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#1

The Overlord Glitch

Archive: 22 posts

Before anyone goes all "that's cheating!" on me, let me explain.

I'm going to try to make a speed run of LittleBigPlanet 2's story mode, and I thought, "Well, the fastest route seems to be:
-Speed through di vinci levels to unlock create mode
-Play through a few tutorials to unlock the unlock all tutorial objects button
-Go to create mode and using the overlord glitch, put emitter on sack person that creates a scoreboard
-Go back and complete all the other story levels in a second
Or if that doesn't work I could create a holographic super fast vehicle, emit it, and just fly to the end of each level really fast.

As most of you know, the overlord glitch was patched in version 1.05. I deleted my game data so I could play version 1.00, which won't let me go online since it's not the latest version. Since I can't go online, I can't get the bolted entrance glitch object (also, I can't cheat the scores since I can't go online, which should stop you from worrying about me cheating those. I wouldn't do that anyway). I also don't have any keys to do the key-elastic method because I can't publish any levels. So, my question is, is there any way to do the overlord glitch offline?

If you still think it's morally wrong, I'm sorry. Exploiting glitches is actually recommended in speed runs, if it gets you a faster time. Any help would be greatly appreciated 		2011-09-03 18:18:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

No there's not. Any new version of the game would be updated with that, the only way to do it would be to completely wipe your system, which I doubt you want to do.2011-09-04 18:49:00

Author:
Undarivik
Posts: 442

No there's not. Any new version of the game would be updated with that, the only way to do it would be to completely wipe your system, which I doubt you want to do.

No, if you delete the game data and reinstall you can skip the update to 1.05 and play 1.00. It forces you to play offline but all the old glitches are still there.

Besides I figured it out anyway. Someone on youtube answered me. The glitch object is just an LBP 1 entrance with a motor bolt on it, just gotta import it and it's all good.		2011-09-05 03:02:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

What's the point of a speed run if you're going to cheat? Speed runs are supposed to show off how skilled you are at the game.

It's like entering a foot race and as soon as the race starts, you hop in your car and drive to the finish line.		2011-09-05 03:36:00

Author:
littlebigmeteor
Posts: 396

I'm no speedrun purist, but it sounds like the accomplishment is in that first procedure, self-contained within LBP2. It shows how fast the game can be beat in a vacuum - no Internet, no previous game saves, no external help. That's going to count for a lot more than a much-reduced super speed run that's more about creating an object prior to the start of the speedrun -- which ought to be shown in video, to be interesting. If that happens in LBP1, you should make it a combo speed run (i.e., a speedrun for LBP2 that, while exploiting a glitch, does so by earning it legitt... play LBP1 from start, no Internet or game save data, until you can create the glitch, and then export the glitch and import it to LBP2 and continue from there).

EDIT littlebigmeteor posted while I posted mine.

I'll add explicitly that I'm all for speedruns that exploit in-game glitches, they're interesting to know about if not to watch. Case in point, though, the version where you import an object and blast through 28 (?) stages is going to result in about 20 minutes of loading screens with quarter-second "plays". Boring and skill-free. String those play moments together for an 8 second video and that could be interesting, especially if you made the video "here's what a regular level would play like (2 minute regular play), here's the speedrun (1/4 second blip), here's the whole game speedrun (7 second blip)". But what I really want to see is the 14 minute (?) version where you create the glitch yourself after zipping through the intro and tutorials! I'd like to see that in raw form.		2011-09-05 03:44:00

Author:
Unknown User

What's the point of a speed run if you're going to cheat? Speed runs are supposed to show off how skilled you are at the game.

It's like entering a foot race and as soon as the race starts, you hop in your car and drive to the finish line.

There are so many different kinds of speed runs, though, and they demonstrate different skills. Taking every dirty advantage and glitching through a game shows a level of planning and forethought that is admirable. Granted, the speed run proposed here is going to be mostly menus and loading screens and that's not too exciting to watch. Even so, the question is "What is the shortest amount of time during which a fresh install of LBP2 can advance to the credits?" It'd be interesting to know.

It's a bit like the argument about using emulation tools to perform speed runs of classic games. In the end, there's a place for both "cheating" and "non-cheating" runs. On one side we see what the best players can do against the game in its intended state and on the other we see what it would look like if we built a super robot just to play video games very quickly. It's all perfectly good data to submit to the hive mind. 		2011-09-05 04:48:00

Author:
Uncuddly
Posts: 237

What's the point of a speed run if you're going to cheat? Speed runs are supposed to show off how skilled you are at the game.

It's like entering a foot race and as soon as the race starts, you hop in your car and drive to the finish line.

Actually, glitching is useful in speed runs. Most record speed runs exploit glitches, whether they show off skill or not, to get the best times. I don't really think of glitching as cheating because technically it is part of the game, whether the devs wanted it in there or not. Cheating would be like hacking or playing frame by frame.


I'm no speedrun purist, but it sounds like the accomplishment is in that first procedure, self-contained within LBP2. It shows how fast the game can be beat in a vacuum - no Internet, no previous game saves, no external help. That's going to count for a lot more than a much-reduced super speed run that's more about creating an object prior to the start of the speedrun -- which ought to be shown in video, to be interesting. If that happens in LBP1, you should make it a combo speed run (i.e., a speedrun for LBP2 that, while exploiting a glitch, does so by earning it legitt... play LBP1 from start, no Internet or game save data, until you can create the glitch, and then export the glitch and import it to LBP2 and continue from there).

EDIT littlebigmeteor posted while I posted mine.

I'll add explicitly that I'm all for speedruns that exploit in-game glitches, they're interesting to know about if not to watch. Case in point, though, the version where you import an object and blast through 28 (?) stages is going to result in about 20 minutes of loading screens with quarter-second "plays". Boring and skill-free. String those play moments together for an 8 second video and that could be interesting, especially if you made the video "here's what a regular level would play like (2 minute regular play), here's the speedrun (1/4 second blip), here's the whole game speedrun (7 second blip)". But what I really want to see is the 14 minute (?) version where you create the glitch yourself after zipping through the intro and tutorials! I'd like to see that in raw form.

As for it being self contained, there's a speed run category called "new game+" which is starting a new game, but using previous games/saves to help you. Sort of like doing a glitch in one save that carries over to new games. So importing from LBP 1 is legal.

And I agree, it may not be entertaining to watch besides the first few levels, but my goal is to beat a 5-6 hour game in half an hour, not make something entertaining. If it takes about 20 seconds for each level including loading/pod time, that's about 8:20. Add about 20 minutes (which is my goal for intro + di vinci levels + executing the glitch) and that's a really insane time. Although, I agree with you. Even though I'm not aiming for an "entertainment" run, I'll probably end up cutting out the loading times from the video and beating the game in like 20 minutes.

One more thing. I've already made a speed run for both LBP's without the overlord glitch, which took about an hour for the first and an hour and a half for the second (not including loading/pod/scoreboard time). So if you think the new run will have a lack of skill, you can always watch the first one (youtube channel is ClayPeopleBroadcast, if you were interested /shameless self promoting)		2011-09-05 21:20:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

If you still think it's morally wrong, I'm sorry. Exploiting glitches is actually recommended in speed runs, if it gets you a faster time. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Why you would want to do this is beyond me. I'm also not sure where you ever thought it was acceptable to cheat during a "speed run" in any game. I'm pretty sure exploiting a hole in the game that was not intended by its developers is considered cheating.

For instance, Mario Brothers speed runs don't use exploits but instead cleverly hidden areas that allow the player to skip to the very last levels of the game. There's no secret code they enter at the beginning that gives them invulnerability and super-speed.


Actually, glitching is useful in speed runs. Most record speed runs exploit glitches, whether they show off skill or not, to get the best times. I don't really think of glitching as cheating because technically it is part of the game, whether the devs wanted it in there or not. Cheating would be like hacking or playing frame by frame.

Here's the definition:


cheat/CHēt/

Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage. Source: Google (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cheat+definition)You can misconstrue and euphemize all you like, but a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.

I'm not sure you'll get too much credibility in the LBP community for using the most despised glitch in such a way.		2011-09-05 22:21:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

Why you would want to do this is beyond me. I'm also not sure where you ever thought it was acceptable to cheat during a "speed run" in any game. I'm pretty sure exploiting a hole in the game that was not intended by its developers is considered cheating.

http://speeddemosarchive.com

We only publish the fastest runs submitted to us. Players are expected to use every method at their disposal, including glitches, to minimize time; side issues such as entertainment are secondary.



For instance, Mario Brothers speed runs don't use exploits but instead cleverly hidden areas that allow the player to skip to the very last levels of the game. There's no secret code they enter at the beginning that gives them invulnerability and super-speed.

That's because in those games glitches don't save time or aren't executable without being tool assisted. It's one rare occasion where beating the game as intended is the fastest possible way to do it. Also, there are no "cleverly hidden" shortcuts in LBP 2's story mode. If there are, I'm all ears.


Here's the definition:
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.
You can misconstrue and euphemize all you like, but a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.


This is exactly why it isn't cheating. The glitches are available for anyone who wants to use them. It's not like I'm changing the game in a way that no one else can. It's still the same game everyone else is playing. Now if you say "well you might as well just steal cards from the deck because there's no one stopping you!" that's against the rules of the game. The rules of LBP aren't the rules the community sets. They're the rules that the game engine sets.

When you're creating with the infinite layer glitch or blending objects, is that cheating? No. In fact MM accepts it because it produces outstanding results. The overlord glitch will produce outstanding results from the speed running perspective.


I'm not sure you'll get too much credibility in the LBP community for using the most despised glitch in such a way.

Well then I'm sorry I asked. I didn't expect so many people to jump down my throat like this. I assumed most people accepted glitches in speed runs (as they should). Go watch Portal beaten in 10 minutes, or Morrowind in 5. Those impressive times wouldn't be possible without glitching.

I just got a response on my SDA thread, and apparently importing objects made in LBP 1 for an LBP 2 speed run isn't legal. So I guess I won't be doing this. Happy? -.-		2011-09-05 23:32:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

This is exactly why it isn't cheating. The glitches are available for anyone who wants to use them. It's not like I'm changing the game in a way that no one else can. It's still the same game everyone else is playing. Now if you say "well you might as well just steal cards from the deck because there's no one stopping you!" that's against the rules of the game. The rules of LBP aren't the rules the community sets. They're the rules that the game engine sets.

Well exploiting a hole in the game engine that is currently being patched is something I would say is, not against the rules per say, but no doubt not what the level creator or the game engine designers intended at all. You are using an unintended and undesirable hole in the game engine to then post your time against others skill in completing the level.

Sorta like.. "yup, I can do tower of whoop in 2 seconds, I just emitted a new end gate." What would be the point of that? That would almost be like entering a hot dog eating contest and instead of actually eating any, you just dump them all on the floor and say, DONE! YAY me!

..just really doesn't show any talent nor in the spirit of things, but you are more than welcome to do whatever you like. 		2011-09-06 00:27:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Well exploiting a hole in the game engine that is currently being patched is something I would say is, not against the rules per say, but no doubt not what the level creator or the game engine designers intended at all. You are using an unintended and undesirable hole in the game engine to then post your time against others skill in completing the level.

Sorta like.. "yup, I can do tower of whoop in 2 seconds, I just emitted a new end gate." What would be the point of that? That would almost be like entering a hot dog eating contest and instead of actually eating any, you just dump them all on the floor and say, DONE! YAY me!

..just really doesn't show any talent nor in the spirit of things, but you are more than welcome to do whatever you like.

Yeah, hole in the engine = hole in the rules, which means it's totally legal.

I understand what you're saying though. But again, I'm not trying to be impressive and brag, saying "Yeah I beat the entire game in like 20 minutes". I'm just trying to find the minimum time span possible between when you gain control in the intro and when you reach the ending cutscene.		2011-09-06 00:35:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

http://speeddemosarchive.com

You did read the rules on that site, right?



BANNED CHEATS/HACKS
First, and most obviously, NO CHEATING. Only fairly produced runs are accepted. Ask on the forum if there are any questions about what we permit. If there is no answer on the forum, then try asking Flip (http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/profile/Flip.html). We also reserve the right to reject any run for any reason (including, but not limited to, suspected cheating or objectionable content, such as pornography)...To be fair, I'm surprised you would even consider a run like this considering you probably hold the record for the world's fastest LBP run, or at least so I would assume since this is the first time I've heard of such a thing.



The glitches are available for anyone who wants to use them. It's not like I'm changing the game in a way that no one else can. It's still the same game everyone else is playing.I would bet all the money in my bank account that you are the only one that meets these criteria:

a) know how to delete your profile and restore an unpatched version of LBP2
b) know how to reproduce the overlord glitch
c) are interested in using it for a speed run

The version you are using is 1.0. The rest of us are all up to date with 1.05. You are using the overlord technique (which allows you to do things you were not intended to do, such as emit in your pod, etc.) to allow you to gain an advantage over other players.


Now if you say "well you might as well just steal cards from the deck because there's no one stopping you!" that's against the rules of the game. The rules of LBP aren't the rules the community sets. They're the rules that the game engine sets.I agree, which is why it was patched to prevent the engine from making it possible.


When you're creating with the infinite layer glitch or blending objects, is that cheating? No. In fact MM accepts it because it produces outstanding results. The overlord glitch will produce outstanding results from the speed running perspective.When MM comes out in support of the Overlord technique and says how wonderful it is for the community and makes efforts to make sure the technique won't be broken in any subsequent patches or versions, then I will agree with you.


Well then I'm sorry I asked. I didn't expect so many people to jump down my throat like this. I assumed most people accepted glitches in speed runs (as they should). Go watch Portal beaten in 10 minutes, or Morrowind in 5. Those impressive times wouldn't be possible without glitching.

Impressive? Yes. Cheating? Obviously. What is considered fair and completely legit on some speed run forum? Meh.

Look, I witnessed the clean, timed run of SMB with awe when it first hit Youtube. It's impressive that someone took the time to master that. But when I see something that pushes an engine past what it was meant to do, and starts getting into the realms of what people call "glitches" or "bugs", I consider that cheating.

It may be different in someone else's eyes, but there you have it. I find the fact that you legitimately beat the game in an hour and a half to be 100x more impressive than "I used the overlord technique to pwn LBP2 in 43 minutes!" Just sayin'.		2011-09-06 00:47:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239

Well then I'm sorry I asked. I didn't expect so many people to jump down my throat like this.

I'm having flashbacks to a few weeks ago when some folks trashed my topic so badly it got removed!

I'm sorry to hear they put the kebosh on your idea and knowing now you've already made several speedruns of different types I feel a bit guilty for not being more supportive. For what it's worth I still think it's a novel idea and worth doing if you can figure out a way. As you said, even just for the documentation!

Now that the conversation has turned to general debate about speedruns I'd say it's best to lock or delete the thread to avoid heartache. Nobody is ever swayed to agreement but everyone wants to get in on a heated discussions, it's like debating politics or religion, people just become entrenched and grow increasingly brazen the longer it carries on. We have the whole rest of the Internet to find pages and pages of pointless debate, I hope it doesn't drag on for eight pages here. Again I'm sorry for my part in derailing things so early in the thread's life!

Don't let it get you down. Good idea, not so good audience? I hope nobody is passing judgment.

I love speedruns as I said. I even encourage and reward players who blaze through my levels (although they're built for that).		2011-09-06 00:50:00

Author:
Unknown User

What he doing is fairly pointless IMO.
I see the point in a speed run is beating the game as fast as possible without using something
that's almost on the level of hacking tools. and yes. the overlord glitch is a made in game hacking tool.
it's made to hack levels by using tools you are not suppose to use in said level
in order to cheat in some form.

what he is doing is a cheat speed run. and that type is pointless in my-eyes.
who cares you beat the game however fast when you were using cheating tools to do so?
but it also don't matter that much. it's his game. and as it's offline and if it stays offline,
then it really don't matter what he does with his game.
as it does not effect anyone besides himself.

but still. I still fail to see the point in doing cheat type speed run.
the only type of glitches one should use in a real speed run is whatever
Glitches that are in the levels themselves, not any you made and took with you.
*mew

And yeah. like someone else said. before to long.
this topic may need to be closed if it keeps going on like this.
pointless debate as the OP will do whatever he wants no matter what people will say anyways.		2011-09-06 01:09:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Yeah, let's not have the speed run debate. It's already a dead horse in every corner of the Internet! Good runs, bad runs... it's all just data for a spreadsheet somewhere. 2011-09-06 01:18:00

Author:
Uncuddly
Posts: 237

Yeah, hole in the engine = hole in the rules, which means it's totally legal.

Not sure I would say that means "totally legal".

Why not look for a full game save then? "Ta da. I am done!" ...oh, but you are after a speed run, which again suggests there is some skill to this. Like the header from the speed demo's archive states "Playing through games quickly, skillfully, and legitimately." ..I just feel by using overlord you lose credibility on the skillfully and legitimately part of it, but I suppose that is just my opinion. 		2011-09-06 01:25:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Ok, I'm done. I obviously asked about this in the wrong place.. I wasn't asking about whether or not this is right. This is an LBP community, not a speed running community, so I shouldn't have expected you guys to know whether or not using glitches is legal in speed runs. Which it is.

For those of you that supported me, thank you. For those of you who didn't, go watch my "legit-in-your-eyes" runs on youtube. Oh wait, you'll probably go crazy again when you see the Meerkat Kingdom route I used because the level designer accidentally put a hole in the map and I used it, god forbid.


Now that the conversation has turned to general debate about speedruns I'd say it's best to lock or delete the thread to avoid heartache.

This.		2011-09-06 01:26:00

Author:
RabidJellyfish
Posts: 130

For those of you who didn't, go watch my "legit-in-your-eyes" runs on youtube. Oh wait, you'll probably go crazy again when you see the Meerkat Kingdom route I used because the level designer accidentally put a hole in the map and I used it, god forbid.

Ummm.. No thanks! I'd rather create something fun in LBP. 		2011-09-06 01:28:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

using glitches is legal in speed runs. Which it is.

clearly you don't know the differences of glitches from the levels themselves
and making in game hacks. people were saying using a in game hack like Overlord is
is wrong for a speed run. your creating something not made in the game itself and taking it
with you in to the other levels. that is almost the same thing as using hacking tools.
Meerkat Kingdom glitch you talk about was a glitch the level itself had.
not something you made and took in to the level.
but yeah I'm done here now.

like I said before. you will do what you want.
and as long it stays offline it is OK and nothing really wrong IMO.
*mew		2011-09-06 01:41:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Ummm.. No thanks! I'd rather create something fun in LBP.

No, you'd rather stumble onto a thread that's not your business, tell him his idea of fun is both immoral and redundant, then get the last word.

If you really want to be an advocate for legitimacy and legality, there's no reason to make three comments in a help thread when you don't intend to help anyone.

Leave this guy alone. It's a shame there could be someone out there with an understanding of data and patches who will never get to speak if this thread is needlessly locked.		2011-09-06 01:43:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

No, you'd rather stumble onto a thread that's not your business, tell him his idea of fun is both immoral and redundant, then get the last word.

If you really want to be an advocate for legitimacy and legality, there's no reason to make three comments in a help thread when you don't intend to help anyone.

Leave this guy alone. It's a shame there could be someone out there with an understanding of data and patches who will never get to speak if this thread is needlessly locked.

Ok... my bad, I should not have commented. Feel free to berate me any way you choose.

I guess I just feel the overlord glitch is bad and has no business here on LBPC. ..but maybe this site is changing.		2011-09-06 02:01:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

To be fair, I was trying to give credit where credit was due, however sidetracked I became with the meta debate on whether or not it was "cheating" or not. Truth is, the Overlord technique and its subsequent repercussions have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, and I suppose this thread brought some of that back to the forefront in my statements. For that, I apologize.

Regardless, the OP has asked for this thread to be locked, and so it shall.		2011-09-06 02:05:00

Author:
schm0
Posts: 1239


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