Move-Starter-Bundle-By-Sony-Computer-Entertainment/5130381/product.html?cid=123620).

Gamestop has all the parts individually for a a total of $75 (24.99 controller, $39.99 camera, $9.99 Sports Champions), and the nav controller and charger for $15 each. Strangely, the bundle is still full price. You could get the entire bundle with a nav controller and shipping for the same price as the bundle.

I've been thinking about this too. Most of what I like to create is the minigame style level where a motion control would be ideal. While this is great for me personally, it's not great for people i may want to play the level. I wonder how different the sentiments would be if we had motion controls from the start and not spent 8 months settling into an expected routine.

What i don't understand is why there isn't a sensor to detect the Move controller so that we can design accordingly. The functionality is already there since we can set the type of level to detect the wand and then alert players that don't have it. It would be much easier to enable/disable it according to the player.		2011-09-14 16:03:00

Author:
tdarb
Posts: 689

flamin' eck, can't people just enjoy the flipping thing? it may well split the community to a degree but i'll take the 5 million half thankfully, and as Shadow says, there's noone stopping people from making hybrid games. on a business note, what do people think Sony should do? not innovate because not everyone has the MOVE or use MOVE to broaden LBP2s appeal and sell MOVE? come on now, think less selfishly, these are incredible times for an incredible game2011-09-14 16:16:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

Guys nobody stops you to make hybrid level, also move community is lbp2 community and they won't start to make move levels forever as always drama for nothing ;p

Drama? I never said the sky was falling, only that I was a bit bummed out that the power up wasn't accessible by all.

See, no drama here, just a friendly discussion. Move along...(See what I did there?) 		2011-09-14 16:26:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

I agree with v0rtex, this could be what kills LBP for me. I don't like being forced to pick up a new peripheral, it's really got nothing to do with the cost...and yes, I do feel forced, I want the new decorations and sticker panel material in the Move pack even if I don't care about Move functionality (and no, I'm not going to play online with someone who has one, I've managed to get every 2x-4x prize since LBP1 by myself).

As for using the Move to paint...I haven't tried it...but it sounds horrible having to hold your arms up for extended periods, I'd much rather LBP supported a mouse in addition to the dual-shock for this, hey MM stickers are 2d, you don't need Move for this!

That said, if you're going to make a hybrid level that can be played with or without Move...why bother. Nerfing puzzles, etc. to the lowest common denominator defeats the whole point of the Move controller...if you want to make a Move level I say just do it...don't worry about folks that don't have one. Avoid gratuitous and un-necessary Move requirements of course...have a reason to require it.

If the 1.07 update fixes the 1.06 reboot bug, I'll pick up a Move controller and get the new DLC...otherwise it's bye bye LBP2.		2011-09-14 16:37:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

I agree with v0rtex, this could be what kills LBP for me. I don't like being forced to pick up a new peripheral

noone is forcing you. pretend MOVE doesn't exist and neither does this pack. imagine that and you'll be just as happy with LBP as you ever was... i suppose Sony are also 'forcing' you to buy the VITA too

just be level headed and enjoy what you've been enjoying for quite some time		2011-09-14 16:50:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

noone is forcing you. pretend MOVE doesn't exist and neither does this pack. imagine that and you'll be just as happy with LBP as you ever was... i suppose Sony are also 'forcing' you to buy the VITA too

just be level headed and enjoy what you've been enjoying for quite some time

The problem is, for people like me, the non-Move related items (instruments, materials, objects, stickers) are must-haves. Problem is, they're "can't-gets" unless you have someone patient enough to sit with you through the entire story mode to get 100% completion and ace every level, and that person happens to have a Move.

There's a difference purchasing normal DLC, and purchasing DLC plus a completely seperate input device. What would you do if MM sold you a huge content pack but told you that you could only collect 25% of the items contained within it unless you purchased a pair of $100 GAP Jeans?

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining here, just trying to make a point... I'll be purchasing Move (and not just because of LBP2) later this year and plan on purchasing this DLC anyways, in hopes that I'll be able to hook up with someone with Move. Problem is, the lack of a Move controller will prevent some people from collecting all the content in this pack. And that's a legitimate issue.		2011-09-14 17:31:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

That said, if you're going to make a hybrid level that can be played with or without Move...why bother. Nerfing puzzles, etc. to the lowest common denominator defeats the whole point of the Move controller...

Not every hybrid level will be the lowest common denominator. For instance, a point-and-click game where the cursor is either Move-controlled or stick-controlled means everyone can play, and Move owners have the benefit of easier control. It would be wise for people designing this type of level to go hybrid. It shouldn't even be that hard to do, I'm sure someone like Shadowriver will publish a ready-to-use kit that you can just drop into your level to get started.

As for dividing the community: yes, there will most likely be some division, but IMHO probably less than the division between LBP1 and LBP2. Apart from the hybrid scenario I mentioned above I see two types of levels: levels that splash in a little Move because it's the latest fad, and levels that build heavily on the Move stuff and are as such unable to support non-Move players. The first type will subside after a little while, and if they're smart they'll make the Move stuff optional so they don't lock out a large part of the player population. The second type will probably not be that common, since it's pretty difficult to come up with Move gameplay that uses more than just point-and-click.

@schm0: I agree that for creators the Move pack can be a must, but I don't see it creating a divide. At least not in the sense of the OP.		2011-09-14 17:35:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

If the majority of the good levels start being Move-controlled only, I'll just ditch LBP. I plan to buy the Move in time. But it's only to have the full experience of this game, not for being "forced" to keep up with new control methods. In an overall sense, the classic controls are still the best and those are the ones I plan to stick with. I plan to have the Move so I can play those novelty levels whose charm is exactly the movement controls, not the generic levels that could just use classic controls and require the Move "just because".

The dilemma I wondered about a few times before and Cymbol tackled in this topic is the reason I'm just waiting to see what happens after this pack before deciding to buy it or not. I barely could decide on buying the Move for just this pack, but there's still the question if this will divide the community or not. DLC usually does in other online games: a dozen new maps come in a pack you have to buy to play. So you want to play with your friends but oh noes! They're playing in the new maps you don't own. Bugger off, you lesser gamer. Go back to your overplayed basic maps or buy our stuff.
LBP never suffered this problem. You want to use the new stuff in your own creations? Buy it. You want only to play them? Just find a level that contains that DLC you want to try out. The community never felt divided into categories of "people who own this pack" and "people who own that pack" because ultimately it didn't matter. You could just play everything with everyone. And now the Move, that puny little attempt of Sony to steal the Wii's audience, will change the equilibrium MM managed to mantain for 3 years. Something big will happen to the community, alright. If it's for the worst or for the best I have no idea. It all depends on if this pack will take more Move controllers out of the shelves and if the move levels will surpass the classic ones in quantity from now on.

Edit: And before someone says "Quitting LBP because of a pack? Aren't you making too much of a big deal out of this? You can just pretend the Move and its levels don't exist", just think about what could happen. Imagine all the good levels from now on use the move. Imagine this debate from the viewpoint of those who just can't afford the luxury of buying a 70€ controller set just to play one game. That all the content of this game you love started using that controller. If all the fresh and original levels that could use classical control methods use the Move just because they can, not because it's needed. Imagine the community just moved on an universal trend you can't follow. Someone who has diligently supported the franchise for so long can't just turn their back on these levels coming up from everywhere, present in the Cool pages and MM Picks alike. Wouldn't that make you quit?		2011-09-14 17:45:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

flamin' eck, can't people just enjoy the flipping thing? it may well split the community to a degree but i'll take the 5 million half thankfully, and as Shadow says, there's noone stopping people from making hybrid games. on a business note, what do people think Sony should do? not innovate because not everyone has the MOVE or use MOVE to broaden LBP2s appeal and sell MOVE? come on now, think less selfishly, these are incredible times for an incredible game

I think that was kind of the point, not everyone can enjoy it. I already had a Move, so it wasn't an issue for me, but these are tough economic times, and I don't assume everyone is able to justify the Move purchase at this time. So, although this thread is not meant to be a complaint thread, I do sympathize with those who are able to get the Move.

Also, what is the number, 5 million referring to?

However, I do want to reiterate my intention for the thread - how do creators plan on tackling this issue?		2011-09-14 17:52:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

Not every hybrid level will be the lowest common denominator. For instance, a point-and-click game where the cursor is either Move-controlled or stick-controlled means everyone can play, and Move owners have the benefit of easier control. It would be wise for people designing this type of level to go hybrid.

Sure, by all means if you want to support it as a simple pointer or something...go for it, you can't seriously think I was suggesting otherwise?!? Not every level needs to be a hybrid...if you want to do something that can only be accomplished with the Move controller, you shouldn't worry about those that don't have one, that's all.


noone is forcing you. pretend MOVE doesn't exist and neither does this pack. imagine that and you'll be just as happy with LBP as you ever was... i suppose Sony are also 'forcing' you to buy the VITA too just be level headed and enjoy what you've been enjoying for quite some time

Sorry I'm not good at practicing self-delusion...I've already seen the sticker panel and new decos. I want them, just like I want a Vita because I love my PSP and play it all the time. MM could make me and a lot of people happy by selling all the create DLC separate from the DLC levels.		2011-09-14 18:15:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

Sorry if this has been answered but can a non-move owning co-player pick up the main new create tools by playing through with a Move player?

EDIT - ignore, re-read the FAQs.		2011-09-14 18:39:00

Author:
julesyjules
Posts: 1156

Sorry if this has been answered but can a non-move owning co-player pick up the main new create tools by playing through with a Move player?

I haven't tried it with this pack, but I assume its like any other DLC pack - You can go into a friends pod, and play levels you haven't purchased the DLC for, but you won't keep any prizes collected.		2011-09-14 19:04:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

The problem is, for people like me, the non-Move related items (instruments, materials, objects, stickers) are must-haves. Problem is, they're "can't-gets" unless you have someone patient enough to sit with you through the entire story mode to get 100% completion and ace every level, and that person happens to have a Move.

There's a difference purchasing normal DLC, and purchasing DLC plus a completely seperate input device. What would you do if MM sold you a huge content pack but told you that you could only collect 25% of the items contained within it unless you purchased a pair of $100 GAP Jeans?

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining here, just trying to make a point... I'll be purchasing Move (and not just because of LBP2) later this year and plan on purchasing this DLC anyways, in hopes that I'll be able to hook up with someone with Move. Problem is, the lack of a Move controller will prevent some people from collecting all the content in this pack. And that's a legitimate issue.

ok, you have a point there. i didn't consider that... flip i'm on the fence with this one now lol. i have a MOVE so it's no problem for me but i do now see the point		2011-09-14 19:27:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

It seems all off you freaking hate the move
I freaking it.
And I think this is so much better than wii because have wii a game like LBP?
But I understand if you think you are silly waving your arms around in circle such like things.
But I think the new move pack is the most awesome thing MM have ever made
<3

But who care's about my opinion?		2011-09-14 21:10:00

Author:
Seveni_7
Posts: 109

I don't think this will divide the community. The people without the move will likely outnumber those with it for the foreseeable future. There will be no shortage of standard control levels.

I really like the possibilities that the move opens up.

I see some people saying they are going to get the Move, but not yet. If you know you are going to get it, and have the money, now is the time. Gamestop has the nav control for $15, and the Move for $25 through the first of next month in the US (camera is listed at $40 online). The website says stores are regular price for pickup, but I just came back from Gamestop and bought a nav controller and two controller charging base at the discounted price ($29.98 total). That's likely the best deal you are going to find for a while.

If you don't have a gamestop nearby, wal mart will price match them. Just call gamestop first to make sure they know. The guys at the one in my town didn't even know the prices had changed until they scanned the controller. 		2011-09-14 21:30:00

Author:
tdarb
Posts: 689

I might have been more tempted to buy Move/pack if it wasnt for the fact that the PS3 is in its winter years (and for the love of <insert your god or whatever here> dont misunderstand this statement as "PS3 has 5 more minutes to live"... *Im not saying that* ....)

But yea, given it would only be purchased for the sake of this games DLC, Im not personally sold on it - fun as it may be.

As for dividing the community, you're right, it will to some degree anyway. But make whatever you wanna make, nothings changed in that principle.		2011-09-14 21:41:00

Author:
Masseyf
Posts: 226

Drama? I never said the sky was falling, only that I was a bit bummed out that the power up wasn't accessible by all.

See, no drama here, just a friendly discussion. Move along...(See what I did there?)

Just wait for my level i will publish today 		2011-09-14 21:53:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

What would you do if MM sold you a huge content pack but told you that you could only collect 25% of the items contained within it unless you purchased a pair of $100 GAP Jeans?


:kz: Jump off a bridge.

...

What?		2011-09-14 22:06:00

Author:
IronSkullKid99
Posts: 515

I don't think that you should deliberately ignore using the Move and the game play experiences it offers, simply because you might cut out some people.

It's a great device, and seeing as you have to pay for it, why not get some awesome levels by talented creators?

Now go! Create the next epic Move level!

(As you can probably tell; I love the Move controller in LBP2. For me, it's the best addition the game's ever had.)		2011-09-14 22:43:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287

I bought the move starter pack, and played prehistoric moves, I didn't like the gameplay all that much, so I took it back the next day but I don't wanna go out and buy it again for the same $100 disappointment, but its on the horizon of everyone somehow getting move,and the move pack, which will probably be the downfall of my game time.2011-09-15 01:24:00

Author:
Unknown User

It seems all off you freaking hate the move
I freaking it.

I don't hate the Move, I hate not having one. 		2011-09-15 01:35:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

I don't hate the Move, I hate not having one.
I hate its price. I hate my country's abusive taxes on video games.		2011-09-15 01:44:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

I hate its price. I hate my country's abusive taxes on video games.

Believe me, over at Eurogamer.pt we hear that a lot about videogame prices in Brazil. And to think I compain with games being 70? over here, you guys have it a lot worse 		2011-09-15 02:39:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

The problem is, for people like me, the non-Move related items (instruments, materials, objects, stickers) are must-haves. Problem is, they're "can't-gets" unless you have someone patient enough to sit with you through the entire story mode to get 100% completion and ace every level, and that person happens to have a Move.


If you bought the pack and someone put the stuff from the story levels inside of prize bubbles then gave them to you and you picked up the items, would they go into your popit like normal story bubbles would since you have the pack?
Like how if you are the original creator of a sticker, you put it in a bubble, delete the sticker, then pick up the bubble you get the sticker in the same place your normal stickers go.
If it works it would solve the problem.
If it doesnt you get them as community prizes and can use them anyway. (If you have the pack)

Would be something interesting to test out.		2011-09-15 02:52:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

So i made level showing some tech good to make hybrid controls, most of the stuff been discovered in move beta by some people

http://lbp.me/v/6-xr3d

How to detect Move and how to make brean crain work without move 		2011-09-15 03:52:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

If you bought the pack and someone put the stuff from the story levels inside of prize bubbles then gave them to you and you picked up the items, would they go into your popit like normal story bubbles would since you have the pack?
Like how if you are the original creator of a sticker, you put it in a bubble, delete the sticker, then pick up the bubble you get the sticker in the same place your normal stickers go.
If it works it would solve the problem.
If it doesnt you get them as community prizes and can use them anyway. (If you have the pack)

Would be something interesting to test out.

It might work, but I'd be left going to My Objects for those materials, stickers, etc. Regardless, I'm not getting the Move pack for at least another week or so.		2011-09-15 04:18:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

However, I do want to reiterate my intention for the thread - how do creators plan on tackling this issue?

Luckily, I'm able to purchase move for no other reason than for LBP, I also have all the DLC. But I personally think that in terms or creating, choosing to spend huge amounts of time on something for a smaller community is something only a few people will do.

It's hard enough fighting the noise to get a fully accessible level played. If you make it move only if some one does find it, they may not be able to play it.

On the flip side, the people who like playing with Move may be starved for games to support it... Meaning that they may go to more effort to filter searches to games that are built for move. The potential here is that even though a smaller number can play the level you could infact grab a higher percentage of players than a non move game, potentially resulting in MORE plays and better exposure to your other efforts as a creator.

I don't think I'll be playing many move stages myself yet. The Wii has never been my thing (the pack only just came out in Australia) and I'm on my way home to buy it now, so I may love the stages like Cymbol did and want more though.

Let's not forget another point about marketing... I foresee a slew of Mm picks that contain move over the next month. Adding to the idea of being 'forced' you can argue that to get the most out of my games I 'need' a big screen HD TV, to get the most out of my movies I 'need' surround sound, to get the most out of CoD I 'need' high speed Internet. You don't 'need' it, if you like those things than those extras may increase your enjoyment.		2011-09-15 07:47:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

However, I do want to reiterate my intention for the thread - how do creators plan on tackling this issue?

I think that the hybrid level is really the best way to go. Make the Move functionality a nice bonus if someone has it...unless you have the kind of level that is totally built around motion control. It's a bit more work setting up the logic to support two different play types, but I think ultimately it'll pay off for the players and creators alike.

Why? Because as someone said above Sony hasn't done a great job supporting the Move and I know that a lot of LBP fans are on the fence about buying one because it'll likely only get used with LBP2. IMO, the Move pack is the first good reason to even buy the bloody thing (I'm including Killzone/Resistance 3 in that statement because you need to tack on a $40 "gun" attachment to even make the motion controls playable with those games).		2011-09-15 08:26:00

Author:
Chazprime
Posts: 587

Why? Because as someone said above Sony hasn't done a great job supporting the Move and I know that a lot of LBP fans are on the fence about buying one because it'll likely only get used with LBP2. IMO, the Move pack is the first good reason to even buy the bloody thing (I'm including Killzone/Resistance 3 in that statement because you need to tack on a $40 "gun" attachment to even make the motion controls playable with those games).

$20 actually; at least until oct 2 in the US.

I think i will probably build a few Move levels. There are some really great things this can do that just can't be achieved as easily with the dualshock 3.

Traditional platforming games will continue to be ruled by traditional controls. They are traditional for a reason. You don't fix what's not broken.

On the other hand, the move controller opens up gameplay options to people like me. I like to make games that have been hard to make in LBP since the start (I made a "lights out" game in LBP1). My first "Move" is to adapt my last published level to add support for the new controls. It will be a hybrid level, but mostly because it was already published with traditional controls.

I see no problem with publishing Move levels. It will never replace what we have come to expect in levels, but it will allow some innovative openings in gameplay that will be fun to see.		2011-09-15 09:28:00

Author:
tdarb
Posts: 689

So I just played the levels and they were pretty awesome... not worth the price tags of a 'full' game if you take into account the cost of the items but I really enjoyed the gameplay and have to agree with Cymbol, I didn't plan on using MOVE in anything I make, but I think I'll defiantly be messing with it.2011-09-15 10:28:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

Yeah i enjoyed the move levels and what you can do with the move controls is amazing.

I myself have a move but don't really enjoy using it that much to be honest. If i was to make a move level i think like others have said a hybrid level would be the way to go. Though i might actually make a level that gives you the option to play a move character or a none move character. That way the game would be useable as either and maybe get more plays.		2011-09-15 11:17:00

Author:
Lordwarblade
Posts: 761

^^ quite a good idea, adds re-play also. It could actually be an interesting co-op experiment as well, but I doubt co-op would get many plays.

The brain crane itself almost breaks the gameplay rules, it's like an überpower up. I was just carrying a second player around all the levels and using them to collect the bubbles while I just made sure I jumped on the platforms. With two brain cranes the levels are very, very easy. You can actually bypass a large majority of the obstacles.

The only thing worse for game breaking is the unteathered jetpack. At least you can limit what you can grab, but it'll be hard to design for in a challenging way.		2011-09-15 13:10:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

Yeah, I'll probably add in hybrid controls for an upcoming level, if I feel doing so won't delay me too much. However, if it can only have one, than it will be made functional for all. It's a two part level and I think people might get annoyed if they couldn't play part of the second half.

So, if I have time, it will get Move support. Although, it would actually be so much easier for me to use the Move only since the motion logic is pretty much built in. Oh well.		2011-09-15 14:45:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

Think about it this way: if 1% of the community would get to play your level, would it matter to you that it'd be from the segment of players who have the Move?

Now, if however one want to reach the broadest audience possible, then one has to work on that by taking a layered, hybrid approach. Example: if you have already completed LBP2 Story Mode then you are walking around with stickers that will enable you to replay the levels but turn on a different mode for a whole new experience. I don't see why Move cannot be like that as well.

Keep the discussion going, though. This needs to be talked about from all angles.		2011-09-15 16:47:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

Think about it this way: if 1% of the community would get to play your level, would it matter to you that it'd be from the segment of players who have the Move?

The failure in that logic assumes that everyone with Move will be playing the level. So if 1% of all players that would play your level, only a small percentage of those would actually have Move.


Now, if however one want to reach the broadest audience possible, then one has to work on that by taking a layered, hybrid approach. Example: if you have already completed LBP2 Story Mode then you are walking around with stickers that will enable you to replay the levels but turn on a different mode for a whole new experience. I don't see why Move cannot be like that as well.

Keep the discussion going, though. This needs to be talked about from all angles.

Yeah, there's going to be hybrid levels, and there already are. ShadowriverUB already has a short tutorial level on how to get some of the Move tools working with analog stick inputs, and some helpful members of the community have already devised clever ways for Move detection and associated logic.

My biggest problem is that the content contained within the Move pack itself is unattainable unless you have Move or a dedicated friend to help you ace the entire Story mode (which, now that I think of it, is twice as hard as Acing it solo!)

However, instead of complaining, the best thing that I can do is be patient. Good things come to those that wait, as they say.

I don't see the community fracturing, but I do think there will be some levels out there where Move capability simply can't be replicated in a balanced way. The nature of both input devices are just fundamentally different.		2011-09-15 17:54:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

Honestly, I feel bad with those that aren't buying a Move just because of "motion controls."
The Move pack is the most fun I've ever had with any motion controller. It's super fun and intuitive and the story levels are THE BEST they've ever made by far.

Very cool stuff. It's really not worth arguing over.
I think with the LBP community, the Move is in great hands. Motion controls have pleny of untapped potential and the community can afford to take risks, unlike big game devs.		2011-09-15 19:01:00

Author:
Sack-Jake
Posts: 1153

My suggestion is:
Try to make levels that don't lag a lot in multiplayer, so that a player can play with a friend who has got the Move.		2011-09-16 08:01:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Haven't ever used move. Tried a wii before but it did not excite me as much as say, the guitar hero controller (which was actually fun).
Don't have any interest in the move itself, but of course the new LBP content does.
However I'm not going to "invest" in a move just for some LBP DLC. I doubt I will have much other use for it. (like someone said resistance needs the gun, etc..)

Oh, well, ignorance is bliss.
I'll just ignore all the move MM picks.

As for the OP, if I had move I would just publish a separate move version of the level, that way you have less to work around.
Are there any pics online (not on LBP2) of all the move dlc decorations?		2011-09-16 09:33:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

The failure in that logic assumes that everyone with Move will be playing the level. So if 1% of all players that would play your level, only a small percentage of those would actually have Move.

That is how statistics work, but there is good chance that more people with Move will play a Move enabled level, compared to the number of Move players playing the same level without the Move support; Move players are interested in Move levels and will seek them out. Add to this that one advertises the level as a Move level exclusively (the icon and it is in the search options as well, right?), plus the extra exposure Move levels will get the coming time. And don't forget the extra efforts of the creator, advertising it is a Move level.		2011-09-16 12:17:00

Author:
Antikris
Posts: 1340

Do you guys think the Cool Levels will be overrun with Move levels?2011-09-16 14:05:00

Author:
SnipySev
Posts: 2452

That's already started. People are trying to give away the Brain Crane, make "Move Playbox" levels, even more sticker rooms, and make Move zombie shooters.

I am a bit interested in seeing the stickers, but I hope the production of levels arbitrarily made Move-Only will drop quickly.		2011-09-16 17:08:00

Author:
Unknown User

Do you guys think the Cool Levels will be overrun with Move levels?

Does it really matter? The cool pages are already overrun with crappy H4H levels and bomb survivals and lazy made zombie levels. I think it will make a good change to see crappy move levels instead.

Also because move levels have a move icon instead of the tree icon in the top corner it will be easy to skip through them to get to other stuff. Maybe		2011-09-17 11:23:00

Author:
Lordwarblade
Posts: 761

That's already started. People are trying to give away the Brain Crane, make "Move Playbox" levels, even more sticker rooms, and make Move zombie shooters.

I am a bit interested in seeing the stickers, but I hope the production of levels arbitrarily made Move-Only will drop quickly.
I'm surprised that many people even own a Move. XD		2011-09-17 13:30:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

I'm surprised that many people even own a Move. XD

Actually, I think these levels are getting on the cool pages from all the non Move users. They are probably trying to get an idea or preview of what Move games will be like. That's my theory anyway.		2011-09-17 15:34:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

The solution is simple, but time consuming. I've noticed the brain crane is just a fancier way of having remote controllinator's on objects and setting them to 'nearest player' (Like those 'psychic power' chips). If you really wanted to, you could have two versions depending on how dedicated you wanted to be. It's a ghetto solution.

Personally I just want to use the paint tool, sticker panel and motion recorder.		2011-09-25 12:13:00

Author:
Cheezy WEAPON
Posts: 283

The solution is simple, but time consuming. I've noticed the brain crane is just a fancier way of having remote controllinator's on objects and setting them to 'nearest player' (Like those 'psychic power' chips). If you really wanted to, you could have two versions depending on how dedicated you wanted to be. It's a ghetto solution.

Personally I just want to use the paint tool, sticker panel and motion recorder.

You could have two versions, probably have to have the player choose early on and emit the power ups, having both would eat up thermo.

Btw, I wonder if MM frowns on this since it takes away one reason someone may consider getting a Move.		2011-09-25 14:33:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

You can have two separate level slots. Avoids thermo problem but takes up another slot. Maybe make a separate account for move levels, like [username]_move or something.


Btw, I wonder if MM frowns on this since it takes away one reason someone may consider getting a Move.
If we were talking about EA Games, I would think so. That's not MM-ish.		2011-09-25 15:09:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Actually, I think these levels are getting on the cool pages from all the non Move users. They are probably trying to get an idea or preview of what Move games will be like. That's my theory anyway.

so far 3/4 of people i visited since move pack and 1.06 have a move so there something in this, quastions are cauals. If scorebourd would be functional we could jurge move count by seeing number of people finishing some move restricted level		2011-09-25 17:06:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I have yet to buy the Move pack. What happens if you don't have a Move plugged in?

THIS LEVEL USES CONTENT FROM: PlayStation Move Pack. You require a PlayStation? Move and/or the pack to play.

*boots*		2011-09-25 17:35:00

Author:
Cronos Dage
Posts: 396

So, how do you, as a creator, plan to tackle this new problem?

I won't, because I don't see as a problem.
If I want to make a Move-only level I will do just that. If I can somehow make it as fun with a controller I might include it as an option. The good thing about playing LittleBigPlanet for fun is that you do not have to worry about how many people can play your level. No one expects you to deliver. If you would get payed to create something it would look different, but since you don't all you have to consider is whether or not you enjoy creating that particular level or whether you rather want to build something else.
Enjoy the freedom while you have it. 		2011-09-25 17:41:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193

Well, for those who do have a MOVE, think of it as a privelage, you get to play levels that 1/3 of the community doesn't. XD

Heres my solution: Make a MOVE Level (Which I am, I think this DLC Pack is AWESOME!), Then just simply copy it to another level and make the controls Non-Move.

>		2011-09-25 18:46:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

Wait, people without a Move can't play levels with Move stuff?

Because I'm making a level with split pathways, one with Move and one without. If I turn off the little Move icon that appears on the badge, does this still happen? I've wasted a huge amount of time if it does.		2011-09-25 20:58:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

Wait, people without a Move can't play levels with Move stuff?

Because I'm making a level with split pathways, one with Move and one without. If I turn off the little Move icon that appears on the badge, does this still happen? I've wasted a huge amount of time if it does.

It's a suggestion, nothing more. If you don't have Move you can't use Move-related items unless you have detection methods that redirect input from the Sixaxis into what would be normally used for Move.		2011-09-25 21:32:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

Wait, people without a Move can't play levels with Move stuff?

Because I'm making a level with split pathways, one with Move and one without. If I turn off the little Move icon that appears on the badge, does this still happen? I've wasted a huge amount of time if it does.

Also, you can turn on/off whether or not you want your level to recommend the move controller in the tools bag.		2011-09-25 21:48:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

It's a suggestion, nothing more. If you don't have Move you can't use Move-related items unless you have detection methods that redirect input from the Sixaxis into what would be normally used for Move.

Oh, like the 'One player only' message, you can still play with two players. So people without Move can still play the level and go down the non-Move pathway. I thought they were saying if there was Move stuff in the level and you didn't have one, the game automatically booted you out. Thanks for that 		2011-09-26 12:09:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

Oh, like the 'One player only' message, you can still play with two players. So people without Move can still play the level and go down the non-Move pathway. I thought they were saying if there was Move stuff in the level and you didn't have one, the game automatically booted you out. Thanks for that

More like making a versus level or a movie level without those labels applying. It merely changes the little icon around your level, I believe.		2011-09-26 13:48:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239


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