Archive: 123 posts

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So, after much hard work I have finally published my first lbp2 level. I did so yesterday in the early evening. I came back this morning and saw that the only person who had played it was a good friend of mine. When I published on lbp1 I always had at least 8 plays (from random ppl) in the first 12 hours. Is lbp2 set up differently in that respect? Are new levels no longer shown on any of the pages? (If I wasn't at work I would research this myself.) But, if that is the case, how do new creators - who lack hundreds of friends and fans - get their level played? I strongly think that there are a lot of undiscovered gems of levels and undiscovered creators that just aren't getting even a chance to show off their work. I understand the want to weed out the garbage levels of unartistic rubbbish, but in doing this, maybe MM has also supressed the creators who don't have a lot of popularity but at the same time, actually give a crap about what they produce. Your thoughts? Am I wrong about the distribution of exposure for all new levels, regardless of the popularity of creator?

2011-05-31 17:03:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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I feel your pain. A while ago, a tutorial level that took me about a day to make got loads of plays (it's still being played now), yet the platforming level that took me since the beginning of LBP2 has only garnered a measly 25 plays. I think it must be the type of level that you publish that affects the amount of plays it gets.

2011-05-31 17:45:00 Author: FlipMeister Posts: 631

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I too feel your pain, one of my "Noob" levels has over 1000 plays and I want to delete it but its "Customers" if you want to put it that way. I have another two "Noob level" nearly at 1000 too. However my best level only has 25 plays. It must be set up differently though. It needs to be reformed.

2011-05-31 18:14:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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It definitely needs to be reformed. I am not looking to be "lbp famous" or whatever they call it, but I think we all deserve equal exposure so the players can decide. Well, in publishing my first lbp2 level, and my best level to date, I have certainly learned a few lessons. 1) Building new levels in lbp2 is a complete waste of time because the system in which levels are discovered is corrupt. 2) MM ruined lbp by changing the way the community levels menu is set up. Upon investigating how a new level could be discovered, I found that the new level option is available on the very last option, "More" on the community level filter menu. When you select more, the option to filter by newest levels is not on the very top, nor is it in the middle. That's right, it is on the very END of all the other filter options. When I clicked it there were roughly 7 out of every 10 that had ZERO plays. The rest had 2 or 3 plays. Is this fair? No. I don't want to have to advertise my level on these forums to get someone to play it so I can get some decent criticism. That's not how it worked early in lbp1. How does MM think they can stay so popular while the continue to keep this set-up? It is cheating the people for what they paid for. For me, not only did I buy it as a game to play, but as a game to express my creativity on properly while getting feedback. No wonder my friend saw that just about an hour ago, only 674 people were playing lbp2. And I don't think they will fix this major problem, when all it would take it to move the filter option "newest levels" to the main menu next to, "MM Picks". It's barely noticeable where it is! And that's clear by looking at the plays of he levels there. Any smart website that allows artists to publish their works on (such as deviantart.com) has the newest creations on the main page, so everyone can get exposure. But MM has not fixed other glitches in the game so why would they fix this? Anyway, I am very disappointed. Lbp is no longer what I thought it to be. I will not make another level and I think I am leaving the game permanently. I am not the only one thinking this way either. Many of my friends agree with me and some have already left the game.

2011-06-01 02:22:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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I agree about the location of the New levels. It's terrible. However, I will say, everytime I've taken the time to go through them, I almost never find anything with playing. It's almost always junk. So, I doubt that MM will move it to the front tab. As for the amount if people playing LBP, yeah, it seems very low. Even levels on page one only get a few thousand plays unless they are in the top slot. Even after being MMPICKed for weeks, some levels are still barely scratching 20,000 plays. I think people aren't playing because multiplayer is atrocious. Load screens make the game unplayable. So, I'm not sure how they can fix the issue if somehow recognizing more creators, but it won't matter if they don't fix the Player issues soon.

2011-06-01 02:58:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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If only ere was some sort of unofficial or even official system in place where experienced LBP judges would go through the new levels sections and play each new level and if it was not garbage, they would move it to tab where it can get exposure. Of course this probably wouldn't happen, but if each new level gets a play by one experienced person who could make sure it got exposure if it were good, then this problem could be resolved. I wouldn't say that the current system is corrupt, it's just impractical and fosters the notion that the way to get a lot of plays is through advertising it as best as possible and asking people to play it :/

2011-06-01 04:41:00 Author: Unknown User

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But who will play this thousands of levels? How this could be organized? In my opinion it's impossible to get everyone noticed. The problem is the main part of the community are players who don't regullary play LBP, and they are not interested in what happens with the community. They will play the MM-Picks and this Bomb/shark/earthquake-survivals to have a little fun. And I also think newest levels on the main page wouldn't change much. Because there was no other situation in LBP1, where there was a button on the main page. Instead of complaining make great levels, use F4F to get feedback and more plays, maybe ask somebody who is famous to play your level and leave a review. Perhaps that could help. Oh, and please don't leave the game it's not about getting noticed, it's about fun and creativity and slapping other sackpersons!

2011-06-01 12:51:00 Author: frexy18 Posts: 62

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MM didn't design LBP to be a tool for creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate so much as a tool to make you feel as if you are creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate, which in fact only your close friends and family will appreciate (or get so much as a cheap chuckle out of). If you have poured your heart and soul and long hours into creating something original which you hope the wider community will enjoy, you're using LBP the wrong way. Of course there is a relatively tiny number of users who are an exception to this, but most who go this route are bound to be disappointed. The correct way to use LBP is this: 1. Think up a simple idea for a bomb survival, or something with explosions and deaths. 2. Muck around in create mode for no longer than an hour putting your grand idea into action. Don't spend longer than a lunch break at the very most. 3. Click the "Publish" button NOW. MM wants you to. Why do you think they made this button so big? 4. Your level of course will probably not get played because most people just play whatever is on the front page of Cool Levels or MM Picks, and you should now proceed to do the same.

2011-06-01 16:44:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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As i said many times before it's impossible to make 100% fair system where every good creator is rewarded from very begining, you can't find any creation community or industry that work this way, there always someone who is underated or overrated, there always be stars that every one likes and hidden gems that you need to dig, this is how communities involing creations always worked. MM didn't design LBP to be a tool for creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate so much as a tool to make you feel as if you are creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate, which in fact only your close friends and family will appreciate (or get so much as a cheap chuckle out of). If you have poured your heart and soul and long hours into creating something original which you hope the wider community will enjoy, you're using LBP the wrong way. Of course there is a relatively tiny number of users who are an exception to this, but most who go this route are bound to be disappointed. Then what is cool pages and mmpicks is for? to pick the best creations and show it for others. Ofcorse this will end up as popuaraty contest since machines can't jurge your creations, as results we got trends things that are more popular and not. As for LBP as a creation tool that makes you feel cool whatever you create, thats also wrong LBP creation maybe looks simple but with simple things you can't compite with other creators that use a lot complex things that system allows. The correct way to use LBP is this: 1. Think up a simple idea for a bomb survival, or something with explosions and deaths. 2. Muck around in create mode for no longer than an hour putting your grand idea into action. Don't spend longer than a lunch break at the very most. 3. Click the "Publish" button NOW. MM wants you to. Why do you think they made this button so big? 4. Your level of course will probably not get played because most people just play whatever is on the front page of Cool Levels or MM Picks, and you should now proceed to do the same. Base of creation platforms freedom, without freedom there no creativity, you can't enforce anybody to not making bomb survivals if they want to (game not even promote to do so, it's trend made by community), you can't enforce people to work on there levels for ages. You could create small thing in one hour that is very creative and cool, same as simple drawing can be artisticly cool, do you think game should stop allowing to do so? People should be allowed to do whatever they want (ofcorse in moral limits) or else you wont squesh creativity from them.

2011-06-01 17:27:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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To answer the threads question, Two things you need right off the bat. 1.) one snappy custom badge 2.) a clever/descriptive name If I notice a clean custom badge I will stop scrolling, read the name & check it's stats. If the stats are good I'll play it. Ive noticed that the first 30-50 people that play my newley published level tend to rate them pretty generously as opposed to if it takes a top spot. If your level does well in those first 30-50 plays it will rise up the cool pages and be noticed. Pro tip: don't publish your level at night unless it's on a Thursday or a Friday.

2011-06-01 17:37:00 Author: CENTURION24 Posts: 266

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Pro tip: don't publish your level at night unless it's on a Thursday or a Friday. That depends on time zone too, i published level even on 1AM CET and it end up on 1st page because US player are still on peak. My ProTip is to invite friends and play level with them on first hours

2011-06-01 18:58:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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But who will play this thousands of levels? How this could be organized? Instead of complaining make great levels, use F4F to get feedback and more plays, maybe ask somebody who is famous to play your level and leave a review. Perhaps that could help. Oh, and please don't leave the game it's not about getting noticed, it's about fun and creativity and slapping other sackpersons! Ok, I'm not sure of what you are trying to say here. If you are suggesting I use Favorite for Favorite (like heart 4 heart), then no. That is a cheap tactic that ppl have exploited in the past, making garbage levels popular. I would not use that to get a few plays. Also, I am not interested in contacting someone "famous" just because I want something from them. My point is, we shouldn't have to use these sloppy tactics to get our levels noticed. All we should need is a great title, crisp custom made sticker badge, and well-thought description, as Centurion said. And I have all of these, yet it didn't matter. But these things should be the only thing that matters in getting a level to be played. Finally, I understand that the game is not about getting noticed... for you, but it might be for other people. The simple truth is, the game is what it is to different people. For me, I don't want to be "noticed" as in "popular", I just want my levels to have plays. Id be happy with 10. If no one plays, what is the point of using it to express creativity? I like to make things for myself but also for others. But if the others aren't there, then I would feel more gratified through other means of creative expression. Anyway, I do appreciate your effort in giving me examples of how to get my levels played, although, they are just not for me. MM didn't design LBP to be a tool for creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate so much as a tool to make you feel as if you are creating grand and wonderful things that everyone will appreciate, which in fact only your close friends and family will appreciate (or get so much as a cheap chuckle out of). If you have poured your heart and soul and long hours into creating something original which you hope the wider community will enjoy, you're using LBP the wrong way. Of course there is a relatively tiny number of users who are an exception to this, but most who go this route are bound to be disappointed. The correct way to use LBP is this: 1. Think up a simple idea for a bomb survival, or something with explosions and deaths. 2. Muck around in create mode for no longer than an hour putting your grand idea into action. Don't spend longer than a lunch break at the very most. 3. Click the "Publish" button NOW. MM wants you to. Why do you think they made this button so big? 4. Your level of course will probably not get played because most people just play whatever is on the front page of Cool Levels or MM Picks, and you should now proceed to do the same. I'm with Shadowriver on this. In my opinion, MM did create LBP for designing grand and wonderful things. Just listen to any youtube video of the MM people talking about their system and what people have created because of it. Also, the MM picks... why else would they be there if it wasn't for the "grand and the wonderful"? I am not wanting my levels to be apart of the MM picks (i.e. the grand and the wonderful). However, I think there are lots of unpopular people out there who have made something spectacular who deserve to be on the MM picks because of their talent. This is where I am not with Shadowriver. Because, being an MM pick shouldn't be about popularity, it should be about talent. The lbp tools foster talent, not popularity. Therefore, MM should jusdge levels for their talent. A properly designed machine could give every level, equal exposure. Also, about what you said in the last part of your message. I think I am understanding this properly. So, if I am (and many others as well) using lbp in the wrong way, then, based on what you said, LBP has no value for anyone who wants to create their own story. LBP has value for only the popular people and the people who like to only make costumes and publish copied garbage? That sounds very truthful, and I think much the same... which is why I'm thinking about leaving the game. It would be helpful if MM advertised the truth about lbp. I can see it now, on a commercial, "Play lbp solo and meet the fun characters who shape the lbp adventure in the astonishingly short, 10 hour main story. Then, as to not utterly waste your time, quickly create loads of exciting rubbish levels to publish! Or maybe even publish a lovely copied level! It's SO fun! Then join others online while constant loading screens make it nearly impossible to play our MM Picks! After that, take your Mr. McSackpants to your pod and design yourself some spiffy costume to show off to your other rubbish-level-making friends. Don't forget to check the PSN store every month or so to give us EVEN more money for overpriced downloadable content!" Yes. ...Ok maybe I got a little angry there, but really, it's pretty true. To answer the threads question, Two things you need right off the bat. 1.) one snappy custom badge 2.) a clever/descriptive name If I notice a clean custom badge I will stop scrolling, read the name & check it's stats. If the stats are good I'll play it. Ive noticed that the first 30-50 people that play my newley published level tend to rate them pretty generously as opposed to if it takes a top spot. If your level does well in those first 30-50 plays it will rise up the cool pages and be noticed. Pro tip: don't publish your level at night unless it's on a Thursday or a Friday. As I said before, I have a good title, crisp sticker badge that's a picture of a something I created for the level, and the description is very, well, descriptive. Still? Nothing. 2 plays. Both friends I've known for forever. Its not a matter of getting 30 to 50 ppl to play, really its a matter of getting any. Let's say, 5. Then, if I'm lucky 1 person will comment. Thanks for the tips though. One that I wasn't aware of was publishing at night. I am curious as to why, since ppl from all over the world are always playing. That depends on time zone too, i published level even on 1AM CET and it end up on 1st page because US player are still on peak. My ProTip is to invite friends and play level with them on first hours Thanks for your tip. A lot of my friends don't play lbp anymore or they play less. *sigh* But I think if I had published earlier in the day, I could have found some friends to play it.

2011-06-01 19:19:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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The game has nearly died now after being spoiled for years by selfish people like Centurion24 and mostly by LBPcentral. I'll explain: Centurion and a buddy of his republished the hell out of their dragon levels. The reason why you (centurion) call yourself a pro is because you probably republished and advertised all of your levels endlessly and therefore got so many plays that you think you can act like you're better then creaters with hardly any plays who have a slim basis for calling themselves pro's. The arrogance is disgusting and the most hearted creator of lbp shouldn't have such an unpleasantly competitive and greedy attitude if you ask me. So u have some nerve centurion, to act as the nice guy with advise, while in reality you know that your behavior has stolen tons of plays from decent creators' levels. How is it possible to enjoy this game when selfish people and LBPcentral tell the player which levels are good, which creaters are good and subsequently that the others are bad? The player should be trusted to be able to make that choice themselves, as it was in the beginning, but republishers like centurion and spotlighters in LBPC think differently and have succeeded to force their will upon the community. It's not far fetched to think this was possible because the site owners here have such close ties to MM and favour the creaters who clique on their website by spotlighting them. Yeah LBP used to be a fun game, now it has nearly died and I point the finger at LBPC and all their selfproclaimed pros. As I heard, a lot of these "celebs" probably helped design the game as it is now, with the MM picks on the most prominent spot and therefore being overflown with LBPC celebs' levels. Yeah u keep thinking that you got in the spotlight cause your levels are so good, but where does that leave the levels that are better and have hardly had any plays? The only possible answer: You cheated the system at the cost of honest people. Do I have to make this more clear?!!!! cause u just tried to seem nice by sharing some worthless piece of information from your clique that is hard at work to cheat the system again. I guess it has taken some monitoring and republishing to calculate the 30 to 50 clique-plays number huh and I wouldn't be surprised if you and the other LBPC celebs do everything in their power to reach that magic number when they publish a level if your inside knowledge hasnt reached a more advanced level yet. This may sound like a huge assumption of mine but you did it before. I gave up on hoping that the game will ever recover since it would be easy for MM to decrease the influence of the dishonest people. Yet they havent even repaired the game from the laughable state it has been in since the release a half year ago. My guess is that MM jumped ship. They know most people have left cause they dont like the arrogant atmosphere created by LBPC and MM estimated that selling a couple of hundred more virtual clothes to the few people who are waiting for some entertainment to come back will not quench their greed. Most importantly: The people, like Creekey, "who don't want to have to advertise their level on these forums to get someone to play it so it can get some decent criticism" are sick and tired of your attitude and the attitude of all the other cheaters in LBPCentral who have ruined this game. So they are leaving. I have an unfounded hope that things will change, that MM will release an update that prevents you and the LBPC celebs from stealing comments but it's more likely that this message gets modded and I'll leave the game when Sony releases something that I can play with my lbp friends. If u have the chance to read this maybe u care to answer what lead you to do this. Why the greed? Why the need for 14.000 hearts? Why ruining the game in such an extreme way? Do you want a job at MM so you have more money? Do you like to spoil games? or did you think that people who dont spam their levels dont deserve plays and comments? I dont know what drives you cause I allways removed the cheaters from my list (yeah every "celeb" to) End of story

2011-06-01 20:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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The game has nearly died now after being spoiled for years by selfish people like Centurion24 and mostly by LBPcentral. I'll explain: Centurion and a buddy of his republished the hell out of their dragon levels. The reason why you (centurion) call yourself a pro is because you probably republished and advertised all of your levels endlessly and therefore got so many plays that you think you can act like you're better then creaters with hardly any plays who have a slim basis for calling themselves pro's. The arrogance is disgusting and the most hearted creator of lbp shouldn't have such an unpleasantly competitive and greedy attitude if you ask me. So u have some nerve centurion, to act as the nice guy with advise, while in reality you know that your behavior has stolen tons of plays from decent creators' levels. How is it possible to enjoy this game when selfish people and LBPcentral tell the player which levels are good, which creaters are good and subsequently that the others are bad? The player should be trusted to be able to make that choice themselves, as it was in the beginning, but republishers like centurion and spotlighters in LBPC think differently and have succeeded to force their will upon the community. It's not far fetched to think this was possible because the site owners here have such close ties to MM and favour the creaters who clique on their website by spotlighting them. Yeah LBP used to be a fun game, now it has nearly died and I point the finger at LBPC and all their selfproclaimed pros. As I heard, a lot of these "celebs" probably helped design the game as it is now, with the MM picks on the most prominent spot and therefore being overflown with LBPC celebs' levels. Yeah u keep thinking that you got in the spotlight cause your levels are so good, but where does that leave the levels that are better and have hardly had any plays? The only possible answer: You cheated the system at the cost of honest people. Do I have to make this more clear?!!!! cause u just tried to seem nice by sharing some worthless piece of information from your clique that is hard at work to cheat the system again. I guess it has taken some monitoring and republishing to calculate the 30 to 50 clique-plays number huh and I wouldn't be surprised if you and the other LBPC celebs do everything in their power to reach that magic number when they publish a level if your inside knowledge hasnt reached a more advanced level yet. This may sound like a huge assumption of mine but you did it before. I gave up on hoping that the game will ever recover since it would be easy for MM to decrease the influence of the dishonest people. Yet they havent even repaired the game from the laughable state it has been in since the release a half year ago. My guess is that MM jumped ship. They know most people have left cause they dont like the arrogant atmosphere created by LBPC and MM estimated that selling a couple of hundred more virtual clothes to the few people who are waiting for some entertainment to come back will not quench their greed. Most importantly: The people, like Creekey, "who don't want to have to advertise their level on these forums to get someone to play it so it can get some decent criticism" are sick and tired of your attitude and the attitude of all the other cheaters in LBPCentral who have ruined this game. So they are leaving. I have an unfounded hope that things will change, that MM will release an update that prevents you and the LBPC celebs from stealing comments but it's more likely that this message gets modded and I'll leave the game when Sony releases something that I can play with my lbp friends. If u have the chance to read this maybe u care to answer what lead you to do this. Why the greed? Why the need for 14.000 hearts? Why ruining the game in such an extreme way? Do you want a job at MM so you have more money? Do you like to spoil games? or did you think that people who dont spam their levels dont deserve plays and comments? I dont know what drives you cause I allways removed the cheaters from my list (yeah every "celeb" to) End of story You have a good point. It goes back to what I said before: lbp is corrupt. Just like many governments, it is run by greed. I have pretty much followed all the "pro tips" but it had no effect whatsoever. The way the players are treated by the way their new levels are literally pushed out of the way, is absolutely sickening. In such an inconspicuous place, it doesn't matter if the creator has a great title, great level badge, and well-written level description. What matters to get your level played is popularity, as I suspected. Thanks for responding. You indeed might get banned Cask, but I hope before that happens, a lot of people can read your post. The people at LBPC don't want the truth of their website coming out, just like they don't want to really reveal the true method used in which to get plays on your levels. Lbp isn't a game anymore, it is a club. But to reveal it as such would mean lesser sales. If I happened to get banned or whatever, so be it. It will further prove my point.

2011-06-01 22:06:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Hmmm i will have to keep these tips in mind. While its unlikely a new /unknown creator such as myself will get MM picked since its my first level, i think my upcoming game is worthy of it. My plan was just all in advertising, show MM your serious ( get them on twitter or wherever) convince them to look at your level and then you have a chance at least. If it at least makes the cool pages, i think you will get noticed...maybe not super-popular but more than most can say. Short Answer: Advertise.

2011-06-01 23:03:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Ok, I'm not sure of what you are trying to say here. If you are suggesting I use Favorite for Favorite (like heart 4 heart), then no. That is a cheap tactic that ppl have exploited in the past, making garbage levels popular. I would not use that to get a few plays. F4F system stands for Feedback for Feedback which is a system here at LBPC and part of the Level Showcase. It is simply a cool way for people to help each other to give each other constructive feedback and help them improve their levels. It is there to help level the playing field a bit especially if you are proactive and play other F4F levels listed in the LBPC Level Showcase and leave constructive feedback, you can then ask them to return the favor of some feedback on one of your levels. They are not asking for hearts.. they are asking for feedback. Simple as that.. and actually helps get your levels noticed on LBPC. The more feedback you get, the more you learn to improve as a creator. At least that is how I got much better as a creator. I felt I was pretty good, but after I joined here I was blown away by some of what I saw. I learned to really pay attention to detail till it hurts my head. What I create now I am happy with regardless if I get a spotlight or an Mm pick. I know what level I am capable of. I do it for me and if I don't feel it fun, I would never finish nor publish. I create for fun and if a few people like what I do. cool! If not, I still had fun. .. maybe you put me in to that evil "popular creator" group since I have over 500. Nah.. I don't think so at all. Far far from it actually... I didn't scam anyone to achieve it, I think quite a few just found some of my levels really fun and gave me a heart. ..at least that is why I give out creator hearts. I use it to point out to others to "check this stuff out!" as well as insuring I know when they publish a new level so I can play it. I don't think the game has died at all.. I mean, I like to play golf and don't need anyone watching me to enjoy it. Does having more hearts or plays make the game more special? I really don't think so. It may have died a bit for you and therefore maybe you need a break. One might argue that some creators have more than their share of love and attention, but it isn't really their fault. It might just be they really are good at what they do. The better they got, the more pass their name around, just like a great new restaurant in town. Do you really want to boycott the place and make it go away? I'd rather it stay open so I can go there and have a great meal every once in awhile. ..or at least see what they have been up to when considering creators. All the best!

2011-06-02 01:13:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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jww, ur the advocate of the devil and u know it. U allways suck up to lbpc. point proven by that u totally dont get the point. The topic starter isnt looking for ways to scam more comments her way. The topic is about how this game is ruined in a way that u dont get any comments or plays anymore because they get stolen. So go promote ur f4f system somewhere else cause in here, we dont buy it

2011-06-02 01:48:00 Author: Unknown User

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From what I've learned, how to make a popular level. -Appealing name -Good thumbnail -Fun sounding concept

2011-06-02 01:48:00 Author: lemurboy12 Posts: 842

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jww, ur the advocate of the devil and u know it. U allways suck up to lbpc. point proven by that u totally dont get the point. The topic starter isnt looking for ways to scam more comments her way. The topic is about how this game is ruined in a way that u dont get any comments or plays anymore because they get stolen. So go promote ur f4f system somewhere else cause in here, we dont buy it Ya know... I don't care what you get or not. You made a mistake on what F4F was here at LBPC and I tried to help out by showing you what a cool system it can be if you choose to use it. If you choose to disregard it, fine my me. ...and regardless what your opinion is of me, I never suck up to anyone. You are simply upset and about a game. Because of that, you misdirect your anger at me. I'm really not the enemy here. Seems pretty silly to me, but if you wish to waste your energy on being upset about a toy, then by all means go for it. I'll be watching and munching popcorn. lol There's not much on tv tonight.

2011-06-02 02:06:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Everyone tries to make this so hard. I've found that the easiest way to get your levels noticed is to lift your shirt up. duh!

2011-06-02 02:12:00 Author: TheCountessZ Posts: 537

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Two things you need right off the bat. 1.) one snappy custom badge 2.) a clever/descriptive name I couldn't agree with this more. I think the really unique names for levels, and the levels with really good icons, will draw in plays with that alone. For example, I never played Bender's space garden levels because the icon was honestly pretty weak imo. But when I see something like this (http://lbp.me/v/0rdeb1) I instantly want to see what it's about. Really I think icon's weigh super heavily on how your level will get its early plays. Unless of course your Steve_big_guns and you don't even need a cool icon because people will play it anyway. So make cool looking icons! Then we'll all be happy

2011-06-02 02:15:00 Author: Jayhawk_er Posts: 403

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jww, ur the advocate of the devil and u know it. U allways suck up to lbpc. point proven by that u totally dont get the point. The topic starter isnt looking for ways to scam more comments her way. The topic is about how this game is ruined in a way that u dont get any comments or plays anymore because they get stolen. So go promote ur f4f system somewhere else cause in here, we dont buy it LOL... it appears now we can conclude here this is starting to become (somehow...) a hate on LBPC and LBP thread for some. Guys guys guys... If you play this game for fame, ya don't get teh point of it all! LBP was made a game! And games are meant to be fun! If your just looking for fame and no fun, go get a job in the real world doing boring stuff; at least then you'll be making money. I'd say LBP isn't ruined. It's the attitudes of the Players, Creators, and Sharers that HAVE. No offence to anyone. *Also, what's wrong with F4F? It has nothing to do with H4H. Comparing it with that is like comparing pie with mud pie.*

2011-06-02 02:21:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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Yeah u keep thinking that you got in the spotlight cause your levels are so good, but where does that leave the levels that are better and have hardly had any plays? The only possible answer: You cheated the system at the cost of honest people. Do I have to make this more clear?!!!! I think it needs to be made more clear to me, on two counts. 1. Where are these AMAZING unplayed levels? I'm always looking for good levels. If there are so many of them, why don't you provide some examples? Hell, you could even made a recommendation thread on LBPC to get that person some of that unfair exposure you keep talking about. Then it wouldn't quite be so unfair, and you wouldn't have anything to whine about. 2. I'm confused about what you are meaning by spotlighted levels. If you mean here at LBPC, I'll tell you that there is literally no evidence of favoring certain creators because of his or her name. There are just too many unknown creators who find themselves in the spotlight. That said, the most talented creators tend to consistently release quality work, so it really wouldn't be unexpected to see several people making recurring appearances. It's clear to me that this is all deflection since you guys are upset about not getting yours. Republishing doesn't work in LBP2. There are no ratings to exploit. How do you get plays? You advertise. Network. Spread the word on facebook, twitter, LBPC, and other fansites. If you seriously think that your levels stack up to the rest, put some dang effort into it. That's what everyone else has to do as well. Just so you know, though, condemning the system and blaming everyone else is not a great way to market yourself and your creations. Edit: Cask - Never mind. I had forgotten that you have an axe to grind here at LBPC since we banned you for giving the staff grief. Now that I'm no longer staff, I have no problems saying that you are downright insufferable. Heh. I don't expect you to actually read any of what I wrote above, so I'll just step away and let you rage unfoundedly. Peace, yo.

2011-06-02 02:50:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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@CaskStrength, why you think that LBPC makes community dead? This is greates absurd i ever heard, because it's just a forum, it gethers community not killing it, everyone can join here and talk, bah level showcase and F4F allows to get some good feedback on your level. There no self declared elite group here, only strict groups here are moderators and creator spotlight, but they don't have anything to do with levels and does not effect LBP community direcly. LBPc don't have direct effect on the game either, LBPC is actually minority of community and those who mostly play your levels and jurge you are casuals, majority of LBP players don't care about LBPC at all

2011-06-02 02:52:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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wow this thread certainly took a turn for the worst. every time you log on to lbp there are at least 3000 new levels published so YOU definitely have to do something a little extra to get yours to stand out out of those 3000. I agree that the system on lbp2 is a little harder to get your stuff out there but it just requires a bit more effort as the others above have described.

2011-06-02 04:37:00 Author: juscallmeJ Posts: 77

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The game has nearly died now after being spoiled for years by selfish people like Centurion24 and mostly by LBPcentral. 4 million levels and counting? The game is just as "alive" as it ever has been. I'll explain: Centurion and a buddy of his republished the hell out of their dragon levels. The reason why you (centurion) call yourself a pro is because you probably republished and advertised all of your levels endlessly and therefore got so many plays that you think you can act like you're better then creaters with hardly any plays who have a slim basis for calling themselves pro's. The arrogance is disgusting and the most hearted creator of lbp shouldn't have such an unpleasantly competitive and greedy attitude if you ask me.Advertising is probably the most harmless tactic used to promote your level. It's why MM gave all creators the tools to do so, and why LBP.me compatibility is included in this site. So u have some nerve centurion, to act as the nice guy with advise, while in reality you know that your behavior has stolen tons of plays from decent creators' levels.Stolen? Is that what you really believe? Why aren't you attacking these creators (http://lbp.me/search?t=trending) then? Why is all your frustration directed here? How is it possible to enjoy this game when selfish people and LBPcentral tell the player which levels are good, which creaters are good and subsequently that the others are bad?This site simply promotes levels through positive feedback and sharing their creations with the community. It's rare and frowned upon to offer anything other than constructive criticism on this site. I'm not sure how you make this leap in logic to infer that we are "subsequently" casting a bad light on the thousands of other creators who don't post here. The player should be trusted to be able to make that choice themselves, as it was in the beginning, but republishers like centurion and spotlighters in LBPC think differently and have succeeded to force their will upon the community. It's not far fetched to think this was possible because the site owners here have such close ties to MM and favour the creaters who clique on their website by spotlighting them.The average player does not come to this site. They play the Cool Levels or levels with their friends. Indeed, the same techniques that get these levels spotlighted or noticed by MM are open to all members of this site. It's up to you how you choose to use the tools that are provided to you. Yeah LBP used to be a fun game, now it has nearly died and I point the finger at LBPC and all their selfproclaimed pros. As I heard, a lot of these "celebs" probably helped design the game as it is now, with the MM picks on the most prominent spot and therefore being overflown with LBPC celebs' levels. Yeah u keep thinking that you got in the spotlight cause your levels are so good, but where does that leave the levels that are better and have hardly had any plays? The only possible answer: You cheated the system at the cost of honest people. Do I have to make this more clear?!!!!Unfortunately, not everyone can get their levels spotlighted. Does this mean that the creators that didn't "make the cut" are somehow less important? Of course not. The Spotlight team is made up of members of this site with a passion for the game. They toil through hundreds of levels each month to offer up their personal opinions on which levels stand above the rest. They're human beings with preferences and aesthetic tastes and differing opinions. Bottom line: the Spotlight is just a list of recommendations by a handful of talented and dedicated forum members. That's it. There's no conspiracy. Also, I feel I need to point out that there exists an entire subforum (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?56-Recommendations) dedicated to what you described above (in addition to our Level Showcase (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?40-Level-Showcase).) I'm sure you'd find that your recommendations/own levels would be quite welcomed by the community should you choose to share them. If these so-called "honest people" need some well-deserved plays, why not just promote them yourself instead? I gave up on hoping that the game will ever recover since it would be easy for MM to decrease the influence of the dishonest people. Yet they havent even repaired the game from the laughable state it has been in since the release a half year ago. My guess is that MM jumped ship. They know most people have left cause they dont like the arrogant atmosphere created by LBPC and MM estimated that selling a couple of hundred more virtual clothes to the few people who are waiting for some entertainment to come back will not quench their greed. Most importantly: The people, like Creekey, "who don't want to have to advertise their level on these forums to get someone to play it so it can get some decent criticism" are sick and tired of your attitude and the attitude of all the other cheaters in LBPCentral who have ruined this game. So they are leaving.I'm really confused as to who has the "attitude" here... I have an unfounded hope that things will change, that MM will release an update that prevents you and the LBPC celebs from stealing comments but it's more likely that this message gets modded and I'll leave the game when Sony releases something that I can play with my lbp friends. If u have the chance to read this maybe u care to answer what lead you to do this. Why the greed? Why the need for 14.000 hearts? Why ruining the game in such an extreme way? Do you want a job at MM so you have more money? Do you like to spoil games? or did you think that people who dont spam their levels dont deserve plays and comments? I dont know what drives you cause I allways removed the cheaters from my list (yeah every "celeb" to) End of storyPlay. Create. Share. It's the hallmark of Sony's initiative with games like LBP. Apparently you have a problem with the whole "share" portion. These creators aren't out here for "fame" or greed. They're in it because they enjoy it. They work to make those levels as amazing as they are. And speaking of "sins" in the traditional sense (i.e. greed) you're conveniently forgetting an equally important one: envy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#Envy). You have a good point. It goes back to what I said before: lbp is corrupt. Just like many governments, it is run by greed. I have pretty much followed all the "pro tips" but it had no effect whatsoever. The way the players are treated by the way their new levels are literally pushed out of the way, is absolutely sickening. In such an inconspicuous place, it doesn't matter if the creator has a great title, great level badge, and well-written level description. What matters to get your level played is popularity, as I suspected.You've published your level once, you haven't created a Level Showcase level here, and you've admittedly done nothing to promote or improve your level... What did you expect? Thanks for responding. You indeed might get banned Cask, but I hope before that happens, a lot of people can read your post. The people at LBPC don't want the truth of their website coming out, just like they don't want to really reveal the true method used in which to get plays on your levels. Lbp isn't a game anymore, it is a club. But to reveal it as such would mean lesser sales. If I happened to get banned or whatever, so be it. It will further prove my point.Why in the world would you (or Cask for that matter) get banned? Last I checked, stating your opinion is not against the rules or guidelines. If you're disappointed that your level isn't getting a lot of plays, that's perfectly normal. But what are you going to do about it, outside of complaining? To allege that these creators got those plays by "cheating" is, in my opinion, petty and misguided.

2011-06-02 05:10:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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I normally hate forums and therefore don't normally post on them but as my levels weren't getting any plays i looked to other players on LBP asking for help and very few if any ever bothered to reply. I played their levels and rated them and gave feedback but even then they didn't reply to me asking for a little help to improve my own levels. I nearly thought of giving up making levels but found it was too much fun just creating for myself as i mod most games i buy. I decided no one on LBP (Meaning the every day player) would help me so i looked on this forum and as soon as i posted my first F4F level i found that lots of people that use this site actually want to help the noobs to better their skills. This is the only forum site i really use because of the feedback and help that i get instead of constant criticism and arguing that most sites give. I must admit i would love to have my name and levels raised on the pedestal of glory by MM but this is no more than a normal guy who would like to have something to talk about to his friends and be proud of its nothing to do with greed or power and i think that anyone willing to call the people who help on this site corrupt or greedy should play a game that doesn't have thousands of creators creating thousands of levels. My opinion is that the every day players are the greedy ones who don't help or share feedback. It's the few on this site and sites similar who do more for the average creator than MM or the people complaining about how unfair the games system is.

2011-06-02 06:02:00 Author: Lordwarblade Posts: 761

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It's simple really. Play other people's levels, give useful reviews and comments, recommend your level to people who play to get the word out, and just be an active part of the community. It will take a while and quite a bit of work but eventually your (creator) name will get out, and people will play your level. Will it always work? No, just don't expect people to magically flock to your level. There are 2 million levels out there, you're going to have to work to get noticed.

2011-06-02 06:13:00 Author: RagTagPwner Posts: 344

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Sorry to see you are having a hard time Creekey. You know, you could always delete your level and republish. I played your level and found some issues, The monster didn't do anything, just ran away to the edge of the cliff and stood there. Then, I ran over some invisible floor and almost ran off the edge and out of the level. So, I ran back and forth over the invisible barrier till I fell down to the scoreboard. Might want to fix those issues before you republish. Hope that helps. Anyway, I saw you played my Dream Catcher Teaser Trailer and gave it a sad face, any constructive feedback you can offer on how I can make it better in your opinion? Thanks.

2011-06-02 06:37:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Just like to rephrase when i said every day players are greedy i didn't really mean everybody just those who play and want plays themselves but give nothing to others. I really hate it when someone says its a good game but controls were awful so rate it with a sad face without specifying what exactly needed fixing. I get more plays through F4F and i think also good badges and descriptions have helped me. My first level had one line of description and got 2 plays two months the minute i gave it a good description and badge it got more plays. I still don't have many plays but this has helped so far.

2011-06-02 07:10:00 Author: Lordwarblade Posts: 761

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Your over thinking it. The system seems corrupt because of human nature's inconsistencies. It is a FACT that if your level gets about 50 plays and decent reviews within the first few hours of publish that it will be on the cool pages. How you manage this is up to you. Popular creators don't have an issue with it because all the pple who hearted them can see when its published, and all their friends. Also most popular creators have popular friends, and when their popular friends play and heart the lvl, all the thousands of pple who hearted the popular friend see he played this lvl and do the same. Resulting in a loop of plays to your level just by being popular and having popular friends. This is where pple get the idea that only popular creators can get to the cool pages. However this is not true; its a lot easier for them, but not impossible for you. Like i said earlier, getting players to play ur lvl within the first few hours is all you have to concentrate on. If you refuse to advertise, then you have very little chance. Tell all your friends to play it ASAP. Post a thread on here the second you publish detailing the pros of your lvl. If you want to go the extra mile like some do, u can make a recording of it on youtube linking to your lbp.me. Or posting on facebook and twitter also linking to ur lbp.me to allow players to queue. Once your lvl has a few hundred plays and is on the cool pages, then phase 2 begins which many players seem to have issues with. This is when the title, description, pics, and reviews matter the most. Players will be scrolling through lvls and ur focus is to catch their eye and attention. If your lvl is attractive enough to cause heavy traffic, it will slowly rise in the cool pages. reaching the front page usually gets you around 15,000 plays. If your lvl reaches the cool pages but you dont pass phase 2. Then usually it reaches 2,000 or so. Remember your main focus is getting as many players into it within the first hour of publish. I as well hate advertising, but im willing to put in a little work of advertising considering all the work i put into the lvl. Ive used this technique since lbp and i have yet to have a lvl that hasnt been on the cool pages. I dont publish much tho.

2011-06-02 07:26:00 Author: ShadowTyphoon Posts: 80

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I kind of agree with the OP. After making 2 levels, having hardly any plays, I'm starting to become a bit disheartened. Yes, my levels weren't perfect, but I've seen worse levels getting many more plays than mine. I think one of the things that people look out for when the search for levels is the creator. If it's a creator they know and trust, they'll play his/her level. This became very evident when I was watching one of comphermc's tutorials (brilliant BTW), the one on level linking. He posted a test level and it instantly got plays.... and it's a flippin' test level for crying out loud!! It's hard for newbies such as myself to get any foothold into the game, unless we create a TRULY amazing first level. Another thing is that a lot of LBP players just want a quick fix. It annoys me when I see another Nazi Zombie level getting a load of plays, or another bomb survival level. I mean, anything can be a bomb survival level nowadays, I saw a Spongebob bomb survival level yesterday! Also..... water parks...... what's the appeal there? Sooooo many water parks! Put a slide here, a floaty object there, add a sprinking of REAL WATER, sit back and watch the sheep come home! Another fad is the "press x/square/o/etc etc fast" levels. I've joked about it in another thread, but I think I'll call my next level "Nazi Zombie Bomb Survival Water Park Press X Fast, with Free Costumes Kill Justin Beiber" I'm currently making another level. Whilst I'm hopeful that I'll get more plays than my last 2 levels, I'm not expectant..... but I'm not completely put off level making yet. I have other ideas in the pipeline too.

2011-06-02 07:40:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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"Nazi Bomb Survival Water Park Press X Fast, with Free Costumes Kill Justin Beiber" Ha If you made this and it had all the trimmings i'd play it. Although i don't like Bomb Survivals, water parks, Press X etc etc games. I do like costumes though and killing small annoying pretty boy mungrels. No offense to any annoying pretty boy mungrels reading this. I'd especially play if it had none of them in it. Unfortunately these are also the sort of drivel that are all the craze on itunes and things like that.

2011-06-02 09:13:00 Author: Lordwarblade Posts: 761

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I think it's mainly goes off the name of the level to begin with. If you have something that is popular within the media then your bound to get the upperhand and get a lot more look-ins even if it is a really naff level. For example, playing with my 10 and 6 year old nephews on LBP, they always tell me for things to search. It's never anything mundane like 'SAND' or 'towers', it's all 'dr who', 'power rangers', 'the simpsons', etc etc. So the people who's named their levels with that, will get extra plays because they are all really popular within the demographic age of the game. Another thing why your level might not get as many plays as you like is because that their is SO many levels being created, that on the 'new' page, your level will get pushed further and further down the list of 'newness', that unless someone is willing to sift through all the names of the levels to find interesting sounding ones, then you'll not get a look in. I suppose it does also help to 'advertise' your level to your friends/forums/facebook friends (if they have the game), because then it'll get you a few extra plays. But even going off that, the level I posted on here, didn't reflect the number of plays on my level. The post showed around 25 views, which hardly went up on the actual level. How well your level is built/works/looks/feels is probably another important factor. How many people have played a level and thought it was brilliant, and then recommended it to friends? That's whas known as 'networking' in the real world, passing on experiences to others. That will also get you more plays and thats probably how all these 'popular' creators started off in the first place. I don't really think it's because of all these 'hearts for hearts' or anything like that. From experience, you can tell that it is just kids with really rubbish levels who put this on their level descriptions. When your older your not that niave or childish to write that within a level. You get more views by walking the walk, and talking the talk, working your **** off to get it to look nice/work properly and getting an original idea that nobody else has thought of and done.

2011-06-02 18:07:00 Author: dbibby88 Posts: 378

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If you want my advice, you should put some pole dancers in your level. Seriously...the community goes wild for a touch of "sexy" in LBP. You could also try other exotic and alluring characters such Vegas show girls, bikini clad beach-babes and...um...sheep in silk stockings and suspenders?

2011-06-02 18:25:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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jww: ?but if you wish to waste your energy on being upset about a toy, then? Cheap shot, everyone who puts effort in creating a level has been upset about this toy. Don?t tell me that in the thousands of hours you played this game you were at a constant wave of utter joy. And to me you?re the advocate of the devil because every time I post critique about lbpc on this site, you pop up with a message about how wonderful this place is. Anyway, for one of the most active members on this site, you?re not the perfect messenger to tell people that it's only a game, in my opinion. @ the message of the counteszz: and what a sad clique it is, counteszz makes a seductive comment and the male clique members thank her for it. It looks like all your slaves are still obaying you so you can go do your evil work somewhere else now. Go promote your levels or work out new cheap tactics to improve your fame. Jayhawk: skip the icon crap or do you really think that changing the cover of your level that is burried under a pile of **** outweights the number of plays you get when u keep emailing MM till they play your level and put it on MM picks? Well I don't cause I know that the most played level in the LBP2 beta got its thousands of plays by not going for the icon option. Fang: I don't play this game for fame. If I was then I would do all the things the so called famous creaters do: advertising and promoting yourself wherever u can, making threads here about how good your level is, in other words: pushing yourself into the spotlight. I?m not and I hope I?ll never be like that. It's really shocking to see how many people here have such a hard time getting the point. It's not about fame or greed or selfishness, not everyone is like the celebs of lbpc! It's about not getting a single comment or play in your level anymore because of the people who push themselves in the spotlight. I've been making levels since the start of lbp1 and let me ?paint a lil timeline for you? 700 plays, 600 plays, 800 plays, 500 plays, republishing appeared, 200 plays, 100 plays, lbpc got famous, 20 plays, 10 plays, 0 plays, 0 plays, 0 plays. I?d be pleased with like 400 plays cause it gives me feedback on my level, tells me what was good and what I could improve so I get new ideas and enthousiasm to make a new level again. Of course my buddies play my levels and give me the best feedback but you need comments from strangers as well or you will start becoming too similar to the people you often play with. You need that fresh wind if you know what I?m saying. The celebs enjoy that to and they steal it away from decent players. They constantly keep saying that you are free to use their tactics as well so there is no reason to whine. They don't understand however that some people refuse to stoop down to that level. How?d you like it if you buy something and then you notice that u need to become a member of some exclusive club and behave according to what they dictate or you wont be able to fully utilise the product you bought? Yeah u may like it now cause you think the lbpc clubmembers are such nice people. I however hate them for adding this hierarchy into lbp. In my opinion they should just get the f out of the way because they don't improve my product in any way. I was happier when they were gone and I could just publish a level, get my fair share of comments, which I was pleased with and continue playing without having to promote any of my work all day like some paparazzi media wh0re. Comphermc. U really don't deserve an answer since u have silenced so many people when u were carrying the banhammer but for the arguements sake I?ll respond. I?m not going to give u the location of these hidden gems so u can try to make the creaters part of the lbpc clique and act as if every decent creater is given recognition by lbpc and strengthen you vicious defence by saying that if you?re not spotlighted then you shouldn?t whine cause your levels arent good enough. But I will shake your world by telling you that there are many of them. About there not beying evidence for lbpc favouring certain creaters: you handed out crowns for people?s work for this website. Some of these people had not even published 1 level! Another obvious piece of evidence is that your level can only be spotlighted if you advertised it in a thread on this site!!! So in the evidence department: Are u freakin blind? About talented creaters consistantly making good levels: I?m not surprised that certain talented people consistantly make great levels. I?m also not jealous about it. I also don't get what it has to do with the topic. About the: advertise, network, spread the word on facebook, twitter, lbpc and other fansites: That?s my point, this is what lbp has become. F it, let it die. Let it rot between the corpses of other products that betrayed peoples trust and let them wright it on the cover so people will vomit, accept the fact and then think twice before buying it. However, it is the way how people like you and lbpc made this game. It puzzles me why MM doesn?t prevent lbp from turning into this however. Everyone knew what a bad influence this selfish behaviour had by seeing the republished bomd levels spreading. Yet they didn?t do anything. And I know I used some overheated language in this alinea. I also know people will think wow get a life. However, as we all know, it takes like 100 hours to make a level so if someone messes with it, the only natural response is to be angry. Therefore people pointing out that it's only a game and that therefore you should allways act happy are dishonest people or they are just plain stupid. About condemning the system not being a good way to market yourself: You proved that it will never sink into your skull again. Not everyone?s main setup is to market themselves compher. Now I think about it, I think that marketing yourself isn?t a good way to market yourself. It displays greedy and selfish behaviour. About your edit: I have a hard time believing that you forgot who you were talking to till you edited your text because I tend to remember the unsufferable people pretty well myself. Maybe you wanna lay off whatever is causing your memory loss for a while cause in general it doesn?t help your credability. Shadowdriver: I don't know how long you have been playing this game but, in my opinion, you understimate the influence of lbpc. Back in the day they have been the main supplyer of crowns (I don't know how much they handed out overall and how that compares to MM or the only other lbp website I know but my 1st guess would be they handed out the most). This awarding of crowns put them into the position to declare who is a great creator and who isnt. I think that answered your question extensively enough to adjust your opinion. Schmo: how many of those 4 million are restorations from lbp1 levels? Besides that, I can see in my friendlist and the player counter that there has been a mass migration. It's casting a bad light because mods like comphermc openly assume that people who are disappointed by getting 0 plays on their levels want to have thousands but they shouldn?t whine because they?re too bad to be spotlighted (even though they never even tried to get spotlighted) @ shadows last msg: I realise this wasn?t directed at me but I?d like to say that I like your constructive approach. Finally someone seems to understand that it's not about envying fame. I think I made it clear that I might hate advertising more then you. However this is what lbp has become and yeah, if u cant beat the system u should join it. Therefore I understand people who surrendered to it, yet I still hate the ones responsible. Personally, I don't know which way to go yet. Surrendering like you by boosting my levels to 100 plays for instance or retreiting. I probably will go for the latter because I've been doing so all the time. Interesting biography huh? Also I still cant believe lbp will be better off when the entire community exists out of advertisers. I don't want the game to die either you know, I love it because it's like the expanded version of The Incredible Machine, a game where you could experiment with the laws of physics as well. So I want this game to be a success to and grow into a real world similator and beyond but I stand up against the repressing effect advertisement has on the select group of people that refuse to practise it. They are leaving the game now because creating a level seems like a waste of time when not a single soul seems to appreciate it and I think that?s a shame because some of these creaters have made irreplaceable pieces of art in my opinion and seeing them being spewed out doesn?t carry my support. So I still have some hope that something will change. @ Ali star: I totally agree so much. Thx for providing a good example of celeb comphermc?s place in corrupting the system. I found the example of the water parks hilarious to. Sy for the freakishly large post but I felt that it needed to be said

2011-06-02 18:26:00 Author: Unknown User

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Are u freakin blind? I'm far from blind, but your rage has placed you squarely in this camp. You use lots of angry words and vague generalizations to try and present evidence, but it just comes off as nonsensical ranting. Comphermc. U really don’t deserve an answer since u have silenced so many people when u were carrying the banhammer but for the arguements sake I’ll respond. No, you're upset that I silenced you. In reality, in about 18 month of moderating, I only silenced about 5 people. I'm sorry if 5 seems like a big number to you, but for most people it cannot be classified as so many. I’m not going to give u the location of these hidden gems so u can try to make the creaters part of the lbpc clique and act as if every decent creater is given recognition by lbpc and strengthen you vicious defence by saying that if you’re not spotlighted then you shouldn’t whine cause your levels arent good enough. But I will shake your world by telling you that there are many of them. You have misread my motivations. I said that I wanted to play them. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that I want to expand my clique at LBPC. Look at my activity bar on the left; I'm barely even on this site, and I'm actually an admin on a different site. I'm not part of the spotlight team, and have zero say over what levels are selected. You can get mad at me all you want, but you better have some actual reason for it. Heh. About there not beying evidence for lbpc favouring certain creaters: you handed out crowns for people’s work for this website. Some of these people had not even published 1 level! The crowns were not awarded for making levels. Simple as. In fact, getting crowned on the merit of one's level is the rarest form of crowning and has only happened on a handful of occasions. Rather, many members of this site have been rewarded for their tireless work contributing to game as a whole. LBPCentral only served as a means through which to contribute. Other sites do the same, but few have the same reach. You seem to view this reciprocity for bettering the game as favoritism, but it's a gross oversimplification. Stop thinking about yourself so much - it has to be depressingly dull. Another obvious piece of evidence is that your level can only be spotlighted if you advertised it in a thread on this site!!! Wow, you are dumb. You clearly don't understand what the LBPCentral Community Spotlight is. It's a system to recognize the work of creators that has been posted on this site. The only rule for entry is that you have made a thread in the level showcase. You seem to think this is a bad thing? It's just a way of identifying a pool of levels, and in reality, anyone can post a thread. Even you! It's easy - you just click the Post New Level (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/misc.php?do=form&fid=6) button. I'm sure someone of even your devolved reasoning skills could figure that one out!

2011-06-02 18:54:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Deamn that was quick response. Are you sure you're only barely active on this site? You made a lot of replies too for a post that you discribe as being irrational. Must be due to my incapability to make sense out of things that something doesnt seem to add up. But pls dont derail this thread, someone might ban you!

2011-06-02 19:14:00 Author: Unknown User

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Deamn that was quick response. Are you sure you're only barely active on this site? I'm chatting with someone who is a bit more active. Any other tin-hat theories? You made a lot of replies too for a post that you discribe as being irrational. Must be due to my incapability to make sense out of things that something doesnt seem to add up. I think you mean 'inability'? And you're right, I can't make any sense out of what this is trying to say. But pls dont derail this thread, someone might ban you! k

2011-06-02 19:19:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Hmm, it appears that a nerve has been touched. The point is this: LBP1 had a system in place that gave a chance to let ALL new levels be played. LBPC and MM made LBP2 a club, brushing new levels off to the sides. LBP2 is the worse for it. Everyone is mistaking this argument. They say I want fame. I do not want fame. I do however, want a few plays. And I don't want to come here to use F4F or advertising. Why? Because I want the game to be a game, not my life. I don't care to come here like everyone else and try to promote my level during my time away from LBP. LBP1 had the right idea. Everyone here that is bashing my argument is defending the exact behavior I'm talking about. I get that, but it tells me that my argument is all the more true. You all have strength in numbers because LBPC is the hub of where all this behavior takes place. Cask and I am are the odd ones out. And thanks for your pro tips but they didn't help much. Why? Because isn't it common knowledge? You say that I speak for just my levels, that I envy everyone elses. That is not the case. I am speaking for all my friends of LBP who do not use these forums. I am speaking for the people who don't promote their level because they are humble, who have made just as good of a level, if not better levels than some of the MM Picks. But they aren't being recognized. Take a creator I know called Boia, for instance. He makes GREAT stuff yet he hasn't gotten nearly want I think he deserves. Sorry to see you are having a hard time Creekey. You know, you could always delete your level and republish. I played your level and found some issues, The monster didn't do anything, just ran away to the edge of the cliff and stood there. Then, I ran over some invisible floor and almost ran off the edge and out of the level. So, I ran back and forth over the invisible barrier till I fell down to the scoreboard. Might want to fix those issues before you republish. Hope that helps. Anyway, I saw you played my Dream Catcher Teaser Trailer and gave it a sad face, any constructive feedback you can offer on how I can make it better in your opinion? Thanks. Don't come to a public forum and inadvertantly bash my level by telling me things I need to fix and I won't tell you how to be an arrogant, pompous idiot. I saw that you played my level too, yet you left no feedback there. Why did you feel as though it was necessary to leave it here on this public forum? If I had any constructive negative feedback on your level, I would have done it the proper way, by leaving it in your comments after I played it. Clearly I angered you with my opinion, but don't worry, it isn't as if my ONE sad face out of all the other dozens of sad and happy faces will ruin or even dent your reputation. Thanks.

2011-06-02 19:37:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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It's really not worth getting this upset/worked up about; best to play something else! Now as to the original poster, who had a legitimate question. If you truely want feedback and to improve your create skills and not fame, getting plays on your level isn't the answer. You're only real option is to befriend other creators...and this site and being pro-active with the level showcase F4F is a great way to go about this. Now for some proof; I gathered up all the feeback from Wooly Bully. It's my only LBP2 level but it's also my 2nd highest played with over 2000 plays. As you can see from these "reviews", while pretty good for the ego, it's not going to help me improve. The reason is pretty obvious, people are playing to have fun...they're not interested in doing a full/detailed review or doing your bug testing. You can compare this list of pleasantries to the much more valuable responses to my F4F thread https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=50657-Wooly-Bully&highlight=wooly+bully My favorite Elvenbane level yet - once again, you've shown your visual prowess, but this is also the best platforming and gameplay you've done. thats beat everything ive ever played! simply amazing! & perfect! absolutely beautiful scenery & amazing platforming with a funny/cute story ^^ A work of art! The amount of beautiful creations you have made is staggering. Great platforming, nice lighthearted story, amazing boss battle, this level is fullofwin Nothing short of a masterpiece man! stunning visuals, and very fun gameplay. I love the tigers, just awesome. A true work of art! looking forward to more from you, that is for sure. =) Your levels kinda gorgeous =O It has it all great visuals, gameplay, storyline,& cinematics *Highly recommended wow a wonderfull platformer in fantastic look !!! made white love ! i love it ! super great job ! plz more levels in this style ;-) Everything about this is outstanding. It looks beautiful, plays sublime, and is overflowin with fun, humor & creativity. I appeciate, very much, the care you took to keep it all in context and immersive, and give every obstacle and segment so much variety & LBP-ness without losing a shred of integrity in the environment and your intended representation of the themes. Just giving me a logical "reason" to fire chickens at sabretooth tigers is enough to call it genius. Wow, visually impressive, and the gameplay and story are great too! One of the best levels on here wonderful!難しいところもありましたが、無限復活ポイントなので下手な自分でもクリア出来ました ！どの場所も楽しくてのめり込めました。ニワトリが卵を産んだ時は思わず笑ってしまった。。。 原始時代にタイムスリップしたかのようなアクションステージです。洞窟の地形がすばらしいです。個人的には 珊瑚のような海の生き物や鶏のクリエイトギアが好きです。進み方を迷うこともあるかと思いますが、がんばっ てみてください。このステージにはいろんなものが詰まっていますよ。 Brilliant job. This is your best level yet. Visually breathtaking and great platforming gameplay. This level was stunning altogether. Visuals especially. Only thing that I didn't like was the half tedius boss fight, but that was still impressing, great job! Breathtaking scenery design and use of materials. Very much liked the dreamlike cinematic and the design of animal characters was like nothing i saw anywhere. The story and the bots were great again but the final boss i think was more frustrating and less chalenging than should be. Thanks for sharing. Best. Level. EVER. Great level, with story, gameplay and very artistic! The best level I have played on LittleBigPlanet 2, and that includes the Media Molecule levels. Absolutely superb! I am just speechless, that was one of the best levels I have ever played on LBP. As soon as I came out of the entrance checkpoint my jaw dropped at the STUNNING visuals, i've never seen visuals like that in LBP! The animals were brilliant as well, excellent use of the fur material. The wooly mammoth boss was superb also. Couldn't find any faults at all, absolutely amazing, keep it up! XD Absolute masterclass! The platforming was great, visuals were eye-popping and that was also one of the greatest and most memorable boss battles ever! Sackboys Prehistoric Moves doesn't come even close to this! Sackboys Prehistoric Moves would be proud! Just one phrase suits this level: MM PICK! Amazing work! It had a "Chuck Rock" kind of feel to it. You really decorated it beautifully, it almost wasn't LBP anymore, such a lively and well realised environment. What kept going through my mind while playing was how much detail you were able to put into this level. The design is simply spectacular... I'm surprised the thermometer didn't explode! That was simply amazing. Just about everything in it was perfect. And the visuals! Fantastic! Sweet Candy! You've made my day it has everything Visuals and Gameplay was a load of fun! One of the best storylines from a creator. Love so many things about this level. The animals and the environment were so great. Thanks for the work you put into this. very beautiful lvl Nice level with a few flaws that can be ironed out in the next version. Make the path to the wooly's back clearer, fix the cinematic trigger on its foot stomping Brilliant! Beautiful! A fun level & so much to see!! Thanks for such a wonderful level! Great level. Visually the best community level I've played so far. Monstrous boss was magnificento! great！ Great but the boss is frustrating. sooooo good simply brilliant I love it wen u have to swing all over the mamoth,great job! cntt cath spidder! Beautiful level! Prime example of why LBP 2 is so good. Would you mind trying one of my levels? I'd appreciate your input. so cool! One of the best looking levels I think I've EVER played, you've certainly managed to master something I call 'decoration manipulation', where you've several decorations and matched them with the environment to create something that looks authentic and beautiful The animals looked fantastic, can I ask though, what was the involvement of the Toy Story aliens for? Much love though, a vivid experience! cool wow thats pretty cool good job with the details and funny story I liked the level, but I felt bad for the mammoth at the end That was a truly amazing experience. Beautiful level design and a story line to tie it all together. The boss battle reminded me of Shadow of the Colossus (my favourite game alongside LBP). great level!! everything looked stunning, the only complaint i would make would be the use of the toy story alien Awesome !!!!!! SUPERB!!!! ふむよよ I'm in awe! No matter how many times I play this level, I always replay it just for the heck of it. This level is a jewel that deserves way more plays. I especially loved the boss battle. We need more caveman levels such as this. Good job! Beauty!! this is sad 2 kill 1 what a lvl , flawless, u came 2 limelight with bang,masterpiece So great. Now where is the tag for paleontolically accurate? Brilliant. Simply amazing! The artwork and use of materials and background alone was worth playing for. Too hard 2 get da spider Beautiful work! Really captured the theme of an ice age and the platforming elements were perfect. Good level WOW brilliant well made wow i really connected with the story love the enviornment, check my level out gimme some tiips Beautiful work! Really captured the theme of an ice age and the platforming elements were perfect. Good level WOW brilliant well made wow i really connected with the story love the enviornment, check my level out gimme some tiips it was a really great adventure and hunt! I love your level desirn and decoration, and of course these cool characters! All of this look wonderful! It is one of the most beautifull and fun level that I played in LBP2 Great creation! This level should have been in Prehistoric Moves (wth a few Move thingies added of course). Finally some real platforming! I loved it! ざこい One of the best levels I played so far in LBP2! Great use of decorations and a very artistic artork with creatures and scenery. Amazing!!! Hope to see more from you! Hearted for sure, both level and creator! that really puts things in perspective ...we come along way LITTLE GREEN MEN! Wonderfully Amazing. 'Nuff said. Verry verry verry Nice, Good Job, Fantastic, Really Perfect Firstly the inovations are very good, you have blue plant life reacting to player closeness, pimples used as mushrooms, CHICKENS THAT YOU USE AS BAIT! There's a few in there indeed. Gameplay is balanced well, with the keep trying approach, and is never bland or overused. I do feel the visuals may have been a bit overdone, making it hard to focus on the "gaming zone". It's hard to make levels look organic and get this area right though. One of the best community levels I have come across. Instant favorite. Beautiful detail and fun unique gameplay too! Just amazing.... What a great story!!! Can't wait for more!!! i love it Unfortunately they never had a 'masterpiece' label. You are the best, loved every bit of it. wow, another great level. I loved all the detail in the environment, and great game play. Thank you for sharing this. FANTASTIC!!!GENIAL!!! CONGRATULATIONS! What? not an mm pick? I really liked this level and the artwork is superb. I did have a few issues with the gameplay that would be nice to see worked out but I'll leave that feedback in the comments. Overall, great level, nice work! Fantastic job, the only bit of feedback is to watch your frame rate, luckily it didn't get in the way when it counts, but it does make the visuals less enjoyable with screen tearing happening often. Great job overall! Please give my level, the Demon Worm King a play test if you get the chance. Thanks! I love this!! really enjoyed this level!!! keep up the good work!!!! great visual ♪ o(^-^o)(o^-^)o great lvl vary original fun level well decorated too wow great job 멋쪄부러 fantastic! on all levels. Looks amazing especially underwater but some of the camera angles made this more difficult with two players. Great, everyone play this! Gorgeous Level wow, really detailed. beautiful Super beautiful level !! awesome design (gameplay,story and graphism) just an amazing level all around. Visuals, playstyle, story, it has it all! awesome , all the elements 4 a great lvl a truly beautiful level bravo!

2011-06-02 19:52:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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Don't come to a public forum and inadvertantly bash my level by telling me things I need to fix and I won't tell you how to be an arrogant, pompous idiot. I saw that you played my level too, yet you left no feedback there. Why did you feel as though it was necessary to leave it here on this public forum? If I had any constructive negative feedback on your level, I would have done it the proper way, by leaving it in your comments after I played it. Clearly I angered you with my opinion, but don't worry, it isn't as if my ONE sad face out of all the other dozens of sad and happy faces will ruin or even dent your reputation. Thanks. Oh sorry, thought you wanted feedback about how to make your level better. As for leaving feedback, I thought I just did that here, but somehow, this is "public" and wrong somehow? Sorry I took the time to play your level and let you know about game breaking issues. Sheesh? Anyway, I saw you left a boo on my level and thought you might like to post suggestions. Yes, even in "public". As for my "reputation", don't worry, I don't have one, so you don't have to worry about damaging it.

2011-06-02 20:24:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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The point is this: LBP1 had a system in place that gave a chance to let ALL new levels be played. LBPC and MM made LBP2 a club, brushing new levels off to the sides. LBP2 is the worse for it. Yes, if only LBP2 had some sort of "feature" that would allow you to see all the newest levels so you could play them, or better yet, queue them up to play later!!! http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/schm01978/newest.jpg Everyone is mistaking this argument. They say I want fame. I do not want fame. I do however, want a few plays. And I don't want to come here to use F4F or advertising. Why? Because I want the game to be a game, not my life. I don't care to come here like everyone else and try to promote my level during my time away from LBP. LBP1 had the right idea. Everyone here that is bashing my argument is defending the exact behavior I'm talking about. I get that, but it tells me that my argument is all the more true.Then your only hope is a) random plays from people stumbling across your level among the millions of others or b) plays from your friends. Unless you have astronomical luck or 1000 PSN contacts, it ain't gonna happen. You all have strength in numbers because LBPC is the hub of where all this behavior takes place. Cask and I am are the odd ones out.You are no different than any other member here on LBPC, and are afforded precisely the same advantages that this community offers. Again, it is your choice to not promote your level, and thus your choice to not receive helpful feedback and additional plays. And thanks for your pro tips but they didn't help much. Why? Because isn't it common knowledge?This knowledge is freely available to anyone with a search engine or the time to post a question in the Help forum. You say that I speak for just my levels, that I envy everyone elses. That is not the case. I am speaking for all my friends of LBP who do not use these forums. I am speaking for the people who don't promote their level because they are humble, who have made just as good of a level, if not better levels than some of the MM Picks. But they aren't being recognized. Take a creator I know called Boia, for instance. He makes GREAT stuff yet he hasn't gotten nearly want I think he deserves.Again, the Recommendations forum (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?56-Recommendations) is the perfect place for this. Why not help him out by promoting his levels!? Your refusal to use the tools you are given is your downfall. In my opinion, it's just stubborn and ignorant to avoid using them altogether for some misguided principle.

2011-06-02 20:24:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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@Creekey, Well i got idea, make an "idea" on there GetSatisfaction page: http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet ...about new briging back new level in to front postion, ofcorse write the reason and something motivating. MM reads there often and even might reply and status it, like here: http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/level_groups When you write up idea post link here and you might find support of it thru i'm really not sure if this gonna more visible new levels will help, since new levels is consistly changing list and qulity of most levels demotivates to even visit that section (this might be the reason why they hide it more)

2011-06-02 20:30:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I think the easiest way to get plays is to just have a lot of friends who like LBP. Just make them play your level when you publish. I do that and I get a decent amount of plays on my levels (around 500 - 1000) which to be honest is good enough for me. I'm not really that pressed for plays or hearts, I just like to know if I did good with my level. I like feedback, and honestly, I hate it when people just tell me my level is "good" or "nice" but don't say why. Or if they say it's "bad" or it "sucks" and don't say why. I only really want plays to know if my level is good. I always wanna find new ways to improve my work and my skills. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And I don't care what anyone says, ANYONE who publishes their levels WANTS plays! Some want it for feedback, some want it for attention. Some want it just because they like it when others enjoy their work. There's a long list of possible reasons, but the simple truth is NO ONE publishes their levels for NOTHING. Sure you may enjoy what you create and you may say that plays aren't too important to you. But you know when you see something that you've put time and energy into get noticed and loved (or even hated) by a lot people, it's ten times better than seeing nothing at all. I get why you're mad caskstrength, but the creators that you claim are "greedy" and "take all the plays from the more unknown creators" aren't as evil as you think. At least in my opinion, most of the creators that get tons of play are ACTUALLY really good creators. Most of them make levels that are "top of the line" or simply better than most. Sure there are a few hidden gems yes, but sadly, that's no ones fault. Just look at websites like Youtube. There are plenty of high-quality videos out there that should have a kajillion views, but they don't. Is it Youtube's fault that their videos go unnoticed? Or the video makers that have a lot of subscribers? NOPE! It's just the nature of the system. I don't think it will ever be perfect. The famous creators don't "steal" plays, they just find ways to manipulate a flawed system in their favor. If you are not willing to "stoop to that level" then that's no one's fault but yours. If you really want plays, then I say go crazy! Do whatever you need to do to get them plays! Anyone who tells you, you're a "suck up" or thinks you're "greedy or selfish" is either a hypocrite or a dummy. (No offense heh...)

2011-06-02 20:42:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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Oh sorry, thought you wanted feedback about how to make your level better. As for leaving feedback, I thought I just did that here, but somehow, this is "public" and wrong somehow? Sorry I took the time to play your level and let you know about game breaking issues. Sheesh? Anyway, I saw you left a boo on my level and thought you might like to post suggestions. Yes, even in "public". As for my "reputation", don't worry, I don't have one, so you don't have to worry about damaging it. Don't try to act all innocent as if you didn't know EXACTLY what you are doing here. You didn't give me feedback until AFTER I gave you a "boo" late last night. You had played my level much earlier in the day, yet you did not want to give me feedback then. Your goal was to appeal to all the other LBPC members that hate by smashing my level because you think it makes my accusation that "new levels are pushed aside for the popular creators," less true. But I don't need to explain all this to you, you are well aware of your actions. Your refusal to use the tools you are given is your downfall. In my opinion, it's just stubborn and ignorant to avoid using them altogether for some misguided principle. Clearly you know nothing about my point: LBPC is leeching the basic fundamentals of classic LBP gameplay. LBPC is a useless middleman who selfishly dictates what creators can and can't have (like plays). Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about. And if you dispute this, who are you to say what LBP should be about? As for misguided principle, as a mod on this website, you should look in the mirror.

2011-06-02 20:54:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Woah, guys stop the heated debate. This thread is just an idea Creeky has that mabye the community pages should be reformed. He is obviously angry at the current system. You could put this down to two things- People not liking the look of your level and the fact that more than half of the community search the cool pages, lets face the fact that people just dont want to end up playing a "noob" level. Im not saying every new level is a "noob" one but people dont want to take the chance. The other thing is that in my honest opinion the newest levels page doesnt get enough publicity. Its not in your face enough. Another point that should be noted is that most "big creatorss" get plays because people will know their levels will be goo. They subscibe to their earth page if you like. There is no need for the arguing going on. Creeky my advice to you right now would be to calm down, take a break and come back later because your recent post will just make more people here angry and thats not good for you at the moment. The accusations going on in this thread are a bit "out there" and this was just supposed to be about a better way for people to notice your levels. So calm down.

2011-06-02 21:18:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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I think you're barking up the wrong tree blaming anybody but Mm for your lack of plays. The simple fact of the matter is that due to the infamous loading screen glitch which makes playing with friends almost intolerable, the majority of the community have become creators, not players. Mm have known about the infinite loading screen problem since the beta and done absolutely nothing to address it. Back in the days of LBP1 I would often scroll down my friends list to see who was doing what, and most of them would be actively playing an LBP level as part of a group. Now I scroll down the list and see almost every single person listed as alone in create mode or playing a different game altogether. If people were still playing with their mates these days, it wouldn't matter how popular the latest level by "FamouscreatorX" is, because soon enough those friends would have finished up in that level and would be looking for the next one to play, possibly making their way though 10-30 levels every night. Let's face it, if your gonna sit there and play PS3 on your own then there are better games than LBP2 to do that with, but if you wanna have a laugh with your friends online then LBP2 is no longer the "fun with mates" environment that LBP1 used to be. Unlike LBP1, the only real quality time that most people get out of LBP2 is in create mode. That's the big difference between then and now. Not comphermc being "cosy" with Mm. Not jww "kissing up" on LBPC. It's those friggin' loading screens you need to point your finger at, so instead of coming around here spitting your verbal diarrhoea at people like an incontinent butthole perhaps your time would be better spent e-mailing Mm to tell them their faulty product is killing the spirit of the game.

2011-06-02 22:22:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Woah, guys stop the heated debate. This thread is just an idea Creeky has that mabye the community pages should be reformed. He is obviously angry at the current system. You could put this down to two things- People not liking the look of your level and the fact that more than half of the community search the cool pages, lets face the fact that people just dont want to end up playing a "noob" level. Im not saying every new level is a "noob" one but people dont want to take the chance. The other thing is that in my honest opinion the newest levels page doesnt get enough publicity. Its not in your face enough. Another point that should be noted is that most "big creatorss" get plays because people will know their levels will be goo. They subscibe to their earth page if you like. There is no need for the arguing going on. Creeky my advice to you right now would be to calm down, take a break and come back later because your recent post will just make more people here angry and thats not good for you at the moment. The accusations going on in this thread are a bit "out there" and this was just supposed to be about a better way for people to notice your levels. So calm down. My accusations aren't a bit out there. Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean it's out there. Because when it's all said and done the truth remains: If LBPC didn't exist, LBPers would be forced to find new levels on their own to play. I think you're barking up the wrong tree blaming anybody but Mm for your lack of plays. Hmm, how so? As far as I am aware, we are all entitled to our own opinions even if mine don't match yours. But I would like to offer a correction for your post. You said that we are blaming anybody but MM. No, I am not blaming anyone, I am blaming LBPC and their methods. I have also said before that MM contributed to it because they put the Newest Level filter option so out of the way that it is barely noticeable.

2011-06-02 22:23:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Clearly you know nothing about my point: LBPC is leeching the basic fundamentals of classic LBP gameplay. LBPC is a useless middleman who selfishly dictates what creators can and can't have (like plays). Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about. And if you dispute this, who are you to say what LBP should be about? As for misguided principle, as a mod on this website, you should look in the mirror. I think you have a reasonable argument here, but can you explain how MM would go about in eradicating advertisement? Should they shut down every LBP fansite? And somehow ban twitter and facebook? And somehow completely disable all contact with other PSN users? Sure it would mean discontent from billions of other people (Most don't even know about LittleBigPlanet), but hey, if it's for a video game, why not?

2011-06-02 22:29:00 Author: Silver39 Posts: 1703

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Don't try to act all innocent as if you didn't know EXACTLY what you are doing here. You didn't give me feedback until AFTER I gave you a "boo" late last night. You had played my level much earlier in the day, yet you did not want to give me feedback then. Your goal was to appeal to all the other LBPC members that hate by smashing my level because you think it makes my accusation that "new levels are pushed aside for the popular creators," less true. But I don't need to explain all this to you, you are well aware of your actions. Haha, wow. Sorry, no such conspiracy. I played your level when you started this thread. I don't leave boo's on peoples levels unless they are rude or mean spirited, as a personal rule. In fact, I got busy and completely forgot about this thread and your level until I saw your sad face with no comment on my level. Which reminded me of this thread and the fact that I didn't tell you about that issue. I've had people post here that there is a technical issue with my level and always appreciated it. I thought you would too. Apparently not. I never thought of it as tool to shame you somehow. The best creators have had issues. People were falling out of the level on the Hansel and Sackbot level and people reported it to them so they could fix it. That's kind if what these forums at for. I'm not sure why posting here publicly, versus posting on your level publicly is so different. Either way, you've been quite rude to me for no reason other than the fact that I took the time to play your level and then took more time to report some helpful issues to you.... at this point, I feel I'm just wasting my time completely. In the future, I will save us both a lot of time, and never play another of your published levels again. No hard feelings, I just don't appreciate trying to be helpful just to have it thrown in my face.

2011-06-02 22:34:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Ungreth, you don't get it. Comph is responsible for the downfall of the world apparently.

2011-06-02 22:36:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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I think you have a reasonable argument here, but can you explain how MM would go about in eradicating advertisement? Should they shut down every LBP fansite? And somehow ban twitter and facebook? And somehow completely disable all contact with other PSN users? Sure it would mean discontent from billions of other people (Most don't even know about LittleBigPlanet), but hey, if it's for a video game, why not? Lol, no I don't think MM could get rid of advertisement. I think however, they could make it more difficult for advertisement to have such a deep impact on LBP. As I have said before, MM should not have the Newest Level filter option in such an unnoticed, out of the way spot. It's true that people are always interested in playing the best levels so they aren't wasting their time. But MM shouldn't discount the option of letting non-advertisers (and those who aren't interested in it) pick which levels are the best as well. This could be done by allowing the Newest Level filter button to be on the front page of search options, right next to MM Picks and Cool Pages.

2011-06-02 22:43:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Lol, no I don't think MM could get rid of advertisement. I think however, they could make it more difficult for advertisement to have such a deep impact on LBP. As I have said before, MM should not have the Newest Level filter option in such an unnoticed, out of the way spot. It's true that people are always interested in playing the best levels so they aren't wasting their time. But MM shouldn't discount the option of letting non-advertisers (and those who aren't interested in it) pick which levels are the best as well. This could be done by allowing the Newest Level filter button to be on the front page of search options, right next to MM Picks and Cool Pages. Valid point. But from some of your previous posts, it seemed that you were more interested in completely changing the whole LBP community into a no advertising zone, this seems much more reasonable.

2011-06-02 22:55:00 Author: Silver39 Posts: 1703

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Because when it's all said and done the truth remains: If LBPC didn't exist, LBPers would be forced to find new levels on their own to play. This is a faulty assumption. How many bad levels do you think the average person will play before they stop looking and give up on LBP entirely?

2011-06-02 22:56:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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Clearly you know nothing about my point: LBPC is leeching the basic fundamentals of classic LBP gameplay. LBPC is a useless middleman who selfishly dictates what creators can and can't have (like plays). Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about. And if you dispute this, who are you to say what LBP should be about? As for misguided principle, as a mod on this website, you should look in the mirror. What LBP suppose to be about? About being perpetum-mobile godly made game that every level get rewarder out of no where? Adrvitisment is not corrupotion just because there evil ads on net, it's a basis of creation. Adrvitisment is leting people know about your creation. No body will play your level if they don't know that it exist and specially no body will care to play your level if it's not looking attractive and interesting, why even bother to play if level looks boring on front, Ads didn't been create to torture you, it's only way to reach people about there product, even if it's free. You might not even get the fact that what you asking is in game adrvitisment of your level, because every list of levels in the game is nothing more then form of adrvitisment. If you create adn what to people to play it, you need to adrvitise it Again and i don't know why te hell people still not get it... so i use caps IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE 100% FAIR SYSTEM WHERE EVERY SINGLE LEVEL GET PLAYED, let's get fact stright: -Machine can't jurge your level because simple thing can me cool and over complex thing can sux, it can't messure on level stats, since it can have artistic opinion, it needs human help, this is the reason behind rates. -There over few k's of levels daily pomped to server over 50% is crap, you got 10k people online that want to play good levels, do you expect all of them get to new levels and start playing all levels there without "throwing up" after few levels? try to play new levels yourself, i bet you will run to cool pages and try to play lower levels then go there after first try -Even if you manage to survive playing new levels, there ton of levels published every minute, once you puvblish level its gonan be there high only for few minutes, who do you manage to get plays out of it? Republish spam? that would jam new levels list a lot, nto to mention it would increase number of levels appering there even more -You won't force any player to play what he don't want to play, game should give freedom of what player want to play and can only propose, they can make new levels as main thing or elsethry will drown in crap level and say that LBP sux overall. And again your level wont be played if it's not atractive on front, people wont waste there precises time to play something that looks obviusly boring. -As humans are the one who play your levels, there will be things that they like more then anything else, this born popularity and trends. Only way to solve this is to wipe out whole humanity and replace them with not thinking not invidual machinies. Sorry, but this is how human works -People don't have time to play everything and people will play same levels in same time, people won't bother go to deep hell of cool pages and you can't force them to do so, it's there time, there not enough space for levels. Asyou can see you won't avoid elements of marketing to be involved in to LBP, because perfect system will never exist because it's like thinking thta perpetum-mobile exists, nothing starts without initial push. What is funny about this whole thing is you guys asking "How do new levels get noticed?", yet saying that advertising is a big NO, NO, because this sounds like a absurd joke

2011-06-02 22:59:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Valid point. But from some of your previous posts, it seemed that you were more interested in completely changing the whole LBP community into a no advertising zone, this seems much more reasonable. Oh no, I know that could never happen. I could have been more clear but it was probably skewed by all my defense on the behalf of my opinions and hatred of LBPC not owning up to the fact that they are encouraging one of the biggest downfalls of LBP.

2011-06-02 23:02:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about. Good question, I'll let someone who knows everything answer who are you to say what LBP should be about? Well, there ya go :/ It seems like every one of your hypocritical posts contradicts the last. Tell me, what are you hoping to accomplish here? First it was whining about not getting plays on your level, then it was about pointing fingers at Mm,then somehow you found a way to blame the very site you are using to try to get plays, now it is about moving a search option. Through it all you have maintained 2 things though, a complete and udder lack of objective thinking and respect for others and their opinions. So how can you expect anyone to even consider your own? I would recommend cutting the fat. If you want something changed then post it, present the reasons, and be on your merry way. Everything past that is your loss.

2011-06-02 23:10:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

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Julesyjules. Another mega active lbpc member feeling the need to suck up to someone higher in the hierarchy. Thanks for showing your face and place in the foodchain created by lbpc but plz go network somewhere out of sight. Cymbol, u?r not fooling anybody Silver, For starters MM could do some repairments by not helping lbpc anymore to dictate the community. Then they could bring back the system as it was in the beginning of lbp1 and iron out bugs like the republishing trick. I know they said it was fixed in lbp1 but stephany ravens levels and centurions dragon levels were still being republished to the front page after they said that. Then they could loose the level linking stuff which was almost a deathblow to honest creaters. I?d like to discuss what else they could do but only when I feel that less people will post in between with advise like: go play another game, u just want fame, u should try advertisement and this is all nonsensical ranting. Of course I understand that people like stephany ravens, lemon and gravy, many lbpc celebs and other advertisement folk will not stop easily. LBPC wont go away by themselves either but that doesn?t mean u cant try to improve things. Where would Sony be if they just said after the hack, oh well let the place crawl with hackers, there?s no way to get rid of them all. Ungreth. I was entertained by your description of how lbp became a 1 player game. I agree till a certain extent. But where u totally lost me of course was when u said that my input was verbal diarrhea. It's a strong term and I like it however I wouldn?t use it in a way as if I came up with it. I?m sure I heard it before and since it's the funniest thing in your post, it kinda sticks out. So I would not use it anymore if I were you since it doesn?t suit you. You better stay with incontinent butthole, I think that?s your verbal level. I noticed that while I was writing this a few new comments have been added. One of them from littlebigdude who tries the hypocritical card. As said, I?ll sit aside for some time till this blows over so we can hopefully discuss ideas that are out there to improve the game

2011-06-02 23:24:00 Author: Unknown User

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God, even your insults are tedious.

2011-06-02 23:31:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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then somehow you found a way to blame the very site you are using to try to get plays, now it is about moving a search option. Uhm, obviously you don't know what you are talking about because I am saying it is WRONG to use this website to try and get plays. Thanks for pointing out my contradiction. I stand corrected.

2011-06-02 23:35:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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@CaskStrength, you talking like LBPC is only LBP fansite... theres lot of others, you might not guess but most of them getting lot of MM support, how do you think they get crown codes for contests from?

2011-06-02 23:49:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Ungreth. I was entertained by your description of how lbp became a 1 player game. I agree till a certain extent. But where u totally lost me of course was when u said that my input was verbal diarrhea. It’s a strong term and I like it however I wouldn’t use it in a way as if I came up with it. I’m sure I heard it before and since it’s the funniest thing in your post, it kinda sticks out. So I would not use it anymore if I were you since it doesn’t suit you. You better stay with incontinent butthole, I think that’s your verbal level. Why don't you stop using words of the English language as if you came up with them? Are you too inarticulate to invent your own unique vocabulary? What you should have said was "pluffwidge grimble snicky drizzlesnump" and I would have had much more respect for your ability to express yourself in an original manner...although the arrogant and abusive vitriol you have been spouting in this thread would remain verbal diarrhoea, regardless.

2011-06-03 00:04:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Clearly you know nothing about my point: LBPC is leeching the basic fundamentals of classic LBP gameplay. LBPC is a useless middleman who selfishly dictates what creators can and can't have (like plays). LBPC dictates who plays what levels? If so, why do we allow our members to post recommendations of other levels? And I assume by "selfishly" you mean "on behalf of the 1,908 active members of this site", yes? I suppose you are using the term broadly. Again, you also forget that everyone in the world with a PSN account has access to LBP.me, which allows you to pick and choose (http://www.littlebigplanet.com/en/news/article/introducing_lbp.me_the_new_community_portal/) which levels you'd like to play based on a variety of criteria. Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about. And if you dispute this, who are you to say what LBP should be about? As for misguided principle, as a mod on this website, you should look in the mirror. Here's what my principles tell me: plays are earned, not evenly distributed among the LBP populace. Those creators that get lots of plays worked hard, advertised, took feedback, improved their levels, and honed their craft to get where they are. You want the same without wanting to put in a single percent of the effort, because you feel you "shouldn't have to". You won't get very far in life with that kind of attitude. My accusations aren't a bit out there. Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean it's out there. Because when it's all said and done the truth remains: If LBPC didn't exist, LBPers would be forced to find new levels on their own to play. Like what, through tools like LBP.me and the in-game search engine? Or by hanging out with their friends and letting them pick and choose? Or perhaps on any of the other (http://www.littlebigland.com/) great (http://forums.littlebigplanet.com/) sites (http://wiki.lbpcentral.com/Fansites) and forums (http://www.littlebigplanetarium.com/) out there? Lol, no I don't think MM could get rid of advertisement. I think however, they could make it more difficult for advertisement to have such a deep impact on LBP. As I have said before, MM should not have the Newest Level filter option in such an unnoticed, out of the way spot. It's true that people are always interested in playing the best levels so they aren't wasting their time. But MM shouldn't discount the option of letting non-advertisers (and those who aren't interested in it) pick which levels are the best as well. This could be done by allowing the Newest Level filter button to be on the front page of search options, right next to MM Picks and Cool Pages. I present to you Exhibit A: http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/schm01978/exhibita-1.jpg

2011-06-03 00:09:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Cymbol, u?r not fooling anybody Haha, you caught me redhanded. I gave helpful feedback about the OP's level (which they seemed to be asking for), and suggested they do the same for my level in the same forum. How sneaky of me. I tried so hard to hide my true motives, but towering intellects such as yours see right through them. Curses! Haha, you don't know me if you think I take any of this personally. But, if you want to make character judgements on people you know nothing about, go ahead. I won't take that personally either.

2011-06-03 00:24:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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@ the message of the counteszz: and what a sad clique it is, counteszz makes a seductive comment and the male clique members thank her for it. It looks like all your slaves are still obaying you so you can go do your evil work somewhere else now. Go promote your levels or work out new cheap tactics to improve your fame. I'm not famous for any of my crappy levels...to the contrary. I'm famous for being a smart a@@...nothing more. I used to be angry just like you until I discovered margarita's. You need to laugh and lighten up a bit. That's what gets me through the day.

2011-06-03 00:50:00 Author: TheCountessZ Posts: 537

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You could put all the new levels on a huge billboard in Times Square and they still wouldn't get any plays. I'm sorry but it's impossible for thousands of new levels everyday to have any chance to get traction with out some kind of promoting going on elsewhere. In addition to all the great suggestions people had in here, I also suggest to get plays...you should make friends...not enemies. You used to be on my friend list CaskStrength, why you deleted me I have no idea. Was it because I wouldn't let you join me every 30 seconds? Your connection always made me lag, and it's impossible to get anything created with a laggy connection. I used to play your levels and give you feedback and ideas you could "steal"...remember? Why you're here attacking everyone else is confusing. Anyway, I suggest making friends because when an author hearts you what they play goes through everyone else LBP.me feed that has hearted them. Think about it, if I play your level almost 5,000 other players might see that I played it and hearted it. Wow. If SBG plays your level then maybe 75,000 others might see it. Friends are better than enemies It makes me sad to see you two in here being like this. P.S. Creekey I played your level and left feedback and a photo in the comments section. I'll save a review for when it's finished.

2011-06-03 01:20:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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Uhm, obviously you don't know what you are talking about because I am saying it is WRONG to use this website to try and get plays. We aren't using the website to get plays. We do use it to announce we have a new level done. If anybody wants to play it and give some feedback to help me improve my levels as well as point out what they loved, what the heck is so wrong with that? Isn't that what you are wanting? Getting some notice and a bit of feedback for your hard work on your new level? I offered a bit of help and a suggestion, but both you and your buddy don't seem interested. Which is totally fine. It just seems a waste of time to argue with us. Especially if what you feel is so wrong here is meeting, sharing info and levels, as well as getting to know some really cool and crazy creators from all over the world. At least I thought it was "Play, Create, Share", but again if you aren't interested in what this site might help you with, then maybe find another site or better yet another game. This one seems to make at least your buddy all cranky.

2011-06-03 01:39:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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O god here I go.. LBPC is a useless middleman who selfishly dictates what creators can and can't have (like plays). Why would I support such behavior by using F4F and advertising my level, when that is not what LBP should be about? That post has less sense than a pufferfish eating jell-o in the desert while skyping capitalism about how to dance. But for srs, you're missing the whole point of the F4F system.

2011-06-03 01:43:00 Author: anoken Posts: 1654

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Don't come to a public forum and inadvertantly bash my level by telling me things I need to fix and I won't tell you how to be an arrogant, pompous idiot. I saw that you played my level too, yet you left no feedback there. Why did you feel as though it was necessary to leave it here on this public forum? If I had any constructive negative feedback on your level, I would have done it the proper way, by leaving it in your comments after I played it. Clearly I angered you with my opinion, but don't worry, it isn't as if my ONE sad face out of all the other dozens of sad and happy faces will ruin or even dent your reputation. Thanks. Wait wait wait, how is leaving a comment on LBP any less public than here at LBPC? If anything, what CYMBOL posted would have been viewed by less people here than if he'd posted in your comments section. As for him inadvertently bashing your level, if that's how you want to see it instead of constructive feedback then that's your own loss. Tbh, after reading through most of your and CaskStrength's posts, you both seem to be putting wild spins on what everyone is saying so it suits your own thinking. By the looks of it you're both set in your ways and aren't willing to look at things from another perspective, which imo makes trying to reason/argue/help you a pointless effort.

2011-06-03 02:56:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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You won't get very far in life with that kind of attitude. Really, you mean I will not get far enough in life to monitor random people and their meaningless arguments on some internet chat board like you? At least I thought it was "Play, Create, Share" Me too. Not "Play, Create, Share, Then Go Online To Advertise Your Level So Someone Will Play It" If anything, what CYMBOL posted would have been viewed by less people here than if he'd posted in your comments section. Haha obviously you haven't seen how little plays I have.

2011-06-03 03:19:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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why you deleted me I have no idea. Was it because I wouldn't let you join me every 30 seconds? Your connection always made me lag, and it's impossible to get anything created with a laggy connection. I used to play your levels and give you feedback and ideas you could "steal"...remember? I've played with you a couple of times because i knew u through a buddy. I never stole anyones ideas. I think you should make that more clear in your post. I only joked about it. I've sent u several invites on a few occasions and I never did it in a stalking manner. I only did it to tease and made that perfectly clear in the messages I sent you. I think you shouldnt try to make me look bad here because I dont deserve it and u know it. I dont wanna spend my time to go into this in more detail now but maybe later.

2011-06-03 03:26:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yeah, man that is how it is for me! I wish our levels got played more! I'm a good unknown creator and am proud of what i create!

2011-06-03 03:28:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yeah, man that is how it is for me! I wish our levels got played more! I'm a good unknown creator and am proud of what i create! Umm one of your levels has 1,226 plays. Why the heck are you complaining? My only level on Ps3 has 116 plays. You don't see me complaining.

2011-06-03 03:42:00 Author: anoken Posts: 1654

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*looks at arguements* *twitches at the boiling fury of the posters* Ugh, nevermind, I won't post, reasoning with these loafs of bread won't do me good... *walks away from computer*

2011-06-03 03:49:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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Me too. Not "Play, Create, Share, Then Go Online To Advertise Your Level So Someone Will Play It" Interesting.. so you feel letting your friends know you posted a level as cheating a bit? Hmmm... Well, I guess if you wish to be a purist and only use what Mm creates as your marketing, yeah you are leaving things up to chance quite a bit. Especially considering the thousands that are constantly being published daily. To me, I just don't see it as cheating. ..this is just a site I have been on for quite awhile, several people know me and chat regardless of levels. ..and when we do, we post it so everyone one knows. Doesn't really guarantee you squat, but especially when not many know of you, in my opinion it helps. Especially if you really want feedback to help you improve. ..and kinda fun sharing things here with your mates. At least that is how I look at it. Though if you wish not to use the tools here, I can respect that. I just don't understand why you can't respect what we are trying to do for any and all our members all while seemingly wanting what we can help you with. Not sure if there is one, but maybe a search for the least plays might be helpful to add to Mm's search list. Or levels under 50 plays? That might be helpful for those that want to be Good Samaritans and help others out. I think there is actually a pin for playing so many levels when there is only like 5 or 10 plays. So Mm sorta means well, but they do lose out on big picture and not thinking what happens when there is such a barrage of levels. ..that is why I feel LBPC can be so helpful to really talented creators that are a bit under the radar. We want to know them. We love seeing someone new blow us away. Seriously!! Anyway.. good luck!

2011-06-03 04:19:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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I couldn't agree more with everyone here. I have some pretty good levels that need to be played. Its really not fair. And I also agree that most of the new levels are trash. Theyre either level just thrown together in 5 minutes or a level full of story items. All I have to say is please give my levels a try.

2011-06-03 07:29:00 Author: donta133 Posts: 182

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I couldn't agree more with everyone here. I have some pretty good levels that need to be played. Its really not fair. And I also agree that most of the new levels are trash. Theyre either level just thrown together in 5 minutes or a level full of story items. All I have to say is please give my levels a try. I think when you initially see a new level, it's hard to know whether it's been put together in 5 mins or if the creator has spent a lot of time on it. For example, people may think that my checkers level that I posted a few weeks ago will just be a case of 'created a checkered board, plonk some pieces on, and say "here you go, play checkers" ', when in fact, it took a very long time to make. The logic involved was way more complicated than I expected. I spent ages trying to get it working how it should, there's no honour rules etc, it plays how checkers should actually played (FYI, checkers was a popular local multiplayer game before the invention of computers ). I have 10 plays in total!

2011-06-03 07:55:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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Me too. Not "Play, Create, Share, Then Go Online To Advertise Your Level So Someone Will Play It" Ahem... Right ok, may i just point out one thing? No? Shame: Isn't Share the SAME as advertising? Take McDonalds for example: They advertise the new "American burger", but surely that's just sharing their product with others? IMO, this is getting ridiculously out of hand, you're getting sulky because of Mm and that fact you dont have the ability to use the 'Recommendations' the 'Level Showcase' and anything else to your advantage!!! Man, i am so tired, i think i might lie down...

2011-06-03 08:53:00 Author: TheLittleSoAndSo Posts: 181

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I couldn't agree more with everyone here. I have some pretty good levels that need to be played. Its really not fair. And I also agree that most of the new levels are trash. Theyre either level just thrown together in 5 minutes or a level full of story items. All I have to say is please give my levels a try. I think when you initially see a new level, it's hard to know whether it's been put together in 5 mins or if the creator has spent a lot of time on it. For example, people may think that my checkers level that I posted a few weeks ago will just be a case of 'created a checkered board, plonk some pieces on, and say "here you go, play checkers" ', when in fact, it took a very long time to make. The logic involved was way more complicated than I expected. I spent ages trying to get it working how it should, there's no honour rules etc, it plays how checkers should actually played (FYI, checkers was a popular local multiplayer game before the invention of computers ). I have 10 plays in total! Question.. I see you both started F4F threads. How many OTHER F4F levels in the showcase have either of you gone and played and left constructive feedback? The reason I ask is many new members make this mistake quite a bit. That being, if you are just waiting for others to play them, you are not taking advantage of the F4F system at all. You really need to be proactive and go play other F4F levels, leave constructive detailed feedback. Don't just say, "wow.. I like your level". Seriously put some effort into it. Give them the kind of feedback that you are wanting. Point out the positives, point out any issues, and be really helpful. Once complete, then tell them which of your F4F levels you want to play to honor their F4F. Seriously folks.. it works if you just network and use the system to your advantage. Waiting for others to play your levels, especially if you are new here, is not going to work as well. There are some exceptions.. a catchy level name, a great badge, a very cool detailed overview of your level followed by some awesome screen shots of your level also really helps show off your level. ...but by being proactive, you will do much better. Some may say it is evil, but it is basically marketing. Sorta like an ad on ebay or even a menu in a restaurant. A great pic and a great description will do better to entice others to play better than a lame pic and a lame description of the exact same thing. Feel free to take a look at a few of my level threads for some ideas or contact me if you have any questions and good luck!

2011-06-03 08:55:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Question.. I see you both started F4F threads. How many OTHER F4F levels in the showcase have either of you gone and played and left constructive feedback? The reason I ask is many new members make this mistake quite a bit. That being, if you are just waiting for others to play them, you are not taking advantage of the F4F system at all. You really need to be proactive and go play other F4F levels, leave constructive detailed feedback. Don't just say, "wow.. I like your level". Seriously put some effort into it. Give them the kind of feedback that you are wanting. Point out the positives, point out any issues, and be really helpful. Once complete, then tell them which of your F4F levels you want to play to honor their F4F. Seriously folks.. it works if you just network and use the system to your advantage. Waiting for others to play your levels, especially if you are new here, is not going to work as well. There are some exceptions.. a catchy level name, a great badge, a very cool detailed overview of your level followed by some awesome screen shots of your level also really helps show off your level. ...but by being proactive, you will do much better. Some may say it is evil, but it is basically marketing. Sorta like an ad on ebay or even a menu in a restaurant. A great pic and a great description will do better to entice others to play better than a lame pic and a lame description of the exact same thing. Feel free to take a look at a few of my level threads for some ideas or contact me if you have any questions and good luck! Yeah, I visited a few other threads and left constructive feedback. I didn't always get any back. Some people gave me some back, and I understand that folk might just have not gotten round to playing my level yet. In fact, one of the people who replied in my thread, I've yet give feedback to his level, it's still in my ever-expanding queue (I'm currently busy either a) making my new level or b) playing LA Noire). I'll play his level tonight actually. I think I did make the mistake of waiting until the next morning to post my levels on here, I think I'm gonna get my next F4F thread posted straight away. With regards to the catchy title.... that's one thing I struggle with. But I've put enough description for my levels thus far.

2011-06-03 10:03:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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Failed movie director stands before a cinema billboard poster of James Cameron's Avatar and shouts "Cameron, you shameless self promoter! Nobody is watching my low key movie that I never bothered to promote because they're all watching your worthless crap instead!? You should not be allowed to advertise your movies in such a way! Why don't you go bury your head in a hole somewhere and let the movie goers decide what they want to watch!?" Sound ridiculous? Yeah, well that's how you all sound with your vitriolic ranting about the "evil" LBPC and it's top tier creators promoting themselves here. Have any of you people complaining about "shameless self-promoters" like comphermc and jww ever actually played their levels? If not, then maybe you should. These guys are extremely talented and experienced creators who you could learn something from. Simple concept really. Learn from the pros, step up your game, be proactive in promoting your own work and thus increase the number of plays you get on your own levels...or just throw abuse at the forum's veterans (who have put a lot of effort into helping new creators improve themselves over the years) and look like a jerk doing it. Your choice.

2011-06-03 12:10:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Failed movie director stands before a cinema billboard poster of James Cameron's Avatar and shouts "Cameron, you shameless self promoter! Nobody is watching my low key movie that I never bothered to promote because they're all watching your worthless crap instead!? You should not be allowed to advertise your movies in such a way! Why don't you go bury your head in a hole somewhere and let the movie goers decide what they want to watch!?" Sound ridiculous? Yeah, well that's how you all sound with your vitriolic ranting about the "evil" LBPC and it's top tier creators promoting themselves here. Have any of you people complaining about "shameless self-promoters" like comphermc and jww ever actually played their levels? If not, then maybe you should. These guys are extremely talented and experienced creators who you could learn something from. Simple concept really. Learn from the pros, step up your game, be proactive in promoting your own work and thus increase the number of plays you get on your own levels...or just throw abuse at the forum's veterans (who have put a lot of effort into helping new creators improve themselves over the years) and look like a jerk doing it. Your choice. Aye, these "celeb creators" get so far because they work hard on their levels, first and foremost. Once they've gotten a foothold into the game, and have gained few fans, the fans will play any level they make. Look at the level comphermc made for his data transfer tutorial: http://lbp.me/v/ywf89z It's still getting plays even though he specifically says it's not a real level. IMO this reflects badly on the people who play it (they obviously don't read the description, just see the creators name), but it reflects well on the creator. It shows he's reached such a stage where people are playing his flippin' test levels!! It's like.... if Danny Boyle released a film with a bloke literally staring at a wall for 90 mins, people would still flock to see it BTW, is anyone else having a problem with the message box? It keeps scrolling up for me.

2011-06-03 12:53:00 Author: Ali_Star Posts: 4085

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It is shameful self promotion to advertise your levels. Like when you publish a level, it becomes visible both in game and on LBP.me. Shameless, to put something out there and have people being able to see that it exists, so that they can make an informed choice about whether they want to see it or not... This is where I can claim the ultimate moral highground, because I publish hardly anything. Loads of my stuff is completely unadvertised - hell, I won't even tell people it's done... You have to guess, and if you decide you wanna find out if there is something new of mine to play, you have to get your *** to Sweden, break into my flat and boot up LBP on my playstation, then hunt around the "Unnamed Level" patches on my moon. You can then leave feedback on a scrap of paper on my desk if you wish. That's the purist way - that's the morally unobjectionable way to share in LBP, because god knows that telling people that you have stuff published is soooo selfish... The level promotion on this site (and many other areas - help, tutorials, etc.) has, at it's core, always been an enhanced way to participate in the Share aspect of the LBP experience. People come to the forums to get more involved in the community than you possibly can in-game. So yes, people promote share their levels, and share their feedback on other peoples' levels, and share expertise in the form of tutorials and answering each other's Help threads... Yes, some people, through sharing in this manner, have become well known in the microcommunity of LBPC. So what? And so what if that's not how you want to play the game.... If you choose that you don't want to interact with others in that way, why does it have to be the case that other people enjoying that kind of interaction is a bad thing? If you think that posting a thread to get feedback for a level you published is unfair and shameful self-promotion then you are a moron. Shameful self-promotion is the kind of crap that pervades the in-game feedback system - "ply mah lvl plz!" - which, coincidentally, is one of the main reasons why people use the forums for getting feedback - because getting anything useful in-game is practically impossible. And that's kinda what people are missing, the promotional aspect of the level showcase is, in the eyes of those of us who are veterans of the site, secondary to it's use as a way to grow as a designer. Most of us came to this site because we were having fun making stuff in LBP, but wanted to become better. So we shared our ideas on how to make LBP levels, how to use the tools, how to tame the thermo, how to use stickers in inventive ways to enhance visuals, lighting techniques, personal philosophies on game design and what makes compelling gameplay, how to engage the player and communicate with them. We were a bunch of amateurs, enthusiastic and inexperienced, but many of us had talents in one area or another and the LBPC community worked together to feed off of each other's skills and knowledge so that each individual could grow and become a better creator... And everyone has always been welcome to join in that exchange, or join in other, similar, exchanges on other sites. No one is saying you have to, but no on is stopping you, and no one here is making anything unfair. That's what the F4F system is about... It's not about control or dominance (and if they were there is no way this site could exert as much power as people are claiming - being able to determine who can and can't have plays??? WTF?), and the conspiracy theories being spouted by certain members here would be laughable if they weren't so tragically pathetic.

2011-06-03 13:48:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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BTW, is anyone else having a problem with the message box? It keeps scrolling up for me. I used to have that problem when I used IE, maybe try using Firefox if you're not already. Otherwise just press the little down arrows at the right of the message box, they'll increase the size so there's no scrolling needed.

2011-06-03 13:48:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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heck even i found a niche... Edit: Lost Ages V coming soon!!

2011-06-03 15:41:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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Yeah, I visited a few other threads and left constructive feedback. I didn't always get any back. Some people gave me some back, and I understand that folk might just have not gotten round to playing my level yet. In fact, one of the people who replied in my thread, I've yet give feedback to his level, it's still in my ever-expanding queue (I'm currently busy either a) making my new level or b) playing LA Noire). I'll play his level tonight actually. I think I did make the mistake of waiting until the next morning to post my levels on here, I think I'm gonna get my next F4F thread posted straight away. With regards to the catchy title.... that's one thing I struggle with. But I've put enough description for my levels thus far. Yeah... the unfortunate thing is it takes awhile. Just for you to play a level and leave a critique can take quite a bit of time, same for the other person, especially with school, work and those other things that get in the way of LBP. lol I figure it is a 60 - 80% return rate. Possibly a bit more if you nicely remind them after a time. The coolest thing is after a time here on the site, you build up some friends that you all enjoy playing each others levels and helping each other out. ..and again to those that think this is all evil, that is all this is.. Just making friends and helping each other with their levels in a nice organized fashion. Nothing evil to stop others from getting plays. They are all welcome here. I mean I wish it could be a bit easier outside in the raw game to insure that you get at least a few plays. Like maybe a "I haz a sad" list which lists folks with less than 50 plays. I would be all for it. People could team up and help eliminate the hungry so to speak. It would be awesome! As far as when to post your thread. I like to have my thread just about ready to go before I publish and do them back to back. First off, that way I remember! ..and then it is kinda like opening night or something.. minus champagne and fancy clothes. Concerning catchy titles, never be afraid to post in the Ideas and Projects forum for some ideas. I love helping creators come up with cool names for their levels. You start bouncing ideas off a few others and you can get some great ones. ....and that is the same title I use in the Level Showcase. For example don't have a level called "M3 - Mayhem Madness and Monkeys" and call your level thread "Play my cool level". Let it rest on it's own merits. Now nothing wrong with adding a - with some other stuff like - One Player Only etc.. I am just meaning if you get a great level name, show it off! It's branding, just like a car name. The Badge, the level, the name should all be a cohesive wad o' goo that folks remember and can relate to. ..any out there with questions.. please feel free to ask. That is what we are here for. We like to help other creators.

2011-06-03 15:48:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Some celebs in here seem to have a hard time figuering out at which point self promotion becomes shameful. Maybe my opinion can help because according to them it goes from publishing levels to making a movie and I think its not necessary to be so confused. I?m pretty sure that when u ask yourself before you start republishing or just ordinarily publishing a level if what you?re about to do is shameful that the warning signs will only show up when you consider the first option. No normal person will have trouble with just publishing a level rtm223. I?m pretty sure that you only said so to defend your celeb buddies by trying to make this argument harder then it needs to be. Why am I so sure that it will make you feel shameful? Because I've seen people feel ashamed for doing so long enough now to know that it's true. You in here all know that it's true too, that?s why those of you who did it are throwing all kinds of dirt around to avoid just admitting the obvious truth. I came across the first unfair self promotion technique (republishing) at the moment it all started. I guess it was about 6 months after the release of lbp1. A buddy of mine told me about it to explain why certain sub standard levels kept rising higher and higher. I then explained it to another buddy of mine called Lemon and Gravy (he called himself Ryan then). He started using it for a level (a crappy one too that I made with him XD) and rocketeerd it upto 500.000 plays or so. He never understood why I didn?t do so with my levels. I told him over and over how shameful it was. However, he did it with more crappy levels and I believe he was the first one to cover the earth in his crappy levels. Then people like Stephany Ravens took over that annoying behaviour. I?m sure everyone here has noticed this phenomenon and that this site has had plenty of topics about how disgusted everyone was with Lemon and Gravy and Stephany Ravens. But, and here comes the funny twist, a lot of the people on this site (almost every celeb included) chose to start doing the exact same thing. I know this because there is no way that you can get a few thousand plays without self promotion. I've seen celebs publish test levels that they didn?t promote which got the same measily 10 plays as any other person gets when (s)he just puplishes his/her level. So that exact shameful behaviour, that angerd so many people on this site and on LBP is the behaviour addapted by every celeb (maybe 1 or 2 excluded). And now don't try to convince me that what Lemon and Stephany did wasn?t shameful cause they were like the most hated people on LBP and knew that themselves. I've seen a lot of players struggle with the thought if they should promote their levels or live with the 10 plays and 1 decent comment. They struggled because they thought it was shameful too. A few of them couldn?t accept the 10 plays and started republishing, the rest chose not to, for 1 simple reason, because it's shameful. They could easily press the publish button over and over to go from 1 comment on their level to maybe a thousand but they didn?t do that. One of those persons, mentioned earlier, is Boia. This guy is more talented then everyone in this thread exept Elvenbane maybe. If you doubt this, go play his levels in LBP1 (I?m not sure if he restored them for LBP2). Advertisement you say? Yeah but in the honest way. This doesn?t give me a hard time thinking about wether my behaviour was respectable or not. Some might think I?m trying to promote myself with my messages on this website but don't bother. I haven?t published anything in lbp2, I didn?t restore my levels from LBP1. They look like **** so I?m not looking for comments on them like, u should really fix this or that ugly part. The only reason I?m here is to point the finger at what is ruining LBP so let?s continue that talk. But before I do, I?ll restate why that is of interest to me. I would like a game that simulates the world, hopefully lbp can grow into that by expanding its physical setup with chemistry, evolution, whatever, I hope you get that picture. I think LBP has the right setup for that and therefore has the most potential to become like that. And I don't want it to be dictated by the select LBP celeb clique. So back to the advertisement talk. Knowing the defence mechanisms of the active lbpc members I need to explain now what republishing has to do with advertisement and self promotion. I will but don't blame me for this being a tedious job. The advertisements through self promotion on this site has the same outside influence on LBP as republishing. People who choose not to do so or people that simply don't know about the influence this website has will spend 100 hours or so in making a level that?s as fun as they can come up with only to see it being totally ignored and left for dead. Hell, I played a LOT of lbp and even I didn?t realise the network among the celebs was so strong till Creekey started this thread. It looks as if almost every celeb came flying from the bees nest towards this thread to defend lbpc and their clique. Neither did I know that most of the crowns have been handed out for lbpc community efforts. They had allways been introduced as if it were something to give you bragging rights about your creation skills. So even though u said there was no evidence for lbpc favouring certain creaters comphermc, thanks for providing such convincing evidence yourself. So aside from wondering how it would be possible to reduce the choking grip from lbpc and the celeb clique don't you people think it would be fair if those people who don't advertise themselves would get a bit more spotlight casted their way?

2011-06-03 16:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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*Insert Tediously long post* Tbh you kinda lost me there.... but last time I checked promoting on LBPC does not have the same effect as republishing... Random Junk Time: Do YOU see a bunch of terribad levels on the cool pages here? I don't really. Also, really, do you think these "celebs" feel ashamed of amazing people with their fun levels and such? The people here aren't just some random n00bs. If they were I would be on another site. I know that some levels are overlooked, but these guys are great creators.... The hidden gems are like protostars. They have nuclear fusion starting, but they still need the key components to make em shine. idk about you, but without advertising, the star won't shine to it's fullest. I know the effects of advertising from experience. Back in LBP1 when I was still young and foolish, I helped a friend advertise a level and the level got 2000 plays. Not too shaby really. Then I tried republishing a level. It got a hundred something plays. In LBP2, I did NO advertising. Just used all that magic creator stuff. I currently have a good couple hundred plays. I think really advertising on LBP is bad since it clutters up comment boards. I can see where your coming from. But promoting levels here on LBPC actually gives feedback and recognition from great people here. If you still don't believe us Centralians, try F4F yourself and you'll see that it is an excellent tool for creators. Not some H4H crap. Also, I'm sorry, but would you be ashamed to advertise a level you put all your heart and soul into?

2011-06-03 16:48:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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Ehhh this turns in to another Blander_82 like thread ^^" Stephany Ravens annoyed people by taking control over cool pages and making troll levels(photo spam level, levels that crash console), so it's her own fault that people don't like her even outside LBPC btw.... besides she actually love being hated

2011-06-03 16:49:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Stephany Ravens annoyed people by taking control over cool pages and making troll levels(photo spam level, levels that crash console), so it's her own fault that people don't like her even outside LBPC btw.... besides she actually love being hated Yeah, she's the troll of LBP. I once loved her, but when I realized the truth of her levels, I (sorry) ABSOLUTELY DISPISED her. I feel absolutely disgusted that you'd compare us (or them) with her, Cask.

2011-06-03 16:57:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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Wow, what's with all the rage threads lately!? Is Mm giving out a new secret pin for these? Seems to me that the complainers have their cause and effect mixed up a little. Ever since the release of LBP1 there has been a steady stream of crappy levels, vastly outnumbering the decent ones (for one, because they take no time at all to make). Furthermore, the only way to find the decent ones is via Cool Levels, Highest Ratings and Most Hearts, which are basically popularity votes that make the already popular more popular. Most people don't have the time or patience to sift through all the crap to find the few decent ones. They want to spend their game time playing good levels. So they flocked together on fan sites like this one to find decent levels and exchange tech. So you see, LBPC is just one of the ways people work around the problems of LBP. It's not the cause, but the effect. Compare sites like LBPC to the internet directories you had before Google appeared. In those days, search engines weren't able to properly judge the relevance of a page and gave bad results. So sites like Yahoo had directories which listed good sites on a number of topics. They didn't have every good page in existance, but at least they got you something usable. And as a site owner you could complain it wasn't fair, or you could get yourself in the directory. Guess which got the most visits. What really needs to happen for us is for someone to build the Google of LBP. But enough serious talk. Now that we've all been enlightened I'd like to get back to that amusing time line: I've been making levels since the start of lbp1 and let me ?paint a lil timeline for you? 700 plays, 600 plays, 800 plays, 500 plays, republishing appeared, 200 plays, 100 plays, lbpc got famous, 20 plays, 10 plays, 0 plays, 0 plays, 0 plays. Out of curiosity: When did LBPC get famous? And how can you write down this timeline and blame LBPC in stead of republishing for the decline? Never mind the fact that you could put the election of Obama in there or whatever, to "prove" just about any theory you'd like.

2011-06-03 17:16:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I’m pretty sure that when u ask yourself before you start republishing or just ordinarily publishing a level if what you’re about to do is shameful that the warning signs will only show up when you consider the first option. No normal person will have trouble with just publishing a level rtm223. I’m pretty sure that you only said so to defend your celeb buddies by trying to make this argument harder then it needs to be. It was a joke... Apparently I forgot my sarcasm smiley I actually agree with you on the republishing thing, it's pretty pathetic and the primary reason why it annoyed me was that it turned the whole community into a shouting match - to wit, whoever spent the most time republishing would have the highest visibility. I wouldn't especially begrudge someone for doing it, more that I feel it's a little bit sad that so many did. The truth is though that at the time, if you didn't shout, you'd be shouted down by everyone who was shouting... So it was a difficult thing for many creators to deal with and a fundamental issue with the cool pages system. Very few people have the same luxury as I do of not really wanting high exposure. However, you're completely wrong when you say that: The advertisements through self promotion on this site has the same outside influence on LBP as republishing. Quantify? Or even give a case study? Some kind of evidence to back that up. You can't just spew out obvious nonsense and expect people to take you seriously. A thread here for your level will reach 1000 people at absolute maximum - spamming the cool pages has the potential to reach 2 orders of magnitude more. That's maths, and you can't argue with maths For further evidence, consider: plenty of people post levels here and still struggle to get plays. Plenty of people who get spotlighted here, struggle to get plays. On the other hand, with the republshing you are pretty much guaranteed to get plays, due to massively increased visibility. There is also the fact that the F4F system encourages people to interact and help each other, which is fundamentally a nice thing and sometihng that genuinely doesn't work properly in the in-game comments / reviews section. On the other hand, republishing is a purely selfish act akin to running around with a megaphone screaming "look at ME!!!" - it has no aspect that is non-selfish. People who choose not to do so or people that simply don’t know about the influence this website has And what exactly is that influence you speak of? As I said, even spotlighted levels, the biggest boost this site is capable of giving, regularly end up with less than a couple hundred plays, which is nothing compared to the amount of exposure plenty of people manage by simply entitling their level "ZOMG 500 free prizes". This amazing level of influence is completely fictional and that's not because I'm "defending LBPC", I too barely ever post here and stepped away from the site because I don't like what it has become... If you bothered to check your facts, you'd notice that most of the "celebs" that you are pointing your finger at, have largely detached themselves from the site and are distinctly inactive... we still lurk, but that's about it. But I get the impression facts are more of an annoyance to you, than something you might base your opinions on. I didn’t realise the network among the celebs was so strong till Creekey started this thread. Many of us have met IRL, many of us have worked together, we keep in touch, we're friends. I assume you have friends too, right? Also, we actually know a little from the inside and that there is no conspiracy, there is no vying for control, there is no interest in knocking others down - certainly there is not the latter. Call it a "clique" if you like, but that doesn't prove anything but your own ignorance and pig-headedness. most of the crowns have been handed out for lbpc community efforts Pretty sure this one is nonsense too. LBPC has given out less crowns than many fansites who are 1/10th of the size. So aside from wondering how it would be possible to reduce the choking grip from lbpc and the celeb clique don’t you people think it would be fair if those people who don’t advertise themselves would get a bit more spotlight casted their way? OK, as far as I'm can tell, you seem to be saying that doing anything other than publishing your level and forgetting about it is gaining an "unfair advantage" and that's why LBPC is bad? Sorry if I've misinterpreted but that seems to be what you are suggesting. OK, so firstly, yes, the playing field is unfair. But that has nothing to do with LBPC and the select few people you point the finger at. So, numbered retorts: It's a cliche, but a good one: life's not fair, it'd be lovely if it was, but it isn't. It has far more to do with the mentality of the community in general. For starters, there are a hell of a lot of people publishing levels and the vast majority of them want attention. Many of them want as much attention as possible. So they will do things to try and gain that attention, be it leveraging loopholes in the system to their advantage, spamming comments everywhere, asking their PSN friends to boost their levels.. whatever. All of that would continue to go on with or without LBPC. Realistically, most of what you see on the cool pages is completely unrelated to LBPC, has not been boosted by the site and is not even produced by people who have membership of the site. If LBPC is so powerful, why does it not use that power to crush the heretics who deign to publish on the servers without the fabled LBPC sticker? hint: because that power doesn't exist If people don't advertise themselves, exactly how do you think that they are supposed to get noticed at all? There are thousands upon thousands of levels being published and the practicality of the situation is that it's easy to get lost in the sheer volume. As Rogar says, you have cause and effect all kinds of mixed up. It would be interesting to see you produce some real evidence to actually support your theories that LBPC is choking the game, or maybe a bit of proper analysis, rather than just wild assertions with paper-thin reasoning behind them.

2011-06-03 17:34:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I?m pretty sure that when u ask yourself before you start republishing... Well.. first off the republishing trick doesn't even work anymore, so I really have no clue why you keep bringing up "old evil". I've only republished the past year or so to make some changes and fix issues that have come up. ..but yeah, there were some that were republishing like 20 times a minutes for obscene amounts of time back before it was shut down completely. Why am I so sure that it will make you feel shameful? Because I've seen people feel ashamed for doing so long enough now to know that it's true. You in here all know that it's true too, that?s why those of you who did it are throwing all kinds of dirt around to avoid just admitting the obvious truth. I feel ashamed alright.. so much so I am munching on a gooey cheesy Arby's Roast Beef sandwich right now. I seriously have no idea what you are so disgusted about now. I mean if I was spamming a ton of levels, like all of them in tag team style like Ravens did, yeah... I would be horribly ashamed of myself and agree with you 1000 percent, but I've never done that. Heck.. it takes me some 3 to 6 months to even finish a level. I really don't even have that many levels! Kinda hard to take over the planet that way doncha think? In fact quite a few players forget about me during my downtime. lol The only reason I as well as others came into this thread is to offer some advice on how to... oh what was the title again.. "How do new levels get noticed" and attempt to correct you as well as offer some advice to do just that. However you feel that route is evil and stopping others from getting any plays. Again.. we are just trying to help you get some feedback which is again what you want. If you find it disgusting.. So be it! Don't do it! No problem!! lol ..but walking into here and condemning what we feel is being helpful and simply community spirit, is a bit like visiting Peru and campaigning for them to stop cooking guinea pigs. You're not going to get a lot of support.. They seriously love the stuff!! ..so I guess, don't knock it till you tried it?

2011-06-03 17:44:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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CackStrenghth how can you blame the LBPC community for your decline in plays? To be honest if LBPC was having an effect on the plays of your levels it would have an effect on everyones levels. So let me paint you a lil timeline-20 plays, 20 plays, 20 plays. The point is 20 plays is the approx number of plays I get a level so it isnt affecting everyone hence it isnt affecting you. And to finish if you blame the LBPC community for this fall in plays why did you even join LBPC.

2011-06-03 17:49:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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"Play, Create, Share" Let's talk about what MM is saying with the last word, "Share". Obviously these words are describing the game, and what can be achieved within the game by the tools they have given us. They aren't describing what can be done on LBPC, any other website, or dishonest tactic. I see many people guilty of manipulating the word "share" around to suit your own selfish personal gain. Well, if "Share" means "advertising", then it must mean "republishing" too. So really, these terms are synonymous, if you are using "Share" out of the context in which MM is using to describe their game. I know some of you can't keep up so I'll remind you - their game. Not wesbites. Not ways to exploit the weaknesses in LBPs construction. If you still don't understand I will break it down for you. Republishing a level takes plays away from other levels by grabbing peoples attention over and over. Advertising a level takes plays away from other levels by grabbing peoples attention over and over. Both methods are as if to say, "play my level, it deserves more plays that can be garnered from the methods that LBP have provided". You're putting your levels ahead of everyone elses in both instances. Many of you have said that all you really need is a crafty level badge, neat title, and well-wirtten description. You were mistaken, you should have said, "All that you should need is a crafty level badge, neat title, and well-written description, but thats not how it works." You have proved that it doesn't work by defending advertising so vehemently. Am I against advertising altogether? No. I believe there are levels of good and bad in any sort of advertising. Now pay attention, I might lose you here: A good example of dishonorable advertising is when any person (or group) advertises to undermine - whether they realize it is undermining or not - any other (person or group). In this instance, LBPC and the fame club are undermining the community of non-promoting lbpers. Just because you do this advertising with out any malicious intentions towards all the non-promoting lbpers, doesn't make what you do right. Regardless of good or bad intentions, the effect has still occurred negatively on the LBP community as a whole. I hope I made it easier - by breaking up my sentences - for you guys to quote what I've said in order to sling more insults at me. Also, I am more than willing to provide you with other instances in which advertising can be done with the best of intentions but cause the worst of effects.

2011-06-03 17:59:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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Oh for goodness sake. By advertising it just shows you took the liberty to get your level advertised. Movie directors dont simply say "Hey lets not advertize, that would steal other peoples movie popularity" Mm said share indicating levels objects etc. Im not trying to be mean but...its just that (grunt) I hope you know what I mean.

2011-06-03 18:05:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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CaskStrength, aside from a copyable teleporter system that I gave away as a gift to the community, I have two LBP2 levels. I have never republished them except for rare post-edit circumstances, and I have never promoted them here or on any other website. I never even sent private messages to my friends saying "play my level". One of these levels has 610 plays right now, the other has 746. It's not thousands of plays, but it would certainly be enough to satisfy most creators that their efforts hadn't gone to waste. So going with your theory that creators wouldn't get more than 10 plays without republishing and self promotion, how do you figure I got that many plays? Also, you suggest that republishing and advertising are unfair practices. How so, when every single creator out there has the same opportunity to republish or promote their level as the next guy? You made a choice not to do these things, as did I. You're not in some disadvantaged position where Mm have placed a special "one-time publish only" stipulation on you, and you clearly have internet access. The only thing that's preventing you from getting your levels noticed is you and your self-righteous **** the system attitude. And I'd like to point out some hard facts about some of the creators who you have accused of "selfishness"... Comph recieved his crown for working on the LBPC logic pack which was designed purely to help other creators who were struggling with logic to improve their levels. I was one of thousands of creators who was able to produce gameplay in my levels that I would never have been able to achieve without access to these tools. So thanks comph, and everyone else who selflessly gave their time and imparted their know-how to help others...your contibution to the community is much appreciated. Jww and CountessZ have spent countless long hours of their personal time working on the community spotlights to help other creators get some recognition for their work. They don't get paid for this, yet they often come home after a long day's work to do this in their spare time. So thanks jww and Countess...your contribution to the community is also much appreciated. So CaskStrength...what have you done to contribute to the community? Aside from coming here to run people down? Absolutely **** all, that's what. So why don't you giddy up that high horse you're on and get the hell out of LBPC, because I think I speak for the majority when I say that you have just made yourself very unwelcome here.

2011-06-03 18:06:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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"Play, Create, Share" Let's talk about what MM is saying with the last word, "Share". Obviously these words are describing the game, and what can be achieved within the game by the tools they have given us. They aren't describing what can be done on LBPC or any other website. I see many people guilty of manipulating the word "share" around to suit your own selfish personal gain. Well, if "Share" means "advertising", then it must mean "republishing" too. So really, these terms are synonymous, if you are using "Share" out of the context in which MM is using to describe their game. I know some of you can't keep up so I'll remind you - their game. Not wesbites. I'm willing to bet everything I own that the guys at MM wouldn't agree with you there - they love the fact that the community is so passionate and go out of our way to promote their game in all the many ways that we do, be it fansites, the fan art that lines their office walls, any of that metagame stuff is things that they like. You might not like it, but don't project your own personal dislike onto MM and pretend that it in some way makes you correct. A good example of dishonorable advertising is when any person (or group) advertises to undermine - whether they realize it is undermining or not - any other (person or group). In this instance, LBPC and the fame club are undermining the community of non-promoting lbpers. Just because you do this advertising with out any malicious intentions towards all the non-promoting lbpers, doesn't make what you do right. Regardless of good or bad intentions, the effect has still occurred negatively on the LBP community as a whole. numbered retorts: It's a cliche, but a good one: life's not fair, it'd be lovely if it was, but it isn't. It has far more to do with the mentality of the community in general. For starters, there are a hell of a lot of people publishing levels and the vast majority of them want attention. Many of them want as much attention as possible. So they will do things to try and gain that attention, be it leveraging loopholes in the system to their advantage, spamming comments everywhere, asking their PSN friends to boost their levels.. whatever. All of that would continue to go on with or without LBPC. Realistically, most of what you see on the cool pages is completely unrelated to LBPC, has not been boosted by the site and is not even produced by people who have membership of the site. If LBPC is so powerful, why does it not use that power to crush the heretics who deign to publish on the servers without the fabled LBPC sticker? hint: because that power doesn't exist If people don't advertise themselves, exactly how do you think that they are supposed to get noticed at all? There are thousands upon thousands of levels being published and the practicality of the situation is that it's easy to get lost in the sheer volume. As Rogar says, you have cause and effect all kinds of mixed up. It would be interesting to see you produce some real evidence to actually support your theories that LBPC is choking the game, or maybe a bit of proper analysis, rather than just wild assertions with paper-thin reasoning behind them.

2011-06-03 18:07:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Am I against advertising altogether? No. I believe there are levels of good and bad in any sort of advertising. Now pay attention, I might lose you here: A good example of dishonorable advertising is when any person (or group) advertises to undermine - whether they realize it is undermining or not - any other (person or group). In this instance, LBPC and the fame club are undermining the community of non-promoting lbpers. Just because you do this advertising with out any malicious intentions towards all the non-promoting lbpers, doesn't make what you do right. Regardless of good or bad intentions, the effect has still occurred negatively on the LBP community as a whole. So what in your opinion would be an example of good advertising? I guess I am not understanding how we on an isolated site sharing levels with each other by posting them to make it easier for other members as well as guests to find them if they chose to, is bad.

2011-06-03 18:14:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Both methods are as if to say, "play my level, it deserves more plays that can be garnered from the methods that LBP have provided". Yup, that's exactly why we have sites like LBPC. And also exactly why you're argueing that your levels deserve more plays. The point is, LBP by itself is not equiped to get decent levels the plays they deserve. So people look outside the game for other tools. Or do you think every level deserves the same amount of plays, including all the empty and crappy ones? Am I against advertising altogether? No. I believe there are levels of good and bad in any sort of advertising. Now pay attention, I might lose you here: A good example of dishonorable advertising is when any person (or group) advertises to undermine - whether they realize it is undermining or not - any other (person or group). So what's the good way of advertising? By the way, you might want to watch your tone there, it's coming off as rather hostile.

2011-06-03 18:34:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Or do you think every level deserves the same amount of plays, including all the empty and crappy ones? That does sound pretty "fair" to me, othwise someone is making a judgement call on what should or shouldn't be having the same number of plays as the predetermined "fair" number. Actually, what should properly happen is that the game queues up levels for you, to ensure that each level gets exactly the correct number of plays - if you let players choose what levles they want to play, then they might not pick the right ones and that would be unfair on creators...

2011-06-03 18:39:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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For goodness sake, this is getting pathetic. Yes, i agree, republishing is bad. BUT, it's over now!!! You agree advertising is good, to an extent, yes. When i made my first level on LBP1, i had never heard of ANY LBPC, h4h or advertising techniques. My previous profile had been wiped and i had 2 friends ( bro and cousin). neither had LBP and STILL, i managed to recieve 3-400 plays and some nice reviews. What is your problem? People you accuse of selfishness have worked MUCH harder than you and spent hours on their levels and on LBPC, which lead them to EARN their crowns. what have you got against that? I'm not famous. Not in the slightest, and i don't care. In fact, it's great IMO. But putting hours of work into a masterpeice that you finally complete makes you feel PROUD. What is wrong in feeling proud in what you have created and sharing it with everyone? Now, as Ungreth said, you're making yourself VERY unwelcome. Thank you (:

2011-06-03 18:58:00 Author: TheLittleSoAndSo Posts: 181

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Rtm223, I dont have to do a case study to make that notion credible. I can simply use the logic that you applied yourself. ?On the other hand, with the republshing you are pretty much guaranteed to get plays, DUE TO MASSIVELY INCREASED VISABILITY? I don't need numbers to back up the obvious fact that this is just as true for advertising your levels here. Advertising them here will not get you the 1 million plays you could reach with republishing but it will do as following (as we learned from the previous posts from people who did so): It will bring you the 30-50 plays needed to rise up in the cool page. This enhances your visability further which will generate more plays. Where that leads you I don't know but it surely will give you the advantage over people who didn?t use this site or this tactics and who are condemned to remain invisable in the new levels section till they are dropped out of that. To me the relation between advertising and republishing is clearly visable. Jwwphotos tries to ridicule me for it. Maybe he thinks throwing dirt adds to his likeability and therefore he will rise in the clique, which is of course very helpful to what we are talking about here (SARCASM). However I?d like to talk about what the problem is in my opinion and point out another clear resemblance in the example given above: Isn?t using the 30-50 trick not about as shameful as republishing? It represses the creaters who don't know about this or who don't do this in the same way, making them look stupid for even trying to publish. Another similarity with republishing is what you mention here: it turned the whole community into a shouting match - to wit, whoever spent the most time republishing would have the highest visibility? If you exchange the word republishing with advertising it's exactly as true. So I stay with what I said in my previous post. @ Fang: If you thought my message was tedious you didn?t have to read it ok? You also didn?t have to write a big response and add questions. It shows that you?re full of bs so I don't care to answer your questions now. Better luck next time. I just read Creekeys latest post and I think it makes it unnecessary to defend the message any further . It should be clear by now and I am too not going to spend my time responding to the large volume of insults headed my way any more.

2011-06-03 19:05:00 Author: Unknown User

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I didnt say I was leaving the discussion. So you might wanna save your hateful comment and Icanhascheeseburger picture for later.

2011-06-03 19:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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Rtm223, I dont have to do a case study to make that notion credible. I can simply use the logic that you applied yourself. “On the other hand, with the republshing you are pretty much guaranteed to get plays, DUE TO MASSIVELY INCREASED VISABILITY” I don’t need numbers to back up the obvious fact that this is just as true for advertising your levels here. Advertising them here will not get you the 1 million plays you could reach with republishing but it will do as following (as we learned from the previous posts from people who did so): It will bring you the 30-50 plays needed to rise up in the cool page. This enhances your visability further which will generate more plays. Where that leads you I don’t know but it surely will give you the advantage over people who didn’t use this site or this tactics and who are condemned to remain invisable in the new levels section till they are dropped out of that. Yet, it still remains true that the majority of stuff on the cool pages is not stuff from LBPC and that even with a LBPC spotlight, it can still be very difficult for people to get anywhere near high visibility in-game and thus they don't get large numbers of plays... So regardless of any attempt at logical analysis, the evidence is plain to see: there are too many real-world examples that debunk your theory. If LBPC was wiped off the internet, the game would still be unfair and people would still struggle to get plays. It's as simple as that. The claimed choke hold that LBPC has on the game is 100% imaginary. Sorry if me pointing out how very, very wrong you are is considered an insult, but that's the way it is.

2011-06-03 19:21:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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To me the relation between advertising and republishing is clearly visable. Jwwphotos tries to ridicule me for it. Maybe he thinks throwing dirt adds to his likeability and therefore he will rise in the clique, which is of course very helpful to what we are talking about here (SARCASM). If it is so clear than explain it. Republishing doesn't do anything anymore. ..or are you mean blowing away a level and starting over? Now that is something I don't like and agree with you on 100 percent. I just don't see how posting in the Level Showcase here on LBPC is evil. Even Creekey said some advertising can be good and am awaiting an answer. I'm seriously trying to understand as I am fascinated on why you think posting a level in the showcase is evil. I've shared a bunch of info on how to get feedback in this thread to others.. where am I throwing dirt?? As far as rising in the clique? ..now that is really hysterical. Quite a few that you might consider in whatever clique don't even like me that much. Discussing this with you or Creeky out isn't going to change their mind about me or the others that might like me. ...for example, none of this is changing your mind about me right? I am simply fascinated by your logic and reasoning on how we are screwing up LBP.

2011-06-03 19:28:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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I'm willing to bet everything I own that the guys at MM wouldn't agree with you there - they love the fact that the community is so passionate and go out of our way to promote their game in all the many ways that we do, be it fansites, the fan art that lines their office walls, any of that metagame stuff is things that they like. You might not like it, but don't project your own personal dislike onto MM and pretend that it in some way makes you correct. Oh, you really got me there. It wasn't a big enough clue for me that MM wouldn't agree when they put the "Newest Level" search filter so out of the way that no one notices it. Thanks for enlightening me. So what in your opinion would be an example of good advertising? I guess I am not understanding how we on an isolated site sharing levels with each other by posting them to make it easier for other members as well as guests to find them if they chose to, is bad. An example of good advertising would be for instance a commercial who advertises for a local animal shelter, letting the people know that lots of cute animals need a home. Another instance of good advertising would be an magazine ad that speaks on the benefits of buying locally to support the local economy. Yet another instance would be a billboard on the side of the road that encourages people to not litter. Most good advertising comes from people who are aren't in it for personal gain, but for the better of the population, the earth, etc. I don't agree with the advertising methods of most big corporations like McDonalds either. The way they conduct business has the same damaging effects on a community as LBPC and the fame team have on the entire LBP community. McDonalds advertising tactics or any other large corporation take away profits from other businesses simply because for example, their CEO wants 3 Jaguars instead of 2. Just like anadvertising creator here takes plays away from other levels because he wants 300 plays instead of 200. I'd rather see McDonalds and like corporations advertise by helping out local communities, not just helping out their corporation. I know big corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart can't be eliminated. But they could adjust their business ethics to help out the community instead of starving local econmies and other privately owned businesses out of money. The reason why corporations like Wal-Mart don't help communities is because they don't recycle the same amount of money they earn from that city or town back into that town or city's economy. So slowly, that drives private business owners to close shops. They then become unemployed and either relocate or must work for Wal-Mart or another corporation getting paid minimum wage. Their minimum wage paycheck barely covers rent. They have no money to put into the local enconomy and are forced to give their money back to Wal-Mart because their produce is the only produce they can afford. Its a cycle. But I digress. LBPC is like Wal-Mart or McDonalds in this instance. LBPC's ethics starve the LBP gaming community by promoting only people who advertise. Eventually, people are going to realize they are getting no plays and move on. Just like the private business owner. Then the game will be like a starved economy... no one will be left around except the LBPCers. Advertising will always be around. Use it honorably instead of selfishly. Also, Jww, you said this Not sure if there is one, but maybe a search for the least plays might be helpful to add to Mm's search list. Or levels under 50 plays? That might be helpful for those that want to be Good Samaritans and help others out. I think there is actually a pin for playing so many levels when there is only like 5 or 10 plays. Yeah yeah that would be awesome except there would be no need for something like that because all "Newest Levels" in the section have less than 50 plays. Obviously you haven't browsed through that section because you would see how sad it is indeed (you suggested calling it "I haz a sad", later). Most those levels have zero plays. 4 out of every ten might have 4 to 8 plays. One out of every 20 might have above 25 plays.

2011-06-03 19:31:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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@rtm, I do not consider that an insult. I consider it a good arguement. Idon't have statistics about how much lbpc represses players that don't use it. But it's clear as well that it's influence isnt zero. Because if it was then nobody would advertise their levels here and of course it has and had a very large influence, pls don't try to deny that cause it will only be such a waste of time. I'm not dreaming about a perfect place where everyone gets equal plays as such stated to ridicule the message either. What I'd like is, as I said before, a little more spotlight on the players that don't advertise their levels.

2011-06-03 19:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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Advertising will always be around. Use it honorably instead of selfishly. Like, maybe, we could have a system where there was a place where anyone who wanted to could advertise, on equal terms, for free and when they did so, the people who provided that advertising service specifically put in place a system whereby if you were advertising, your adverts would actually be more successful if you went out of your way to help out other people - to advise them, share knowledge and understanding and to build a community based around getting involved, on mutual growth and putting in at least as much as you get back, if not more. That would be pretty honourable, right? If people were actually helping out strangers and working together towards being better, individually and as a group. You could almost say that that is almost the same thing as a community, right there. People getting involved with each other in small groups because thinking on a global scale (i.e. in game, if metaphors are hard) is too difficult. At the end of the day, anyone who isn't a complete jerk is welcome here, to be involved in this subcommunity and we welcome both veterans and n00bs alike, so just take one second to tell me what the hell is "ethically" wrong about that? If anything, your "local communities" argument does more to support the existence of a community of 1000ish people than it does to criticize. People form small communities because otherwise the world would be a crazy crazy nonsensical mess - which is exactly what you get in the online game - you'll struggle to grow as a creator, just publishing stuff and seeing what happens - it's in the forums that you can interact with the community, or the sub-community, in a meaningful way. And that is true of here or any other forum. You may not like that, but claiming there is some ethical basis for your dislike of forums is poorly thought through. @caskstrength: so exactly how do you give that attention to those people who aren't getting it. Because we both know for a fact that there are a crapload of them. Arguably there are too many of them to find significant playcounts for. And if they aren't willing to do anything about that, either because they feel like they have some moral code stopping them, or are too lazy to type a couple of search terms into google, how exactly do you convince players to play their levels?

2011-06-03 19:41:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Not everything will get noticed unfortuntely, even if they are great levels. With levels being published at so quick of a rate that you could go offline for 5 minutes, return, and see 1,000 levels have been published. So, many things are drowned in the current. Advertisement, getting to know the community, etc. Don't leave just because your level isn't getting notoriaty. Just keep trying.

2011-06-03 19:54:00 Author: Maxi Posts: 1176

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@ rtm: for as far as I can see the lbpc you describe is suffocating the creaters who don't want to advertise. Who just want to game and not advertise. Why care about them? Because there are wonderful levels/movies/and all other sorts of creations being thrown away, being robbed of comments and plays, leading the creaters, who I admire, to disappear with hardly any level of recognition or gratitude at all. Why I care about that? Idk, I can just imagine it must feel disappointing and to me LBP wouldnt be thesame without them and wouldnt be fun if it's a snakepit filled with greedy people. Therefore I'd like more light directed their way. Edit: I'd like to contribute my ideas on how to do so after the thread shifted more in that direction. I don't imagine MM will take them seriously or even see them but I do believe that awareness of the problem alone could result in changes.

2011-06-03 20:00:00 Author: Unknown User

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I have never republished them except for rare post-edit circumstances, and I have never promoted them here or on any other website. No but I clearly remember coming here once and seeing your name in BIG HUGE letters, "UNGRETH". I don't pay attention to spotlights or crowns or whatever, but clearly, this website promoted you. Maybe you didn't promote youself but we are also saying that LBPC is apart of this, not just the individual creators. So going with your theory that creators wouldn't get more than 10 plays without republishing and self promotion, how do you figure I got that many plays? Funny you ask because. you probably got your plays from whatever reason LBPC had your name posted extravagantly on this site. So why don't you giddy up that high horse you're on and get the hell out of LBPC, because I think I speak for the majority when I say that you have just made yourself very unwelcome here. Hmm the only person I sense on a high horse here is you. "I speak for the majority" if thats not a high horse than what is? When i made my first level on LBP1, i had never heard of ANY LBPC, h4h or advertising techniques. My previous profile had been wiped and i had 2 friends ( bro and cousin). neither had LBP and STILL, i managed to recieve 3-400 plays and some nice reviews. Yes this is exactly what would have happened because like I've been saying: It was before LBPC and other websites existed and before the misused forms of "sharing" were discovered. Thanks you are actually helping my point. Because this type of thing doesn't happen anymore. You would be lucky to get 3 plays if you did it with no rubbish techniques. What is your problem? What is yours? Something must have made you so flustered that you get angrily argue towards my opinion's benefit. Now, as Ungreth said, you're making yourself VERY unwelcome. And I think you are making a mockery out of yourself. If it is so clear than explain it. I did. I just don't see how posting in the Level Showcase here on LBPC is evil. Did you even read my first post ofthe day? I'm seriously trying to understand as I am fascinated on why you think posting a level in the showcase is evil. You really just don't get it. I am simply fascinated by your logic and reasoning on how we are screwing up LBP. I suggest you reread my first post of the day. There is a place where it is explained perfectly. I'm sorry if I am being a little redundant here but it's also a little redundant that over and over, people don't want to understand what I'm saying.

2011-06-03 20:12:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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As far as I can see the lbpc you describe is suffocating the creaters who don't want to advertise. Ok, this is the root of the argument, yes? It's LBPC who is causing the problem, since those who don't want to advertise their levels are losing the shouting match. Now, ignoring the obvious fallacy in this argument, present me with a solution. You want LBPC to shut down? You want LBPC to stop allowing members to post their levels? I don't understand, but clearly if there is a problem that exists, you must want a solution. Give me one. Give me any solution. If you just want to complain, that's fine, but the ends justify the means, and I really can't envision your ends. Now, let's assume that the problem is with LBPC. Advertising outside the game is a problem, and it should be addressed by eliminating the source of the problem. So, let's shut down LBPC. While we're at it, let's address the other problems: http://littlebigland.com/ http://www.littlebignetwork.com/ http://www.littlebigplanetarium.com/ http://www.grabswitch.com/ http://www.lbp2blog.com/ http://lbp-forum.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/LBPmedia http://littlebigbuilders.webstarts.com/index.html http://littlebigcorner.webs.com/ http://lbdreamworld.com/ http://littlebigplanetfanatic.prophpbb.com/ http://www.littlebigplanetgalaxy.com/ http://littlebigrussia.ru/ http://www.plagachef.com/littlebigplanet/ http://www.rocketcheetah.com/ http://www.thesackbot.freeforums.org/ http://www.youtube.com/ http://www.twitter.com/ http://www.facebook.com/ http://www.lbp.me/ Do you want to start contacting these guys while I look for more? I mean, I'm sure there are hundreds more, but I have to run to dinner soon, so I had to cull my search. Hell, I'm sure more are added every week, because these sites are the result of out-of-game advertising, not the source. Look, if you want to be all high and mighty, thinking that you deserve results from inaction, that's fine, but I'm confused. If you don't want to go through the trouble of sharing your levels, why spend all the time condemning everyone else? If you're just going to waste time, why not do it in a more productive way? And for the love of [insert deity], stop trying to use republishing as evidence! It doesn't even work anymore. I was a creator who grudgingly republished back in LBP1. I did it for the first 24 hours to get a handful of starter plays, and use the merit of my work to keep up steam. I never saw the front page of Cool Pages, and that's fine. Hilariously, this has nothing to with LBPC, though. As soon as you start to lump people like Stephanie_Ravens, Lemon_and_Gravy, or Bender_82 into the same group as the rest of us, you are missing the bigger picture. All of those "creators" have been cast out by fansites for truly ruining the LBP1 sharing experience. Thankfully, this is less of an issue in LBP2. So again, what's your solution? Complaining isn't a solution.

2011-06-03 20:30:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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"Play, Create, Share" Let's talk about what MM is saying with the last word, "Share". Obviously these words are describing the game, and what can be achieved within the game by the tools they have given us. They aren't describing what can be done on LBPC, any other website, or dishonest tactic. That would be true, except for the tools outside the game that they've actually given us, such as their own official forums where creators regularly promote, advertise and yes, even share their levels. Or how about LBP.me which I keep pointing out to you in my replies but you conveniently ignore? And what say you about the contests such as the LBContraption series? Those reward the winner with an in-game prize but are held, judged, and reviewed completely outside the game itself. I see many people guilty of manipulating the word "share" around to suit your own selfish personal gain. Well, if "Share" means "advertising", then it must mean "republishing" too. No, share means this: a portion belonging to, due to, or contributed by an individual or group. So really, these terms are synonymous, if you are using "Share" out of the context in which MM is using to describe their game. Actually, the Play/Create/Share is a trademark of Sony Entertainment, not Media Molecule. LittleBigPlanet is but one game (such as ModNationRacers, or Infamous 2) that promotes this type of user-created content. ...If you still don't understand I will break it down for you. Republishing a level takes plays away from other levels by grabbing peoples attention over and over. This technique no longer works. Advertising a level takes plays away from other levels by grabbing peoples attention over and over. No, they grab plays by appealing to the player in any number of online formats and in the game. If your level doesn't appeal to the average player, you're simply not going to get that many plays. This becomes even more true if they're never exposed to it in the first place. Both methods are as if to say, "play my level, I think it deserves more plays that can be garnered from the methods that LBP have provided, because I've found that publishing my level and staring at the screen hasn't been working so well". Fixed that for you. You're putting your levels ahead of everyone elses in both instances. Many of you have said that all you really need is a crafty level badge, neat title, and well-wirtten description. You were mistaken, you should have said, "All that you should need is a crafty level badge, neat title, and well-written description, but thats not how it works." You have proved that it doesn't work by defending advertising so vehemently. I don't recall reading anywhere that that's all you need. Unfortunately, I could publish an empty level with no problems, complete with the most amazing badge, title and description. It's not going to get many plays on its own. The advice you are referring to is how to improve your chances of receiving additional plays, not "all you need to do." Am I against advertising altogether? No. I believe there are levels of good and bad in any sort of advertising. Now pay attention, I might lose you here: A good example of dishonorable advertising is when any person (or group) advertises to undermine - whether they realize it is undermining or not - any other (person or group). In this instance, LBPC and the fame club are undermining the community of non-promoting lbpers. Just because you do this advertising with out any malicious intentions towards all the non-promoting lbpers, doesn't make what you do right. Regardless of good or bad intentions, the effect has still occurred negatively on the LBP community as a whole. I hope I made it easier - by breaking up my sentences - for you guys to quote what I've said in order to sling more insults at me. Also, I am more than willing to provide you with other instances in which advertising can be done with the best of intentions but cause the worst of effects. There's a fine line between disagreeing with you and "slinging insults." Oh, you really got me there. It wasn't a big enough clue for me that MM wouldn't agree when they put the "Newest Level" search filter so out of the way that no one notices it. Thanks for enlightening me. Stop. I've posted the front page of LBP.me TWICE now, yet you keep ignoring this point. Newest levels are right there next to MM Picks and "trending" levels. They're also very easy to access through the in-game search engine. Regardless, most people don't bother using the search features and go straight to the Cool Levels anyways, so your argument is completely misdirected in addition to being fundamentally flawed. An example of good advertising would be for instance a commercial who advertises for a local animal shelter, letting the people know that lots of cute animals need a home. But wouldn't that leave out all the other animal shelters? What about the little girl down the street whose cat just had kittens and doesn't know what to do? Now she's going to have to use her allowance to pay for all the cat food because of one shelter's arrogance. Another instance of good advertising would be an magazine ad that speaks on the benefits of buying locally to support the local economy.And those poor multi-national corporations? How are they supposed to compete? Thanks to this campaign, the board has been fired, stock-holders have bailed and the company is close to collapse! Yet another instance would be a billboard on the side of the road that encourages people to not litter.And now that poor highway worker is out of a job because of that horrible advertisement! Shame on them! You see how easy it is to take something that you view as positive, and switch it around to a negative? Of course you do. Unfortunately, what you are trying to argue is as ludicrous as the claims above. Most good advertising comes from people who are aren't in it for personal gain, but for the better of the population, the earth, etc. I don't agree with the advertising methods of most big corporations like McDonalds either. The way they conduct business has the same damaging effects on a community as LBPC and the fame team have on the entire LBP community. McDonalds advertising tactics or any other large corporation take away profits from other businesses simply because for example, their CEO wants 3 Jaguars instead of 2. Just like anadvertising creator here takes plays away from other levels because he wants 300 plays instead of 200. I'd rather see McDonalds and like corporations advertise by helping out local communities, not just helping out their corporation. If only they had some sort of charity (http://rmhc.org/) to help those less fortunate... The flaw in your argument is that plays are not equivalent to currency. They don't allow you to purchase anything, nor are they exchanged as a sort of commodity. So, in that respect, your analogy comparing a major corporation to a creator in LBP is fundamentally flawed. I know big corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart can't be eliminated. But they could adjust their business ethics to help out the community instead of starving local econmies and other privately owned businesses out of money. The reason why corporations like Wal-Mart don't help communities is because they don't recycle the same amount of money they earn from that city or town back into that town or city's economy. So slowly, that drives private business owners to close shops. They then become unemployed and either relocate or must work for Wal-Mart or another corporation getting paid minimum wage. Their minimum wage paycheck barely covers rent. They have no money to put into the local enconomy and are forced to give their money back to Wal-Mart because their produce is the only produce they can afford. LBP compared to globalization and multi-national commercialization? I don't care who you are, but there's not a single soul in LBP that holds even 1 millionth the power of one of Walmart's chief executives. It's just a game, for cryin' out loud. Its a cycle. But I digress. LBPC is like Wal-Mart or McDonalds in this instance. LBPC's ethics starve the LBP gaming community by promoting only people who advertise. Eventually, people are going to realize they are getting no plays and move on. Just like the private business owner. Then the game will be like a starved economy... no one will be left around except the LBPCers. Advertising will always be around. Use it honorably instead of selfishly. Problem is, all advertising in LBP is inherently selfish, unless you spend all of your time solely promoting other people's levels.

2011-06-03 20:36:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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At the end of the day, anyone who isn't a complete jerk is welcome here, to be involved in this subcommunity and we welcome both veterans and n00bs alike, so just take one second to tell me what the hell is "ethically" wrong about that? If anything, your "local communities" argument does more to support the existence of a community of 1000ish people than it does to criticize. People form small communities because otherwise the world would be a crazy crazy nonsensical mess - which is exactly what you get in the online game - you'll struggle to grow as a creator, just publishing stuff and seeing what happens - it's in the forums that you can interact with the community, or the sub-community, in a meaningful way. And that is true of here or any other forum. You may not like that, but claiming there is some ethical basis for your dislike of forums is poorly thought through. You thought I was criticizing communities? Oh, how wrong you are. Perhaps you should go back and read my post about it again. I was criticizing organizations or corporations who take away from communities (repress) for their own personal gain. In this instance of repression of a community: LBPC is the organization. The LBP gaming community (yes every single person) is the community. LBPC takes away from the community of lbpers who don't advertise. How? Because LBPC promotes people who come on this website asking for plays by simply existing or having "spotlights". For the creator who doesn't advertise, it takes away plays from their levels because LBPC is saying (not literally saying those words, but you get the jist), "Hey these levels are better than everyone else's, we deserve your plays more than anyone else because we work hard (i.e. self-promote)." This negatively effects the creator who doesn't self promote (because he no longer gets anymore plays... everyone is playing the levels they were "told" - or influenced, or encouraged - to play) and therfore he leaves the game. Times this creator by 100. Suddenly thats a lot of people who are leaving because they don't get any plays any more. Thus, it leads to the overall repression of the entire LBP gaming community. Even for the self-promoters.

2011-06-03 20:39:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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You thought I was criticizing communities? Oh, how wrong you are. Perhaps you should go back and read my post about it again. I was criticizing organizations or corporations who take away from communities (repress) for their own personal gain. I think you're missing the fact that it's the community who gains. LBPC is offering a service, not unlike what... https://github.com/ does for code hosting and collaboration. http://www.trillian.im/ does for instant messaging. http://www.skype.com/ (http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/home) does voice and text chatting. http://www.monster.com/ does for job-hunting. http://www.match.com/ does for dating. The point is, there is demand for these things. They offer a service to whoever wants to use it, and you could argue that this merit doesn't go away because those who offer the services make money. That said, it's not a fair comparison because the people at LBPC don't even make money. Generally they spend money, and the only compensation is feeling good about it.

2011-06-03 20:49:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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That would be true, except for the tools outside the game that they've actually given us, such as their own official forums where creators regularly promote, advertise and yes, even share their levels. Or how about LBP.me which I keep pointing out to you in my replies but you conveniently ignore? And what say you about the contests such as the LBContraption series? Those reward the winner with an in-game prize but are held, judged, and reviewed completely outside the game itself. No, share means this: a portion belonging to, due to, or contributed by an individual or group. Actually, the Play/Create/Share is a trademark of Sony Entertainment, not Media Molecule. LittleBigPlanet is but one game (such as ModNationRacers, or Infamous 2) that promote this type of user-created content. This technique no longer works. No, they grab plays by appealing to the player in any number of online formats and in the game. If your level doesn't appeal to the average player, you're simply not going to get that many plays. This becomes even more true if they're never exposed to it in the first place. Fixed that for you. I don't recall reading anywhere that that's all you need. Unfortunately, I could publish an empty level with no problems, complete with the most amazing badge, title and description. It's not going to get many plays on its own. The advice you are referring to is how to improve your chances of receiving additional plays, not "all you need to do." So, you're basically saying that the teacher should call on you without you having to raise your hands like the rest of the class? There's about a hundred other analogies that would fit. There's a fine line between disagreeing with you and "slinging insults." Stop. I've posted the front page of LBP.me TWICE now, yet you keep ignoring this point. Newest levels are right there next to MM Picks and "trending" levels. They're also very easy to access through the in-game search engine. Regardless, most people don't bother using the search features and go straight to the Cool Levels anyways, so your argument is completely misdirected in addition to being fundamentally flawed. But wouldn't that leave out all the other animal shelters? What about the little girl down the street whose cat just had kittens and doesn't know what to do? Now she's going to have to use her allowance to pay for all the cat food because of one shelter's arrogance. And those poor multi-national corporations? How are they supposed to compete? Thanks to this campaign, the board has been fired, stock-holders have bailed and the company is close to collapse! And now that poor highway worker is out of a job because of that horrible advertisement! Shame on them! You see how easy it is to take something that you view as positive, and switch it around to a negative? Of course you do. Unfortunately, what you are trying to argue is as ludicrous as the claims above. If only they had some sort of charity (http://rmhc.org/) to help those less fortunate... The flaw in your argument is that plays are not equivalent to currency. They don't allow you to purchase anything, nor are they exchanged as a sort of commodity. So, in that respect, your analogy comparing a major corporation to a creator in LBP is fundamentally flawed. LBP compared to globalization and multi-nation commercialization? I don't care who you are, but nobody in LBP holds 1 millionth of the power of one of Walmart's cheif executives. Problem is, all advertising is inherently selfish, unless you spend all of your time solely promoting other people's levels. Gee, Schmo thanks for breaking it down for me. The fact that your message would take too long to read has nothing to do with the fact that I am just not interested in anything you say.

2011-06-03 21:03:00 Author: Creekey Posts: 116

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This thread has basically turned into a heated argument rather than a friendly conversation.

2011-06-03 21:07:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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Gee, Schmo thanks for breaking it down for me. The fact that your message would take too long to read has nothing to do with the fact that I am just not interested in anything you say. Stay classy, bud.

2011-06-03 21:22:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Dear Creekey, what is the point of littlebigplanet? Answer: Fun. By posting here not only do you fulfill the final part in the Play, Create, Share experience, you alzo add to the fun factor of littlebigplanet. You call posting a level here shameful advertising, but you're very wrong. People can see your level here, play it, and leave some feedback. Is this sinful?? Seems like you think that... Also, when you post a level here it is automatically eligible for being spotlighted. Now being a member of the spotlight crew, I'd like to tell you why I and many others love it. I love being part of it because I'm able to play peoples levels, then share the great ones to other people for maximum fun, which (may I remind you) is the point of littlebigplanet. One more thing, if you're so against lbpc and their so called "evil schemes of advertising" then why the hall are you a member here??? <3, Valmassoi

2011-06-03 22:07:00 Author: anoken Posts: 1654

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Creekey, I'm not going to attempt to rationalise with you any further at this point. Instead, I'm gonna give you a simple fact that you might be able to understand. F4F, showcase threads and community spotlights are how we do things here at LBPC. Nobody is going to redecorate the living room because you don't like the wallpaper, and if you don't like the family who live here then don't invite yourself into our home. If you still don't get the message then I'm willing to risk an infraction to rephrase it in less polite terms for you.

2011-06-03 22:08:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Gee, Schmo thanks for breaking it down for me. The fact that your message would take too long to read has nothing to do with the fact that I am just not interested in anything you say. Then this discussion is over. Locking LBPC members have shown a lot of restraint, courtesy and some downright heroic patience in this thread. Thank you to everyone for your well reasoned and thoughtful posts. These are the folks who make me proud to still call LBPC home.

2011-06-03 22:16:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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