Archive: 26 posts

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I've seen a few threads while searching and it seems some people are not aware that the voice recording is dumbed down on purpose. The most important factor is that probably MM doesn't want to deal with copyright issues, and wants any potential copyrighted songs / material to be reproduced within that fair-use level. Since high quality sound material would require active screening, I think MM can hire a person or two to review high quality sound material for any obvious copyright infringement. The user would still be responsible for the materials he / she provides, so this screening would not be a guarantee for any future copyright related take-down. So this extra work could be offset by putting a price to the service, e.g. 5 mins of high quality voice would cost 5 usd. We can upload our own recorded sound pack for MM to review, and we can start using them in the levels when the screening is done. Even 20-30 seconds of high quality voice would add quite a lot to many levels. Simple short but high quality phrases within a level sound really awesome. And MM can make some money during the process!

2011-06-14 10:44:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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the way I see it, it isnt Mm trying to dumb it down, but rather the quality limitations of the headset and ps eye. They are not by any means state of the art devices, you must agree.

2011-06-14 13:41:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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Dumbing it down due to copyright...? Quite unlikely, considering copyright applies no matter thw quality of the copy, so I don't really see as this being the case for that, most likely people's mics just aren't good enough, as I've heard some very good/ high quality recordings from some people and some really really bad ones from others. You gotta remember that quality, most of the times depends on the hardware.

2011-06-14 13:53:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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the way I see it, it isnt Mm trying to dumb it down, but rather the quality limitations of the headset and ps eye. They are not by any means state of the art devices, you must agree. I agree about the headset sound quality, but I don't agree about the Ps Eye sound quality. Have you recorded audio with it? You can do so using the standard audio / video capture tool. It has almost a pristine sound quality, and according to Sony, it supports 4 channel audio input:16 bits/channel, 48kHz, SNR 90db, which makes it a very capable microphone. LBP however, captures sounds a lower khz and/or bits, and it does this on purpose. @silverleon: Yes, no matter the quality of audio, there's the copyright issue, but with the current quality that LBP provides, no sane music company would go after users, as it is pretty much a junk quality. However, things would be different with 16bits, 48khz recordings. Not that it would create a dent in music company profits, but you know those companies, it would just be a head ache for everyone, including MM. Hence the need for full moderation for high quality recordings, if they ever let us do that. Anyway, I seriously suggest you try capturing audio/video with your psEye's, you'll be surprised about its high quality sound recordings.

2011-06-14 14:37:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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PS3 game can set only one mic codec at time and can't change it, so they can' upgrade qulity on the fly, they need to stay on codec that is responsible for communication and they can't update it due upload bandwidth limits that lot of people have

2011-06-14 14:47:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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@Shadowriver: Thanks for the insight. However, I'd be *extremely* surprised if there's absolutely no way to switch codecs just for recording, and disable online audio during that time. MM can possibly use a better codec for game sound recording, the raw input of PsEye is there, it is just not being used. They could even have a special crater on the moon with a virtual sound-insulated booth just for recording At worst, since my suggestions includes 1:1 moderation of submitted sound, so we could send them audio files we recorded elsewhere.

2011-06-14 15:10:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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Well no matter what the real problem is, I thin we can all agree that the current state of voice recording is not *ahem* good enough for LBP

2011-06-14 15:47:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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It's about bandwidth and server space, not copyright.

2011-06-14 16:03:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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@Shadowriver: Thanks for the insight. However, I'd be *extremely* surprised if there's absolutely no way to switch codecs just for recording, and disable online audio during that time. MM can possibly use a better codec for game sound recording, the raw input of PsEye is there, it is just not being used. They could even have a special crater on the moon with a virtual sound-insulated booth just for recording At worst, since my suggestions includes 1:1 moderation of submitted sound, so we could send them audio files we recorded elsewhere. You know the concept of manifest? it's a file describing the specific application, so platform know how to deal with application without running it, for example theres information on if game use Move of not, so Move warnings appears at begining, you can see that on Killzone 3, they are generated by firmware, not the game. I think codec type is part of manifest because it effects mic test in audio settings on XMB, even when game is not fully loaded, as it is part of manifest they most likely can't change when game is on and manifest is applied.

2011-06-14 16:30:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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It's about bandwidth and server space, not copyright. If it is about space and server space, they could allow shorter high quality voice. Even 10 seconds worth of high quality phrases could bring a nice change to levels. @shadowriver: I wouldn't like to believe the high quality sound recording is impossible just because a game is using an online voice codec. I hope PS3's gameOs isn't that inflexible. However, if this is impossible within the game, it could still be possible using external recordings, as I mentioned earlier. The suggestions stands with or without the technical possibility.

2011-06-14 20:44:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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Grah. I wish there was some way to import HQ audio samples via usb or something... It isn't even worth having VO if it is all gargley and hissy. I am sad now.

2011-06-14 21:11:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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If it is about space and server space, they could allow shorter high quality voice. Even 10 seconds worth of high quality phrases could bring a nice change to levels. @shadowriver: I wouldn't like to believe the high quality sound recording is impossible just because a game is using an online voice codec. I hope PS3's gameOs isn't that inflexible. However, if this is impossible within the game, it could still be possible using external recordings, as I mentioned earlier. The suggestions stands with or without the technical possibility. You would be surprised how "good quality" weights. I made a school video last year with a crappy camera footage. 5'30" and less than 30 Mb. This year, another video with a much better camera: 4'30" and more than 1Gb. Of course sounds weight less than videos, but they still weight, and nobody is willing to wait more than 10 minutes so all the hi-quality sound can be downloaded. And don't forget that it's a 10 second-phrase + a 10 second-phrase + a 10 second-phrase... If someone is going to use voice recording in a level, I doubt he could keep it around only 10 seconds of audio. (and quality swap would be worser D: ) Btw, has anyone tried to record voice with a microphone used in games like Rock Band and Singstar?

2011-06-14 21:22:00 Author: gdn001 Posts: 5891

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@gdn001: If you look at the video, you'll probably see that those are probably uncompressed PCM sounds, that's what my FinePix HS10 is recording. There will of course be a limit to what we record, What I meant by 10 seconds is, you could put a lot of "Go go go!"s, "Man down!" "I'm hit!" phrases in that. You could put a lot of custom sound effects in a total of 10 seconds, being your own foley artist. And at good quality compression levels, 10 seconds cost 160kb in a 128kilobit/second compression, and that is being VERY generous for a mono sound! (Mp3's at 128kbit are for stereo) so we could get away with very high quality sounds at even lower kilobits / sec)

2011-06-14 21:38:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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@shadowriver: I wouldn't like to believe the high quality sound recording is impossible just because a game is using an online voice codec. I hope PS3's gameOs isn't that inflexible. However, if this is impossible within the game, it could still be possible using external recordings, as I mentioned earlier. The suggestions stands with or without the technical possibility. If oyu look at it audio input seems mostly managed by firmware, codec effects mic test so it seems that encodeing happens in firmware, i didnt seen any game that switched qulity of codec. about external, you mean external recording? Well even so qulity need to be little down since audio is stored in level and it can't be too big. You maybe been in beta? Raphiels jet level taken about 3MB and level suffured due long loading time

2011-06-14 23:26:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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@shadowriver: Yes, extrernal recordings that we record outside of the game could be used if it was technically impossible to record high quality sound inside the game. You are correct that we wouldn't want the level to be big, but high quality compression can be achieved for mono sounds at low kilobits like 96kbps, 10 seconds of high quality sounds at that bitrate would take about 120kilobytes, but it would bring nice quality sound without hissy sounds. Just having the option would be nice. And it would earn MM a small amount of money in return, there'd be many creators who would like to include high quality sounds to their creations, even if that it could be capped to 10/20 seconds for space reasons.

2011-06-15 07:12:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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Looks like the only way we are going to resolve this is to hack a pseye to take input directly from a HQ digital recording and see if it sounds low quality in-game. Idk how that would work, but I am sure someone here could wangle a dangle and make it work. If the HQ audio goes in the pseye, and goes thru to lbp HQ, but is received on the other end as a low quality sound, we know it is some crappy limitation like that. And if it comes into LBP HQ, then there is something going on between LBP and the pseye that I do not fully understand .

2011-06-15 13:47:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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The audio is encoded in-game. I have the PS3 blu-tooth with HQ recording and it remains compressed and of low quality. There is no workaround for this, it is designed to be low quality so that people with low-bandwidth connections can still enjoy a level with audio instead of having to download a 45MB level filled with HQ sounds. Couple that with server space for 4 million(+) levels and you have a good argument as to why this will never happen.

2011-06-15 14:10:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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All I want is for my beloved LBP's features to... WORK... is this too much to ask for?

2011-06-15 14:16:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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Yup this is a main reason why I'll never add voices in my levels I think MM should have just not put the option there at all if they needed to make it suck in order to save on space. **mew

2011-06-15 14:21:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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The audio is encoded in-game. I have the PS3 blu-tooth with HQ recording and it remains compressed and of low quality. There is no workaround for this, it is designed to be low quality so that people with low-bandwidth connections can still enjoy a level with audio instead of having to download a 45MB level filled with HQ sounds. Couple that with server space for 4 million(+) levels and you have a good argument as to why this will never happen. You are right in that server space would be at stake if they allowed *everyone* to use it, but my proposal adds the pay-for value, which should vastly reduce the people who use it, and would also offset any costs associated with extra bandwith, plus the fact that you could cap the HQ sound to say around 200-300KB which not be a problem for anyone, including the servers. (plus, since these are for paying customers to enhance their levels, there could be simpler 20-30KB versions of the sounds which would progressively load into their final HQ glory.) The emphasis being, paying customers would have this service, and the size could be capped per level to whatever MM sees fit, and having the option for it. And if we, creators, find the service worthy of paying for, with in-game ads driving us to make higher quality versions this can even make MM extra money.

2011-06-15 14:50:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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Still doesn't prevent Joe Smith in rural farmland on dial up who has to wait an hour to play your level... I would assume that MM chose the quality limitations so that all players can load up a level with audio quickly, even on a slow dial up connection. If this is true, what you propose would never happen, as it would mean noticeably longer load times and increase server bandwidth stress. And the suggestion for in-game ads is even worse than your original idea, in my opinion.

2011-06-15 15:25:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Forget I ever said ads, I meant reminders that you could have higher quality versions.

2011-06-15 17:53:00 Author: hesido Posts: 166

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Still doesn't prevent Joe Smith in rural farmland on dial up who has to wait an hour to play your level... I would assume that MM chose the quality limitations so that all players can load up a level with audio quickly, even on a slow dial up connection. If this is true, what you propose would never happen, as it would mean noticeably longer load times and increase server bandwidth stress. And the suggestion for in-game ads is even worse than your original idea, in my opinion. You wont be able to even play LBP on dial-up, maintain moving people on pod and level downloading would jam it ;p i bet there some higher qulity codec settings that can be handled with still reaming size similar size,lot of PS3 games have better qulity voice codecs set, for example MNR, but for MM this size might be fitting, we don't know who there servers are build, i assume that LBP protocal is fatter (logic sync etc) and game mostly run on P2P where upload limitation are very thin

2011-06-19 16:12:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Looks like the only way we are going to resolve this is to hack a pseye to take input directly from a HQ digital recording and see if it sounds low quality in-game. Idk how that would work, but I am sure someone here could wangle a dangle and make it work. If the HQ audio goes in the pseye, and goes thru to lbp HQ, but is received on the other end as a low quality sound, we know it is some crappy limitation like that. And if it comes into LBP HQ, then there is something going on between LBP and the pseye that I do not fully understand . I connected my ipod directly up to the PS3 using a USB headset controller and LBP let me record sound directly. Music still sounds low quality - what I personally think is that they have used some heavy audio compression tailored to voices. This means if there is a lot going on in your audio it will sound worse than if you've just got one frequency band like a single instrument.

2011-06-19 18:05:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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I don't really know if this is really possible, unless you have a good quality microphone which would probably make it at least a bit better. I think the only way you could have a proper, non-grainy sound would be with glass chambers and recording equipment and stuff, so Mm probably used that to make their awesomely amazing character voices.

2011-06-19 18:44:00 Author: Denim360 Posts: 482

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What's with all this talk about sound quality? When I record it's just fine. And I have a pretty crappy headset to.

2011-06-19 21:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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