Archive: 24 posts

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Hey guys, I've always had this problem, I have pictures in my head of how something is going to look - whether it be drawing a picture or making a level in LittleBigPlanet - but they never turn out right. I have extremely high standards, i want to be on a par with the best creators, which means when i do get these ideas, i make the start, become un-happy with it, and have to reject the idea. It ruins me. I would have so many good levels published, if it weren't for this block, in which i cannot make a level i've planned in my head. So i just want to know, if you get this, and if you do, how you overcome it..

2011-07-23 16:42:00 Author: Bang126 Posts: 157

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I think for me I started concerning my self with smaller objects and not concern myself so much the whole level. In fact, I don't build levels in one level. I build smaller sections in several separate workshops. I come up with small platforming concepts and once I am happy and feel it is really fun (huge emphasis on fun), I make a copy and start adding all the graphics and extra goodies to make it look awesome as well as testing the heck out of it. I usually do a copy and keep adding in case I make a wrong turn, I can go back. So I end up with several versions by the time I am finished. Just a note on the sections.. Depending on the level in progress, the "next section" usually might have to have a certain large shape or size. I snag the surrounding elements and off to a workshop where I can make the negative template of that area. That gives me my dimensions of that next section.. That is when I can start thinking about what kind of fun stuff should be next. I can either go to some of my platforming concepts in other workshops and see what might be a good fit or come up with something else. Once I have that figured out, I can proceed with that section.. know it's look and feel and finish the design. Once a section is finally done, I then capture and plop it in to the actual level and move it into place. This keeps the timeline down in the actual level and also insures that section is thoroughly tested well before the level is ever done. Sorta like making components for a spaceship or something. lol I also do quite a bit of sketching for platform elements as well as design elements.. I don't really sketch the whole level out. Just small bits that come to mind on what I think might be fun.

2011-07-23 17:06:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Loads of creators suffer from the desease of 'not-coming-out-perfectly-itis' but the easiest option in my opinion is to form a creation session with creators who DO NOT suffer from this desease and ask them to help you do what you want. If you're kind enough, you might let them add there own personal touches. Sometimes I believe that all creators suffer from this, so they compromise and do something random that ACTUALLY turns out good.

2011-07-23 17:13:00 Author: Unknown User

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I have this problem also. I try and make individual shapes the paste them into my desired background if it still int looking right, I may leave the idea or add the next shapes to it. Sometimes you need to see the whole concept before deciding what you think.

2011-07-23 17:14:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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All I do is make random stuff that might be useful in a proper level without knowing it. Since my understanding of logic is low, I just play around, hoping to find out something new. Since I am a car engineer, I use controllinators to drive forwards & backwards, in & out and for turning my cars into road adapted weapons. Hopefully i might be asked to make cars for some people.

2011-07-23 17:25:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yeah, tried drawing, tried making sections, I hate working with other people on LBP...yeah, theres no help for me

2011-07-23 18:06:00 Author: Bang126 Posts: 157

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Yeah, tried drawing, tried making sections, I hate working with other people on LBP...yeah, theres no help for me Well.. sorry to say, but that is especially true when you give up. Keep trying ! You just have to find your niche!

2011-07-23 18:11:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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wow I have the exact same problem, and what I figured is help always keeps me off that "disease". So usually I ask my friends if they want to help me with my level. Ususallly they say yes. And everything is just much easier with a friend. Edit: I just realised you said you hate working with people on LBP... well not all people are bad.

2011-07-23 19:01:00 Author: fighterwindplus Posts: 403

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The hardest part of making a level is indeed the beginning. It's annoying for me when I'm creating a level that I have to make my super-awesome-fun-time-level-with-super-sophisticated-logic from empty space. Today I fought past annoying feeling and I got something going, like what I did with my now-abandoned-and-unfinished zombie top-down shooter and my space-themed top-down shooter currently on hold. All you need to do is get something going. I almost gave up on starting my mini-golf level because I didn't know where to start, but I started somewhere and got a foundation going. You probably won't get the exact design right the first time, so just start with the basics (in both looks and logic) and get into the more sophisticated stuff as you go along. (Patching up the graphics to where you intended it to be, implementing the more logic-heavy portions of your levels.)

2011-07-23 19:02:00 Author: BIGGamerer Posts: 182

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Yeh, you keep trying. Or go at it a different way. I've scrapped countless big sections of levels and just started again because it doesn't match up to what I'm trying to do in one aspect or another. If you can imagine it your head, then it's there somewhere, you just occasionally have to jump through an awful lot of hoops to get it. Don't just trash the idea though and don't force yourself to do it, as that can just zap your enthusiasm for it entirely. Move onto a different section that you DO have ideas for and just let the problematic part simmer for a while, ideas can pop into your head if your not trying to hard.

2011-07-23 19:09:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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Try drawing (on paper) a very basic layout of your level. Try to match that with what you're designing in lbp. Worry about detail later. First steps should be form and function. If you're not good with logic, find someone who can help with those sections. If you're not good with scenery, find someone who is, and so on. If you haven't found someone that you like to create with, you probably haven't found the right person yet... They have to mesh with your style, not be a thief, not destroy everything you create, and be willing to help. You need to be prepared to return the favor, though.

2011-07-23 19:23:00 Author: shane_danger Posts: 283

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Unfortunately, there is no magic trick to let you go straight to being able to build/draw exactly what you want. It requires a great deal of practice to get there. I've been an amateur artist all of my life and my drawings still don't come out exactly like I imagined. Eventually I have to settle for close enough and move on to the next one... BUT each time I do this, I get better and my actual drawings come out closer to my ideal. It's the same way in lbp. I started out primarily as a mech builder and yech were my early ones ugly. They also didn't work all that well (though they worked better than any I'd seen in lbp at that point). As I kept trying, I was able to build better functioning and better looking models at which point I was embarrassed by and deleted my earlier ones. My last mech in lbp is still imnsho (in my not so humble opinion ) the best available with lbp1 tech. As for level design, I still consider myself a novice--I spent most my time building mechs and hardly any building levels so I didn't get much practice. So, while my most recent level has been really successful (I just checked the other day and it's the 23rd most played community level since lbp2 came out), the actual level design is a bit simple and amateurish. I compensated by using what I learned about visual effects, technical processes and cool tricks and glitches from all that mech building time to make weapon/gameplay mechanic and enemy A.I. that most people seem to really enjoy and that works well with a pretty simple level design. So my point is keep practicing and find ways to play to your strengths while you work on improving your weaknesses. Another thing I'd like to point out is that if i were more willing to compromise on my vision, I'd probably have quite a few more finished levels that I would actually not be terribly ashamed of. All that time building mechs, I was working on an ambitious level to use them in, but I was never able to get it working smoothly enough to be fun. If I'd scaled back on the ambition a bit, I might've been able to make a fun level even if it wasn't what I originally envisioned.

2011-07-23 21:30:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Unfortunately, there is no magic trick to let you go straight to being able to build/draw exactly what you want. It requires a great deal of practice to get there. I've been an amateur artist all of my life and my drawings still don't come out exactly like I imagined. Eventually I have to settle for close enough and move on to the next one... BUT each time I do this, I get better and my actual drawings come out closer to my ideal. It's the same way in lbp. I started out primarily as a mech builder and yech were my early ones ugly. They also didn't work all that well (though they worked better than any I'd seen in lbp at that point). As I kept trying, I was able to build better functioning and better looking models at which point I was embarrassed by and deleted my earlier ones. My last mech in lbp is still imnsho (in my not so humble opinion ) the best available with lbp1 tech. As for level design, I still consider myself a novice--I spent most my time building mechs and hardly any building levels so I didn't get much practice. So, while my most recent level has been really successful (I just checked the other day and it's the 23rd most played community level since lbp2 came out), the actual level design is a bit simple and amateurish. I compensated by using what I learned about visual effects, technical processes and cool tricks and glitches from all that mech building time to make weapon/gameplay mechanic and enemy A.I. that most people seem to really enjoy and that works well with a pretty simple level design. So my point is keep practicing and find ways to play to your strengths while you work on improving your weaknesses. Another thing I'd like to point out is that if i were more willing to compromise on my vision, I'd probably have quite a few more finished levels that I would actually not be terribly ashamed of. All that time building mechs, I was working on an ambitious level to use them in, but I was never able to get it working smoothly enough to be fun. If I'd scaled back on the ambition a bit, I might've been able to make a fun level even if it wasn't what I originally envisioned. I'm not exactly a novice, I've been creating for well over two years, had relatively successful levels on LBP1 (20,000+ total plays). Like you, I am more of a technical guy, I cannot create beautifully crafted designs, but I simplify logic, and refine it, i make the logic before the level, then cannot create what I thought forthe level and then quit because of it. I've tried drawing previously, not great, I find it just as difficult to make m ideas. And with regards of the unfinished levels, I think we all have levels that ha potential, but we maybe had too much ambition, which is the creators curse...

2011-07-23 21:56:00 Author: Bang126 Posts: 157

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Personally I spend weeks on a single object until I consider it passable. You're rejecting ideas in their earliest stage, which is the hardest part to do. You need to be more stubborn and just keep working at it until you're happy. I can't speak for everyone but I doubt creators just magically create something perfect in a few minutes first time, it takes lots or work and they don't give up when at first it doesn't turn out right. This model of a helicopter I made in LBP1 for instance I know took me 2 weeks to make playing every day, including making the stickers and all - there are still parts of it that are meh. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/d3808a00.jpg http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/0705f980.jpg http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/ecc955de.jpg

2011-07-24 01:45:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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I usually just do things one-by-one at a time.

2011-07-24 02:36:00 Author: zzmorg82 Posts: 948

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How I push through Creator's block: 1) "I told so-and-so this will be finished TONIGHT." When an idea is half-formed but not meeting my expectations, I force myself to create enough of the level that if my friends were to play it TONIGHT, I wouldn't be breaking any promise that I would have new content ready (although no promise is ever made). This is often a stronger motivator than trying to be as good as the best of LBPCentral. 2) ) "I'm on your moon, and I'm improving your crappy idea." Nothing focuses my attention more than when someone else is in control of Create mode. Especially if I'm there to unmuck a mess. When I get depressed about my project (not good enough, etc.) I pretend it's someone else's. I'm better than this. But more importantly, I have a limited amount of time to fix a few things and disappear before the session ends. It's a great way to force myself to try ideas and move forward without feeling the responsibility or inferiority of being... myself. 3) "Check out THIS thermo." If I get stuck on a project, I quarantine it (in the level) and start building something else with the explicit purpose of hiking the thermo. (No cheating by dropping pre-made objects in!) Similar to a jerk kid on someone's moon (see above for well-behaved version of the same) I become a vandal, I force myself to go thematically bonkers, building complex and impossible-to-navigate paths, using unlikely logic, etc. It never uses up as much thermo as I intend, and always yields one or two new ideas. Sometimes I can even take what I made and crash it into the rest of my current level. No need to even capture and copy stuff! DISCLAIMER: These are strategies that work for me, and you can tell when I've used them in my levels, but I will be the first to admit they are a compromise of quality in favor of enjoying myself. By no means do you have to sacrifice your standards in order to enjoy the game! But for overcoming Creator's block, you sometimes have to overcome personal expectations, if only temporarily, by tricking your brain and changing your goals.

2011-07-24 04:53:00 Author: Unknown User

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I find you have to work with the editor, rather than against it. (less semi circles, simplified designs, etc.)

2011-07-24 05:39:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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I'm not exactly a novice, I've been creating for well over two years, had relatively successful levels on LBP1 (20,000+ total plays).....And with regards of the unfinished levels, I think we all have levels that ha potential, but we maybe had too much ambition, which is the creators curse... Sounds like you did better in lbp1 than I did. I dunno', I might've hit 20k total, but for the most part my levels would get to around 3k or so and I didn't have very many--and none of them were up to par with my original visions (five mechs and I still don't have one that I'd be willing to build a level around). My Star Wars level in lbp2 took me completely by surprise with how much it took off. Maybe it helps that I didn't actually have a vision I was aspiring to with that one--it was actually just an experiment to test if the melee weapon mechanic would work for another project that I'm working on...er...planning to work on. I used a lightsaber as the test subject 'cuz I thought it would be a fun visual to play with (and 'cuz I was too lazy to try building the actual weapon I had in mind). My nephew loved playing in my test arena so I kept building it up until it started to resemble an actual level, at which point it attracted the attention of one of my lbp friends who furnished the Darth Vader costume for me to use, which inspired me to go nuts and make a full blown arena level with A.I. enemies and a boss fight. As for my original vision... so far my progress on it is limited to a bunch of characters I've made costumes for and a rough prototype of the melee weapon I want to use, but I'll probably scrap it in favor of a better design. Maybe it's too ambitious--the plan is a multi-level story with at least 3 major chapters, improved melee combat (better than in my Star Wars level), with full voice acting and lots of character development without ever taking control away from the player(s) to make them watch a cutscene (I have some ideas on how to pull that off but I haven't worked it all out yet). I also want to give the player a bit of choice in how they play and have the character react accordingly as if he made the decision. I could go on and on, but my point is that, yeah, maybe I'm a bit too ambitious and I might not ever finish it. Hell, at this rate, I may never make it past the costume design phase But on the other hand, along the way, an experiment I did turned out to be an incredibly successful level that I really enjoy playing and that lots of other people seem to enjoy playing too, so at least something came of this vision. Maybe, as I keep working on this, I'll end up making something else completely unrelated but fun in its own right.

2011-07-24 08:28:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Keep your standards high, but be practical. The trap for a perfectionist to fall into is getting discouraged by limitations. That is why practicality and a healthy realization of how to maintain the illusion for the player is essential. Simple example: a car does not need 4 wheels in LBP. 2 wheels is enough to maintain the illusion. The perfectionist may try to use 4 wheels, for no real good except that he thinks this idea is superior. Then he finds out he needs more layers to make that 3-thick car now move against a background. Discouraged, he gives up. However, what makes that car special is not whether it has 2 or 4 wheels. If there is a great idea behind the car (i.e. it is a Transformer, K.I.T.T. or a bouncing lowrider) then not all tiny details matter. Watch closely to great movies, artwork, designs and events; you will see loads and loads of compromises that were made. And there will be plenty nobody will ever know, because it wasn't obvious and only the creator knew. EDIT: this all may sound preaching but this is me reflecting back on my creative LBP career. Why are there so few levels on my planet? Bingo. I need to force myself to stay interested in a project. Some ideas I don[t even start with because I know there is not yet enough 'gravity' in it to keep me attracted in the long run (and it inevitably requires a lot of time). One way to stay motivated I found, is to work on separate things at once. I am much more motivated to solve a complex part of my level (or make compromises!) if I have made an awesome soundtrack that goes with it. "I can't stop now and throw away this good song!" is my reasoning. And sometimes I postpone parts that are dragging me down; in time ideas change and I might have a better solution for troublesome parts, throw them out entirely or I have gained more knowledge to overcome the problem. Also, be proud of what you successfully create. It should give you the energy to push ahead.

2011-07-24 10:13:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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I agree with a lot of whats been said in this thread. Its about the creative process. Begin with an idea and hammer something out that's really basic and performs a very limited and simple version of whatever it is you intend to make. The whole point is to realize that things are never going to turn out how you saw it in your head. If you've ever worked on any kind of creative arts projects, performing is a good one. The original 'ideas' change constantly, sometimes new script sections are given out hours before a performance, changing a little quirk or nuance of the plot. The Plot has become complex because a serious amount of time has gone into 'developing' the plot. Every idea begins with a simple point, as with any idea. Understand the importance of the creative 'process' and realize that it is very healthy for it to be emergent. Its impossible to make a complicated and intricate thing from scratch, everything goes through stages of development and at every stage the concept evolves and mutates into something slightly different from what it was before. Always solidifying and becoming more idiosyncratic, complex and unique. It is only at the point you are in quite deep that the thing in its self has so much about it that you can create intricacy between the components that have slowly emerged to become part of the whole. But to get there in the first place you have to have faith in the simple thing, because within it lies the seed of your idea, see it through, explore what inspiration comes to mind within your engagement with your concept and do not be afraid to flow with where it wants to go. Restricting yourself to the rigidity of an idea 'as is' and scrapping things because they have not attained what is essentially unattainable in the first place is sure going to give you 'creators block', because that perspective in its self is inherently opposed to 'creation', which is by nature emergent and unpredictable. /pseudo-meta ramble

2011-07-27 23:17:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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This model of a helicopter I made in LBP1 for instance I know took me 2 weeks to make playing every day, including making the stickers and all - there are still parts of it that are meh. This here, though... Ayneh looks at her own creation and sees "meh," i look at it and i see "holy crow!" Sometimes it's easy to get too close to what you're making, and not be able to be satisfied with anything...Having another set of eyes can help with perspective. My wife hardly games at all, but i'll ask her to take a look at what i'm making from time to time. If she says wow...then i can usually feel happy with it. Other things that may help... Taking breaks, a couple of days, heck even a couple of weeks if you need it to recharge your batteries. Coming back to something after a bit can also change the way you look at it. F4F can get that last bit of polish on a level, too. i know you said that you don't like creating with other players...but taking their advice is surely within range. Like i said before about being too close to your stage...sometimes there's a whole host of little things that you're not noticing (both good and bad) because you've been working so hard on it. F4F made a huge difference on my stage, and i like it much better now than when it was first published. The best advice, though, as others have said is to not give up completely on things. If you keep plugging away at a comfortable pace, you will improve. Best of luck! Good Day and Great Creating!

2011-07-28 01:57:00 Author: waffleking23 Posts: 535

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It is only at the point you are in quite deep that the thing in its self has so much about it that you can create intricacy between the components that have slowly emerged to become part of the whole. But to get there in the first place you have to have faith in the simple thing, because within it lies the seed of your idea, see it through, explore what inspiration comes to mind within your engagement with your concept and do not be afraid to flow with where it wants to go. Perfectly worded and I hope people reading this thread will take the time to go through your comment and understand this paragraph. The creations I most love are the ones that managed to surprise me. "How in the world did this thing turn out to be so much greater than I originally had in mind?!". That is because you need to nurture your ideas, allow them to grow and branch into directions you had not thought of before. Not all ideas will go that way, but the few who do can border genius. Example: yesterday night I worked on a boss ability for my upcoming level. Because I messed up somewhere the emitted bullets were off target; before undoing everything, I decided to experiment a bit with it. I increased the duration and repetition of the emitter and created a whole new dynamic to the boss fight: instead of aiming bullets directly at you it now barfs up an almost uninterrupted stream of projectiles that create a path that you are forced to move through while the boss moves around. Combined with the other abilities that were already in place, and different bullet emitting patterns, I have now something that is far more exciting to play than my original idea. Realizing that it has fallen into place and is interconnected without a too rigid plan ahead, that is the joy I get out of creating.

2011-07-28 12:04:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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My biggest weakness in creating a level is patience. I originally visualize the level in my head & presume it won't take too long to build and won't require much effort. Most of the time, that isn't true. I've recently overcome this when I was trying to build a VERY logically & mechanically-complex object by first creating a far simpler version of it, then copied the essential logic & mechanisms, set them to not be able to interrupt each other, then I came up with exactly what I have envisioned. Even though it was mainly built on repetition, its components needed to be perfectly exact in order to work, & I'm actually surprised I even got it to work at all. That was the hardest part of building my level, & now that it's completed I can continue finishing the rest of my level. For me, I would say finishing the hardest parts first makes building levels far easier, especially since you have a sense of accomplishment before you have even published the level & are therefore motivated to complete it. However, I still can't come up with good visuals, but I can compensate by coming up with very useful & interesting new ideas (or improved/perfected ones) such as my fully-functional hover system or new logic components. But, no matter how much I compensate, I still eventually require the help of my skilled friends in my weaker areas of creating, so it's always helpful to have a variety of experts in your friends list (especially visual geniuses!).

2011-07-29 07:04:00 Author: Shuriken_Star Posts: 114

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I still eventually require the help of my skilled friends in my weaker areas of creating, so it's always helpful to have a variety of experts in your friends list (especially visual geniuses!). Yeah. Just a few days ago I made a biped walking motion using loads of selectors, AND gates, OR gates and tens of batteries to control each wobblebolt at each part of the walking sequence and it took AGES to wire up - then my friend comes along slaps down a sequencer and does the same thing with no more than five 5 batteries in a few seconds.

2011-07-30 03:31:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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