Archive: 15 posts

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As the title asks, does it? I played around with it for like half an hour, but it seems the activate input doesn't do a dang thing. Am I completely dense, or did a big one slip by QA? I really need to be able to switch between using a cursor and not using a cursor, and swapping between Controlinators sounds way over the top for what I want to do (basically allow the player to switch freely between the cursor on/off). Edit: for the record, I tried a transmitting/receiving pair, but the cursor doesn't even work on the receiver. Another bug, I'd imagine.

2011-09-14 08:49:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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If I remember correctly, you cannot directly turn off a Move Cursor chip, but you can create another Move Cursor chip with no visible pointer on the same Movinator, and activate that chip on when you need to have "no cursor". On your real cursor circuit board you place a Tag Key, and set the other Move interactions in the level to require that particular Tag. On the "no cursor"- Move Cursor, you simply leave this tag out EDIT: The Move Cursor functions a bit like a Sackbot Behavior Chip, meaning that a minimum and a maximum of one can/must be active at a time on a single circuit.

2011-09-14 09:17:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605

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I think the activation input only applies to any logic on the cursor. I don't think it enables/disables the cursor itself. You can attach two cursors to a movinator (or more) and toggle between them with a selector. If you set one to 0% brightness and make it do nothing, you should be able to simulate no cursor. You can also put different cameras on the cursors to add to the effect.

2011-09-14 09:25:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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Cursors on Receivers should work... as mr bob says though, I think the cursor is mutually exclusive on the same movinator. Could be that it is mutually exclusive per player too, which could explain your reciever not working, if you had a move cursor on the transmitter and one on the reciever it could be that only one was allowed to be on still... not that I actually know, i've not used the move tools since the jam....

2011-09-14 11:01:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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You people are all lovely! Every one of you. After threatening to destroy Mm's QA team, I got this message from them via Spaff: He can try to destroy us if he wants but as usual he would be killing the wrong people. He should either destroy the coder who’s design decision it was to make it this way (I can’t remember the logic behind it but we did bug it and they did give a very good reason for why this is how it must work) or himself for not figuring out that this functionality can in fact be achieved. The design as it stands (works like a Sackbot brain/behaviours): - A Movinator can have 1 or more cursors but 1 cursor must always be active. How to achieve a cursor being Off: - If a user want to turn off a cursor they must have two cursors on the Movinator. One with functionality and one without. They must then set it up to switch between the cursor with functionality and the one without. If the player wants functionless Cursor to be invisible they must “tweak” the cursors “cursor size” to 0. To quote the coders “It’s a Feature not Bug” I shall not be so quick with my pitchforks next time! (Side note: I had thought of a solution, which may not get tossed out yet, given some unique properties. Have the cursor always at 0% brightness zero size, but always present, and have some sticker panel follow it around. This may be a better solution than what I initially intended for one important reason: I wanted a cursor to be controlled by the left stick unless they toggled on a Move option. By using this follower technique, I can use the same "cursor" for both by enabling the follower only if they are using move, and otherwise control the cursor through a separate set of movers.)

2011-09-14 11:52:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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By using this follower technique, I can use the same "cursor" for both by enabling the follower only if they are using move, and otherwise control the cursor through a separate set of movers. Sounds a bit like this post from three days ago... There is a workaround, though, which is to make a custom cursor using a bit of Sticker Panel material, which you can either control with an analog stick using an Advanced Mover, or use a Follower to make it follow the real Move Cursor, which can be set to invisible. And, as Shadowriver has already said, it's fairly trivial to detect if the player has a Move or not, so hybrid levels are fairly straighforward to implement. ...but is it "great minds think alike", or "stating the bleedin' obvious". It's a bit of a shame that neither the Movinator nor the Controlinator will let you trap both the Move outputs, and the right analog stick outputs, should the player be using a DualShock+Move combo rather than a Nav+Move combo. More so, because it means you can't use just a Movinator for a hybrid control system where you want the right analog stick to control the cursor, thus leaving the left analog stick free for something else in either configuration, which would be ideal for a level where you want the left stick to control your Sackperson as usual, but also have, say, a crosshair you could control either with the Move, or the right stick, depending on which you have. I spent ages playing with this in the beta with Shadowriver, and the best workaround we could come up with was to first suck each player into a Movinator, use that to detect if they have a Move or not (by examining the Move outputs), then suck them either into a nearby Controlinator or Movinator, depending on which they have. It worked fine, but it still felt more than a little hacky. The only additional optimization I can think of would be not bother sucking them into another Movinator if they have the Move, but just use the existing one used for Move detection.

2011-09-14 12:47:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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...but is it "great minds think alike", or "stating the bleedin' obvious". Well, it's a very elegant solution that I wouldn't expect everyone to come across... I spent ages playing with this in the beta with Shadowriver, and the best workaround we could come up with was to first suck each player into a Movinator, use that to detect if they have a Move or not (by examining the Move outputs) Explain. Are you saying that you'd detect if any of the tilt sensors are active? What if they have their Move controller perfectly flat and stationary? Edit: An amendment to the above. To make the cursor invisible, shrink the size, not the brightness. If you drop brightness to 0%, you just get a black cursor.

2011-09-14 13:41:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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*watches topic with great interest* Started sketching logic thoughts for my point and Click last night, so I'm following this thread now too! I considered detecting whether a move controller was active or not, but I'm still toying with the idea of actually just asking the player what they'd prefer to use, so selecting from a menu of two before gameplay starts. Player then gets sucked into movinator/controllinator and gameplay commences with whichever cursor is applicable. I can see how move detection can be mighty useful as an option though, so I'm also wondering about the active outputs - as in tilt outputs as comph says, or the actual active output? *is too lazy to check atm...*

2011-09-14 13:53:00 Author: rialrees Posts: 1015

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Explain. Are you saying that you'd detect if any of the tilt sensors are active? What if they have their Move controller perfectly flat and stationary? Well1, I spent a lot of time analyzing the outputs from the tilt sensors during the beta, although mostly cos I couldn't figure out why there were four different rotation sensors when an object in 3D space only has three axes of rotation2. Anyways, due to the use of Cartesian (rather than angular) outputs, there's no possible orientation of the Move where one of the outputs isn't at digital one4, so if you feed all 8 of the rotation outputs into an OR gate, the output will always be digital 1. If you don't have a Move, then all the outputs are zero. In actuality, you don't need all 8, since there are only 5 discrete values shared between all 8 outputs, and you may not even need all 5. My notes from the beta tell me the following equivalencies... Vertical Rotation Up/Down == Turning Rotation Up/Down Horizontal Rotation Left/Right == Turning Rotation Left/Right Vertical Rotation Front/Back == Horizontal Rotation Front/Back 1. Ooh, my first post with multiple footnotes. 2. The answer, of course, being that the Turning Rotation is actually just rotation around two axes at the same time. 3. There is no footnote #3, so why are you reading this? 4. Something you ought to be able to prove mathematically.

2011-09-14 15:35:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Started sketching logic thoughts for my point and Click last night, so I'm following this thread now too! I considered detecting whether a move controller was active or not, but I'm still toying with the idea of actually just asking the player what they'd prefer to use, so selecting from a menu of two before gameplay starts. Player then gets sucked into movinator/controllinator and gameplay commences with whichever cursor is applicable. I can see how move detection can be mighty useful as an option though, so I'm also wondering about the active outputs - as in tilt outputs as comph says, or the actual active output? I'll respond directly to give you options. If players don't need to be able to use R2 or the right stick, you can use Aya's method directly above to automatically detect the presence of Move without ejecting players and without doing any sort of custom cursor/follower setup. Alternatively, you can make it a menu option as I have done. I start them with the left stick controlling the cursor and x/Move for the action input. I use an advanced mover to control my custom cursor when they are using the left stick. If they choose to enable Move support, as it were, I disable the advanced mover, and instead make the custom cursor follow the Move Cursor (using a tag on the invisible Move Cursor of course). If someone without Move chooses this option, the Movinator will stay put, so the only thing they can do is change the menu option by clicking it again. Works pretty dang well!* *Also has the advantage of allowing you to change the tooltip quite easily when hovered over certain objects.

2011-09-14 17:40:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Comphermc in the HELP section!!!! Noooooo, i must be seeing things...

2011-09-14 19:40:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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Given the topic is hybrid cursor control, I follow this thread with great anticipation. I see the Move controller as an enhancement to many game concepts and I'd hate to see creators take the easy route by making all their creations demanding the player to have a Move set.

2011-09-15 12:13:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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What I'm in the process of is based on Aya's idea of auto-configuring, along with making my own "cursor" with a couple of microchips on it for hybrid control. Normally I'd let the player decide whether or not to use the Move in the menu, but I figure they've already chosen by the time they turn on the system (though I will add a note in the title screen letting them know the level is Move compatible in case they want to try it out later). As for the microchips, they're nothing fancy. One has a follower one it, set to follow a tag on the Move cursor. The other has an advanced mover on it, set to take inputs from the right analog stick (not used for anything else in my level) of a normal controller. Which microchip is active is based on which "controller" the player is in, based on Aya's sensing method, using the Active outputs from the Controlinator and Movinator. So far I haven't run into any issues, though I haven't had the time to extensively test it.

2011-09-15 17:43:00 Author: Unknown User

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Comphermc in the HELP section!!!! Noooooo, i must be seeing things... Lol... xD That's why I came here... I can't believe that Comph needs help with ANYTHING! But oh well... You learn something everyday!

2011-09-15 23:52:00 Author: Speedynutty68 Posts: 1614

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its not exactly cursor related, but it is on the topic of controllinator/movinator compatibility. im building a lvl that proceeds the right stick for certain applications. After i finished move story, i went bck to fine tune and tweak/test. but my right stick was dead. i proceeded to pick up the move controller and it was controlling it. i was a bit confused i know that move had sense update been made to be able to play all lvl with, but im sitting in a controllinator...

2011-09-16 18:01:00 Author: Unknown User

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