LittleBigPlanet 2 - 3 - Vita - Karting #1
Randomizer
Archive: 25 posts
Is it me or is the randomizer not really random???? I have several emitters making random objects, but every time I press replay the same sequence comes out  | 2011-08-17 12:08:00 Author: Tricky  Posts: 46 |
| Is it me or is the randomizer not really random???? I have several emitters making random objects, but every time I press replay the same sequence comes out Nop it isn't (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=47197-Randomizers-not-actually-random&highlight=randomiser). It has been broken ever since LBP2 Beta version 1.02, and they still haven't gotten around to fixing it... | 2011-08-17 14:23:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob  Posts: 605 |
| That was addressed in the last patch. I'm using randomizers in a level I have now, and they have been modified so that they are much more random now. Tricky, could you describe your setup? There may be something else going on that is causing them not to be random. | 2011-08-17 15:28:00 Author: tdarb  Posts: 689 |
| I have done rigorous testing, and the Randomiser is still broken in my 1.05 version of LBP2... Here's a setup that will prove it to you: Place down a piece of cardboard. Stamp 3 Light Objects into the cardboard. Wire a Randomiser (min,max On to 1 sec, min,max Off to 2 sec) to the three lights. Place down a Button and wire this to the Randomiser. Save your level and Change to Play Mode. Now jump on and off the Button in any way you like and watch the sequence of lights turning on and off. No matter how you choose to do this, the sequence will sadly always be the same on subsequent replays If you re-save your level, the Randomiser is re-seeded, and a new sequence will emerge, but it's still the same sequence you will experience on every play through of that exact version of the level. EDIT: Also note that the status of the bug on getsatisfaction.com (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/random_gate_doesnt_work-u19wi), still hasn't changed from "Acknowledged" to "Solved", which is another indication that the bug is still in effect. | 2011-08-17 16:00:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605 |
| Strange. the patch notes for 1.05 says it was addressed. I guess what I have been seeing is reseeding from subsequent saves. I just tested with a new randomizer and lights, and it does still produce the same sequence. It's almost as if they shifted the seed time to point of save rather than point of creation where I seem to recall it was before (I could be mistaken on that). I wish they could make it reseed when you loaded the level to play. | 2011-08-17 16:24:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689 |
| I wish they could make it reseed when you loaded the level to play. ^I couldn't agree more! Shouldn't take 8+ months to figure that out right? | 2011-08-17 16:28:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605 |
| That last exchange got me thinking, and I found something. The reason my randomizers are working properly is that they are being emitted. If you create a randomizer, place it on an object and put that in an emitter, each time you emit one, it is newly seeded based on the time in the level. I've just verified this using the four light setup from the test level before, and restarting/reloading it several times. So perhaps placing the randomizer on a chip on a piece of holo and having it activate tags would work in this case. Just use a player sensor to activate the emitting so that it is unlikely to happen at the exact same point in play every time. | 2011-08-17 16:43:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689 |
| but every time I press replay Mabye it's because you press rewind all the time...... Or I could be wrong :/ | 2011-08-17 23:56:00 Author: zzmorg82  Posts: 948 |
| Mabye it's because you press rewind all the time...... Or I could be wrong :/ I'm pretty sure that by "replay" he didn't mean rewind... I think he actually meant "press the button to make it go." | 2011-08-18 05:56:00 Author: Speedynutty68  Posts: 1614 |
I tried having the randomizers emitted when the player passes through a player sensor and indeed that makes it (more) random  Thanks for that tip!! But I went back to another level I made (a collapse game, where the game starts with a grid filled with different colored blocks), and I can't believe I never noticed it always starts with the same pattern! (It matters a little less in that game because of allot of user input after that it changes allot) But what I was wondering how I can fix that. Seeing as I don't want the player walking around first and then start the randomizer when a player reaches a point. They get locked in the controllinater right away. | 2011-08-18 06:10:00 Author: Tricky Posts: 46 |
| But what I was wondering how I can fix that. Seeing as I don't want the player walking around first and then start the randomizer when a player reaches a point. They get locked in the controllinater right away. Maybe you can have a "press X to start"-screen, and then emit the Randomiser the first time the user presses X? | 2011-08-18 10:44:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605 |
| Hello, Couldn't be bothered starting a new thread. My randomizer problem is different though. Basically I have a randomizer set to emit something every 20 secs or so. However sometimes, it just won't emit. I think this is because it selects the same option twice in a row. I've tried setting the randomizer to "add and reset when full", but the same problem seems to occur. Is there any simple way around this? Thanks. | 2011-08-29 11:41:00 Author: Ali_Star  Posts: 4085 |
| try setting it to override pattern. | 2011-08-29 11:45:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689 |
| It is set to override...... I think. I'll double check now. EDIT: Yes it was set to override. | 2011-08-29 11:52:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085 |
| If you turn the signal of the Randomiser off when you are not using it, you should be good. Microchips are the perfect solution for this  Here you can see a working setup with only 2 outputs: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36425&d=1314630017 The Randomiser is set to Override Pattern, and the two Toggles simply represent the two inputs which are victim to the randomisation. | 2011-08-29 16:04:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605 |
| Hello, Couldn't be bothered starting a new thread. My randomizer problem is different though. Basically I have a randomizer set to emit something every 20 secs or so. However sometimes, it just won't emit. I think this is because it selects the same option twice in a row. I've tried setting the randomizer to "add and reset when full", but the same problem seems to occur. Is there any simple way around this? Thanks. Normally the randomizer seems to retrigger the output even though the same output is selected. :/ Are you sure nothing gets in the way of the emitted object at times? You could either try to set, if you haven't, the emitter to one shot or set the randomizer to toggle and half the time of randomization to 10 seconds maybe?... | 2011-08-29 19:27:00 Author: zupaton Posts: 167 |
| Normally the randomizer seems to retrigger the output even though the same output is selected. :/ Are you sure nothing gets in the way of the emitted object at times? You could either try to set, if you haven't, the emitter to one shot or set the randomizer to toggle and half the time of randomization to 10 seconds maybe?... I'm 100% sure that nothing is blocking the emitted object, because it is a stationary object, that is emitted to a specific place. I had the same problem with another set of emitters activated bey a randomizer. I found a way out of that one that wouldn't work for the situation I'm talking about here. The emitters are all one shot, and I only want one of them to be activated at any one time. I actually have the main randomizer (which is acitvated when a timer reaches 20secs). Maybe that's not the way to do it though. I've just thought of another way to go about this in my head as I type, I might give that a go. I'll give your method a go to, bob. Thanks. | 2011-08-29 20:02:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085 |
| ...I think this is because it selects the same option twice in a row... Is there any simple way around this? Instead of using the timing options built-in to the randomizer, use an external self-resetting timer to trigger it in "one-shot" mode, then AND each of the randomizer's ouputs with the output from the external timer, which ensures the resulting signals are only high for a single frame. | 2011-08-29 20:44:00 Author: Aya042  Posts: 2870 |
| Instead of using the timing options built-in to the randomizer, use an external self-resetting timer to trigger it in "one-shot" mode, then AND each of the randomizer's ouputs with the output from the external timer, which ensures the resulting signals are only high for a single frame. I see. I did have an external timer for the randomizer initially. That may have been what was causing the problems. I may give your method a go too. Thanks. Oh, and can someone explain to me what exactly does the "override pattern" input action actually do? | 2011-08-30 13:09:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085 |
| Oh, and can someone explain to me what exactly does the "override pattern" input action actually do? If you use the default Pattern On/Off setting, the Randomiser will use the timing tweaks for On and Off time set by the player, as long as the Randomiser receives an activating signal to the input. If you use the Pattern Override setting on the other hand, the randomiser will randomise a single time every time it receives an activating signal to the input. If you use this setting, and the Randomiser picks the same output twice, there will be no Off-state in the resulting signal between the two randomisations. That's why you can use a Microchip to turn off the signal when it's not needed, to generate two separate pulses to the same, random output. You will also notice that the On and Off times are now greyed out, as they are not used with this setting. | 2011-08-30 13:16:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605 |
| If you use the default Pattern On/Off setting, the Randomiser will use the timing tweaks for On and Off time set by the player, as long as the Randomiser receives an activating signal to the input. If you use the Pattern Override setting on the other hand, the randomiser will randomise a single time every time it receives an activating signal to the input. If you use this setting, and the Randomiser picks the same output twice, there will be no Off-state in the resulting signal between the two randomisations. That's why you can use a Microchip to turn off the signal when it's not needed, to generate two separate pulses to the same, random output. You will also notice that the On and Off times are now greyed out, as they are not used with this setting. Right. So, if my randomizer is already on a Microchip and I deactivate THAT chip, will it have the same effect? Because the setup I have is that on randomizer (the main one) is linked to several microchips (about 20 or so). Each of those microchips has their own randomizer (which the main one is connected to), that randomizer is attached to 6 emitters. I hope that makes sense.  | 2011-08-30 14:08:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085 |
| What does the randomizer use for its seed value? | 2011-08-30 20:25:00 Author: Chazprime  Posts: 587 |
| As far as I know, it uses the last save date. So randomizers are not truly random. I haven't fully tested it, but have verified it i play/create mode. It is possible the behavior is different on published levels though. That needs to be tested. There's a good discussion about it here https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=61889-Randomizer&p=910631&viewfull=1#post910631 | 2011-08-30 20:51:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689 |
| It appears to be based on the Date/Time that it is saved in conjunction with the "game" time that it was created/emitted. So if you emit a chip with the randomizer on it, you can get a truly random result. Notice I say you CAN get it to work. I found in my testing that if I emit it at the start of the game/level it will yield the same results every time. But if I trigger the emit on a player action (for instance: I have my Controllinators wired to emit when any of the main controls are pressed or moved, so nothing will happen until the player acts) it will seed the randomizer on the "game" time - the amount of time since the game was started. It works very well. Of course, this method requires that your randomizer output send a wireless signal, since it has to be emitted. (Look for my upcoming versus level: Chicken Chuckin' for an example of this). | 2011-08-30 23:52:00 Author: v0rtex  Posts: 1878 |
| I've had a problem with not-very-random randomizers before, but I "accidentally" came up with a way to fix the problem. I connected the randomizer to the inputs of a selector, so only one output is on & stays on at a time, & I wired an inversed timer to the randomizer to stop it from cycling after a certain amount of time. Simply resetting the timer would resume the randomizer & will behave completely random. If you only want an output to activate after the timer is up, you can connect the output of the timer to a NOT gate, place AND gates for each of the selector outputs & connect the NOT gate once to every AND gate. I have tried this in create mode & it seems to behave completely random, even after rewinding, although it had a selector set to 10 inputs/outputs. I've tried it using a smaller selector, but it comes up with the same output after rewinding & resuming, so I don't know if the patch doesn't work with me. | 2011-08-30 23:56:00 Author: Shuriken_Star Posts: 114 |
LBPCentral Archive Statistics
Posts: 1077139
Threads: 69970
Members: 9661
Archive-Date: 2019-01-19
Datenschutz
Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.