Archive: 25 posts

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Here's a little trick I use when creating, I wire every button on the controlinator to it's own tag. In my case, this eliminates most of the visible wires. Like this- http://id.lbp.me/img/ft/02dca9cce602dea81ba2b7b34ada3ff116b25b21.jpg

2011-08-30 04:25:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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I will wire the buttons I need. Wiring all of them is a waste of time and thermo. Additionally I don't always use tag because it might be wired to something on the same chip or a nested chip, and tags won't work so I'll keep it all wired.

2011-08-30 05:17:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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I take all logic which will go out off the controlinator into a michroship and then taking the option on michroship "outgoing wires off".Dont know if I said it correctly but it should make wires invincible when michroship is closed. Very usefull

2011-08-30 05:38:00 Author: Seveni_7 Posts: 109

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I have several microchips on the controlinator, in the form of a PS3 controller's button layout. I set up all of the controls and tags in there, as well as all the other logic that is related to the button that the microchip takes the place of.

2011-08-30 09:05:00 Author: Clayton Posts: 181

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I will wire the buttons I need. Wiring all of them is a waste of time and thermo. Additionally I don't always use tag because it might be wired to something on the same chip or a nested chip, and tags won't work so I'll keep it all wired. It IS overdoing it to wire every button to a tag, but I do that while creating in case I want to use a button I hadn't planned on. It was very quick for me to take advantage of using coordinating tags and sensors on the same chip to my advantage. I haven't tried using the sender/receiver function on the controlinator, but in my case, I find my method simpler. I take all logic which will go out off the controlinator into a michroship and then taking the option on michroship "outgoing wires off".Dont know if I said it correctly but it should make wires invincible when michroship is closed. Very usefull You mean you place nodes for the controls on a chip, so the wires can be hidden? clever. I have several microchips on the controlinator, in the form of a PS3 controller's button layout. I set up all of the controls and tags in there, as well as all the other logic that is related to the button that the microchip takes the place of. Sound like we're following the same principle.

2011-08-30 14:22:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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You got it! Exactly what I was trying to say.

2011-08-30 14:28:00 Author: Seveni_7 Posts: 109

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And the point in doing this is what? anyways I just do whatever it takes to get the level working~ *mew

2011-08-30 14:31:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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And the point in doing this is what? anyways I just do whatever it takes to get the level working~ *mew You talkin' to me?! If so, the points are: A- It's wireless, and therefore makes copying easier B- No wires also means less lag in create C- It saves time, because instead of looking for the controlinator, I just need a tag sensor. Like I said, this is more useful in levels which require heavy use of a single controlinator.

2011-08-30 16:00:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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i dont gettit. you say its eliminates most of the visible wires when, well i can see a mass of wires.

2011-08-30 19:08:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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...I wire every button on the controlinator to it's own tag... Not sure I see the point. If you want to transmit controlinator signals wirelessly, you get that for free with the controlinator's transmit/receive options.

2011-08-30 19:44:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I take all logic which will go out off the controlinator into a michroship and then taking the option on michroship "outgoing wires off".Dont know if I said it correctly but it should make wires invincible when michroship is closed. Very usefull did you get into ole pappy's sippin' sauce? And the point in doing this is what? anyways I just do whatever it takes to get the level working~ *mew yep, amen. me too Not sure I see the point. If you want to transmit controlinator signals wirelessly, you get that for free with the controlinator's transmit/receive options. uh, yep. what Aya said. i dont gettit. you say its eliminates most of the visible wires when, well i can see a mass of wires. exactly. You have to use a lot of wires, wired to the tags, to make it work wirelessly. I don't get it either. Makes my head hurt and I'm already Grouchy McGrouch today.

2011-08-30 20:39:00 Author: biorogue Posts: 8424

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Yes, actually this approach is extremely useful and I would even recommend taking it a step further. I use a bot that has every button wired to multiple tags - one for each possible input option (ex: Square Toggle, Square One shot, Square Hold). It takes a while to build because you end up labeling every tag, but once it's done you have complete freedom going forward with any level you build. The pro's outweigh any of the con's. NinjaMCWiz designed this about 6 months ago and he still has it published and available to collect as a prize. I built one when he showed me and beside a few minor tweaks I haven't looked back. Trust me, controlling your bot this way is just the tip of the iceberg. http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6200/6097582745_8fe4e8b204.jpg And it makes stuff like this a lot easier to manage and tweak. http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6069/6098104782_9ffa695c26.jpg

2011-08-30 22:43:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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[/COLOR]oyer;918969]i dont gettit. you say its eliminates most of the visible wires when, well i can see a mass of wires. Visible wires, keyword VISIBLE. Once it's set up, you can ignore it and switch to using tags. Not sure I see the point. If you want to transmit controlinator signals wirelessly, you get that for free with the controlinator's transmit/receive options. It is very similar in nature, but I find it easier to use, as soon as you've built/collected one, especially if you plan to be able to control many things.

2011-08-30 23:23:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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It is very similar in nature, but I find it easier to use, as soon as you've built/collected one, especially if you plan to be able to control many things. Well, you can can just use multiple receiving controlinators if you want to control many things. It's also about 14 times cheaper on the thermo - one send/receive controlinator pair costs the same as a tag/sensor pair, but provides 14 separate analog transmission channels - channels ideally suited for transmitting controller signals. The only disadvantage is you're limited to 8 sets of channels, whereas tag/sensors can have many more.

2011-08-30 23:36:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Eight sets? You mean only eight transmitters can be used? Either way, next time I tidy up my level, I think I'll replace some of my sensors with receivers.

2011-08-31 00:09:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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Not sure I see the point. If you want to transmit controlinator signals wirelessly, you get that for free with the controlinator's transmit/receive options. Yeah, I agree. I don't see the point -_-

2011-08-31 01:03:00 Author: zzmorg82 Posts: 948

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It really depends on what you're building but from a large scale design perspective I think it's considerably easier to use in day to day creating. There are certainly situations where one would use a transmitter/receiver because of the depth of signal data but for the most part it's easiest to build with this design in mind because it saves you time over the long run. All you ever do is drop sensors and label them. It's very easy to quickly manipulate, particularly if you ever have to change local or large scale control schemes. It's form over over function...or function over...lol. Try it, you might like it.

2011-08-31 04:58:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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This approach might be useful in an environment with not just a lot of stuff to control by one player but even moreso where not all events are necessarily user input driven. What I mean by that is, imagine a machine that can be operated by a player when he is standing near but also gets operated by A.I. (for instance an automated, hidden piece of logic, but also a sackbot that walks past). The receiving logic for operating the machine would ideally be completely wireless and not necessarily even be attached to a receiving DCS - of which you would hardwire the control output to OR gates which also receive signals from the A.I.; you'd then only have to use tag sensor that register events to activate the machine. To stick with this approach, you'd not name the tags "Xbutton" or "RstickUp" (because that would after all mean you are 'hardwiring' it) but "Activate", "Confirm", "Abort" or "Next" and "Previous". These are generic commands that any machine in the level can use. If you would like to be more specific, then tags could be "MachineOn", "ToggleCompressor", etcetera. However, those tags I would not set on the base DCS that is on the player bot in order to keep stuff generic. In that case I would set the base DCS to transmit, have a receiving DCS near any machine (activated by player proximity sensor) and have that receiving DCS use the more specifically named tags. Of course, you can still use wires on that receiving DCS to each machine, but just see the bigger picture here: machine operation is separated from who or what controls it, it can be controlled locally but also globally (all machines in the factory operated at once) AND it is very easy to duplicate and reuse (which should be one of your main reasons to follow that route).

2011-08-31 10:48:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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I built something similar to get rid of wires for a complex object. I named all the tags in hex code and felt pretty cool. I like the concept and have evolved it to be a wireless remote controlinator. http://if.lbp.me/img/ft/6df01dc9e972ce0678e6d621265822b40850d3df.jpg Original design. I now have Controlinator set to remote and all the chips on the smaller board have a controlinator in them with one output connected. I like it because I can wirelessly 'bridge' signal within its own microchip without heaps of wires between them. It's only useful for really complicated objects and the labeled microchips help with signal tracing more than any other method I have seen (for me anyway). http://if.lbp.me/img/ft/c8fa333fb016cdcb5b543e06ab4ef9e4d9a59ff9.jpg X goes through a cool down circuit and activates some further logic http://i2.lbp.me/img/ft/8e2c3c9fd7da52a1ba3421a2dac49190de75c802.jpg Time Circuit Control Microchip for my DeLorean... L3 switches the Flux Capacitor on and off. The L Stick LEFT/RIGHT is active ONLY if two other conditions are met. R1 is only on if another condition is met. In case you're wondering what the conditions for R1 is and what it does, well, the middle tag is active if the engine is running (it's accelerate) and the L Stick is only works if the engine is running AND the car is in hover mode (it's the flight stick) Here they are just tracking if you are moving, making sure the time travel effects don't activate otherwise. http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/728bb079299443b244226d3e59046203200eb469.jpg This is the flight control microchip. It's on the same 'master' circuit board As for thermo... well... when the kit is out in an empty level it hardly makes a bump on the thermometer, it's a little more than a sackbot but not by much so I'm OK with it.

2011-08-31 12:23:00 Author: Mr_Fusion Posts: 1799

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Eight sets? You mean only eight transmitters can be used? Well, when you use the transmit/receive option, you have to choose one of the eight standard tag colors to represent the 'channel' you want to use. TBH, it's usually sufficient. Ultimately the signals have to source from somewhere, which is usually an actual controller, and since you can't have more than 4 active controllers, you generally don't need more than 4 channels. There are certainly situations where one would use a transmitter/receiver because of the depth of signal data but for the most part it's easiest to build with this design in mind because it saves you time over the long run. Well, I can certainly envisage situations where the built-in controlinator channels are insufficient - your tap/hold logic being a good example, and in that sort of case I'd probably augment the built-in channels with a few additional tags rather than completely replace them - there doesn't seem to be much point in supporting tap/hold logic for the buttons where you're not actually using them, so you're ultimately just wasting thermo you could've put to better use somewhere else. Another good example might be for detecting button combos like you might need for StreetFighter-esque special moves. This sort of UI abstration is very common in programming, and is usually worth doing, since it's of marginal overhead, but in LBP, the thermo overhead of (what looks like from your pictures) hundreds of additional components can be quite significant. I s'pose at the end of the day it's a trade-off of thermo-efficiency vs. maintainability, so if you find yourself running out of thermo, simplifiying the UI mechanics might give you a bit more to play with, but I guess it just comes down to a matter of personal taste. Personally, I never found using controlinators in isolation any more complicated than tags/sensors, so I honestly can't see a situation where completely replacing them with a custom tag/sensor system provides any additional benefit, e.g. with Antikris's example... If you would like to be more specific, then tags could be "MachineOn", "ToggleCompressor", etcetera. However, those tags I would not set on the base DCS that is on the player bot in order to keep stuff generic. In that case I would set the base DCS to transmit, have a receiving DCS near any machine (activated by player proximity sensor) and have that receiving DCS use the more specifically named tags. ...if I understand correctly, I'd do something similar, i.e. have the main controlinator which the player controls just send through the raw controller signals, and have a specialized receiving controlinator acting as a custom translation matrix, which would activate the "MachineOn", "ToggleCompressor", etc. tags when appropriate, although unless they represent complex button sequences, like having to press up-down-left-right in quick succession, even that seems like overkill. I mean, if the L1 button is always "MachineOn", then you may as well just connect it directly - why use an extra tag/sensor pair if you don't actually need it?

2011-08-31 19:11:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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To quastion "Doesn't anyone else do this?" It does not matter how you do this, as long as it works and don't bring any huge disadvatages to the player you can do whatever you want

2011-08-31 23:25:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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This approach might be useful in an environment with not just a lot of stuff to control by one player but even moreso where not all events are necessarily user input driven. That's (almost) exactly wat I'm (trying to be) doing. To quastion "Doesn't anyone else do this?" It does not matter how you do this, as long as it works and don't bring any huge disadvatages to the player you can do whatever you want What I really wanted to know was "How is your stuff better than mine, and how is it different?" and that's a little long for a title. why use an extra tag/sensor pair if you don't actually need it? Because it's wireless! Also, that picture at the top of the thread is a little dated if that's what anyone's still talking about. It was just the idea and the conversation piece. Apparently the cool kids have theirs set up with 'Press-hold' and 'double-tap' detection tags, which I can dig.

2011-09-01 03:53:00 Author: ThisDudeRufus Posts: 170

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You can have more than 8 controlinator pairings. Just like the labels on tags, where the tag sensor only senses a certain tag with a certain label, edit the name of both the transmitting controlinator nd the recieving one. The recieving one will only pick up the signals of the one with the same color and name as itself.

2011-09-03 23:02:00 Author: L1N3R1D3R Posts: 13447

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You talkin' to me?! If so, the points are: A- It's wireless, and therefore makes copying easier B- No wires also means less lag in create C- It saves time, because instead of looking for the controlinator, I just need a tag sensor. Like I said, this is more useful in levels which require heavy use of a single controlinator. And D- Well this isn't really always required but this set up you have would work very well with remote sackbots. Several people have a holo with a controlinator following the sackbot being controlled, and having wires going from your controlinator to the actual sackbot is bad in the case that the sackbot may die. Well your little tag set up would make for a really good wirelessly controlled sackbot.... Although.. I guess that would be the same as mapping the received buttons to whatever you want the sackbot to do.. and it would still be wireless. Also another cool use of this would be limiting what that controlinator does in specific parts of the level.

2011-09-03 23:44:00 Author: Dortr Posts: 548

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You can have more than 8 controlinator pairings. Just like the labels on tags, where the tag sensor only senses a certain tag with a certain label, edit the name of both the transmitting controlinator nd the recieving one. The recieving one will only pick up the signals of the one with the same color and name as itself. I just tested this, and renaming the controlinator doesn't have any effect. Doesn't really matter - you generally never need more than 4 anyway, since you can only have 4 active controllers. The only other way you can source signals is putting a controlinator transmitter inside a Sackbot's 'brain', and wiring to the inputs, although I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. I guess if you have a complex sequence of Sackbot actions on a sequencer, you could use that to transmit it to multiple Sackbots (thus only paying the thermo cost for the sequencer once), but it seems like a pretty unusual use-case.

2011-09-05 22:22:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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