Archive: 17 posts

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I've overhauled this post with images! http://i.imgur.com/Rujb5.png And a simple example of this in use http://i.imgur.com/yfWkv.png You'll have to correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not even sure something as simple as that is even possible in LBP right now, and if it is then you probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to get there. Simply put, variables are a backbone of real-world programming and it shocked me slightly that LBP didn't include them in this form. I think it could make logic a hell of a lot more flexible and a lot more easy to use.

2011-06-21 22:27:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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Toggle, Timer, Counterand aspecially Selector, all of those are substracts of variables, they have state that you can manipulate as you want, specially with selectors. Variables are not very suitable with wired system, it would be hard to keep it simple, even analog signal (which actually is number system in wires) is being ignored to be documented by MM, probably due it's complexivity. Check out my tutorials, i made few about selectors nad timers: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShadowriverUB For more detailed info on analog signal visit rtm223 blog in LBPC: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/blog.php?4150 It's very useful if you want to play with timers or precice control of control dimming and speed and things liek that. Visit also LBPWiki ;] You can also play with binery math if you want, but thats even more advance stuff, LBP logic is based on binery same as real life logic systems... so calculator need to work in it right? you can try my BCD calculator tutorial

2011-06-22 20:56:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Had a big overhaul on the first post! Go read, it's all shiny o-o

2011-06-22 23:54:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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So we gonna have 2 analog signals?

2011-06-23 17:08:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Most of that can already be done without all that much rigamarole Division and some multiplication is tricky and can be imprecise, but other than that all those things can be accomplished with only a few pieces of logic That said I certainly wouldn't complain if these features were a little more directly accessible

2011-06-23 18:28:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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looks like it would be a neat feature to use in health bars... but what happens if you use a variable modifier, and end up with a negative output?

2011-06-23 18:36:00 Author: LBNinja Posts: 204

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looks like it would be a neat feature to use in health bars... but what happens if you use a variable modifier, and end up with a negative output? Then you'd have a negative value I suppose Don't think that'd be too much of a problem. If we start talking piston lengths then Mm could probably treat the negative value as a positive one ~ negative values could be quite useful for other things though. And to the people saying this stuff can already by done... I totally expected to have some logic veterans come and kick my butt! But as an attempt to save face let me just say this; As a beginner in LBP logic I can't for the life of me imagine how a lot of things are done. I have no doubt that you've got it all figured out, you're more clever than I am, but for something so fundamental I don't feel we should be made to jump through hoops to get there. Do you know how long it takes to make a calculator with actual programming? 2 minutes tops! Sure you can go back to basics and make it out of 0's and 1's and such but we simply have a better way of doing things now, we're not banging rocks together here! I'm gonna be busy learning more and more LBP logic over the next few weeks so maybe I'll be pleasantly suprised by the existing tools, but right now i'm thinking this would be a huge improvement. And there's quite a few things I'm not even sure would be possible without this.

2011-06-23 19:25:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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I won't disagree that you're suggesting some basic functions that it'd be nice to have wrapped up in a few concise logic gadgets. That said, you'd be surprised at how easy most of this stuff actually is once you understand some of the subtle nuances in a few of the game's mechanics. I'm no logic whiz by any means, but rtm's logic blog does a terrific job of explaining everything in very simple terms so even a doofus like me can grasp it. http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/blog.php?4150-Logic-Blog Read all of the "analog logic" entries in order. It should be pretty illuminating!

2011-06-23 20:21:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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I won't disagree that you're suggesting some basic functions that it'd be nice to have wrapped up in a few concise logic gadgets. That said, you'd be surprised at how easy most of this stuff actually is once you understand some of the subtle nuances in a few of the game's mechanics. I'm no logic whiz by any means, but rtm's logic blog does a terrific job of explaining everything in very simple terms so even a doofus like me can grasp it. http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/blog.php?4150-Logic-Blog Read all of the "analog logic" entries in order. It should be pretty illuminating! Ah yeah Shadowriver linked me to rtm's blog and I forgot to check it out, he linked to his youtube account first and I ended up getting lost and confused, thanks for reminding me I'll have to return some thoughts after I've read this, from rtm's little intro of the topic I'm expecting to be pleasantly suprised! Edito: Hmm, this whole analogue signal business is very interesting but I'm having trouble following rtm's blog. He does a great job of explaining but without practical examples my attention span plummets, like he talks about all this sorting and addition and stuff but I have no idea where I'd use any of this so most of it's just going over my head ~ My suggestion would make everything I've read so far a cakewalk >:3

2011-06-23 20:39:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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Try and stick with it, it does eventually get into practical applications once he starts talking about converting digital signals to analog and vice-versa

2011-06-23 22:49:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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Well analog signal is not fully want you want, it only allows from -100% thru 0% to 100% but allows to do some cool stuff yea piston is missing positional input action, it would be cool if they implement it, but on other hand material sticked to pistons could act crazy with fast movement from 0% to 100%. Thru you can make postional piston with tag and tag sensor in simialr way as analog signal smoother with timer. Negative value could be ignored same as sequencer do it on postional

2011-06-23 23:00:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Try and stick with it, it does eventually get into practical applications once he starts talking about converting digital signals to analog and vice-versa Ah I think I've found the problem! ~ I tried making the waveform generator from the very first tutorial and couldn't get it to work so I assumed it was a lot more complicated. I don't think rtm explained how it worked very well. It wasn't until having a play around that I got it working, it seems pretty simple now

2011-06-23 23:29:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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Well analog signal is not fully want you want, it only allows from -100% thru 0% to 100% but allows to do some cool stuff yea piston is missing positional input action, it would be cool if they implement it, but on other hand material sticked to pistons could act crazy with fast movement from 0% to 100%. Thru you can make postional piston with tag and tag sensor in simialr way as analog signal smoother with timer. Negative value could be ignored same as sequencer do it on postional They could always just have the piston move to the set position at the piston's set speed. No reason it'd have to be instantaneous like the sequencer.

2011-06-24 13:15:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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They could always just have the piston move to the set position at the piston's set speed. No reason it'd have to be instantaneous like the sequencer. That's what I had in mind, the same with a positional mover as well. Though if instant movement were to be possible it probably wouldn't be much different than emitting something at a new location. Edit: Actually now I think about it instant movement is already in the game ~ when you give a piston a flipper direction it pretty much moves to it's position instantly. Or it moves extremely fast atleast (think it moves faster in lbp2 than it did in lbp1)

2011-06-24 14:32:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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I think this is a brilliant idea. It reminds me of a logic mod in Garry's Mod back in the day, so much was opened up n what you could do when arithmetic chips made their appearance. I understand it is technically possible to make addition/subtraction devices and many of us logic buffs have made custom variable chips for our use in creation, but the idea of having an officially designed 'set' of these would seriously save the headache of those less LBP logic savy. Not to mention it takes so long to figure out/learn how to make them in the first place, and then you have to rely on other custom made things like readouts and comparitors e.t.c. to make sense of how the signal flow is acting in the system you're making. Then there is the problem of inaccuracy with the floating point at smaller numbers and the inaccuracy of certain components we use to propogate/manipulate signal strengths. In other words its a 'quazi-arithmetic' issue. We've developed a way round the current game limitations. The stuff that has been made/discovered thus far works, but very clunkily at best. Having official arithmetic/variable chips and readouts, packed down very neatly into low level 'works as is' components (like the logic components already in game) will save allot of time, headaches and thermo in my opinion. I'm all for it, I'de love to be able to plug numbers into a component and have other components able to calculate conditionalities that instruct other components to do things, in a much more consice manner than the current paradigm of using the quite flakey floating point analogue signal flow as a 'jim'l-fix'it' approach to arithmetic in LBP. meh.

2011-06-30 16:19:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Well i would not expect something like this as DLC, but who knows

2011-07-01 04:09:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I think this is a brilliant idea. It reminds me of a logic mod in Garry's Mod back in the day, so much was opened up n what you could do when arithmetic chips made their appearance. I understand it is technically possible to make addition/subtraction devices and many of us logic buffs have made custom variable chips for our use in creation, but the idea of having an officially designed 'set' of these would seriously save the headache of those less LBP logic savy. Not to mention it takes so long to figure out/learn how to make them in the first place, and then you have to rely on other custom made things like readouts and comparitors e.t.c. to make sense of how the signal flow is acting in the system you're making. Then there is the problem of inaccuracy with the floating point at smaller numbers and the inaccuracy of certain components we use to propogate/manipulate signal strengths. In other words its a 'quazi-arithmetic' issue. We've developed a way round the current game limitations. The stuff that has been made/discovered thus far works, but very clunkily at best. Having official arithmetic/variable chips and readouts, packed down very neatly into low level 'works as is' components (like the logic components already in game) will save allot of time, headaches and thermo in my opinion. I'm all for it, I'de love to be able to plug numbers into a component and have other components able to calculate conditionalities that instruct other components to do things, in a much more consice manner than the current paradigm of using the quite flakey floating point analogue signal flow as a 'jim'l-fix'it' approach to arithmetic in LBP. meh. I agree entirely. I just thought the OP might like to know that this stuff CAN sort of be done already, and after the initial mental investment it's actually not THAT hard to screw around with.

2011-07-01 19:50:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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